My Land Patent came handy today....

[Ponce]

Today a green pick up drove into my driveway, I went outside and he told me that he was some kind of land inspector, I asked him if he didn't see my posted sign and he said no........me "Well, I have a land patent which makes this land a private property and can only come in here with either my approval from the US Supreme Court or the President of the US"...him "Oh really now, the country gave me permission to walk into any property that I wanted to"... me "Tell you what, park away from my property and I'll bring you a copy of the documment"... him "OK'.......I showed him the document and said "Wowwwwww is signed by the president"....me "That's right, so don' walk in here anymore".....he then made some notes and told me that he would tell everyone else.....he didn't even know what a land patent was.

I am still learning about the property tax which I think tha it is illegal.

V

[madfranks]

...him "Oh really now, the country gave me permission to walk into any property that I wanted to"...

Did he say "country" as in he was a federal agent, or did he say "county" as in he worked for the local county government?

[chad]

the president signed your land patent?

[Serpo]

the president signed your land patent?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vEWUOH70IoE/UNsESWNe82I/AAAAAAAAPMg/1ZG9ugDySQs/s1600/obama.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=qUjaiX2m-mf1AM&tbnid=r4udaza_L1EqDM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwADhU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bforbel.com%2F2012%2F12%2Fwhe n-you-turn-obamas-signature-sideways.html&ei=L2wdUdyIMI-ciAfL1oGwDg&psig=AFQjCNHPCmIWD6UjVw3I1yXtx1Zg1NTM7Q&ust=1360969135827171)

[Glass]

if the title is fee simple then land taxes etc don't apply. Send a cert copy of the patent to the head honcho at the place levying the taxes. Or send the copy when you return the next bill they send you. Be better if the bill doesn't get created in the first place but first time out is likely to occur. Beyond that the bills should stop coming.

It is good that the guy respected you Ponce.

[palani]

Discovered some old land books at the state capital a couple days ago. They show the land patents issued, to whom, the amount per acre and the total paid. Sort of like a receipt for payment.

[Ponce]

Sorry about that, is county..........signed by president Grover Cleveland.

Well Glass, I am still wondering abut that, I already had a mail corespondace with hime and he said that I had to pay anyway......I really don't care about the tax but more of not allowing anyone to to me into my property.

Land Patent came about in 1820....the state of Oregon came with their constituion in 1850 and my land patent was from 1880....now then........even thou the Federal government knew about the constitution of 1850 they still gave the land patent in 1880..............as far as I know the Fed has more power then the state.........but...........no one will confirm this...

V

[Serpo]

if the title is fee simple then land taxes etc don't apply. Send a cert copy of the patent to the head honcho at the place levying the taxes. Or send the copy when you return the next bill they send you. Be better if the bill doesn't get created in the first place but first time out is likely to occur. Beyond that the bills should stop coming.

It is good that the guy respected you Ponce.


did you progress with anything like this in OZ glass? Land patent ect I mean

[palani]

...as far as I know the Fed has more power then the state.........but...........no one will confirm this...

V

What you call the state is a group of people. A body politic. It is not an outline on a map.

Prior to being accepted to the status of a state with a connection to the federal government all public lands must be donated to the feds so they may then issue land patents.

It is not really a good idea for the federal government to hold on to any public lands at all. In the event of a war and should the government be conquered the invader gets all public buildings, papers and lands. Private lands continue to be held by their owners. By holding on to all those lands out west all the feds are doing is giving more incentive to invade and conquer (and don't think the Chinese don't know this).

[Glass]

did you progress with anything like this in OZ glass? Land patent ect I mean

I am still looking Serpo. I mentioned in another thread my ancestors came here in the begining. I suspect they may have had some kind of grant as part of their emigration. The land has long been sold on. Still interested in tracing it back. I have some info on the type of titles we have here. While I thought fee simple was dead here, it is actually the only valid title type in Australia so all the land is exempt from taxation. Someone sent me a fair bit of good research on this. I don't have a net source for it. I'll find one or post a copy to drop box if you are interested. Here it is: http://nsw.onenation.com.au/PropertyRights1.pdf

Ponce, something that came up here when researching land patents and titles. It is possible to remove your title from the registration system. This should then stop it appearing on Tax Rolls.

I'd be interested to know if you have looked at this aspect. Perhaps your land still appears on the land tax rolls and there might be some action needed to remove it.

