Why Jews cannot accept the New Testament

[BarnkleBob]

From an Alchemical perspective it matters not whether observations are manifested physical or meta-physical reality... both are creations of the Supreme Being... hence descriptions of various attributes of the creation!

[Horn]

The books of the bible are not the complete works of God. Nor are they separate entities coming from two different sources. They are one Word and one message.


593,493 in the Old Testament and 181,253 in the New Testament giving 774,746 words. Bible was written over a period of at least 1,600 years,


So much for the abridged version.

[joboo]

So much for the abridged version. 1600 years, yeouch. God is like that parent that wants to talk on the phone for hours, when all you were hoping for was a 5 min quickie to say what's up. Dammit god you're rambling again. It's been 1500 years already, and I got a roast in the oven! ;)

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectricism.. previously in these threads you mocked & scoffed me when I referenced the 10 recorded Utterances that God employed to create the universe... here they are: Gen 1:1 And God said "In the beginning," then #2 Gen 1:3, #3 Gen 1:6, #4 Gen 1:9, #5 Gen 1:11, #6 Gen 1:14, #7 Gen 1:20, #8 Gen 1:24, #9 Gen 1:26, #10 Gen 1:29.

[Spectrism]

@Spectricism.. previously in these threads you mocked & scoffed me when I referenced the 10 recorded Utterances that God employed to create the universe... here they are: Gen 1:1 And God said "In the beginning," then #2 Gen 1:3, #3 Gen 1:6, #4 Gen 1:9, #5 Gen 1:11, #6 Gen 1:14, #7 Gen 1:20, #8 Gen 1:24, #9 Gen 1:26, #10 Gen 1:29.


What are you trying to say? Just come right out and say it.

[BarnkleBob]

What are you trying to say? Just come right out and say it.

Are we in agreement that Torah & KJV Genesis chapter 1 record the 10 utterances that G-d employed to create the universe??? "And God SAID*****"......

[Spectrism]

Are we in agreement that Torah & KJV Genesis chapter 1 record the 10 utterances that G-d employed to create the universe??? "And God SAID*****"......

You are one of few words so I am not certain of all your meaning... as implied meanings not spoken are used to trip people up. I can agree this much- God spoke the creation into being.

[sirgonzo420]

You are one of few words so I am not certain of all your meaning... as implied meanings not spoken are used to trip people up. I can agree this much- God spoke the creation into being.

Do you know why He uttered 10 things instead of creating Creation in one fell swoop, with one utterance?

Likewise, do you know why He took 6-7 days, instead of doing it all in one day?

[Spectrism]

@Spectricism.. previously in these threads you mocked & scoffed me when I referenced the 10 recorded Utterances that God employed to create the universe... here they are: Gen 1:1 And God said "In the beginning," then #2 Gen 1:3, #3 Gen 1:6, #4 Gen 1:9, #5 Gen 1:11, #6 Gen 1:14, #7 Gen 1:20, #8 Gen 1:24, #9 Gen 1:26, #10 Gen 1:29.

No! You are not reading from the bible. You are trying to fit things to a formula. Come out of the shadows and speak in plain daylight. You list verses that deny what you say.



Do you know why He uttered 10 things instead of creating Creation in one fell swoop, with one utterance?

Likewise, do you know why He took 6-7 days, instead of doing it all in one day?


Is this what BB is getting at? Fitting some mystical formula to what was written? It so happens that God said alot more things than were recorded. And NO- I don't presume to put these things into a box. The "why" of creation is beyond us other than to know that it pleased God to make things good. He is the Master of order and His method of creation is just fine with me.

[Neuro]

Do you know why He uttered 10 things instead of creating Creation in one fell swoop, with one utterance?

Likewise, do you know why He took 6-7 days, instead of doing it all in one day?
Now THAT is a nail biter!

[BarnkleBob]

No! You are not reading from the bible. You are trying to fit things to a formula. Come out of the shadows and speak in plain daylight. You list verses that deny what you say.





Is this what BB is getting at? Fitting some mystical formula to what was written? It so happens that God said alot more things than were recorded. And NO- I don't presume to put these things into a box. The "why" of creation is beyond us other than to know that it pleased God to make things good. He is the Master of order and His method of creation is just fine with me.
WTF is wrong with you? You just said Genesis isnt in the Bible? Wow, what are you using as a bible? Secondly, I was very specific in stating "the 10 utterances employed in creating the universe.." Nothing else! The rest is conjecture or mental illness on your part....

[Spectrism]

WTF is wrong with you? You just said Genesis isnt in the Bible? Wow, what are you using as a bible? Secondly, I was very specific in stating "the 10 utterances employed in creating the universe.." Nothing else! The rest is conjecture or mental illness on your part....

Look you illiterate clown! I wrote very specifically that verses you listed were not in the bible as utterances of God. All I needed to do is look at the first one. For the purpose of accuracy- something you appear unable to manage- I am requoting your post:


@Spectricism.. previously in these threads you mocked & scoffed me when I referenced the 10 recorded Utterances that God employed to create the universe... here they are: Gen 1:1 And God said "In the beginning," then #2 Gen 1:3, #3 Gen 1:6, #4 Gen 1:9, #5 Gen 1:11, #6 Gen 1:14, #7 Gen 1:20, #8 Gen 1:24, #9 Gen 1:26, #10 Gen 1:29.

Gen 1:1 And God said "In the beginning,"

This is NOT what the bible says. Here are some varied translations for you-

Gen 1:1
(Bishops) In the beginnyng GOD created ye heauen and the earth.
(Darby) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(GEB) Im Anfang schuf Gott die Himmel und die Erde.
(Geneva) In the beginning God created the heauen and the earth.
(GLB) Am Anfang schuf Gott Himmel und Erde.


You want to know WTF is wrong with me? I get pissed off when people try to play games with me. I get pissed off when people misquote scripture and then pretend it says something it doesn't. I get pissed off when someone cannot bother to complete a whole sentence and then expects me to reply to dangling words that did not make any sense.

[BarnkleBob]

Look you illiterate clown! I wrote very specifically that verses you listed were not in the bible as utterances of God. All I needed to do is look at the first one. For the purpose of accuracy- something you appear unable to manage- I am requoting your post:



Gen 1:1 And God said "In the beginning,"

This is NOT what the bible says. Here are some varied translations for you-

Gen 1:1
(Bishops) In the beginnyng GOD created ye heauen and the earth.
(Darby) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(GEB) Im Anfang schuf Gott die Himmel und die Erde.
(Geneva) In the beginning God created the heauen and the earth.
(GLB) Am Anfang schuf Gott Himmel und Erde.


You want to know WTF is wrong with me? I get pissed off when people try to play games with me. I get pissed off when people misquote scripture and then pretend it says something it doesn't. I get pissed off when someone cannot bother to complete a whole sentence and then expects me to reply to dangling words that did not make any sense.


And if God did NOT by implication utter "In the beginning" then WHO DID? Dammit man, use some sense....

[Neuro]

In the beginnyng GOD created ye heauen and the earth.
Ponce?

[Dogman]

Ponce? Stranger things have been known to happen!

[Spectrism]

And if God did NOT by implication utter "In the beginning" then WHO DID? Dammit man, use some sense....

You use some sense. Who is it that penned the pentateuch? Who told the story of the creation? It was not God talking about Himself.

I don't mind people being hard-headed when they are locked on solid ground but it is annoying as hell when people insist on inaccuracy. When plotting artillery fire, inaccuracy kills friendlies. When calculating payload and energy consumption for passenger aircraft or space ships, inaccuracy kills people. When ordering materials for a construction project, inferior bolts or concrete, or undersized beams kill people.

[BarnkleBob]

You use some sense. Who is it that penned the pentateuch? Who told the story of the creation? It was not God talking about Himself.

I don't mind people being hard-headed when they are locked on solid ground but it is annoying as hell when people insist on inaccuracy. When plotting artillery fire, inaccuracy kills friendlies. When calculating payload and energy consumption for passenger aircraft or space ships, inaccuracy kills people. When ordering materials for a construction project, inferior bolts or concrete, or undersized beams kill people.

Again you skirt the question.... who said "In the beginning?" Was it God or someone else? Remember its the infallible word that must be interpretted literally. Now when cornered you seek to blame the scribes for YOUR error. Typical!

[Spectrism]

Again you skirt the question.... who said "In the beginning?" Was it God or someone else? Remember its the infallible word that must be interpretted literally. Now when cornered you seek to blame the scribes for YOUR error. Typical!

So you are a liar like the others.

I gave you the answer plainly and it is clear that I don't "blame the scribes" for anything. I am blaming you for adding words to the scripture. It was YOU that put those words in there. Show me a bible or torah that says specifically what you wrote.


1

In the beginning Elohim created theheavens and the earth.

2

And the earth came to be a formless andempty, and darkness was on the face of thedeep. And the Spirit of Elohim was movingon the face of the waters.

3

And Elohim said, “Let light come tobe,” and light came to be.

4

And Elohim saw the light, that it wasgood. And Elohim separated the light fromthe darkness.

5

And Elohim called the light ‘day’ andthe darkness He called ‘night.’ And therecame to be evening and there came to bemorning, the first day.

6

And Elohim said, “Let an expansecome to be in the midst of the waters, andlet it separate the waters from the waters.”

7

And Elohim made the expanse, andseparated the waters which were under theexpanse from the waters which were abovethe expanse. And it came to be so.

8

And Elohim called the expanse ‘heavens.’And there came to be evening andthere came to be morning, the second day.

9

And Elohim said, “Let the waters underthe heavens be gathered together into oneplace, and let the dry land appear.” And itcame to be so.

10

And Elohim called the dry land ‘earth,’and the collection of the waters He called‘seas.’ And Elohim saw that it was good.

11

And Elohim said, “Let the earth bringforth grass, the plant that yields seed, andthe fruit tree that yields fruit according toits kind, whose seed is in itself, on theearth.” And it came to be so.

12

And the earth brought forth grass, theplant that yields seed according to its kind,and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed isin itself according to its kind. And Elohim
saw that it was good.
-----------------------


It does not take great reading skills to look at the verses and read clearly where it says: And Elohim said. For you to add that where it is not shows disregard for the scriptures.

Elohim is the plurality of God.

The first 5 books of the bible / torah- the pentateuch- are suspected of being penned by Moses. I think this is a fair choice to ascribe the authorship to Moses. Obviously, he was not there at the beginning of time so he had to be given this information.

[Horn]

The "why" of creation is beyond us other than to know that it pleased God to make things good. He is the Master of order and His method of creation is just fine with me.

Why ask, why? Just enjoy the wine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bdExokIh9I

[BarnkleBob]

Again rather than THINK you apply nonsense... OK, call it Elohim, if Elohim did not state "In the Beginning" then who did? Clearly before consciousness could manifest, there must be thought.... as in "In the beginning" for how would Elohim know it was a beginning?

[BarnkleBob]

Everyones a LIAR that doesnt agree with YOU? Thats already been tried bud! It didnt work out very well!

[BarnkleBob]

Everyones a LIAR that doesnt agree with YOU? Thats already been tried bud! It didnt work out very well!

Actually please forgive my outburst (supra)... seems to me you have "all the form" yet you lack substance & understanding... it will come hopefully b4 its to late! :)

[Horn]

It doesn't matter, Bob.

We as God's children aren't responsible for fate, or even ourselves.

Don't ask why, just enjoy the ride, and pass by confessional every once in a blue moon.

You're just an archetype, anyway, with no chance at being enlightened, only a homogenous stasis is available to you. [sarc off]

That's the one message, and the most liberally conservative as it gets.

[Santa]

It doesn't matter, Bob.

We as God's children aren't responsible for fate, or even ourselves.

Don't ask why, just enjoy the ride, and pass by confessional every once in a blue moon.

You're just an archetype, anyway, with no chance at being enlightened, only a homogenous stasis is available to you. [sarc off]

That's the one message, and the most liberally conservative as it gets.

Well, for fun lets pretend that you are just one of many billions of anus cells in God's body. It's your job to care for yourself by taking in all the required nutrients so you can do your best in helping God defecate properly. Knowing your archetypal part in Life is important, because when an anus cell thinks it's another god, for instance, it causes much consternation among the brain cells so they send a contingent of antibodies down to remove that little dingleberry before it contaminates the entire region. ;D

[sirgonzo420]

Well, for fun lets pretend that you are just one of many billions of anus cells in God's body. It's your job to care for yourself by taking in all the required nutrients so you can do your best in helping God defecate properly. Knowing your archetypal part in Life is important, because when an anus cell thinks it's another god, for instance, it causes much consternation among the brain cells so they send a contingent of antibodies down to remove that little dingleberry before it contaminates the entire region. ;D

Holy shit!

[Horn]

Well, for fun lets pretend that you are just one of many billions of anus cells in God's body. It's your job to care for yourself by taking in all the required nutrients so you can do your best in helping God defecate properly. Knowing your archetypal part in Life is important, because when an anus cell thinks it's another god, for instance, it causes much consternation among the brain cells so they send a contingent of antibodies down to remove that little dingleberry before it contaminates the entire region. ;D

The First Church of Single Celled Organisms!

[Santa]

Further, it's probably true that being an archetype of an anus cell in God's body, you will never become enlightened. Forget about it.
But there is great joy and comfort in knowing through faith that your anal archetype role in the Universe is every bit as important as those mean old brain cell archetypes.

