Social Security Sucks!

[Rubberchicken]

I got my first full paycheck for the year and now I make 1200.00 less a year because of a ponzi scheme called social security. I know what your going to say- it isn't a new increase it's just that it had been reduced from 6 to 4 per cent the last few years to help stimulate the economy. I got something they can stimulate! Ugh...
I would like to opt out of the bullshit because I was born in 64 and that's the last year for the so called baby-boomers and there isn't gonna be shit left. 30+ years of paying into the scheme and it's all upside down. Don't even want to mention the inflation rate that takes in my estimation 10 per cent already. Anyone else feel like they are getting stuck for the tab of the drunk at the other end of the bar?
Rant Over-temporarily. My wife was tired of hearing me bitch about it. FuuuuuuK me

[palani]

Not to worry. There is plenty of fiction left, more than enough for everyone and then some.

It's a good thing you aren't demanding anything of substance though.

[Rubberchicken]

My employers doesn't expect anything of substance from me either so I guess it's all good. LOL Explain to me how to opt out in simple words in simple steps. TIA

[madfranks]

My employers doesn't expect anything of substance from me either so I guess it's all good. LOL Explain to me how to opt out in simple words in simple steps. TIA

I tried to opt out. I sent their own opt out form, notarized and sent registered mail. They ignored it. I asked the HR dept if they could stop withholding SS from my pay, and they couldn't do it without authorization from SS, which never gave it to them.

[Glass]

I tried to opt out. I sent their own opt out form, notarized and sent registered mail. They ignored it. I asked the HR dept if they could stop withholding SS from my pay, and they couldn't do it without authorization from SS, which never gave it to them.

Was that something like a W40? I'm pretty sure it's a W form.

[Glass]

My employers doesn't expect anything of substance from me either so I guess it's all good. LOL Explain to me how to opt out in simple words in simple steps. TIA

I think a valid question is, do you really want to or need to opt out? Palani hinted at a viable alternative. If someone loans you something of no substance are you required to pay back with something of substance or can you pay like for like?

[palani]

LOL Explain to me how to opt out in simple words in simple steps. TIA

Social security needs to be addressed but first check carefully to see whether you own yourself. If you don't then shucking social security is a wasted effort.


There are enough clues around the internet on how to do this. Some may be better than others. If you have a handle on who you are then it is best you come up with your own remedy. My remedy probably would not be the one chosen by many people.

[palani]

I tried to opt out. I sent their own opt out form, notarized and sent registered mail. They ignored it. I asked the HR dept if they could stop withholding SS from my pay, and they couldn't do it without authorization from SS, which never gave it to them.

You (speaking to the person who signed up) will never be able to dump the account. That is because it is not your account. The most you can do is disassociate yourself with the card and the number, turn your back on it and never bring up the topic again.

This makes it hard to gain employment.

One reason to disassociate yourself from the account could be fraud. For example, if you discovered that you were not fully informed of some material matter of fact that social security was aware of. Then a simple letter hinting at fraud and a statement that you are no longer associated with the account NUNC PRO TUNC for that reason is sufficient. You are not lying then that you never had a soc sec account. You severed your connection with it and it makes no difference what THEY say.

[Libertytree]

Don't hedge anything on Palini's info, there was a SS thread a couple weeks ago and the MP3 he suggested was utterly useless as were his "hints". This talking in circles bullshit is old! Spell it out or get the fuck out.

If there really was a way out I'd take it right now but I don't think they'll let that happen, ever. Yeah, there's a form but it don't mean shit, you can wipe your ass with it.

Rubberchicken, maybe you should be grateful for what you're gettin', it's prolly more than most....not that I'd be happy either.

[Glass]

Thats the spirit LT. Don't waste time trying to comprehend something, just demand it on a platter. Do you need someone to handle the spoon for you as well? Sounds like someone needs some social security.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?66157-November-2012-Seminar-MP3s&p=606377#post606377

If FRN's are nothing more than a god damn piece of paper, then why the hell pay anything with anything more than a god damn piece of paper.

[palani]

I don't think they'll let that happen

And that statement is exactly why you are where you belong. 'Their' power is greater than your power.

Just because the desire is there doesn't mean the will is.

[zap]

Yep they will get your money one way or the other, when I did payroll the first week of the year, I warned both of the guys that their checks will be a little short, one told me yep SS tax went back to 6.2 percent, I said yes, and tell SO and So he can Thank Obama for the short check, since he voted for him.

It shorted one guy 16 a week and the other 20 a week. I don't pay any attention to my check, cause I would just walk around pissed off all the time, with all the tax I pay.

[Cebu_4_2]

I'm incorporated, everything is an expense. I have not paid myself in many many years but it doesn't mean I don't have anything.

[Libertytree]

Thats the spirit LT. Don't waste time trying to comprehend something, just demand it on a platter. Do you need someone to handle the spoon for you as well? Sounds like someone needs some social security.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?66157-November-2012-Seminar-MP3s&p=606377#post606377

If FRN's are nothing more than a god damn piece of paper, then why the hell pay anything with anything more than a god damn piece of paper.

I did waste time and no I don't want or need anything on a platter. I'm willing to jump through the hoops but please at least show me the 1st fucking hoop! That's "IF" you or anyone else that professes to know what the "hoops" are can point an ignorant fucker such as myself in the general direction?

Until you can do so with a smidge of clarity get off that high horse! Did you withdraw from SS? Are you getting the $500 minimum?

[palani]

it doesn't mean I don't have anything.


If you do have anything then it is subject to seizure. You sure you really want to be called an owner?

My assets consist of one $5 gold coin, $21 in silver dollars and the clothes on my back.

[Libertytree]

And that statement is exactly why you are where you belong. 'Their' power is greater than your power.

Just because the desire is there doesn't mean the will is.

If you're gonna quote me then please provide a link for context.(Edit: oops..my bad)........... You're high horse has a limp too, quit riding it for awhile.

Just honest, straight forward answers, is that too much to expect?

[palani]

You're high horse has a limp too, quit riding it for awhile.
My journey started around 15 years ago. It has more reason to limp.


Just honest, straight forward answers, is that too much to expect?
You are asking for a road map? Here, I will start you on your journey:


In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Start at the beginning and work your way forward.

[7th trump]

My journey started around 15 years ago. It has more reason to limp.


You are asking for a road map? Here, I will start you on your journey:



Start at the beginning and work your way forward.
Wooow palani!!
Are you really trying to tell everyone you are retard?
What a retard nonanswer!
Thats ranks right up there with your other retarded nonanswer of not being able to tell anyone how you unbecame a 14th amendment subject by saying you are under contract to not tell.
Why not just say what a lot of us already know about you.....you dont know shit, but how to recite Latin to make yourself appear "legal smart important".
Ohhh crap...I goofed.....let me throw in there "word salad legal smart important politician".

[palani]

Wooow palani!!
Are you really trying to tell everyone you are retard?
What a retard nonanswer!
Why not just say what a lot of us already know about you.....you dont know anything, but how to recite Latin to make yourself appear "legal smart important".
Did you have anything to add or just desire to display your insanity?

[7th trump]

Did you have anything to add or just desire to display your insanity?
Just following your foot steps.....I thought it might make me look smarter!

[palani]

Just following your foot steps.....I thought it might make me look smarter!

No. Just more vulgar.

[7th trump]

No. Just more vulgar.
You're calling me vulgar.....and all I'm doing is following your foot steps.......hmmmm interesting, not surprising, but interesting!

[Santa]

One thing I'm learning is that to be an employee is the same thing as being a serf, or an indentured servant. A slave essentially. You work for the benefit of your employer, not yourself.

Many think that by setting up a corporation or company and hiring employee's makes them employers, but that's not true at all. They're merely agents or employees of the State.

These so-called employers are known in southern idiom as crackers. They crack the whip out in the field for the owners up in de big house. They're just the same as the slaves they hire; only receiving a little bit larger hunk of meat on their plate, and a few worthless baubles, badges or bragging rights.

