Why Jews cannot accept the New Testament

[BarnkleBob]

I'm with ya... the Gnostics believe that this reality was imperfect & created by the Demiurgos whose name has been Samael, Sakla, Jehova, etc.... they also believe this creation was a celestial error & that the TRUE G-d is in the act of correcting the error!

[Horn]

I'm with ya... the Gnostics believe that this reality was imperfect.... they also believe this creation was a celestial error & that the TRUE G-d is in the act of correcting the error!

And the reason for their eradication at Bible writing time, and also the reason for the structure of the Bible.

Its basically taking truth out of the heads of the masses, even after Reformation when it was put in their hands.

It was meant as a dictatorial bibliography, just as the Old Testament - a work in processional dictatorship.

[Horn]

It may have been a bad time for Constantine, and his ilk, or it could have been a time much like we are seeing today.

[Santa]

B-b, your argument is based on an entirely puerile interpretation of God.

The whole of the Universe, or God, is perfect because It/He/She exists infinitely.

Yet every part of the whole always becomes flawed when separated
because no individual part can exist independently from the Universe, from God.

The flaw, therefore, isn't in God, but in the separation from God.

Separating oneself conceptually from God is the same thing as separating oneself from Existence.

This concept of separation from Existence is represented by Death.

Separation from God is the original Sin.

But.... Death is impossible because separation from the Universe, from Existence, from God is impossible.

God Exists Forever, but death only exists in the concept of one's separation from existence.

[BarnkleBob]

I have literally worn out a bible & numerous note pads... most of the defects in the bible can be attributed back to Constantine & the Roman Church attempting to create a universal church & religion. They assembled history, myths, superstitions & other beliefs from the around the empire to create the bible, hence the many contradictions contained therein.. something for everyone. This was enforced under penalty of death...

[BarnkleBob]

Interestingly in study & research it seems that the Hebrews\Israelites didn't really exist.... hidden history seems to suggest that either the name and\or these people were invented! Where did they come from... were they Egyptians, Babylonians, Caananites, Hyksos, etc. http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

[Horn]

God Exists Forever, but death only exists in the concept of one's separation from existence.

How does one get to forever without Time to refer to,

unless Time and the universe are independent of each other?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0epRjfGLw


We're all God's children.

[BarnkleBob]

How do we know, independent of the bible, that Israel's presence in Egypt was preceded by an earlier presence in Palestine? Why is there no archaeological record of Israel or the Hebrew people prior to the thirteenth century BC? Why is there no extra-biblical evidence linking any specific Semitic tribes to the Hebrew people? And, why did the so-called "ten lost tribes" disappear from history without an archaeological trace of their prior existence? http://www.fontes.lstc.edu/~rklein/Documents/mosesone.htm

[Horn]

How do we know, independent of the bible, that Israel's presence in Egypt was preceded by an earlier presence in Palestine? Why is there no archaeological record of Israel or the Hebrew people prior to the thirteenth century BC? Why is there no extra-biblical evidence linking any specific Semitic tribes to the Hebrew people? And, why did the so-called "ten lost tribes" disappear from history without an archaeological trace of their prior existence? http://www.fontes.lstc.edu/~rklein/Documents/mosesone.htm

The answer is probably held in the book of Mormon colonization.

[Bigjon]

I was doing good by ignoring this thread, but I am not good, so...

I have a problem with ALL of these books "written"by god. God doesn't use words to write, but priests do.

I see god all around me and he doesn't say anything remotely like what the priests say... go to hell.

[Neuro]

I have literally worn out a bible & numerous note pads... most of the defects in the bible can be attributed back to Constantine & the Roman Church attempting to create a universal church & religion. They assembled history, myths, superstitions & other beliefs from the around the empire to create the bible, hence the many contradictions contained therein.. something for everyone. This was enforced under penalty of death...
I think you are right here. As I said before anything re historical Jesus that contradicted the official version was destroyed. That is why there are no historical records from contemporary historians re Jesus.

[sirgonzo420]

I think you are right here. As I said before anything re historical Jesus that contradicted the official version was destroyed. That is why there are no historical records from contemporary historians re Jesus.

For the most part this is likely true. It has, however, been alleged that there are records of Yeshua's travels in the East.

Since I was a child I've wondered what in the world was going on during the 18+ missing years of Christ's life.... perhaps the Eastern mystics (not wholly unlike the ones who foretold his birth from the appearance of the night sky) have known all along.

[BarnkleBob]

Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

[Santa]

Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

B-b, "The Grinch That Stole Christmas." at GSUS... :p

[Horn]

B-b, "The Grinch That Stole Christmas." at GSUS... :p

You are exempt from this current discussion due to your handle...

[BarnkleBob]

B-b, "The Grinch That Stole Christmas." at GSUS... :p

LOL....! heck I thought the post that Santa was the Egyptian god Set was the killer... but hey I can be the honorary Grinch!

[7th trump]

Interestingly in study & research it seems that the Hebrews\Israelites didn't really exist.... hidden history seems to suggest that either the name and\or these people were invented! Where did they come from... were they Egyptians, Babylonians, Caananites, Hyksos, etc. http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos
I asked you if you refer youself as being caucasian.

Now who were the people (ten tribes of twelve) who, after captivity, migrated over the Caucasus Mountains to settle Europe and brought Christianity and the Bible to the world?
Noooooooooo.........couldnt be a PARTICULAR light skinned people (Germans, Italians, French, Polish, Russian, Belgian, Swiss, American, British, Irish, Dutch, and so on) who the world reffers as CAUCASIAN for going over the CAUCASUS Mountains.

Your answer is right before you and you cant see them..........are you really that dense?

[Santa]

LOL....! heck I thought the post that Santa was the Egyptian god Set was the killer... but hey I can be the honorary Grinch!

No sparkly golden gifts for you on Christmas morning.

[Neuro]

Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm
I only read the beginning, but it seems the writer only give us two options for Jesus, either he was exactly like the Gospels portray, or he was somewhat like the gospels portray, and that there are no historical records that support neither. How about there are no historical records, because they always contradicted the official version that came about in the 4th Century, the gospels, and the Catholic church destroyed any historical evidence that contradicted their official version, after all they were pretty much in unquestioned power for 1500 years, with varying degrees of censorship over the centuries. Truth as discovered could have been seen as heresy at many times during these years.

When the Portuguese landed in Southern India in the 16th Century, they found the Indians practicing worship of Jesus, that was very different from their Catholicism. It is said that South India may have been christianed by Thomas. The Indians where converted to Roman Catholicism. It would be interesting to see what their original writings said, if anything still exists...

[BarnkleBob]

@Hoarder... actually its a good read a bit further into it.... strangley the O.T. coming messiah contradicts the Jesus figure as the messiah!

[Neuro]

I only read the beginning, but it seems the writer only give us two options for Jesus, either he was exactly like the Gospels portray, or he was somewhat like the gospels portray, and that there are no historical records that support neither. How about there are no historical records, because they always contradicted the official version that came about in the 4th Century, the gospels, and the Catholic church destroyed any historical evidence that contradicted their official version, after all they were pretty much in unquestioned power for 1500 years, with varying degrees of censorship over the centuries. Truth as discovered could have been seen as heresy at many times during these years.

When the Portuguese landed in Southern India in the 16th Century, they found the Indians practicing worship of Jesus, that was very different from their Catholicism. It is said that South India may have been christianed by Thomas. The Indians where converted to Roman Catholicism. It would be interesting to see what their original writings said, if anything still exists...

Apparently all pre-Portuguese Christian texts in India, where destroyed by the Portuguese/Vatican, even the accounts of the early Portuguese missionaries were destroyed:

Christian Theology in India
We know very little about the theology in the Indian Church during the early period. As to the times of Nestorian contact, Robin Boyd writes "We shall leave aside the question of the theology of the Indian Church in Nestorian times, as no recordings are available, noting merely that there is still a small Nestorian church in South India and that India has never ceased to be conscious of the ancient Nestorian associations."(R. H. S. Boyd, An Introduction to Indian Christian Theology Madras, CLS, 1969, p. 9.) Whatever records were available were destroyed by the Roman Catholic missionaries during the Portuguese period. About this Mundadan says:
Today there is no written pre-16th century record of the doctrinal theological position of St. Thomas Christians prior to their contact with the West in the 16th century. Even those books which the Portuguese writers of the 16th century examined and used for drawing their conclusions are not available today. Since the Portuguese suspected the presence of errors in the books, they all became casualties in the auto-da-fe programme launched by the Portuguese padroado authorities at the close of the 16th century and later. This leaves us without sufficient data to verify whether the Indian Christians had evolved a theology of their own. Recourse then has to be made to other sources of information, namely, ‘ the life, experience and tradition’, to form some idea of the pre-16th century views on Christianity in India. In other words, we have to find out what theology is reflected in the general outlook and religious mentality of the community, in their life, customs and traditions. (A. M. Mundadan, op.cit., pp. 492-93.)

From:
http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1553&C=1366

[BarnkleBob]

Esoteric hidden history indicates that there was a global trade system dating back 1000's of yrs. ago.... trade & wars spread culture & religions.

[BarnkleBob]

@7th Trump, message #517. The question posited was not WHERE they went, but "from WHERE did they come?" Prior to David the Hebrew language did not exist... hence, Abraham, Moses, etc. did not speak Hebrew, who were they REALLY?

[Spectrism]

The challenge however remains... show me proof of your faith, failure to do so means you dont believe your own beliefs! Now the rubber meets the pavement....


I always thought by your name that you were some crusty old codger with at least a fair measure of wisdom. Many of your emotional remarks are so childish I would hesitate to rank you as a high school grad.

Is it possible for someone not to believe what they believe? I know... your use of the term "beliefs" was meant to separate outward appearances from real beliefs. A hypocrite, for example, would profess certain things outwardly but denied them internally.


You don't seem to have any grasp of the concepts of beliefs, faith, proof or authority.



Its either fact or fiction! Show time & I'm calling you out as either dellusional or frauds... Since there is no other means of proving your absurdities .... I issued the challenge... your up, let the balances weigh whom is wanting....

So what? Call me anything you want. I need not prove anything to you just as God need not prove anything to you. We will all face a time of reckoning. I am at peace with what will happen at that time- on a grand scale, but still want to accomplish more. When the angels proclaim:
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and peace on earth, good will among men.
....what do you think that meant?



Mat 10:32 Then everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in Heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whoever denies Me before men, I also will deny him before My Father in Heaven.
Mat 10:34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.


take the challenge or admit defeat... no sense in debate, I dont duel with unarmed victims

I know. You are so masterful that we mere earthlings have no chance to battle your great wit. However, as silly as it sounds, I will answer you according to your idols, as it will seem, whereas I am answering according to what you cannot see.



Spectricism, 7th Trump & Lucky Strike.... starring as Larry, Curly & Moe... a.k.a. the 3 stooges... hijacking good subject matter that deserves quality analysis is a sin! At least in my book...

The fool declares in his heart that there is no god and yet proclaims the rules of god.



@Spectrism,. 7th Trump & Lucky Strike " And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers." You are evil people & you dont even know it!

Spoken like a true muslim.




Maybe you should ask urself some questions like what did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create?

You can pick dust out of your navel and wonder if that takes away from your intelligence.



Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else.

He already told us the answers for any who really cared to know. Some just prefer to engage in mindless prattle.



We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be.

You pursue perfection???? Tell us about this amazing quest.



If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.


Spoken like a tool of the devil. You make up your own definition of a word. You declare your own conditions of reality. And you export your little world on the universe as if you created it. Hilarious!



For the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God. What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.

The master finishes his painting with his signature. A beautiful work of art. It is placed in a frame and displayed in the most prominent part of the museum. He takes joy in his work as different angles of light shine varying layers of his carefully crafted work. The bum on the street looks in the doorway with anger and envy. The hobo was too lazy to work and had been recently expelled from the museum where he loitered. The hobo entered the museum the next day pretending to visit the exhibits. When he approached the master's painting, he pulled out a knife and slashed the unblemished canvass holding the perfect work.

"Ah! See?" he exclaimed. "It is not perfect after all. If it was perfect, it would not be corruptible."

When the master returned, he removed the painting from its place in brilliant light. He cut out a small section of his work that had not been sliced and remounted it on a smaller frame. He put a new signature on this smaller work, scribed a note on the back and took it home to be protected and cherished daily by himself.

The caretaker of the museum saw the smaller painting when he visited the master. He was sorry that his museum did not protect the original painting but as he watched the master enjoying the remnant of his work and seeing the extra work and writing on the back of the painting, he realized that this little painting was now more valuable than the original.

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectricism... again attempting to "preach from the pulpit," your nonsense has provoked much and of course it has sidelined many of the issues brought forth. You are are shilling the subject matter..

[BarnkleBob]

There is a good discussion @ the history forum concerning "where did the jews originate" http://www.historum.com/ancient-history/39606-where-did-jews-originate.html

[BarnkleBob]

The bible is a book of religion & theology, not documented history.... "The Origins of the Jews" - Part One
Written by Yossi Schwartz
In the light of the recent increase in anti-semitic activities in Europe and beyond, Yossi Schwartz in Jerusalem, looks at the origins of the Jewish people, separating myth from documented historical fact. http://www.tribes.tribe.net/anthropologyofreligion/thread/f111558d-e0a5-4b42-9c89-0ebecfc9b884

[Horn]

The NT is a retelling of Egyptian mythology... http://www.in5d.com/origins-of-christianity.html



Christianity is one of the newest religions, they took something from every previous religion.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFCZ-M6odw


And singular_me was debating before whether or not Christianity was the more evolved religion?

Overcoming the Ego Mind.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=y_GWgA_byzc&feature=endscreen


Santa was also telling us we shouldn't separate from God as if into a trinity, "it is childish"...?

[BarnkleBob]

Interestingly there are various versions of both history & theology... the theologians have erased much to support their versions... hypothetically 2000 yrs from now historians may ask "where did Americans come from?" We have no ancient history, only contemporary events... In this respect or perspective the Xians may be correct that America could be the new Israel. Tribes & multi-cultures amalgamating into a collective whole...

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectricism... per message #524, in answer... Mark 16:17-18; "17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Please drink some cyanide or hemlock, as an alternative maybe test your faith with the bite of a cobra or diamond back, let us know how it works out for ya!

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectricism.... here is a WRITTEN FACT: Deuteronomy 23:2 says that bastards can not attend church unto the tenth generation. If Jesus was spawned by Mary and Jehovah as the Bible claims then he is technically a bastard and should not be the leader of the church.

[Glass]

@Spectricism.... here is a WRITTEN FACT: Deuteronomy 23:2 says that bastards can not attend church unto the tenth generation. If Jesus was spawned by Mary and Jehovah as the Bible claims then he is technically a bastard and should not be the leader of the church.

Jesus isn't the leader of the church. He is merely the figurehead and sometimes the object of it.

[Spectrism]

@Spectricism... again attempting to "preach from the pulpit," your nonsense has provoked much and of course it has sidelined many of the issues brought forth. You are are shilling the subject matter..

Your "discussion" is nothing more than vain speculations and silly musings that cannot possibly be true. You slander christianity without a clue of what you say. You are the troll.



@Spectricism... per message #524, in answer... Mark 16:17-18; "17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Please drink some cyanide or hemlock, as an alternative maybe test your faith with the bite of a cobra or diamond back, let us know how it works out for ya!

I drink of places like this forum and the many toxic preachers with which you are enamoured. They cannot kill me as I am alive forevermore. You, however, cannot see life because the poisons keep you blind. I am bitten by many snakes and you cannot hurt me.



@Spectricism.... here is a WRITTEN FACT: Deuteronomy 23:2 says that bastards can not attend church unto the tenth generation. If Jesus was spawned by Mary and Jehovah as the Bible claims then he is technically a bastard and should not be the leader of the church.

I will watch you tell Him that when you are the focus of judgment. I will see you squirm when truth and reality stand undeniably in front of you and all your mad ravings are put to shame. I would rather be a mindless worm on that day than you.

The GOD who gave man a law for sinners so that they could peaceably live together and protect the line of Messiah is the same GOD and Creator who joined with the seed of Mary to conceive flesh from the Word of God. The sins of the father are passed on to the next generation in that it is the sin nature we inherit from our fathers. As such, it was impossible for a child born of a human father to be born without sin. The Messiah was not of human father and the mother was not raped. He was not a bastard but in fact the only true son.... the only son in the whole world without sin.

The poison you spew will eat your throat and the fangs with which you bite will be broken.