[Spectrism]

Again rather than THINK you apply nonsense... OK, call it Elohim, if Elohim did not state "In the Beginning" then who did? Clearly before consciousness could manifest, there must be thought.... as in "In the beginning" for how would Elohim know it was a beginning?

The name or title is not important. That was just another version of bible that I quoted from. Don't get sidetracked. The point was that YOU added words that were not here. The words were spoken third person of the act by God. The first verse of the bible is an observer recording what he was told happened. It was not God (except by inspiration of the Spirit) who was writing. All scripture is God-breathed but it is the hand of man that penned it.


Everyones a LIAR that doesnt agree with YOU? Thats already been tried bud! It didnt work out very well!

People can disagree with me and we can both be wrong or we can both be right or one of us can be right. Again- that is not the issue. You seem to have a hard time focusing on the point at hand. When someone twists the words of another to a false meaning, that is lying. Honest disagreements are fine and part of learning. Dishonest word manipulations are not productive to good conversation.



It doesn't matter, Bob.

We as God's children aren't responsible for fate, or even ourselves.

Don't ask why, just enjoy the ride, and pass by confessional every once in a blue moon.

You're just an archetype, anyway, with no chance at being enlightened, only a homogenous stasis is available to you. [sarc off]

That's the one message, and the most liberally conservative as it gets.

What qualifies you to be a child of God?

How are you not responsible for yourself and your actions?

[Horn]

Further, it's probably true that being an archetype of an anus cell in God's body, you will never become enlightened. Forget about it.
But there is great joy and comfort in knowing through faith that your anal archetype role in the Universe is every bit as important as those mean old brain cell archetypes.

Aha, I can see where you are going with this,

Not only is the choice only between two lumps of coal, one of them also happens to be laced with Anthrax. :)

[Santa]

The First Church of Single Celled Organisms!


No, that would be your religion, believing you are a single celled organism, quite apart from the greater body of Christ.

Actually, the idea of people as archetypes just recently came to me in a conversation with another brain cell archetype.

The idea went like this.

When one of us dies, we die. End of that life. Over. Poof!.... But at the same time an essentially exact duplicate takes the cells place.
It takes the old cells place with all the attributes intact, even down to the cellular memory. Therefore no death actually occurs so long as the body, (God) or the Universe, or whatever you call it continues living.

We die psychically or spiritually, or perhaps the life energy dissipates when we choose to deny that we are a mere part of God, albeit a miniscule part. We deny our role, becoming lost from replenishment or rebirth, and it grieves God the Greater Body for the loss because He too loses part of Himself.

Metaphor is necessary because these idea's can't be verbally described in any other way.

And Horn, I really don't know that you are an anus cell archetype, I'm just kidding around with you. OO)~

But hey, if you want something more than a lump of coal for Christmas, you're gonna have to leave a big ass tray full of oatmeal raisin cookies and delicious fresh organic raw milk on the mantle, boy.

[Horn]

But hey, if you want something more than a lump of coal for Christmas, you're gonna have to leave a big ass tray full of oatmeal raisin cookies and delicious fresh organic raw milk on the mantle, boy.

How about I leave a tiny cookie for your big fat ass?

Divine Consciousness is as an extension of God, not a single celled organ player archetype...

I respect you, you know that. or if you don't, please do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZRNPUmwAOY

[freespirit]

i'm leaving santa a glass of scotch and a joint. just like every year.

it works, too! i always get what i want for Christmas!

;D

[Santa]

i'm leaving santa a glass of scotch and a joint. just like every year.

it works, too! i always get what i want for Christmas!


Santa Likes Sweet Bud! But it doesn't have to be top shelf scotch. :)

[Santa]

Mother and Child.

4115

[joboo]

I am the creator.

The purest perfection that ever existed.

All things that flow from me are of the highest level of perfection. Witness my perfection. No flaws can possibly exist.

Knowing all things possible well in advance, I like to create and destroy things in a fiery pit because zapping them with lightning bolts got boring.

I also hired some red horned dude because it's simply too tiring for me to overlook such a tedious process while I'm busy counting all the hairs on everyone's head.

It's like making ants, and burning them up with a magnifying glass.

Fun as shit yo.

;)

[Horn]

It's like making ants, and burning them up with a magnifying glass.

Fun as shit yo.



just remember, joboo.

Once in heaven, there's no turning back to go the other way, or having any choice whatsoever.

God himself couldn't stop burning the ants even if he wanted to, its a predestined fate white zone up there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyOX4G7TmE0

[joboo]

"It all started off good until my mother in law, and her fat ass showed up."

When my heaven turned into an inescapable hell. Season 1 finale.

Could make a good TV mini series.

[BarnkleBob]

The number ten is called a "perfect number" and symbolized the unity and synthesis of creation.

[BarnkleBob]

Tetractys can be interpreted as the symbolic blueprint of creation. Its image is an equilateral triangle based on the essential numbers 1 (top), 2, 3 and 4 (base), whose sum is the “perfect” number 10 ( 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10). http://www.blog.world-mysteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tetractys1.png

[Horn]

Tetractys can be interpreted as the symbolic blueprint of creation. Its image is an equilateral triangle based on the essential numbers 1 (top), 2, 3 and 4 (base), whose sum is the “perfect” number 10 ( 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10). http://www.blog.world-mysteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tetractys1.png

This guy's got a ten stage torus with tendons.

http://www.trip.net/~bobwb/ts/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1.html

http://tensegritychiro.com/wp-content/flagallery/tensegrity-structures/tensegrity-4.jpg

(http://www.trip.net/~bobwb/ts/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1.html)Tensegrity, tensional integrity or floating compression, is a structural principle based on the use of isolated components in compression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_%28physical%29) inside a net of continuous tension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_%28mechanics%29), in such a way that the compressed members (usually bars or struts) do not touch each other and the prestressed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestressed_structure) tensioned members (usually cables or tendons) delineate the system spatially.




(http://www.trip.net/~bobwb/ts/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1.html)

[BarnkleBob]

There is a mystery around the number 10... there are the 10 utterances of the creation, the 10 commandments of Mosaic law, the 10 Sephiras, the 10 planetary spheres, the 10 chakras, the 10 digits on the hands & feet, the 10 digit decimal system, 0-1\1-0...

[Glass]

There is a mystery around the number 10... there are the 10 utterances of the creation, the 10 commandments of Mosaic law, the 10 Sephiras, the 10 planetary spheres, the 10 chakras, the 10 digits on the hands & feet, the 10 digit decimal system, 0-1\1-0...

I don't think base 10 is in any way a special number system. It is not in harmony. A 12 base system on the other hand is harmonious. The issue is the intellectual abilities of the user. 12 base is more complicated to operate with. I think there is a hidden reason for the move from "imperial" 12 base in to the 10 base numeric system. What that is, is the Mystery IMO.

There were also many more commandments than 10.

[singular_me]

if you arent you familiar with Nassim Haramein, watch him... all the geometry of the Universe explained


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79_HwQ-92f8

its all about maths and it is what the occult is mainly about, those who knows the maths, rule this physical reality. fascinating, IMHO


Tetractys can be interpreted as the symbolic blueprint of creation. Its image is an equilateral triangle based on the essential numbers 1 (top), 2, 3 and 4 (base), whose sum is the “perfect” number 10 ( 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10). http://www.blog.world-mysteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tetractys1.png

[singular_me]

agree... the Dodecahedron is perfection as it is 4 times 3.... but it all starts with the Tetrahedron, the triangle, thats why all religious beliefs recognize the Trinity as important.

but 10 is also a special number as it symbolized the 1 to 9 going back to it square 1. 10 being 1+0= 1. 11 is a master number, well in numerology.


I don't think base 10 is in any way a special number system. It is not in harmony. A 12 base system on the other hand is harmonious. The issue is the intellectual abilities of the user. 12 base is more complicated to operate with. I think there is a hidden reason for the move from "imperial" 12 base in to the 10 base numeric system. What that is, is the Mystery IMO.

There were also many more commandments than 10.

[singular_me]

I was discussing that with singular_me in a prior thread, how the environment could've been slightly different in the past.

Quote Originally Posted by joboo View Post
Whoa...Big surprise! People really are products of their environment.

yeah, Bruce Lipton, PhD biologist, has established that it is the environment that modifies the DNA, look at the side-effects of drugs and bad food... speaks by itself. Animals will also adapt to their environment, which is too very obvious.

So now I will drop a bomb again: the serpent in many mythologies represents the DNA, means that those who can control the DNA, rule. The Eden tale/allegory the Serpent is in the Three of Knowledge. How insightful. Yet the serpent is said to be deceitful... neither entirely true/false...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy8dk5iS1f0


Dr Bruce Lipton - Our Cell Membrane Can Change Our DNA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8vB7AdcWI

[singular_me]

I do believe that the scriptures holds many truths (like any other religious texts) which are allegoric by nature as 2000 years ago people couldnt wrap their mind around certain concepts. However my point is that the elites being who they are, were no better than today, when the Bible was put together. Religions have always been tools for mass control.

there are many verses in the bible saying that God is One with his creation (have no time to search right now), yet anybody approaching pantheism is deemed a satanist by christian standard. Go figure.


Oh big suprise, crossbreeds posing as Israelites don't really believe the scriptures.

[Neuro]

yeah, Bruce Lipton, PhD biologist, has established that it is the environment that modifies the DNA, look at the side-effects of drugs and bad food... speaks by itself. so Darwin is a mega fraud by extension. Animals will also adapt to their environment, which is too very obvious.

So now I will drop a bomb again: the serpent in many mythologies represents the DNA, means that those who can control the DNA, rule. The Eden tale/allegory the Serpent is in the Three of Knowledge. How insightful. Yet the serpent is said to be deceitfully... neither entirely true/false
This is bullshit! Mythologies apart from this new age mythology you are spreading stem from a time when they didn't have electron microscopes, they couldn't possibly have any knowledge about DNA and its appearance. Serpents were considered dangerous because they could kill you.

[joboo]

People give waaaaay too much credit to the biblical times IMO.

Society back then was basically a herd of talking farm animals. Dumb as dirt.

Put it this way...the smartest people in the world were still drilling holes in peoples heads to cure headaches over 1500 years later.

It's some kind of fanatic romanticism with the past.

If you want to see what it was really like, go visit a goat farmer in rural Afghanistan, and have a chat about deep cerebral topics. It won't take long to get the idea.

[Neuro]

People give waaaaay too much credit to the biblical times IMO.

Society back then was basically a herd talking of farm animals. Dumb as dirt.

Put it this way...the smartest people in the world were still drilling holes in peoples heads to cure headaches over 1500 years later.

It's some kind of fanatic romanticism with the past.

If you want to see what it was really like, go visit a goat farmer in rural Afghanistan, and have a chat about deep topics. It won't take long to get the idea.
LOL my closest neighbour at my bug out land in Turkey, is a goat farmer, I really do like him, but he is a simple man...

[BarnkleBob]

Truth be known the first astrologers, cosmologists, scientists & alchemists etc. were the priesthood... they codified the science into scriptures attempting to describe G-d & the universe...

[BarnkleBob]

Indeed, the serpent is DNA & the Kundalini experience... vis-a- vis :)

[sirgonzo420]

Truth be known the first astrologers, cosmologists, scientists & alchemists etc. were the priesthood... they codified the science into scriptures attempting to describe G-d & the universe...

Pretty much.

[Horn]

Hindu's seemed to dig serpants from way back,

the bible's reverse canonizing them just seems good marketing strategy IMO.

http://aspiretoyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Lord-Vishnu1.jpg

[BarnkleBob]

I don't think base 10 is in any way a special number system. It is not in harmony. A 12 base system on the other hand is harmonious. The issue is the intellectual abilities of the user. 12 base is more complicated to operate with. I think there is a hidden reason for the move from "imperial" 12 base in to the 10 base numeric system. What that is, is the Mystery IMO.

There were also many more commandments than 10.

Believing that nothing exists without a center, mathematical philosophers started with a point and drew a circle around it. This symbol is called the monad and represents the number one. This figure is the most stable, and the mathematical philosophers also called it The First, The Essence, The Foundation, and Unity. Pythagoras believed the monad to be god and the good. The monad is origin of the One. The monad is the seed of a tree for which the numbers are to the monad as what the branches of a tree are to the see of a tree. The monad in relation to other numbers preserves the identity of every other number or anything it encounters. Any number multiplied by one is itself, and any number divided by one is itself.

[BarnkleBob]

Ten is the very nature of number. All Greeks and all barbarians alike count up to ten, and having reached ten revert again to the unity. And again, Pythagoras maintains, the power of the number 10 lies in the number 4, the tetrad. This is the reason: If one starts at the unit (1) and adds the successive number up to 4, one will make up the number 10 (1 +2 + 3 + 4 = 10). Father, Mother, Son & Daughter (Gaia), The number 11 expresses the perfection of the number ten being the "Thing Itself!" http://www.jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMAT6680Fa06/Hobgood/Pythagoras.html

[Spectrism]

Back to the OP.... you have proven why jews cannot accept the NT or the OT.
They are too busy worshipping false gods.