To be free from slavery requires one to become permanently "unemployed."

That is, to offer your talents to others in free enterprise. A fair exchange where both or more parties are satisfied.

An employer/employee relationship is hierarchical. Those at the top reap the benefits. Those at the bottom do the work.

If you're unemployed you don't pay taxes. You don't has no boss man, no boss woman. You be free.

But, it's a hard life being free where you can't own land.

To be free and sovereign in such a state

One must learn to inhabit the mental landscape. :|~

The mental landscape is where the philosopher kings of old have always resided.

[palani]

One thing I'm learning is that to be an employee is the same thing as being a serf

An employee is a fiduciary.

It is a trust relationship.

The employer is the beneficiary.

There never has been a case where the fiduciary takes the beneficiary to court for wrongdoing. If there is ever going to be any wrongs done it is always the fiduciary who does it.




it's a hard life being free where you can't own land.

Land is not owned other than by its creator.

[Glass]

Until you can do so with a smidge of clarity get off that high horse! Did you withdraw from SS? Are you getting the $500 minimum?

sorry mate but when people are swearing at me I'm not inclined.

Good to see 7th stepping in. Wondered how long that would take.

My thoughts:
Show me the Money
The Money is the Bill
A Statement gives rise to a Bill (thats from imperial Bills of Exchange rules (commonwealths), correlation with UCC = standardised international commerce)

He who creates a controversy provides the remedy
I want the taxman to send me a Bill.
The Bill is a controversy therefore there must be a remedy for this controversy.
The remedy is to "settle" the account.

How do I get the taxman to send me a Bill?
By only paying tax once per year.
I have to structure my affairs so I only pay tax once per year.
Why? Because this gives the opportunity for the taxman to send me a Bill.
How do I achieve this?
If I am a contractor/sole trader/company director I can do this easily.
If I am a wage earner, my wages are probably suffering from tax withholding each payday, whether it's weekly or fortnight, monthly what ever.
As a wage earner I might look for an IRS form that elinimated the withholding.
I think that is a W form. A W4 or W40 or something like that.
It goes to the employer who then does not subtract the tax amount each payday.

What next?
Because I don't trust myself or anyone else about this stuff, I myself put the tax amount to the side each and every payday. Just in case and so I can be sure I'm not gonna get burned. Hedging.

Then at the appropriate time, I file my annual tax return. I do not send in "payment" with the return.
I wait for the taxman to send me........ a Bill.
It may come in the form of......... a Statement.
A Statement gives rise to a Bill.
The Money is the Bill.

Remembering that I have also stashed the equivelant FRN's away (at least for the first couple years) in case there is a hitch.

I am not advocating NOT paying Social Security or Tax. I am just suggesting there are several ways to "settle" the account. If I can settle the account with out expending FRN's then that might be a good outcome.

How do I settle the account? I convert the Bill.

Remember this, there is no money, only negotiable instruments or Notes for short. Federal Reserve Notes are negotiable instruments. They are not money. Negotiable instruments are declared legal tender. Legal tender is the approved method of settling accounting obligations. Federal Reserve Notes are not the only form of legal tender.

The skill comes in being able to recognize Legal Tender when you see it, or how to recognize something that you can convert to Legal Tender. You also need to know how to make sure that Legal Tender is recognizable by the other party. Some other parties will readily recognize them, others will not. Some you can instruct but it can take time or just not be worth it. Some you would not do because it's not appropriate. Government claims are nearly always appropriate.

The trick is to know who can and who can't recognize them and also to know when it is appropriate and when it is not.

Finally, you will need to fully comprehend what you are doing, because if you are tested and you falter or you choose the wrong time or place to "settle" your accounts there could be problems. Comprehension includes knowing what you are and what the United States really is.

[Santa]

Definition of 'Fiduciary'
1. A person legally appointed and authorized to hold assets in trust for another person. The fiduciary manages the assets for the benefit of the other person rather than for his or her own profit.

2. A loan made on trust rather than against some security or asset.
Investopedia Says
Investopedia explains 'Fiduciary'
1. Children or elderly people typically need a fiduciary. The person who looks after the assets on the other's behalf is expected to act in the best interests of the person whose assets they are in charge of. This is known as "fiduciary duty".

[7th trump]

sorry mate but when people are swearing at me I'm not inclined.

Good to see 7th stepping in. Wondered how long that would take.

My thoughts:
Show me the Money
The Money is the Bill
A Statement gives rise to a Bill (thats from imperial Bills of Exchange rules (commonwealths), correlation with UCC = standardised international commerce)

He who creates a controversy provides the remedy
I want the taxman to send me a Bill.
The Bill is a controversy therefore there must be a remedy for this controversy.
The remedy is to "settle" the account.

How do I get the taxman to send me a Bill?
By only paying tax once per year.
I have to structure my affairs so I only pay tax once per year.
Why? Because this gives the opportunity for the taxman to send me a Bill.
How do I achieve this?
If I am a contractor/sole trader/company director I can do this easily.
If I am a wage earner, my wages are probably suffering from tax withholding each payday, whether it's weekly or fortnight, monthly what ever.
As a wage earner I might look for an IRS form that elinimated the withholding.
I think that is a W form. A W4 or W40 or something like that.
It goes to the employer who then does not subtract the tax amount each payday.

What next?
Because I don't trust myself or anyone else about this stuff, I myself put the tax amount to the side each and every payday. Just in case and so I can be sure I'm not gonna get burned. Hedging.

Then at the appropriate time, I file my annual tax return. I do not send in "payment" with the return.
I wait for the taxman to send me........ a Bill.
It may come in the form of......... a Statement.
A Statement gives rise to a Bill.
The Money is the Bill.

Remembering that I have also stashed the equivelant FRN's away (at least for the first couple years) in case there is a hitch.

I am not advocating NOT paying Social Security or Tax. I am just suggesting there are several ways to "settle" the account. If I can settle the account with out expending FRN's then that might be a good outcome.

How do I settle the account? I convert the Bill.

Remember this, there is no money, only negotiable instruments or Notes for short. Federal Reserve Notes are negotiable instruments. They are not money. Negotiable instruments are declared legal tender. Legal tender is the approved method of settling accounting obligations. Federal Reserve Notes are not the only form of legal tender.

The skill comes in being able to recognize Legal Tender when you see it, or how to recognize something that you can convert to Legal Tender. You also need to know how to make sure that Legal Tender is recognizable by the other party. Some other parties will readily recognize them, others will not. Some you can instruct but it can take time or just not be worth it. Some you would not do because it's not appropriate. Government claims are nearly always appropriate.

The trick is to know who can and who can't recognize them and also to know when it is appropriate and when it is not.

Finally, you will need to fully comprehend what you are doing, because if you are tested and you falter or you choose the wrong time or place to "settle" your accounts there could be problems. Comprehension includes knowing what you are and what the United States really is.

Being paid in FRN's or US treasury notes, gold, silver or anything of value has nothing at all to do with what causes the federal imposition on your labor.
The imposition starts with 26usc 3121(b) "employment" (aka.....Social Security). This 3121(b) "employment" is the heart and sole of Social Security.
As a result of 3121(b) "employment" (participating in Social Security) your pay is defined as 3121(a) "wages". 3121(a) "wages" are also what the government uses to determine the amount of taxes you owe....(tax brackets)
The more 3121(a) "wages" you earn the higher tax brackets you find yourself in. 3121(a) "wages" are reported to the Social Security Administration via the form W3 transmittal.
This 3121(a) "wage" definition is also incorporated into the same definition the government uses to require deductions and withholdings on government employees since 1862. This definition is 26usc 3401(a) "wages".

And for anybody out there who doesnt beleive Social Security is the root of the IRS sending you a bill I have these two tidbits for you. (by the way, I can no longer make bold or underline specific words....anybody know how to correct this setting?)