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectrism..IF I believed in the devil (Satan, Shaitan, ect.) I would believe with him being a LIAR that he (it\Demiurgos) would attempt to replace the real G-d.... he would tell you to drink poison, that prayers would be answered & he would serve you up a bastard messiah... Your Jesus figure lies & is a fraud per the scriptures! That would be the mark of El Shaitan\Demiurge.... it the reason everything is backwards!

[vacuum]

@Spectrism..IF I believed in the devil (Satan, Shaitan, ect.) I would believe with him being a LIAR that he (it\Demiurgos) would attempt to replace the real G-d.... he would tell you to drink poison, that prayers would be answered & he would serve you up a bastard messiah... Your Jesus figure lies & is a fraud per the scriptures! That would be the mark of El Shaitan\Demiurge.... it the reason everything is backwards!

How do we KNOW the scriptures are perfect/of divine origin? Obviously, we can't use the fact that the scriptures themselves say they are perfect because that's just circular logic.

Evidence:

A large percentage of earth's population believes they are perfect, and have for many centuries
Many principles and wisdom with the scriptures has proven true throughout the centuries
Cultures that believe in it seem to be the most productive and civilized
People who fundamentally base their lives on it seem to have better, more wholesome lives (but those who go too far seem to get some really bad effects sometimes)
It was probably taught by your family and community to you as a child
It makes sense to you, and you feel a personal connection to it because it describes deep personal things about yourself


This evidence seems to say that the scriptures are quite beneficial, but not necessarily perfect. There appears to be a negative side with those who read into it too much such as we see with some clergy and churches. Also, with such a large percentage of the world holding it in divine status, it has not solved many major global problems. In fact, it's been used to base wars off of. Furthermore, some things are taken literally, but as BB has shown, not all of it can be. How does one know where to make the distinction? This can't really be ignored...either all of it is literal or symbolic, or there is an unknown mixture.

So we see it's mostly good but with potentially bad aspects to it.

When we look at the evidence, lets say we think there's a 85 - 90% chance it's right. Then, we read the scriptures with that in mind and we notice that it says it is actually God's Word. Then we say it must be 100% right because we already had strong evidence it was correct, but upon closer inspection it says it's perfect. Then that 10 - 15% of twisted stuff in it can only be taken as truth, because of all the other factors I mentioned. But in reality, all the personal and empirical evidence only means that SOME or MOST of it is very good, but doesn't necessarily mean ALL of it is.

So what I'm saying here, based on the evidence, is it's an ancient super-document, mostly written by ancient super-men, but shouldn't necessarily be blindly/uncritically accepted/interpreted.

[BarnkleBob]

Jesus in John 14:12 & Mark 16:17-18 said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works that I do shall he also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." This implies that Jesus’ true followers should be able to routinely perform the following tricks: 1) cast out devils, 2) speak in tongues, 3) take up serpents, 4) drink poisons without harm, and 5) cure the sick by touching them and MANY other of Jesus’ "works". Curiously I have yet to see a Christian that can do any of the above on demand, even when directly challenged to prove their beliefs & so-called BLIND faith. Further I must ponder HOW different our world & reality would appear w\o this\these mental & social barriers....

[BarnkleBob]

In John 14:13-14 Jesus stated: "And whatsoever ye ask in my name I do, that the Father may be glorified in the son. If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it." In reality, millions of people have made millions of requests in Jesus’ name and failed to receive satisfaction. This promise or prophecy has failed completely. How many European Xians during WWI & WWII prayed in the name of Jesus to return to their families but instead were killed... Jesus is a LIAR & FRAUD... PURE EVIL!

[Horn]

Cultures that believe in it seem to be the most productive and civilized

4170

The chart above represents an approximate graph of the advancement of science through time. The Christian Dark Ages represents the only time in the history of Europe where scientific advancement not only halted but went backwards. The hole left by the Dark Ages bears the imprint of scientific intolerance. Imagine where scientific advancement would stand today if not for the scars left by Christianity.

http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/16778

[Neuro]

4170

The chart above represents an approximate graph of the advancement of science through time. The Christian Dark Ages represents the only time in the history of Europe where scientific advancement not only halted but went backwards. The hole left by the Dark Ages bears the imprint of scientific intolerance. Imagine where scientific advancement would stand today if not for the scars left by Christianity.

http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/16778
Those parabolic curves always ends well! Let's pray for humanitys continued existence, when the current parabolic curve in scientific advancement reaches its conclusion...

[joboo]

I voluntarily dropped out of this thread for a while.

Has anything been accomplished yet?

:)**

[Neuro]

I voluntarily dropped out of this thread for a while.

Has anything been accomplished yet?

:)**
Seek and ye shall find...

[joboo]

Seek and ye shall find...

That's what she said, and I don't even like fat chicks!

[Spectrism]

4170

The chart above represents an approximate graph of the advancement of science through time. The Christian Dark Ages represents the only time in the history of Europe where scientific advancement not only halted but went backwards. The hole left by the Dark Ages bears the imprint of scientific intolerance. Imagine where scientific advancement would stand today if not for the scars left by Christianity.

http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/16778

OK... think about this for even a millisecond. What is the measure of "Scientific Advancement"? LOL, it is quite an oxymoronic chart! Show the "science" of the data.

The dark ages were a time when the bible was sealed up in the vatican and kept from the common people. In fact, it was the release of the bible and the advent of the ability to mass-produce books through the printing press that opened up knowledge. The most common book printed was the bible.

Some clown wanted to make his personal prejudices sound scientific so he made a chart and fitted his selected data to it.

BTW- the dark ages were not led by bible-believing christians, but superstitious and power-hungry demon-possessed monsters.

[Horn]

BTW- the dark ages were not led by bible-believing christians, but superstitious and power-hungry demon-possessed monsters.

Any chance they were the same people writing & enforcing it?

[JDRock]

jmho...this is a thinly disguised attack on the new testament under the guise of exposing jew hatred of the same.
...eh...no comments?

[Horn]

...eh...no comments?

Seems there's as many problems with the Old Torah on this thread, as the New Torah.

Anyway its been twiced over in the same manner, probably better it died.

Oh and Spectro, still know I love you more for your imperfections. ;)

[BarnkleBob]

The research work of Mauro Biglino is focused on re- translating the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament of the Bible in a literal way, word by word, with an open mind, devoid of any theological dogma or prejudice, following a logical and rational path. The objective of the research is to verify what is truly written in the original Biblical text. The study and the research on the original Masoretic text of the Bible has lead Mr. Biglino to some staggering discoveries. http://www.maurobiglino.com/research.php

[BarnkleBob]

KJV Mark 12:38 "beware of scribes!"

[Glass]

In John 14:13-14 Jesus stated: "And whatsoever ye ask in my name I do, that the Father may be glorified in the son. If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it." In reality, millions of people have made millions of requests in Jesus’ name and failed to receive satisfaction. This promise or prophecy has failed completely. How many European Xians during WWI & WWII prayed in the name of Jesus to return to their families but instead were killed... Jesus is a LIAR & FRAUD... PURE EVIL!

No way to document or prove the above statement but of course that is the point of those types of statements.

Asking Jesus for next weeks lottery numbers doesn't count. But asking for comfort for an ill friend or peace from torment might get a result. Then there are these things called miracles. They happen. Documented sometimes, disbelieved often. So perhaps Jesus is able to tell the difference between a self centered want and a genuine need.

I don't think the real issue is whether God performs act, any acts at all. The problem is that there are people like you who worship satan and it is those beliefs that need to worry people because those beliefs manifest action, no matter how ineffective it is.

If you are atheist then you are already sidelined and your power goes to satan. Your inability or willingness to exercise it on your own and your rejection of god through your atheism is as good as being on the side of satan. You have been nuetered. Even if you don't believe, these people do and they act in his name and we have seen the consequences of that.

[BarnkleBob]

@Glass... I have a "get out of hell free" card & a YHVH decoder ring! Mark 3:28-29... "28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." Scriptures say I will be forgiven!

[Spectrism]

@Glass... I have a "get out of hell free" card & a YHVH decoder ring! Mark 3:28-29... "28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." Scriptures say I will be forgiven!

You don't know how to handle scripture.

[Horn]

Search for Holy Ghost on Google/Images revealed they are a helluva DJ dance mix duo from Brooklyn New York.

I believe pictured below was the original movement of the Holy Ghost, in lieu of the latter crossing the shoulders.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nFWUttV9PQc/TcJpiHwzS3I/AAAAAAAAHZw/QLVo7ppT6GA/s320/shhhh.jpg

[BarnkleBob]

@Spetricism....your a hoot!

[BarnkleBob]

Mark 7:10 "honor your mother & father." Matthew 5:17 Jesus says he came to fulfill the law, not change it! Matthew 10:34-39... "34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, an the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

[7th trump]

In John 14:13-14 Jesus stated: "And whatsoever ye ask in my name I do, that the Father may be glorified in the son. If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it." In reality, millions of people have made millions of requests in Jesus’ name and failed to receive satisfaction. This promise or prophecy has failed completely. How many European Xians during WWI & WWII prayed in the name of Jesus to return to their families but instead were killed... Jesus is a LIAR & FRAUD... PURE EVIL!

Spectrism is right about you BB. Not only can you NOT handle scripture you cant even understand it correctly.

John 14:13-14 says what ever you ask in the name of Christ THAT GLORIFIES THE FATHER he will do.
And to put a situation like war to make your point that Christ is a liar and fraud is without saying......just plain evil and discrediting.

You really are hell bent on showing everyone reading this thread how much of a complete idiot you really are.

[BarnkleBob]

Mark 7:10 "honor your mother & father." Matthew 5:17 Jesus says he came to fulfill the law, not change it! Matthew 10:34-39... "34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, an the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
I guess I must no be reading or interpretting this outright CONTRIDICTION correctly! Not only does the Decalog command "honor they mother & father" but Jesus himself implicitly states this @ Mark 7:10.... then @ Matthew 10:34-39 Jesus commands NOT TO HONOR they mother & father if they deny him! Alas Mark 7:10 "Whoever curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

[BarnkleBob]

No, what I see are people in complete denial of the truth... you have created your own interpretations to explain away all of the scribes errors & deficiencies... of course this has been programmed into your mimicking processes! no big deal, I fully understand brainwashing.

[BarnkleBob]

Yeshua Ha'Mashiac is a Messiah Priest, King, Warrior & Judge... not a criminal! Scripture says his name will be Immanuel, not Jesus...

[BarnkleBob]

Hate to also bust the Xian myth & dellusion that America was founded as a Xian nation... that too is a lie per "The Barbary Treaties" Article 11, Nov. 4, 1796, to wit: "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. http://www.avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

[gunDriller]

Why Jews cannot accept the New Testament


might have something to do with the fact that they tortured and murdered Jesus ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_Jesus_in_the_New_Testament


and that was before the most cancerous form of Judaism, Zionism.

[BarnkleBob]

Spectrism is right about you BB. Not only can you NOT handle scripture you cant even understand it correctly.

John 14:13-14 says what ever you ask in the name of Christ THAT GLORIFIES THE FATHER he will do.
And to put a situation like war to make your point that Christ is a liar and fraud is without saying......just plain evil and discrediting.

You really are hell bent on showing everyone reading this thread how much of a complete idiot you really are.

Really? Matthew 19:12 Jesus suggests that a follower should castrate himself (become a eunuch) for the Kingdom of heavens sake.... how sick is that???

[BarnkleBob]

might have something to do with the fact that they tortured and murdered Jesus ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_Jesus_in_the_New_Testament


and that was before the most cancerous form of Judaism, Zionism.

I dont know who is worse, the jews or the contemporary worshippers that hold the bible in such high esteem considering the God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16) , and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.

[Glass]

@Glass... I have a "get out of hell free" card & a YHVH decoder ring! Mark 3:28-29... "28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." Scriptures say I will be forgiven!

And here we get to the crux of your dilema and the purpose for this thread. Specifically:


Scriptures say I will be forgiven!

The scriptures say you will not under these circumstances. If you have made a deal and are not railing against the world because you see where this is going then, the scriptures would have comfort for you even in that circumstance but alas it is pretty clear on this point


But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

There's an old saying, "he who makes the most noise (on a topic) has the most to fear."

I think we might be getting close to the root of what you fear and what motivates you. Making bad deals and regretting it.

[7th trump]

I dont know who is worse, the jews or the contemporary worshippers that hold the bible in such high esteem considering the God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16) , and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.

Yeah...OK!
Heres Psalms 137-9 correctly interpreted.

Verse 9. Blessed is he who seizes your little ones, and dashes then against the rock. By little ones, or infants here are not understood infants, but falses springing up, for the subject there treated of is concerning Babylon, whereby are signified the falses of evil destroying the truths of good belonging to the church; the destruction thereof is signified by dashing them against the rock, the rock denoting the ruling false of evil, and to dash against denoting to destroy. They who abide in the literal sense of the Word, and think no further, may easily he induced to believe that he is called blessed who does thus with the children of his enemies, when, notwithstanding, this is an enormous crime; whereas it is hereby meant, that he is blessed who disperses the falses of evil springing up in the church, which are here signified by the infants of Babylon. AE 411.

Remember what I told you about "object " and "subject" BB?
Know and understand the object and subject of the verse you are trying to make insulting before you make an ass out of yourself.

Its clearly obvious who you work for.

[Santa]

Any exorcists in the house, tonight? :)

[BarnkleBob]

“a long habit of not thinking something wrong, gives it the superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.” --Thomas Paine

[Glass]

Any exorcists in the house, tonight? :)

You don't need an exorcist when God is in the house.

[Spectrism]

I guess I must no be reading or interpretting this outright CONTRIDICTION correctly! Not only does the Decalog command "honor they mother & father" but Jesus himself implicitly states this @ Mark 7:10.... then @ Matthew 10:34-39 Jesus commands NOT TO HONOR they mother & father if they deny him! Alas Mark 7:10 "Whoever curseth father or mother, let him die the death."


You twist words into false meanings. They really aren't that hard. But what we are seeing is your demonic desire to slander God. BTW- you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit because you call Him a liar.

So let's see what the verse really says, not what BarnakleBrains writes.

Mat 10:37 The one loving father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And the one loving son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

We see a clear comparison drawn here. Most people love their families. The Messiah says that love for God should be greater than this. No surprise.




No, what I see are people in complete denial of the truth... you have created your own interpretations to explain away all of the scribes errors & deficiencies... of course this has been programmed into your mimicking processes! no big deal, I fully understand brainwashing.

I bet you do.... sort of. Deception exists because people don't know they are being deceived.



Yeshua Ha'Mashiac is a Messiah Priest, King, Warrior & Judge... not a criminal! Scripture says his name will be Immanuel, not Jesus...

I typically try not to use the Greek aberration name. And it was not Yeshua. That is likely a Judaic slur against Messiah being sure to remove the name of the father YHWH- Yahuah from being spoken and written. Yahshuah or possibly even Yahuahshuah is the name of Messiah. It is also the name of Joshua.... but the J is pronounced as the English Y.



Hate to also bust the Xian myth & dellusion that America was founded as a Xian nation... that too is a lie per "The Barbary Treaties" Article 11, Nov. 4, 1796, to wit: "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. http://www.avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

There is no such thing as a "christian religion". Emmigrants from Europe sought a place that they could freely worship the God of Abraham, Issac and David. They wanted to be left alone from a state religion with freedom to commune with God directly. There is no need for any priests or kings other than Messiah. He is the only way, life and truth.

Notice this key sentence that describes that journey:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[Libertarian_Guard]

There is a vast empire governed by a monarch, whose conduct does but
confound the minds of his subjects. He desires to be known, loved,
respected, and obeyed, but he never shows himself; everything tends to
make uncertain the notions which we are able to form about him. The
people subjected to his power have only such ideas of the character and
the laws of their invisible sovereign as his ministers give them; these
suit, however, because they themselves have no idea of their master, for
his ways are impenetrable, and his views and his qualities are totally
incomprehensible; moreover, his ministers disagree among themselves in
regard to the orders which they pretend emanated from the sovereign
whose organs they claim to be; they announce them diversely in each
province of the empire; they discredit and treat each other as impostors
and liars; the decrees and ordinances which they promulgate are obscure;
they are enigmas, made not to be understood or divined by the subjects
for whose instruction they were intended. The laws of the invisible
monarch need interpreters, but those who explain them are always
quarreling among themselves about the true way of understanding them;
more than this, they do not agree among themselves; all which they
relate of their hidden prince is but a tissue of contradictions,
scarcely a single word that is not contradicted at once. He is called
supremely good, nevertheless not a person but complains of his decrees.
He is supposed to be infinitely wise, and in his administration
everything seems contrary to reason and good sense. They boast of his
justice, and the best of his subjects are generally the least favored.
We are assured that he sees everything, yet his presence remedies
nothing. It is said that he is the friend of order, and everything in
his universe is in a state of confusion and disorder; all is created by
him, yet events rarely happen according to his projects. He foresees
everything, but his foresight prevents nothing. He is impatient if any
offend him; at the same time he puts every one in the way of offending
him. His knowledge is admired in the perfection of his works, but his
works are full of imperfections, and of little permanence. He is
continually occupied in creating and destroying, then repairing what he
has done, never appearing to be satisfied with his work. In all his
enterprises he seeks but his own glory, but he does not succeed in being
glorified. He works but for the good of his subjects, and most of them
lack the necessities of life. Those whom he seems to favor, are
generally those who are the least satisfied with their fate; we see them
all continually revolting against a master whose greatness they admire,
whose wisdom they extol, whose goodness they worship, and whose justice
they fear, revering orders which they never follow. This empire is the
world; its monarch is God; His ministers are the priests; their subjects
are men.

