Why the Su-27 is the most incredible aircraft ever designed

[midnight rambler]

For one thing, the Russians managed to get the wing of the Su-27 (and MiG-29 which shares the same wing) *perfect* for the application, rendering the aircraft "smarter than the pilot".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5VXttYF1A

[midnight rambler]

Before anyone tries to say, "Oh, but that presentation is strictly from a very biased Russian perspective" I say, "No, it's not."

Here's a western perspective from a British Harrier test pilot -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkiB8IH6QVk

[7th trump]

Who really cares......really!
The dumb ass soviets are retarded to think that aircraft will have any effect on electronic warfare.
EMP's are not futuristic dream weapons any more......... very real.
A rocket (cheap) launched from a US aircraft detonates a directional EMP towards one of these pieces of (over priced) toto dancing junk and it's bye bye electronics and that russian piece of crap cant stay afloat without electronics.
We all seen these types of aircraft take nose dives straight for the ground.
Dog fighting was over when WWII ended.
Aircraft are out dated.
Cheap 1000mph missiles that turn on a dime that are launched from the shoulder of a GI is the future of conventional warfare....and now we have EMP technology strapped to a bottle rocket.
Way to go communism....your four decades to late.

[midnight rambler]

The dumb ass soviets are retarded to think that aircraft will have any effect on electronic warfare.


Clearly you worship the beast, yet you're in denial about that. The 'Soviets'/Communists are now in control of the USSA, yet apparently your very acute case of rectal cranial inversion prevents you from seeing that.

This thread is about how, as an aircraft, the Su-27 is in a class by itself with respect to performance, handling/flight characteristics, reliability, and safety. The Su-27 is the only jet fighter which will fly itself out of a completely uncontrollable flat or nose-down spin (usually caused by too high of an angle of attack aka high 'alpha'), the only thing necessary for that to happen is that the pilot allow the controls to 'go neutral' by letting go of the controls. In fact there was one instance early on in the development and testing of the Su-27 in the early '80s where the pilot bailed out after his Su-27 went into an 'out of control' spin, the Su-27 that he had just bailed out of leveled off into normal flight DIRECTLY after he bailed out and continued flying until it ran out of fuel. The 'west' has NEVER designed a flying machine as pure as this one and likely never will. The Russians didn't get it 'right' at first, they lost two test pilots, yet they persisted and continue to develop the Su-27 family of aircraft to this day.

7th trump it appears that the source of your HATRED of the Russians and all things Russian (including what they've accomplished) is that you're just pissed off at 'em 'cause of your own Bible-thumping ways, and for that I think you suck.

[Cebu_4_2]

think you suck.

Hahaha... TYS

[General of Darkness]

I want one.

[midnight rambler]

I want one.

Well, you and I both missed the opportunity 'cause in 2009 Pride Aircraft refurbed two Ukrainian Su-27UB combat trainers which had been decommissioned (stripped of all military components including the heavy radar equipment in the nose) rendering both of them the *quickest* two-seat jet aircraft in the world. The price for either at the time: a mere $6 million for a bird with fresh engines which originally cost $40 million each.

First flight of N131SU (check the size, it's enormous) -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4lE6HcBPxw

N131SU leisurely climbs out to FL100 in 54 seconds, view from back seat (first flight again, note camcorder self-mutes at 0:10 when one afterburner is fired) -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRA0wczZS3U

Su-27UB ride-along, dunno if this is N131SU or sister ship N132SU -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHsoo9B029o

[midnight rambler]

Pride Aircraft's webpage showing off their two Su-27UB projects -

http://prideaircraft.com/flanker.htm

[Horn]

What about payload, overall number and radar capabilities?

Aren't you somewhat out of your class even suggesting that anyone can compete with "The Great Satan!"

I'm calling you biased, (though its nothing personal)

its like comparing apples to oranges, Apples being far superior though :)

We won't have the same discussion when comparing Ak's to M's though, its hands down there.

[midnight rambler]

What about payload, overall number and radar capabilities?

Aren't you somewhat out of your class even suggesting that anyone can compete with "The Great Satan!"

I'm calling you biased, (though its nothing personal)

its like comparing apples to oranges, Apples being far superior though :)

We won't have the same discussion when comparing Ak's to M's though, its hands down there.

Anyone who *objectively* compares all the aircraft knows the score.

Did you even bother to view the video with the Harrier test pilot talking about the Su-27?

[Horn]

Anyone who *objectively* compares all the aircraft knows the score.

Did you even bother to view the video with the Harrier test pilot talking about the Su-27?

Again as with your tiny T-tanks, I'm offering you the knowledge of the numbers and available payload.

Which in the end game, is our means of comparison.

Why are you comparing 1 to 1, when you should be comparing 3 to 2.