[General of Darkness]

Interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK2jA0pYd0U

[Glass]

Interesting.

While she is promoting herself as part of this, I think her knowledge of the subject and her passion for the truth are good. Here is someone who didn't stop learning just because they stopped being educated.

[Ponce]

I went to all the email mentioned by her and on the first one all that I hit was a Jewist side with Jewish letter...and at the rest of .com's they were no longer available....tomorrow I will call both numbers for her mentioned at different places.....
313 736-5505 and 313 740-4644.

By the way.....reading and learning is to the mind is what gasoline is to a car.

Read my one of my signatures.

V

[Serpo]

I am still looking Serpo. I mentioned in another thread my ancestors came here in the begining. I suspect they may have had some kind of grant as part of their emigration. The land has long been sold on. Still interested in tracing it back. I have some info on the type of titles we have here. While I thought fee simple was dead here, it is actually the only valid title type in Australia so all the land is exempt from taxation. Someone sent me a fair bit of good research on this. I don't have a net source for it. I'll find one or post a copy to drop box if you are interested. Here it is: http://nsw.onenation.com.au/PropertyRights1.pdf

Ponce, something that came up here when researching land patents and titles. It is possible to remove your title from the registration system. This should then stop it appearing on Tax Rolls.

I'd be interested to know if you have looked at this aspect. Perhaps your land still appears on the land tax rolls and there might be some action needed to remove it.

I would be because I pay rates........havnt studied this enough but am working towards this....maybe something on this site.....http://loveforlife.com.au/node/895


(http://loveforlife.com.au/node/895)http://loveforlife.com.au/content/08/05/21/allodial-title-law-property-ownership


http://loveforlife.com.au/content/10/03/02/classified-files-thomas-andersons-book-series-books-government-banks-and-corporatio

[Glass]

I would be because I pay rates........havnt studied this enough but am working towards this....maybe something on this site.....http://loveforlife.com.au/node/895


(http://loveforlife.com.au/node/895)http://loveforlife.com.au/content/08/05/21/allodial-title-law-property-ownership


http://loveforlife.com.au/content/10/03/02/classified-files-thomas-andersons-book-series-books-government-banks-and-corporatio

The document from the link I gave can also be found at that web site I think. The classified files guy.... I've heard some recordings he has done. Haven't read his stuff though. I struggle to listen to him I'm afraid. Not sure why although he seems to be one of the more structured information sharers out there.

Lovefor life has a ton of information but it's grown organically over time so it is also hard to find stuff. Google does a good job of searching it though.

In WA we have Landgate which hosts all of the land titles. Under their procedures it is possible to remove the title from the register if all parties like mortgagor and mortgagee are in agreement. We use the the Torrens system. I don't know if it is a series of state registers or if it is a national one. I am going to say it's state based because all of the dominions had their own nuances on land titles before federating into states of the commonwealth.

[Serpo]

http://www.clrg.info/

[drafter]

After years of reading about this Land Patent stuff on both GIM and here, I still just don't understand it. I have the deed to my property signed by the county clerk etc., but I still have to pay taxes. It just doesn't sound like a "patent" is going to gain me anything if I'm still going to have to pay taxes to the state. I'm also in Oregon too so if Ponce isn't having any luck getting out of his taxes I don't see much hope in the matter.

Even having deed to my property, the government still says I can't build what I want without permits, etc., and I still have to pay taxes. So while I "own" it, it's kind of like having a car with no engine or tires. I can sit in it and and smile at the fact it's mine, but it's sorta useless otherwise.

[Ponce]

The deed is different than a land patent...a deed only transfers the right for you to take over the payments of the taxes but you don't own the land itself.....you have to follow the chain of command all the way to the first property owner to prove that you are now the true owner of the land.......

I am still trying to get hold of Anita (from the fideo) but no answer as of yet.

V

[drafter]

My wife used to work for a Title Company so I understand chain of title and such going back, but I don't see how any of that makes me any more or less of an owner than the deed does. Looking at chain of ownership is not going to provide much more than an interesting history lesson as far as I can tell. That fact still remains, the county isn't letting anybody off the hook for taxes. If you manage to get out of paying taxes without the county putting up your land for auction, then I'll be all ears.

[chad]

My wife used to work for a Title Company so I understand chain of title and such going back, but I don't see how any of that makes me any more or less of an owner than the deed does. Looking at chain of ownership is not going to provide much more than an interesting history lesson as far as I can tell. That fact still remains, the county isn't letting anybody off the hook for taxes. If you manage to get out of paying taxes without the county putting up your land for auction, then I'll be all ears.

this.

