Will Congress Target 401K Plans In Fiscal Cliff Debate?

[AndreaGail]

WASHINGTON, D.C. (WUSA) --- Workers in the pension industry spend much of their time urging clients to plan for the future, and they are now following their own advice with a pre-emptive public relations campaign aimed at stopping congress from limiting benefits for popular 401K savings programs.

"Everyone is talking about the fiscal cliff and how we're going to deal with this deficit and potential tax reform. Since we represent the retirement industry, we're concerned that tax reform may catch 401 K plans accidentally, and potentially harm the retirement security of working Americans," said Brian Graff, CEO of the American Society of Pension Professionals and Actuaries.

The society has a website with animation showing a retiree being hit by lightning as a narrator warns that Congress could change 401K benefits.

"We're trying to raise concern about this now, before they get into specifics so we want to head this off at the pass and make sure they understand the last thing we need to do is inhibit the ability of people to save for retirement," Graff told 9News.

Currently, workers can contribute as much as $17,000 a year to 401K plans and defer tax payments on that contribution until they take the money out of the plan in retirement. Graff worries that could change as congress looks for money to prevent the country from driving over that financial fiscal cliff at the end of the year.

"They (Congress) could limit your ability to put money in the plan. They could limit the value of the deduction. They could cap the deduction in a way that would inhibit your
ability to save for retirement," he said.

61 million Americans contribute to 401K plans, 80 percent of them grossing less than $100,000 a year.

"This is not the rich man's savings plan," Graff said.

35-year-old Ben Krasney is a public relations professional who has made 401K contributions for eight years.

"It's a legitimate discussion, given that the whole tax code is up for review, but, as an individual taxpayer and somebody who wants to save for retirement, I certainly enjoy the benefits of 401 K deductions. It certainly encourages individuals like me to save into a 401K," he said.

And if the tax benefits were taken away?

"That would certainly change things. If there is no incentive to contribute now versus saving for later, if there is no difference, you might as well hold onto your money now and buy something you want now or hold onto it in other types of investments," Krasney told 9News.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/231101/158/Will-Congress-Target-401K-Plans-In-Fiscal-Cliff-Debate

[chad]

http://www.examiner.com/article/government-considering-socializing-retirement-accounts

they just met about it around a month ago. google "pension rights center."

the angle is that "it is not fair" that the "rich people" have so much in their 401k accounts while "workers" don't have any money saved or are losing their "rights" to a pension because of company closings. logically, the only solution is to spread the wealth around and "include" everyone in a "fair system."

in 1933 they confiscated gold because that's where the "money" was at. where is the "money" in 2012? private retirement accounts. there's trillions of $ laying around. they will find a way to get at it. the "it's not fair" angle seems to be working well lately.

[madfranks]

we're concerned that tax reform may catch 401 K plans accidentally

I can assure you, it will be no accident when they go after 401ks.

[undgrd]

The scales have tipped and entitlements will bleed the Republic dry at an ever accelerating pace. Anyone under 50 who thinks 401K will remain in tact until they retire will probably feel...

- Shock or Disbelief
- Denial
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Guilt
- Depression
- Acceptance and Hope


...in this order...number 7 may never come though.

[osoab]

Does anyone bring up to the sheep that it's a possibility that 401k's and IRA's will be taken?

I always get great reactions.

[chad]

Does anyone bring up to the sheep that it's a possibility that 401k's and IRA's will be taken?

I always get great reactions.

my cousin is a financial advisor. he gets really angry when i bring it up. like he wants to start a fight because "i'm stupid" to think that. it's "irresponsible" for me to talk like that because people might listen to me.

[undgrd]

My BIL does pension plans and retirement accounts. Surprisingly, when I asked him about the possibility of government takeover or new laws governing these accounts, he said it's been talked about. He didn't seem to think it would happen but it could.

When I asked about other places to park money, I got the Bonds and Cash response I was expecting.
:rolleyes:

[osoab]

My BIL does pension plans and retirement accounts. Surprisingly, when I asked him about the possibility of government takeover or new laws governing these accounts, he said it's been talked about. He didn't seem to think it would happen but it could.

