Pakistan mob burns man accused of desecrating Koran alive

[joboo]

So how exactly do 200 people get this idea in their heads, then go lynch a complete stranger based on an assumption?


-----------

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/12/22/pakistan-blasphemy-idINL4N09W04720121222?type=companyNews&feedType=RSS&feedName=companyNews

"A mob broke into a Pakistani police station and burnt a man accused of desecrating the Koran alive, police said Saturday, in the latest violence focusing attention on the country's blasphemy laws.

The man was a traveller and had spent Thursday night at the mosque, said Maulvi Memon, the imam in the southern village of Seeta in Sindh province. The charred remains of the Koran were found the next morning.

"He was alone in the mosque during the night," Memon said. "There was no one else there to do this terrible thing."

Villagers beat the man then handed him over to police.

A few hours later, a crowd of around 200 stormed the police station, dragged the man out and set him on fire, said Usman Ghani, the senior superintendent of police in Dadu district.

Ghani said around 30 people had been arrested for the murder and seven police detained for negligence.

At least 53 people have been killed in Pakistan since 1990 after being accused of blasphemy, according to the Center for Research and Security Studies, and accusations are becoming more frequent."

[vacuum]

So how exactly do 200 people get this idea in their heads, then go lynch a complete stranger based on an assumption?

Someone had to be lynched. The best way to make sure you aren't the one getting lynched is to be one of the lynchers.

[midnight rambler]

Meanwhile 300+ million people remotely kill brown people with drone strikes without batting an eye.

[joboo]

Meanwhile 300+ million people remotely kill brown people with drone strikes without batting an eye.

If a mob of people are willing to do that to a stranger over a book, and they think they are glorifying their god, maybe there's more to it?

How do you reason with people willing to behave like this?

Seems to have a lot to do with the book.

Not sure how that event could be faked if it was.

[midnight rambler]

If a mob of people are willing to do that to a stranger over a book, and they think they are glorifying their god, maybe there's more to it?

How do you reason with people willing to behave like this?

Seems to have a lot to do with the book.

Not sure how that event could be faked if it was.

Gawd I love irony.

[vacuum]

I'm sure it was a real event, but I think it has more to do with a certain phenomena of mass psychology than any specific doctrine.

Perhaps it has something to do with ignorance + intolerance. The two seem to go hand-in-hand: the more ignorant one is, the more intolerant one is and vice versa. (my personal observation/conclusion). When it goes too far you have these kill or be killed scenarios because of the feedback loop of intolerance and fear.

The only way to combat this type of thing is embody the opposite qualities. Instead of being ignorant, understand that you truly don't know everything. Once you do that, you can tolerate other people and perhaps even tolerate damage to your own ego/beliefs (like when the koran was burned).

This behavior helps solve the fundamental communication problem (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?65683-Exercise-in-Logic&p=594075&viewfull=1#post594075). Imagine if each of these individual pakastanis that burned that guy were each running a computer program. Well, unfortunately their algorithm crashes when someone burns a koran and they start burning people and destroying stuff. Even if it's a miscommunication. It's because they aren't fault tolerant. Because they are ignorant (ie, their algorithm is incomplete/has bugs in it). However, if their algorithm was instead fault tolerant and didn't crash when they encounter a bug, but instead was adaptive and self-healing, then their culture could progress.

Therefore, try to tolerate others' (perceived) faults without going off the deep end.

But I believe tptb want us to be reactive and ignorant. It makes us easy to control. We keep crashing and failing as a group (continually done by them intentionally), and they are the only ones left who can provide the solutions.

[Serpo]

Group insanity for what ever reason is this.

People banding together in a common belief can create mass hysteria until it infects everyone and the crowd goes off.Unfortunately the crowd is wrong in this case but being caught up in mass madness is losing yourself to an ideology or belief, which becomes more important then the death of someone, which is weird as it is a religion.

Its not the religion thats important but the belief in it .

What does it prove.......that religion sends some people insane

[collector]

If a mob of people are willing to do that to a stranger over a book, and they think they are glorifying their god, maybe there's more to it?

How do you reason with people willing to behave like this?

Seems to have a lot to do with the book.

Not sure how that event could be faked if it was.

At least they are trying to show reverence to a spiritual higher power, unlike people that kill indiscriminately because some are deemed to be terrorists or insurgents http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=f213b73d647e

[Blink]

At least they are trying to show reverence to a spiritual higher power, unlike people that kill indiscriminately because some are deemed to be terrorists or insurgents http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=f213b73d647e


Fucking makes me ill to watch that. Seeing them target a wounded guy for 15 secs or so and since he moved, racked him again. "Oooh yeah, got him". Gutless fuck would probably puke and shit his pants if he had to go see the results of his work up close......... fucking kids playing video games. People better wise up soon or .... ahh fuck it.

