Guns And Ammo Production Maxed Out: “This is a Society Preparing For War”

[Twisted Titan]

Mac Slavo
February 14th, 2013
SHTFplan.com (http://www.shtfplan.com/)
Comments (765) (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/guns-and-ammo-production-maxed-out-this-is-a-society-preparing-for-war_02142013#comments)
Read by 42,064 people







President Barack Obama is, arguably, the best gun salesman ever (http://www.infowars.com/how-the-post-sandy-hook-gun-control-push-spectacularly-backfired-in-america/). Over 65 million guns have been purchased since the President took office in 2009. FBI background check statistics indicate that, over the last twelve months, Americans purchased a new gun every 1.5 seconds (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/unprecedented-demand-americans-purchase-a-gun-every-1-5-seconds_02062013), a figure which suggests there is much more to the recent panic buying than people just stocking up to go hunting or sports shooting.



The following guns and ammo industry report (http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=285) indicates that every major gun and ammunition manufacturer in the country is running at 100% capacity, with many so far behind that they’ve stopped taking new orders altogether.



Smith & Wesson-is running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.


RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days


FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1. Remington-Maxed out!


Armalite: Maxed out.


DPMS: Can’t get enough parts to produce any more product
.
COLT: Production runs increasing weekly…bottle necked by Bolt carrier’s.


LWRC:Making only black guns, running at full capacity…can’t get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.


Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.


AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line
.
MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.


RELOADERS… ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extra’s for reloading purposes… it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we’ll keep you posted…





Many who have exercised their Second Amendment protections are first time buyers concerned with Federal and State gun grabs being spearheaded by politicians who are using the Sandy Hook school shooting as a pretext to restrict access to personal defense rifles, larger capacity magazines, and even ammunition.


But this may only be a part of why there’s so much demand. There are millions of Americans who are genuinely concerned with not just the government taking their guns, but all of their other Constitutionally protected freedoms as well.


We understand what happens in regimes that disarm their people. We’ve seen thedemocide of the last century (http://www.shtfplan.com/alex-jones/democide-government-killed-over-260-million-in-the-20th-century-poised-to-kill-billions-more-in-the-21st_03162012), which left hundreds of millions of people dead or displaced when their governments turned on them.


We are determined to prevent it from happening in the land of the free.



Manufacturers were running full-bore, but couldn’t come close to keeping up with market demand.
It wasn’t just the AR-15s, the AK-pattern rifles, the M1As, and the FALs that were sold out. It really hit me when I realized that the World War-era M1 Garands, M1 carbines, and Enfield .303s were gone, along with every last shell. Ubiquitous Mosin-Nagants—of which every gun store always seems to have 10-20—were gone. So was their ammo. Only a dust free space marked their passing. I’ve never seen anything like it
.
Every weapon of military utility designed within the past 100+ years was gone.
This isn’t a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war.



Source: Bob Owens via SteveQuayle.com (http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=285)

With over 300 million firearms in America in the hands of private citizens, the people are sending a loud and clear message to their government.
Back off. Stop encroaching on our personal liberties. Limit yourself to your Constitutionally granted powers and nothing more.
You’re not the only ones that are armed.

[midnight rambler]

If the ammo manufacturers are all running three shifts like we keep hearing, then WTF is the ammo. STILL cannot find .22LR ammo in bulk consistently.

[Twisted Titan]

If everybody is asking for something at the same time it just aint gonna happen.

Kinda like if 200,000 all died on the same day and they had they exact same life insurance company.

Good luck if you believe the death benifit is going to get paid in a timely manner

[midnight rambler]

If everybody is asking for something at the same time it just aint gonna happen.

Kinda like if 200,000 all died on the same day and they had they exact same life insurance company.

Good luck if you believe the death benifit is going to get paid in a timely manner

TT the only new production (domestic) .308 I'm seeing is the Magtech stuff, NOTHING else. And the Magtech .308 is VERY sparse. And like I said, WHEN the .22 LR appears it is in VERY limited quantities as well. SGammo had some Aquila .22 last night, but it was no more than 40k rounds and gone in a flash.

I'm not buying this cover story that everyone is just grabbing it all up therefore there's none to be had despite the ammo manufacturers running three shifts. It's just not showing up ANYWHERE with any volume/regularity. Try finding bulk Gold Dot in 9mm or .40. And HydraShok is selling for 50% more than it was (about what Gold Dot was selling for).

[Libertytree]

With all the X billion rounds promised to the .gov and LE is it any wonder there's a shortage?