RM 00206.065 SSN Applications for Federal Income Tax Returns (IRS Requests)
A. Introduction
IRS generally uses the SSN as the taxpayer identification number (TIN). Each taxpayer and spouse is required to enter his/her own SSN on the return. SSNs are also required for dependents being claimed on the tax returns. However, for people who are not otherwise eligible for an SSN, IRS will assign an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN).
When processing tax returns, IRS matches the name shown on the tax return with the name shown on the IRS database for that particular SSN. SSA Numident data is sent to IRS each week in the format IRS requested. This information is then used to update the IRS database. When IRS finds a return on which an SSN has been omitted or cannot be verified, they notify the taxpayer to contact SSA to determine the correct number or to obtain an SSN.



RM 00206.066 Inquiries Based on IRS Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) Backup Withholding Program
A. BACKGROUND
IRS regulations require payers of interest and dividends to provide IRS with the correct name and TIN of the payee. For individuals, the TIN is usually the SSN. IRS periodically provides payers with lists of TINs that do not match their records.
Since IRS records are created from SSA data, it may be necessary for the individual to contact SSA to correct or verify information contained on SSA records.

[7th trump]

Definition of 'Fiduciary'
1. A person legally appointed and authorized to hold assets in trust for another person. The fiduciary manages the assets for the benefit of the other person rather than for his or her own profit.

2. A loan made on trust rather than against some security or asset.
Investopedia Says
Investopedia explains 'Fiduciary'
1. Children or elderly people typically need a fiduciary. The person who looks after the assets on the other's behalf is expected to act in the best interests of the person whose assets they are in charge of. This is known as "fiduciary duty".
Dont listen to palani...he hasnt a clue.
Employees arent fiduciary anymore than the moon is made of cheese!

Says hes been researching law for 15 years now and all he knows is what he learns from other idiots like David Merrill Vanpelt who the courts have deemed incompetent.

[Glass]

Being paid in FRN's or US treasury notes, gold, silver or anything of value has nothing at all to do with what causes the federal imposition on your labor.
The imposition starts with 26usc 3121(b) "employment" (aka.....Social Security). This 3121(b) "employment" is the heart and sole of Social Security.
As a result of 3121(b) "employment" (participating in Social Security) your pay is defined as 3121(a) "wages". 3121(a) "wages" are also what the government uses to determine the amount of taxes you owe....(tax brackets)
This 3121(a) "wage" definition is also incorporated into the same definition the government uses to require deductions and withholdings on government employees since 1862. This definition is 26usc 3401(a) "wages".

I don't care about the classificiation or trigger. It is 100% irrelevant. It is what it is. I am not advocating NOT paying taxes. I am NOT advocating avoiding taxes. I AM advocating that people Settle their accounts. Why? Because it's the honourable thing to do.

I am NOT advocating one method over another but I AM Suggesting there is more than one way to skin a cat.

The government just wants to balance the books. That's all it's about. Isn't there some Gospels about Mathew or something? To do with Paying taxes to Caeser? What about Jesus facing the Pharosee's and Administrators? What does Jesus say about it. He asks about who's money it is doesn't he? Doesn't he say Render unto Caeser that which is Caesers?

What does Caeser render these days? He renders Fiat. Render unto him that which is his. It's Fiat. It's of no substance. Why pay for something of no substance with something of substance?

The objective is to balance the books. We do this by settling the accounts.

[Santa]

sorry mate but when people are swearing at me I'm not inclined.

Good to see 7th stepping in. Wondered how long that would take.

My thoughts:
Show me the Money
The Money is the Bill
A Statement gives rise to a Bill (thats from imperial Bills of Exchange rules (commonwealths), correlation with UCC = standardised international commerce)

He who creates a controversy provides the remedy
I want the taxman to send me a Bill.
The Bill is a controversy therefore there must be a remedy for this controversy.
The remedy is to "settle" the account.

How do I get the taxman to send me a Bill?
By only paying tax once per year.
I have to structure my affairs so I only pay tax once per year.
Why? Because this gives the opportunity for the taxman to send me a Bill.
How do I achieve this?
If I am a contractor/sole trader/company director I can do this easily.
If I am a wage earner, my wages are probably suffering from tax withholding each payday, whether it's weekly or fortnight, monthly what ever.
As a wage earner I might look for an IRS form that elinimated the withholding.
I think that is a W form. A W4 or W40 or something like that.
It goes to the employer who then does not subtract the tax amount each payday.

What next?
Because I don't trust myself or anyone else about this stuff, I myself put the tax amount to the side each and every payday. Just in case and so I can be sure I'm not gonna get burned. Hedging.

Then at the appropriate time, I file my annual tax return. I do not send in "payment" with the return.
I wait for the taxman to send me........ a Bill.
It may come in the form of......... a Statement.
A Statement gives rise to a Bill.
The Money is the Bill.

Remembering that I have also stashed the equivelant FRN's away (at least for the first couple years) in case there is a hitch.

I am not advocating NOT paying Social Security or Tax. I am just suggesting there are several ways to "settle" the account. If I can settle the account with out expending FRN's then that might be a good outcome.

How do I settle the account? I convert the Bill.

Remember this, there is no money, only negotiable instruments or Notes for short. Federal Reserve Notes are negotiable instruments. They are not money. Negotiable instruments are declared legal tender. Legal tender is the approved method of settling accounting obligations. Federal Reserve Notes are not the only form of legal tender.

The skill comes in being able to recognize Legal Tender when you see it, or how to recognize something that you can convert to Legal Tender. You also need to know how to make sure that Legal Tender is recognizable by the other party. Some other parties will readily recognize them, others will not. Some you can instruct but it can take time or just not be worth it. Some you would not do because it's not appropriate. Government claims are nearly always appropriate.

The trick is to know who can and who can't recognize them and also to know when it is appropriate and when it is not.

Finally, you will need to fully comprehend what you are doing, because if you are tested and you falter or you choose the wrong time or place to "settle" your accounts there could be problems. Comprehension includes knowing what you are and what the United States really is.

Seriously? It looks to me like you're just doing a jig for your employer.
You're just another employee.

[palani]

Dont listen to palani...he hasnt a clue.
Employees arent fiduciary anymore than the moon is made of cheese!

http://www.labourlawresearch.net/Portals/0/The%20Employment%20Relationship%20and%20Fiduciary% 20Obligations.pdf

Best I can do on short notice.

You owe a fiduciary duty to the state for letting them own your car. Read all about it in Hutchens v maxicenter

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=3&xmldoc=19881159541So2d618_11098.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006&SizeDisp=7

Law and equity are merged. Trusts are key to equity. Best sign "AT ARMS LENGTH" if you don't want a trust to be presumed (with YOU as the fiduciary).

[7th trump]

I don't care about the classificiation or trigger. It is 100% irrelevant. It is what it is. I am not advocating NOT paying taxes. I am NOT advocating avoiding taxes. I AM advocating that people Settle their accounts. I am NOT advocating one method over another but I AM Suggesting there is more than one way to skin a cat.

The government just wants to balance the books. That's all it's about. Isn't there some Gospels about Mathew or something?So its irrevelent to know what causes you to be imposed the income tax and the books of the government are?
Common sense tells me to understand what causes you to be taxed and learn not to do that..............but hey thats me!
And no there isnt more than one way to skin a cat.......you have to stop the reporting altogether and to stop that is to stop participating in Social Security.

Goal#1 Is learn what causes the imposition.
Goal#2 is to apply what you learned.

[Santa]

Land is not owned other than by its creator.

But in the meantime, who's sovereign?

[7th trump]

http://www.labourlawresearch.net/Portals/0/The%20Employment%20Relationship%20and%20Fiduciary% 20Obligations.pdf

Best I can do on short notice.

You owe a fiduciary duty to the state for letting them own your car. Read all about it in Hutchens v maxicenter

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=3&xmldoc=19881159541So2d618_11098.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006&SizeDisp=7

Law and equity are merged. Trusts are key to equity. Best sign "AT ARMS LENGTH" if you don't want a trust to be presumed (with YOU as the fiduciary).
NOT!.........with an execption of a few states, who have written their own tax imposition laws, most states piggyback Title 26.

