Seeking savvy business advice.

[Libertytree]

I have an idea, no, more like a mini grand plan, for an existing business that I have some knowledge of and passion for. I know for a fact that they are in expansion mode and might be very interested in my train of thought and business plan. I have the contact info and have researched the man as well as having a limited email contact already, though he doesn't know me from Adam.

Here's the question...how do I keep from getting screwed if I give them my idea and he/they say FU?

[General of Darkness]

Perhaps you work with people you trust first.

[Libertytree]

Perhaps you work with people you trust first.

Damnit General, I asked a perfectly honest question and you give me a confucious answer?

[MNeagle]

Non Disclosure Agreement (https://ixquick.com/do/search)

[General of Darkness]

Damnit General, I asked a perfectly honest question and you give me a confucious answer?

LT I was trying to hint at the fact that there some really smart and well to do people here that might be interested in investing, and at least you know them.

[Ponce]

Give them the general idea but not the complete plan......I already have two proven ones that would give me money for ever (the same way that the Zionist uses the "holocaust" as a ATM machine) but I don't want to get head to head with the government because I would loose.

V

[General of Darkness]

Non Disclosure Agreement (https://ixquick.com/do/search)

That right there is excellent advice.

[Libertytree]

That right there is excellent advice.

I agree, very good advice. That's the reason I thanked MN.

I asked the question here because I know there's some very smart people here but not in the aspect of recruiting investors, just advice.

I, like Ponce, am an inventor and if I thought I could get the funding for my best invention here I might have already tried it but thats not my way and it'll probably die with me.

[BabushkaLady]

LT, it depends on what you'd like to get out of it; a job? consulting fees? a piece of the action? pride in knowing it's your idea? What you're looking for should dictate how you present it--as in marketing the idea.

Do your homework as to who else would benefit from the information. Don't be in a hurry.

[Libertytree]

LT, it depends on what you'd like to get out of it; a job? consulting fees? a piece of the action? pride in knowing it's your idea? What you're looking for should dictate how you present it--as in marketing the idea.

Do your homework as to who else would benefit from the information. Don't be in a hurry.

What do yaw'll think would be the best approach?

[EE_]

This is article.I saw in different webside;

I would like to share how you can protect your idea to the best of your abilities without much money. In America the patent office works with something called the first to invent law. This means if you can prove that to the best of your knowledge you were the true original inventor within a certain time frame you will have a much better chance if someone tried to steal your idea. The way to prove you are the first to invent is make a paper trail. You can go to any notary and for around twenty dollars have all your sketches and notes notorized. Be sure to number all your pages and make an outline of the contents of the documents on a coverpage. Have all these notorized then make copies and mail the copies to the U.S.P.T.O. with the title disclosure documentation. This is a free alternative to other methods of protection. The disclosure document program can be looked up on the U.S.P.T.O. web site. They will hold these documents for you for two years then they will destroy them. Also having everyone you talk to no matter what sign a non disclosure agreement you can research how to make a non disclosure document on google they can be very straight forward and simple. Make a paper trail log everyone and everything. Also if you go to the city and pay around twnty dollars for a D.B.A. and tax id number so you will be a company listed as a research and development firm helping prove your legitimacy should the need to arrive over any patent infringement knowledge is power share it!!! All My inventions fall under these protections and a few fall under patent pending status do not be scared to make that clear!!

http://chaordix-ing-dorm-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/...

http://www.edisonnation.com/forums/patents/topics/protect-your-idea-for-free-true-or-false

[BabushkaLady]

What do yaw'll think would be the best approach?

1) Research everything about the guy and his business
2) Get your plan ready to present, highlight his benefits and rewards
3) Call him to pre-float why you'd like to meet with him
4) Meet with him and present your plan; also stating what you'd like out of it

It goes one of three ways.
1) He's an arrogant bastard and will steal your idea
2) He's impressed with you and your presentation and wants to proceed
3) He tells you he'll get back with you and doesn't

So that's why you need to know his competitors and who else might be interested ahead of time. Actually run some serious numbers to float this out as your own profitable business--worst case; you find investors and start small.