[Horn]

Brass will be consider a precious metal soon, and China will have cornered the market.

[midnight rambler]

With all the X billion rounds promised to the .gov and LE is it any wonder there's a shortage?

3 or 4 weeks ago there were local teevee nooz stations running reports on how small/suburban police depts were having a problem acquiring training ammo.

So where's all this ammo that's being produced?? ???

[Sparky]

With all the X billion rounds promised to the .gov and LE is it any wonder there's a shortage?

I just read something on this yesterday; maybe it was a link from here.

The response from the government on this issue is that the 1.4 billion rounds is a contract for blanket purchasing over the next 5 years. In other words, the contractor has agreed to supply to the government up to that many rounds at a fixed price. And the government does this every five years, so this is not new. It may have gotten so much attention this time around because it's much more of a story now because gun-related topics are now such a hot button issue. Now, I'm not saying I buy anything the government says, but this is something that can be checked. If the blanket order 5 years ago was for, say, half as many rounds, I'd say that something has changed.

Midnight Rambler raises an interesting point: how much of this current shortage is contrived or artificial? I think we'll know the answer to that in a few months. If the shortage has abated by the start of summer, I think we can attribute it to a legitimate panic rush to load up on ammo before it's taken away. If the shortage persists beyond that (i.e. it persists for the 9+ months that is being talked about), then I think there may be something else going on here.

[chad]

it's trickling in here. i can buy almost handgun or caliber. only ting spotty is 5.56 or .223, but that's because people like me buy every box when it shows up. my fleet farm had a bunch of .223 and 5.56 awhile back, but i literally filled up a shopping cart with every box. i expect there are lots of people like me. the only thing here you can't find any of anywhere is .22LR.

i've been accused of being an asshole by some people i know because i always clean out this certain caliber, but hey, i have to play hardball with the kenyan now.

[sirgonzo420]

it's trickling in here. i can buy almost handgun or caliber. only ting spotty is 5.56 or .223, but that's because people like me buy every box when it shows up. my fleet farm had a bunch of .223 and 5.56 awhile back, but i literally filled up a shopping cart with every box. i expect there are lots of people like me. the only thing here you can't find any of anywhere is .22LR.

i've been accused of being an asshole by some people i know because i always clean out this certain caliber, but hey, i have to play hardball with the kenyan now.

Hope you don't get a "knock on the door" for that post.

Or a drone called in on your ass.

Isn't life in a free country grand?

[chad]

Hope you don't get a "knock on the door" for that post.

Or a drone called in on your ass.

Isn't life in a free country grand?

on the bright side, he takes vacation and golfs a lot, so there's a certain amount of self-imposed retarded things he can do. mamboni will get the knock long before i do :D

[gunDriller]

Hope you don't get a "knock on the door" for that post.

Or a drone called in on your ass.

Isn't life in a free country grand?

it's just a little baseball metaphor.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsM42cGERpm-zNqYCl1Xkn-NHBjgAPodUu4bHxdw-SgboEdmN6

a reference to "America's Favorite Pastimes" ... guns and baseball.


i would say the war started on 9-11, when the Neocon (Jew) run government sacrificed 3000 Gentiles to create a Faux Reason for their takeover of the oil-bearing lands of the Mid-East.


i think the 'knocks on the door' will occur after a significant revolt where the government doesn't know who did it.

e.g. if a 100 Chris Dorner's teamed together and sniper-ized a 1000 rogue cops, i.e. a substantial blow against the US police state.

then the government might not bother with knocking and just do round-ups of people who MIGHT have done it.

that's what some of those camps are for.

[Sparky]

I think we're looking at more of a three-way war, rather than just a war between a tyrannic government and it's people. I think the real "ground war" will be between the "haves" and the "have nots", once the government runs out of resources to feed and comfort the growing dependent class. So before the government comes knocking on your door, it will be the hungry guy from down the street trying to break into your door. This will be the civil war that will have no geographic boundaries. Once this is established, the government will have an excuse to step in and take over just about everything. That will be the third leg of the war.

[Twisted Titan]

You will have a full scale insurrection if something like that will take place.

At that point in time anybody who is getting rounded up can forget about a fair trial and the odds very high you wont be seen by loved ones again.

So you have nothing left to lose

May as well rock out full bore


And the media was barely able to cover up the corruption on the Chris Dorner case their is no way on planet earth they can silence 100 plus stories.