[Libertarian_Guard]

When we wish to examine in a cool, calm way the opinions of men, we are
very much surprised to find that in those which we consider the most
essential, nothing is more rare than to find them using common sense;
that is to say, the portion of judgment sufficient to know the most
simple truths, to reject the most striking absurdities, and to be
shocked by palpable contradictions. We have an example of this in
Theology, a science revered in all times, in all countries, by the
greatest number of mortals; an object considered the most important, the
most useful, and the most indispensable to the happiness of society. If
they would but take the trouble to sound the principles upon which this
pretended science rests itself, they would be compelled to admit that
the principles which were considered incontestable, are but hazardous
suppositions, conceived in ignorance, propagated by enthusiasm or bad
intention, adopted by timid credulity, preserved by habit, which never
reasons, and revered solely because it is not comprehended. Some, says
Montaigne, make the world believe that which they do not themselves
believe; a greater number of others make themselves believe, not
comprehending what it is to believe. In a word, whoever will consult
common sense upon religious opinions, and will carry into this
examination the attention given to objects of ordinary interest, will
easily perceive that these opinions have no solid foundation; that all
religion is but a castle in the air; that Theology is but ignorance of
natural causes reduced to a system; that it is but a long tissue of
chimeras and contradictions; that it presents to all the different
nations of the earth only romances devoid of probability, of which the
hero himself is made up of qualities impossible to reconcile, his name
having the power to excite in all hearts respect and fear, is found to
be but a vague word, which men continually utter, being able to attach
to it only such ideas or qualities as are belied by the facts, or which
evidently contradict each other. The notion of this imaginary being, or
rather the word by which we designate him, would be of no consequence
did it not cause ravages without number upon the earth. Born into the
opinion that this phantom is for them a very interesting reality, men,
instead of wisely concluding from its incomprehensibility that they are
exempt from thinking of it, on the contrary, conclude that they can not
occupy themselves enough about it, that they must meditate upon it
without ceasing, reason without end, and never lose sight of it. The
invincible ignorance in which they are kept in this respect, far from
discouraging them, does but excite their curiosity; instead of putting
them on guard against their imagination, this ignorance makes them
positive, dogmatic, imperious, and causes them to quarrel with all those
who oppose doubts to the reveries which their brains have brought forth.
What perplexity, when we attempt to solve an unsolvable problem! Anxious
meditations upon an object impossible to grasp, and which, however, is
supposed to be very important to him, can but put a man into bad humor,
and produce in his brain dangerous transports. When interest, vanity,
and ambition are joined to such a morose disposition, society
necessarily becomes troubled. This is why so many nations have often
become the theaters of extravagances caused by nonsensical visionists,
who, publishing their shallow speculations for the eternal truth, have
kindled the enthusiasm of princes and of people, and have prepared them
for opinions which they represented as essential to the glory of
divinity and to the happiness of empires. We have seen, a thousand
times, in all parts of our globe, infuriated fanatics slaughtering each
other, lighting the funeral piles, committing without scruple, as a
matter of duty, the greatest crimes. Why? To maintain or to propagate
the impertinent conjectures of enthusiasts, or to sanction the knaveries
of impostors on account of a being who exists only in their imagination,
and who is known only by the ravages, the disputes, and the follies
which he has caused upon the earth.

[Libertarian_Guard]

SUPERSTITION IN ALL AGES

By Jean Meslier

1732


A ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST, WHO, AFTER A PASTORAL SERVICE OF THIRTY YEARS
AT ETREPIGNY IN CHAMPAGNE, FRANCE, WHOLLY ABJURED RELIGIOUS DOGMAS, AND
LEFT AS HIS LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT TO HIS PARISHIONERS, AND TO THE
WORLD, TO BE PUBLISHED AFTER HIS DEATH, THE FOLLOWING PAGES, ENTITLED:
COMMON SENSE.

[BarnkleBob]

"When Meslier died, there were found in his house three copies of a 633-page octavo manuscript in which the village curate denounces organized religion as "but a castle in the air" and theology as "but ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system". " http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Meslier I guess he didn'nt know how to read scripture either.....

[BarnkleBob]

"When Meslier died, there were found in his house three copies of a 633-page octavo manuscript in which the village curate denounces organized religion as "but a castle in the air" and theology as "but ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system". " http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Meslier I guess he didn'nt know how to read scripture either.....

No.... it must have been Satan....!

[BarnkleBob]

"In his Testament, Meslier repudiated not only the God of conventional Christianity, but even the generic God of the natural religion of the deists.[3] For Meslier, the existence of evil was incompatible with the idea of a good and wise God.[4] He denied that any spiritual value could be gained from suffering,[5] and he used the deist's argument from design against god, by showing the evils that he had permitted in this world.[6] To him, religions were fabrications fostered by ruling elites; although the earliest Christians had been exemplary in sharing their goods, Christianity had long since degenerated into encouraging the acceptance of suffering and submission to tyranny as practised by the kings of France: injustice was explained away as being the will of an all-wise Being.[7] None of the arguments used by Meslier against the existence of God were original, in fact, he derived them from books written by orthodox theologians in the debate between the Jesuits, Cartesians, and Jansenists:"

[Spectrism]

"When Meslier died, there were found in his house three copies of a 633-page octavo manuscript in which the village curate denounces organized religion as "but a castle in the air" and theology as "but ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system". " http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Meslier I guess he didn'nt know how to read scripture either.....


"In his Testament, Meslier repudiated not only the God of conventional Christianity, but even the generic God of the natural religion of the deists.[3] For Meslier, the existence of evil was incompatible with the idea of a good and wise God.[4] He denied that any spiritual value could be gained from suffering,[5] and he used the deist's argument from design against god, by showing the evils that he had permitted in this world.[6] To him, religions were fabrications fostered by ruling elites; although the earliest Christians had been exemplary in sharing their goods, Christianity had long since degenerated into encouraging the acceptance of suffering and submission to tyranny as practised by the kings of France: injustice was explained away as being the will of an all-wise Being.[7] None of the arguments used by Meslier against the existence of God were original, in fact, he derived them from books written by orthodox theologians in the debate between the Jesuits, Cartesians, and Jansenists:"

You write about a man who was part of a political organization that controlled governments and armies. His "theology" was study of politics not study of God. You must understand the context of writings of a blind man who has not taste of the truth, and relies on the testimony of devils to shape his worldview.

Your continued assault on christianity is indicative of what you harbor. You choose to keep demons and they make your life miserable. Even now they are crippling your fingers.

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectri... post #568 you wrote "There is no such thing as a "christian religion." PROVE IT!

[BarnkleBob]

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20 Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16 Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7 Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13 Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20 Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11 Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

[Libertarian_Guard]

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."


"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it."


Voltaire

[BarnkleBob]

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20 Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16 Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7 Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13 Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20 Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11 Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

As evidenced above Judeo-Xianity is just as violent as Islam....

[singular_me]

I have watched several videos about Jesus in India... cant seem to find my favorite as I type this, but this one looks okay. The problem is that if jesus isnt portrayed as the son or god or/and didnt die on the cross, the whole Bible falls apart. Again, to me it doesnt matter, as I do grasp cosmic/divine dualities which the Bible conveys in allegories. It remains nonetheless a great work - for the best and the worse. :) But overall, all religions do fragment more human psyches than realign them. Thats the aims of all dogmas.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNRLKDLJnX0

Jesus in India - Beyond Belief Documentary.
The life, Death and Tomb of Jesus are proofs that Jesus was only a Humble Prophet of God, Not the Son of God, Was Cricified but Survived Crucifixion, Migrated to Asia to teach the Lost Tribes of Isreal and Died like a Normal Human Being in Kashmir India.

Jesus In Kashmir (India) - Documentary by Indian Govt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Ecm4gMhiM
Jesus in India? -- BBC Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiy5uY3Iw2s


I only read the beginning, but it seems the writer only give us two options for Jesus, either he was exactly like the Gospels portray, or he was somewhat like the gospels portray, and that there are no historical records that support neither. How about there are no historical records, because they always contradicted the official version that came about in the 4th Century, the gospels, and the Catholic church destroyed any historical evidence that contradicted their official version, after all they were pretty much in unquestioned power for 1500 years, with varying degrees of censorship over the centuries. Truth as discovered could have been seen as heresy at many times during these years.

When the Portuguese landed in Southern India in the 16th Century, they found the Indians practicing worship of Jesus, that was very different from their Catholicism. It is said that South India may have been christianed by Thomas. The Indians where converted to Roman Catholicism. It would be interesting to see what their original writings said, if anything still exists...

[Horn]

I have watched several videos about Jesus in India...

Must be the evidence gravity signature left, from where his body rose up...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/world/10/goce_gravity_field/img/goce_gravity_field_786map.gif

Goce satellite views Earth's gravity in high definition


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8767763.stm

[BarnkleBob]

A friend of mine just got back from Kenya, where reportedly one of the tribal shaman can walk on water and take two boxes of Mrs. Pauls fish sticks & a pile of bread crumbs to feed thousands of hungry tribesmen, cure disease & blindness, etc... this story was reported by word of mouth by four unnamed tribal individuals who to this day remain totally anonymous.... my friend upon hearing this story tried to find the shaman and the four reporters but they could not be found anywhere. Frustrated he even searched the official Kenyan .gov birth records for the shamans birth date but they were missing or gone.... My question is "should I believe" this story or not! These are very spectacular & very extra-ordinary claims by the Kenyans, should I demand extra-ordinary evidence to verify these claims? Are Kenyans known for lying about such tribal things? I think my friend believes the story even tho he cannot find the evidence to support it.... lacking evidence, my senses tell me to remain very skeptical in the absence of compelling indisputable evidence!

[Sparky]

A friend of mine just got back from Kenya, where reportedly one of the tribal shaman can walk on water and take two boxes of Mrs. Pauls fish sticks & a pile of bread crumbs to feed thousands of hungry tribesmen, cure disease & blindness, etc... this story was reported by word of mouth by four unnamed tribal individuals who to this day remain totally anonymous.... my friend upon hearing this story tried to find the shaman and the four reporters but they could not be found anywhere. Frustrated he even searched the official Kenyan .gov birth records for the shamans birth date but they were missing or gone.... My question is "should I believe" this story or not! These are very spectacular & very extra-ordinary claims by the Kenyans, should I demand extra-ordinary evidence to verify these claims? Are Kenyans known for lying about such tribal things? I think my friend believes the story even tho he cannot find the evidence to support it.... lacking evidence, my senses tell me to remain very skeptical in the absence of compelling indisputable evidence!

I'd say if your friend's story is still widely being held as truth two thousand years from now, then there might be something to it.

[BarnkleBob]

Time & multiplied propagation does not create evidence, truth or facts... "error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it" --Ghandi

[Horn]

I'd say if your friend's story is still widely being held as truth two thousand years from now, then there might be something to it.

and what of the terrorists armed with box cutters?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1asoxwkTWC0

[Spectrism]

Time & multiplied propagation does not create evidence, truth or facts... "error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it" --Ghandi

Oft-repeated lies do not cancel reality.

[BarnkleBob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5mZ5...e_gdata_player

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5mZ5...e_gdata_player

Bad link.

[singular_me]

Makes me think of the quote... "if you tell people a lie big enough and repeat it over and over..."... That Jesus may have existed as a prophet of God is fine with me and surely doesnt/shouldnt disqualify the whole Bible. However, the same truths can be found in all religious texts....

Dont take me wrong I TOO think that cast issues (especially those targeting the untouchables) in India are "man made".

Many evil comes true when we believe blindly. IMHO


Time & multiplied propagation does not create evidence, truth or facts... "error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it" --Ghandi

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i48.tinypic.com/w21hg.jpg



http://i48.tinypic.com/racjgj.jpg

[BarnkleBob]

Lets see how long the story line remains in tact now that we are fully entering the age of Aquarius.... the old story is absurd... G-d rapes a peasant girl to create a messiah.. then the messiah denies he is the son of G-d.... yikes!

[Spectrism]

Lets see how long the story line remains in tact now that we are fully entering the age of Aquarius.... the old story is absurd... G-d rapes a peasant girl to create a messiah.. then the messiah denies he is the son of G-d.... yikes!

Are you just ignorant or a lying SOB? You slander what you do not understand and lie about what you do not have. You speak for the devil who is the father of lies. You are no better than Obama. You should feel a kinship with him.

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i50.tinypic.com/a5l3z7.jpg

[Horn]

The next 1000 yrs. is when the Age of Aquarius sleeps with the Fishes, apparently.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBS0iasbgpI

[joboo]

I'd say if your friend's story is still widely being held as truth two thousand years from now, then there might be something to it.

...and you better believe it, and live it 24/7, and drink it like water, or you're going to fry in the fire, and scream until your lungs bleed, while having your balls stabbed by burning hot rusty needles forever....and ever....and that's just the beginning. It gets much worse. Just think about it...a lot. Every day.

Or just go along with it, and it's like one continuous entire body ultra orgasm, but a gazillion times better.

No motivation to be found there.

Ruling people through fear propaganda & punishment/reward meme's is timeless. Look around for evidence of how extremely effective it is.

[BarnkleBob]

"Ruling people through fear propaganda & punishment/reward meme's is timeless. Look around for evidence of how extremely effective it is." Well said.... indeed some people evidently just luv being enslaved to it with make believe actors and scripts....

[Spectrism]

This is an ignorant response (figures that BarnackleB likes it)...


...and you better believe it, and live it 24/7, and drink it like water, or you're going to fry in the fire, and scream until your lungs bleed, while having your balls stabbed by burning hot rusty needles forever....and ever....and that's just the beginning. It gets much worse. Just think about it...a lot. Every day.

Or just go along with it, and it's like one continuous entire body ultra orgasm, but a gazillion times better.

No motivation to be found there.

Ruling people through fear propaganda & punishment/reward meme's is timeless. Look around for evidence of how extremely effective it is.

No... you look around and see that the law of cause and effect is fairly solid. You reap what you sow. The teachings of the bible are rock solid. You are only allowed the freedoms you have today because of the principles of the bible being embraced by a significant number. SOON you will see what your desired God-less world will reap. You will reap the whirlwind and the earth will stumble like a drunkard. You people who demand ignorance of truth, who deny reality in favor of your manufactured fantasy, and mock those who bring you universal truths.... You will soon be seeing calamities that belong to YOU and they are not some "scientific inevitability".

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx8PdvOELvY

[BarnkleBob]

It's a sad day for the religions and their snake oil salesman.... Genesis 1:14 tells us G-d made the stars to count the days, years & seasons... Dec. 21, 2012 @ 11:12 UTC the stars informed us that the Age of Pisces and its celestial forces were overtaken by the cosmological entrance of the Age of Aquarius and its celestial forces.... For all intents & purposes the past age of Pisces is over & almost gone, now the age of Aquarius will further destroy the ideas & concepts that were losing entropy as humanity entered Aquarius. This must be done for the new age Aquarian consciousness & creativity to flourish... the old must be destroyed to allow the new to develope. This is nature & natures progression, the best & foremost representative of a Supreme Being... Amost all of the worlds religions had forecast and\or prophecied that their Messiahs would return before the end of the AGE... The Mayans predicted the return of Quetzalcoati, the Muslims the return of the Maadi, the Buddist the return of the next emanation of the Buddhi, and of course the Xians believed Jesus would return on a cloud. NONE of these forecasts or prophecies were fullfilled before the Age of Pisces ended, hence they are unfulfilled & false prophecies. These lies were erected 1,000+ yrs ago when the writers knew they wouldn't be around when their prophecies were discovered to blatant falsehoods that were accepted by the profane, supersticious & ignorant.... Religitards dont fret or fear, for the godmen like the politicians will give you what you want & deserve, in fact their gonna give it to ya the way you like it; "good & hard" again, you will accept it & like it too! The Biblical "Old Testament" was created during the times & Ages of Cancer (flood), Gemini (invention of writing), Taurus (the bull\Ancient Egypt) Aries (Iron Age) and finally the New Testament represents Pisces (Xianity\Electricity\Agriculture\Industry)...... Aquarius, the water bearer is alchemically associated as a primal element of cleansing & purity... it is also associated with emotions, art, abundence, time, healing & philosophy... In other words all of the outdated antiquated now invalid ideas, concepts, & consciousness that still exist from the previous ages will be purged, cleansed & purified in the Age of Aquarius..... or so the esoteric & astrotheologist claim.... Indeed today we are directly experiencing the destructive forces exerted by Aquarius on the remnants of the Piscean age... religions, societies, cultures, economics, finance & political organizations are in the total destruction phase.... the total destruction of these institutions must progress to make room for the new Aquarian conciousness. Humanity just may be on the verge of the last Popes, the destruction of the Universal (Mother) Church and all of its offspring....