[Libertytree]

This is a very specific idea to a very specific target. I do suppose I could hold taking it to a competitor as leverage though, at least to get a NDA signed.

It's so simple and plays to be what their corporate goal is, only they make more $ for less money and hassle.

[BabushkaLady]

This is a very specific idea to a very specific target. I do suppose I could hold taking it to a competitor as leverage though, at least to get a NDA signed.

It's so simple and plays to be what their corporate goal is, only they make more $ for less money and hassle.

So is it a product, streamlined operation or technological idea you have?

Why hasn't someone already implemented it?

. . . Just trying to get a better picture.

[vacuum]

I'm not sure if an NDA would do much for you, it's just an agreement that they won't tell any third party about your idea. However, you are worried about them and not a third party. Also, notarizing a letter or mailing one to yourself doesn't seem that useful....it will show the idea is yours, but it doesn't necessarily mean you have exclusive rights or a patent on it. Patents are only applicable to inventions.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but if you could buy a stake in the company then freely give them the idea, any growth in the company over time would cause your stake in the company to increase in value. It will also show a lot of good faith.

I doubt he will want to pay cash up front for an idea that may or may not work. And after the idea is implemented, it will be difficult to know what it was really worth so it will be a subjective debate and also trying to predict the future, and all of this at some undetermined time after he has already started using the idea.

Since buying a stake in the company is probably not realistic, I'd make the following proposal:
1) Determine what revenue/market share you believe your idea is worth.
2) Come up with a precise metric by which you can exactly measure the additional profits/revenue that your idea generates, which you both agree on. This is very important.
3) Come up with an agreement that they will pay you x% of this additional profit/revenue if they decide to implement your idea over a desired period of time, such as 2 years.
4) Perhaps add in that if they implement your idea but there is a disagreement, you will see an arbitrator or something like that. Or maybe you would want to go to court, I'm not sure. But some kind of resolution method might be valuable.

[Libertytree]

So is it a product, streamlined operation or technological idea you have?

Why hasn't someone already implemented it?

. . . Just trying to get a better picture.

It's a restaurant idea for an existing franchise that wants to expand. It's also a streamlined/cost saving/better allocation of money on the investment. It's also integrated into a marketing plan that I've concocted. It will allow their original expansion plans to be 50%+ more successful, if not more over the long term.

[Sparky]

I'm not sure if an NDA would do much for you, it's just an agreement that they won't tell any third party about your idea. However, you are worried about them and not a third party.
...
It seems as that an NDA can also be structured to protect against that:

Many NDAs are unilateral, or one-way agreements, where one party wants to disclose certain information to another party but needs the information to remain secret for some reason, perhaps due to secrecy requirements required to satisfy patent laws or to make sure that the other party does not take and use the disclosed information without compensating the discloser.

It seems like this is appropriate. Tell you contact your perceived benefits of implementation, without telling him the details of how to achieve it, and see if he agrees that it would be beneficial or lucrative.

NDA discription on Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement)

[Glass]

We use NDA's where our clients ask us not to disclose. It's funny because not one of the several we have done have been furnished by the client. We always supply them. They are a good start and open the way to pursure damages.

Keep that in mind. An NDA is not to prevent the theft of your idea, it is to ease the process of obtaining damages when your ideas are stolen. In some instances (hopefully most instances) people will honour the NDA.

Patents can be used for New methodologies using existing technology. Doesn't necessarily need to be new tech or invention. Could be new way of using or combining existing technologies. Usually at least two in combination. Making something greater than the sum of parts.

I would find a way to go slow with the guy. Not give the idea up in one hit.

Here is my suggestion.

Can you develop and offer this idea as a service? Others alluded to it. You get to keep control of the IP. You can offer it to other businesses in same or similar markets.

[BabushkaLady]

It's a restaurant idea for an existing franchise that wants to expand. It's also a streamlined/cost saving/better allocation of money on the investment. It's also integrated into a marketing plan that I've concocted. It will allow their original expansion plans to be 50%+ more successful, if not more over the long term.

Dovetails nicely with this:



Can you develop and offer this idea as a service? Others alluded to it. You get to keep control of the IP. You can offer it to other businesses in same or similar markets.

