Death Certificates ...

[palani]

on a vehicle. Aka Junking Certificate.


http://www.iowadot.gov/endoflifevehicles/junkingcertificate.html

Junking certificate
A vehicle owner(s) may turn in their "end-of-life" vehicle’s current title and registration plates to their county treasurer and receive, free of charge, a junking certificate.

A junking certificate will allow the vehicle’s owner(s) to transfer ownership of the vehicle to another entity/individual by virtue of an assignment on the certificate. A junking certificate is the “death certificate” for the vehicle.

The vehicle can never be titled again, unless:

The vehicle owner(s) requests that the title be reinstated within 14 days of the junking certificate’s date of issue. To reinstate the title, an application must be filed with the county treasurer and appropriate fees paid.
Following the 14-day period, the title can only be reinstated if the owner makes an application for certificate of title to the Iowa DOT, and the department determines that the junking certificate was obtained by mistake or inadvertence.

Remember all those charitable institutions begging for you junk vehicles. So you donate it to them and they obtain a Junking Certificate. This certificate is issued with the full ORIGINAL value of the vehicle (see reification ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification).

Here you thought you were donating a $200 piece of junk and they are capable instead of receiving the full original price of the vehicle by endorsing the Junking Certificate and returning it.

[woodman]

on a vehicle. Aka Junking Certificate.


http://www.iowadot.gov/endoflifevehicles/junkingcertificate.html


Remember all those charitable institutions begging for you junk vehicles. So you donate it to them and they obtain a Junking Certificate. This certificate is issued with the full ORIGINAL value of the vehicle (see reification ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification).

Here you thought you were donating a $200 piece of junk and they are capable instead of receiving the full original price of the vehicle by endorsing the Junking Certificate and returning it.

You are saying that they may write off the full original purchase value of the vehicle in some manner? This does not make sense to me. Please clarify.

[7th trump]

You are saying that they may write off the full original purchase value of the vehicle in some manner? This does not make sense to me. Please clarify.

Good luck with getting any clarification from palani......all you are going to receive from palani is more mumbo gumbo to which if you dont understand the further "mumbo-jumbo" clarification, palani calls you stupid.

I wouldnt put much stock into what palani has to say....hes already proven he doesnt know much about law.
Hes one of those guys that believes frn's are what causes everyone to have to pay federal income taxes when the law says that 26usc 3121(b) "employment" is the cause and reason.
Like I say dont expect much from Palani.........he doesn't study any statutes and therefore doesnt know himself!

[madfranks]

Here you thought you were donating a $200 piece of junk and they are capable instead of receiving the full original price of the vehicle by endorsing the Junking Certificate and returning it.

How do they receive the full original price? Who pays it? Or is it a tax write off?

[palani]

You are saying that they may write off the full original purchase value of the vehicle in some manner? This does not make sense to me. Please clarify.

I am saying charitable institutions reap quite a windfall when they junk out a car or boat. The manufacturers certificate of origin and 'title' create the vessel. There is no money so where do you suppose the original loan amount actually came from? It was the bond. Upon destruction of the paper (who really cares about the vessel after all ... in a plane where paper is money things that are real have no existence) the value is left abandoned. Go ahead and claim it.

Check out Glass's work on this thread ... same principle.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?66832-Social-Security-Sucks!/page7

[palani]

Good luck with getting any clarification from palani.

I don't waste energy clarifying with one who chooses to not understand. Do you think you could describe the Grand Canyon to someone who has never seen?

[palani]

How do they receive the full original price? Who pays it? Or is it a tax write off?

Rather than attempt to reap the benefit yourself why not mark PAY TO: The United States of America. Then endorse it and send it back.

[madfranks]

Rather than attempt to reap the benefit yourself why not mark PAY TO: The United States of America. Then endorse it and send it back.

What if I don't want to pay it to the United States of America? What if I want to reap the benefit myself?

And I ask out of genuine interest here. While I'm skeptical about the reality of reclaiming the full original value from a junked car, the fact is that in a couple weeks my dad is junking a old, non running vehicle and for novelty's sake maybe I'd like to try this.

[palani]

What if I don't want to pay it to the United States of America? What if I want to reap the benefit myself?

And I ask out of genuine interest here. While I'm skeptical about the reality of reclaiming the full original value from a junked car, the fact is that in a couple weeks my dad is junking a old, non running vehicle and for novelty's sake maybe I'd like to try this.

Then you might have him provide the endorsement and PAY TO you. The only reason I suggest donating the funds to the United States is that this donation might be used to reduce taxes. Seems from my observations that there is an unwritten law that those who attempt to decipher the system and get too close receive extra measure of penalty. I have never seen this explained in any source but rather those who attempt to profit seem always to receive punishment. This is not Man's law. It's source is higher. Call it a function of Nature.