4179

Ps. she's too beautiful a thing, to be turned into dust amongst the clouds. :)

[gunDriller]

Who really cares......really!
The dumb ass soviets are retarded to think that aircraft will have any effect on electronic warfare.
EMP's are not futuristic dream weapons any more......... very real.
A rocket (cheap) launched from a US aircraft detonates a directional EMP towards one of these pieces of (over priced) toto dancing junk and it's bye bye electronics and that russian piece of crap cant stay afloat without electronics.


one of my last projects for a large American defense contractor was to put back in the EMI shielding that was removed by the non-genius who worked on Revision 2 of the primary system electronics (Computer + Radio).

Revision 1 had EMI but was full of million-dollar band-aids ... Revision 2 they tried to do a cost reduction - by removing the EMI shielding, among other things.

My job on Revision 3 was to put the EMI shielding back in without going into "million dollar band-aid" territory.

the non-genius who removed the EMI shielding on Revision 2, also had a SUPERVISOR - who had a MANAGER - who both oversaw the, ommm, multi-million dollar attempted cost reduction/ destruction of the Revision 1 design, when they did the Revision 2 design ... which I was then asked to fix with the Revision 3 design.


i'm talking about AMERICANS. when it comes to Keystone Cops behavior relative to design of EMP and EMI shielding, the Americans take the Silver medal ... and maybe the gold.


the Russians would have to fvck up quite diligently to out fvck-up many of the American engineers - and managers - who work on the aircraft that compete with the SU-27.

but extreme EMI-shielding and related (attempted) EMP proofing of electronic systems on aircraft like the SU-27 is not that difficult (to me). it just requires some knowledge of physics, and an extremely thorough approach.

whether or not the Russians can do better in this regard than the Americans is mostly a function of the management of the engineers doing the work.

the American managers have proven that they have considerable aptitude for fucking up a simple task - simple but perhaps not easy, because you have to be so thorough.


i have not worked inside the big Russia electronics conglomerate that does a lot of the electronics design work for aircraft like the SU-27. but, having seen how the Americans approach such tasks, i would have to bet that the Russians do a better job EMP-proofing their planes.

[midnight rambler]

The first Su-27 prototype, the Sukhoi T-10-1, had some very severe problems but the Russians kept hammering away at it until they got it right. Not only that, was kinda homely looking.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/2/7/1267728.jpg

[midnight rambler]

she's too beautiful a thing, to be turned into dust amongst the clouds. :)

GunDriller gets it, and sees it for what it truly is - the MIC is all about profit, NOT about the most bang for the buck and genuine defense. The 'defense' angle is STRICTLY for cover.

And my point is apparently lost on you as I don't give a flip-flying fuck about who can shoot down whom, all I'm interested in is pure performance. Which btw, the one-off P-42 Su-27 STILL holds all* the time to altitude records 25 years later.

*with the one exception of the 0-20,000 meter record still held by the F(ugly)-15 Streak Eagle

[gunDriller]

in order to do a proper simulation (short of a genuine confrontation between the US & Russia), the fighter plane's "Entourage" must also be factored in.

they typically carry with them an EA6B, a big lumbering not-so-fast plane jammed full of electronics. for American pilots it is standard to say, "not going anywhere without my EA6B".

one of the many kinds of electronic warfare that the EA6B used to carry is "Doppler Shift" radar. it catches an 'enemy' radar signal and gives it a time/ phase shift, and then re-broadcasts it, so that enemy radar will pick up 2 planes.

in the case of a true stealth fighter - one with very little radar reflection - the fake electronic image might be stronger than the real one.

and that's an OLD trick. although the combination of Stealth + Doppler shift is not so old - maybe 20 years old.


it's possible that the Americans have the lead on EW equipment. they sure spend enough money on it ! the Zio-war-toy-boyz LOVE spending money on military electronics. which is great for people that make $100 connectors.

since we're on the subject - how about China ? they have been given most of the world's manufacturing technology. they have $trillions in reserves. their reputation for cheap crappy shit is largely a result of cost pressure - which usually doesn't exist on military hardware - where (at least in the US) the pressure is to spend more, not less.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/china-air-force-drills_n_2256712.html?utm_hp_ref=world

[midnight rambler]

Part 2 of 4 of the video in the OP, an objective view of the design flaws of the Su-27 prototype -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVZbHYDX6ZY

[Horn]

GunDriller gets it, and sees it for what it truly is - the MIC is all about profit, NOT about the most bang for the buck and genuine defense. The 'defense' angle is STRICTLY for cover.

Of course war is about business and design is also about productivity.

If there ever was a need for direct need for competition when production ramps up,

most perfect designs become imperfect due to the rush.

[midnight rambler]

Of course war is about business and design is also about productivity.

If there ever was a need for direct need for competition when production ramps up,

most perfect designs become imperfect due to the rush.

The MIC designed and manufactured the F(ugly)-15 and were pretty much done with it - no further major development nor improvement.

The MIC killed the best fighter the US had, the F-14.

