Reason N+1 to NOT own a Kindle -- DRM

[DMac]

Outlawed by Amazon DRM (http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/outlawed-by-amazon-drm/)


22.10.12 • 158 kommentarer

A couple of days a go, my friend Linn sent me an e-mail, being very frustrated: Amazon just closed her account and wiped her Kindle. Without notice. Without explanation. This is DRM at it’s worst.

Linn travels a lot and therefore has, or should I say had, a lot of books on her Kindle, purchased from Amazon. Suddenly, her Kindle was wiped and her account was closed. Being convinced that something wrong had happened, she sent an e-mail to Amazon, asking for help. This was the answer:

Dear Linn [last name],

My name is Michael Murphy and I represent Executive Customer Relations within Amazon.co.uk. One of our mandates is to address the most acute account and order problems, and in this capacity your account and orders have been brought to my attention.

We have found your account is directly related to another which has been previously closed for abuse of our policies. As such, your Amazon.co.uk account has been closed and any open orders have been cancelled.

Per our Conditions of Use which state in part: Amazon.co.uk and its affiliates reserve the right to refuse service, terminate accounts, remove or edit content, or cancel orders at their sole discretion.

Please know that any attempt to open a new account will meet with the same action.

You may direct any questions to me at resolution-uk@amazon.co.uk.

Thank you for your attention to this email.

Regards

Michael Murphy
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.uk

This answer was very confusing. Which account was he talking about? She had never had any other accounts at Amazon.

So, she replied to Murphy’s e-mail:

Dear Michael Murphy,

I am very surprised to read your email. What do you mean by “directly related to another which has been previously closed for abuse of our policies”. I can only remember ever having this one account, and I use it quite regularly to buy books for my Kindle, as you probably can see by my purchase history. How can there suddenly be a problem now? I use amazon.com and not co.uk for my Kindle, does that make any difference?

I sincerely hope you can help me solve this matter, because I would very much like to have my account reopened. And please let me know if there is any action I can take to help.

Best regards,
Linn [last name]
[Linn's phone number]

The answer provided no progress:

Dear Linn [last name],

As previously advised, your Amazon.co.uk account has been closed, as it has come to our attention that this account is related to a previously blocked account. While we are unable to provide detailed information on how we link related accounts, please know that we have reviewed your account on the basis of the information provided and regret to inform you that it will not be reopened.

Please understand that the closure of an account is a permanent action. Any subsequent accounts that are opened will be closed as well. Thank you for your understanding with our decision.

I appreciate this is not the outcome you hoped for and apologise for any disappointment this may cause.

Regards,

Michael Murphy
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.uk

Not getting an answer to why the account was closed, she sent another e-mail:

Dear Michael Murphy,

Is it correct that you cannot give me any information about
1. How my account is linked to the blocked account
2. The name/id of the related blocked account
3. What policy that was violated

I have no knowledge about any other account that could be related to mine, and cannot understand how I could have violated your policies in any way.

Br,
Linn [last name]

Unfortunately, the answer was the same:

Dear Linn [last name],

We regret that we have not been able to address your concerns to your satisfaction. Unfortunately, we will not be able to offer any additional insight or action on these matters.

We wish you luck in locating a retailer better able to meet your needs and will not be able to offer any additional insight or action on these matters.

Thank you for your attention to this email.

Regards

Michael Murphy
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.uk

Did she violate any terms? Amazon will not tell. Perhaps by accident? Amazon does not care. The conclusion so far is clear: Amazon closed her account, wiped her Kindle and refuses to tell her why. End of discussion.
The worst of DRM

As a long-term writer about technology, DRM, privacy and user rights, this Amazon example shows the very worst of DRM. If the retailer, in this case Amazon, thinks you’re a crook, they will throw you out and take away everything that you bought. And if you disagree, you’re totally outlawed. Not only is your account closed, all your books that you paid for are gone. With DRM, you don’t buy and own books, you merely rent them for as long as the retailer finds it convenient.
Now what?

Linn lives in Norway, far away from Amazon’s jurisdiction. How will she ever find the means to get her books back? By suing a large corporation half-way round the earth?

Linn is outlawed by Amazon.