[7th trump]

Then you might have him provide the endorsement and PAY TO you. The only reason I suggest donating the funds to the United States is that this donation might be used to reduce taxes. Seems from my observations that there is an unwritten law that those who attempt to decipher the system and get too close receive extra measure of penalty. I have never seen this explained in any source but rather those who attempt to profit seem always to receive punishment. This is not Man's law. It's source is higher. Call it a function of Nature.

Well heres all the clarity palani can musterly explain, which is saying, without actually admitting, that he doesnt really know or understand.

Seems from my observations that there is an unwritten law that those who attempt to decipher the system and get too close receive extra measure of penalty
Thats the best palani has ever admitted to.

The reason palani beleives theres an "unwritten" law behind deciphering the system is, lets not kids ourselves, its because palani and the others havent really deciphered anything.
They are looking in the wrong direction and every direction imaginable.
The answer has been right under his nose, but the idiots that influence palani want their cake and eat it to.

Want to stop paying federal taxes?.....well then its as easy as "dont participate in Social Security".
The one direction that all these researchers (self proclaimed scholars of the law WHO NEVER GIVE A STRAIGHT UP ANSWER.) never looked at was the "what's" "when's" "how's" and "why's" of "REPORTING".
Theres politics involved with participating in Social Security. Social Security doesnt hide anything from anybody when it comes to "jurisdiction and subject".
The Social Security Act blatantly tells you up front that when any individual participates you are under federal jurisdiction and that multiple taxes are going to be imposed on your paycheck including the federal income tax itself.

[palani]

Want to stop paying federal taxes?

See here I am describing the Grand Canyon and you divert the topic to the Himalayas. How is donating the returns from a $20,000 - $30,000 vehicle to the United States avoiding paying federal taxes? Talk about charitable giving learn to forgive first in order to be forgiven.

[7th trump]

See here I am describing the Grand Canyon and you divert the topic to the Himalayas. How is donating the returns from a $20,000 - $30,000 vehicle to the United States avoiding paying federal taxes? Talk about charitable giving learn to forgive first in order to be forgiven.

Because you havent one (1) piece of evidence to support your claim.

[palani]

Because you havent one (1) piece of evidence to support your claim.

You're in Iowa. I posted an Iowa web site. Find yourself a junk vehicle and follow their instructions. See if you get a certificate with a monetary value.

It isn't rocket science but I don't expect Zimbabwe to launch a Mars expedition either.

[7th trump]

You're in Iowa. I posted an Iowa web site. Find yourself a junk vehicle and follow their instructions. See if you get a certificate with a monetary value.

It isn't rocket science but I don't expect Zimbabwe to launch a Mars expedition either.
Why on earth would I try it?

Your interpretation of law has always been suspect Palani.
Take for instance your link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification that you say/suggests the junk title is worth the full value of the original price........... is a flat out lie!
Where did you come up with the idea the junk title is worth the original price palani?
Nowhere in your link does it even suggest the junk title is worth the original price of the vehicle.


You would never attempt this crock of crap, so why are you saying the junk title can be worth the original price of the end of life vehicle when no evidence suggest that?

[palani]

Why on earth would I try it? Then don't complain.


Your interpretation of law has always been suspect Palani. Yours has been idiotic.



Take for instance your link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification that you say/suggests the junk title is worth the full value of the original price........... is a flat out lie! See there is this big hole in the ground out west. If you are blind explaining it to you does not do this hole justice.



Where did you come up with the idea the junk title is worth the original price palani? Saw one over the weekend. A guy I know had his car towed and the towing company decided to get the Junking Certificate. He had it in his hands. I saw it.



Nowhere in your link does it even suggest the junk title is worth the original price of the vehicle. Don't try getting one then and continue fat, dumb and blind.



You would never attempt this crock of crap, so why are you saying the junk title can be worth the original price of the end of life vehicle when no evidence suggest that? I don't trade in vehicle titles anymore. Neither do I trade in fake money. However if you will donate a junk vehicle to me I will gladly apply for the Junking Certificate just to donate to a good cause (the United States deficit).

[7th trump]

Then don't complain.

Yours has been idiotic.


See there is this big hole in the ground out west. If you are blind explaining it to you does not do this hole justice.


Saw one over the weekend. A guy I know had his car towed and the towing company decided to get the Junking Certificate. He had it in his hands. I saw it.


Don't try getting one then and continue fat, dumb and blind.


I don't trade in vehicle titles anymore. Neither do I trade in fake money. However if you will donate a junk vehicle to me I will gladly apply for the Junking Certificate just to donate to a good cause (the United States deficit).
You havent started explaining anything yet palani.