[BarnkleBob]

Zero is a numerical or symbolic representation of the Supreme Being who is without form and without qualities. Very little is known about this quality. He is the known unknown. So is zero. No one knows for sure what this number is, what it represents and what its true value is. What we know about it are but assumptions. The physical laws of the universe do not apply to zero. It stands as a bridge between physical and the metaphysical realms and between reason and faith. It is indefinable and can be explained only in terms of "not this" and "not that". It is indivisible, without form, without qualities, without a beginning and without an end. It is difficult to say whether it exists or not, whether it is a number or not, because no one knows for sure. It is a void, where nothing else exists but itself. Finite as well as infinite, the first and the last, the smallest and also the largest of all, it could neither be destroyed nor created. You can find it everywhere, hidden in every other number. Any number that you try to multiply with it becomes zero, but if you know the right way you can enhance the value of a number infinitely. Zero is thus a very apt symbol of the primal Being. There is no other symbol in our knowledge that can represent the Primal with such clarity and simplicity.

[undgrd]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up Metatron's Cube or The Flower of Life yet.

[joboo]

Zero is a numerical or symbolic representation of the Supreme Being who is without form and without qualities. Very little is known about this quality. He is the known unknown. So is zero. No one knows for sure what this number is, what it represents and what its true value is. What we know about it are but assumptions. The physical laws of the universe do not apply to zero. It stands as a bridge between physical and the metaphysical realms and between reason and faith. It is indefinable and can be explained only in terms of "not this" and "not that". It is indivisible, without form, without qualities, without a beginning and without an end. It is difficult to say whether it exists or not, whether it is a number or not, because no one knows for sure. It is a void, where nothing else exists but itself. Finite as well as infinite, the first and the last, the smallest and also the largest of all, it could neither be destroyed nor created. You can find it everywhere, hidden in every other number. Any number that you try to multiply with it becomes zero, but if you know the right way you can enhance the value of a number infinitely. Zero is thus a very apt symbol of the primal Being. There is no other symbol in our knowledge that can represent the Primal with such clarity and simplicity.

My take on the existence of zero is when black holes take in matter, they disassemble everything back into the most basic elemental components in the form of jets of particles that shoot outwards at insane speeds from the point of singularity...(which then subsequently recombine over time back into more complex structures only to repeat the process all over again into another event horizon somewhere else).

One cycle.

IMO black holes are the lungs of the universe, cleaning, and renewing. In the process of taking a breath, or a cycle or air, your diaphragm has to pass through a zero point in order to reverse phase/polarity/direction.

Like a sine wave.

i.e.
http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/2008/12-scientistsfi.jpg

[Horn]

Zero is a numerical or symbolic representation of the Supreme Being who is without form and without qualities. Very little is known about this quality. He is the known unknown.

http://chec.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/Easy-way-to-count-in-Binary-1s-and-0s.jpg

All you need to know about zeros or blackholes (that matters) is contained in the above picture, one is nothing without the other.

End sum is the radical realization that the inherit sense of divine consciousness, is all that matters.

Total eclipse shakubuku.

[Dogman]

Trying to divide by zero will get you ether a positive or negative infinity, which god represents.

[Horn]

Trying to devide by zero will get you ether a positive or negative infinity, which god represents.

Uh oh Dogman subscribed with his nihilistic calculator, the end is near. :)

What is contained within an exoteric numerical symbol that cannot be contained 10 fold within the infinity of your own heart?

[Santa]

Atheist porn. Lol...
http://www.soslang.com/term/atheist-porn

[joboo]

All zero represents is absence of motion in the universe.

Since everything is vibrating, and in perpetual motion, you need to pick a point that is motionless in order to accurately observe, and quantify things.

Relative to no motion everything is infinitely moving. Obviously.

Particles propagate through space and time like a sine wave, a vibration, a frequency. The longer something stands still, the more things around it move in relation to it.

[Horn]

Atheist porn. Lol...
http://www.soslang.com/term/atheist-porn

Again Santa, know that from a completely jewish perspective.

I see nothing in you but a great capacitor... to be switched on & off.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLP72O1V3PI

[BarnkleBob]

ONE is the symbolic representation of the manifested godhead with qualities & form. One represents the unmanifested in an awakened state who projects the world and the entire creation out of himself. The One, he is the cosmic soul, the cosmic presence! He creates the worlds and beings by his will & dynamic power. He is the highest manifested creator & creator of the rest of the gods. He is beyong the grasp of the senses & mind. One is the first to manifest somehow mysteriously from the equally mysterious zero. It is not zero that creates other numbers, but actually the number one... One also symbolizes the individual soul. The soul is G-od in the microcosmic aspect.

[Horn]

hey look they made a video game of me killing the demons...;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG2-PGXW80E

[BarnkleBob]

Soul is the "number one" hidden in every number. It is the essence of the Eternal One. The soul & G-d share the same essence & same consciousness, but they are of differing relationships. According to monistic schools, G-d & soul are one & the same reality, and in the end the soul is transmuted back into the godhead. The dualist schools believe that the two are separate & distinct, tho they are the same essence they never unite; they remain distinct forever. According to them an individual soul may achieve self realization but would continue to exist externally as a separate self within the manifested one!

[BarnkleBob]

The number One may not have the range of zero in symbolizing the eternal godhead, but it has many of the latters qualities. Like the manifested godhead who is the creator of all empirical reality, the number one is actually the creator of all other numbers.... As in our creation, one becomes many by multiplying itself & then residing in them. It is also different from zero because it has the quality or value of one. It is however not eternal in the true sense of the word because like the manifested godhead, it dissolves into zero or nothingness when the former is withdrawn into the latter...

[BarnkleBob]

The number one also symbolizes the state of non-duality, the one-ness of existence hidden in all creation beyond the veil of delusion. The oneness of being is also a subjective state of both the soul & the unmanifested, in which there is no experience of distinction & separation between the known & the knower, the object & the subject, the self & the non-self, ... immersed in the self, permanent, unchanging & unmoving. It is a state of "I am I am" in which I transcends the ego to become "I" alone. DOES the number ONE know that it exists? Perhaps not, except in a state of duality...

[sirgonzo420]

The number one also symbolizes the state of non-duality, the one-ness of existence hidden in all creation beyond the veil of delusion. The oneness of being is also a subjective state of both the soul & the unmanifested, in which there is no experience of distinction & separation between the known & the knower, the object & the subject, the self & the non-self, ... immersed in the self, permanent, unchanging & unmoving. It is a state of "I am I am" in which I transcends the ego to become "I" alone. DOES the number ONE know that it exists? Perhaps not, except in a state of duality...

Atma and Brahma are One!

[Horn]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/inline/000A41D6-B959-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7_arch1.gif

TIMELINE shows the development of zero throughout the world. The first recorded zero appeared in Mesopotamia around 3 B.C. The Mayans invented it independently circa 4 A.D. It was later devised in India in the mid-fifth century, spread to Cambodia near the end of the seventh century, and into China and the Islamic countries at the end of the eighth. Zero reached western Europe in the 12th century.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-the-origin-of-zer

[BarnkleBob]

Atma and Brahma are One!

It is sad that most Xians dont realize the plagarism in the bible.... much influenced by the eastern religions of Buddhism & Hinduism. The NT tried to implement & blend both monistic & dualistic schools.... what a mess!

[joboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbTDCqwCUYo

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kGWEC7D1tnY#!

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qa-tran.htm

[Glass]

I think it's worth pointing out that prophesy is not necessarily plagarism.

[BarnkleBob]

Ten being the recipient or receptacle of all numbers was called Decad, from dechomai = to receive, and hence Heaven, which was ordained to receive all men. Like the Deity it is a Circle, with visible centre, but its circumference too vast for sight. It is the sum of the units of the number four as previously mentioned, a holy and Deistic number, thus 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 are 10, and thus ten gains splendour from its parentage. Also spoken of as "Eternity," which is infinite life, because it contains every number in itself, and number is infinite. It is also called Kosmos, that is the "Universe." Proclus says: The decad is mundane also, it is the world which receives the images of all the divine numbers, which are supernaturally imparted to it. It is called "the fountain of eternal nature," because if we take the half, five as the middle number, and add together the next above and the next below, viz., 6 and 4, we make to, and the next two in a similar manner 7 and 3 are 10; and so on 8 and 2 and 9 and 1 give the same result. http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/nop/nop17.htm

[Horn]

http://www.epicturebook.net/Images/ten%20fingers3.gif

Forty days later into the clouds his physical body went.

[BarnkleBob]

I think it's worth pointing out that prophesy is not necessarily plagarism.

Indeed.... prophecy is prophecy until its hi-jacked by pretenders making unsubstantiated claims that they are "G-ds chosen people!" If they will lie about these things, then they will lie about anything...

[Glass]

Likewise prophecy is not history and history is not prophecy, but prophecy could be mistaken as history.

[Horn]

Likewise prophecy is not history and history is not prophecy, but prophecy could be mistaken as history.

Like wine & bread, or Santa's cookies & milk, one compliments the other.

[Glass]

No they don't. They are not "kind of the same" at all.

[BarnkleBob]

" I'm surprised nobody has brought up Metatron's Cube or The Flower of Life yet." .... The Lotus Flower, the representation of "the golden ratio 1.618," Metratons Cube, spaces within spaces with spaces ad infinitum... represents the holographic nature of the universe....

[Horn]

No they don't. They are not "kind of the same" at all.

New testament fulfills the prophetic history of the old testament.

Reason Jesus words weren't scribed in his life time, those that surrounded him expected things to be different from then on out.

Later those words were taken and molded to form another prophecy.

[BarnkleBob]

Such was the power of the world's theocracies that, despite the publication of thousands of scholarly books and articles refuting every part of the Judaeo- Christian bible, to this day the existence of unchallengeable proof that the bible is a work of fiction is unknown to ninety percent of the population in Christian-dominated societies. William Harwood, Mythology's Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus, 16

[EE_]

Anyone going?
The true symbol of America!

http://www.davidduke.com/images/Giant-menorah-lighting-by-White-House-Chief-of-Staff-Rahm-Emanuel.JPG

National Hanukkah Menorah 2012 in Washington, DC
By Rachel Cooper

A National Hanukkah Menorah is lit on the White House grounds, at the Ellipse during the eight day Jewish holiday commemorating the Jewish Maccabees' military victory over Syrian oppression more than 2,000 years ago. During Hanukkah, Jews across the world celebrate the miracle of light that burnt for eight days out of a single-days-worth of oil found in the Temple. One Hanukkah candle is lit the first night, and an additional candle is lit each successive night. The holiday is a celebration of religious freedom and hope.

National Hanukkah Menorah Lighting Ceremony
Festivities at the lighting ceremony include musical performances and hot latkes and donuts. This year's celebration will feature the US Air Force Band. The menorah will be lit each night of Hanukkah.

Date and Time: December 9, 2012, 4 p.m.

Location: The Ellipse, near the White House (at the NW end, near Constitution Avenue), Washington, DC.

Parking: Parking is extremely limited near the White House. The best way to get to the area is by metro. The closest stops are Metro Center, Federal Triangle, and McPherson Square. Read more about parking near the National Mall

Admission: Free tickets are required for reserved seats. Standing room is available to all. (202) 332-5600.

[BarnkleBob]

…Dr. Colenso, Bishop of Natal, stands out conspicuously. Of the highest intellectual attainments, trained to close and scientific inquiry; able, far better than men of meaner capacity, to weigh the value of "evidence," whether "ancient or modern," he has drawn the conclusion that the Bible is not what it is generally supposed to be; in other words, that its historical portions are not trustworthy, and that there is grave reason to believe its writings to have been produced for a purpose, which involved dishonesty in the scribe, and in the promulgator of his writings. The learned doctor was honest in his investigation, and fearless in announcing his conclusions. --Dr. Thomas Inman, British Royal Physician, Ancient Faiths and Modern, 444

[BarnkleBob]

One of the last items faced concerning the Scriptures is of more recent origin and may account for the vast majority of the linguistic problems that occur. I refer to the reworking of the Hebrew language by the Masorites and Tiberians, between the 6th to 12th centuries CE. The Masorites were responsible for many of the alterations in the vowels and definitions of the Hebrew words. In that the language had not been a spoken one for at least a hundred years before their endeavor, and not until 1948 was it brought back to life again after not being spoken for nearly 1600 years. This is one reason why meanings of a number of words are unknown thus making it difficult for the modern scholar to rely solely on the Hebrew version as the last authority. --Rev. Robert Palmer

[BarnkleBob]

'In the Middle Bronze age, groups of Canaanites moved into northern Egypt and established a local dynasty called the Hyksos, who eventually took over the whole of Egypt. Only in the Late Bronze Age, in about 1550 BC, did the Egyptian pharaohs expel the Hyksos, launch a military campaign against Canaan, and bring it under Egyptian control. Egypt imposed heavy taxes on Canaan, but in return the Canaanite cities gained security and better access to international markets. In the reign of Ramses II (1304-1237 BC), the empire was reorganized. Key strategic cities like Beth Shan and Gaza were strengthened, others were allowed to decline. Many people were made homeless and migrated to the Judean hill country, where they established small farming settlements. These dispossessed Canaanites, known to the Egyptians as Hapiru (or Hebrews), formed the basis of what was to become Israel.' --Bryan G. Wood, Associates for Biblical Research

[Glass]

I wonder what the criteria was? And yet it's important to consider the publisher's intent, especially if they are compiling the material to be published. As the investigation points out, the action of men is coloured by their pre-existing point of view, whether they be publishers or investigators. That's why I say it's important not to confuse prophecy with history. It's important for people to be able to recognize which is which otherwise it might affect their point of view to the point they reach a wrong conclusion.