[Santa]

Instead of being ignorant, understand that you truly don't know everything.

Yes! Exactly!
Understanding this is the intellectual beginning of wisdom.

[joboo]

It's almost as though some of you are making excuses for this behavior?!

Traveling though, decide to stay in a public building, you get accused of blasphemy, are beaten, tossed in jail, and burned alive....in the name of god.

Anyone want to trade places with the guy, and claim well.... you know...it's just their thing. You just gotta respect it.

Book burning is a death sentence?

Sorry this is about as crazy as it gets.

These people are on an entirely different level of demented....and they got there reading the same book.

[joboo]

Gawd I love irony.

You equating a book with what exactly?

Right or wrong out the window but...

Resources of an entire country for people to live = a book?

Is that really irony? Are they really the same thing?

[midnight rambler]

You equating a book with what exactly?

Right or wrong out the window but...

Resources of an entire country for people to live = a book?

Is that really irony? Are they really the same thing?

You're not really that dense are you?? ???

I'm referring to belief systems, book or no book. Wacko extremists/zealots come in ALL flavors.

One bumper sticker I've seen reflecting a predominant belief system in the states: God bless our troops especially our snipers

[joboo]

You're not really that dense are you?? ???

I'm referring to belief systems, book or no book. Wacko extremists/zealots come in ALL flavors.

One bumper sticker I've seen reflecting a predominant belief system in the states: God bless our troops especially our snipers

I was wondering, but ok

Who in the West (or anywhere else really) is lynching people after (allegedly) making fun of their religion?

Where are you hearing about this?

[midnight rambler]

Ok, I get it - you really are that dense.

I submit you're about to get a very stark lesson in this sort of brutality over belief systems right in your neighborhood in the foreseeable future (if the gungrabbers persist in their drive to deprive us our 'belief system' in the BoR).

As only one example: Larry Pratt chuckles at that POS limey Prick Morgan's EXTREMELY ridiculous rabid approach to gungrabbing (not allowing him to respond, interrupting him, yelling at him) and Prick Morgan becomes even more rabid "Sir, you shame your country."

Tell me how this shit is any different from someone being burned alive over 'making fun of someone's religion' -

@~2:40


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avOV6_42xe4

[joboo]

Ok, I get it - you really are that dense.

Sooooo the US is in the middle east because they hate the bible. They burned some, and insulted Jesus? That would be irony.

Is this what you are saying?

Are you even saying the same thing anymore, or will it keep changing?

[collector]

Who in their right mind would travel in a heavily religious, foreign country and burn their most sacred book ?? It seems like this guy was poking a stick in a hornet's nest trying to get a reaction - he was successful. Their laws, culture and people are totally different than ours and that's why you get different reactions. We can sit here and condemn they way we live just like they can condemn the way we live. Possession of pot can get you decades in jail where in other countries it's no big deal.
look at the backlash for simply asking for an investigation into a mass murder, false flag attack - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceGwQSYjbQ8

Again, complaining that the guy deserved different treatment - what are we doing to thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq ? Judge jury and executioner because some pilot determines that a backpack is a weapon or a camera is an RPG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0. Oops. sorry, oh well...

If the mental vision that's so troubling is a guy getting dragged, beaten and burned - how about the vision of wounded people crawling to get away from a helicopter firing 30mm guns at them AND all the rescue personnel !? Their crime being walking in public with what appeared to be a gun

[joboo]

Who in their right mind would travel in a heavily religious, foreign country and burn their most sacred book ?? It seems like this guy was poking a stick in a hornet's nest trying to get a reaction - he was successful. Their laws, culture and people are totally different than ours and that's why you get different reactions. We can sit here and condemn they way we live just like they can condemn the way we live. Possession of pot can get you decades in jail where in other countries it's no big deal.
look at the backlash for simply asking for an investigation into a mass murder, false flag attack - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceGwQSYjbQ8

Again, complaining that the guy deserved different treatment - what are we doing to thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq ? Judge jury and executioner because some pilot determines that a backpack is a weapon or a camera is an RPG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0. Oops. sorry, oh well...