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i48.tinypic.com/axmfeh.jpg

[BarnkleBob]

@Spectricism.... you & your kind of consciousness is the problem or as you called it "the cause," I'm merely the "effect" that balances the equation or better know as "your insanity!"

[EE_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nT0Df4s8tUw

[BarnkleBob]

“Jesus Christ is Not the ‘Logos’ or the ‘Word’ in John 1:1,” says Recently Released Study by The Fellowship of Apostles Christian denominations around the world have taught that Jesus Christ is the ‘LOGOS’ or the ‘WORD’ in John 1:1 for more than 1700 years. A recently released study by The Fellowship of Apostles (http:// www.thefellowshipofapostles.com), a group dedicated to promoting the Bible and what is written therein, claims the Bible proves he is not. http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2012/12/prweb10256188.htm LMAO... Told ya so....

[BarnkleBob]

“The Biblical evidence is conclusive”, said Jarrett. “Jesus is not the LOGOS. The word of God is what God says. It is stunning to discover that the world’s major religions are based on a misunderstanding of scripture. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen (Romans 1:25). Churches will have a difficult time teaching that Jesus is the word once this truth is known. Despite it, people will continue to argue that Jesus is the ‘LOGOS’ or the ‘WORD’, even though there is not a single clear or specific verse that says that he is. The time has come for Christianity to re-evaluate its understanding of the Bible, and what it teaches,” he concluded..... Yep Barnkle you dont know how to read & interpret the Bible LIKE WE DO! Well as I have been stating & commenting, YOU WERE TAUGHT NONSENSE, LIES & THINGS THAT DONT EVEN APPEAR IN THE TEXTUAL SCRIPTURES.... Indeed, pious fraud was taught to keep the pulpit in biz., and you bought it, hook, line & sinker!

[Santa]

Religitards dont fret or fear, for the godmen like the politicians will give you what you want & deserve, in fact their gonna give it to ya the way you like it; "good & hard"

I'm wondering how the "wise men" plan on avoiding getting it "good and hard" just like all the "profane" religitards in the world.

[Spectrism]

You play the same game the devil plays- and the global controllers do the same. That is the kind of company you keep. Your shame will exude from you.


“Jesus Christ is Not the ‘Logos’ or the ‘Word’ in John 1:1,” says Recently Released Study by The Fellowship of Apostles Christian denominations around the world have taught that Jesus Christ is the ‘LOGOS’ or the ‘WORD’ in John 1:1 for more than 1700 years. A recently released study by The Fellowship of Apostles (http:// www.thefellowshipofapostles.com (http://www.thefellowshipofapostles.com)), a group dedicated to promoting the Bible and what is written therein, claims the Bible proves he is not. http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2012/12/prweb10256188.htm LMAO... Told ya so....

You site the "works" of man and decry the bible because it is a "work of man". You are a hypocrite.

Here is your man of the day:


Thomas McElwain completed a doctor's degree in Comparative Religion at the University of Stockholm in 1979 under the direction of the renowned Americanist Åke Hultkrantz. He continues on the faculty as Associate Professor (oavlönad docent). He was ordained as a Seventh Day Baptist minister in 1988, served as a missionary until 1990, was director of interfaith dialogue at the Islamic Centre of England 2001-2002.


An ordained fraud and a man selling his wares.
http://www.zazzle.com/fellowshipofapostles
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thomasmcelwain

[Spectrism]

“The Biblical evidence is conclusive”, said Jarrett. “Jesus is not the LOGOS. The word of God is what God says. It is stunning to discover that the world’s major religions are based on a misunderstanding of scripture. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen (Romans 1:25). Churches will have a difficult time teaching that Jesus is the word once this truth is known. Despite it, people will continue to argue that Jesus is the ‘LOGOS’ or the ‘WORD’, even though there is not a single clear or specific verse that says that he is. The time has come for Christianity to re-evaluate its understanding of the Bible, and what it teaches,” he concluded..... Yep Barnkle you dont know how to read & interpret the Bible LIKE WE DO! Well as I have been stating & commenting, YOU WERE TAUGHT NONSENSE, LIES & THINGS THAT DONT EVEN APPEAR IN THE TEXTUAL SCRIPTURES.... Indeed, pious fraud was taught to keep the pulpit in biz., and you bought it, hook, line & sinker!

Your interest in the bible is phenomenal or pheromonal. Your approach to it is satanic and smells horrendous. You are drawn like a moth to a flame, mocking the flame as it burns your lifeless wings. Like a dog returning to its vomit or a bird attacking its reflection in a glass, you cannot help yourself from being driven evermore into self-destruction.

Explain this simple verse:
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fh04bxcsgU

[BarnkleBob]

John 1:14 just more pious fraud... who is John? NO ONE knows, nor does history record who this person or persons were! Boo Hoo the invisible "bad boy" is coming to get me & when he's done with me the invisible good guy is gonna punish me too, vis a vis! It's one absurdity followed by another sold by snake oil salesman. Its prolly Xianities saving grace, namely that 90% dont read the bible, for if they did, the churches would be empty! Oh yes, your fully indoctrinated & programmed with the status quo answers! Hence you dont think for urself.... go figure!

[BarnkleBob]

while I'm not an ATHEIST, but an AGNOSTIC, I do share a common trait with the Athiest, namely we both BELIEVE in what we have SEEN & EXPERIENCED, while XIANS believe in what they have READ and areTOLD! Just as I suspected any errors in your belief system will be justified away & defended... to hell with the truth.... The Age of Aquarius is going to destroy Xianity via knowledge, logic, reasoning, epistomology, & empiricism....

[Spectrism]

John 1:14 just more pious fraud... who is John? NO ONE knows, nor does history record who this person or persons were!

Huh? You are absolutely drooling mad. Millions upon millions know John the disciple and writer of Revelation. YOU are the fraud. You are the hypocrite. Nobody here knows you or what you stand for. Many of us know John and admire his position with God. You dare slander a brother of mine and mock the Messiah who was perfect in all ways? You are demon-possessed as I noted early on in your slobbering posts.




Boo Hoo the invisible "bad boy" is coming to get me & when he's done with me the invisible good guy is gonna punish me too, vis a vis! It's one absurdity followed by another sold by snake oil salesman.

As I noted above, YOU were the one quoting a snakeoil salesman as YOUR reference against the Word of God. I am not selling anything and neither is my Messiah.



Its prolly Xianities saving grace, namely that 90% dont read the bible, for if they did, the churches would be empty! Oh yes, your fully indoctrinated & programmed with the status quo answers! Hence you dont think for urself.... go figure!

You cannot read the bible any more than my dog can. At least my dog has an excuse to slobber when she drinks.

[BarnkleBob]

Abraham meets God http://youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&hl=en&gl=US&v=C3c2WgQ9nJo

[Spectrism]

Abraham meets God http://youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&hl=en&gl=US&v=C3c2WgQ9nJo


Yes- very funny.... and for the ignorant masses, that is as far as they can comprehend. It seems to be a few steps up the ladder of understanding for some to gather the foreshadows of prophecy and the cost of sin.

[BarnkleBob]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i50.tinypic.com/nyw5mb.jpg

[BarnkleBob]

@Bibletards... When you understand why YOU do not believe in Zeus & Thor, then you will understand why I dont believe in Jesus & Yahweh!!!

[Spectrism]

@Bibletards... When you understand why YOU do not believe in Zeus & Thor, then you will understand why I dont believe in Jesus & Yahweh!!!

I know why you don't believe. You have a hardened heart. You chose your own control over things, blinded by your pride and you are clueless about what you have done. You prefer not to believe in a personal God because that would make you responsible to someone perfect. Admitting your faults to a perfect God is too much shock for your delicate ego. In fact, you worship many silly idols. It is not about worshipping anything, but about facing up to the truth- which you hate. Your non-stop rants against the teachings of the bible, your lies and slanders, your hypocrisy in references and your lack of logical decision-making all make it clear what you are.

[singular_me]

Spectrism, this is my understanding that believers always select quotes that make sense to them... but since I have another belief system, I spotted this one (mentioned by sirgonzo,. a while back):

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (obviously the Truth is in the Bible! The issue here is that explaining this to illiterate people is a catch 22 - or worse the writers of the Bible spent their time confusing people on purpose)

The problem is that "negative" and "positive" need one another to exist. And in my view true evil (or sin) springs from not understanding this, the will to eradicate "what one perceives as negative" IS an absolute folly!! :( this is why that antagonizing one's enemy just makes him/it/her stronger. equilibrium, psychic and spiritual, is a "thin line" between the two, which we all should thrive to achieve in this physical dimension.

Look at the jews accused of killing Christ and persecuted for centuries has led us to? I am sure that the Roman Church had forecast this since day 1... giving birth to a nemesis then turning him into a closet pal.

People who wish their own religion to be all powerful are completely delusional, yet those accuse which who dont go along their lines of being "evil worshipers" ... this is not going to end well, I am afraid. ... so will come Judgment Day. And what for in the end? To give these fanatic believers will the last words: "I told you so". LOL

[Spectrism]

Singular- you hit on 4 topics that each could engage a decent discussion. It is difficult to juggle many topics and then do justice to none of them.

Let'a take a quick look at the verse you quoted... Is 45:7. It is funny, but when I was a fairly new believer, this verse hit me with questions that I did not yet have answers for. Many of my questions went unanswered, as is the case for much of life. Now that I am older, I can look at them with different eyes and the Spirit can give me guidance as I allow.

If you read the entire chapter, you see that God is proclaiming that He alone is sovereign and without Him nothing exists. He reserves all rights and power to make and destroy what He pleases. He warns that the created being has no rights, leverage, power or strength over its Creator. The Creator can visit unruly creatures with evil (calamity or destruction) just as a potter can smash unworthy pots.


What we see in this thread is not a group wanting their religion to rule completely over others. Instead, we have one here who is slandering and perverting the beliefs that lead to life, thus inhibiting others who may have unction to seek truth. I loathe liars and misleaders. They are like traitors in a military force. They seek to poison wells of fresh water and contaminate the stores of feed grains. God allows all to believe what they want and there is no christian who would attempt to exert a control over another person, stealing their right to choose what they will. Just the opposite occurs. I love truth and want the true story told. The worker of evil is intent on distorting the truth to ridiculous proportions.

[Horn]

God allows all to believe what they want and there is no christian who would attempt to exert a control over another person, stealing their right to choose what they will. Just the opposite occurs.

Does this occur pre-circumcision, or post original sin baptismal?

[BarnkleBob]

LMAO.... You Spectrism are the DEVIL incarnate.... All your pious reasoning & illogic... All you can do is point to a book that you have reconciled to satisfy your wants & needs.... You & your kind are the worst of evil.... Just because you remain believing in Santa, Easter Bunny & Tooth Fairy doesn't mean the rest of us should be subjected to your delusions! I learned these truths at a very innocent age being brought up in a churchy environment... Indeed Once I learned that Santa, et al didn't exist I began asking YOUR GOD questions, but he never answered, 30 Yrs later I tried again.... Nope nothing.... Just because your delusional doesnt mean I must conform to it, on the contrary, it is my duty to strike down your evilness to allow truth to prevail.... It has been a long hard path to break away from the levitical priesthood programming, but well worth it.... Your Xian teachings predict you will be hunted down and terminated, they knew it was crap and that their forebears would pay for it... Kinda like our debt situation, a buncha crap that our kids will pay for..... Your dupes.....

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i49.tinypic.com/n4friu.jpg

[Spectrism]

LMAO.... You Spectrism are the DEVIL incarnate.... All your pious reasoning & illogic... All you can do is point to a book that you have reconciled to satisfy your wants & needs.... You & your kind are the worst of evil.... Just because you remain believing in Santa, Easter Bunny & Tooth Fairy doesn't mean the rest of us should be subjected to your delusions! I learned these truths at a very innocent age being brought up in a churchy environment... Indeed Once I learned that Santa, et al didn't exist I began asking YOUR GOD questions, but he never answered, 30 Yrs later I tried again.... Nope nothing.... Just because your delusional doesnt mean I must conform to it, on the contrary, it is my duty to strike down your evilness to allow truth to prevail.... It has been a long hard path to break away from the levitical priesthood programming, but well worth it.... Your Xian teachings predict you will be hunted down and terminated, they knew it was crap and that their forebears would pay for it... Kinda like our debt situation, a buncha crap that our kids will pay for..... Your dupes.....

You call me the devil because I love truth. You insist I am requiring you to believe and conform to my "religion". How is that possible when I don't much care what you do? How is it possible when you clearly worship yourself as god, and I have no voice in that choice?

You are one sad clown. You demanded of God to answer your way on your terms. Just who do you think you are?

[BarnkleBob]

Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah) Judaism teaches that the messiah will fulfill the following prophecies **in a single lifetime**, and Jesus did none of these: * The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26) * Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4) * The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17) * He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10) * The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2) * Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4) * Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9) * He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10) * All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12) * Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8) * There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8) * All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19) * The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11) * He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7) * Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5) * The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23) * The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55) * Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9) * The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot * He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9) * Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33) * He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4) * He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9) Jesus did not fulfill any of these Before you say he is going to do it when he returns: THERE IS NO "SECOND COMING" CONCEPT IN THE JEWISH BIBLE: Missionaries respond with their "second coming" theory, which asserts that Jesus will accomplish everything when he comes "next time." There are two major problems with this Christian answer. First, the second coming theory has no scriptural basis in the Jewish Bible. In fact, scripture states that when a person dies, "on that day his plans all perish." Therefore, according to scripture, when Jesus died, his plans ended. Second, the second coming theory can apply to any person who has ever lived and therefore is totally meaningless. For example, one can claim that their Gentile grandmother was the messiah. When challenged that she didn't accomplish anything, one can say that when she "comes back" she will be born a Jewish man with the correct genealogy and will accomplish everything!

[BarnkleBob]

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. [Deuteronomy 24:16]

[7th trump]

Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah) Judaism teaches that the messiah will fulfill the following prophecies **in a single lifetime**, and Jesus did none of these: * The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26) * Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4) * The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17) * He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10) * The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2) * Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4) * Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9) * He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10) * All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12) * Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8) * There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8) * All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19) * The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11) * He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7) * Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5) * The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23) * The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55) * Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9) * The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot * He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9) * Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33) * He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4) * He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9) Jesus did not fulfill any of these Before you say he is going to do it when he returns: THERE IS NO "SECOND COMING" CONCEPT IN THE JEWISH BIBLE: Missionaries respond with their "second coming" theory, which asserts that Jesus will accomplish everything when he comes "next time." There are two major problems with this Christian answer. First, the second coming theory has no scriptural basis in the Jewish Bible. In fact, scripture states that when a person dies, "on that day his plans all perish." Therefore, according to scripture, when Jesus died, his plans ended. Second, the second coming theory can apply to any person who has ever lived and therefore is totally meaningless. For example, one can claim that their Gentile grandmother was the messiah. When challenged that she didn't accomplish anything, one can say that when she "comes back" she will be born a Jewish man with the correct genealogy and will accomplish everything!

What kind of a fool are you Barnklebob?
All these passages (most anyway) deal with the end times, just before the return of Christ, and the time just after Christ returns,.......that time is fast approaching.
Only a "SPECIAL" fool, with a motive such as yours, would say Christ hasn't fullfilled these passages when the time hasnt yet arrived.
You are hell bent for your place in the lake of fire arent you.......... which I'll be more than happy to witness that place for you.

Theres a forgiveness for ignorance, but your deliberate evil deeds has no forgiveness.
You are either very stupid or very evil or both!

[7th trump]

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. [Deuteronomy 24:16]

Remember that passage barnklebob...........its a double edged sword.