[BarnkleBob]

'Beginning in the seventh and sixth centuries BC, several Israelite writers (especially Jeremiah, the Deuteronomist, and Second Isaiah) explicitly rejected the notion that there were gods other that Yahweh, and depicted the 'hosts of heaven' as a foreign intrusion in Israelite monotheism.'--Oxford companion to the bible

[Horn]

That's why I say it's important not to confuse prophecy with history. It's important for people to be able to recognize which is which otherwise it might affect their point of view to the point they reach a wrong conclusion.

They both mix together in the mouth well. The only thing separating one from the other after chewing is truth or lies. ie:Was the milk skimmed or full.

In the case of the bible the entire structure of writing is to avoid that investigative discernment. One is forced to take the bulk of the message as Spectro mentioned before.

Has anyone ever read the Jefferson Bible? Is it possible to?

It would certainly be skimmed milk.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2VozvhKYCDE/TuI3yjTLflI/AAAAAAAAPI0/VCPh-LGTx8w/s1600/Jefferson+Bible+sources.jpg

[Spectrism]

Such was the power of the world's theocracies that, despite the publication of thousands of scholarly books and articles refuting every part of the Judaeo- Christian bible, to this day the existence of unchallengeable proof that the bible is a work of fiction is unknown to ninety percent of the population in Christian-dominated societies. William Harwood, Mythology's Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus, 16

Such is the power of deception and stupidty, the aforementioned non-evidence and accusation.

[Horn]

The medicine man chimes in.



Now to your question: How did it come to an end? We don't know exactly--in fact, we know very little about the library's history. That hasn't prevented historians over the centuries from proposing various scenarios. The three main suspects are Julius Caesar, Bishop Theophilus, and Caliph Omar. Contrary to myth, there wasn't one great fire that destroyed the library, but instead several documented fires over a span of centuries. It seems likely, then, that the destruction of the library was gradual. The problem is that we have few contemporary accounts, and later writers often have some axe to grind.

One could say a prescription of fasting is required at certain instances throughout history.

You could also reverse engineer things to account, such that those who've been burning books since, have burned them in the past.

[Glass]

The medicine man chimes in.



One could say a prescription of fasting is required at certain instances throughout history.

You could also reverse engineer things to account, such that those who've been burning books since, have burned them in the past.

Fasting would suggest abstenance from a thing, not destruction of the thing and it is evident that destruction occurs and probably propels man into periods of uninformed or misinformed existance.

The writtings of man could be either prophecy or history. We'll ignore fantasy for now. As to which is which, is dependant on the disposition of the person considering the material. Are they a historian? Would they consider ancient material to be historical or would they consider it to be prophetic? That would depend on their perspective which is always bias and it would probably depend on their postion on the time line in relation to the creation of the material and the events described there in. So is the account historic or prophetic? The answer is, it depends but it's important as it can affect interpretation leading people to the wrong conclusions about the material they are considering.

[Horn]

The answer is, it depends but it's important as it can affect interpretation leading people to the wrong conclusions about the material they are considering.

The bulk of humanity would consider themselves living much too mundane an existence if they weren't able to account on some historical repetitive wisdom to prophesize the future, or exaggerate the past.

In essence what Christians are quarreling for is their right to fantasize prophecy into existent history. Removing, or even discerning the difference would be to remove their pursuit of happiness.

Its also important that the the two are allowed to remain well blended, so that man is more than broken record.

Man is meant to be wrong.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz5se4M41ZU

[mick silver]

because there jews and this went on for 9 pages

[Horn]

because there jews and this went on for 9 pages

micks got it right BB, jews could never complete their own prophecy for better or worse,

now since they weren't able to score, the world's been paying the price ever since... :):(

[Neuro]

During Hanukkah, Jews across the world celebrate the miracle of light that burnt for eight days out of a single-days-worth of oil found in the Temple.
That seems like a flimsy reason to have a holiday for several thousands of years, every year. Sometimes I have a tea light, that burns really low because the wick is short, and it probably last for 25-30 hours instead of the 4 hours a normal tea light would last. But I wouldn't pronounce a national holiday over it forever, to each their own I guess!

[sirgonzo420]

That seems like a flimsy reason to have a holiday for several thousands of years, every year. Sometimes I have a tea light, that burns really low because the wick is short, and it probably last for 25-30 hours instead of the 4 hours a normal tea light would last. But I wouldn't pronounce a national holiday over it forever, to each their own I guess!

Jews don't really give much of a shit about hanukkah, in general.... they just like to have something to compete with Christmas.

[Neuro]

Jews don't really give much of a shit about hanukkah, in general.... they just like to have something to compete with Christmas.
Happy holidays! Ooo(

[EE_]

Jews don't really give much of a shit about hanukkah, in general.... they just like to have something to compete with Christmas.

I don't think they care about competing with Christmas, because they're the one's counting the money after it. I think Hanukkah is just another way for the Jesus haters to take a big dump on the Gentiles. http://www.messentools.com/images/emoticones/humor/www.MessenTools.com-emoticones-humor-116.gif

[BarnkleBob]

the Jesus haters...LOL... ya gotta MORT-GAGE or car loan, etc., do u forgive debts? Did u kill ur ma & pa, bro & sis cause they dont believe as you may? Jesus haters eh.... its a bad fiction horror movie....

[BarnkleBob]

U laugh at cultures that worship the dead... but you do the same... you think mathematics explain the hologram, it doesnt! Nothing explains anything but the Demiurgos!

[Glass]

In essence what Christians are quarreling for

Quarreling with whom? Themselves?

I'm clearly being too oblique or you are out of your depth. I think the latter. So at the risk of sounding boring I'll repeat myself. I know BB gets it. Perhaps he can explain it to you given he is degrees more aware than you. Whether something is history or prophesy depends on the time line of the events relative to the creation of the material that "records" it. Someone who is a historian, will have a bias towards their own perspective. If something appears to be ancient writtings or records they might assume that material to be historical simply because it appears to be old. So the point is, it is important to determine if the material referred to is a record of history or prophecy. Otherwise you might draw the wrong conclusion. For instance you might consider a story repeated many times, before the event occured, to be a plagarised story. A historian might make that erroneous assumption. So a historian might only consider the relationship of their position in the time line with the material rather than the time line of the events relative to the record. What is worse is some one else might propogate that same error for lack of considering the material themselves directly. Always the prefered option otherwise you might find yourself tangled up in a chinese whisper.

[Horn]

Quarreling with whom? Themselves?

Yes.

I guess there was a misunderstanding. I'm accounting for the fantastic parts of prophecy within the religion itself in regards to the bible, or basically the entire show. Whether or not its prophecy or part of recorded history doesn't make a hides worth of difference to Christians.

And is not important in that regard.

[BarnkleBob]

Are the New Testament Gospels History? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rsaRQDxmLqY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DrsaRQDxmLqY%26feature%3 Dplayer_embedded

[BarnkleBob]

PROPHECIES: IMAGINARY AND UNFULFILLED http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/prophecy.html

[Horn]

I hesitated posting this video as it could be misconstrue as a piece spewed by an egomaniacal "toad head demon"

by our more sensitive viewers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6n4Te1jZ_c

[Spectrism]

Horn- you can eat all the horseshit you want. Sign up for the all-you-can eat specials and get to kiss ugly toads for free.

[BarnkleBob]

I hesitated posting this video as it could be misconstrue as a piece spewed by an egomaniacal "toad head demon"

by our more sensitive viewers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6n4Te1jZ_c

http://www.truthbeknown.com/images/freethoughtgear200.gif

[Horn]

Horn- you can eat all the horseshit you want. Sign up for the all-you-can eat specials and get to kiss ugly toads for free.

You know i luv u spectro, for you epitomize the me. lol :)

[Neuro]

Are the New Testament Gospels History? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rsaRQDxmLqY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DrsaRQDxmLqY%26feature%3 Dplayer_embedded
I would say that there can be several reasons for the lack of history re Jesus. One is the multiple destructions of the library in Alexandria, by Romans, Christians and Muslims in between 200-650 AD... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria. Then you had the rise of organized churchianity in the 4th century, that probably at one point or another wanted to destroy any historical evidence of Jesus that contradicted, or were not in complete agreance with the official approved Gospels and doctrines, which probably included most early documentations. Some of it may be in the Vatican library though...

Anyway I think if you look upon how Christianity spread during the first centuries AD, it seems rational to suppose that Jesus did exist and that his message was a powerful one. But that most of evidence pertaining to the real historical Jesus, was destroyed, and the Gospels at best only tell part of the truth, at worst is full of lies, all in the name of churchianity...

[BarnkleBob]

MURDERS: Jewish God 24 million V. Satan 10 .... http://www.whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/murders-god-vs-satan/

[joboo]

That seems like a flimsy reason to have a holiday for several thousands of years, every year. Sometimes I have a tea light, that burns really low because the wick is short, and it probably last for 25-30 hours instead of the 4 hours a normal tea light would last. But I wouldn't pronounce a national holiday over it forever, to each their own I guess!

When you start hearing voices inside your head that aren't your own, shit like that happens all the time. ;)

[Neuro]

I hesitated posting this video as it could be misconstrue as a piece spewed by an egomaniacal "toad head demon"

by our more sensitive viewers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6n4Te1jZ_c
First impression is that he is an egomaniacal toad head demon, I have to say...

[BarnkleBob]

"Both Mithras and Christ were described variously as 'the Way,' 'the Truth,' 'the Light,' 'the Life,' 'the Word,' 'the Son of God,' 'the Good Shepherd.' The Christian litany to Jesus could easily be an allegorical litany to the sun-god. Mithras is often represented as carrying a lamb on his shoulders, just as Jesus is. Midnight services were found in both religions. The virgin mother...was easily merged with the virgin mother Mary. Petra, the sacred rock of Mithraism, became Peter, the foundation of the Christian Church." -- Gerald Berry, Religions of the World http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

[Horn]

First impression is that he is an egomaniacal toad head demon, I have to say...

You certainly are sensitive...

[Spectrism]

You know i luv u spectro, for you epitomize the me. lol :)

You bet! Just giving you a friendly warning about food sources.

[BarnkleBob]

First impression is that he is an egomaniacal toad head demon, I have to say...

CLERGY CLAIMS GOD COMMITTED FRAUD by Clifton A. Emahiser http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIsrael/emahiser/em-gods-fraud.html

[Neuro]

You certainly are sensitive...
Thank you!

[BarnkleBob]

let's take a look to see who Messiah named as beneficiaries in His Last Will and Testament. In the Old Testament, this can be found in Jeremiah 31:31, and at Hebrews 8:8 in the New Testament Jeremiah 31:31: Behold the days come, saith Yahweh, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah. Hebrews 8:8: ... Behold the days come, saith Yahweh., when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Are we going to contest His Last Will and Testament, claiming the Redeemer must have been mentally incompetent when He made it because we don't approve of whom His beneficiaries are? Do you suppose we could rewrite the terms of His Will to meet our approval? For it would appear, if we were not of the House of Israel or the House of Judah, we have no legal claim to His Will. http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIsrael/emahiser/em-gods-fraud.html

[BarnkleBob]

If the New Covenant/Testament was bequeathed to the House of Israeli and the House of Judah, what right do any other entities have to that claim? It is obvious; they have no right whatsoever! http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIsrael/emahiser/em-gods-fraud.html

[BarnkleBob]

the New Testament relates to the House of Israel and the House of Judah, and all other Scripture must "surround" or fit this concept. Let's take a look at some of these Scriptures: Acts 2:21: And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Messiah shall be saved. Under the rule that the New Testament must fit around or "surround" this, it must apply only to the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Anything else is criminal fraud! Acts 17:26: And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation. Here again, to be in context, this must apply only to the House of Israel and the House of Judah. From a first reading, it may not appear to be that way, but an Old Testament passage from which this Scripture is derived must be taken into account: Deuteronomy 32:8: When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. When it says in Acts 17:26: 'And hath made of one blood all nations of men". It is not talking about all the men on the earth, but the Adamic- Israelites of the House of Israel and the House of Judah. If all men were descended from Adam, why would it be necessary to set boundaries to enforce the segregation of Israel and Judah from other peoples? http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIsrael/emahiser/em-gods-fraud.html

[Glass]

Under the rule that the New Testament must fit around or "surround" this, it must apply only to the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

Where does this rule come from?

[BarnkleBob]

The article at link explains the rule...

[BarnkleBob]

Where does this rule come from?

Think about it, Yahweh was\is a Hebrew tribal deity, as such all covenants were with the special class of persons known as the "sons of Israel," no others, especially outsiders!

[BarnkleBob]

Yahweh names his purpose Exodus 3:14-15, 5:22-6:8. The covenant of the Mosaic law is announced between Yahweh & the special class of persons called the "sons of Israel. The sons of Israel are defined as direct blood descendants Genesis 46:9 (BENAI) & Chronicles 2:1 (NEPHESH). Said covent was NOT a contract with any other class of peoples! Remember Yahweh said "I will be your God & you will be my people!" Thus every covenent\contract is between Yahweh & his people, not outsiders.