Anyone reading this thread about junk certificates..........heres the truth!
Palani completely CONcocted the idea in his head that junk certificate are worth the original price of the vehicle?
(The reality is a "junk certificate" only make the vehicle so it cannot be registered for travel. No monatary value is assigned the junk certificate.)

Palani wont try this because he knows its all a lie. All he'll do is take your junk vehicle (worth scrap metal) and use it to reduce his tax liability.
Hes a con-artist word salad politician.

Anyway Palani you said you seen a junk certificate over the weekend. I saw and heard a flock of Canadian geese today......doesnt make the "junk certificate" equal to the value of the original price, so what makes you think just because you seen a junk certificate its worth the original price of the vehicle?

BTW, you can go down to the DMV and get the same "junk certioficate" there as well....no biggie....I did it last year!

[palani]

No monatary value is assigned the junk certificate.)
Your argument would have more impact if the spelling were correct.


... use it to reduce his tax liability. Hard to get below zero liability.


what makes you think just because you seen a junk certificate its worth the original price of the vehicle? After your death certificate is probated what value do you suppose will be assigned to it?

[Hatha Sunahara]

I am looking at the Wikipedia link on Reification in the OP. I presume your point inthe OP was to somehow take advantage of the fact that the Junking certificate (the Death Certificate for the Junk Car) states the car's value at it's original purchase price. This of course is a fiction, but 'reification' would turn it into a non fiction and allow you to reap the benefit of the state's official valuation of this piece of junk. Please tell me if I could get away with the following:

I go to the DMV in my state, and ask for a junking certificate for my 25 year old Jeep, which in 1988 cost $8750. I then take the Jeep to Goodwill industries and donate it to them, giving them the Junking Certificate instead of the title. Assuming they accept the vehicle (which is worth perhaps $500) and the junking certificate, do I get to claim $8750 as a donation for tax purposes? Or will the IRS make me use the current market value ($500) of the piece of junk as the amount I can use as a 'charitable contribution'? Or could I just take it to the junkyard, collect $500, and claim an $8250 loss on the vehicle for tax purposes?

That would be what I consider 'reification' to my advantage. Is this what you are getting at, or have I missed the point?


Hatha

[7th trump]

Your argument would have more impact if the spelling were correct.

Hard to get below zero liability.

After your death certificate is probated what value do you suppose will be assigned to it?

Zero liability because you think redeeming frn's magically makes them non-taxable huh?

Silly Palani....tricks are for kids!

[7th trump]

I am looking at the Wikipedia link on Reification in the OP. I presume your point inthe OP was to somehow take advantage of the fact that the Junking certificate (the Death Certificate for the Junk Car) states the car's value at it's original purchase price. This of course is a fiction, but 'reification' would turn it into a non fiction and allow you to reap the benefit of the state's official valuation of this piece of junk. Please tell me if I could get away with the following:

I go to the DMV in my state, and ask for a junking certificate for my 25 year old Jeep, which in 1988 cost $8750. I then take the Jeep to Goodwill industries and donate it to them, giving them the Junking Certificate instead of the title. Assuming they accept the vehicle (which is worth perhaps $500) and the junking certificate, do I get to claim $8750 as a donation for tax purposes? Or will the IRS make me use the current market value ($500) of the piece of junk as the amount I can use as a 'charitable contribution'? Or could I just take it to the junkyard, collect $500, and claim an $8250 loss on the vehicle for tax purposes?

That would be what I consider 'reification' to my advantage. Is this what you are getting at, or have I missed the point?


Hatha
No, I think you pretty much have it Hatha....thats the premise anyway.

Like Palani stated...........you'll probably get in some sort of trouble. Hence why he wouldnt do it.

[Glass]

I think that scenario, te charity etc, could be classed as unjust enrichment. I would go palani's proposed path of endorsing it to the IRS OR endorsing it to the Charity. Have them endorse it as pay to IRS -> Charities Acc#. If they (IRS) can process it they will. If they can't they will send it back or it will disappear. Would they send out the heavies? Who knows.

I suppose the Charity would maybe not have an Acc# but I suspect they would. Just because they are excempt doesn't mean they don't have to make an accounting of the value of their exemption.

In australia we call it a Statutory write off. This kind of write off, the vehicle can no longer be registered, cannot be re-registered and can only be driven on private land. Then there is the Repairable write off. This is more of an insurance write off. The insurance company determines cost to repair is greater than value of working vehicle. The vehicle can remain registered and if repaired to approved standard can remain on the road and in use.

[palani]

Is this what you are getting at, or have I missed the point?


Hatha

My only point with reification is that you live in a paper society. Things that are real are only represented by paper. Several examples:

1) After a gold robbery where the thieves got away with a pile of PM one broker was heard stating: "There couldn't have been a robbery because I still hold my warehouse receipts." In his mind the warehouse receipts represented the gold.