If the mental vision that's so troubling is a guy getting dragged, beaten and burned - how about the vision of wounded people crawling to get away from a helicopter firing 30mm guns at them AND all the rescue personnel !? Their crime being walking in public with what appeared to be a gun


So you think extremely harsh laws are ok elsewhere but, completely abhorrent where you live?

I don't know about you, but I like to travel, and not be accused of maybe doing something with no proof whatsoever, no legal system, then executed on the spot....over a book mind you.

Are you actually listening to what you are saying?

We're talking about a book here, and civilians in society (in a church no less). Not wars, and war zones, with standing armies.

[midnight rambler]

Deserves its own post -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceGwQSYjbQ8

[joboo]

We're talking about a book here, and civilians in society (in a church no less). Not wars, and war zones, with standing armies.

[joboo]

Deserves its own post -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceGwQSYjbQ8

Are you lowering yourself to posting some random mocking video because your fingers, and mind, are unable to eloquently make sense any more?

[midnight rambler]

Somehow I think due to your bias you're never going to get it.

Is there an issue with radical Islamists? No doubt, just as there's an issue with fundie 'Chrisssstian' zealots (read: Christian Zionists who BELIEVE the Chosenites are God's most awesome humans on the face of the earth) who take pleasure in having their cannon fodder INDISCRIMINATELY kill brown people in the sandbox.

Of course the root of all this nonsense is Z tribe members who the #1 shit-stirrers in this world.

[midnight rambler]

Are you lowering yourself to posting some random mocking video because your fingers, and mind, are unable to eloquently make sense any more?

YOU are the persistent defender and unrepentant worshiper of the Chosenites. 'Nuff said.

[joboo]

YOU are the persistent defender and unrepentant worshiper of the Chosenites. 'Nuff said.

Interesting you make additional accusations.

Surprising I have to explain this, but....well you can't ignore one reality to uphold another. If it's the truth, and that's what you're ultimately looking for... Are you looking for it or not?

The truth, but only if it makes one group look bad? Sweep it under the rug to promote the preferred truth?

Is this what you are condoning? The convenient truth because it fits what you want to think, and still feel comfortable about it?

What kind of truth is that?

[joboo]

Somehow I think due to your bias you're never going to get it.

Is there an issue with radical Islamists? No doubt, just as there's an issue with fundie 'Chrisssstian' zealots (read: Christian Zionists who BELIEVE the Chosenites are God's most awesome humans on the face of the earth) who take pleasure in having their cannon fodder INDISCRIMINATELY kill brown people in the sandbox.

Of course the root of all this nonsense is Z tribe members who the #1 shit-stirrers in this world.

Explain to me how anyone caused 200 people to beat someone (from a church), then throw the guy in jail (a legal public establishment mind you)...and be somehow kept there until he was dragged out and torched. The cops were even in on it.

Over a book.

How did anyone else cause that by shit stirring?

[midnight rambler]

What kind of truth is that?

The truth that you remain in stubbornly persistent denial about - that the Chosenites are ultimately responsible for no peace and no justice in this world due to their mega unmitigated shit stirring.

Jesus ID'ed them as "the Synagogue of Satan" for very good reason. Why can't you see this? (rhetorical question, tribe members and their apologists will NEVER get it)

[joboo]

The truth that you remain in stubbornly persistent denial about - that the Chosenites are ultimately responsible for no peace and no justice in this world due to their mega unmitigated shit stirring.

Jesus ID'ed them as "the Synagogue of Satan" for very good reason. Why can't you see this? (rhetorical question, tribe members and their apologists will NEVER get it)

Ok, well answer post 25. How could anyone cause people to do that?

We're talking about horrifically murdering someone over a book.

How do you make a group of people do that by shit stirring?

[collector]

So you think extremely harsh laws are ok elsewhere but, completely abhorrent where you live?

I don't know about you, but I like to travel, and not be accused of maybe doing something with no proof whatsoever, no legal system, then executed on the spot....over a book mind you.

Are you actually listening to what you are saying?

We're talking about a book here, and civilians in society (in a church no less). Not wars, and war zones, with standing armies.


Whatever the law is in other countries is none of my business. I love to travel and I do research before I travel to foreign countries. I check to see what the laws are, what diseases are floating around, crime statistics, how the currency exchange works, etc. I don't travel and expect my Americanism to protect me or for others to cater to me. This is a story about a person traveling to a religious foreign country, walking into a mosque burning a holy book - are listening to what you're defending ?? Either this was grand stupidity or he did this intentionally to get a reaction. He was killed by an angry mob, not the "law".

the guy was an idiot and he got a reaction that he could have expected. What is IRONIC about this is that we kill strangers with impunity for SUSPECTED activity (from a distance of 5,000 feet away) and people in this country cheer it on, but in a case where someone provokes deeply religious people and gets an EXPECTED reaction - there's people that find this unacceptable....but keep playing Black Ops with real helicopters because they're probably guilty of something anyway.

