PDA

View Full Version : Got culture shock reading this article (Japan...)



vacuum
22nd January 2013, 02:24 PM
Let elderly people 'hurry up and die', says Japanese minister



http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/1/22/1358843899026/Taro-Aso-010.jpg



Japan (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/japan)'s new government is barely a month old, and already one of its most senior members has insulted tens of millions of voters by suggesting that the elderly are an unnecessary drain on the country's finances.


Taro Aso, the finance minister, said on Monday that the elderly should be allowed to "hurry up and die" to relieve pressure on the state to pay for their medical care.


"Heaven forbid if you are forced to live on when you want to die. I would wake up feeling increasingly bad knowing that [treatment] was all being paid for by the government," he said during a meeting of the national council on social security reforms. "The problem won't be solved unless you let them hurry up and die."


Aso's comments are likely to cause offence in Japan, where almost a quarter of the 128 million population is aged over 60. The proportion is forecast to rise to 40% over the next 50 years.


The remarks are also an unwelcome distraction for the new prime minister, Shinzo Abe (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/16/japanese-election-shinzo-aide-redemption), whose first period as Japan's leader ended with his resignation after just a year, in 2007, partly due to a string of gaffes by members of his cabinet.


Rising welfare costs, particularly for the elderly, were behind a decision last year to double consumption [sales] tax to 10% (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/26/japanese-tax-rise?) over the next three years, a move Aso's Liberal Democratic party supported.


The 72-year-old, who doubles as deputy prime minister, said he would refuse end-of-life care. "I don't need that kind of care," he said in comments quoted by local media, adding that he had written a note instructing his family to deny him life-prolonging medical treatment.


To compound the insult, he referred to elderly patients who are no longer able to feed themselves as "tube people". The health and welfare ministry, he added, was "well aware that it costs several tens of millions of yen" a month to treat a single patient in the final stages of life.


Cost aside, caring for the elderly is a major challenge for Japan's stretched social services. According to a report this week, the number of households receiving welfare, which include family members aged 65 or over, stood at more than 678,000, or about 40% of the total. The country is also tackling a rise in the number of people who die alone, most of whom are elderly. In 2010, 4.6 million elderly people lived alone, and the number who died at home soared 61% between 2003 and 2010, from 1,364 to 2,194, according to the bureau of social welfare and public health in Tokyo.


The government is planning to reduce welfare expenditure in its next budget, due to go into force this April, with details of the cuts expected within days.


Aso, who has a propensity for verbal blunders, later attempted to clarify his comments. He acknowledged his language had been "inappropriate" in a public forum and insisted he was talking only about his personal preference.
"I said what I personally believe, not what the end-of-life medical care system should be," he told reporters. "It is important that you be able spend the final days of your life peacefully."


It is not the first time Aso, one of Japan's wealthiest politicians, has questioned the state's duty towards its large elderly population. In 2008, while serving as prime minister, he described "doddering" pensioners as tax burdens who should take better care of their health.


"I see people aged 67 or 68 at class reunions who dodder around and are constantly going to the doctor," he said at a meeting of economists. "Why should I have to pay for people who just eat and drink and make no effort? I walk every day and do other things, but I'm paying more in taxes."


He had already angered the country's doctors by telling them they lacked common sense, made a joke about Alzheimer's patients, and pronounced "penniless young men" unfit for marriage.


In 2001, he said he wanted Japan to become the kind of successful country in which "the richest Jews would want to live".

He once likened an opposition party to the Nazis, praised Japan's colonial rule in Taiwan and, as foreign minister, told US diplomats they would never be trusted in Middle East peace negotiations because they have "blue eyes and blond hair".


While figures released on Monday showed a record 2.14 million Japanese were receiving welfare in October 2012, Aso has led a life of privilege few of his compatriots could hope to match.


He is the grandson of Shigeru Yoshida, an influential postwar prime minister, and is married to the daughter of another former premier.
While campaigning for the premiership in 2008, Aso refused to acknowledge the use of hundreds of allied prisoners of war by his family's coal mining business during the second world war. He served as president of the firm's successor, Aso Cement, from 1973-79.

Serpo
22nd January 2013, 02:39 PM
Fukashima should speed things up

madfranks
22nd January 2013, 02:55 PM
You know that's how all the bastards in DC see us as well. Give it some time, after Obamacare is fully implemented, it will no longer be seen as the compassionate collective taking care of their own, it will be seen as people draining the state's resources with the government resentful of all these folks taking the state's money.

Ponce
22nd January 2013, 03:54 PM
The Japanese mentality is different than ours and specially those of past...many will probably killed themselves in order to help their country...................Hiroshima and Nagasaky is still in their minds and someday they will pay us back for what we did to them.........I said it before and I say it again.

If Japan had not been infected with the US culture they now would have been the number one nation in the world and their influence would had been higher than that of the Zionist.......well, almost.