[undgrd]

Yahweh names his purpose Exodus 3:14-15, 5:22-6:8. The covenant of the Mosaic law is announced between Yahweh & the special class of persons called the "sons of Israel. The sons of Israel are defined as direct blood descendants Genesis 46:9 (BENAI) & Chronicles 2:1 (NEPHESH). Said covent was NOT a contract with any other class of peoples! Remember Yahweh said "I will be your God & you will be my people!" Thus every covenent\contract is between Yahweh & his people, not outsiders.

Defenders of the soul? Or is NEPHESH describing a certain place or idea? There also seems to be reference to formless spirits and places built to honor them?

b'nai seems to be the plural of benai.

[BarnkleBob]

Do you know or understand why the covenant contracts HAD to be opened to third party interlopers? Revelation 3:9 references the 3rd party interlopers....

[JDRock]

jmho...this is a thinly disguised attack on the new testament under the guise of exposing jew hatred of the same.

[Spectrism]

jmho...this is a thinly disguised attack on the new testament under the guise of exposing jew hatred of the same.

LOL... thinly disguised? Our pretend jew is a lover of Baal. It is those who were haters of the Truth and deniers of the Messiah which were broken off of the tree of life and left room for the gentiles to be grafted in to Israel.

[BarnkleBob]

The Hebrews & first Gnostic Xians would not capitulate to earthly suzerain powers of invading rulers or local tyrants. Their existence was dominated by agreements between then & G-d himself. There was no room for 3rd party interlopers. This caused them to be hung on trees (crucified) or fed to lions etc. The Church\Constantine had to find a way in as 3rd party interlopers between G-d & his followers if they were to successfully rule over them!

[BarnkleBob]

LOL... thinly disguised? Our pretend jew is a lover of Baal. It is those who were haters of the Truth and deniers of the Messiah which were broken off of the tree of life and left room for the gentiles to be grafted in to Israel.

What absolute meaningless nonsense (supra).. Historical & archeological records do not support the claims. Who is the hater of truth? I seek truth... here is another truth, I'm neither Hebrew nor Jew, I'm Anglo+Saxon... however the fact remains that you worship the supposed Messiah\Moshiac Yeshua\Jesus who is written to be a Jew... It is you whom worship the Jew, not I.The REAL Xians went underground a long time ago... the only thing remaining now is the name & 3rd party interlopers...

[Horn]

Bob, the prophetic presumption is that you are jewish if you defame Xians.

Its the same as the defamation of jews makes you anti-semetic.

Know them by their works...

[BarnkleBob]

Bob, the prophetic presumption is that you are jewish if you defame Xians.

Its the same as the defamation of jews makes you anti-semetic.

Know them by their works...

@Horn.. I'm not anti-Xian or anti-Jew, I am anti-STUPIDITY & IGNORANCE. Absurd claims like extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And whats even worse is that lacking credible evidence these individuals mis-interprete the uncredible unsubstantiated evidence to fit their incredible belief scheme. And when error is entered into the record, rather than respond with logical or reasonable refutation, they reduce themselves to child like name calling games. LMAO

[Horn]

they reduce themselves to child like name calling games. LMAO

I only disagree with the reduction part... as the highest reward for practice is to remain just that.

[Spectrism]

What absolute meaningless nonsense (supra).. Historical & archeological records do not support the claims. Who is the hater of truth? I seek truth... here is another truth, I'm neither Hebrew nor Jew, I'm Anglo+Saxon... however the fact remains that you worship the supposed Messiah\Moshiac Yeshua\Jesus who is written to be a Jew... It is you whom worship the Jew, not I.The REAL Xians went underground a long time ago... the only thing remaining now is the name & 3rd party interlopers...

You used the trademark "G-d" of a pretend jew. Your words were like many confused jews I have encountered. I knew you were not a Jew so I said "pretend jew".

I worship my Messiah who was born into this world as a man and a Jew. But He died and rose again to life and now holds all authority. It would be an insult to limit Him to being a Jew. He has many titels: Prince of Peace, Lamb of God, Son of God, King of Kings.

You post many references to men's words and you deny the bible as men's words. How do you not see the irony?

[BarnkleBob]

Yahweh in variations says to House of Judah & Israel; "I will be YOUR G-d, and YOU will be my people." Eze 36:28, Lev 26:22, Exo 6:7, Jer 30:22 & Heb 11:13-16... note Jer 31:31-34 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord."

[BarnkleBob]

Clearly Jeremiah 31:31-34 explicitly states that the "NEW COVENANT" is LIMITED to the house of Judah & Israel, NOT 3rd party interlopers. The interlopers are referenced @ Rev. 3:9. "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie." Claiming to be a third party to the new covenant when you are clearly not a Jew from the house of Israel or Judah indeed makes you a liar.

[Dogman]

This thread is working and being a candidate for the most epic thread of this year and maybe into the next! The one thing about religion/beliefs is than unless someone is ready to change, there is not a dam thing you can do to change their minds at all!

The arguments/debates are always healthy, it helps some to keep grounded.

But this thread has a darker side also, it shows how over history why so many millions have been killed in the name of religion!

The big thing is.....there is no dam way to know out of the thousands of religions that people follow in/on this world .....Who is right!

Because all will answer they are!!


Just my dos centavos

Carry on!

[Horn]

4146

[joboo]

This thread is working and being a candidate for the most epic thread of this year and maybe into the next! The one thing about religion/beliefs is than unless someone is ready to change, there is not a dam thing you can do to change their minds at all! The arguments/debates are always healthy, it helps some to keep grounded. But this thread has a darker side also, it shows how over history why so many millions have been killed in the name of religion! The big thing is.....there is no dam way to know out of the thousands of religions that people follow in/on this world .....Who is right! Because all will answer they are!! Just my dos centavos Carry on! This is the truth.

Been having some rows with staunch pro zionist's on another forum. One thing is for certain; no matter how much evidence you provide, from ANY mainstream source (forget anything with the slightest hint of alternative media), they will deny any wrongdoing, outright deny the (any) source, and point an accusing finger at you. It's simply a lost cause in some circumstances.

Not surprising in scriptural text when you see the "kill everything in sight", nuke it from orbit sentiment.

[joboo]

Proof positive it can (and often does) make people absolutely, off their face, f-ing batshit insane.

i.e.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=165DzT2JuZ0

[Glass]

Yahweh names his purpose Exodus 3:14-15, 5:22-6:8. The covenant of the Mosaic law is announced between Yahweh & the special class of persons called the "sons of Israel. The sons of Israel are defined as direct blood descendants Genesis 46:9 (BENAI) & Chronicles 2:1 (NEPHESH). Said covent was NOT a contract with any other class of peoples! Remember Yahweh said "I will be your God & you will be my people!" Thus every covenent\contract is between Yahweh & his people, not outsiders.

Yes but you are talking about about an old convenant, which those people rejected prima facie, before the ink was even dry so to speak. So there was another one, almost immediately. Then as time went on yet another one which is booked as the New Testament. This one is different in that the path to God is not open just for "Jews".

I think it's childish to put stuff out there and then when debated, deride those debating with you for not accepting your position outright. It's a pot calling the kettle black don't you think. I also not convined that you still dont get the earlier point. Prophesy is not history and ancient prophesy is not ancient history. This doesn't amount to plagarism. I think you both do get it, but we are conviniently ignoring it.

So lets get to the main point. I do not care if someone does not believe in God or Jesus. Ultimately thats for them to decide. I am disappointed that people don't think there is a place for them and they use this anger or what ever it is to try and disuade others. What does matter is that there are people who believe in Satan and will act in his name. These people exist and their actions are visible for all to see. Regardless of everything we need to be rid of these people. There is no room for being on the side lines because that is a free kick for the bad guys.

The people in the article are for the bad guys. There can be no doubt.

[Glass]

Perhaps someone can answer this for me, because I literally don't know. What happened to Lucifer? Where did he go?

[BarnkleBob]

Since Torah\O.T. testify to the Jews that they will be the beneficiaries of a future NEW COVENENT with Yahweh, and they reject said covenant as a Greco-Roman fraud, I would be a fool to doubt them... after all, they of all people would know the difference! Cui Bono (who benefits), third party interlopers (Constantine\Church) who forced their will & rulership onto the peoples under penalty of death! "You will believe or we will kill you!" This is in recorded history. Alas there were hold outs who never took the bait & today they still wont take it.... !

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaTQQ2ZteZc

[Spectrism]

Perhaps someone can answer this for me, because I literally don't know. What happened to Lucifer? Where did he go?

Lucifer is now called Satan. He is no longer the bearer of light. He is no longer an angel of heaven, but a fallen angel who is the god of the air around this world. I doubt anyone here is smarter than Lucifer/Satan.... and yet he loved his own prode and saw himself as equal with God. Blinded by his own self-delusion, he is a pitiful creature. And that pitiful creature has spawned blindness in many here. Even in this thread I see his seed injected into those who willingly embraced his delusion. What is it when you are a recipient of another inmates sperm? That is what you are in this world... those who mock God and consider themselves above God's law.


Horn, why would you post that crap? They were not black jews... they were niggers.

[Dogman]

Perhaps someone can answer this for me, because I literally don't know. What happened to Lucifer? Where did he go? Lucifer maybe the voice that whispers to you in the back of your mind , when you are at a point of making a choice of what to do.

We all are in reality at least 2-3 people,


1. The public one

2. The inner privet one.

3. The ones (inner) good and evil side of us, we are all of dual or more minds.

There is the Id, and self.

And then there is the evil one we all have living in the back of our minds,

And if you deniy it you are lying to your self!

Truth!

[Horn]

Horn, why would you post that crap? They were not black jews... they were niggers..,,


But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

It has a redeeming quality, don't you think?

[Spectrism]

.,,
It has a redeeming quality, don't you think?

Oooo.... you are incorrigible!

[Horn]

Oooo.... you are incorrigible!

Spectro, they're just words written by men, its OK...

[joboo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaTQQ2ZteZc

I caught that vid. I did LOL, but in the end I found it cruel.

Kinda proves take away religious agenda's, and you're left with people that are good, and people that are bad, and that's ultimately what matters.

The rest is noise.

[BarnkleBob]

Lucifer is now called Satan. He is no longer the bearer of light. He is no longer an angel of heaven, but a fallen angel who is the god of the air around this world. I doubt anyone here is smarter than Lucifer/Satan.... and yet he loved his own prode and saw himself as equal with God. Blinded by his own self-delusion, he is a pitiful creature. And that pitiful creature has spawned blindness in many here. Even in this thread I see his seed injected into those who willingly embraced his delusion. What is it when you are a recipient of another inmates sperm? That is what you are in this world... those who mock God and consider themselves above God's law.


Horn, why would you post that crap? They were not black jews... they were niggers.

LMAO... complete delusions & lies. No wonder the world is in the shape its in.... The invisible perfect man in the sky who somehow creates the evil invisible man who endlessly torments earths human inhabitants! Arrrg... whats wrong with this picture? Dont blame me "the devil made me do it!"

[BarnkleBob]

So, what is logic? Logic is the process of proper thinking based upon principles that govern the validity of arguments. Logic is used in proofs, refutations, explanations, and even in debates. Logic has laws. I’ll list three of them. The first law of logic is the law of identity. It states that something is what it is and is not what it is not.
For example, an egg is an egg and not a flashlight. The second law of logic is the law of non- contradiction. This means that something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the
same way. In other words, two contradictory
statements cannot both be true. The third law of logic is the Law of Excluded Middle which says that a statement is either true or false.
“We are here” is a true statement. “The planet Mars is in my pocket” is not a true statement. Now, these laws, and others, are logical absolutes and they form the basis of rational discourse.

[BarnkleBob]

Lets consider Santa Clause, we know he wears a white beard, a red suit, lives at the North Pole, we know he is married, we even know the names of his reindeer... we know there are & have been many books written about him for centuries. Logic would deem that Santa exists, yet we all know that he is a myth... ! You would call me insane if I promoted Santa as a real entity... yet some people expect me to believe their version of the Santa myth... only the names have been changed to protect Santas privacy....

[Horn]

Santa is a bad choice, I'd much rather keep on the Lucifer topic.

As it is his season, and is too busy to be here and defend himself.


The red color of Satan that we commonly see most likely comes from Set (sometimes spelled Seth, Seteh or Sutekh) the evil Egyptian deity. Set was the ancient god of storms, darkness and chaos, and the Greeks associated Set with Typhon, the serpent monster and god of destruction.

http://mythsofchristianity.com/god-and-the-devil/the-image-of-lucifer/

[Spectrism]

LMAO... complete delusions & lies. No wonder the world is in the shape its in.... The invisible perfect man in the sky who somehow creates the evil invisible man who endlessly torments earths human inhabitants! Arrrg... whats wrong with this picture? Dont blame me "the devil made me do it!"

It's funny how you always twist what is given to you into a perverted image and then you mock the image as if that is your opponent's argument. I think they call that a straw argument.

What I see you doing is displaying your ignorance, lack of understanding, your love for perversion and excessive self-confidence like a drunk driving a car.

[Glass]

I'm still not sure where Lucifer went. I didn't mean his relevance in discussion. I meant quite literally could some one apprise me of the story, be it myth or otherwise as to what happened to him? Where did he go? Can some one "enlighten" me please?

