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Ares
7th January 2013, 07:35 PM
CONGRESS and President Obama have pushed through a relatively modest stopgap measure to avoid the “fiscal cliff,” but over the coming years, the United States will confront another huge cliff: Social Security.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com//images/2013/01/06/sunday-review/1216-srw-sub6-SOCIAL-190.jpg

In the first presidential debate, Mr. Obama described Social Security as “structurally sound,” and Mitt Romney said that “neither the president nor I are proposing any changes” to the program. It was a rare issue on which both men agreed — and both were utterly wrong.

For the first time in more than a quarter-century, Social Security ran a deficit in 2010: It spent $49 billion dollars more in benefits than it received in revenues, and drew from its trust funds to cover the shortfall. Those funds — a $2.7 trillion buffer built in anticipation of retiring baby boomers — will be exhausted by 2033, the government currently projects.

Those facts are widely known. What’s not is that the Social Security Administration underestimates how long Americans will live and how much the trust funds will need to pay out — to the tune of $800 billion by 2031, more than the current annual defense budget — and that the trust funds will run out, if nothing is done, two years earlier than the government has predicted.

We reached these conclusions, and presented them in an article in the journal Demography, after finding that the government’s methods for forecasting Americans’ longevity were outdated and omitted crucial health and demographic factors. Historic declines in smoking and improvements in the prevention and treatment of cardiovascular disease are adding years of life that the government hasn’t accounted for. (While obesity has rapidly increased, it is not likely, at this point, to offset these public health and medical successes.) More retirees will receive benefits for longer than predicted, supported by the payroll taxes of relatively fewer working adults than projected.

Remarkably, since Social Security was created in 1935, the government’s forecasting methods have barely changed, even as a revolution in big data and statistics has transformed everything from baseball to retailing.

This omission can be explained by the fact that the Office of the Chief Actuary, the branch of the Social Security Administration that is responsible for the forecasts, is almost exclusively composed of, well, actuaries — without any serious representation of statisticians or social science methodologists. While these actuaries are highly responsible and careful and do excellent work curating and describing the data that go into the forecasts, their job is not to make statistical predictions. Yet the agency badly needs such expertise.

With considerable help from the actuaries and other officials at the Social Security Administration, we unearthed how the agency makes mortality forecasts and uses them to predict the program’s solvency. We learned that the methods are antiquated, subjective and needlessly complicated — and, as a result, are prone to error and to potential interference from political appointees. This may explain why the agency’s forecasts have, at times, changed significantly from year to year, even when there was little change in the underlying data.

We have made our methods, calculations and software available online at j.mp/SSecurity so that others can replicate or improve our forecasts. The implications of our findings go beyond social science. As the wave of retirement by the baby boomers continues, doing nothing to shore up Social Security’s solvency is irresponsible. If the amount of money coming in through payroll taxes does not increase and if the amount of money going out as benefits remains the same, the trust funds will become insolvent less than 20 years from now.

To save Social Security, which has lifted generations of elderly people out of poverty, tough choices have to be made. One option is to continue raising the retirement age, perhaps to as high as 69 or 70. While the full retirement age is gradually increasing to 67 (for people born in 1960 or later) from 65, this increase is not enough to counterbalance the gains in longevity.

A second option is to increase payroll taxes, for example by taxing wages over $113,700, the current earnings limit. A third is to limit the annual cost-of-living adjustments, possibly by changing how those adjustments are calculated. A fourth is to reduce benefits — for example, by lowering the initial benefits for workers whose lifetime wages are above the national average (currently $43,000 a year). Other choices, in numerous combinations, are possible, too.

One factor that might be considered is new research suggesting that retirement itself, although popular, may reduce life expectancy by breaking lifelong routines and disrupting deep social connections. One might question how much government policy should actively encourage retirement, as opposed to merely making it an option.

Americans need to discuss these difficult choices — and the Social Security Administration needs the ability to improve its forecasting technology by adding statisticians and social science methodologists to help its actuaries institute more formalized quantitative and statistical procedures.

In 1983, after the last time the trust funds ran a deficit, the National Commission on Social Security Reform, led by Alan Greenspan and with members appointed by President Ronald Reagan and Congressional leaders, produced a report that led to changes in payroll taxes. But in the quarter-century since, there have been only modest changes in the program.

We know much more now about mortality and demography, and so an open debate today about Social Security’s future could be even more productive than it was then. The high levels of partisan strife may not make the present seem like the best time to reach a bipartisan agreement. But few issues are more important to more Americans, of both parties, and the longer we ignore the problem, the more disruptive any change will need to be to keep Social Security alive.

Gary King is a professor of government and director of the Institute for Quantitative Social Science at Harvard. Samir S. Soneji, a demographer, is an assistant professor at the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/opinion/sunday/social-security-its-worse-than-you-think.html?_r=0

Sparky
7th January 2013, 08:26 PM
That's all well and good, but the author makes a worse mistake: " [In 2010], it spent $49 billion dollars more in benefits than it received in revenues, and drew from its trust funds to cover the shortfall. Those funds — a $2.7 trillion buffer built in anticipation of retiring baby boomers — will be exhausted by 2033, the government currently projects.