[BarnkleBob]

LMAO... there it is, in your very scriptures and you deny the facts when presented... you are bamboozled... “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

[BarnkleBob]

The above biblically-based scriptural changes in the world are supposed to be very real, perceptible, noticeable, and knowable. The changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceptible at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one establish that Jesus died for one's sins, except by faith? The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism would be provable, but the changes made by the Jesus messiah according to Christianity can only be taken on faith. Even Christians recognize that the changes the real Messiah will make, according to the Bible and Judaism, have not yet happened. This is why Christianity had to invent the idea of a Second Coming. The real prophecied Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things -- he must do them the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah. This is self evident unless your bamboozled and\or completely ignorant...

[BarnkleBob]

In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. [Jeremiah 31:29-30] This is nothing but a restatement and elaboration on Deuteronomy 24:16: 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' The simple and literal meaning of the biblical text needs no interpretation. It is clear and it is consistent: No one can die to atone for the sins of another. This is why Jews do not believe there was any redemptive power at all in Jesus' death. Such a belief is unbiblical; it has no basis in the so-called sacred text and no justification in Jewish theology. This doctrine can be seen as an invention for the sake of post-event rationalization, in other words, to give meaning and purpose to the pretended crucifixion after the fact. Some Christians may choose to interpret other verses in the Bible to indicate the opposite, that one CAN die for the sins of another. If that were the case, this would mean that Gd changed His mind, or that He did not mean what He said in Deuteronomy 24:16: 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' But Gd does not change either His mind or His nature, as we read in Malachi 3:6.......

[Spectrism]

Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah) Judaism teaches that the messiah will fulfill the following prophecies **in a single lifetime**, and Jesus did none of these:

Show me the scripture you quoted for this.

You are a whiner and complainer just like those saved from Egypt. Because of their UNBELIEF, they could not enter the promised land. Your unbelief makes it impossible for you to know the Messiah.

Because of the unbelieving Jews, God broke them off from His vine and grafted in the gentiles. Look at what happened to Israel. Overrun by savages because they mocked God and worshipped false gods. You carry on that tradition well.

[BarnkleBob]

You deny the facts when you are confronted with them.... your learnings are false.... you are the false church, you are misguided & bamboozled!

[7th trump]

You deny the facts when you are confronted with them.... your learnings are false.... you are the false church, you are misguided & bamboozled!
Pure deflection Barnklebob...............so answer Spec question of where you cite the scripture.

The facts???....the fact is you are taking the scripture out of context by suggesting Christ was to accomplish all this while in the flesh 2012 years ago.
What the fact is those scriptures you cited arent fullfilled until just before and just after Christ returns........the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

The fact is you refuse to read and understand plain english to push your false teachings there mr. satan!

[BarnkleBob]

My position is backed by a corpus of scriptural evidence.... the pretenders in this thread provide zero scriptural evidence to qualify their positions... Sorry folks I dont accept your positions on faith.... just because YOU say so.... its time for you to prove me wrong using scriptural evidence....

[7th trump]

My position is backed by a corpus of scriptural evidence.... the pretenders in this thread provide zero scriptural evidence to qualify their positions... Sorry folks I dont accept your positions on faith.... just because YOU say so.... its time for you to prove me wrong using scriptural evidence....

Really!!
You are either ignorant or really really stupid.........or both!
Backed by "corpus of scriptural evidence" huh?
All I see is your personal opinion of the Bible.
You havent proven anything except how immature and childish you are.
I mean really......... you are taking scripture of future events and applying it to the past and calling it evidence the Bible is a lie!
How stupid are you?

Btw, wheres the scripture to back yourself that Spec is asking for?
You've already proven your lack of intelligence.........are you gonna prove you're a liar as well?

[BarnkleBob]

Corpus means body, as used "body of scriptural evidence." Reasons Jesus wasn’t the Jewish Messiah divine birth/divinity - (the Jewish Messiah will be human – G-d cannot become human – Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:6, Hosea 11:9, Ezekiel 28:2, Numbers 23:19) - please explain... performing miracles - (JM won't perform miracles) - please explain.... taking on the sins of others - (no one can take on the sins of others – Deuteronomy 24:16, Exodus 32:30-35, Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27) - please explain.... breaking Sabbath - please explain.... (JM will be observant) - please explain.... sacrificed/rising from the dead - (G-d rejects human sacrifice and blood sacrifice is NOT an absolute requirement – Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Jeremiah 19:4-6, Psalm 106:37-38, Ezekiel 16:20, Leviticus 5:11-13, Jonah 3:10, Leviticus 17, Leviticus 5:11-13, Numbers 16:47, Numbers 31:50, Isaiah 6:6-7, Jeremiah 7:22-23, Psalm 51:16-17) - please explain..... prophecies unfilled - (JM will accomplish them in one life time) - please explain...

[Neuro]

BarnacleBob, if you indeed are him.... At old GIM, I used to read your varied posts with great interest, here it appears you are locked in a massive loop of circular reasoning, that is not leading anywhere. At GIM I voted for you as the greatest contributor of the Year. Let it go and come back!

[Spectrism]

Corpus means body, as used "body of scriptural evidence."

Do you think that because you use the latin form "corpus" that it makes your argument better? LOL... really? How embarassing (for you).
More like a rigor mortis corpus. You have no idea what the corpus scriptura is.

When citing scripture, it is only good manners to actually cite the words instead of the reference... unless you are just copying and pasting some other atheist's words. You wouldn't do that, would you? Well, considering your childish inane rants, maybe you would be that low-classed. Let's check.

OOOPSSS..... what is this?
http://www.lzrain.com/Rencentqa/2012100966797.html


Reasons Jesus was NOT the Jewish Messiah:

Divine birth/divinity (the Jewish Messiah will NOT be divine. He will be human.) G-d cannot become human: Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:6, Hosea 11:9, Ezekiel 28:2, Numbers 23:19

Performing Miracles – the Jewish Messiah will NOT perform miracles but will accomplish them

Taking on the sins of others: no one can take on the sins of others: Deuteronomy 24:16, Exodus 32:30-35, Ezekiel 18:1-4, 20-24; 26-27

Breaking the Sabbath – the Jewish Messiah will be observant.

Sacrificed/Rising from the dead: G-d rejects human sacrifice and blood sacrifice is NOT an absolute requirement for the absolution of sin – Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Jeremiah 19:4-6, Psalm 106:37-38, Ezekiel 16:20, Leviticus 5:11-13, Jonah 3:10, Leviticus 17, Leviticus 5:11-13, Numbers 16:47, Numbers 31:50, Isaiah 6:6-7, Jeremiah 7:22-23, Psalm 51:16-17. There will be no rising from the dead until the Messianic Age. The Jewish Messiah won’t be a sacrifice that has to rise from the dead.

Prophecies Unfilled – the Jewish Messiah will accomplish ALL the prophecies in one lifetime.



BarnkleBob's plagiarism:

Reasons Jesus wasn’t the Jewish Messiah divine birth/divinity - (the Jewish Messiah will be human – G-d cannot become human – - (JM won't perform miracles) - please explain.... taking on the sins of others - (no one can take on the sins of others – Deuteronomy 24:16, Exodus 32:30-35, Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27) - please explain.... breaking Sabbath - please explain.... (JM will be observant) - please explain.... sacrificed/rising from the dead - (G-d rejects human sacrifice and blood sacrifice is NOT an absolute requirement – Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Jeremiah 19:4-6, Psalm 106:37-38, Ezekiel 16:20, Leviticus 5:11-13, Jonah 3:10, Leviticus 17, Leviticus 5:11-13, Numbers 16:47, Numbers 31:50, Isaiah 6:6-7, Jeremiah 7:22-23, Psalm 51:16-17) - please explain..... prophecies unfilled - (JM will accomplish them in one life time) - please explain...

I submit that you are plagiarizing other web sites and making this one a target for litigation. Besides being a liar, you are a thief and a devil. I think this a surely a bannable offense.

[BarnkleBob]

Deuteronomy 12:30-31 G-d calls human sacrifice an abomination and something G-d detests & hates..... Jeremiah 19:4-6 G-d tells us that human sacrifice is so horrible a concept, that it did not even come into G-ds mind. This is similar to Psalm 106 & Ezekial 16. Please explain in evidence of the above why G-d, who detests humam sacrifice would of all things sacrificed his ONLY begotten son? Please explain why he changed his mind!

[BarnkleBob]

Do you think that because you use the latin form "corpus" that it makes your argument better? LOL... really? How embarassing (for you).
More like a rigor mortis corpus. You have no idea what the corpus scriptura is.

When citing scripture, it is only good manners to actually cite the words instead of the reference... unless you are just copying and pasting some other atheist's words. You wouldn't do that, would you? Well, considering your childish inane rants, maybe you would be that low-classed. Let's check.

OOOPSSS..... what is this?
http://www.lzrain.com/Rencentqa/2012100966797.html




BarnkleBob's plagiarism:


I submit that you are plagiarizing other web sites and making this one a target for litigation. Besides being a liar, you are a thief and a devil. I think this a surely a bannable offense.

“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.” -- C. JoyBell C.

[Santa]

“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.” -- C. JoyBell C.

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4114218.C_JoyBell_C_
"C. JoyBell C. is best known for her love of cake, especially that of the red velvet nature." :D
4231

[Horn]

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4114218.C_JoyBell_C_
"C. JoyBell C. is best known for her love of cake, especially that of the red velvet nature." :D
4231

That post is a clear case of Habeas Corpus ad hominem.

[Spectrism]

That post is a clear case of Habeas Corpus ad hominem.

And I am still waiting for the mea culpa plagiarius maximus.

[Sparky]

...and you better believe it, and live it 24/7, and drink it like water, or you're going to fry in the fire, and scream until your lungs bleed, while having your balls stabbed by burning hot rusty needles forever....and ever....and that's just the beginning. It gets much worse. Just think about it...a lot. Every day.

Or just go along with it, and it's like one continuous entire body ultra orgasm, but a gazillion times better.

No motivation to be found there.

Ruling people through fear propaganda & punishment/reward meme's is timeless. Look around for evidence of how extremely effective it is.

I think this is an example of why people struggle with acceptance.

There's a core truth. Then, as you say, humans take it and exploit it, wrap it in promises of torture and ecstasy for their own personal gain.

Now let me ask you: Does that change the core truth? Or does it just jade your perception of the truth?

[Horn]

There's a core truth. Then, as you say, humans take it and exploit it, wrap it in promises of torture and ecstasy for their own personal gain.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA1__SUPhlE

[Horn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix


The concept of Co-redemption is not new. Even before the year 200, the Church Father Irenaeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus) referred to Mary as "causa salutis" [cause of our salvation] given her "fiat"[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-4) It is a concept which was the subject of considerable theological debate, reaching a peak in the 15th century,[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-5) but attempts to have it declared a dogma were not successful. In general it was supported and promoted by medieval Franciscans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franciscans) and opposed by Dominicans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Order).

A number of theologians have discussed the concept over the years, from the 19th century Father Frederick William Faber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_William_Faber),[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-6) to the 20th century Mariologist (and advisor to the Holy Office) Father Gabriel Roschini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Roschini).[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-7) In his 1946 publication Compendium Mariologiae, Roschini explained that Mary did not only participate in the birth of the physical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_property) Jesus, but, with conception, she entered with him into a spiritual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality) union. The divine salvation plan, being not only material, includes a permanent spiritual unity with Christ. Most Mariologists agree with this position.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-8) Pope Leo XIII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_XIII) noted that in her Annunciation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annunciation), “in a sense, she stood in place of all mankind.”[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-9) Mary suffered willingly under the cross[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-10) and, in a sense, offered His sacrifice to the Eternal Father.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-11)

The concept of Mary offering Christ's sufferings is theologically complex.

Christ offered Himself alone; “the Passion of Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_%28Christianity%29) did not need any assistance.”[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix#cite_note-12) It is according to the spirit of the offertory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offertory) within the Holy Mass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Mass), in which those assisting in the Sacrifice bring their particular offerings, personal hardships, etc., and offer them to the Lord to be included in His Sacrifice, inasmuch as they belong to His mystical body; just the same, they also offer the Lord's own Sacrifice, acknowledging the littleness of their own offerings and the fact that not even the greatest effort, of itself and apart from Christ, can be of God's use. A priest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest) is, in a sense, able to participate in the Sacrifice in a sacramental manner. For laymen, see for example the prayers of the Divine Mercy Chaplet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Mercy_Chaplet). The Holy Office has forbidden reference to Mary as a priestess.

[singular_me]

congrats BB, for my part, I think that every belief system that is based on a "blood sacrifice" - is always man made. There are way too many double talks in the Bible too, like "thou shall not kill" as opposed to "crucifixion"... "the kingdom of God is within" as opposed to "Saint Peter's Church".... anybody having a sense of logic can spot these contradictions very easily. I repeat, the Bible says many truths but what will flush it down the drain are the man made attempts to compartmentalize/fragment its followers.

ps: I am a mix of pantheist/gnostic/buddhist.




“The Biblical evidence is conclusive”, said Jarrett. “Jesus is not the LOGOS. The word of God is what God says. It is stunning to discover that the world’s major religions are based on a misunderstanding of scripture. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen (Romans 1:25). Churches will have a difficult time teaching that Jesus is the word once this truth is known. Despite it, people will continue to argue that Jesus is the ‘LOGOS’ or the ‘WORD’, even though there is not a single clear or specific verse that says that he is. The time has come for Christianity to re-evaluate its understanding of the Bible, and what it teaches,” he concluded..... Yep Barnkle you dont know how to read & interpret the Bible LIKE WE DO! Well as I have been stating & commenting, YOU WERE TAUGHT NONSENSE, LIES & THINGS THAT DONT EVEN APPEAR IN THE TEXTUAL SCRIPTURES.... Indeed, pious fraud was taught to keep the pulpit in biz., and you bought it, hook, line & sinker!

[singular_me]

Hello Neuro, please allow me thrown in my 2 cents. It doesnt matter whether it is him or not... as humanity is faced with the most dire spiritual challenge ever. We need someone to do the dirty job so to speak (ie shaking the foundations of what is being taken from granted or/and lies).

I have understood the stakes pretty well let me tell you that materialism will never bring any good if we dont change/update/upgrade our spiritual views first as $$ merely mirrors the spiritual. The Big Picture is Awareness/Consciousness and will always engulf anything else in due time.

Best


BarnacleBob, if you indeed are him.... At old GIM, I used to read your varied posts with great interest, here it appears you are locked in a massive loop of circular reasoning, that is not leading anywhere. At GIM I voted for you as the greatest contributor of the Year. Let it go and come back!

[Santa]

That post is a clear case of Habeas Corpus ad hominem.

LOL! The entire corpus of this thread is ad hominem, since there is no logical rhetorical debate possible in regard to Faith.

Faith is apart from reason in the same way art and poetry are apart from logic.

And unfortunately for you and B-b, God can ONLY be experienced through Faith.

But a problem occurs when one tries to find God through reason, logic, science and technology; those things that can be seen, measured, and created by Man.

Things like this.
4232

And this....
4233

And this...
4234

[singular_me]

BarnkleBob's plagiarism:
I submit that you are plagiarizing other web sites and making this one a target for litigation. Besides being a liar, you are a thief and a devil. I think this a surely a bannable offense.

Spectrism if you wish to use copyright issues to make a point, then you are part of the problem on this planet. :) We all know that copyrights laws serve the global elites - we all get our ideas from somewhere! The human mind is wired as a computer and ideas and concepts flow throughout the Universe, direct from God's Mind.

I have seen many Christians on here quoting the Bible without mentioning any links at all. Yet there are many different Bibles. Further, arent all religious texts in the PUBLIC domain??

This threat makes you look like a loser, sorry.

[Spectrism]

Spectrism if you wish to use copyright issues to make a point, then you are part of the problem. :) We all get our ideas from somewhere!

I have seen many Christians on here quoting the Bible without mentioning any links at all. Yet there are many different Bibles. Further, arent all religious texts in the PUBLIC domain??

This threat makes you look like a loser, sorry.

Don't even try to pull that CRAP with me!

I caught a liar stealing other comments from another site and pretending they were his own. He put no thought or effort into them other than to copy and paste while trying to stir the pot of garbage he was feeding people here.

How is it that you have no sense of the injustice that slimeball did this forum? How is he still here? I would expect some level of journalistic responsibility in this forum. If he is not banned, then this forum acknowledges and accepts what he did.

[singular_me]

And unfortunately for you and B-b, God can ONLY be experienced through Faith.

when I get a chance I will expand on this, but right now I will state that I completely disagree.


But a problem occurs when one tries to find God through reason, logic, science and technology; those things that can be seen, measured, and created by Man.

When sciences and technology are in harmony with God's principles, they NEVER go wrong. So they are barometers of Man's Virtues and Awareness. This to say that I disagree again with you here.