[BarnkleBob]

Was Spectricsm created in G-ds image or was G-d created in Spectricsms image??? On another note, "From Babylon to Jerusalem, The genesis of the Old Testament" (a long historical read of ancient history rewritten into O.T.) http://www.campaigner-unbound.0catch.com/genesis_of_old_testament.htm

[Horn]

Can some one "enlighten" me please?

Not sure of his name, but I'm betting the guy with the arrow pictured below has that info.

http://www.democratic-republicans.us/images/royal-wedding-inverted-pentacle.jpg

[BarnkleBob]

Not sure of his name, but I'm betting the guy with the arrow pictured below has that info.

http://www.democratic-republicans.us/images/royal-wedding-inverted-pentacle.jpg

I'm betting none of them have anymore REAL info than we already have! Only 3 things I really know is that there is a G-d, I'm not him, and he ain't talking! The religions just make it up as they go.....

[joboo]

I'm betting none of them have anymore REAL info than we already have! Only 3 things I really know is that there is a G-d, I'm not him, and he ain't talking! The religions just make it up as they go.....

I nominate this post as the ultimate takeaway conclusion.

Strictly my personal opinion of course. I tried to verify with the big man upstairs, but he's giving me the silent treatment.

[BarnkleBob]

Bible Absurdities (cant make this stuff up) http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html

[7th trump]

I'm still not sure where Lucifer went. I didn't mean his relevance in discussion. I meant quite literally could some one apprise me of the story, be it myth or otherwise as to what happened to him? Where did he go? Can some one "enlighten" me please?
Glass...........Lucifer is actually held in chains in Heaven and over seen by the angel Michael. Lucifer's spirit is allowed to roam earth and influence the flesh. He'll be kicked here, in person, soon enough after he wages war in Heaven.
Lucifer's minions (those who claim they are part of the chosen tribes, but are not) arent able to keep the NWO from falling apart (we are beginning to see this happening now). They just cant keep it together. Soon after lucifer wages war in heaven which God kicks lucifer to earth..........the three WOES!
Heaven is quiet for one half hour, the time lucifer is on earth.
Thats five months our time.
Its all over at the 7th trumpet, the return of the King, Jesus Christ.

[BarnkleBob]

The word "Lucifer" ONLY appears ONCE in the entire KJV Bible. The Old Testament is derived from HEBREW, while LUCIFER is a Latin word meaning light bearer! So why was a Latin word employed to replace a Hebrew word? "The Lucifer Fraud" http://www.sanctusvesania.hubpages.com/hub/Jesus-Christ-IS-the-TRUE-Lucifer

[sirgonzo420]

The word "Lucifer" ONLY appears ONCE in the entire KJV Bible. The Old Testament is derived from HEBREW, while LUCIFER is a Latin word meaning light bearer! So why was a Latin word employed to replace a Hebrew word?

"God works in mysterious ways..." ?


;D

[BarnkleBob]

"God works in mysterious ways..." ?


;D

So do the translators & scribes! The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell? The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer." Why Lucifer? http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/luciferaproblemforchristianity.html

[Horn]

Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King"


Well if there's one thing that should be translated clearly its who the opposition is, this is not perfect at all.

Sounds more like a good cop & bad cop creating a 3rd cop to place blame on when it goes infront of the judge...

[BarnkleBob]

Well if there's one thing that should be translated clearly its who the opposition is, this is not perfect at all.

Sounds more like a good cop & bad cop creating a 3rd cop to place blame on when it goes infront of the judge...
Indeed a literal biblical translation is Jesus=Lucifer=Satan! Sounds crazy but its in the KJV text....

[BarnkleBob]

Indeed a literal biblical translation is Jesus=Lucifer=Satan! Sounds crazy but its in the KJV text....

Venus is a dual entity in mythology, as the morning star it is masculine while in the evening it is female! Personally it appears to be pious fraud by deceivingly referencing the Christos & Lucifer both as the morning star, seems logical that Adam Kadmon is represented by the morning star, as later in the day (evening), the female qualities are derived... the Adam & Eve myth emerges...

[7th trump]

So do the translators & scribes! The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell? The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer." Why Lucifer? http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/luciferaproblemforchristianity.html

I know satans works when I see it.

Why are you attempting to instill doubt Barnklebob?
Are you a none beleiver looking for company?
Satans looking for all the company he can deceive when he goes into the pit.

The point is Bob the original manuscripts dont say "lucifer".......the original language translates to "morning star".
satan is referenced by a host of names........lucifer, the old dragon, the morning star, the serpent, ect.
God uses the phrase "morning star" because satan wanted to be in Christ position as king.( thats what brought satan down....his ego, pride and desire to be Christ)
Did you read the rest of Isaiah 14?........it becomes very clear what satan intention was!
satan will never be Christ nor as bright as the sun, he's a weak glimmer of reflected light from a star compared to Christ as the sun.
Christ defeated satan.......end of story!

So why are you Barnklebob making this into a doubting game?
Isaiah 14-12 no matter what you would you use to identify satan gets the point across.
Yes "lucifer" is added into Isaiah 14-12, but the translation is more clarified by doing so.....its not a sin!
If you notice "morning star" is still intact, its not replaced!
What is a sin is taking away from the translation by inject something to change the word of God. By adding in "lucifer" the passage is not changed.

[Horn]

It must be a codified reference to their one true religion.

Greet the Morning Star.

4150

[Spectrism]

BarnakleBob is a tool of the devil.

I was on a long drive today and was talking with my Father. I was thinking about BB and his lying rants. BB and Horn (among others) try to make God out to be unjust, capricious, foolish, childish, unfaithful, wicked, stupid, hateful, mean, delighting in torture of His creation and many other lies from the Deceiver.

I looked into the heart of my Father and saw: love, compassion, mercy, longsuffering, patience, faithfulness, purity, holiness, perfection, attention to the smallest detail, unbounded in capability yet self-bound by His own word and honor, beauty, power, authority, wisdom. I thought about BB's god and what we would have if BB was correct in his assessment of God. It was a moment that drove me to worship my Creator and Messiah.... a time of thankfulness that my God is all the things He has shown me and that BB is just a delusional tool of the devil.

I saw the blessings laid before all of us and the freedoms allowing us to choose who we will worship. And there was the great delusion of those who would bite the hand that feeds them; mock the One who provides for them; slander the only One who really cares for them.

Anyone who follows along with BB has NOTHING to live for and less to die for. Pitiful life and hereafter. So with these hard words I ask, can you handle the truth?

[Horn]

BB and Horn (among others) try to make God out to be unjust, capricious, foolish, childish, unfaithful, wicked, stupid, hateful, mean, delighting in torture of His creation and many other lies from the Deceiver.

Your Book, is not God.

Nor does it have anything to do with such.

[7th trump]

Hey Spec!
You and I both know you can easily out maneuver these guys with your eyes closed.
Why cast your pearls before these two swine?

I bet BB doesnt even know the latin translation for "lucifer" is "light bearer", not babylonian king. "Light bearer" fits in with "morning star". All we know from BB, even if BB did consult a hebrew scholar, is we dont know what kind of scholar was he?
1. Was this guy a Biblical scholar-
2. Or historical

[Glass]

All we know from BB, even if BB did consult a hebrew scholar, is we dont know what kind of scholar was he?
1. Was this guy a Biblical scholar-
2. Or historical

I'm going to say "historical". Quoting prophesy as history. Only a historian would be so arrogant as to assume an ancient record automatically constitutes a historical record. Of course purposes must be served.

[joboo]

Everyone finds comfort, and deep conviction, in their hobbies. If they didn't they wouldn't do it. It helps a lot to understand how human psychology works.

Everyone has different hobbies, and different ways of perceiving reality. Collecting my little ponies would seem like a horrific evil reality to some.

What's the point?

Someone is different, and they have different interests so they are evil? That's just total high and mighty double speak.

Lots of good people in this world aren't glued to a religious construct. A lot.

"If you don't do this you're a ____ " is all is really being said. So What? It doesn't even mean anything.

They're going to hell? The place does not exist. Without proof of any kind there is no moral high ground. What hell. Where is this hell? Not one single person that has ever lived has any idea. Zero. But forget about that reality. It's real! and now I'm going there for thinking this way. Sounds like kids playing games in the backyard mentality.

If someone feels uneasy without the prospect of an afterlife, who's problem is that?

Aside from the "be a good person" aspects (which is really great), It's just a bunch of jumbled words to espouse some kind of superiority complex by saying someone is doomed if they don't do something a certain way.

Silliness.

The problem is now that I've said all that, it can't ever be agreed upon as it deconstructs an extremely deeply held core belief on one side, so it bounces back, and forth. It's too disturbing to think about. Albeit the atheist side will find it far less disturbing because there is no life, and death world changing commitment involved. A good question to be asked is getting too attached to a notion a good thing. At what point does relentless infatuation become detrimental in any capacity?

[vacuum]

BarnakleBob is a tool of the devil.

I was on a long drive today and was talking with my Father. I was thinking about BB and his lying rants. BB and Horn (among others) try to make God out to be unjust, capricious, foolish, childish, unfaithful, wicked, stupid, hateful, mean, delighting in torture of His creation and many other lies from the Deceiver.

I looked into the heart of my Father and saw: love, compassion, mercy, longsuffering, patience, faithfulness, purity, holiness, perfection, attention to the smallest detail, unbounded in capability yet self-bound by His own word and honor, beauty, power, authority, wisdom. I thought about BB's god and what we would have if BB was correct in his assessment of God. It was a moment that drove me to worship my Creator and Messiah.... a time of thankfulness that my God is all the things He has shown me and that BB is just a delusional tool of the devil.

I saw the blessings laid before all of us and the freedoms allowing us to choose who we will worship. And there was the great delusion of those who would bite the hand that feeds them; mock the One who provides for them; slander the only One who really cares for them.

Anyone who follows along with BB has NOTHING to live for and less to die for. Pitiful life and hereafter. So with these hard words I ask, can you handle the truth?

Your position and his position here aren't necessarily at odds.

For example, imagine if we are conquered and 90% of us are killed by the psychopaths. They eventually have their one world system and they develop advanced technologies. 1000 years from now they have gained super technology and they decide to go to some random planet, teraform it, and genetically engineer a life form to inhabit it. Then they take a tribe and give them prophesies, get them to kill a bunch of people, make them worship themselves, and just do whatever they want. They give them books saying they are the creators and God.

Well, the situation is one where you have a true God and a fake god (who claims to be God but isn't). The universe and nature itself, the spiritual connection, they all point to the true God, but the fake god tries as much as possible to confuse and trick the inhabitants. Of course real truth is thoroughly mixed with the false aspects, because the inhabitants would otherwise reject what they are told. The inhabitants are advanced, spiritual lifeforms (what would the fun be with non-spiritual lifeforms worshiping you?).

So whenever BB talks about all the negative characteristics you mentioned, he's probably talking about the fake god, whereas the good characteristics you mention belong to the real God. It really comes down to what your eyes, ears, hands, mind, and feelings tell you. You can't just go into autopilot mode and let holy books replace your natural faculties.

[Spectrism]

Some of you are still locked into the humanist paradigm. It is an easy trap to fall into. I once lived there. And I have spoken with devout moslems who were compelled by their beliefs in allah and mohammad. They sincerely believed and would die for their beliefs. That alone is not a strong enough argument. Many die in delusion giving their lives for their beliefs. So, yes- it is true that most religions, as a minimal are false. It is then easy to suspect that all beliefs are false.

But are all beliefs false? It depends on the object of your beliefs. The thing you believe in makes all the difference in the world. Believe in the wrong thing and no matter how sincere you are, you are lost.

This is why I get so angered by these wicked liars who seek to destroy the testimony of the bible. Their work is to separate other men from the object of faith in God. Yashuah is the Word which was made flesh. He is the only true object of our faith. We won't have to wait thousands of years to see Him. We are near the end of our days. The signs on the earth and in the sky were foretold by the God of the bible. The devil is working to discredit these things with lying "scientists" preaching the religion of global warming. Those who have ears to hear had best get straight soon. Time is short.

[joboo]

Ultimately, what really matters, is if you find a system that makes you a better more loving person at peace with yourself, and those around you, go with it 100%, and don't look back.

[Horn]

Ultimately, what really matters, is if you find a system that makes you a better more loving person at peace with yourself, and those around you, go with it 100%, and don't look back.

Do you think God would like you to follow a system or book, a connect the dots to life, if you will?

There is no system.

And with certain indoctrinated systems that include "burn & destroy" you might want to take pause and second glance.

[Glass]

Often little children and even big children as it happens are told scary stories. Sometimes those stories are for entertainment purposes only. The Teller and Tellee want to be scared to some degree of witless. Sometimes those stories are told as a lesson, and they are not scary because they scare the listener, they are scary because of the stories outcome.

Sometimes people are told scary stories to keep them away from that thing. Fear keeps them away from it. Fear keeps them from investigating it. Fear keeps them from understanding what the thing is sometimes. A big DANGER sign might get peoples attention. It might also be all they need to look no further.

There are a lot of books with scary stories. Questions is, who wrote the story and why did they write it the way they did? Did they have an agenda? Do they want to scare you away from something? Stop being scared Horn. There is no reason to be. On the otherhand there might be a reason to be scared of other things. Especially when you can see those other things and their affects directly.

[Horn]

Stop being scared Horn. There is no reason to be. On the otherhand there might be a reason to be scared of other things. Especially when you can see those other things and their affects directly.

