Pistol malfunctions

[Sparky]

I simultaneously had two malfunctions the other night at the range, and was wondering if they were coincidental or related. Shooting a Beretta 92FS which previously had been extremely reliable.

First, after the last shot in one magazine, the slide wouldn't remain open. This repeated maybe four out of five times with that magazine.

Second, with a different magazine, I kept getting a double feed about every 3rd or 4th shot.

I had never had either of these problems with these two magazines. Each was purchased new, and only had maybe 150 rounds through them previously.

The guy working at the range couldn't see anything wrong with either the gun (we broke it down) or the magazines (he pulled them apart). We ended up concluding that the gun needed a cleaning and lubrication. (He was a bit puzzled because it didn't look dirty, but he couldn't think of any other cause.)

So I cleaned and lubed yesterday, but will not have a chance to get back to the range for a while. So I was just wondering, are these typical symptoms of cleaning/lube neglect? (I'm still learning.) Do I need to lube inside the magazines?

[EE_]

Are the magazines like the military rough finish or the shiny blued?
I've heard the rough military mags collect and get dirty inside.

I have a beautiful 92F Italian made, all shiny blued mags. Not so much as a hic-up.

[midnight rambler]

I simultaneously had two malfunctions the other night at the range, and was wondering if they were coincidental or related. Shooting a Beretta 92FS which previously had been extremely reliable.

First, after the last shot in one magazine, the slide wouldn't remain open. This repeated maybe four out of five times with that magazine.

Second, with a different magazine, I kept getting a double feed about every 3rd or 4th shot.

I had never had either of these problems with these two magazines. Each was purchased new, and only had maybe 150 rounds through them previously.

The guy working at the range couldn't see anything wrong with either the gun (we broke it down) or the magazines (he pulled them apart). We ended up concluding that the gun needed a cleaning and lubrication. (He was a bit puzzled because it didn't look dirty, but he couldn't think of any other cause.)

So I cleaned and lubed yesterday, but will not have a chance to get back to the range for a while. So I was just wondering, are these typical symptoms of cleaning/lube neglect? (I'm still learning.) Do I need to lube inside the magazines?

A Glock is about the only pistol you can neglect and still rely on (but it's inadvisable).

If that's the pistol you primarily rely on then I would suggest you clean it and lube it after each trip to the range.

DO NOT PUT ANY LUBE IN THE MAGAZINES!*

*it's okay to wipe a magazine down inside and out with a cloth with oil on it to protect it from rust, just don't 'lube' a magazine

[midnight rambler]

I've heard the rough military mags collect and get dirty inside.

What you're referring to is a blued finish vs. a phosphate (parkerized) finish. Military arms use a parkerized finish (sometimes with a black enamel paint overcoat) because it's more durable and easier to maintain than a blued finish. My preference is to have a phosphate finish rather than blued for this reason (I recently pimped my Model 12 pump with a parked finish and it looks awesome).

ALL mags "get dirty inside" if exposed to dirt, how they're finished has nothing to do with it - given a choice between a blued finish mag and a phosphate finished mag I will go with the phosphate finish every time.

You definitely don't want a magazine like the one for the French Chauchat (pronounced Sho-sho) -

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/4994193_f520.jpg

[osoab]

Did you change ammo too?

[Agrippa]

I don't have a Beretta, but having the bolt fail to lock back after the last round is something I've often seen in other pistols. Glocks seem to do this a lot. I don't consider it a serious-enough malfunction to worry about.

Double-feeds on the other hand are big trouble. They start with a failure to extract, so the first place to concentrate your attention is on the extractor and its spring. Even if they look perfect, too much lube in that mechanism can mess with it in multiple ways.

I've seen ammo that was loaded too hot cause a shell that didn't want to extract. Did your shell come out easily when you cleared the chamber?

I wouldn't trust that gun for serious use until I was sure I had cured the double-feed problem.

[undgrd]

Your double feed issue could be the following. Number 3 isn't very likely, but a possibility none the less. Hope this helps.

1. A weak recoil spring that needs to be replaced.
2. Subsonic ammo.
3. A weak grip can cause a double feed or stove pipe.



With regard to the failure for the slide to lock, two ideas.

1. Have someone else fire it...like the guy from the range and see if it happens to him.
2. Verify you're not riding the slide release with your thumbs...that could cause the failure to lock.

[Sparky]

DO NOT PUT ANY LUBE IN THE MAGAZINES!*

*it's okay to wipe a magazine down inside and out with a cloth with oil on it to protect it from rust, just don't 'lube' a magazine

This is what I meant.