[singular_me]

Spectrism, I have not been online for 1 week... and I have too much to catch up (thus no time to go through the whole thread), please refer me to the posting(s) that make you think so?

collecting bible quotes in the same vein shouldnt be a bannable offense... IMHO



Don't even try to pull that CRAP with me!

I caught a liar stealing other comments from another site and pretending they were his own. He put no thought or effort into them other than to copy and paste while trying to stir the pot of garbage he was feeding people here.

How is it that you have no sense of the injustice that slimeball did this forum? How is he still here? I would expect some level of journalistic responsibility in this forum. If he is not banned, then this forum acknowledges and accepts what he did.

[Spectrism]

I just told you this clown is plagiarizing garbage that he thinks makes some case, yet he is unable to defend the slightest scrutiny of its outright lies. He pretended it was his own work so that make him a double liar. And here you are sucking up to the lies with your own silly misunderstandings. You are most welcome to hold whatever misconceptions you wish, but when you preach them as "fact" you are stepping into the public arena of challenges. You hold so many fallacies that it would be difficult to address them at once. So many!



congrats BB, for my part, I think that every belief system that is based on a "blood sacrifice" - is always man made. There are way too many double talks in the Bible too, like "thou shall not kill" as opposed to "crucifixion"... "the kingdom of God is within" as opposed to "Saint Peter's Church".... anybody having a sense of logic can spot these contradictions very easily. I repeat, the Bible says many truths but what will flush it down the drain are the man made attempts to compartmentalize/fragment its followers.

ps: I am a mix of pantheist/gnostic/buddhist.

Here is another fine example of a plagiarism. I found the source here:
http://www.wcax.com/story/20404492/jesus-christ-is-not-the-logos-or-the-word-in-john-11-says-recently-released-study-by-the-fellowship-of-apostles


“The Biblical evidence is conclusive”, said Jarrett. “Jesus is not the LOGOS. The word of God is what God says. It is stunning to discover that the world’s major religions are based on a misunderstanding of scripture. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen (Romans 1:25). Churches will have a difficult time teaching that Jesus is the word once this truth is known. Despite it, people will continue to argue that Jesus is the ‘LOGOS’ or the ‘WORD’, even though there is not a single clear or specific verse that says that he is. The time has come for Christianity to re-evaluate its understanding of the Bible, and what it teaches,” he concluded..... Yep Barnkle you dont know how to read & interpret the Bible LIKE WE DO! Well as I have been stating & commenting, YOU WERE TAUGHT NONSENSE, LIES & THINGS THAT DONT EVEN APPEAR IN THE TEXTUAL SCRIPTURES.... Indeed, pious fraud was taught to keep the pulpit in biz., and you bought it, hook, line & sinker!

Compare what the source says-

“The Biblical evidence is conclusive”, said Jarrett. “Jesus is not the LOGOS. The word of God is what God says. It is stunning to discover that the world’s major religions are based on a misunderstanding of scripture. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen (Romans 1:25). Churches will have a difficult time teaching that Jesus is the word once this truth is known. Despite it, people will continue to argue that Jesus is the ‘LOGOS’ or the ‘WORD’, even though there is not a single clear or specific verse that says that he is. The time has come for Christianity to re-evaluate its understanding of the Bible, and what it teaches,” he concluded.


This seems to be BarnkleBob's MO- just keep posting clips from another atheist site and ignore the discussion. Why is this dog still on this forum?

[Spectrism]

Spectrism, I have not been online for 1 week... and I have too much to catch up (thus no time to go through the whole thread), please refer me to the posting(s) that make you think so?

collecting bible quotes in the same vein shouldnt be a bannable offense... IMHO

Bible quotes often have chapter and verse associated with them. God spoke His word freely and to men it should be freely given. The profiteers in the publishing industry have perverted the Word and tried to make it unique so they could claim an original work in their "translations". THEY are committing thievery. My Father in heaven has given me His Word for my consumption. His Word is given to produce fruit, not profits for evil men.

If you take 2 minutes and examine the "work" of BarnkleBob, you might want to quickly dissociate with that character. He is one twisted mess.... and you are not far behind.

[Santa]

I completely disagree.

Oh really? I'm so surprised. Lol...
Tell you what... Let me know when you find God through some math equation or scientific experiment.

[singular_me]

Oh really? I'm so surprised. Lol...
Tell you what... Let me know when you find God through some math equation or scientific experiment.

You were talking about Faith.... acknowledging the God Concept and faith are two very different things, dear.

Faith evokes "blindness" above all. Acknowledging is witnessing, and thus evoking "cooperation".

[Horn]

And unfortunately for you and B-b, God can ONLY be experienced through Faith.

But a problem occurs when one tries to find God through reason, logic, science and technology; those things that can be seen, measured, and created by Man.

Things like this.
4232

And this....
4233

And this...
4234

Since we're lumping and blanketing, I might as well throw this under the rug too.

4235

If you have any specific considerations, I have some time for specific quiet considerations.

Every & anything we've ever needed has been available since day 1.

[singular_me]

yawn, Spectrism... what he says (regardless of his sources) disturbs you deeply, so now lets attack him? I have read what he says online in many occasions (other links), so I know where he is coming from.... no problem with me.

by mentioning Jarret, BB states that it is not his: “The Biblical evidence is conclusive”, said Jarrett. “ ... as for the CAPS, I directly understood that BB inserted his two cents. However he CLEARLY starts the paragraph with his handle: Yep Barnkle you dont know how to read & interpret the Bible LIKE WE DO! ...

Additionally, because you deem "certain talks" as garbage, it must be so... yawnnn!


Bible quotes often have chapter and verse associated with them. God spoke His word freely and to men it should be freely given. The profiteers in the publishing industry have perverted the Word and tried to make it unique so they could claim an original work in their "translations". THEY are committing thievery. My Father in heaven has given me His Word for my consumption. His Word is given to produce fruit, not profits for evil men.

If you take 2 minutes and examine the "work" of BarnkleBob, you might want to quickly dissociate with that character. He is one twisted mess.... and you are not far behind.




I just told you this clown is plagiarizing garbage that he thinks makes some case, yet he is unable to defend the slightest scrutiny of its outright lies. He pretended it was his own work so that make him a double liar. And here you are sucking up to the lies with your own silly misunderstandings. You are most welcome to hold whatever misconceptions you wish, but when you preach them as "fact" you are stepping into the public arena of challenges. You hold so many fallacies that it would be difficult to address them at once. So many!




Here is another fine example of a plagiarism. I found the source here:
http://www.wcax.com/story/20404492/jesus-christ-is-not-the-logos-or-the-word-in-john-11-says-recently-released-study-by-the-fellowship-of-apostles



Compare what the source says-


This seems to be BarnkleBob's MO- just keep posting clips from another atheist site and ignore the discussion. Why is this dog still on this forum?

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqHxOQWW_Nw

[Spectrism]

yawn, Spectrism... what he says (regardless of his sources) disturbs you deeply, so now lets attack him? I have read what he says online in many occasions (other links), so I know where he is coming from.... no problem with me.

by mentioning Jarret, BB states that it is not his: “The Biblical evidence is conclusive”, said Jarrett. “ ... as for the CAPS, I directly understood that BB inserted his two cents. However he CLEARLY starts the paragraph with his handle: Yep Barnkle you dont know how to read & interpret the Bible LIKE WE DO! ...

Additionally, because you deem "certain talks" as garbage, it must be so... yawnnn!

I thought you (and he) might try that game. You insult my intelligence and batter my sensibilities! That WHOLE paragraph was copied... not just the quote!!! NONE of it was BB's work! NONE!
The only place BB made comments was to claim victory in an argument that someone else made. If you look at the links I posted, proving his plagiarism, you will see the exact quoting of Jarret- whoever the hell Jarret is.

And it is blatant nonsense that is proffered as "evidence conclusive". It disgusts me to even talk with people so ignorant and willfully stupid. I have met uneducated people with more sense than this. I would rather converse with someone who cannot spell or grammatically form sentences, than liars who think they know truths, but only know deception.

[Santa]

You were talking about Faith.... acknowledging the God Concept and faith are two very different things, dear.

I'm talking about Faith, yes... Faith with a capital F, as in Faith in God. Jesus Christ Lord God, sweetikins.

I don't claim to be Christian... mainly because I don't have the strength or the Faith required to follow Jesus' moral teachings in Life. I wish I did though.
'
As far as I'm concerned, it really doesn't make any difference if Jesus was real or not. That, to me is a false argument because it relies on
understanding the Bible from literal interpretation.

From that perspective, B-b is doing the exact same thing he complains that Christians are doing. Only he's using literal interpretations to prove that Jesus was a fraud rather than accepting Jesus as Christ.

But the thing is he's getting these "literal" interpretations straight from a bunch of Judaic/Materialist atheists, rather than using heart, intuition, poetry.

Poor B-b.

[Horn]

con·de·scend·ing/ˌkändəˈsendiNG/


Adjective




Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
(of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.











Synonyms


patronizing - gracious

[Spectrism]

You were talking about Faith.... acknowledging the God Concept and faith are two very different things, dear.

Faith evokes "blindness" above all. Acknowledging is witnessing, and thus evoking "cooperation".

I will interlope on this conversation. There is no such thing as a "God Concept". God is not a concept but an actual individual plurality being, all-powerful and all-knowing. I speak from personal experience so it is my word as a witness among millions of others. Your concept of "faith" is some strange concoction that does not match mine or the one expressed in the bible.

[Horn]

Faith, Hope, Love

Again parts of the "Holy Trinity" seeking to dissect the latter, all encompassing Love bliss.

Works of Devilman's scalpel.

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i49.tinypic.com/14v9ef.jpg

[Santa]

Faith evokes "blindness" above all.

And Love evokes fealty, responsibility and pain. Does that make Love any less important?

[Santa]

con·de·scend·ing

I forgive you. :)

Funny though, that you don't seem to notice B-b's endless condescension and total disgust for Christians. What's up with that?

[singular_me]

Spectrism, it is all about perception... I see God as a guidance NOT a Being threatening me with Hell 24/7.

No such thing as a God Concept? allow me to clarify this: By using the word "concept" I do recognize that my understanding of the Greater Scheme Of all Things is still evolving as I progress, while not taking everything literally or blindly.

But I say Concept just as I could say Mind, Idea or The Oneness....

I am very glad that my concept of faith is different than yours, I'd rather subscribe to the Vedic Teachings than Christianity.


I will interlope on this conversation. There is no such thing as a "God Concept". God is not a concept but an actual individual plurality being, all-powerful and all-knowing. I speak from personal experience so it is my word as a witness among millions of others. Your concept of "faith" is some strange concoction that does not match mine or the one expressed in the bible.

[singular_me]

The only being I have Faith in is myself... didnt God made Humans at his image? Saying the Lord implies that we are subjects/vassals, sorry it doesnt work with me. Human's Mind has to mirror God's Mind.... and we do have the abilities to do so once we cease being fragmented, once we understand the dualities in all things.

The only thing we agree on here is that it doesnt matter as to whether Jesus has existed or not. It is the message that counts, anything else comes down to idolatry.



I'm talking about Faith, yes... Faith with a capital F, as in Faith in God. Jesus Christ Lord God, sweetikins.

I don't claim to be Christian... mainly because I don't have the strength or the Faith required to follow Jesus' moral teachings in Life. I wish I did though.
'
As far as I'm concerned, it really doesn't make any difference if Jesus was real or not. That, to me is a false argument because it relies on
understanding the Bible from literal interpretation.

From that perspective, B-b is doing the exact same thing he complains that Christians are doing. Only he's using literal interpretations to prove that Jesus was a fraud rather than accepting Jesus as Christ.

But the thing is he's getting these "literal" interpretations straight from a bunch of Judaic/Materialist atheists, rather than using heart, intuition, poetry.

Poor B-b.

[Santa]

There is no such thing as a "God Concept".

Very good point.

People who struggle with Faith in God see God as a conceptual construct inside their own personal thought process. To them, god is something like an opinion or an idea created or destroyed at their leisure.

[singular_me]

Santa, I seriously doubt that somebody incapable of self-love is able to love others. Everything emanates from the Self... again the Bible says: God is within. This war against the Self is as old as Mankind and that's why the elites are so fond of using dualism against us, so we never find out that the True War resides INSIDE us. All external conflicts highlight this, hence are an illusion. The elites have succeeded so far... peace is war, slavery is freedom, etc.



And Love evokes fealty, responsibility and pain. Does that make Love any less important?

love equating pain is a religious concept... if the above is understood, Love is wonderful and pain-free. Love is only pain when it is an ego projection.

Everything can be interpreted dually: did Jesus die on the cross to show that love is painful or that what we fight for is completely senseless? You choose! The 1st option = guilt and 2nd one = freedom from guilt.

ps: I have been amazed many times on this road trip, every time we open ourselves for a setback/obstacle, simultaneously a solution surfaces. The fear to lose is really a deceiving mindset. There is nothing to fear, really.

[singular_me]

right, anybody who wishes to surrender without condition will surely agree with this... :)


Very good point.

People who struggle with Faith in God see God as a conceptual construct inside their own personal thought process. To them, god is something like an opinion or an idea created or destroyed at their leisure.

you are really saying whatever... God cannot be destroyed but our thoughts when we are not enough flexible. And faith is rather like a heavy monolith. Trust me 101% or be punished

[Horn]

I forgive you. :)

Funny though, that you don't seem to notice B-b's endless condescension and total disgust for Christians. What's up with that?

People need to vent, provocation reaction otherwise.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVSktF2D8M

[Santa]

The only being I have Faith in is myself...didnt God made Humans at his image?

Ok... Whatever, Circular Me. You didn't make God. God made you. End of Story.

[Spectrism]

When someone says "apple" you see a baseball. Your perceptions of reality are so far from truth that it is frightening.


Spectrism, it is all about perception... I see God as a guidance NOT a Being threatening me with Hell 24/7.

Threatened? How do I threaten you when I say keep your head low in a battlefield? How do I threaten you when I say the bridge is washed out so don't go down that road? How do I threaten you when I say eating a diet lacking in vitamin C will kill you?

Your problem is that you like mental masturbation more than truth.



No such thing as a God Concept? allow me to clarify this: By using the word "concept" I do recognize that my understanding of the Greater Scheme Of all Things is still evolving as I progress, while not taking everything literally or blindly.

But I say Concept just as I could say Mind, Idea or The Oneness....

I am very glad that my concept of faith is different than yours, I'd rather subscribe to the Vedic Teachings than Christianity.


If you are glad to have your head blown off in a battlefield, who am I to argue? If you like driving off cliffs where the bridge was washed out, go right ahead. If you find concepts of your own mind or of those who proclaim wonderful "truths" to your excited mind to be more stimulating than what you cannot understand, then it is YOUR choice to go there.


The only being I have Faith in is myself... didnt God made Humans at his image? Saying the Lord implies that we are subjects/vassals, sorry it doesnt work with me. Human's Mind has to mirror God's Mind.... and we do have the abilities to do so once we cease being fragmented, once we understand the dualities in all things.

The only thing we agree on here is that it doesnt matter as to whether Jesus has existed or not. It is the message that counts, anything else comes down to idolatry.

The objecy of your faith is poor. Your faith cannot work for any good. God did not make us in His image. He made Adam in His image. Adam fell and lost his Spirit. He could only procreate after his own kind. Dead in Spirit means children also dead in Spirit.

There is nothing you and I agree on! Please keep that straight. I suppose you were talking with Santa.... but I want to be clear.



Santa, I seriously doubt that somebody incapable of self-love is able to love others. Everything emanates from the Self... again the Bible says: God is within. This war against the Self is as old as Mankind and that's why the elites are so fond of using dualism against us, so we never find out that the True War resides INSIDE us. All external conflicts highlight this, hence are an illusion. The elites have succeeded so far... peace is war, slavery is freedom, etc.

No! The bible says no such thing. Yashuah told His followers not to look for the Kingdom externally but internally. He was talking to those who were BELIEVERS. Not you! Believers are given the inheritance of the Kingdom and the indwelling of His Spirit.



love equating pain is a religious concept... if the above is understood, Love is wonderful and pain-free. Love is only pain when it is an ego projection.


You do not know what love is.



Everything can be interpreted dually: did Jesus die on the cross to show that love is painful or that what we fight for is completely senseless? You choose! The 1st option = guilt and 2nd one = freedom from guilt.


No! You just used the duality of false choices that you explained the global elite use. You speak with words of the devil.



ps: I have been amazed many times on this road trip, every time we open ourselves for a setback/obstacle, simultaneously a solution surfaces. The fear to lose is really a deceiving mindset. There is nothing to fear, really.