When I asked about other places to park money, I got the Bonds and Cash response I was expecting.
:rolleyes:


Ask him what happens to Money Markets when they get revalued if you get a chance.

It Ain’t Money-Good No More (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-11-27/it-ain%E2%80%99t-money-good-no-more)

[osoab]

my cousin is a financial advisor. he gets really angry when i bring it up. like he wants to start a fight because "i'm stupid" to think that. it's "irresponsible" for me to talk like that because people might listen to me.

I throw it back at them that this has publicly been discussed by the slimeballs in power.

Then I bring up the 100yr treasury bonds. Even the sheep see through that idea.

[Dogman]

You can bet your sweety's booty they will!

[madfranks]

Does anyone bring up to the sheep that it's a possibility that 401k's and IRA's will be taken?

I always get great reactions.

I brought it up with my previous firm's accountant, and he seemed pretty indifferent to it, like it wouldn't be a big deal if it happened.

[osoab]

I brought it up with my previous firm's accountant, and he seemed pretty indifferent to it, like it wouldn't be a big deal if it happened.


Did he have any of his own "money" in a 401?

[mick silver]

what ever they take will be for the kids . to me if this was to happen people would start to lose it then

[madfranks]

Did he have any of his own "money" in a 401?

Yeah, he just had faith that if the gov't took it over that they would be responsible and trusted stewards of his account.

[mamboni]

Does this mean that those of us in private industry get to share the fat juicy public pensions with the teachers, police and government employees? Did I just here a collective shreek?

[undgrd]

Does this mean that those of us in private industry get to share the fat juicy public pensions with the teachers, police and government employees? Did I just here a collective shreek?

Not only that but, it's now all but impossible to fire anyone from their job...just like teachers, police, and government employees! Should I raise the Greek flag, or would you like the "honor"?

[PlatinumBlonde]

The scales have tipped and entitlements will bleed the Republic dry at an ever accelerating pace. Anyone under 50 who thinks 401K will remain in tact until they retire will probably feel...

- Shock or Disbelief
- Denial
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Guilt
- Depression
- Acceptance and Hope


...in this order...number 7 may never come though.

Yeah, number 7(acceptance and hope) will not happen but Smith and Weson will..

[Errosion Of Accord]

About a year ago the company had one of the T.Rowe Price guys in. I told him that I had an 84% return on my other investment. At first he was dumbfounded then he realized where my money was parked, got pissed, then proceeded to talk down the metals. I just grinned at him then bitched that we didn't have a commodities option in our 401K. I put in enough to take the match then take loans against my vestment, buy silver and pay myself back the interest. It may collapse on me but I can't leave the match laying on the table. I know it is a gamble but at least I can keep more metal this way.

[Sparky]

About a year ago the company had one of the T.Rowe Price guys in. I told him that I had an 84% return on my other investment. At first he was dumbfounded then he realized where my money was parked, got pissed, then proceeded to talk down the metals. I just grinned at him then bitched that we didn't have a commodities option in our 401K. I put in enough to take the match then take loans against my vestment, buy silver and pay myself back the interest. It may collapse on me but I can't leave the match laying on the table. I know it is a gamble but at least I can keep more metal this way.

The big money comes into gold when these investment guys can no longer tolerate hearing stories about other people earning 84% in precious metals, and start hopping on board the bandwagon. I have a friend who's a financial planner and investment adviser, and I tell him to let me know when he starts to get a lot of inquiries about precious metals. He said it's still very rare.

I did get one tipoff from a relative of mind to whom I had been recommending precious metals investing for years. She said her financial planner FINALLY advised her to get some exposure to mining/metal equities (not real metal) a few years ago, but she was lamenting because she thought she was too late to the game because gold was already approaching $1000.

[madfranks]

I have a friend who's a financial planner and investment adviser, and I tell him to let me know when he starts to get a lot of inquiries about precious metals.

And you, in turn, will tell us, right? :D

[undgrd]

...let me know when he starts to get a lot of inquiries about precious metals. He said it's still very rare.