If police chiefs are holding telecasts in underground bunkers for fear of their lives what do you think the average flat foot is going to do to cover his own ass?

They are burning the midnite oil as we speak trying to find some way to screen for the next Dorner in their ranks

[gunDriller]

They are burning the midnite oil as we speak trying to find some way to screen for the next Dorner in their ranks


i bet they're eye-balling Oath-keepers members & ocifers that have a history of 'bad' reviews related to crossing the blue line - speaking out about rogue cops like Dorner did.

[Ponce]

Even my Micky Mouse of a one mule town is getting into the act, today I was invited to be the main machinest and inspector in the production of new firearms in our new factory, I had to tell them "NO" because I am 100% retired and dind't want to pa yany more taxes..............salary at $2,000 a week to start.... more money would not buy more than what I already have.

v

[willie pete]

the walmartian in the neighborhood here is still virtually completely out, and it's been that way for probably a month now, I don't think they're even ordering it

[Tumbleweed]

I've posted this link and article I believe somewhere else on this forum but it's a good one I think and does give some insight into why all the ammo is getting sucked up so I'll post it again.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038970_gun_control_backfired_America.html

In the aftermath of the tragic Sandy Hook shooting, the gun grabbers across America unleashed a full court press to try to wholly disarm American citizens. With the help of the incessantly anti-gun mainstream media, people like Biden, Bloomberg, Cuomo, Feinstein and Obama managed to stir up a frenzy of fabricated fear that promised all our children would be violently gunned down if we didn't immediately agree to turn in all our guns and ammo magazines.

The push for gun control, however, has spectacularly backfired. In reality, it has hardened the positions of gun rights advocates while massively increasing the number of AR-15s and other firearms sold across the country.

The backfire is far worse than the gun grabbers could have possibly imagined when they launched their efforts on the graves of the dead Sandy Hook children. Here's my analysis of what has factually happened on the gun control front since Sandy Hook.

Analysis of ways in which the gun grab backfired• Instead of reducing sales of AR-15s and other firearms in America, the gun grab dramatically increased sales of nearly all firearms beyond any previous record. In essence, the American people bought nearly every gun available anywhere in the country, leaving gun store shelves empty. The upshot of all this? 10+ million new firearms in the hands of citizens and a one-year backlog of gun orders with manufacturers.

• Instead of shrinking the influence of the NRA (http://www.nra.org/), the gun grab vastly expanded NRA membership. More than 300,000 new members have been added to the NRA's roster in just the last few months, and the association has become more steeled in its position than ever before. The NRA has shifted even more dramatically against gun restrictions than ever before, even reversing itself on the issue of "gun free school zones" after learning that such zones don't work. Gun Owners of America (http://www.gunowners.org/) has also seen its membership numbers soar.

• The backlash against Obama, Biden, Piers Morgan and others has been so powerful and persistent that Obama had to stage a photo op of himself shooting a shotgun in order to create the impression that he was "pro gun." Similarly, anti-gun CNN host Piers Morgan has now broadcast a video of himself shooting an AR-15 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUTRbMOb_4Y) in Katy, Texas, while softening his position and saying he was never against the Second Amendment in the first place. (Yeah, right...)

How big of a deal is all this? It's huge! Imagine Piers Morgan picking up an AR-15 the day after the Sandy Hook shooting. Never would have happened, right? Or imagine Obama allowing himself to be photographed shooting a shotgun. These images would have been unimaginable mere weeks ago, but the gun grab push has backfired so completely that even the Second Amendment's most outspoken critics are practically lining up to be photographed or filmed shooting guns.

• Instead of silencing all the gun advocates and owners across the nation, the effort has actually caused people to break their silence on the issue and go vocal with their true beliefs on the topic. I'm a perfect example of this: before Sandy Hook, I hardly ever mentioned firearms. After Sandy Hook, I've been one of the most outspoken voices of gun rights and the Second Amendment, and I've actually found that instead of losing an audience, I've gained a huge number of new subscribers who agree with me on this issue. Check the Alexa stats; Natural News is steadily gaining in web traffic even as we cover this issue.

Other people have done much the same thing. My friend Daniel Vitalis, best known for longevity supplements and preparedness know-how, has even gone public with his own pro-gun column (http://www.danielvitalis.com/2013/01/on-gun-control/), and the feedback from his health-oriented audience has been mostly positive.