You mentioned Passion in your OP--based on that, you should pursue your idea. What do you have to lose?

[Ares]

I agree with obtaining a signed NDA before proceeding. It would depend on how involved you wanted to be in the implementation of the project. You can sell the idea straight out, or you can offer to assist in it's implementation. Even offer to do it for free or greatly reduced for a percentage of the potential x% of profits saved.

When I got out of the Navy, I worked at a factory for about 6 months. During that time we (the entire company) was told that if you can think of a better more efficient process take it to the plant supervisors. You get paid the difference in the efficiency you created. A number of guys made quite a bit of money. Even a couple improved efficiency to the point that they no longer needed to work as they sold the idea, floor plan and selected royalty based compensation.

Also depends on if he's open to the idea. Being a semi-business owner myself I would be interested in hearing about how I can improve my workflow.

IF, and I say it again IF he signs an NDA, go back from time to time to make sure that he hasn't or isn't implementing your idea. If he does create a cease and desist letter and if he doesn't comply then you've got record as well as a signed NDA to protect your property.

[JohnQPublic]

Is it something you could patent? You can write a patent without bringing it to practice. Offer to sell the patent rights.

[midnight rambler]

A NDA only works for those with the deep pockets to pursue litigation; if you can't afford the time and money to follow through on suing to the limit (and your adversary knows this) then it's pointless - imo.

[Twisted Titan]

A NDA only works for those with the deep pockets to pursue litigation; if you can't afford the time and money to follow through on suing to the limit (and your adversary knows this) then it's pointless - imo.

QFT

Lawsuits are The Sports of Kings.


If a company see what you have and snatches it and you pursue legal action you have to rememeber one thing:

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCEto

You file your patent infringement claim and they imediately counter by filing a injuction which they are always granted at that time they can continue to take your product to market getting paid hand over fist and injuctions give a offending company MONTHS to sell your product with absolute impunity.

So lets go with the best case scenario and say you get the injuct overturned AND the company is found to be at fault. Good luck trying to recover damages and if you try and take your product to market guess what? It was the "hot Thing" for just a moment and consumer purchases will be spotty at best. The average sheep is all about the "new thing" not the widget from 6 months ago.

Mean while the legal department will string out that damage recovery fiasco for years ( Its what they do).



Am I saying dont do it? Absolutely not Just make sure you understand that a Patent wont protect sh!t if a big enough vulture catches a whiff of your meal ticket.


Look at being bought out for your idea or a highly paid consultant. I mean think about it. with enough money you can ALWAYS come up with the next bright idea that will rake in millions.


Edison is elevated to status of a God but the truth of the matter is he hired scores of starving inventors and entrepanuers paid them peanuts and slapped his name on all their hard work...... His crowning Theft was that of Nikola Telsa.

Sorry i didnt mean to go on rambling expo but I just want to make sure you keep your wits about you and there is always more then way to skin a cat and in this case bring your level of brilliance to the world at large and due so in a way were you are protected ,highly compensated and recognized

[Libertytree]

Thank you for all your replies and advice, it's greatly appreciated. I've had the basic idea in my head for months but am now moving onto the finer parts and this is where it gets interesting. I'm not in a hurry and there's still lots of work to do and you've given me some great mental food and tha't is a big help.

After I get it all done or at least think I'm done I'll probably share it in the Lounge. I love yaw'lls input! Thanks again :)

[Glass]

So lets go with the best case scenario and say you get the injuct overturned AND the company is found to be at fault. Good luck trying to recover damages and if you try and take your product to market guess what? It was the "hot Thing" for just a moment and consumer purchases will be spotty at best. The average sheep is all about the "new thing" not the widget from 6 months ago.

Mean while the legal department will string out that damage recovery fiasco for years ( Its what they do).


Good points. If you do get a judgement you could hand it over to the IRS for collection. Treasury might be able to handle it as well. Otherwise go lien crazy. It sounds hard but its not. Just need to do a bit of leg work.

anyway I think we should flip it around. I hope Libertytree's idea proves fruitful for him and who ever else gets on board. I say go for it.