[Ponce]

I am now confused, more than usual......I though that my books in my Kindle was in my Kindle and not being held by Amazon......so, what is going on?.........all my downloaded books are for free and offered by Amazon, I only use my Kindle to read my free books and nothing more........so, what is she talking about?

[Dogman]

They unlocked her account and she can get to her books.

On going thing right now, That is why anyone owning a kindle OR any other e-book reader is a fool not to copy their books to hard disk and before that run the books through caliber with the "Magic" plugin and strip the DMR out of the books.

Calibre website.

http://calibre-ebook.com/


And the "Magic Plugin" and the how to's!

http://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/



Two different threads on my book forum, cussing and discussing the topic.

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194580

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194584

[JohnQPublic]

I'm thinking Android tablets may be the best at this point. I ordered a Samsung Note 10.1" using some airline miles I had. I'll see if it is any good. Looks good based on comparisons (http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-101-WiFi-Quad-Core-Tablet-Review/?page=1).

[chad]

I am now confused, more than usual......I though that my books in my Kindle was in my Kindle and not being held by Amazon......so, what is going on?.........all my downloaded books are for free and offered by Amazon, I only use my Kindle to read my free books and nothing more........so, what is she talking about?

if and when you synch, they have the ability to access the device and delete everything off of it if they feel like it.

[DMac]

if and when you synch, they have the ability to access the device and delete everything off of it if they feel like it.

Exactly. If you don't hold it.. and all that!

[DMac]

Along these lines, what is to stop some enterprising hacker with a grudge against Amazon from being able to do this removal remotely?

Or if the reptilian overlords (/sarc) decide owning books with banned material won't issue an order to remove any content deemed provocative or illegal from your device?

Physical possession trumps all. Information is the most valuable of all commodities.

[Dogman]

Along these lines, what is to stop some enterprising hacker with a grudge against Amazon from being able to do this removal remotely?

Or if the reptilian overlords (/sarc) decide owning books with banned material won't issue an order to remove any content deemed provocative or illegal from your device?

Physical possession trumps all. Information is the most valuable of all commodities. That is a very good question, from what I understand amazon has some very high powered servers and it may take some skill to hack them?

That is why multiple copy's of electronic media on different drives is so important.

But the thing is if the dmr is removed they can not lock it, and the book can be read on any reader that uses the format.

[chad]

That is a very good question, from what I understand amazon has some very high powered servers and it may take some skill to hack them?

That is why multiple copy's of electronic media on different drives is so important.

But the thing is if the dmr is removed they can not lock it, and the book can be read on any reader that uses the format.

amazons cloud servers failed just yesterday. a large chunk of the net disappeared.

[Dogman]

amazons cloud servers failed just yesterday. a large chunk of the net disappeared. That is one reason to copy the books on your reader to your hard drive/drives. If you have multiple readers it is even more important to do so. Plus stripping the DMR.

I trust no storage on the web, from a security and access viewpoint, It is nice to have but I trust my hard drive(s) more!

[chad]

i have seen the new drm that is coming.

let's say you buy a book and save a copy of it on your hard drive of a computer that isn't even connected to the net. "no problem," you say. "if my device is ever erased by amazon, etc." i will just reload it from the offline computer. then i will read it, and who cares if it gets erased again next time i connect to the net? i will just reload it forever and ever!"

oh wait. what if the new drm includes silent software on your device that reads the contents of whatever drive it is synched with and can tell what a book is by the binary data- regardless of being "locked" by old drm. well, then it could just delete data off anything you hook it up to as a "copyright infringment, breach of terms, etc," couldn't it?

well that sucks.

[Dogman]

i have seen the new drm that is coming.

let's say you buy a book and save a copy of it on your hard drive of a computer that isn't even connected to the net. "no problem," you say. "if my device is ever erased by amazon, etc." i will just reload it from the offline computer. then i will read it, and who cares if it gets erased again next time i connect to the net? i will just reload it forever and ever!"

oh wait. what if the new drm includes silent software on your device that reads the contents of whatever drive it is synched with and can tell what a book is by the binary data- regardless of being "locked" by old drm. well, then it could just delete data off anything you hook it up to as a "copyright infringment, breach of terms, etc," couldn't it?

well that sucks.