Seriously - does this make no sense?

[collector]

Are you lowering yourself to posting some random mocking video because your fingers, and mind, are unable to eloquently make sense any more?


MR posted a video that I linked to about how theoretically civilized people get their panties in a bunch because a few people hold up a sign that they don't agree with.

[joboo]

Whatever the law is in other countries is none of my business. I love to travel and I do research before I travel to foreign countries. I check to see what the laws are, what diseases are floating around, crime statistics, how the currency exchange works, etc. I don't travel and expect my Americanism to protect me or for others to cater to me. This is a story about a person traveling to a religious foreign country, walking into a mosque burning a holy book - are listening to what you're defending ?? Either this was grand stupidity or he did this intentionally to get a reaction. He was killed by an angry mob, not the "law".

the guy was an idiot and he got a reaction that he could have expected. What is IRONIC about this is that we kill strangers with impunity for SUSPECTED activity (from a distance of 5,000 feet away) and people in this country cheer it on, but in a case where someone provokes deeply religious people and gets an EXPECTED reaction - there's people that find this unacceptable....but keep playing Black Ops with real helicopters because they're probably guilty of something anyway.

Seriously - does this make no sense?

That's fine, and acceptable to a point. There was no proof, it was merely an accusation by one person (a supposed holy man), the guy will still admitted to a public jail, and held there, and the local authorities were in on it.

All because of a book?

Can you really attempt to make excuses for this type of behavior, and not think something is desperately wrong with the scenario?

Where do you draw the line of respecting other people's rights over your own rights as a human being on this earth?

Even if it was proven beyond a doubt the guy burned a book. Nobody was harmed. Is a book more important than creation itself?

There's really no way to validate this type of behavior regardless of where it happened, and what the customs are.

[collector]

That's fine, and acceptable to a point. There was no proof, it was merely an accusation by one person (a supposed holy man), the guy will still admitted to a public jail, and held there, and the local authorities were in on it.

All because of a book?

Can you really attempt to make excuses for this type of behavior, and not think something is desperately wrong with the scenario?

Where do you draw the line of respecting other people's rights over your own rights as a human being on this earth?

Even if it was proven beyond a doubt the guy burned a book. Nobody was harmed. Is a book more important than creation itself?

There's really no way to validate this type of behavior regardless of where it happened, and what the customs are.

Still focused on this one guy vs over 1 million + Iraqis killed over fake WMD reports. I guess Stalin was right about some people A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic

Should we compare a book to a pot plant and give examples of insane prosecutions and dynamic entries where people are shot on a daily basis?

[joboo]

Still focused on this one guy vs over 1 million + Iraqis killed over fake WMD reports. I guess Stalin was right about some people A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic Should we compare a book to a pot plant and give examples of insane prosecutions and dynamic entries where people are shot on a daily basis?

You can attempt to draw alternate parallels. Are there fake books being played out somewhere here that I missed to start wars over resources?

Again were talking civilians in a supposedly civil society, in churches, with local police authorities, beating, and murdering people over books.

There is a distinct difference.

From a cultural perspective, it has a lot more to do with one guy. More in the realm of a billion+ people who are enamored by a book to the point a lot of them are complete lunatics over it.

From the pot perspective, are there black market books where people, and entire neighborhoods are getting shot up over it? Seeing lots of book crimes, and murders these days in the US?

Apples to oranges. It's a prohibition issue.

Have you forgotten the riots over the cartoons? Make no mistake many of these people are completely effing nuts, and 100% irrational.

It's reality.

You can make excuses for it, but apparently it's ok with you, and just following customs, if some Muslim cleric fanatic throws some ashes down, points his finger at you, then a mob of people lynch you.

Apparently that's not an issue here? It's to be explained away?

[collector]

You can attempt to draw alternate parallels. Are there fake books being played out somewhere here that I missed to start wars over resources?

Again were talking civilians in a supposedly civil society, in churches, with local police authorities, beating, and murdering people over books.

There is a distinct difference.

From a cultural perspective, it has a lot to do with a lot more than one guy. More in the realm of a billion+ people who are enamored by a book to the point a lot of them are complete lunatics over it.