[7th trump]

http://www.labourlawresearch.net/Portals/0/The%20Employment%20Relationship%20and%20Fiduciary% 20Obligations.pdf

Best I can do on short notice.

You owe a fiduciary duty to the state for letting them own your car. Read all about it in Hutchens v maxicenter

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=3&xmldoc=19881159541So2d618_11098.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006&SizeDisp=7

Law and equity are merged. Trusts are key to equity. Best sign "AT ARMS LENGTH" if you don't want a trust to be presumed (with YOU as the fiduciary).
NOT!.........with an execption of a few states, who have written their own tax imposition laws, most states piggyback Title 26 (federal).

The problem with you Palani is you'd rather beleive in a conspiracy or lie or both than do the statutory research needed to follow how reporting works.
A W3 transmittal is not a result of any fiduciary duty....the W3 is a direct result of a W4.
If you research the W4, on the bottom of the form it has two statutes that control the purpose of the W4. They are 26usc 3402(f)(2) (again its about 3121(b) "employment" (participating in Social Security) and the other is 26usc 6109.
Not one of the two controlling statutes even mention fiduciary......they all point directly at 3121(b) "employment".

[zap]

Do we have a bunch of little girls arguing over who gets the swing? you guys are supposed to be men , WTF

[Glass]

Seriously? It looks to me like you're just doing a jig for your employer.
You're just another employee.

What does a Jig mean?

[7th trump]

http://www.labourlawresearch.net/Portals/0/The%20Employment%20Relationship%20and%20Fiduciary% 20Obligations.pdf

Best I can do on short notice.

You owe a fiduciary duty to the state for letting them own your car. Read all about it in Hutchens v maxicenter

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=3&xmldoc=19881159541So2d618_11098.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006&SizeDisp=7

Law and equity are merged. Trusts are key to equity. Best sign "AT ARMS LENGTH" if you don't want a trust to be presumed (with YOU as the fiduciary).

I know where you are coming from Palani, so I'm posting this once again.

(13)the term “Federal personnel” means officers and employees of the Government of the United States, members of the uniformed services (including members of the Reserve Components), individuals entitled to receive immediate or deferred retirement benefits under any retirement program of the Government of the United States (including survivor benefits). http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/552a

Do you see who the trustee is and who the fiduciary is?
Which entity has a constitutional duty to oversee?

And what causing the "People of the United States of America" to become "federal personel"?

Do you see the "participating" factor in all this "subjects" and being made "subject"?
You, palani, focus and research the "participating" factor and a lot of your "lost in the law" goes away.

[Glass]

So its irrevelent to know what causes you to be imposed the income tax and the books of the government are?
Common sense tells me to understand what causes you to be taxed and learn not to do that..............but hey thats me!
And no there isnt more than one way to skin a cat.......you have to stop the reporting altogether and to stop that is to stop participating in Social Security.

Goal#1 Is learn what causes the imposition.
Goal#2 is to apply what you learned.

It's irrelevant when there is an obligation. Sure you are talking about not ever giving rise to an obligation. What does Jesus say you should do? He says, iif the obligation is there, settle it and he also says, if there is no need to make an obligation do not make one.

So sure, get out of Dodge and don't make an obligation but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about dealing with obligations like SS. If the obligation exists you still have to deal with it, until such time as you can make the thing that causes it to not exist.

Perhaps if taxation was not a direct imposition on the FRN's in your wallet, it might not be so important or stressful to people.

I'd like to know how to get out of receiving wages and consequently SS. Tell us how to do it. Maybe start a thread so it can stay on topic so the information is not swamped by the back and forth that happens all the time on forums. I'd appreciate the knowledge.

Caveat: I'm in Australia so while I'd like to know how we don't account our SS the same way you guys do. It's not a separate item on the tax. Still it might give some useful ideas to pursue locally.

[EE_]

Do we have a bunch of little girls arguing over who gets the swing? you guys are supposed to be men , WTF

http://static6.depositphotos.com/1000588/600/i/450/dep_6000323-Two-girls-fighting-hair-pulling.jpg

[7th trump]

It's irrelevant when there is an obligation. Sure you are talking about not ever giving rise to an obligation. What does Jesus say you should do? He says, iif the obligation is there, settle it and he also says, if there is no need to make an obligation do not make one.

So sure, get out of Dodge and don't make an obligation but we weren't talking about that. We were talking about dealing with obligations like SS. If the obligation exists you still have to deal with it, until such time as you can make the thing that causes it to not exist.

Perhaps if taxation was not a direct imposition on the FRN's in your wallet, it might not be so important or stressful to people.

I'd like to know how to get out of receiving wages and consequently SS. Tell us how to do it. Maybe start a thread so it can stay on topic so the information is not swamped by the back and forth that happens all the time on forums. I'd appreciate the knowledge.

Caveat: I'm in Australia so while I'd like to know how we don't account our SS the same way you guys do. It's not a separate item on the tax. Still it might give some useful ideas to pursue locally.
Social Security in America is not an obligation, its not compelled to participate. One doesnt have to participate if one doesnt wish to.

"Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section."




(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number—(1) Social security number. Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS–5, which may be obtained from any Social Security Administration or Internal Revenue Service office. He shall make such application far enough in advance of the first required use of such number to permit issuance of the number in time for compliance with such requirement. The form, together with any supplementary statement, shall be prepared and filed in accordance with the form, instructions, and regulations applicable thereto, and shall set forth fully and clearly the data therein called for. Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.



Paragraph (b) doesnt say anything about Social Security being compelled. All it says is a ssn is required on forms for other purposes than participating.

[Glass]

Paragraph (b) doesnt say anything about Social Security being compelled. All it says is a ssn is required on forms for other purposes than participating.

Ok so how do you differentiate that your are in or out of SS, if you have a number?

OR should the question acutally be: Does any form issued by the Government "require' you to provide the SS number?

In Australia we have a TFN, a Tax File Number. Introduced in about 2000 maybe 2004. Can't recall. It is not compulsory to have one BUT if you want a benefit you have to have one. Even if you have one, it is not compulsory to provide it when asked by anyone Govt or otherwise, BUT in some circumstances it may change the way you are treated.

You are NOT obliged to provide a TFN:


When opening a bank account, however 50% of any interest paid on deposts will be withheld for the taxman. (I use non interest bearing accounts for religious reasons.)
You do not have to provide a TFN in communications with the tax department, however identifying you as the account takes longer.
If you are a wage earner or contractor without a TFN the employer/payor is required to send 50% of the total amount to be paid to the tax man. You have to file to recover it.


The last time I opened a new bank account. When looking at the piece of paper there was a section right at the bottom which was set aside for the TFN. The layout of forms is very important under law because sometimes things that are on the piece of paper are not actually part of the form itself. Just because the paper has a form on it does not mean the whole of the piece of paper is the form. This is one of the first things lawyers are taught. How to identify what is part of the form and what is not. This applies to all commercial papers as well, including negotiable instruments.

It was clear that the TFN section did not consitute a part of the form itself.

My point is, perhaps some of these forms with a place for the SSN is not compelling the person completing it to provide the SSN. Perhaps the person completing is misinterpreting what is part of the form and what is not. Not sure, haven't seen a form with a spot for the SSN.

Consider this, what is inside the box and what is outside the box? On a form, this is important. Depending on whether the thing is inside the box or outside the box it will determine if it is part of the form or not.

It's often been said you sometimes have to think outside the box. The trick is to identify the boundaries of the box.

[palani]

It's often been said you sometimes have to think outside the box. The trick is to identify the boundaries of the box.
With social security the benefit comes when you APPLY for a benefit. Just paying money into an account is not a benefit per se. You apply for a benefit by sending an application to social security for disability or retirement income or possibly death benefits (at which point in time your estate might as well as not receive a benefit because it sure is not going to affect YOU).

If you decide to abstain from receiving benefits you lose the card. When anyone asks you don't have a social security number and never have. This is true because it is not your account and not your number. Any forms requiring a ssn may be completed using 000-00-0000 per the instructions.