Yes, we've all seen their effects directly, haven't we, Glass?

For the past 2000 years the human race has been subjected to the books of fantasy demons, and supposed afterlife judgement by estranged offworld God(s).

The best way to rid yourself of those false fears is to see them for what they are, and what they are is false.

Insanity/Fear is repeating that same story over and over again and expecting different results.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7s4oBt-4lw

[Serpo]

I'm still not sure where Lucifer went. I didn't mean his relevance in discussion. I meant quite literally could some one apprise me of the story, be it myth or otherwise as to what happened to him? Where did he go? Can some one "enlighten" me please?

When they started reruns of I love Lucy,well that's when he took off,hasn't been seen since,but the luciferians still live in hope,like a lot of religions,dead relics of a by gone age,hahaha

Get with it,live for today..........

[Serpo]

Ultimately, what really matters, is if you find a system that makes you a better more loving person at peace with yourself, and those around you, go with it 100%, and don't look back.


ok then I have,it's called no system

[Serpo]

Amazing you guys are still at it,but what happens to me with too much intellectualism is that it stuffs up my head too much and I get to miss the relevant bits of everyday life which in the end is the meaning of existence and not continual prater which is intellectualism.

.Pol Pot would of known what to do with you guys .

[undgrd]

It's a shame Gaillo decided to leave us. I think he would have been interested in participating in this thread.

[Spectrism]

It's a shame Gaillo decided to leave us. I think he would have been interested in participating in this thread.

Yeah, he would. I would have been banned 3 times already.

[undgrd]

I don't think he would have banned anyone. I haven't seen any real personal attacks. IMO, this thread has stayed rather civil considering the topic

+1 internets for all participants.
;-)

[BarnkleBob]

Its quite e-z to see who & what destroyed the American REPUBLIC & altered it to mob rule a.k.a. democracy. It is also axiomatic to realize why it is now failing! The Ten Commandments along with the contemporary "Bill of Rights" (first 10 amendments) attempt to codify "rights," both attempt to define right & wrong, yet their is something sinister behind these codifications, namely "when a right is accepted there is a corresponding duty"... IOW rights create duties! When one religious group captures a democracy they determine the sociopolitical, socioeconomic & the legal structure of the jurisdiction. IOW they as a group & hive mind determine what is right & wrong. If they find my actions or speech to be unacceptable to THEM, they punish me & I am forced to take it... but LOGICALLY they are transmitting to me that I HAVE NO RIGHTS! Therein lays the seeds of their destruction, since I have no rights, I have no duties, and w/o rights & duties they have lost the ability to censor or regulate me!

[7th trump]

Its quite e-z to see who & what destroyed the American REPUBLIC & altered it to mob rule a.k.a. democracy. It is also axiomatic to realize why it is now failing! The Ten Commandments along with the contemporary "Bill of Rights" (first 10 amendments) attempt to codify "rights," both attempt to define right & wrong, yet their is something sinister behind these codifications, namely "when a right is accepted there is a corresponding duty"... IOW rights create duties! When one religious group captures a democracy they determine the sociopolitical, socioeconomic & the legal structure of the jurisdiction. IOW they as a group & hive mind determine what is right & wrong. If they find my actions or speech to be unacceptable to THEM, they punish me & I am forced to take it... but LOGICALLY they are transmitting to me that I HAVE NO RIGHTS! Therein lays the seeds of their destruction, since I have no rights, I have no duties, and w/o rights & duties they have lost the ability to censor or regulate me!

Show me where the Bill of Rights are codified!

I'm betting you don't have a clue between the Bill of Rights and Civil Rights do you?
You know the difference between the two set of Rights BB?
I'm betting you don't and I'm not a betting kind of guy either.

Civil rights of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 are codified........the Bill of Rights are not.........and neither are the Ten Commandments!

You capabilities of reading law is like your incapability of comprehending the Bible.

[BarnkleBob]

Lets look at the contract that is being employed to force a Xian world view on America. A contract is a contract only if it is valid & unbroken! Matthew 24:34 "*this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." Numbers 32:13 defines a generation as 40 yrs. Contract failure! Mark 11:24-25, Failure, John 14:13-19, 15:16, 16:23-28 Failure! On these principles alone the contract is null & void ab initio!

[BarnkleBob]

I suspect the reason none of the above can be truthfully admitted is due to you defining yourself around a faulty contract, which logically would make you null & void ab initio too....

[BarnkleBob]

"A 7-year-old boy was beaten to death by his
parents last week after he failed to read the Bible and do his homework" http://www.lvsun.com/news/2012/dec/03/mother-stepfather-arrested-beating-death-7-year-ol/ and some of you have the nerve to call me evil because I will not kneel down to a 5000 year old psychopathetic blood lusting desert dwelling ancient G-d... and his make believe Messiah that is correcting all the ills that the psycho god blamed mankind for... I'm neither Hebrew or Arab, I would be either insane or serriously misled via fraud to assume a 3rd party security interest in such nonsense!

[LuckyStrike]

5000 year old psychopathetic blood lusting desert dwelling ancient G-d...

Hmm I seem to recall a group of people who used G-d.......

Come to my thread if you want a debate, if you aren't afraid of me destroying your BS.

[Spectrism]

Its quite e-z to see who & what destroyed the American REPUBLIC & altered it to mob rule a.k.a. democracy. It is also axiomatic to realize why it is now failing! The Ten Commandments along with the contemporary "Bill of Rights" (first 10 amendments) attempt to codify "rights," both attempt to define right & wrong, yet their is something sinister behind these codifications, namely "when a right is accepted there is a corresponding duty"... IOW rights create duties! When one religious group captures a democracy they determine the sociopolitical, socioeconomic & the legal structure of the jurisdiction. IOW they as a group & hive mind determine what is right & wrong. If they find my actions or speech to be unacceptable to THEM, they punish me & I am forced to take it... but LOGICALLY they are transmitting to me that I HAVE NO RIGHTS! Therein lays the seeds of their destruction, since I have no rights, I have no duties, and w/o rights & duties they have lost the ability to censor or regulate me!

You sure have a short memory... or no knowledge of history. It is when those 10 commandments started getting treated as you are treating them, that this country fell apart. I am amazed that you have the blindness to trumpet such nonsense!

[BarnkleBob]

@ Lucky Strike, 7th Trump & Spectricism.... John 14:14 "If ye shall ask ANYTHING in my name, I will do it." The foregoing is also restated in Mark 11:24, John 15:7, 15:16, 16:23... I am not going to debate on absurdities, therefore I am issueing each of you a challenge. If you can via prayer (supra) convert me to a Christian & Christianity in 24 hours, I will openly apologize that I am in error to each of you in the forum for 7 days straight by creating a new apology thread on each day. If I am not converted within the 24 hour period, each of you must apologize to me that you are in error and that your cherished beliefs are a fraud employing the same above criteria... compared to moving mountains, this is a small feat. I'm anxiously awaiting you response!

[BarnkleBob]

SILENCE. The state of a person who does not speak, or of one who refrains from speaking. 2. Pure and simple silence cannot be considered as a consent to a contract, except in cases when the silent person is bound in good faith to explain himself, in which case, silence gives consent.....

[Horn]

You sure have a short memory... or no knowledge of history. It is when those 10 commandments started getting treated as you are treating them, that this country fell apart. I am amazed that you have the blindness to trumpet such nonsense!

I'm gonna step a little further back in history (as you knew I would) and point to Manifest Destiny, which upon further investigation bears with it many of the same indoctrinated principals as your "good" book. Thus tithing to it the notion that all people, places, and things are better off with our outside & injected values, thus became a part and infused into the collective consciousness of the U.S.

The counter effect thesis in summation "a turning away from true religion of freedom"., and commenced upon at the same time as the United States inception/foundation.


Historian William E. Weeks has noted that three key themes were usually touched upon by advocates of Manifest Destiny:



the virtue of the American people and their institutions;
the mission to spread these institutions, thereby redeeming and remaking the world in the image of the United States.; and
the destiny under God to do this work.


The origin of the first theme, later known as American Exceptionalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Exceptionalism), was often traced to America's Puritan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritan) heritage, particularly John Winthrop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Winthrop)'s famous "City upon a Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_upon_a_Hill)" sermon of 1630, in which he called for the establishment of a virtuous community that would be a shining example to the Old World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_World). In his influential 1776 pamphlet Common Sense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_%28pamphlet%29), Thomas Paine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine) echoed this notion, arguing that the American Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution) provided an opportunity to create a new, better society:
We have it in our power to begin the world over again. A situation, similar to the present, hath not happened since the days of Noah until now. The birthday of a new world is at hand...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

[chad]

i just read this thread for the first time.

it appears my initial suspicions about bb and those "from the other board" were spot on after all.

[Horn]

i just read this thread for the first time.

it appears my initial suspicions about bb and those "from the other board" were spot on after all.

Well your awfully late, and what were your initial suspicions, censorship of investigative thought tardiness?

[Libertarian_Guard]

i just read this thread for the first time.

it appears my initial suspicions about bb and those "from the other board" were spot on after all.

Since I am unable to interpert you subconcious thoughts, WTF are you talking about?

[chad]

this thread does not appear to me to be posted for the purpose of furthering intellectual discussion on religion. it appears to me to be a thread posted for the sole purpose of agitating some people. i see some people have turned it in to a genuine intellectual discussion, but that doesn't appear to be it's original intent. but whatever, i'm not the thread police. i'm just some guy with an opinion, and there it is.

[Horn]

this thread does not appear to me to be posted for the purpose of furthering intellectual discussion on religion. it appears to me to be a thread posted for the sole purpose of agitating some people. i see some people have turned it in to a genuine intellectual discussion, but that doesn't appear to be it's original intent.

This is exactly how I feel about the Bible.

So the suspicion of people from the other forum is that they are agitators towards some unforeseen end?

or prophesied end?

[Spectrism]

A little hint for you: instead of making a series of posts of single paragraphs, why not post them all in one shot? And, there is an edit function for the dribbling thoughts that come in. Now, speaking of dribbling...


Lets look at the contract that is being employed to force a Xian world view on America. A contract is a contract only if it is valid & unbroken! Matthew 24:34 "*this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." Numbers 32:13 defines a generation as 40 yrs. Contract failure! Mark 11:24-25, Failure, John 14:13-19, 15:16, 16:23-28 Failure! On these principles alone the contract is null & void ab initio!

You clearly ignored the context. He spoke of the end of the world... the end of days. And He tied in some signposts to know when THAT generation would be. I cannot say for certain but it is likely that the fig tree indicated Israel. It is possible that in 1948 or some time thereafter when Israel blooms, is the time that the clock starts ticking again.

Also, you 40 year generation proposition fails to take into account that this is not talking about generation to generation- or the likely span of life before the new group is birthed. No! It is talking about the end of days and the LIFESPAN of man AT THAT GENERATION! That would be 70 years.

Further, this is NOT a contract. You cannot box God into your little contract scheme and think your insane ramblings control the God of Creation.




I suspect the reason none of the above can be truthfully admitted is due to you defining yourself around a faulty contract, which logically would make you null & void ab initio too....

Nobody accepted your silly contract so the only thing null and void is the mist between your ears.

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectrism... I imagine your cretin tongue follows you whereever you go! There is a challenge issued to you on thread #449... are you FAITHFUL enuff to accept it?

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectrism... "What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive and ye shall have them." Mark 11:24.... Come on, take the challenge, lets test it for fact or fiction!

[singular_me]

damn, I have missed a lot... thanks for keeping up with subject... wont have the time to reply more until next week. Too busy...

thanks to BB for responding with biblical verses in agreement with his point of view.

[Spectrism]

@Spectrism... I imagine your cretin tongue follows you whereever you go! There is a challenge issued to you on thread #449... are you FAITHFUL enuff to accept it?


SILENCE. The state of a person who does not speak, or of one who refrains from speaking. 2. Pure and simple silence cannot be considered as a consent to a contract, except in cases when the silent person is bound in good faith to explain himself, in which case, silence gives consent.....

LOL... don't flatter yourself. I ignore many of your posts. When I see one post after another I go to every third or fourth. I just happened to skip over your "challenge". Let's take a look at your brilliant challenge.

Funny how you should decry the silence. I bet you get a bucketful of silence when you mock God and expect an answer from Him.




@ Lucky Strike, 7th Trump & Spectricism.... John 14:14 "If ye shall ask ANYTHING in my name, I will do it." The foregoing is also restated in Mark 11:24, John 15:7, 15:16, 16:23... I am not going to debate on absurdities, therefore I am issueing each of you a challenge. If you can via prayer (supra) convert me to a Christian & Christianity in 24 hours, I will openly apologize that I am in error to each of you in the forum for 7 days straight by creating a new apology thread on each day. If I am not converted within the 24 hour period, each of you must apologize to me that you are in error and that your cherished beliefs are a fraud employing the same above criteria... compared to moving mountains, this is a small feat. I'm anxiously awaiting you response!

You really don't understand what a conversion is!!! It is a joint agreement between a sovereign God and His creature, made with the ability to chose acceptance or rejection. How is it that you would so ignorantly ask someone to step between you and God, and challenge God to override the free choice He gave you?

The fraud is the one you are listening to... the one who owns you.... the one who will make you his prison bitch in hell.