• The emotionally-loaded "Demand A Plan" Hollywood video, featuring dozens of top stars trying to convince us we need to disarm ourselves, was very quickly turned into a laughing stock due to the release of far more informative video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxRlpRcorEU) showing most of those stars using guns to commit bloody murder on the big screen. The hypocrisy was inescapable: Hollywood people want to claim they are against guns, but much of their income is based on movies that feature horrific scenes of violent shootings.

• While the gun grabbers wanted sheriffs and cops to jump on board the gun disarmament bandwagon, what actually happened is that sheriffs began speaking out AGAINST gun control (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_XWRjfzTe0) and encouraging their local constituents to arm themselves. Sheriffs across the country -- in huge numbers -- publicly proclaimed they would not allow federal agents to enforce gun restrictions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzZzVkLqSjo) in their counties.

• While gun grabbers wanted states to fall in line and surrender to federal authority on the issue of gun control, what actually happened is that the Firearms Protection Act (http://www.naturalnews.com/038693_Firearms_Protection_Act_Texas_gun_control.h tml) began to be introduced in state legislatures such as Wyoming and Texas. This act, which is now being considered in more than a dozen other states, would make it a felony crime for anyone to enforce new federal gun restrictions in their states.

• While gun grabbers hoped the U.S. military would agree to fire upon American citizens who refused to turn in their guns, what really happened is that huge numbers of active duty soldiers announced they would never participate in military action against their own countrymen. In fact, inside the military there is rising talk of shooting commanding officers in the head if they order troops to fire on American citizens over gun rights issues.

• While the gun grabbers hoped to demonize gun owners and "shame" them into somehow feeling guilty about Sandy Hook, what actually happened is that gun owners found new courage and American pride, and they have loudly voiced their intention to wage a war of resistance against any government that attempts to take their guns.

• In New York state, where Mayor Cuomo managed to quickly shove through an illegal, unconstitutional gun control law, there is now open talk of armed resistance against the state government (http://www.naturalnews.com/038843_New_York_gun_owners_civil_disobedience.html ). Elsewhere, there is even talk that U.S. Senators who vote for gun control may see their own staffers and families targeted for assassination. As Stewart Rhodes said on InfoWars Nightly News on December 31st, 2012:

"They will be targeted. I think that if they pass this bill, legislators who vote for it will be assassinated... they're going to be military targets, too, and they're going to be killed. They think they're immune, but they're not. They cannot walk around with enough security to keep from being shot by a sniper." - Stewart Rhodes, OathKeepers.org

(For the record, Stewart Rhodes is not calling for this action. He is merely stating the obvious: that this is likely to take place if gun confiscation comes up for a vote in the U.S. Senate.)

It's not just Stewart Rhodes saying this, either. Robbie Cooper from UrbanUndergrounds.com (http://urbangrounds.com/2013/01/what-would-happen-if-the-government-banned-firearms-and-tried-to-confiscate-our-guns/print/) says much the same thing:

"We all quickly agreed a violent revolution and rebellion would occur almost immediately [following a federal gun ban]. Most, if not all, members of Congress who voted for the ban / confiscation would be assassinated. And the very first prey that would find themselves in the scopes of the rebels would be the members of Congress who passed this ban and the members of the media who have been their willing mouthpieces and agents of propaganda."

Bob Owens from Bob-Owens.com (http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/12/what-youll-see-in-the-rebellion/comment-page-1/) paints a similar picture:

"The 535 members of the House and Senate in both parties that allowed such a law to pass would largely be on their own; the Secret Service is too small to protect all of them and their families, the Capitol Police too unskilled, and competent private security not particularly interested in working against their own best interests at any price. The elites will be steadily whittled down, and if they cannot be reached directly, the targets will become their staffers, spouses, children, and grandchildren. Grandstanding media figures loyal to the regime would die in droves, executed as enemies of the Republic."

For the record once again, these people are not calling for such actions, they are merely predicting what is likely to take place. A government that attempts to disarm the citizenry at gunpoint is essentially declaring war on the People and should expect to be treated like an occupying enemy of America. On top of that, the real power in all this is that there is no central leader of any such rebellion. These actions would organically rise out of the population in the form of independent, self-initiated teams of armed defenders who are willing to risk their lives to save America from tyranny.

Veteran firearms instructor Paul Howe even penned a popular piece called 2nd Amendment and the Kool-Aid Drinkers (http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/) in which he explains one popular solution for handling those who attempt to engage in gun confiscation:

Should firearm confiscation begin, solutions are simple. If they cannot live in a community, they cannot work in a community. If their house goes away while they are at work confiscating guns, so be it. Allow them to leave with their family and what possessions they can pack in their car.