[Ponce]

My wife used to work for a Title Company so I understand chain of title and such going back, but I don't see how any of that makes me any more or less of an owner than the deed does. Looking at chain of ownership is not going to provide much more than an interesting history lesson as far as I can tell. That fact still remains, the county isn't letting anybody off the hook for taxes. If you manage to get out of paying taxes without the county putting up your land for auction, then I'll be all ears.

I know Drafter.....that's what I am traing to overcome at this time....the tax man said that I had to pay my taxes anyway, and no one will tell me why, congress and the president of the US is as far as you can go and any other law becomes only a Jr law......but.......no one want's to confirm this....I am still looking around.

Like I said before.........when they made the constitution of Oregon they said that everyone had to pay taxes but nothing about loosing your private property status, kind of confusing.

V

[madfranks]

I know Drafter.....that's what I am traing to overcome at this time....the tax man said that I had to pay my taxes anyway, and no one will tell me why, congress and the president of the US is as far as you can go and any other law becomes only a Jr law......but.......no one want's to confirm this....I am still looking around.

Like I said before.........when they made the constitution of Oregon they said that everyone had to pay taxes but nothing about loosing your private property status, kind of confusing.

V

It is confusing, when you try to dig through the incomprehensible reams of legal jargon and adopted property laws regarding taxation. The essence of it all though, is crystal clear, and you don't have to spend your time trying to comprehend the minutia of it all to understand this basic truth: they demand your money, and you must pay it, and if you resist sufficiently, they will kill you.

[Glass]

The whole of the land is under lien for the bankruptcy. There is a debt outstanding on your land. You need to find out how much that is and pay it off in lawful money. Then you get the property removed from the rolls. The Rolls are the evidence used by the assessor to distribute the fee for the use of the land you are all on.


My wife used to work for a Title Company so I understand chain of title and such going back, but I don't see how any of that makes me any more or less of an owner than the deed does. Looking at chain of ownership is not going to provide much more than an interesting history lesson as far as I can tell. That fact still remains, the county isn't letting anybody off the hook for taxes. If you manage to get out of paying taxes without the county putting up your land for auction, then I'll be all ears.

Because the title can be separated into 2. Original title (I'll call it that for now) and equitable title. Real Estate (on the land) is equitable title. Real property (of the land) is title you want ultimately. Patent comes in here but it's got to be free of debt and most US land is underwater due to debt. If you redeem both the equitable and the patent you hold superior interest in both and no one can lay a claim on your land. It takes away the leverage that Govt have been using to strong arm people to pay taxes. That leverage has been to pay or lose your home.

[Ponce]

Well, at least my property is safe......I just found that the law about paying property taxes in Oregon came about in 1816 and the law of Land Patent came about in 1820.....so what the state did was simply to add the 1816 law to the Oregon Constitution that came about in 1850...... but....... nothing was said about you not having a "PRIVATE PROPERTY" to that any said laws in the books are still valid and enforsable.....like, no one can come into your propery, you can build anything without a permit, you can defend it anyway you can and so on.

Now then...something that I came up with....... "You cannot loose your property for not paying taxes or debts" right? ....so that if you don't pay your taxes it then becomes a debt.........and that part of the law on private propery still applys.

To me the above would become a catch 22 for the state.

V

[palani]

The highest title is when ownership and possession are joined in the same person (note person is not man). This tells you that possession and ownership may be separated. This is what happens when seizure for back taxes occur. The state can not claim ownership of the property, only the tax lien, the paper covering the property. So the sheriff comes out to dispossess you and you remain dispossessed until you buy back your paper (or it might come down to your heirs suing for replevin).

This is why you should do your own search of the land records. If there is a tax lien even that has disrupted the chain of title back to the land patent then you might end up purchasing much less than you really thought you were.

[Ponce]

Palani? all that had to be done before getting the land patent......besides that the Sheriff cannot just walk into your property ...... I don't feel like getting into all that but I have done my search.....dumb not = stupid.

[7th trump]

Palani? all that had to be done before getting the land patent......besides that the Sheriff cannot just walk into your property ...... I don't feel like getting into all that but I have done my search.....dumb not = stupid.