From the pot perspective, are black market books where people, and entire neighborhoods are getting shot up over it? Seeing lots of book crime murders these days in the US? Apples to oranges. It's a prohibition issue.

Have you forgotten the riots over the cartoons? Make no mistake many of these people are completely effing nuts, and 100% irrational.

It's reality.

You can make excuses for it, but apparently it's ok with you, and just following customs, if some Muslim cleric fanatic throws some ashes down, points his finger at you, then a mob of people lynch you.

Apparently that's not an issue here? It's to be explained away?

I don't see a lot of book burning murders, nor do I hear about marijuana arrests in pakistan. The point I made is that we have different cultures, different laws and differing degrees of what's acceptable and what's not.

Making excuses - I don't care enough to make excuses, An idiot got killed disrespecting religion in a foreign country - stupidity helped thin the gene pool as far as I'm concerned. Note to self - don't travel to middle eastern countries and set fire to their holy book in front of all of them in their place of worship - I got it.

Calling these people lunatics and nuts is easy...based on whatever criteria you want to use to define them. These people are passionate, live and die defending their beliefs, in this country we volunteer our lives to kill and die for CORPORATE interests - is that more civilized and noble? You tell me, who's crazy - someone who lives and dies defending the honor of their God or someone who's willing to kill or die for whomever the ruler is of their geographic land mass ? Our Constitution and country is being destroyed from within by people who have no allegiance to the country they swear to defend. Election fraud is putting people in power that the masses don't want and wars of AGGRESSION are being fought to enrich a few select people, yet everyday kids sign up to join the military to keep the war machine going. But in your opinion THIS book burning incident is the real problem - someone's lack of government protection to torch holy books in a church or mosque.

What's your solution, should we invade Pakistan and take over their legal and judicial system, put armed guards in churches and base more US troops overseas to protect travelers wanting to burn books or desecrate churches?

[midnight rambler]

What's your solution, should we invade Pakistan and take over their legal and judicial system, put armed guards in churches and base more US troops overseas to protect travelers wanting to burn books or desecrate churches?

No, simply tripling the drone strikes should be sufficient enough to terrorize them into submission to our belief system...er, I mean persuade those stupid fucking ragheads to behave themselves and act 'civilized' like us morally upstanding 'merikans.

[midnight rambler]

Someone is straining at gnats while swallowing whole herds of camels. lol

[joboo]

I don't see a lot of book burning murders, nor do I hear about marijuana arrests in pakistan. The point I made is that we have different cultures, different laws and differing degrees of what's acceptable and what's not. Making excuses - I don't care enough to make excuses, An idiot got killed disrespecting religion in a foreign country - stupidity helped thin the gene pool as far as I'm concerned. Note to self - don't travel to middle eastern countries and set fire to their holy book in front of all of them in their place of worship - I got it. Calling these people lunatics and nuts is easy...based on whatever criteria you want to use to define them. These people are passionate, live and die defending their beliefs, in this country we volunteer our lives to kill and die for CORPORATE interests - is that more civilized and noble? You tell me, who's crazy - someone who lives and dies defending the honor of their God or someone who's willing to kill or die for whomever the ruler is of their geographic land mass ? Our Constitution and country is being destroyed from within by people who have no allegiance to the country they swear to defend. Election fraud is putting people in power that the masses don't want and wars of AGGRESSION are being fought to enrich a few select people, yet everyday kids sign up to join the military to keep the war machine going. But in your opinion THIS book burning incident is the real problem - someone's lack of government protection to torch holy books in a church or mosque. What's your solution, should we invade Pakistan and take over their legal and judicial system, put armed guards in churches and base more US troops overseas to protect travelers wanting to burn books or desecrate churches?

I don't know if you read the article, but he didn't do anything in front of anyone.

A muslim priest deduced because a book was burned, he had to be the only person that did it.

No actual evidence, or witnesses to prove the guy did anything. Judge, jury, executioner style with local police, and public mob cooperation.

There's no excusing it. There is no excuse available for it.

Hundreds of millions of people read this book, and a lot of them are lunatics over it to the point they will murder you on the spot over it.

You're excusing that behavior?

Seriously?

So what you are saying is you value people that will violently murder someone over a book, devoid of any legitimate evidence, or proper investigation?

You support that?

I think you just went against everything the US constitution stands for.

[midnight rambler]

I don't know if you read the article, but he didn't do anything in front of anyone.

A muslim priest deduced because a book was burned, he had to be the only person that did it.