More mental masturbating rubbish. You are thrilled with your ability to put 5 good words together and create something meaningless.



right, anybody who wishes to surrender without condition will surely agree with this... :)

you are really saying whatever... God cannot be destroyed but our thoughts when we are not enough flexible. And faith is rather like a heavy monolith. Trust me 101% or be punished

Your exaggeration of 101% is a ploy of the devil. God is the only good and true object of Faith. He alone is infact the only one to trust. But you speak for the devil in denying that.

[Horn]

Ok... Whatever, Circular Me. You didn't make God. God made you. End of Story.

All threads lead to that tree falling in the forest when nobody is there...

[Tumbleweed]

I've stayed out of this thread but I've done some reading here. Mostly I've read Spectrisms posts because there is much to learn from them. I believe he is a better friend to those that disagree with him than they realize. When we come to the end of our life we will face it alone. I believe Anton Lavey had second thoughts about his beliefs when he faced it but it was to late. Watch this video and I hope you will realize you are on your own when you come to the end just like Anton Lavey.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nWt_U2gEEI

[7th trump]

When someone says "apple" you see a baseball. Your perceptions of reality are so far from truth that it is frightening.



Threatened? How do I threaten you when I say keep your head low in a battlefield? How do I threaten you when I say the bridge is washed out so don't go down that road? How do I threaten you when I say eating a diet lacking in vitamin C will kill you?

Your problem is that you like mental masturbation more than truth.




If you are glad to have your head blown off in a battlefield, who am I to argue? If you like driving off cliffs where the bridge was washed out, go right ahead. If you find concepts of your own mind or of those who proclaim wonderful "truths" to your excited mind to be more stimulating than what you cannot understand, then it is YOUR choice to go there.



The objecy of your faith is poor. Your faith cannot work for any good. God did not make us in His image. He made Adam in His image. Adam fell and lost his Spirit. He could only procreate after his own kind. Dead in Spirit means children also dead in Spirit.

There is nothing you and I agree on! Please keep that straight. I suppose you were talking with Santa.... but I want to be clear.




No! The bible says no such thing. Yashuah told His followers not to look for the Kingdom externally but internally. He was talking to those who were BELIEVERS. Not you! Believers are given the inheritance of the Kingdom and the indwelling of His Spirit.




You do not know what love is.




No! You just used the duality of false choices that you explained the global elite use. You speak with words of the devil.




More mental masturbating rubbish. You are thrilled with your ability to put 5 good words together and create something meaningless.




Your exaggeration of 101% is a ploy of the devil. God is the only good and true object of Faith. He alone is infact the only one to trust. But you speak for the devil in denying that.Its obvious I'm not the most eloquent with words and speech to convey what I want to say at times......the right words really do escape me to get a point across without fubar'ing what I want to say.
I dont think I could have said what I think about Singular_me and her duality nonsense any better.

[Santa]

This is for B-b.




If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:1-13)

[Horn]

But the greatest of these is love.

Yes, but

[Libertarian_Guard]

When we come to the end of our life we will face it alone.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nWt_U2gEEI

True!

[sirgonzo420]

God loves playing hide and seek!


Language is more an obstacle than a tool in this arena.


Poetry is as close as one may come, and a poet I am not!


Also, I love you all, from Spectrism to Santa.


This may seem a paradox (c'est la vie, n'est-ce pas ?), but you are all on the right road.

[Santa]

Yes, sir gonz. The beauty, meaning and value in life is dependent upon all of us.

And B-b is on the right road as well.

Even though it heads precipitously down,... it's still the right road for B-b. ;D


But that comment needs to be qualified with a little background.

From a mythological and symbolic standpoint, the Hero always goes down into the pits of hell
to retrieve the holy grail (truth) and complete the quest.

Spectrism is merely offering a little impetus to help him along on his journey.

So the mystery is, will B-b complete his quest for truth and return (reborn) as the famous great Barnacle Bob,
or will he disappear into the dark caves and caverns like some pathetic Gollum creature fondling his precious?

[Spectrism]

Actually Santa- you are not far from truth. Consider this:

1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit to you, my child Timothy, according to the prophecies going before concerning you, that you might war the good warfare by them,
1Ti 1:19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having thrust away, made shipwreck concerning the faith,
1Ti 1:20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan, that they may be taught not to blaspheme.


1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, you being gathered together with my spirit also, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Hell is breaking loose in the lives of some people on this thread. If they wise up, they will know the right way to turn and choose life. If they are fools, they will continue down the wrong road.

[BarnkleBob]

@ALL.... Arguendo for the moment, I propose a truce between the DIVISIION of our programmed beliefs & opinions...And I further contend we begin seeking who or what is behind the DIVIDE & CONQUER strategy.... cui bono? With that stated PLEASE take the time to completely view the WELL-DOCUMENTED video below.... I not only think but believe that WE all have been bamboozled including myself... I also believe that REGARDLESS of our individual personally held beliefs & opinions that the subject matter presented in the video requires GREAT analysis... secondly I think & believe that proper analysis will reveal who & what is the greatest organized enemy of mankind.... to wit: THE CATHOLIC BIBLE DECEPTION @ beforeitsnews.com beforeitsnews.com/religion/2012/12/the-catholic-bible-deception-2446846.html Further, let me also state that while I may not agree nor ever adopt the concepts & beliefs stated in the many threads & posts contained herein, I assure you I would risk the casualty of MY life & limb to defend YOUR RIGHT to believe & express your beliefs in any form or way to accomplish your happiness & station in life... but only for as long as your beliefs & opinions DO NOT interfere or subjugate me and my vision & version of seeking happines .& truth.... IMO we should direct our energy towards oUr real enemy instead of fighting over THEIR programming.... this doesnt mean I wont discuss, debate or argue issues I believe to be incorrect.... with all due respect.... BB

[Santa]

Bob, I don't have the bandwidth to view those vids. Do you have a link to a written version?

[BarnkleBob]

@Santa... I looked but did not find any direct written text of the vid.... its well worth watching if you get the chance... as a holder in due course of some very olde books I can testify that modern versions are altered & changed... at best they are colored at worst they are many times fraudulent!

[Spectrism]

Bob, I don't have the bandwidth to view those vids. Do you have a link to a written version?

The video discusses the tampering of the bible translations by vatican and Jesuit hitmen. Christianity has been falsely attacked for many centuries with accusations of hypocrisy, whereas the true christian Church is not Roman or protestant or orthodox or any other human organization. I have always (last 27+ years) held that the Church is invisible, universal and timeless. It spans history, has no face, spans all countries and has one Head- the Messiah.

[Santa]

The Church is invisible, universal and timeless. It spans history, has no face, spans all countries and has one Head- the Messiah.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Horn]

I wholeheartedly agree.

I've never seen the "invisible church", or westernized salvation.

may be my bandwidth?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAqaZrRjx0M



Oh father high in heaven -- smile down upon your son
whose busy with his money games -- his women and his gun.
Oh Jesus save me!
And the unsung Western hero killed an Indian or three
and made his name in Hollywood
to set the white man free.
Oh Jesus save me!
If Jesus saves -- well, He'd better save Himself
from the gory glory seekers who use His name in death.
Oh Jesus save me!
I saw him in the city and on the mountains of the moon --
His cross was rather bloody --
He could hardly roll His stone.
Oh Jesus save me!

[Neuro]

The video discusses the tampering of the bible translations by vatican and Jesuit hitmen. Christianity has been falsely attacked for many centuries with accusations of hypocrisy, whereas the true christian Church is not Roman or protestant or orthodox or any other human organization. I have always (last 27+ years) held that the Church is invisible, universal and timeless. It spans history, has no face, spans all countries and has one Head- the Messiah.
What is your relation to the bible version(s), that you have read?

[Spectrism]

What is your relation to the bible version(s), that you have read?

I would agree with the video that BB posted. I was raised Roman Catholic but left it when too many contradictions popped up in my mind. When I questioned various things, I did not get good answers. But in order to even ask the questions, I had a supernatural experience that sparked a reality into my mind.

Most organized religions are led by the deceived. Still, there are some good bits of information to be found among the deceptions. You need new eyes and true ears to filter out the good from the bad.

[BarnkleBob]

Invisible Church\Church Invisible http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_church

[Horn]

Invisible Church\Church Invisible http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_church

As a matter of fact, I think you've been saved by this post, Bob.

Let me know what day of the week the invisible scripture will be read, I will show up with my invisible Holy Rollers Band...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vLuqSxPu4c

Cold aeroplanes, slow boats, warm trains
Remind me of Jack-A-Lynn.
Lush hotels and pretty girls
Won't share the misty mood I'm in.
Silly, sad, I've never had
To write this before.
Oh, Jack-A-Lynn.

Funny how long nights alone
And thoughts of Jack-A-Lynn.
When phantoms tread around my bed
To offer restless dreams they bring.

And it's just the time and place to find
A sad song to play
For Jack-A-Lynn.

Magpies that shriek, old boots that leak
Call me the Jack-A-Lynn.
Cold black cats in policeman's hats
Nosing where the mice have been.

And the lonely hours, forgiving now,
And I'm far, far from home.
A Jack-A-Lynn.
Jack-Jack-A-Lynn.

[Santa]

Take another gander at the Devil. The hotshot who built the Church of the World.

The demiurge is a concept from the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy for an artisan-like figure responsible for the fashioning and maintenance of the physical universe. The term was subsequently adopted by the Gnostics. Although a fashioner, the demiurge is not necessarily thought of as being the same as the creator figure in the familiar monotheistic sense, because both the demiurge itself plus the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal, or the product of some other being, depending on the system.

The word "demiurge" is an English word from a Latinized form of the Greek δημιουργός, dēmiourgos, literally "public worker", and which was originally a common noun meaning "craftsman" or "artisan", but gradually it came to mean "producer" and eventually "creator". The philosophical usage and the proper noun derive from Plato's Timaeus, written c. 360 BC, in which the demiurge is presented as the creator of the universe. This is accordingly the definition of the demiurge in the Platonic (c. 310 BC-90 BC) and Middle Platonic (c. 90 BC-300 AD) philosophical traditions. In the various branches of the Neoplatonic school (third century onwards), the demiurge is the fashioner of the real, perceptible world after the model of the Ideas, but (in most neoplatonic systems) is still not itself "the One". In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. Accordingly, the demiurge is malevolent, as linked to the material world."

[Tumbleweed]

I would agree with the video that BB posted. I was raised Roman Catholic but left it when too many contradictions popped up in my mind. When I questioned various things, I did not get good answers. But in order to even ask the questions, I had a supernatural experience that sparked a reality into my mind.

Most organized religions are led by the deceived. Still, there are some good bits of information to be found among the deceptions. You need new eyes and true ears to filter out the good from the bad.

Spectrism I don't believe my past is so much different than yours and I too had a supernatural experiance. The book the "Plot against the church" was an eye opener for me and has helped me uderstand much when it comes to attacks on the catholic church. It has been infiltrated by many who are working to destroy christianity. At the local level the catholic church I attend is about the teachings of Jesus Christ and following those teachings. At the higher levels of the church I have doubts about many who claim to be catholic.

[Horn]

the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. Accordingly, the demiurge is malevolent, as linked to the material world."

Goatskin Leather: A beautiful and very durable top quality, natural grain leather. Strong yet supple, it is used for the finest Bible bindings. Traditionally known as Morocco leather. This is the most expensive of Bible bindings, Cambridge Bibles of England (http://www.cambridgebibles.com/ME2/Audiences/Default.asp) (US Dist. Baker Publishing Group), and R. L. Allan Bibles of Scotland (http://bibles-direct.com/) (Allan's Bibles–Direct.com) start around $150.00 – $200.00 for Highland Goatskin in a KJV. Cambridge has a U.S. distributor, if you want one. R. L. Allan has a direct order department from Glasgow Scotland, and is a better more economical source than its US distributors. You don't have to question the quality of the Bibles from either of these publisher/dealers, they are absolutely without question the best.

http://gospelbiblepaths.50webs.com/index_8.html

[Spectrism]

Spectrism I don't believe my past is so much different than yours and I too had a supernatural experiance. The book the "Plot against the church" was an eye opener for me and has helped me uderstand much when it comes to attacks on the catholic church. It has been infiltrated by many who are working to destroy christianity. At the local level the catholic church I attend is about the teachings of Jesus Christ and following those teachings. At the higher levels of the church I have doubts about many who claim to be catholic.

This is another whole topic. It is not something that should be undertaken in this thread.

[Spectrism]

As a matter of fact, I think you've been saved by this post, Bob.

Let me know what day of the week the invisible scripture will be read, I will show up with my invisible Holy Rollers Band...



Can you be any more moronic?

Did you not know that all concepts are invisible, yet their substance is inherent?

I say I belong to the invisible Church as I would say I belong to the invisible Tea Party or the invisible conservatives. It is a conceptual and in the Church mode familial relationship that is not visible outwardly as if it only applied to those who met a certain building every week.... or those who had their names listed on a membership role in a county office. The membership of the Church is known spiritually and may be seen manifesting physically.

[BarnkleBob]

@Santa.... DEMI-URGOS: Demi = half, Urgos = maker or the Demiurgos is the half-maker. http://gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

[Horn]

Can you be any more moronic?

Did you not know that all concepts are invisible, yet their substance is inherent?

I say I belong to the invisible Church as I would say I belong to the invisible Tea Party or the invisible conservatives. It is a conceptual and in the Church mode familial relationship that is not visible outwardly as if it only applied to those who met a certain building every week.... or those who had their names listed on a membership role in a county office. The membership of the Church is known spiritually and may be seen manifesting physically.

My "moronism" can only be topped by the purely imaginative Willy Wonka Wondervision World as posted above.

Do you wear red heels you click together when Toto gets skittish? God created the world so his subjects could live and practice over the imaginary rainbow...?

Practicing nihilism is a better definition for the invisible church.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2pt2-F2j2g

[BarnkleBob]

I highly suspect that many facets of religious writings describe the physics of the universe, for instance the trinity describes an atom\adam... a proton (positive), neutron (neutral) & electron (negative)... seems like Satan the evil one describes the electrons decay rate... and Adamas fall & the "fallen ones" appear to describe "panspermia" a.k.a. the bio-seeding of the universe via comets & asteroids....

[BarnkleBob]

"Life was first brought to Earth in the form of bacterial cells by comets nearly four billion years ago. The subsequent evolution from single-celled microbes to the marvellous tapestry of life we see today was dictated by later additions of bacterial and viral genes from comets. This is the essence of the theory of cometary panspermia first developed by Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe over 30 years ago, and published in a long series of articles in Astrophysics and Space Science and in several monographs..********Sequencing of the human genome in recent years has revealed the amazing fact that nearly 50% of the DNA is in the form of viral (DNA) inserts. Modern humans appear to be the survivors of a very long sequence of near-extinction events caused by pandemics of viral or bacterial disease, extending over millions of years. http://www.buckingham.ac.uk/research/bcab/news

[Horn]

I highly suspect that many facets of religious writings describe the physics of the universe, for instance the trinity describes an atom\adam... a proton (positive), neutron (neutral) & electron (negative)... seems like Satan the evil one describes the electrons decay rate... and Adamas fall & the "fallen ones" appear to describe "panspermia" a.k.a. the bio-seeding of the universe via comets & asteroids....

And they're currently doing to Science with Quantum physics, what was done by Emperor Constantine and Bible creation of 400A.D.

You'll notice that many so called "pure and Biblical" Christians tow the state's line in many instances.

Well all in all they're both practicing in a tower of Apocalyptic Babel of creation.

[BarnkleBob]

@Horn.... seems logical to me that mankind faced with continual earthly destructive cataclysms would develope a macro belief & symbolic system based upon the "word" to preserve learned knowledge.... Religion transcends politics, economics & even modern science, etc. in this preservation.... looks to me as if its all about the next restart\reboot!

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qc450k.jpg

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIO0ZhxGT9M

[joboo]

http://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120623/640/daily_picdump_993_640_70.jpg (http://izismile.com/2012/06/23/daily_picdump_weekend_edition_95_pics-70.html)

4249

http://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120531/640/daily_picdump_973_640_42.jpg (http://izismile.com/2012/05/31/daily_picdump_88_pics-42.html)

[Libertarian_Guard]

The Gospel According To Luke

Chapter 3


22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.


fast foward (perhaps) 73 generations prior to this...........


38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


Kind of tough for Judaism to have passed up on all that lineage, if it was indeed true, and not continued following it along with the son's of Jesus brothers.

[BarnkleBob]

http://www.formalsweatpants.com/storage/ForbiddenFruit.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1322 078208586

[BarnkleBob]

http://i.imgur.com/NTLAk.jpg

[joboo]

^^ whoa...nice.