Dont put to much stock in anything Palani has to say about taxes and land patents Ponce.
Palani himself doesnt even know what causes taxes (DOESNT HAVE A CLUE!!!)......much less how to get stop the taxes.
Palani's method of operation is much like a doctor............all he does is a great attempt at treating the symptoms without actually curing anything.

If you want a good starting place in understanding how land is imposed property taxes go to the proper assessment office...city, county....ect and ask to see the registry.
The office has a registry (list) of all land it can assess a tax. Ask to see the regulations and statutes governing the registery. What you are going to most likely find is somewhere the land is in the registry because of kind of city benefit such as fire and police response. If not that then the law trail leads directly to the federal government where the government allows states to tax land much the same as states piggy backing the internal revenue laws for a piece of the pie where it all boils down to you standing within the jurisdiction.

Palani just wants to be known for his ability to cite latin......makes him feel important!

[Glass]

7th, I don't think you are saying anything different from what palani or I am saying. The land is on a roll somewhere for taxes. It needs to be removed by extinguishing the cause. The most common cause will be a lien from the US bankrupcty. Fire service is a benefit, not a cause although they will tell it to you like it's the cause. The debt that springs from that is not the cause but merely additional to the claim.

Ponce, it sounds like something they do here. If you are a pensioner and can't afford the council taxes you can defer them and the council will do recovery when the property is sold, i.e. the pensioner dies or relocates, maybe to a care facility. This point about the tax lien was raised way back when you were well into this process. Interesting that it is still an issue.

[Ponce]

I know that Glass.....but......if you live longer than the 6% per year that they take then they will kick you out....besides, I can afford the $625.00 per year for property tax.....between the VA and other goodies I do get my money back in many ways........... I dond't even know it that 6% is compounded or what.

V

[palani]

Dont put to much stock in anything Palani has to say about taxes and land patents Ponce.
Palani just wants to be known for his ability to cite latin......makes him feel important!

You don't know me and I don't know you. And I don't care to know you as I limit my contact with pompous a$$es.

[palani]

The land is on a roll somewhere for taxes. It needs to be removed by extinguishing the cause.
After reading many newspapers prior to 1800 I can tell you that land was seized for taxes even back before there was a hint of bankruptcy.

Body politics are created with no funds. To create funds they either have bake sales or figure out a way to tax. The funds they generate go into the pockets of people who consider themselves more important than you. By taxing you they become more important and they enslave you. You volunteered into this arrangement somewhere along the line. Your consent is necessary and the tax is based upon contract.

So learn to contract your way out.

[steel_ag]

Episode 201

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=39904&cmd=tc

Relevant discussion concerning property taxes. Also mentions a website i havent explored yet... www.hisadvocates.org

[7th trump]

You don't know me and I don't know you. And I don't care to know you as I limit my contact with pompous a$$es.
So...whats pompous about calling you out everytime you make a claim you cannot prove?

[7th trump]

After reading many newspapers prior to 1800 I can tell you that land was seized for taxes even back before there was a hint of bankruptcy.

Body politics are created with no funds. To create funds they either have bake sales or figure out a way to tax. The funds they generate go into the pockets of people who consider themselves more important than you. By taxing you they become more important and they enslave you. You volunteered into this arrangement somewhere along the line. Your consent is necessary and the tax is based upon contract.

So learn to contract your way out.
One of 4,000 plus posts with any meat in it.

[palani]

So...whats pompous about calling you out everytime you make a claim you cannot prove?

You don't have the cajones to call me out.

[palani]

One of 4,000 plus posts with any meat in it.

I thought you were a vegetarian.

[Ponce]

OK ladies, take your cat fight elsewhere.....

V

[7th trump]

You don't have the cajones to call me out.

You havent the synaps needed to see that I already have.

[7th trump]

I thought you were a vegetarian.

Go figure.....
I say I dont eat pork and he thinks I'm a vetetarian........Like I say be carefull of what you hear from this guy.

[palani]

OK ladies, take your cat fight elsewhere.....

V
I am agreeable to this. Apparently the other party lacks respect. Maybe I will get my own 'ban palani' thread.

[a_privatem]

I have to ask, how did you get the President to sign your patent? Too cool and "Smart"

[cheka.]

I have to ask, how did you get the President to sign your patent? Too cool and "Smart"

ponce hasn't posted here for a while. perhaps you can find him in your splc email list

[Jewboo]

I have to ask, how did you get the President to sign your patent? Too cool and "Smart"


https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1449/74/1449745348058.jpg