The Russians have never stopped developing the Su-27 and that development process continues today - while the Su-35 looks nearly identical to the earliest production Su-27 the Su-35 is substantially different. The Su-35 not only has more powerful engines than previously versions of the Su-27, it also has 3D differentially operating thrust vector control, something the POS $400+ million F-22 cRaptor does not have and never will. (The cRaptor only has 2D TVC which is limited to tandem operation)

[Serpo]

I still prefer these.................http://daily3d.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/day08_paperplane.jpg

[Horn]

O'cmon the raptor is much more kool & future alien like,

its got to be better than your ancient and 76' curvy corvette design...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTypIHLqG2I

Ps. you know I just like pokin your war toy... :)

[gunDriller]

i wonder if they're going to bring back the Comanche attack helicopter.

certainly there were some lessons learned on the F-22 that benefited the Comanche.


but then they went & cancelled the Comanche - and built ANOTHER jet fighter (JSF) ?!

seems like they got one too many new jet fighter model (F22 + JSF/F35), and one too few new helicopters.

instead they're just 'upgrading' the Apache.

i wonder what politics went into the decision. about the time Boeing got stiffed with the Comanche cancellation, they moved their headquarters to Chicago.


what, to be closer to Jew headquarters or something ?

but Lockheed etc. are tossing Boeing a few bones here and there.

[Horn]

but then they went & cancelled the Comanche - and built ANOTHER jet fighter (JSF)

Could be they just moved everything underground, and we only see half of what they have...

remember that secret aircraft piece found at Obama Bin Laden's house?

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2011/05/06/1226051/150004-news-file-osama-helicopter-20110506.jpg

[Glass]

I still prefer these.................http://daily3d.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/day08_paperplane.jpg
paper cut, paper cut!

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBt-aQ1vObM

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=GUlHhKvIX3w&NR=1

[midnight rambler]

gawddammit, why do you have to post clearly inferior money-grubbin' MIC shit on my thread - why be an ASSHOLE?!?!?!?!?

[Horn]

Incredible means nothing unless you have a comparison.


Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says



Russia’s T-50 stealth fighter prototype (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06/video-vlad-putins-stealth-fighter-takes-flight/), the first radar-evading warplane outside the U.S. when it debuted in January 2010, is slightly less stealthy than the American F-22 and about equal to the smaller F-35. But in several other respects the new warplane from the Russian Sukhoi design bureau is actually superior to the American models.

That’s the surprising conclusion of the first-ever public scientific analysis (http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2012-03.html) of the T-50′s Radar Cross-Section (RCS), completed this week by Dr. Carlo Kopp, an analyst with the independent think tank Air Power Australia.

“The shaping of the T-50 is inferior to that of the F-22 Raptor,” Kopp writes in his dense, jargon-heavy report. But the F-35 and T-50, he adds, exhibit “similar … RCS behavior.”

But Kopp’s assessment of the T-50 comes with caveats. Quite a few of them, actually. To match the stealthiness of the Lockheed Martin F-35 (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/f-35-gets-stealthier/) — to say nothing of the company’s F-22 — Sukhoi’s engineers will have to, among other changes, modify the T-50′s engines to a less obtrusive fitting andadd a layer of radar-absorbing material to the plane’s skin.

With the revised engines and skin, the T-50′s “specular RCS performance will satisfy the Very Low Observable (VLO) requirement that strong specular returns are absent in the nose sector angular domain,” Kopp writes. Translated into plain English, Kopp’s saying that an optimized version of the Russian jet could be very, very difficult to detect by most radars as it’s bearing down on them...



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1ad_1353198000

[midnight rambler]

You fucking moron, this thread is NOT about the T-50, it's solely about the Su-27 - i.e. until you came along and took a giant shit on it.

[Horn]

You fucking moron, this thread is NOT about the T-50, it's solely about the Su-27 - i.e. until you came along and took a giant shit on it.

Gee, You are sensitive, I had thought beauty knows no pain?

The title states "most incredible" which would declare a direct comparison.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71sIrc0IbFE

Ps. Don't get your panties in a bunch. :)

[steyr_m]

whether or not the Russians can do better in this regard than the Americans is mostly a function of the management of the engineers doing the work.

I'm an Avionics Tech. When I was in college [in 05-06], I was told that Russian military still used tubes. It makes a lot of sense since tubes are not effected by EMP.

I don't know how true it is, or how much they are used; but if it is true, they are more durable [and Russians are known to make durable stuff] than what the US makes. Look at all the problems the F-22 is having....

[Horn]

I'm an Avionics Tech. When I was in college [in 05-06], I was told that Russian military still used tubes.

That was most likely an insult to Russian technology. F-22, F-35 have been designed to deliver those EMP attacks.

Here we have a link in one scrollable page of the entire timeline of Russian tech. achievements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_inventions_and_technology_reco rds