Here is how you tell if you own something: you can destroy it. You can't destroy the social security account because it belongs to someone else. Any communications you are likely to receive by mail is going to be addressed to the ALL CAPS fiction. Don't be curious enough to open someone elses mail. Ship it on back. Unless you WANT to be wrapped up in benefits.

[Glass]

Here is how you tell if you own something: you can destroy it. You can't destroy the social security account because it belongs to someone else. Any communications you are likely to receive by mail is going to be addressed to the ALL CAPS fiction. Don't be curious enough to open someone elses mail. Ship it on back. Unless you WANT to be wrapped up in benefits.

This is what I do with some of the benefits. Send it back unopened. The ones that would not result in a future court related event such as might arise from taxation related material.

[Barbaro]

I got my first full paycheck for the year and now I make 1200.00 less a year because of a ponzi scheme called social security. I know what your going to say- it isn't a new increase it's just that it had been reduced from 6 to 4 per cent the last few years to help stimulate the economy. I got something they can stimulate! Ugh...

I would like to opt out of the bullshit because I was born in 64 and that's the last year for the so called baby-boomers and there isn't gonna be shit left. 30+ years of paying into the scheme and it's all upside down. Don't even want to mention the inflation rate that takes in my estimation 10 per cent already. Anyone else feel like they are getting stuck for the tab of the drunk at the other end of the bar?
Rant Over-temporarily. My wife was tired of hearing me bitch about it. FuuuuuuK me

I too, have reservations about being forced by law to pay into SS.

I was born in 1970.

I don't have confidence.

(I'm overseas now so I don't pay but when I will return I will have to of course.)

I wish there was a way to earn income in cash only transactions on the side or a significant portion of income. Oh, there are ways, but I don't have the skill sets and such.

[palani]

The ones that would not result in a future court related event such as might arise from taxation related material.

I don't discriminate. If the address on the envelope is not the exact address I recorded at the courthouse back she goes.

The funny thing is none of these administrative agencies dare to send a letter to a non-zip coded address. Their jurisdiction extends only to federal zones and if you aren't in one your situation changes significantly.

[Glass]

Palani,

Wondering if you have any thoughts on the placement of an endorsement on an instrument. The instrument would be a Statement/Bill of Exchange. Have you heard of anything about endorsing to the left or the right of the instrument?

The CiC guys state the position determines status, creditor or debtor status. Have you heard of this and do you think its correct?

[chad]

somebody should make a thread discussing all of the following in one place:

1) social security and how you can get out of it and never have to pay
2) how you can get an allodial title and never pay
3) how you can write stuff on your checks and other forms and never pay any taxes
4) yellow fringe on the flag in court room makes anything that happens bounce off you because you are rubber and they are super glue

it would be the ultimate flypaper thread and keep all of the retard discussion in one place.

[palani]

Palani,

Wondering if you have any thoughts on the placement of an endorsement on an instrument. The instrument would be a Statement/Bill of Exchange. Have you heard of anything about endorsing to the left or the right of the instrument? I believe they say the right position is reserved for the creditor and the left to the debtor. Also they say they have seen judges sign in the middle.


The CiC guys state the position determines status, creditor or debtor status. Have you heard of this and do you think its correct?
You couldn't prove it by me. But the last 'love' letter I sent the treasurer of the county I placed a $1 Fox stamp squarely in the middle at the bottom.

[Ponce]

I can't complain.....with my style of living I only use 45% of my SS and the rest is to play with or inflation...I have adjusted my life not to what I want, but to what I need. At 72 years of age I still have another 50 years of good life.

By the way, I did lie......I want and 18 years little blond with blue eyes who is crazy about me...LOLLLLLLLL

V

[palani]

Lots of info here ... http://www.wizworld.com/taxes/

"People who complain about taxes can be divided into two classes: men and women."

"A fool and your money are soon partying."

[Libertytree]

Lots of info here ... http://www.wizworld.com/taxes/

"People who complain about taxes can be divided into two classes: men and women."

"A fool and your money are soon partying."

You gotta be pulling our leg or some type of bullshit...right?

That wizwurld site is a friggin joke. Besides, the forms on that page are only forms that compare for inflation/monetary adjustments. 3¢ on the dollar approx, we all know that I think.

[palani]

You gotta be pulling our leg or some type of bullshit...right?

That wizwurld site is a friggin joke. Besides, the forms on that page are only forms that compare for inflation/monetary adjustments. 3¢ on the dollar approx, we all know that I think.

Don't like it? Then don't read it.

[Libertytree]

Don't like it? Then don't read it.

Oh, I read it. I tried to glean that elusive sliver of wisdom that seems to hide, somewhere, but you find plentiful. BTW....I had to read it to find out if I liked or NOT.

[palani]

Oh, I read it. I tried to glean that elusive sliver of wisdom that seems to hide, somewhere, but you find plentiful. BTW....I had to read it to find out if I liked or NOT.

Obsessive compulsive? Try to get over it if you can.

[Libertytree]

Obsessive compulsive? Try to get over it if you can.

Maybe, I don't think so but I will read your post 20 times in a row just to make sure there really is nothing there, it hasn't ever worked before but I'll check again. I wouldn't try and get over it, I have some pretty good fun, except for not being you.

[palani]

I have some pretty good fun, except for not being you.

I have no problem with you not being me.

[Libertytree]

I have no problem with you not being me.

At least we seem to have reached common ground but please don't confuse it with common law or Blacks law etc.. at least if you can't explain it in plain English. Thanks.

[palani]

at least if you can't explain it in plain English. Thanks.

I am not licensed to explain law therefore I do not engage in this activity.

[Libertytree]

I am not licensed to explain law therefore I do not engage in this activity.

Then why do you try to in your vaguely veiled posts? Speak up or acquiesce.

[palani]

Then why do you try to in your vaguely veiled posts? Speak up or acquiesce.

Entertainment and education?

[Glass]

I wanted to do a test run on doing an acceptance with a couple of people acting as observers through the process. This is the Net so it's pretty difficult to verify things so I came up with a cunning plan. I have invited/asked 3 members of this forum to be these observers and I am now waiting to hear back from them.

I thought I'd outline what I would like to do.

I propose that I will make a copy of an insturment that I send in to a Govt Department. I am going to heavily redact it to protect my identity, but hopefully there will be enough there to ensure everyone feels the instrument is a legit Govt document. I will then send a scan of this or make it available for download for the 3 observers.

Then as things progress I will do the same for any further correspondence, good or bad. I am hoping that the observers can confirm the dates are in sequence and hopefully that the amounts of dollars are the same. This should enable the observers to have a resonable degree of certainty the documents are related and part of the same process.

It's not an ideal method but as I said, it's hard to verify things like this to other people on the net.

So the instrument is on it's way. I've been heavily redacting, so heavily that my desk is covered in permanent marker marks..... I'll probably start a thread in the members area once I hear back from the members I contact. We can use that for monitoring the progress. I expect this to take about 6 weeks. Lets see how it turns out.

[Rubberchicken]

Keep us posted and feel free to use this thread as your own.

[Glass]

ok after much messing about on my part, trying to share password protected zip files, I think the 3 people who graciously agreed to monitor the progress have access to the document I sent to get the ball rolling. Thank you to those 3 for agreeing to help.

What was this about?
I got a Statement from the taxman
It is for several 10's of thousands

What did I do?
I accepted it, in a similar fashion to the Accepted for Value or Sovereign Freemen movements are promoting.

How did I accept it?
The document consisted of 2 parts. It had a statement section which was the top 3/4 or 4/5ths of the document. That portion contained a list of transactions for the last month or so, the dollar total plus address information. The other portion was the Payment slip/coupon/voucher or Remittance Slip

I turned the document 90 degrees clockwise so that it is in landscape. I wroted "ACCEPTED" on the (what became the top) top edge of the payment slip and signed directly underneath. then I turned the document back. The word Accepted is now vertical on the left edge of the payment slip.