No actual evidence, or witnesses to prove the guy did anything. Judge, jury, executioner style with local police, and public mob cooperation.

There's no excusing it. There is no excuse available for it.

Hundreds of millions of people read this book, and a lot of them are lunatics over it to the point they will murder you on the spot over it.

You're excusing that behavior?

Seriously?

So what you are saying is you value people that will violently murder someone over a book, devoid of any legitimate evidence, or proper investigation?

You support that?

How many camels are you able to swallow whole at one time?

[joboo]

How many camels are you able to swallow whole at one time?

Depends. When are you going to inject anything worthy of debating above clicking the thanks button?

[joboo]

I remember the cartoon riots, and the youtube video freak out that spread like wildfire, and people were murdered over. They went nuts.

Seemed like a tiny little problem indeed....over a book. That's some tiny little gnats scenario right there.

Put out the fire upstairs while one in the basement rages.

The house will surely be just fine!

[joboo]

The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, especially when they will beat, and torch you alive over your religious beliefs.

We can see "the enemy of your enemy if your friend" policy play out against the soviet union by arming the Taliban, and how well that went.

Fast forward, same policy upheld, and here we are today.

To openly support the same failed policy would appear to be the real irony here.

[joboo]

Some people blanket hate a particular group so much, that they will willingly eat glass just to get a taste of it.

Those other religious nuts?...yeah they're the good guys.

It's just their quirky customs to murder people for having different religious beliefs. Those silly guys.

...next breath....

God bless freedom of expression, and the constitution, and everything it stands for.

[vacuum]

There are an infinite number of possible belief systems and doctrines, so it doesn't make sense to criticize specific belief systems or doctrines.

For example, you have certain muslims which do burnings and beheadings for burning korans, etc. You've got judaism which basically believes most of us are a sub-race. A good chunk of christianity which has no problem bombing children (in other countries). But lets not just pick on religions! Eugenicists would like to sterilize useless eaters, based on their own personal standards. Some think 95% of us should actually die, others think it should be 100%. What about filthy communists or capitalists? Depending on your perspective, one side or the other should die. Some think that unless you are living in a shack made out of recycled plastic, and riding a bicycle to work, you are destroying the planet and are a direct threat to everyone's survival.

Instead of trying to judge which group is right and which is wrong, then try to zero in on the evil cause of their folly on a case-by-case basis, it is much more useful and effective to instead look at the common behavioral aspects. We can see the common aspect where (1) one's beliefs are believed to be correct in an absolute and final way, and (2) people with conflicting beliefs cannot be tolerated. These really seem to be the only two common traits that all of the above groups exhibit.

So how can this great evil be abolished? How can it be abolished from pakastani muslims, american zionist christians, and eugenicists? My conclusion would be that, at an individual level, people must stop implementing behaviors (1) or (2) above, or both. This is no different than a networking or communications protocol that computers use. If each node uses a protocol with certain characteristics, the entire network becomes unstable and non-functional. However, if each individual node adheres to a protocol with different characteristics then everything starts to work.

[Neuro]

At least they are trying to show reverence to a spiritual higher power, unlike people that kill indiscriminately because some are deemed to be terrorists or insurgents http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=f213b73d647e
That is sickening to watch! I noticed one interesting tidbit though, the men in Afghanistan wear quite thick wool vests, and they show up cold on the FLIR, while the arms legs and heads are hot, so a fairly thick wool suit with a wide brimmed wool hat should give some significant protection against detection by the infrared cameras... Something to consider in the future maybe?

[collector]

I don't know if you read the article, but he didn't do anything in front of anyone.

A muslim priest deduced because a book was burned, he had to be the only person that did it.

No actual evidence, or witnesses to prove the guy did anything. Judge, jury, executioner style with local police, and public mob cooperation.

There's no excusing it. There is no excuse available for it.

Hundreds of millions of people read this book, and a lot of them are lunatics over it to the point they will murder you on the spot over it.

You're excusing that behavior?

Seriously?

So what you are saying is you value people that will violently murder someone over a book, devoid of any legitimate evidence, or proper investigation?

You support that?

I think you just went against everything the US constitution stands for.

I'm done with the back and forth statements - we'll agree to disagree. Don't start making statements regarding the US Constitution and what i agree with or disagree with - this is pakistan, you should move there, burn some books and campaign for meaningful legislative change since this is really that important to you.

In the meantime - support the troops and lets hope we can invade Iran to make meaningful change in bringing evil ragheads into the 21st century of globalization, right?