V

Neuro
22nd January 2013, 05:42 PM
I do think he spoke a few points worth considering though. Why should the state pay for life extension of dying people. The families are generally asked at hospitals if they want life upholding care for their mum/dad, many says no, because they see the futility in keeping a relative who has no potential of recovering a resemblance of a decent life, while some people just can't face the reality of the situation, if that is the case let them pay for it, no reason to burden the tax payers with the bill.

Glass
22nd January 2013, 06:23 PM
I do think he spoke a few points worth considering though. Why should the state pay for life extension of dying people. The families are generally asked at hospitals if they want life upholding care for their mum/dad, many says no, because they see the futility in keeping a relative who has no potential of recovering a resemblance of a decent life, while some people just can't face the reality of the situation, if that is the case let them pay for it, no reason to burden the tax payers with the bill.

They already paid for it. The elderly paid for it with their taxed. That was the socialist deal. So to claim they are a drain is insulting.

The problem is the politicians stole the money that the elderly paid for their upkeep and now the thieves are blaming their victims. Thats psychopathic.

drafter
22nd January 2013, 06:23 PM
Neuro's post might seem a bit "heartless", but I must agree. These days some people are being kept alive with extraordinary measures that honestly do nothing but keep a person alive purely for the sake of it. All semblance of "life" is already gone.

Uncle Salty
22nd January 2013, 06:42 PM
I agree. What is the point of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars during the last six months of someone's life that is going to die anyways? It is a waste of capital. Sometimes nature should just take its course.

vacuum
22nd January 2013, 06:49 PM
It's one thing to "kind of agree" but it's another thing to say that to a nation with 1/4th of people over age 60. It takes pretty big ones to make a comment like that, and then to call them "tube people"!

Yet his comments were almost acceptable. That's a pretty hardcore nation.



And I just can't get over this one:

In 2001, he said he wanted Japan to become the kind of successful country in which "the richest Jews would want to live".
lol, wow

Shami-Amourae
22nd January 2013, 06:55 PM
Could always make more places like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FDSdg09df8

Shami-Amourae
22nd January 2013, 06:57 PM
You know that's how all the bastards in DC see us as well. Give it some time, after Obamacare is fully implemented, it will no longer be seen as the compassionate collective taking care of their own, it will be seen as people draining the state's resources with the government resentful of all these folks taking the state's money.

That's why it's super important to self-educate yourself on alternative medicines. You must become your own doctor.

Neuro
22nd January 2013, 06:58 PM
They already paid for it. The elderly paid for it with their taxed. That was the socialist deal. So to claim they are a drain is insulting.

The problem is the politicians stole the money that the elderly paid for their upkeep and now the thieves are blaming their victims. Thats psychopathic.
Actually they payed for some of their elders to die slowly, just like their children are now asked to pay for them to die slowly. The production that is being done today is what is consumed today, more or less, just because you payed for your parents to have a slow death, doesn't mean your children would (or could) want to pay for you to have that too. And frankly speaking, I doubt many parents would like to have their children to pay for their exceedingly slow death either.

Anyway just because they were fooled by socialism, doesn't mean all future generations will have to be fooled by socialism, to upkeep the promises of the socialist state given to the prior generation...

General of Darkness
22nd January 2013, 06:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh8mNjeuyV4

Serpo
22nd January 2013, 07:05 PM
To me old people are to be looked after and cared for as they came before and we after them.

Then start asking your self that if you where old how would you feel about it then.

Humans are not commodities or have a monetary value.

This guy is a Japanese finance minister and after listening to the BS they spewed out after Fukushima and still now , I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that the Japanese politicians are true puppets with a fuse missing somewhere.

madfranks
22nd January 2013, 07:10 PM
I agree. What is the point of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars during the last six months of someone's life that is going to die anyways? It is a waste of capital. Sometimes nature should just take its course.

Here's the difference. If it's your money and you want to spend it to stay alive for six more months, you should be free to make that choice. The problem is you have politicians making that choice for you, via "death panels" who will choose who gets treatment and lives, and who is denied treatment and dies. There is a very big difference between accepting that you're going to die because there's nothing more your family can do about it, versus the government denying you your "free" and universal care.

Glass
22nd January 2013, 08:08 PM
Actually they payed for some of their elders to die slowly, just like their children are now asked to pay for them to die slowly. The production that is being done today is what is consumed today, more or less, just because you payed for your parents to have a slow death, doesn't mean your children would (or could) want to pay for you to have that too. And frankly speaking, I doubt many parents would like to have their children to pay for their exceedingly slow death either.

Anyway just because they were fooled by socialism, doesn't mean all future generations will have to be fooled by socialism, to upkeep the promises of the socialist state given to the prior generation...

This is incorrect. The social saftey net was designed for me to pay in now to receive that back in the future. It was not about me paying for the previous generation and the generation after me paying for me. It was for the previous generation to pay for themselve and me to pay for me.