2) If you attempt to pay a fine in any court using gold or silver (non-domestic) you will be told the court only accepts paper money in the form of FRNs. They have no sense of value only that their court is part of the Federal Reserve system and only accept FRNs. If you are REAL then what are you doing in this foreign court?

4) DHS recently came out and suggested that scissors were a defense against assault rifles. Think about that. In their mind it is the guns paperwork that kills you. The gun doesn't matter to them, only the paperwork. Well, if the paperwork kills then destroy the paperwork with a scissors. Reification. The thing is substituted for a symbol.

5) In an unfortunate accident involving a Cessna 170 and a defective hollow axle a plane was damaged irreparably. It was parted out and the airworthiness certificate went missing. To the FAA this was a major defect and they pursued the matter 10 years later. You see in their mind it was not large planes that hit the twin towers in New York. It was that little slip of registration paper. The idea that this paper was still out there on a plane that would never fly again was disturbing to them because it could be use by a terrorist. I almost got my tit in a wringer over this one but quickly sent them payment ($2) for a replacement slip of paper and told them to keep it because I had no further use for it.

[palani]

Zero liability because you think redeeming frn's magically makes them non-taxable huh?

Silly Palani....tricks are for kids!

Was this thread about redeeming FRNs or are you diverting the thread?

Don't you have a thread open suggesting banning another member for using similar tactics?

[palani]

Hence why he wouldnt do it.

palani wouldn't do it because he deals more in substance than in paper symbols.

[7th trump]

palani wouldn't do it because he deals more in substance than in paper symbols.
This is why nobody should trust you. You're like a slippery snake when it comes to clarification and documentation.
You are no different than a word-salad politician that I keep refering you as.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Thank you Palani. In Latin, re means thing. Reification then would mean 'making it a thing'. The map is not the territory.


Hatha

[palani]

You are no different than a word-salad politician that I keep refering you as.

Could be in the process of my exposing logical fallacies you have come to believe I am trying to SELL you something?

Use your mind, whatever little you have to work with.

[palani]

Remember CASH FOR CLUNKERS. Taxpayers thought they were getting the royal shaft, government accepting all those old junk cars and giving out $5,000 credits for new cars. Did you really think the government was going to lose money on this? What if they got each of the Junk Certificates at $15,000 each (hypothecated). Government saved each taxpayer ($15,000 - $5,000 == $10,000) per car traded in. Plus they stimulated the manufacture of new cars.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Remember CASH FOR CLUNKERS. Taxpayers thought they were getting the royal shaft, government accepting all those old junk cars and giving out $5,000 credits for new cars. Did you really think the government was going to lose money on this? What if they got each of the Junk Certificates at $15,000 each (hypothecated). Government saved each taxpayer ($15,000 - $5,000 == $10,000) per car traded in. Plus they stimulated the manufacture of new cars.

LOL! I have to laugh. Your are posting here with tongue in cheek. Or are you absolving yourself by using the word hypothecated. It will be a cold day in hell when the government saves the taxpayers any real money. The clunkers are like CDS derivatives. They have a 'notional' value--in this case the original purchase price. Their market value was the scrap value of the metal, which is much lower. I would assume generously that the scrap metal value of a typical car is $500. So in the real world, the government lost $4500 per clunker. But on paper, it could legitimately claim that it saved the taxpayers $10,000 per clunker. Whoever in the government dreamed this idea up must have gotten a huge cash reward for the idea (/sarcasm/). And of course, they stimulated the manufacture of new cars of Japanese and European Corporations as much or more than American corporations. It was a globalization stimulus.

The government could provide the same stimulus to the auto industry by encouraging our domestic thieves to steal more cars. Then the insurance companies would pay for replacement of those cars, and people would buy new ones with the insurance money. That wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything, but insurance rates would sure as hell go up.


Hatha

[palani]

The government could provide the same stimulus to the auto industry by encouraging our domestic thieves to steal more cars.
Hatha

Precisely. As I have suggested to my dentist that he could improve his cash flow if he would just place a jar of candy on his counter.

You have to understand marketing and YOU MUST KNOW THE TERRITORY!!!! (Watched THE MUSIC MAN recently)

[palani]

It will be a cold day in hell when the government saves the taxpayers any real money.

Hatha

The government is very aware that there is no money. But they do have an 'economy', the concept of a bunch of statistic that somehow tells them that they are doing right for the people they represent. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending upon your viewpoint) these people they are trying to perform a service for are not you or I. Instead they are those people who are not capable of governing themselves so band together so as to better tell others who are capable of governing themselves how they are doing things improperly.