I then wrote the word PAY where you would normally see it appear on a Check. On a Check it would be just before where you would write out the amount in words. Writing out the amout in words is optional on this kind of document. I simply wrote PAY where the word amount would be written out.

I then wrote in the amount in numbers in the box provided. This number must equal the amount of the statement. It must not be under or over. That is important.

I left the statement portion of this bill attached and I did not touch it at all. No writing above the "detach here" perforated/dotted line.

Final thing I did was make a bunch of copies, I took 4.

I sent it in using Registered mail. This will give me a delivery receipt. I sent it on Tuesday 4th Feb. I should see a delivery receipt today or tomorrow.

I actually sent this att Deputy Comissioner. This may be an unsuitable address. No doubt he will tell me, like he has in the past.

I think the document needs explaining some more, because I don't think it is what most people comprehend it to be, even in the A4V crowd. I'll do some 'splaining next post. It will be later today.

Thanks again to the people who agreed to help watch the process. Much appreciated.

[Glass]

The document I sent is apparently a negotiable instrument. In commonwealth countries there is usually an Legislation to deal with Bills of Exchange (BoE's) . The UCC basically codifies Bills of Exchange, although it doesn't call them that. It calls them negotiable instruments.

The basics of these are:

A Bill is a presentment in the form of a Demand for payment.
It may come in the form of a Statement.
This is what I received
A presentment can be many things, but mostly they are to do with contracts. In legal cases that would be mostly civil documents for contracts however criminal case documents can be presentments as well because all crimes are commercial both in the US and in commonwealth countries.
When a Bill is presented, it can be accepted or protested. It can be accepted by implication or by explicit action
Most people accept a Bill by implication. They do nothing. After 72 hours (of doing nothing) any Bill is deemed accepted if it is not protested.
What I did is technically an Explicit Acceptance of the Statement.
I endorsed the Statement.
This endorsement changed the Statement into a Bill of Exchange
Under the BoE Act a statement gives rise to a Bill. A BoE may come from a statement if endorsed correctly.
If I were a storeman and a delivery came in and the paperwork included a shipping manifest (bill of ladling) I would check the items off and sign an acceptence of delivery.
Bills don't generally get signed with an Acceptance, we generally just pay the amount unless we disagree with the amount and we protest it.


According to A4V people, I created a negotiable instrument. This is what they are called under the UCC.

Because currency is not money but is used as if it were money, it must have some special features. What exactly are they? It's clear from various laws on money and legal tender, laws governing the Federal Reserve and how commerce works, that currency is infact negotiable instruments. Even in it's form, it can be compared to an offical description of negotiable instruments and can be found to match those descriptions.

We all agree no gold or silver backs the currency, so something must back it. I think you will find your currency has at least 1 signature on it. Usually there are two. One will be the Secretary of the Treasury.

The USD is a very widely used and widely accepted negotiable instrument. Legal tender is the same in every country BUT just because you don't see any other forms of negotiable instrument doesn't mean they don't exist or that any body other than a select few can use them.

Thats the philosphy as I see it ATM which we are testing.

[Glass]

What happens to the Bill of Exchange (BoE) ?

Once a Statement is endorsed, it becomes a Bill of Exchange.
Once signed it is returned to the party that created it.
That party becomes the Holder in Due Course.

Now we get to the test.

As a holder in due course, that party has a couple of options.
They may continue holding the document until maturity
They may choose to asign an interest in the BoE. This means they may sell part or all of the note for some amount on the face of it.

So they may give/sell/trade the note to someone else in exchange for some consideration. The consideration migth be the amount of the Bill or some portion there of paid right now. The other party becomes the new holder of the note.

The 1st holder could use the note to set off an obligation they have with another party (2nd holder). 1st party owes 2nd party $20K. Here is a BoE for $22K as Set Off for your claim of $20K against me.

The holder in due course could obviously keep the note and present it to the original party on Maturity (of the note) for payment.

Somethings that might be discovered in this process because I don't know the answers:
When is Maturity determined on a BoE? If you write up a promissory note (IOU), you would generally have a date on there by which it had to be paid. The BoE doesn't have a maturity date BUT it does have a Due Date. What decides the Maturity Date?

It could be the date, any date in the future on which it is presented "On Demand" for payment.

It might not ever come back for presentment. If the BoE gets sold onto the bond market as part of a package or on it's own, who collects? Does anyone front up and demand payment? When? In 40 years?

Does it get sold as part of a package which is then serviced by the one who sold it? Just like a bank sells mortgages and gets paid on the value of the promissory notes, they then should be collecting the "Repayments" and passing that on to the note holders.

Does the Govt department sell the note and then just service the payments from consolidated revenue - the main tax pool account? Then the costs would not be apportioned to the endorser of the BoE. The endorser would contribute to consolidated revenue via income tax etc and that would be used generally to service debt costs such as for the BoE.

Maybe it just comes back with a Sod Off note from Uncle Sam or whom ever.

Maybe what I did is handled just as an informational which indicates the bill is accepted BUT payment was not attached and at some point in the future when an accounting review is done, someone comes along and says, hey we didn't receive your payment and you said you sent it because you sent us this thing back with your sign on it. What up?

[Glass]

This is an interesting read. Only a short way into it at the moment.

History of Bills of Exchange (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=vI8DAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=history+of+bills+of+exchange&source=bl&ots=p0npB4gPQ3&sig=p_-rpfCIWdsCrgWZ-8S4tdIQlrI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=65QPUarQCseXiAf5jIGoDg&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=history%20of%20bills%20of%20exchange&f=false)

The intro is interesting historical information. Maybe first 5 or so pages.

Page 9 and 10 are interesting.

It seems that BoE's have a statutory limitation of about 6 years. They must be presented within that time. I say about, because this is old text and I know statutory limitations can vary for different things. In Australia it's 7 years on keeping financial records, however this is now 5 years, however some other things are still 7. And then there are yet more things were the limit is 2 years. Such as for reporting a crime, after become aware of it.

So the potential is that the BoE comes back sometime in 6 or 7 years after creation. I wonder how long the Creditors in Commerce guys have been going for and if any instruments have come back.

[palani]

So the potential is that the BoE comes back sometime in 6 or 7 years after creation. I wonder how long the Creditors in Commerce guys have been going for and if any instruments have come back.

They direct payment to be made at Treasury so expect their instructions to be followed and really don't expect to see anything come back. That is, if I understand their method.

[Glass]

I received the confirmation of delivery by post yesterday. This constitutes the signed registered mail delivery receipt. I have uploaded scans of trhe front and back because this confirms when it was sent and when it was delivered.

I think this might also be the first "test" of the members who are following this along as observers of the correspondence. Hopefully they will observe an insteresting anomaly. I think I need to find the receipt I was given when I posted this item.

[Glass]

had a bit of a "scare" yesterday. got home to find a notice to collect a parcel. ID required. As the only mail I get is bad news mail to my home address, this did not bode well. The notice did have a sticker indicating that the parcel was international parcel as well as ID required. Responses from the tax office to me would not be international, however, in the past I have received a similar notice with such a sticker and when asked was told that they use what ever sticker they have that comes to hand. The point being that it says bring ID. That's the important part say the post office. Next issue is the collection location is a subtantial distance further than the 3 post offices that are all within 2 Kms of my residence. 1 of which, the furtherest one is the usual location for collection. This collection location was about 8kms away.

The post office was unable to produce a parcel. After several hours they called to say the parcel was for another address. This also happens frequently. I get mail for other people fairly regularly. Whew!

[madfranks]

Good luck, Glass.

[Glass]

So there has been no communication as yet. It has been 2 weeks since the Accepted document was collected by the Tax Office.

A fairly important tipbit of information was shared with me today. The person I have been working with on this has told me that the amounts they had credited to their account were for less than the amount of the accepted document. This would have been very useful information to have known at the begining. Previous we had discussed the amount they had received and I was advised it was face value.