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectrism.. I knew a cretin like you (Roman 1:29-32) would weasel out when confronted with reality. "If ye shall ask ANYTHING in my name, I will do it" John 14:14... "Anything" (supra) includes my challenge.... Sheesh I thought 24 hrs was more than adequate, do you require more time?

[Horn]

The fraud is the one you are listening to... the one who owns you.... the one who will make you his prison bitch in hell.

Weren't these words enough to convert you, Bob? They're straight from the lips of piety...

Your request to be converted is lopsided,

it would be foolish to presume they don't work with the same weapons to curse that the witches do.

[BarnkleBob]

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. Mark 11:24-25... Ok maybe conversion was a bit much for you, I dont have a mountain, its more of a hill... same challenge, move the hill and I will believe you! The hill should be easier than a mountain too...

[Santa]

Bob, it seems as if you're having a serious spiritual/existential crisis. Has someone that you love left you recently? I don't know, I'm not trying to be a wise guy. You don't have to answer that question. I'll pray for you, anyway. What do I have to lose?

[Spectrism]

@Spectrism.. I knew a cretin like you (Roman 1:29-32) would weasel out when confronted with reality. "If ye shall ask ANYTHING in my name, I will do it" John 14:14... "Anything" (supra) includes my challenge.... Sheesh I thought 24 hrs was more than adequate, do you require more time?

Salvation is not given to the clever, for then only the smart ones would be saved. It is not given to the physically strong because then the weak and infirm could never gain it. Salvation does not belong to the crafty and clever for even the devil would qualify for it. Salvation comes from faith. It is the trust in Messiah that runs deepr than blood. It is born out of a love for the truth and an acknowledgement of a need that only God can fulfill.

My Father has already provided you everything you need for salvation (and conversion- as you say). You lose.

He provided His only-begotten son to die as the sacrificial Lamb so that all who would believe could be saved. If you are looking for someone to hold you captive and beat you until you submit, you are looking for the devil. You will find what you seek.



Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. Mark 11:24-25... Ok maybe conversion was a bit much for you, I dont have a mountain, its more of a hill... same challenge, move the hill and I will believe you! The hill should be easier than a mountain too...

Yes- your hill will be moved, but not yet, and not necessarily before you find the end to your mortal life. I can assure you that you will believe the God of Judgment when you stand before Him. But then you will be the offender and not His son. Your pride and mocking will freeze in your veins when you see the real PERSON of perfection in light brighter than the stars. What will be your excuse for rejecting His Son and the messengers He sent to you?

[sirgonzo420]

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. Mark 11:24-25... Ok maybe conversion was a bit much for you, I dont have a mountain, its more of a hill... same challenge, move the hill and I will believe you! The hill should be easier than a mountain too...


Your hill is no longer in the same place.

It has moved.

It was moving while you were typing your post, and it is still moving now.

[BarnkleBob]

"Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! "But you ask, 'What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?' "You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do," says the LORD Almighty, "I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won't have enough room to take it in! Try it! Let me prove it to you! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not shrivel before they are ripe," says the LORD Almighty." Malachi 3:8-11 ... Doesn't it seem really stupid that an all-powerful God claims he can bring food and grapes to the masses but he can't even feed himself?

[BarnkleBob]

Your hill is no longer in the same place.

It has moved.

It was moving while you were typing your post, and it is still moving now.

Indeed... from ancient supersticions & myths to reality!

[BarnkleBob]

The challenge however remains... show me proof of your faith, failure to do so means you dont believe your own beliefs! Now the rubber meets the pavement....

[BarnkleBob]

The challenge however remains... show me proof of your faith, failure to do so means you dont believe your own beliefs! Now the rubber meets the pavement....

Its either fact or fiction! Show time & I'm calling you out as either dellusional or frauds... Since there is no other means of proving your absurdities .... I issued the challenge... your up, let the balances weigh whom is wanting....

[LuckyStrike]

@ Lucky Strike, 7th Trump & Spectricism.... John 14:14 "If ye shall ask ANYTHING in my name, I will do it." The foregoing is also restated in Mark 11:24, John 15:7, 15:16, 16:23... I am not going to debate on absurdities, therefore I am issueing each of you a challenge. If you can via prayer (supra) convert me to a Christian & Christianity in 24 hours, I will openly apologize that I am in error to each of you in the forum for 7 days straight by creating a new apology thread on each day. If I am not converted within the 24 hour period, each of you must apologize to me that you are in error and that your cherished beliefs are a fraud employing the same above criteria... compared to moving mountains, this is a small feat. I'm anxiously awaiting you response!

He chooses you, you don't choose him.

You will continue on with your diatribe because you aren't chosen, you haven't been given eyes to see or ears to hear while others have, you are left outside the gate and oh so bitter.

PS. If I prayed for you it would be an imprecatory.

I still would like a straight up debate in my thread so I could show you for what you are.

[7th trump]

SILENCE. The state of a person who does not speak, or of one who refrains from speaking. 2. Pure and simple silence cannot be considered as a consent to a contract, except in cases when the silent person is bound in good faith to explain himself, in which case, silence gives consent.....
Hahahahahaha........ love it when I see these types playing the roles of king, prosecuter and judge huh....hahahahahahahaha!
This is why I wont play your "make up the rules as I go" game BB.

Growing up I witnessed Lucy pull the football away from Charlie Brown kicking it every time.......................you are predictable!

I'm not even going to attempt your silly challenge.
Its not me you have to answer to BB, and God doesnt put the responsibility of making you into a beleiver on anyone but themselves.....you are judged by your actions and your actions alone.
Repenting, if you really think about it, is really nothing but coming to a change of mind.
Theres no amount of convincing you when you dont want to be convinced..............challenge not accepted!
Heres the kicker about you Bb.....you know quite a bit about the Bible.....you just dont want to come to a change of mind.
You'd rather beleive in a lie.....when the truth fits!

Your challenge is obviously not to convince you.................its your challenge to unconvince me!

[BarnkleBob]

Hahahahahaha........ love it when I see these types playing the roles of king, prosecuter and judge huh....hahahahahahahaha!
This is why I wont play your "make up the rules as I go" game BB.

Growing up I witnessed Lucy pull the football away from Charlie Brown kicking it every time.......................you are predictable!

I'm not even going to attempt your silly challenge.
Its not me you have to answer to BB, and God doesnt put the responsibility of making you into a beleiver on anyone but themselves.....you are judged by your actions and your actions alone.
Repenting, if you really think about it, is really nothing but coming to a change of mind.
Theres no amount of convincing you when you dont want to be convinced..............challenge not accepted!
Heres the kicker about you Bb.....you know quite a bit about the Bible.....you just dont want to come to a change of mind.

Indeed I do... thats how I know your frauds... wolves... and wolves like sheep both despise the sheep dog!

[BarnkleBob]

Lucky Strike who are you supposed to play in this act? The big bad wolf? You gave a $2000.00 challenge on your web site..... why dont you take mine?

[7th trump]

Indeed I do... thats how I know your frauds... wolves... and wolves like sheep both despise the sheep dog!

Hahahahaha........do you claim to be caucasian?

[LuckyStrike]

Lucky Strike who are you supposed to play in this act? The big bad wolf? You gave a $2000.00 challenge on your web site..... why dont you take mine?

I just play the guy who is smarter than you.

Which $2000 challenge?

What is your challenge? To convert you? First off, it isn't in my power to convert you, secondly why the hell would I want to? I'm told to not cast my pearls before swine. The very fact that I address you at all has nothing to do with you, but rather for the visitors who may read my destruction of your strawmen.


Atheists are a funny group, they think they get to reject God when in reality God rejects them.

It's kind of like if I threw a party and invited GSUS and not you and you sat outside saying how stupid it was that anyone even thinks there is a party, surely LuckyStrike would not throw a party. You laughed at anyone who even thought they had an invitation to the party, the "invitations are a myth" you said just because you hadn't received yours. Meanwhile inside the party people laugh and pity the lunatic outside who thinks he is so smart he has "reasoned" himself sure that the very party they attend doesn't exist.

[BarnkleBob]

your a pretender... period.... quote... unquote.... and a liar... but I'm not cursing you... you have already done it to urself

[LuckyStrike]

your a pretender... period.... quote... unquote.... and a liar... but I'm not cursing you... you have already done it to urself

LOL, kickass rebuttal.

[BarnkleBob]

I just play the guy who is smarter than you.

Which $2000 challenge?

What is your challenge? To convert you? First off, it isn't in my power to convert you, secondly why the hell would I want to? I'm told to not cast my pearls before swine. The very fact that I address you at all has nothing to do with you, but rather for the visitors who may read my destruction of your strawmen.


Atheists are a funny group, they think they get to reject God when in reality God rejects them.

It's kind of like if I threw a party and invited GSUS and not you and you sat outside saying how stupid it was that anyone even thinks there is a party, surely LuckyStrike would not throw a party. You laughed at anyone who even thought they had an invitation to the party, the "invitations are a myth" you said just because you hadn't received yours. Meanwhile inside the party people laugh and pity the lunatic outside who thinks he is so smart he has "reasoned" himself sure that the very party they attend doesn't exist.

take the challenge or admit defeat... no sense in debate, I dont duel with unarmed victims

[LuckyStrike]

take the challenge or admit defeat... no sense in debate, I dont duel with unarmed victims

I think I have addressed your challenge, you just didn't like the answer.......

[BarnkleBob]

Spectricism, 7th Trump & Lucky Strike.... starring as Larry, Curly & Moe... a.k.a. the 3 stooges... hijacking good subject matter that deserves quality analysis is a sin! At least in my book...

[Rubberchicken]

If this thread makes it 100 pages I'll convert.

[Horn]

He chooses you, you don't choose him.

There is no choice now?

This is more horrible than brown communism...

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectrism,. 7th Trump & Lucky Strike " And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers." You are evil people & you dont even know it!

[Horn]

@Spectrism,. 7th Trump & Lucky Strike " And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers." You are evil people & you dont even know it!

Just forget about or put'em on ignore, Bob.

You are gonna get anymore Bible clarity from them than you can get from yourself. Matter of fact the each of them argues over the versus from time to time, as do all the different traditions. Its like the root of terrorist tactics, so you aren't going to get me to delve into the book any further either.

Give yourself a break & change your topic, or something.

[sirgonzo420]

@Spectrism,. 7th Trump & Lucky Strike " And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers." You are evil people & you dont even know it!

You do know that that is not a real Bible quote right?

Pretty good movie though.

[BarnkleBob]

@Horn... have you ever listened to "U.G krishnamurti ,What am i saying.." on youtube? very interesting stuff!

[7th trump]

You do know that that is not a real Bible quote right?

Pretty good movie though.
Hes been addressed as one who is not to be trusted...............doesn't surprise me nor would I put it past him he'd attempt using words from a movie and inject them as if they are Gods words.
There's a stern warning about taking away and adding to Gods words.

Just one more reason I wont play along with his silly game of trying to make me doubt the word of God.
His game is not about trying to make him a believer...........his game is his attempt of making believers into nonbelievers.

[7th trump]

For anyone who doesn't know who "U.G Krishnamurti" is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._G._Krishnamurti

Any wonder why BB is lost.......he listens to this mans OPINION.
Yep ......way to go BB!

[Horn]

@Horn... have you ever listened to "U.G krishnamurti ,What am i saying.." on youtube? very interesting stuff!

What is known does not take thought.

Yes, I also believe as Spectro does there,, that God has provided you everything at birth.

Well maybe his is version is from after someone puts water on your head... :)

Its just a constant "dueling" with ego after that, so as not to become numbed, dumb.

[BarnkleBob]

Maybe you should ask urself some questions like what did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.

[Horn]

What if they're such things that God doesn't control, and it is on some same cyclical clock as us?

Nothing is ever perfect is it?

[sirgonzo420]

Are you guys confusing God with the bearded-guy-in-the-sky character from the Bible?

[Horn]

Are you guys confusing God with the bearded-guy-in-the-sky character from the Bible?

What is it with this "perfect" picture of God, where do you get that polaroid from?

[sirgonzo420]

What is it with this "perfect" picture of God, where do you get that polaroid from?

God may not be perfect, but He's better than nothing!

;D

It could be said that God is as perfect as I am.

[Horn]

God may not be perfect, but He's better than nothing!

;D

It could be said that God is as perfect as I am.

Yes, but why I really love you is for your imperfections. lol!

[BarnkleBob]

For the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God. What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.

[sirgonzo420]

For the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God. What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.

Humans *are* obeying God, just like everything else (they don't really have a choice, just the illusion of such) - there is a Great Plan that is unfolding as we speak. This Great Plan is evidenced by the Earth in her orbit and literally every other event or display of karma (karma being the Law of Cause and Effect) that takes place. Atheisty-types can refer to the Laws of Physics or whatever Natural Laws they wish, if they have a problem with the word "God".

Perfect/imperfect are still attributes trapped in duality.

God, being beyond duality, is not "good" or "bad". He is the arena in which everything else takes place. God is the Whole. God is ISNESS.

As in the Biblical story of Genesis, Adam/Eve lose favor with "God" (the bible character) after eating fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, at which point they descended into duality, where people generally remain today.

The Universe is the ultimate exercise of mental masturbation.

It is God playing hide and seek.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Atheists are a funny group, they think they get to reject God when in reality God rejects them.




I have never before considered this. I've always thought of God as loving all men equally.