The fact of the matter is, as you pointed out, was that my contributions were raided and are now gone, so to cover this, the govt started raiding the next generations contributions to cover the current generation and now the widely held belief is as you described, the next generation pays for the previous generation.

And yes socialism was/is a scam and people fell for it but many were also pushed.

Neuro
23rd January 2013, 04:25 AM
This is incorrect. The social saftey net was designed for me to pay in now to receive that back in the future. It was not about me paying for the previous generation and the generation after me paying for me. It was for the previous generation to pay for themselve and me to pay for me.

The fact of the matter is, as you pointed out, was that my contributions were raided and are now gone, so to cover this, the govt started raiding the next generations contributions to cover the current generation and now the widely held belief is as you described, the next generation pays for the previous generation.

And yes socialism was/is a scam and people fell for it but many were also pushed.
No it isn't incorrect, all the consumption of elderly is provided for by the production of productive members of society, it has always been like this, but the fraudulent fiat money system, has distorted this in the eyes of the many. Sure the lies of socialists also contribute to the entitlement mentality. Most goods and all services are consumed when they are produced, or in close proximity to its production, you can't save them. Sure you can issue empty paper promises, as payment for the good or service, but there is no guarantee that they will be later honored, and it's value will be determined in relation to what the future generation produces, if honored by them...

Ponce
23rd January 2013, 08:38 AM
My dad supported me in my young age and I supported him in his old age....... and I was very proud to be able to do so... I sent to Cuba $300.00 a month that's equal to about $7,500 here in the state...........plus he was getting the higest SS from the Cuban government that there was...............as a matter of fact when he took his first SS to the bank they called the cops because they thought that it was not real ahahahaahaah.......the check was for about $35.00.

First post of the day........good morning to one and all.

V

mamboni
23rd January 2013, 09:09 AM
Fuck this elitist Aso (pronounced ASS-HOLE). The Socialists seduce the population with big promises of cradle to grave care. Then they complain when people try to collect on the promises. And yes, the government was all too happy to collect the taxes (entry fees) for these programs for years. Now it whines that the programs are too expensive because the members (who were coerced into the Ponzi scheme) are cashing in their little coupons for crumbs. Fucking corrupt incompetent dishonest lying government assholes. They couldn't run a lemonaid stand profitably if it were sitting in a lemon grove and provided with free running water. Aso!:mad:

joboo
23rd January 2013, 09:20 AM
Careful Neuro, maintaining opposing viewpoints brings the squirrels down out of the trees! ;)

re: Ponce...Kamikaze....Hari Kari...aka sepuku. The ultimate self sacrifice.

It's a different culture no doubt. Honor is considered monumental there by comparison.

vacuum
23rd January 2013, 09:28 AM
Fuck this elitist Aso (pronounced ASS-HOLE). The Socialists seduce the population with big promises of cradle to grave care. Then they complain when people try to collect on the promises. And yes, the government was all too happy to collect the taxes (entry fees) for these programs for years. Now it whines that the programs are too expensive because the members (who were coerced into the Ponzi scheme) are cashing in their little coupons for crumbs. Fucking corrupt incompetent dishonest lying government assholes. They couldn't run a lemonaid stand profitably if it were sitting in a lemon grove and provided with free running water. Aso!:mad:

Great points here, but how can you blame Aso? He's simply speaking the truth. He was brought into a bad situation (he's finance minister) and now he's just telling people the true situation which no one wants to hear.

In some respect, you have to blame the population itself. As long as they demand collectivism, no one in the government is going to stand up and say "sorry everybody, but you need to take care of yourselves". That would be political suicide. Rather, what they do is promise the people whatever they want no matter how unrealistic or unsustainable it is. Are you saying you'd do otherwise? Maybe you would, but then you wouldn't be the guy who gets elected.

You can blame the problems with the moral fabric of society on other causes possibly. Maybe people demand these things because of the media and entertainment industry? Maybe it's the corruption of their money, rewarding debt rather than generational saving. I don't know what the source of the problem is. But blaming specific individuals is potentially dangerous imo, because it's possible that this type of externalized thinking (first they are the solution, then they are the problem) is what leads to these situations. Again, I don't know.

madfranks
23rd January 2013, 10:34 AM
In some respect, you have to blame the population itself. As long as they demand collectivism, no one in the government is going to stand up and say "sorry everybody, but you need to take care of yourselves". That would be political suicide. Rather, what they do is promise the people whatever they want no matter how unrealistic or unsustainable it is. Are you saying you'd do otherwise? Maybe you would, but then you wouldn't be the guy who gets elected.

So take an even larger step back and realize that the problem is the existence of the government itself! The genesis of the state is the creation of criminals turned politicians wooing the masses with empty promises to loot their wealth and establish for themselves strongholds of power. We don't need them! Especially today, with modern technologies and communications, we do not need a government at all to "manage" us! Everything they purport to do for us, build roads, provide protection, administer law, manage health care, manage the currency, every last one, can be handled voluntarily between cooperating parties with no coercion necessary.