This new (old) information categorically confirms that these documents are being dealt with as a debt instrument and are being sold at a discount to another party. Who that party is remains a mystery. Are they being sold to a debt collector? Via the Treasury bond window or some other treasury mechanism? Given my reading of the BoE Act (Bills of Exchange Act) and other historical texts relating to these, they have a statutory life of between 6 and 7 years. Possibly as short as 5.

I would expect that this document must be presented for settlement in full within that time frame. Alternatively the Tax Office may in fact become the debt service manager and levy an annual amount to cover the financing costs.

Alternatively the document never comes back as is the claims of the acting in Commerce guys. An alternative outcome to that could be that all claims arising from it are simply satisfied by the public purse from consolidated revenue, which is the bankrupcty management account for Australia.

My expectation, without actual concrete facts as to who holds the note, is that it will come back at any time in the next 6 - 7 years. I also expect it will be at interest at a level of about 14% PA. I would suggest this is not a favourable interest rate in the current climate. Still I guess, having the option of being able to defer is sometimes preferable to not having the option at all.

I was going to send another one to a different party (Treasury) and see how it got dealt with. To see if there is another method, i.e. some kind of trust fund so often spoken of but ne'er seen. This would ideally be a better option.

So the question I now have is, what do the CiC guys do when a note comes back. Have they been in operation long enough for a note to mature or not I wonder? The adage is, that because there is no money and only notes, any future demand for payment can be settled in the same manner, however, I am pretty confident a promissory note cannot be used to settle a promissory note.

[palani]

Novation ... a transaction whereby a debtor is discharged from liability to his original creditor by contracting a new obligation in favor of a new creditor by order of the original creditor.

For this to work the issuer of the bill of exchange must be viewed as the 'original' creditor rather than a mere debtor.

[Glass]

Just to clarify my comments about the value of these notes. I made those comments in error. I have been told that the person has only just been able to get a transcript of their account and determined that the amounts were different. So they did not have that information earlier as I claimed they did. I'm fairly sure that the amounts were confirmed to me but this is now up for debate.

[Glass]

Rabbit holes. They can be deep and twisty. Been looking into these NZ guys. Seems like Canada and NZ have easier to find stuff than Australia does.

It turns out that NZ is actually part of New South Wales. I had heard this before and someone told me the Australian Constitution stated such. Seems as this is actually true. New Zealand is a part of the Country of New South Wales. Yes NSW was/is a country in it's own right.

This web site has some very interesting stuff on Estates and Ceste Qui trusts. A Ceste Qui trust is a trust that is set up for a missing person or an idiot, lunatic or a child. The obligation of the trusts management lies with the Govenor of the colony.

Part 1 (http://www.relatingtolife.com/index.php?page=223&name=Colonisation and Redemption Pt 1)
Part 2 (http://www.relatingtolife.com/index.php?page=223&name=Colonisation and Redemption Pt 2)
Part 3 (http://www.relatingtolife.com/index.php?page=225&name=Colonisation%20and%20Redemption%20Pt%203)

For anyone who is interested please read these 3 pages, being sure to read through to page 3 and all the way down to Item 12. This is the gold at the end of the rainbow. Why?

A Kiwi guy called Bill Turner (mentioned him before) said in one of his videos that he had heard a tale of a Canadian guy who sent a Notice and an endorsed birth certificate to the Attorney General of his State/Province. This notice informed the AG who the man was. It also included the VIN number for a brand new vehicle in a car yard. The notice included a request to send funds to the car dealer for the vehicle and to send the title to the vehicle to the man.

The man received the Title and went to pick up the car. A misunderstanding occured, police were called. The dealer checked records and confirmed being paid some 2 weeks earlier by the Govt for that VIN. Police said take the car. Man said what about licence plates. Police said you hold the title certificate, no plates or registration required. Have a nice day.

Now this is a 3rd hand internet story so it's got a Glass credibility factor rating of Zero, zilch. nada, zip.

Why the hell the Attorney General I've been asking. Apart from the obvious question, is it true? The AG deals only in law matters. If this were to work I was thinking the Secretary of the Treasury would be the guy to send it to.

It seems that based on the Ceste Qui trust rules, the AG is the trusteee. From the above pages, on page 3 there is this explanation for Point 12.


12. Upon the application by petition to the Supreme Court or any judge thereof of an person making claim to the trust hereditaments estate or property or any part thereof or the rents interest and proceeds thereof or to the securities whereon any such rents interest or proceeds shall be invested or any part thereof or to any estate or interest therein the Supreme Court or such judge may in a summary way make such order for the vesting of the said hereditaments or for the distribution of the trust funds or for the investment thereof or payment of the interest and proceeds thereof or any part thereof or any such other order relating thereto or the rights or interests of the several parties thereto or therein as the Supreme Court or such judge thereof shall seem fit.

There are also a lot of rules there on what a Trustee can and cannot do. They can pay themselves upto 5% of the value of your trust PA plus any incidentals.

If anyone has any questions go for it.

We are trying to contact the AG and see if we can get a mortgage paid down fromt he trust. Should be interesting.

No more news on the acceptance process as yet.

[Glass]

Well nothing much has happened in the past week. I did not get a reminder for the account that I sent in as accepted. I feel like I would normally get a reminder for both accounts at least once per month.

I did get a statement for the second account on Friday last. This account has been a mess and I have been labouring under the impression that there was an error on the account. I've recently been told that there is no error and the totals are correct. Problem. Anyway subject to what happens on the other accepted account I'll take my next action on this one.

I'm expecting as much as maybe 20% shortfall on the accepted account so they should send another statement after processing the acceptance. We will wait and see I guess.

[Glass]

ok so I recieved a statement for the account that I did the original A4V on. This statement arrived to me on the 17th. It was issued on the 1st and received by agent on the 6th. So the usual ~2 weeks to forward on.

This is the first statement that has been received since sending the A4V. I've had no correspondence on this account in that time.

I've sent copies to the 3 forum members who were in on the original A4V. The document is a basic statement. It shows some funds from late 2012 that have since been found. It shows no other external payments. So the current total claimed is lower than the original. It was $22K. Now it is $16K. That change is due to the found funds.

It does show several interest charges as a debit for each month since I sent the A4V. It also shows a credit of the same amount for each month. So basically in the several months since sending the A4V the account has not increased but has basicaly stayed the same at their end.

I do not know what this means, if anything. The statement now shows all amounts as overdue where as the previous account showed a split of due and not yet due. So it just looks like a new statement demanding payment, however it could be argued that the account is on hold, because all interest charges are being credited each month. Question is, is the account on hold and if so why? Hopefully awaiting settlement.

Still being told by others that it works when they do this and that after multiple months there has been no reversing of their transactions and no further demands. In fact one received a followup letter to make sure they had received funds from their A4V and that they had deposited it correctly (into retirement plan). This process does appear to be taking double the time of other people. Not sure how much longer it is safe to hang on. I'm still paying future "obligations" in the traditional way.

[Jewboo]

I got my first full paycheck for the year and now I make 1200.00 less a year because of a ponzi scheme called social security...Anyone else feel like they are getting stuck for the tab of the drunk at the other end of the bar?



https://lh3.ggpht.com/_MXqaOBqyMb8/S9zgJby3aDI/AAAAAAAAApk/xqFwtJqNrCw/s1600/Grandma+and+Grandpa+with+girls.jpg

Ok. Let's just end Social Security today. Your parents can move in with you.

Problem solved.

http://www.americananglersfishing.com/Smileys/default/shrug.gif

[Rubberchicken]

My generation needs to learn about sacrifice so yours doesn't have to. Got it.

[Shami-Amourae]

Ok. Let's just end Social Security today. Your parents can move in with you.

Problem solved.

http://www.americananglersfishing.com/Smileys/default/shrug.gif

I was just hoping they'd legalize euthanasia, then get rid of Social Security.

[palani]

I was just hoping they'd legalize euthanasia, then get rid of Social Security.

Social security actually is a form of euthanasia.

[Rubberchicken]

Social security actually is a form of euthanasia.

If true, I will double my contribution to Book's account.