[Sparky]

Did you change ammo too?
I didn't change ammo, but another suspicion was this was a bad "lot".

[Sparky]

Double-feeds on the other hand are big trouble. They start with a failure to extract, so the first place to concentrate your attention is on the extractor and its spring. Even if they look perfect, too much lube in that mechanism can mess with it in multiple ways.

I've seen ammo that was loaded too hot cause a shell that didn't want to extract. Did your shell come out easily when you cleared the chamber?

No chance of too much lubrication. Only too little. That's why I'm wondering if that can also cause these types of problems.

The shell came out very easily.

[Sparky]

Your double feed issue could be the following. Number 3 isn't very likely, but a possibility none the less. Hope this helps.

1. A weak recoil spring that needs to be replaced.
2. Subsonic ammo.
3. A weak grip can cause a double feed or stove pipe.

The recoil spring seems very strong. It's a fairly new gun, with not a lot of use.

No change in ammo, but these were all from the same box, so it could potentially be a bad lot.

No responses have said, "Yeah, lack of cleaning/lube can do that." Does that mean it's unlikely the problem, or are you just trying to suggest other possibilities? I appreciate your responses.

[undgrd]

The recoil spring seems very strong. It's a fairly new gun, with not a lot of use.

No change in ammo, but these were all from the same box, so it could potentially be a bad lot.

No responses have said, "Yeah, lack of cleaning/lube can do that." Does that mean it's unlikely the problem, or are you just trying to suggest other possibilities? I appreciate your responses.

Approximately, how many rounds had been fired between the last time you cleaned and the night it malfunctioned?

[Sparky]

Approximately, how many rounds had been fired between the last time you cleaned and the night it malfunctioned?
Maybe 150 or so. But it had been a long time (close to a year), which is why I think it might have been "dry", more than dirty. Does that make any sense?

[chad]

sorry to hear this. i recommend the 92fs to everyone. thousands of rounds through mine. nary a misfire, malfunction, or jam, ever. good luck on getting it sorted out.

[milehi]

I've put thousands of rounds through a PT 92 with the only a handfull of malfunctions being due to cheap ammo.

[old steel]

You can always acquire a Ruger or S&W revolver, pretty much guarantee no misfires there.

[steyr_m]

+1 to old steel's response [he beat me to it] A revolver is more reliable than a pistol

[undgrd]

Maybe 150 or so. But it had been a long time (close to a year), which is why I think it might have been "dry", more than dirty. Does that make any sense?

Oh...yeah it probably was a little gummed up. Clean with solvent and oil. Try again.
Good Luck and please let us know what happens.

[Sparky]

+1 to old steel's response [he beat me to it] A revolver is more reliable than a pistol
Maybe so, but the 92FS has one of the lowest malfunction rates of all semi-automatic handguns. That's why I'm trying to determine if this was just "operator error" on my part.

[Sparky]

Oh...yeah it probably was a little gummed up. Clean with solvent and oil. Try again.
Good Luck and please let us know what happens.
Will do. Thanks.

[midnight rambler]

You can always acquire a Ruger or S&W revolver, pretty much guarantee no misfires there.


+1 to old steel's response [he beat me to it] A revolver is more reliable than a pistol

That's a common myth. Guns & Ammo magazine did a test some 25 years ago where they took a S&W revolver and Colt Govt. Model and placed each in box with some dirt in it and shook them both up in the box pretty much making sure the dirt got into all the nooks and crannies (individually of course). The result was that the revolver was rendered completely inoperative requiring a full disassembly by a gunsmith whereas the Govt. Model could be made to fire by pushing the slide forward when it wouldn't fully come back into battery after each shot.

[midnight rambler]

Maybe so, but the 92FS has one of the lowest malfunction rates of all semi-automatic handguns. That's why I'm trying to determine if this was just "operator error" on my part.

I'd like to see any steel framed pistol stand up to being buried for two years, then dug up and simply rinsed off with water, and continue to run this well -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj5Kcs4dzro

[undgrd]

Any update Sparky?

[Sparky]

Any update Sparky?
Have not been able to get back to the range yet. I'll let you know. Thanks for your responses.

[Sparky]

Okay, I finally got a chance to get to the range tonight. I'm happy to report that after a good cleaning, I had no problems at all tonight. Let that be a lesson to the youngsters. ;) Oh, and I still had a half-dozen rounds from the previous lot, which all fired just fine.

Thanks for all your input.