[collector]

That is sickening to watch! I noticed one interesting tidbit though, the men in Afghanistan wear quite thick wool vests, and they show up cold on the FLIR, while the arms legs and heads are hot, so a fairly thick wool suit with a wide brimmed wool hat should give some significant protection against detection by the infrared cameras... Something to consider in the future maybe?

Dust and foliage blocks IR as well - a hole in the ground would seem to go a long way as would remaining imobile

[joboo]

I'm done with the back and forth statements - we'll agree to disagree. Don't start making statements regarding the US Constitution and what i agree with or disagree with - this is pakistan, you should move there, burn some books and campaign for meaningful legislative change since this is really that important to you.

In the meantime - support the troops and lets hope we can invade Iran to make meaningful change in bringing evil ragheads into the 21st century of globalization, right?

Religious nuts are religious nuts. It's really not hard to admit that. Not sure why you have such difficulty in seeing right from wrong with it.

I'm not the one who was making excuses for their behavior. Why would I want to move there?

The world is shrinking. The way people conduct themselves is coming to a point of singularity.

Take away religious nut A, and religious nut B is still there. Perhaps there's a reason certain things shouldn't be tolerated.

If you support freedom of expression as outlined in the constitution, then how do you make excuses for murdering people over religious beliefs? Your viewpoints are conflicting.

There should be no troops there, but this behavior should also not be chalked up merely to whimsical local customs...bit of a head shake on that one. Not sure how you managed it.

[Serpo]

http://coloradoindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/imagine-no-religion.jpg (http://coloradoindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/imagine-no-religion.jpg)

[collector]

Religious nuts are religious nuts. It's really not hard to admit that. Not sure why you have such difficulty in seeing right from wrong with it.

I'm not the one who was making excuses for their behavior. Why would I want to move there?

The world is shrinking. The way people conduct themselves is coming to a point of singularity.

Take away religious nut A, and religious nut B is still there. Perhaps there's a reason certain things shouldn't be tolerated.

If you support freedom of expression as outlined in the constitution, then how do you make excuses for murdering people over religious beliefs? Your viewpoints are conflicting.

There should be no troops there, but this behavior should also not be chalked up merely to whimsical local customs...bit of a head shake on that one. Not sure how you managed it.

I know, again with the "nuts" and other name calling. If we're continuing an intellectual debate then I don't see where any new points have been made. The world is not shrinking, globalization is trying to merge a variety of cultures which will never work. Some will be killed in order to pound others into this merger - if that works for you - that's your opinion that it's a good thing. I disagree - again, we agree to disagree.

Back to the constitution, OUR OWN LEADERS have abandoned the constitution years ago so to make the case for constitutional arguments seems pretty moot at this point. If you have a solution that you see to this guy's actions of desecrating a religious book then you should forward that solution to the Pakistani authorities because the way I see it he got what is to be expected given the environment in which he decided to express his beliefs. I'm sure you could also find a plethora of material for outrageous behavior in China as well - more unconstitutional behavior.

If you want the last word as it seems you do, feel free to post after mine - as I said, I'm done with the back and forth considering there's nothing new to add to this. If you're not sure how I managed something, you should re-read the posts, I'm afraid I can't help you to understand a different point of view than the one that's already solidified in your own mind.

[Neuro]

Honestly, both collector and Joboo, makes excellent points. Yes, it is not a rational belief system when people can be so aroused by an alleged Quran burning, to go to a prison, take the prisoner out and stomp him to death. But on the other hand it is incredibly stupid to do such a thing in Pakistan, where the average person is ignorant and intolerant, but very passionate about there beliefs. But I also think that the average person in the US are also ignorant and intolerant for supporting the troops and the war on terra, which has a far greater negative impact on the world, than this particular show of intolerance.

However I think the guy who got beaten to death by the mob may have been innocent of burning the Quran.

[joboo]

I know, again with the "nuts" and other name calling. If we're continuing an intellectual debate then I don't see where any new points have been made. The world is not shrinking, globalization is trying to merge a variety of cultures which will never work. Some will be killed in order to pound others into this merger - if that works for you - that's your opinion that it's a good thing. I disagree - again, we agree to disagree.

Back to the constitution, OUR OWN LEADERS have abandoned the constitution years ago so to make the case for constitutional arguments seems pretty moot at this point. If you have a solution that you see to this guy's actions of desecrating a religious book then you should forward that solution to the Pakistani authorities because the way I see it he got what is to be expected given the environment in which he decided to express his beliefs. I'm sure you could also find a plethora of material for outrageous behavior in China as well - more unconstitutional behavior.