There is no trust fund. There is no trust fund. There is a pile of non-marketable bonds that indicates how much money above new SS receipts that the government promises to pay because it already spent that much previously collected money on something else. There is no actual fund. There is a pile of promises.

General of Darkness
7th January 2013, 08:40 PM
I won't retire for another 20 years, I fully don't expect to not have any moneys left from SS, nor to still be alive or even living in this multicultural shit hole.

AndreaGail
7th January 2013, 08:48 PM
That's all well and good, but the author makes a worse mistake: " [In 2010], it spent $49 billion dollars more in benefits than it received in revenues, and drew from its trust funds to cover the shortfall. Those funds — a $2.7 trillion buffer built in anticipation of retiring baby boomers — will be exhausted by 2033, the government currently projects.

There is no trust fund. There is no trust fund. There is a pile of non-marketable bonds that indicates how much money above new SS receipts that the government promises to pay because it already spent that much previously collected money on something else. There is no actual fund. There is a pile of promises.

Amazing isnt it? that this "trust fund" is basically numbers printed on reems of paper held in binders locked in a cabinet. They probably got all the supplies at office max

http://www.peakprosperity.com/files/u4/Bush_holding_SS_bond.jpg

Glass
7th January 2013, 10:42 PM
That's all well and good, but the author makes a worse mistake: " [In 2010], it spent $49 billion dollars more in benefits than it received in revenues, and drew from its trust funds to cover the shortfall. Those funds — a $2.7 trillion buffer built in anticipation of retiring baby boomers — will be exhausted by 2033, the government currently projects.

There is no trust fund. There is no trust fund. There is a pile of non-marketable bonds that indicates how much money above new SS receipts that the government promises to pay because it already spent that much previously collected money on something else. There is no actual fund. There is a pile of promises.

Yesy, at best it's all ledgers. There is no actual fund, only a "book" (or set of books) that contains a historical record of transactions made under the same account name.

Twisted Titan
7th January 2013, 11:13 PM
There is no trust fund. There is no trust fund.There is a pile of non-marketable bonds that indicates how much money above new SS receipts that the government promises to pay because it already spent that much previously collected money on something else. There is no actual fund. There is a pile of promises.



It is absolutely amazing the level of comfort a stack of Mercury Dimes gives a person when they read something like the quote above

madfranks
8th January 2013, 07:42 AM
It is absolutely amazing the level of comfort a stack of Mercury Dimes gives a person when they read something like the quote above

I went to my dealer to buy some merc dimes, but he was all out, so I had to settle for silver Roosies instead.

chad
8th January 2013, 07:49 AM
Amazing isnt it? that this "trust fund" is basically numbers printed on reems of paper held in binders locked in a cabinet. They probably got all the supplies at office max

http://www.peakprosperity.com/files/u4/Bush_holding_SS_bond.jpg

i have this picture framed & hanging in my office. nobody gets it.

BarnkleBob
8th January 2013, 08:02 AM
It gets even worse... 1933 the fed .gov was bankrupt... FDR devised a TONTINE to raise capital & deviously called it "social security insurance." It is a TONTINE that results in your birth certificate being traded on Wall Street.... read about a Tontine: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine

General of Darkness
8th January 2013, 08:14 AM
It gets even worse... 1933 the fed .gov was bankrupt... FDR devised a TONTINE to raise capital & deviously called it "social security insurance." It is a TONTINE that results in your birth certificate being traded on Wall Street.... read about a Tontine: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine

Oh yeah, we're bonded. And people believe that they're free. AHAHAHAHAHAH

Hatha Sunahara
8th January 2013, 09:07 AM
I'd have to analyze it more thoroughly, but it would seem to me that if you take 7% of everybody's earnings, and another 7% from their employers, and it accumulates over 30 years, and if the government 'borrows' that money and pays interest on it, there would be the largest accumulation of wealth in the history of the planet. Yet they worry that it is going to be depleted?

The real danger to Social Security is the ability of the government to repay its debts. All this uncertainty about SS is based on a widespread belief that the government will never repay its debts. SS is a major portion of the National Debt--probably way ahead of the Chinese and other Foreigners. Bernanke will take care of us. We'll get our SS benefits, but they will be worthless.


Hatha

madfranks
8th January 2013, 09:48 AM
i have this picture framed & hanging in my office. nobody gets it.

Is that really a picture of the social security "trust fund"?

osoab
8th January 2013, 09:50 AM
Is that really a picture of the social security "trust fund"?


Yes

chad
8th January 2013, 09:54 AM
yep. the awesome in that picture is beyond words. think of the balls they have to pull this one off. they take 7% of millions of peoples' salaries, their employers pay another 7%, and we get a $48 filing cabinet from office depot and a $3 binder like you used in 4th grade for a science fair project.