[singular_me]

God made us, right... but as above so below, every reality level represents The Whole. Hence we have too the **power** to create our own reality in this very physical realm. The Universe is a continual co-creation in progress. God is rather neutral... so we give him a meaning. Without conscious creatures able to witness his Work and interprete his Mind, God is absolutely nothing, it/he cannot exist.

So saying that God is all powerful is neither completely right nor wrong. We have been created to co-operate with him. This is my belief system, think what you want, thats all fine with me.

I am just sick and tired of all dogmas that have plagued Humanity: if you dont believe in mine, you cant see the truth. LOL. And many wonders why wars still exist... look no futher.

fundamentalism is "the" problem.

Best



Ok... Whatever, Circular Me. You didn't make God. God made you. End of Story.

[singular_me]

Spectrism, we are talking of God in this thread, so your apple/baseball perception argument is pointless and most likely dishonest. You and I obviously believe in Goid, such a digression cannot lead anywhere.

You know my mother was a TRUE Christian, had no problem to acknowledge the Book Of Toth, Sumerian Tablets and Egyptian Mythology, unlike you she could see the "similarities" in them with The Genesis without getting upset. She also was interested in reading about Hinduism and Paganism but firmly believed in Jesus according the early Christian faith. Before the Bible was written. She NEVER called followers from another faith "morons, etc", never. She doubted that the Christ died on the cross too from time to time but as she aged - and until her death in 2010 - she refused to find out because it didnt matter to her in the end. She was an erudite woman. With her I had the most fascinating discussions about spirituality.

I was raised with this mindset. Enough said.

Me, liking mental masturbation... another insult. Thank you :)

The bible is for me a wonderful metaphor explaining astro-physics and why our minds need to mirror this Cosmic Model to live in harmony. Thats why a picture of a brain is very similar to that of a nebula. As above so below.





When someone says "apple" you see a baseball. Your perceptions of reality are so far from truth that it is frightening.



Threatened? How do I threaten you when I say keep your head low in a battlefield? How do I threaten you when I say the bridge is washed out so don't go down that road? How do I threaten you when I say eating a diet lacking in vitamin C will kill you?

Your problem is that you like mental masturbation more than truth.

The bible is for me a wonderful metaphor explaining astro-physics and why our minds need to mirror thus model to live in harmony. Thats why a picture of a brain is very similar to a cosmic nebula. Ever thought of this?



If you are glad to have your head blown off in a battlefield, who am I to argue? If you like driving off cliffs where the bridge was washed out, go right ahead. If you find concepts of your own mind or of those who proclaim wonderful "truths" to your excited mind to be more stimulating than what you cannot understand, then it is YOUR choice to go there.



The objecy of your faith is poor. Your faith cannot work for any good. God did not make us in His image. He made Adam in His image. Adam fell and lost his Spirit. He could only procreate after his own kind. Dead in Spirit means children also dead in Spirit.

There is nothing you and I agree on! Please keep that straight. I suppose you were talking with Santa.... but I want to be clear.




No! The bible says no such thing. Yashuah told His followers not to look for the Kingdom externally but internally. He was talking to those who were BELIEVERS. Not you! Believers are given the inheritance of the Kingdom and the indwelling of His Spirit.




You do not know what love is.




No! You just used the duality of false choices that you explained the global elite use. You speak with words of the devil.




More mental masturbating rubbish. You are thrilled with your ability to put 5 good words together and create something meaningless.




Your exaggeration of 101% is a ploy of the devil. God is the only good and true object of Faith. He alone is infact the only one to trust. But you speak for the devil in denying that.

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i45.tinypic.com/65sqhs.jpg

[Horn]

fundamentalism is "the" problem.

Best

Abstract virtue is a problem also, an unwritten and "invisible" play, that has nothing to do with the world we live in.

And why so many folly around the "moron" bush.

Simon says

[BarnkleBob]

The wisdom of the 2nd Amendment not only allows us to protect ourselves from criminals & tyranical .gov but also religious zealots who would reinitiate the inquisition to enforce their rituals & dogmas....

[Libertarian_Guard]

The wisdom of the 2nd Amendment not only allows us to protect ourselves from criminals & tyranical .gov but also religious zealots who would reinitiate the inquisition to enforce their rituals & dogmas....

Well, if you want to make an omelette.......

[Spectrism]

God made us, right... but as above so below, every reality level represents The Whole. Hence we have too the **power** to create our own reality in this very physical realm. The Universe is a continual co-creation in progress. God is rather neutral... so we give him a meaning. Without conscious creatures able to witness his Work and interprete his Mind, God is absolutely nothing, it/he cannot exist.

YOUR god is neutral. YOUR god is meaningless. You do not know YHWH.
You have power to create your own reality? LOL.... yeah sure.



So saying that God is all powerful is neither completely right nor wrong. We have been created to co-operate with him. This is my belief system, think what you want, thats all fine with me.


You do not co-operate with God. When is the last time you created a galaxy? How about a new species of plant? Maybe you created a new form of energy? Do you really think you can create something better than God?




I am just sick and tired of all dogmas that have plagued Humanity: if you dont believe in mine, you cant see the truth. LOL. And many wonders why wars still exist... look no futher.
fundamentalism is "the" problem.

You are a walking dogma... one that is bent on bizarre beliefs with no evidence. Your faith is based on nothing but your own mental wanderings. Your problem is that you disrespect fundamentals. You clearly did not like fundamental math and science.



Spectrism, we are talking of God in this thread, so your apple/baseball perception argument is pointless and most likely dishonest. You and I obviously believe in Goid, such a digression cannot lead anywhere.

No, I don't believe in Goid. Is that the god of the void?



You know my mother was a TRUE Christian, had no problem to acknowledge the Book Of Toth, Sumerian Tablets and Egyptian Mythology, unlike you she could see the "similarities" in them with The Genesis without getting upset. She also was interested in reading about Hinduism and Paganism but firmly believed in Jesus according the early Christian faith. Before the Bible was written. She NEVER called followers from another faith "morons, etc", never. She doubted that the Christ died on the cross too from time to time but as she aged - and until her death in 2010 - she refused to find out because it didnt matter to her in the end. She was an erudite woman. With her I had the most fascinating discussions about spirituality.


If the foundation of a spiritual belief does not matter, how does one qualify as an adherent to that belief?



I was raised with this mindset. Enough said.


You said it!



Me, liking mental masturbation... another insult. Thank you :)

Well... I presumed you like it because you do it so much. Maybe you don't like it. I could be mistaken.



The bible is for me a wonderful metaphor explaining astro-physics and why our minds need to mirror this Cosmic Model to live in harmony. Thats why a picture of a brain is very similar to that of a nebula. As above so below.

A nebula is a violent collection of battering particles subject to the whims of energy fields and their own propensities. Do you really mean to say that your mind is so nebulous?

[BarnkleBob]

“Scientists do not join hands every Sunday and sing "Yes gravity is real! I know gravity is real! I will have faith! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about the concept.”--Dan Barker

[BarnkleBob]

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. ~Dresden James~

[Libertarian_Guard]

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. ~Dresden James~


http://i45.tinypic.com/34qk5rm.jpg

[Spectrism]

“Scientists do not join hands every Sunday and sing "Yes gravity is real! I know gravity is real! I will have faith! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about the concept.”--Dan Barker


Why would scientists do that? They don't have a perfect God to worship. You have no idea what worship is. Your works will be rewarded by your master as he laughs at your torment in hell.

[BarnkleBob]

Especially for you Spectri: http://markswillis.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/atheist-vs-christian.jpg

[Spectrism]

For someone who does not exist, you sure seem preoccupied with making sure everyone knows what you believe.

You are not beyond using lies, distortions, misrepresentations, mischaracterizations and deceptions to "prove" God does not exist. I don't believe liars.


You know.... it just struck me. You are very much like Obama, Pelosi, Harry Reid.... and whole host of other demoncrats. Tell me what you think of your messiah Obama.

[Horn]

Your works will be rewarded by your master as he laughs at your torment in hell.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

[BarnkleBob]

"Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own?" - Robert G. Ingersoll

[BarnkleBob]

You see, the religious people -- most of them -- really think this planet is an experiment. That's what their beliefs come down to. Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen's wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can't say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that. Why can't the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence. If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a shithead, maybe she would've listened to him more. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition. [Sol Hadden in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 285.]

[Spectrism]

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Where did you steal those words from? huh?

And what are you using them to do?

They will burn you because you do not know how to handle them. Your hands will burn and your skin will peel.

[BarnkleBob]

@Horn.... Spectris make believe invisible super-natural friends from his make believe invisible church are going to make believe & invisibly burn you up for quoting make believe scriptures! LMAO

[Horn]

Your hands will burn and your skin will peel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Meh6DIzHpgc

[BarnkleBob]

If God is “good” in the same way that he biblically expects us to be “good”, then he should act to prevent such calamities as killer hurricanes, tsunamis, tornados, ice storms and accidents of every kind, etc. The mere fact that such calamities persist provides empirical evidence that he either does not exist or he is not God in the sense that his biblical believers have portrayed him to be. In fact as a matter of observable evidence there is no expectation that the world should be a good place or a bad place, or even that evil should not exist, or that good should exist. While the believers claim they KNOW their G-d, the Athiest on the other hand claim to KNOW the universe exploded into existence from nothing! I claim they are both wrong, and further claim we DO NOT KNOW SHIT concerning either G-d or the creation!

[Horn]

I claim they are both wrong, and further claim we DO NOT KNOW SHIT concerning either G-d or the creation!

You must've missed my thread on Cicero.

This is all we should've learned by now.


http://vimeo.com/30277616

Helluva time for the desert God's arrival, huh?

[Spectrism]

If God is “good” in the same way that he biblically expects us to be “good”, then he should act to prevent such calamities as killer hurricanes, tsunamis, tornados, ice storms and accidents of every kind, etc. The mere fact that such calamities persist provides empirical evidence that he either does not exist or he is not God in the sense that his biblical believers have portrayed him to be.


LOL... big words for such a small mind. This has been explained to you and other many times. This world is allowed to temporarily go into the choices of man. There is coming a reckoning when God will wipe this slate clean and deal harshly with people like you who in on breath mock Him and the next deny His existence. You can't have both... is He or isn't He? Your confused little mind rages against the very God you deny exists. I would say that make you certifiably a nutcase. I just gave you the empirical evidence.




In fact as a matter of observable evidence there is no expectation

What evidence is not observable? Your hyperbole is silly. Then you cite nothing (no expecttion) as your observabel evidence!!! LOL... you are one confused little demented puppy.



that the world should be a good place or a bad place, or even that evil should not exist, or that good should exist. While the believers claim they KNOW their G-d, the Athiest on the other hand claim to KNOW the universe exploded into existence from nothing! I claim they are both wrong, and further claim we DO NOT KNOW SHIT concerning either G-d or the creation!

You got the last line right for your own case.... but you cannot generalize for others.

[Spectrism]

We are about to see earthquakes, volcanoes, raging oceans and events in the sky that will make you atheists start digging holes in the ground to hide yourselves. It won't be long before the torments hit you and you will mock the God you have been denying exists. In all the warnings you have received and in all the calamities sent to you that you would wake up, you still blindly stab out at the God who alone can provide what you need.

Some of you want to do more than define "fool".... you want to give examples too.

[Horn]

What's this fascination with calling everyone Godless Heathens?

http://media-cache-ec3.pinterest.com/upload/129689664239829302_HAVyREek_b.jpg

[Spectrism]

What's this fascination with calling everyone Godless Heathens?

http://media-cache-ec3.pinterest.com/upload/129689664239829302_HAVyREek_b.jpg

You have been warned in the strongest language. Your blood is upon your own hands.

[BarnkleBob]

@Horn.... have your hands caught fire & the skin on your arms peeled off yet? Didnt think so.... Spectri I would advise returning back to the dead sky gods school for further advanced demi-god training... your threats dont work as intended. Thanx for your warnings... I take them as seriously as if the warnings come from a follower of Zeuss, Thor, Isis or Athena, etc., et al. You guys been giving out warning since the beginning of humanity, so when 1 in a million hits you milk it, but you never mention the 999,999 misses... sheesh talk about zero credibility!

[Bigjon]

We are about to see earthquakes, volcanoes, raging oceans and events in the sky that will make you atheists start digging holes in the ground to hide yourselves. It won't be long before the torments hit you and you will mock the God you have been denying exists. In all the warnings you have received and in all the calamities sent to you that you would wake up, you still blindly stab out at the God who alone can provide what you need.

Some of you want to do more than define "fool".... you want to give examples too.

This has happened many times in the past and was caused by a near passing large planetary sized comet. Some will say god sent it, but the more logical people will say that happenstance sent it.

I suggest you listen to James McCanney (http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/) who discusses these things.

[gunDriller]

If God is “good” in the same way that he biblically expects us to be “good”, then he should act to prevent such calamities as killer hurricanes, tsunamis, tornados, ice storms and accidents of every kind, etc


God doesn't have time to babysit. Or, perhaps, has the time but chooses not to.


When human beings build towns on barrier reefs, how can they act surprised when a big storm destroys their fram built home ? (e.g. Hurricane Sandy)


When human beings build nuclear power plants in the "Ring of Fire", siting them close to the ocean in an area with a history of tsunami's - over-riding the warnings of experienced nuclear engineers - how can they act surprised when a big quake turns their hubris into a monumental disaster ? (Fukushima)


I could go on. April 20, 2010 - BP Disaster. etc.


God does not protect people from Murphy's Law.

[BarnkleBob]

SOMETHING put EVERYTHING in motion, that something is probably known by the language as G-d... the fact that many misunderstood cataclysims & disasters occur around the world indicates to me that the portrayal & understanding of the G-d concept is erroneous & problematic.... as for building nuke plants on fault lines, that sheer callousness & stupidity! JMO

[Santa]

Some will say god sent it, but the more logical people will say that happenstance sent it.


It seems to me that logic would lead people to understand that there is no such thing as happenstance, or coincidence.
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." This is the logic by which we logistically function.
In other words, logic dictates that everything occurring now in the Universe has to have had an original source of action from which set the reaction in motion, logically requiring that if even one coincidence occurs within the chain of reactions, then all motion must then become coincidental.
There's no logical way out this cosmological conclusion, except through speculating or imagining multiple universes or infinite space and time. But those things are based on faith, not logic.

This is why the mental exercise called logic is flawed. It requires an end at the end of the Universe, historically expressed in giving a face, or persona to God.

God is the original action of the Universe. The prime directive of existence. God is inexplicable, but profoundly ordered.
So much so, that in all the Time that the Universe has existed, it has been running perfectly, never seizing, never faltering, never ending.

[Santa]

Atheists believe that Logic will ultimately bring about the salvation of Mankind, thinking they're clever to cut God out of the equation, but really they're only giving God another name.

[Horn]

@Horn.... have your hands caught fire & the skin on your arms peeled off yet? Didnt think so....

Spectrism's curse only got partly through, the work internet router was filled up with Costa Rican ants today, had to bang those suckers outta there...

Thank goodness for firewalls...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdlS7tab5rQ

Ps. I feel like I'm in a spaghetti western and just dodged a blank...

[Bigjon]

It seems to me that logic would lead people to understand that there is no such thing as happenstance, or coincidence.
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." This is the logic by which we logistically function.
In other words, logic dictates that everything occurring now in the Universe has to have had an original source of action from which set the reaction in motion, logically requiring that if even one coincidence occurs within the chain of reactions, then all motion must then become coincidental.
There's no logical way out this cosmological conclusion, except through speculating or imagining multiple universes or infinite space and time. But those things are based on faith, not logic.

This is why the mental exercise called logic is flawed. It requires an end at the end of the Universe, historically expressed in giving a face, or persona to God.

God is the original action of the Universe. The prime directive of existence. God is inexplicable, but profoundly ordered.
So much so, that in all the Time that the Universe has existed, it has been running perfectly, never seizing, never faltering, never ending.

Everything is planned, is what I hear you saying.

Where is free will?

The universe is not fixed in stone.

[BarnkleBob]

define free-will...

[Bigjon]

define free-will...

We have another believer, all hail the mighty specter.

[Santa]

Free will is an interesting concept. Something like the invisible church. You have to believe in it before it matters.

There are really only two forms of governance. Church or State. Internal or external. Mind or body.

When State rules, it offers free will in place of salvation.

[Bigjon]

Free will is an interesting concept. Something like the invisible church. You have to believe in it before it matters.

There are really only two forms of governance. Church or State. Internal or external. Mind or body.

When State rules, it offers free will in place of salvation.

Gee, I thought it was banana's or corn flakes for breakfast.