If you want the last word as it seems you do, feel free to post after mine - as I said, I'm done with the back and forth considering there's nothing new to add to this. If you're not sure how I managed something, you should re-read the posts, I'm afraid I can't help you to understand a different point of view than the one that's already solidified in your own mind.

It really boils down to murdering someone because they might have burned a book. Reason being...that is exactly what happened here.

What is right, and wrong?

Is killing someone over such a thing justifiable? It seems you think it is. Something to be explained away. Simply thinning out the gene pool as you put it.

If you think explaining away murder is ok then you will be perpetually in the wrong about that regardless of time, place, or circumstance.

You might take notice that at no time in this discussion did I condone the same.

[joboo]

Honestly, both collector and Joboo, makes excellent points. Yes, it is not a rational belief system when people can be so aroused by an alleged Quran burning, to go to a prison, take the prisoner out and stomp him to death. But on the other hand it is incredibly stupid to do such a thing in Pakistan, where the average person is ignorant and intolerant, but very passionate about there beliefs. But I also think that the average person in the US are also ignorant and intolerant for supporting the troops and the war on terra, which has a far greater negative impact on the world, than this particular show of intolerance.

However I think the guy who got beaten to death by the mob may have been innocent of burning the Quran.

The meat of it comes down to the more primitive organisms on this planet always seem to succumb to ones that are more evolved.

Things like this story happen, and the participants just don't get it. Something about the entire theological process seems to keep people dumbed down.

They don't understand this event is going to bounce around the globe in a matter of minutes, and everyone in the world is going to see it, and react to it. (aka the world is getting smaller)

Ultimately It's so trivial, as it's just a book that was "harmed", (sticks, and stones...) but their ego's are so ultra encompassing, and indignant, it turns into a disaster. Higher thought process somehow flies right out the window.

Things like this add so much fuel to the war on terrrrrr, it's unbelievable.

Humanity will eventually evolve out of it, but it won't be for a few more lifetimes.

Scenarios like this make me think deeply of natural selection playing out in it's various forms.

[Neuro]

The meat of it comes down to the more primitive organisms on this planet always seem to succumb to ones that are more evolved.

Things like this story happen, and the participants just don't get it. Something about the entire theological process seems to keep people dumbed down.

They don't understand this event is going to bounce around the globe in a matter of minutes, and everyone in the world is going to see it, and react to it. (aka the world is getting smaller)

Ultimately It's so trivial, as it's just a book that was "harmed", (sticks, and stones...) but their ego's are so ultra encompassing, and indignant, it turns into a disaster. Higher thought process somehow flies right out the window.

Things like this add so much fuel to the war on terrrrrr, it's unbelievable.
Ed
Humanity will eventually evolve out of it, but it won't be for a few more lifetimes.

Scenarios like this make me think deeply of natural selection playing out in it's various forms.
Whether he was guilty or not is beside the point, I agree what happened to him shouldn't have happened anywhere, but I have travelled in Pakistan, a few times even, and at one point I felt threatened. I was in my buddhist stage at the time, 18 years ago. I refused to take the meat offered by an afghani guy, I could explain that I was vegetarian (which I was at the time), but when he stated there was only one god, I sort of disagreed and said I didn't know. He then asked if I was communist, and I sensed he was really passionate about it, I rejected it. I felt that it was a situation that could have escalated into something really bad if I had said the wrong answer on the last question... The thing with Pakistan is that it is a really intrinsically intolerant and uneducated society, for instance you rarely see women out in the streets at all, and if you do they have a burka on, where you don't even see the eyes. If you are so stupid as to burn a Koran in one of their mosques you deserve what you get, but it is very possible that the guy was framed, he may have just rubbed someone the wrong way. Certainly I can agree to the notion that you shouldn't be killed for something like burning a religious book anywhere, but you really do need to abide by the custom to the country you are traveling in, if you don't you may end up paying dearly for it.

[joboo]

Countries that employ religious extremist views, and religious intolerance will be crapped on perpetually by smarter human beings until they figure it out.

It's in hybrid stages atm for financial profit, but ultimately people who think like that are just too stupid to dig themselves out of it. A soon to be extinct species, either through force or evolution.

Ultimately it's their destiny. Out with the old, in with the new. Dusty old books, and the uneducated v.s. the highly educated, and technology.

A little bit of that ol' Darwinian magic.

Mankind will look back, and wonder how it was possible to think like that. Cavemen.