Source? Haven't heard that one, and the forum I hang out on I have seen no discussions about it.

[sirgonzo420]

meanwhile... SirGonzo420 buys up used books (ya know, those things with paper where the screen should be, ;) ) for pennies on the dollar.

good old fashioned EMP-proof paper!


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/shredinator/paper.jpg

[chad]

Source? Haven't heard that one, and the forum I hang out on I have seen no discussions about it.

i don't have an online source, i saw it at a company called *********** in madison, wi. they make medical apps, medical ebooks, and medical software. i saw this drm demonstrated in regards to the ebooks they make for hospitals. it is designed not for nefarious purposes, but to make sure the latest copy of whatever they are publishing is always the most up-to-date version (for liability reasons, since it's medical information). it reads drives, finds old copies of itself, and erases them if necessary. i don't know if they developed it or if it's some industry thing, but i imagine it will be popping up everywhere soon. pm me if you want the name of the company, i don't want it associated with this forum & thread- don't want to give J6P a potential headache if someone there reads this.

[Dogman]

meanwhile... SirGonzo420 buys up used books (ya know, those things with paper where the screen should be, ;) ) for pennies on the dollar.

good old fashioned EMP-proof paper!


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/shredinator/paper.jpg

That You?


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[chad]

see, this is why the internet is getting creepy. i was just researching what i saw to see if the tech is already out there under some name, and this thread has already been archived by google.

[Dogman]

see, this is why the internet is getting creepy. i was just researching what i saw to see if the tech is already out there under some name, and this thread has already been archived by google. That's because of all of our "guest" web bots.

[Neuro]

Use Internet/electronic media to research info, use paper to store it. Future censorship will not be through book burning, or arrests of ownership of forbidden paper books. It will take far too long time to search a physical library vs a virtual library. As gonzo said above get used paper books for Pennies to the dollar!

[Dogman]

Use Internet/electronic media to research info, use paper to store it. Future censorship will not be through book burning, or arrests of ownership of forbidden paper books. It will take far too long time to search a physical library vs a virtual library. As gonzo said above get used paper books for Pennies to the dollar!

You are right, they will just burn your library down to the ground.

Why bother to search?

Edit: A huge library in digital form, can fit into a very tiny space. Much more easy to hide, than pbooks!

[gunDriller]

the "lizard" metaphor & the reference to UFO's that it invokes is interesting - but is also a side issue that can detract from more immediate Prep stuff.


BUT, in this case, the Lizard Brain metaphor sounds perfectly apropos.

Many, perhaps most, organizations are so procedure bound and profit oriented that you need an attorney to deal with them.

Or, you need some major "Organization Fu" to do an end run around middle management, e.g. getting the home phone of the head guy and calling them at home on a Sunday - from an anonymous phone.

[JohnQPublic]

Paper books are good, too, but it is hard to run far with many of them. If you are fortunate to have a tablet (or portable hard drive) in good shape, you can at least have your materials for as long as you can maintain them.

[Ponce]

Jesus H Ponce.........looks to me that even my tp is in danger......that would mean WARRRRRRRRRRR.

So, the best thing that I could do is to open my link only when downlowding a book, right?

[Half Sense]

Keep a copy on "read-only" media, like a CD-R or DVD-R. Or keep it in an encrypted volume that you only mount when you need to copy something. TrueCrypt is good for this.

[madfranks]

As far as I know, Amazon can't just "wipe" a kindle clean. They can delete e-books licensed from them, but they can't delete personal documents. The solution is to hold DRM free e-books and documents on your kindle. Just run all your books through a DRM removal tool and/or copy past into a word document and load the document into the kindle.

[Dogman]

As far as I know, Amazon can't just "wipe" a kindle clean. They can delete e-books licensed from them, but they can't delete personal documents. The solution is to hold DRM free e-books and documents on your kindle. Just run all your books through a DRM removal tool and/or copy past into a word document and load the document into the kindle. Agreed!

The links I posted in this thread have those tools which are the best there is, to do the job.

Once the DRM is gone, there is no reference or links to any seller in the book and the copy looks legit and there is no evidence of where you got the book.