And you, in turn, will tell us, right?


We'll hear about it the same time everyone else does...from MSNBC's Fast Money when THEY tell people it's not a dumb investment.
:rolleyes:

[mamboni]

The big money comes into gold when these investment guys can no longer tolerate hearing stories about other people earning 84% in precious metals, and start hopping on board the bandwagon. I have a friend who's a financial planner and investment adviser, and I tell him to let me know when he starts to get a lot of inquiries about precious metals. He said it's still very rare.

I did get one tipoff from a relative of mind to whom I had been recommending precious metals investing for years. She said her financial planner FINALLY advised her to get some exposure to mining/metal equities (not real metal) a few years ago, but she was lamenting because she thought she was too late to the game because gold was already approaching $1000.

My hunch is that $2000 gold is the trigger. That's when a mass of people waiting on the sidelines rip their investment advisors new assholes for discouraging or not recommending investment in gold. When $2000 gold happens, a whole lot of folk are going to say to themselves "gold bubble my ass! The f'ing liars on the TV have been saying we're in recovery and we sure as shit ain't. They said gold was in a bubble at $800. I'm getting on the gold train now, while the going is good."

[chad]

My hunch is that $2000 gold is the trigger. That's when a mass of people waiting on the sidelines rip their investment advisors new assholes for discouraging or not recommending investment in gold. When $2000 gold happens, a whole lot of folk are going to say to themselves "gold bubble my ass! The f'ing liars on the TV have been saying we're in recovery and we sure as shit ain't. They said gold was in a bubble at $800. I'm getting on the gold train now, while the going is good."

if i had a dollar for every time i heard my cousins say "there's tons of money on the sidelines right now, and that money doesn't want to be in gold, it's looking for stock deals," i could pay for the gs-us server fo 10,000 years. whenever i ask him in what vehicles all of this "sidelines" money is parked in, i get "well,..."

[mick silver]

smart money never leaves gold are silver , never i say . all one has to do is to look at the very rich ones with gold vaults under there homes

[1970 silver art]

I think that it is safe to say that just about every major every major financial item (401-K tax deductions, mortgage deduction, raising taxes, entitlement reform/cuts, gov't spending cuts, etc.) is on the table during the "fiscal cliff" talks. However, nothing has changed after the election since we still have the same WH administration, the same Republican controlled House of Representatives, and the same Democrat controlled Senate. In other words, we will have the same partisan bickering and no deal in the "fiscal cliff" talks will happen IMO. We will more than likely fall victim to the cliff since there will probably not be any sort of resolution on or before December 31, 2012.

[AndreaGail]

If I had a dollar for every email I have gotten at my job "We see that you haven't enrolled in the companies 401k plan...."

[madfranks]

If I had a dollar for every email I have gotten at my job "We see that you haven't enrolled in the companies 401k plan...."

Save 1/10 oz gold eagles or other small denomination bullion in a jar hidden in your house and you'll be better off. That's what I do.

[Sparky]

The big money comes into gold when these investment guys can no longer tolerate hearing stories about other people earning 84% in precious metals, and start hopping on board the bandwagon. I have a friend who's a financial planner and investment adviser, and I tell him to let me know when he starts to get a lot of inquiries about precious metals. He said it's still very rare.
...

UPDATE: My friend called this week and said he has a substantial investor who wants to invest a portion of his assets in physical gold. My friend told him that's a reasonable thing to do. Then he (my friend) asked me to accompany him to a dealer so that he could better understand the whole process of buying physical gold, since he wants to be an informed financial adviser. He wanted to know about price, process, premium/spread, privacy, choices, etc. So we did that.

So the dealer handed my friend a 1-ounce American Gold Eagle. My friend's eyes lit up. "It's beautiful." Then he raised it up and down in his open palm. "It's so heavy." He was totally captured by the allure. Very cool experience. Now he's thinking of buying some for his own children.

[Twisted Titan]

That's why they are going after the guns......

Once they get them....they can steal with absolute impunity