Sparky
8th January 2013, 10:33 AM
yep. the awesome in that picture is beyond words. think of the balls they have to pull this one off. they take 7% of millions of peoples' salaries, their employere pay another 7%, and we get a $48 filing cabinet from office depot and a $3 binder like you used in 4th grade for a science fair project.

I would love to get a picture of what one of those "special issue bonds" looks like. I searched the internet, but could not find one.

Libertarian_Guard
8th January 2013, 02:40 PM
Amazing isnt it? that this "trust fund" is basically numbers printed on reems of paper held in binders locked in a cabinet. They probably got all the supplies at office max

http://www.peakprosperity.com/files/u4/Bush_holding_SS_bond.jpg



Touché

Libertarian_Guard
8th January 2013, 02:45 PM
I'd have to analyze it more thoroughly, but it would seem to me that if you take 7% of everybody's earnings, and another 7% from their employers, and it accumulates over 30 years, and if the government 'borrows' that money and pays interest on it, there would be the largest accumulation of wealth in the history of the planet. Yet they worry that it is going to be depleted?

Bernanke will take care of us. We'll get our SS benefits, but they will be worthless.


Hatha


I will not bother with a search on this, but you’ve pretty well paraphrased Bernanke’s own words!

Mouse
8th January 2013, 02:47 PM
4280

madfranks
8th January 2013, 03:31 PM
4280

The gov't just prints it on prettier paper with official looking seals and borders, but the message is the same.

osoab
8th January 2013, 03:37 PM
4280

I am surprised Ronnie could even write after he left office.

Libertytree
8th January 2013, 03:48 PM
I doubt I'll ever collect SS but...if I could convince them that I really was a crazy bastard I could get SSI, lol. Beat the rush?

chad
8th January 2013, 03:54 PM
I doubt I'll ever collect SS but...if I could convince them that I really was a crazy bastard I could get SSI, lol. Beat the rush?

you should try it! :D

Libertarian_Guard
8th January 2013, 03:57 PM
http://i46.tinypic.com/2i8zwy0.jpg

Libertytree
8th January 2013, 04:00 PM
you should try it! :D

I've heard this 4-5 times,(don't know what that says) lol but one person suggested that I'm having panic attacks because of 9/11, scared of the mooozlems! It'd really only be a half a lie:)

Libertarian_Guard
8th January 2013, 04:07 PM
I've heard this 4-5 times,(don't know what that says) lol but one person suggested that I'm having panic attacks because of 9/11, scared of the mooozlems! It'd really only be a half a lie:)

Other events scare me far more.........



http://i48.tinypic.com/fjfb4m.jpg

mick silver
10th January 2013, 07:46 AM
just dont take my free phone away . dam you all

palani
10th January 2013, 07:50 AM
All you have to do to collect social security is to cancel your account. No matter your age or what you have paid in you can apply for benefits on the cancelled account and start collecting the following day. Minimum is said to be around $500 a month.


[Note ... you could have applied for the card, received the card, cancelled the card and applied for benefits all in the space of a single week. Isn't that just precious?]

Libertytree
10th January 2013, 08:59 AM
I did some searching but all I could come up with officially is this pdf www.ssa.gov/online/ssa-521.pdf

It doesn't really go into detail about anything. I guess I shouldn't expect them to reveal the details though but where does one find them? I'll do it in a heartbeat!

Another thing, without a SSN you can't have a bank account, so where would they deposit your money? Credit Union? Send one of those SS debit cards?

palani
10th January 2013, 11:00 AM
It doesn't really go into detail about anything. I guess I shouldn't expect them to reveal the details though but where does one find them? I'll do it in a heartbeat! Mp3 file on the topic may be found here (good for 7 days)

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gbe6eb9e66333ae969991941586d838fb6cf43c 9fe



Another thing, without a SSN you can't have a bank account, so where would they deposit your money? Credit Union? Send one of those SS debit cards? I have heard of people having a bank account without a ssn although it would seem to be something you would not particularly want. Soc Security these days appear to use debit cards for their benefits.

cheka.
29th May 2016, 07:39 PM
liars saying there is no money to return to the people that have been paying in for decades. sell some of that shit you bought and put the money back

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States

The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion (1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion (852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion (723% of GDP)[a] as of Q1 2014.

Glass
29th May 2016, 07:42 PM
liars saying there is no money to return to the people that have been paying in for decades. sell some of that shit you bought and put the money back

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States

The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion (1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion (852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion (723% of GDP)[a] as of Q1 2014.

Also what is stashed in the CAFR Accounts. Not sure how much but whenever I looked it was at least the amount of the deficit's being reported by various governments, state and federal. Sometimes, as in the case of my state, it was 5 times the deficit. That was in 2004/2005 after which they stopped publishing the CAFR's.