[horseshoe3]

Ok. Let's just end Social Security today. Your parents can move in with you.

Problem solved.

http://www.americananglersfishing.com/Smileys/default/shrug.gif

In a strong society with strong families, this is what would happen. It's not natural to stuff old people in a prison to die.

[Horn]

My generation needs to learn about sacrifice so yours doesn't have to. Got it.

If you have parents, if not you might be able to accept Jewboo in as some furniture endpiece, or book holder.

[Ponce]

SS is one way for the kids to pay back their parents for all that the parents did for the kids.....but of course I never had any kids......SS is my only income and to tell you the truth......is more than what I need........the secret of this is, no debts.

V

[Dogman]

SS is one way for the kids to pay back their parents for all that the parents did for the kids.....but of course I never had any kids......SS is my only income and to tell you the truth......is more than what I need........the secret of this is, no debts.

VYep!

[Horn]

SS is one way for the kids to pay back their parents for all that the parents did for the kids.....but of course I never had any kids......SS is my only income and to tell you the truth......is more than what I need........the secret of this is, no debts.

V

You forgot to include the worst scourge of mankind.

[Bigjon]

Social Security in America is not an obligation, its not compelled to participate. One doesnt have to participate if one doesnt wish to.

"Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section."




(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number—(1) Social security number. Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS–5, which may be obtained from any Social Security Administration or Internal Revenue Service office. He shall make such application far enough in advance of the first required use of such number to permit issuance of the number in time for compliance with such requirement. The form, together with any supplementary statement, shall be prepared and filed in accordance with the form, instructions, and regulations applicable thereto, and shall set forth fully and clearly the data therein called for. Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.



Paragraph (b) doesnt say anything about Social Security being compelled. All it says is a ssn is required on forms for other purposes than participating.

This is true, But a very big BUT the assholes who sold the system made it impossible to be outside of the system.

I was forced by my employer, who offered me a job (1963) on the condition that I get a social security number. It was simple no SS number, no job.

[7th trump]

This is true, But a very big BUT the assholes who sold the system made it impossible to be outside of the system.

I was forced by my employer, who offered me a job (1963) on the condition that I get a social security number. It was simple no SS number, no job.

You could bring lawsuit for violation of 42usc 1983.


Section 1983: Civil action for deprivation of rights

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance,
regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the
District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any
citizen of the United States or other person within the
jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges,
or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable
to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other
proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought
against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such
officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted
unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was
unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress
applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be
considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

By doing so the employer, though beleiving that all income is reportable income ((3121)(a) "wages"), is not allowing you access to the full protections of the Bill of Rights.
Read up what a US citizen really has for the "Bill of Rights" vs. The People.....www.1215.org
Nobody can force any voluntary law that taxes your earnings.......and by the ignorance of the employer of Social Security thats just what they did to you.

Heres what I used on one particular employer who tried to tell me I had to file a W4 because its the law when there is no law mandating participation of Social Security:
Regulation 301.6109-(1)(d)


(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number—(1) Social security number. Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS–5, which may be obtained from any Social Security Administration or Internal Revenue Service office. He shall make such application far enough in advance of the first required use of such number to permit issuance of the number in time for compliance with such requirement. The form, together with any supplementary statement, shall be prepared and filed in accordance with the form, instructions, and regulations applicable thereto, and shall set forth fully and clearly the data therein called for. Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.
This is an "administrative" regulation meaning it rules on how the ssn is to be used. And trust me they used it against you.
Section (b) relates to other uses of the ssn not relating to participating in social security.

And heres the kicker about obamacare......obamacare is just an extension of social security.
If employers only knew that their employees dont have to participate then all the mandatory requirements of social security and obamacare is useless.......look at all the money every employer and employees could keep in their pockets.
The government would be quick about stopping all wars as Congress couldnt fund any of them. The US government would practically shrink in a matter of 1 fiscal quarter when quarterly payments from the employers ceased.

[palani]

You could bring lawsuit for violation of 42usc 1983.

Do you have one of these suits pending in federal court?

[Horn]

Oh no a back to back 7thTrump & palani postings, speaking of scourges to mankind...

[Ponce]

Hey Horn? keep it up, preety soon you will even with me with your numbers of postings.......I'd better sleep less and post more, can't let a green horn get ahead of the one and only :)

V

[7th trump]

Do you have one of these suits pending in federal court?

Nope........didnt go that far. Correspondence with employer showing why and how I could sue was all it took. And the employer was more than happy not to have to pay the 11% (his half of social security...26usc 3111) of my total earnings. He kept roughly 5,500.00 a year in his pocket because I wished not to participate in social security.........5,500.00 per employee if they wanted to stop participation.

The best kept secret about 1040 "employment" taxes is understanding that Social Security is the start of all of it.

[7th trump]

Oh no a back to back 7thTrump & palani postings, speaking of scourges to mankind...

Geee golly gosh Horn.......stop the drama mongering!

I dont dislike palani.....just what he talks about at times. We might scream and hollar at each other, but I'd still buy him a beer or two.

[Bigjon]

You could bring lawsuit for violation of 42usc 1983.



By doing so the employer, though beleiving that all income is reportable income ((3121)(a) "wages"), is not allowing you access to the full protections of the Bill of Rights.
Read up what a US citizen really has for the "Bill of Rights" vs. The People.....www.1215.org (http://www.1215.org)
Nobody can force any voluntary law that taxes your earnings.......and by the ignorance of the employer of Social Security thats just what they did to you.

Heres what I used on one particular employer who tried to tell me I had to file a W4 because its the law when there is no law mandating participation of Social Security:
Regulation 301.6109-(1)(d)


This is an "administrative" regulation meaning it rules on how the ssn is to be used. And trust me they used it against you.
Section (b) relates to other uses of the ssn not relating to participating in social security.

And heres the kicker about obamacare......obamacare is just an extension of social security.
If employers only knew that their employees dont have to participate then all the mandatory requirements of social security and obamacare is useless.......look at all the money every employer and employees could keep in their pockets.
The government would be quick about stopping all wars as Congress couldnt fund any of them. The US government would practically shrink in a matter of 1 fiscal quarter when quarterly payments from the employers ceased.

The Jews got rid of that company, it no longer exists. Remington Rand Univac, is gone kaput. Last days were under the command of Michael Blumenthal, Jimmie Carter's former Secretary of the Treasury. He took our stock from 86 frn's a share down to 1.16 by closing our semiconductor manufacturing facility, a state of the art building that cost 75 million to build. Super air handlers to filter the air and columns down to the bedrock with kevlar pillows shock mounting the building to isolate it from vibration caused by traffic.
He said Minnesota is no place to be building chips and moved the operation to an office building in southern California. No air handlers, no shock mounting... surprise, surprise they could not build one chip there.

This was as deliberate a way to destroy the company as they could come up with and I'm sure the Jews had their puts in place to profit from the demise of the company.

[Jewboo]

My generation needs to learn about sacrifice so yours doesn't have to. Got it.



https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/23/1300900274940/Retired-couple-Tony-and-B-007.jpg

Tell your parents to start paying your Social Security payroll withholding from their Social Security benefit checks.

Why blame me or some vague impersonal entire "generation" for the Rubberchicken family's money redistribution problems?

Problem solved.

http://www.americananglersfishing.com/Smileys/default/shrug.gif

[sirgonzo420]

https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/23/1300900274940/Retired-couple-Tony-and-B-007.jpg

Tell your parents to start paying your Social Security payroll withholding from their Social Security benefit checks.

Why blame me or some vague impersonal entire "generation" for the Rubberchicken family's money redistribution problems?

Problem solved.

http://www.americananglersfishing.com/Smileys/default/shrug.gif

Yeah, ponzi schemes are best for those who get in early, not so much for latecomers.

[Horn]

Hey Horn? keep it up, preety soon you will even with me with your numbers of postings.......I'd better sleep less and post more, can't let a green horn get ahead of the one and only :)

V

Boomers stole all the wealth, so I'm in early retirement sitting around posting up to you.