Howe also explains, in other interviews, that gun confiscation teams -- "tac teams" -- should expect to be attacked without warning and take huge casualties, reducing the effectiveness of those teams and effectively ending gun confiscation activities.

Thank you, Obama, Biden, Cuomo and FeinsteinIn all, the gun grabbers in America have become the single most effective gun rights recruitment team in U.S. history.

They have awakened people to the truth about the need for a Second Amendment and the ever-present risk of tyrannical government trying to dominate a free people. They have encouraged the sale of 10+ million firearms which are now held in the hands of private citizens. They have swelled the ranks of the NRA and Gun Owners of America. They have proven all the so-called "conspiracy theorists" right about claims that the government is coming for our guns.

The post-Sandy Hook actions of the gun grabbers have actually set back the gun control agenda by at least a decade. Americans are on high alert now, and they realize there is more than enough critical mass of resistance to stand up against any gun registration or confiscation scheme that might be attempted by an arrogant, unconstitutional and lawless government.

Obama has effectively declared himself KingRemember, the Obama administration openly claims the right to order the execution of American citizens (http://www.naturalnews.com/038969_drone_strikes_President_rule_of_law.html) without trial, without evidence and without any due process. A President who would justify those actions could justify anything, including nationwide gun confiscation, forced FEMA camp round-ups of citizens, military troops on the streets of U.S. cities and so on. Obama believes there is NO LIMIT to his power, and as a result he is, by definition, a totalitarianistic tyrant.

But Obama does not have the loyalty of the military, nor the sheriffs, nor most police departments. He is absolutely hated by gun owners and political conservatives. His circle of followers is weak and shrinking by the day. His political supporters are largely inner city welfare recipients who, as history has shown, matter little in the equation of human history.

Liberty is winning in America, and it will continue to win as long as you remain ever vigilant, knowing that the federal government is constantly scheming and conspiring to dream up ways to blame gun owners for tragic events and thereby invoke a false justification for disarming the citizens and creating a "monopoly of violence" of government.

Warning: How the gun grabbers could still winDo not allow the victory of the moment to cloud your vision for the future, however. The gun grabbers are, right now, scheming up new ways to blame gun owners and pass gun confiscation in America.

Operation Fast and Furious (http://www.naturalnews.com/Fast_and_Furious.html), for example, was designed from the very start (and at the highest levels) to cause runaway gun violence near the U.S. - Mexico border, providing an excuse to try to ban guns everywhere across America. It failed because they got caught, but it shows that if they will stage Fast and Furious, they will stage anything.

You can bet your bottom dollar that high-level operatives inside the Obama administration are right now plotting another mass murder event to be blamed on gun owners. These are called "false flag" attacks, and the most likely scenarios that may be carried out include:

• A staged mass shooting at an airport security checkpoint where TSA officers are gunned down. The federal response will be to demand that the TSA be armed, and this is how Obama will create his "domestic security force" much like Hitler's brownshirts.

• Another bombing of a federal building or local police station. Expect the patsy to be a drugged-up military veteran who owns lots of guns and whose computer just happens to have a history of visiting websites like InfoWars.com. Expect Alex Jones to be blamed for everything.

• A repeat of Sandy Hook with lots and lots of dead children. Schools still remain "gun free zones" which means they are wide-open shooting galleries for psychos who don't want anyone to shoot back. The more children die, the more political power the gun grabbers can squeeze out of the tragedy while somehow blaming the NRA.

• A dirty bomb released in a major U.S. city and blamed on "patriots" or some anti-government group. Of course, as we already know, a group within the FBI masterminds many of these domestic terror plots (http://www.naturalnews.com/035849_domestic_terror_plots_FBI.html) -- this is openly admitted by the FBI and was even published in the New York Times, believe it or not.

• A mass shooting at a sports stadium in order to terrorize sports crowds. This is why it's smart to avoid sports crowds for the foreseeable future.

In all these theoretical events, you can expect high-capacity magazines, AR-15 rifles and possibly even silencers (suppressors) to be planted on the scene in order to provide justification for those items to be banned. Whatever the government wants to take away from the citizens, it simply arranges to have them dropped off at the next staged mass murder scene. Want an example? There was no AR-15 rifle used in the Sandy Hook shooting (http://www.naturalnews.com/038664_Sandy_Hook_security_video_footage.html). That narrative is a total hoax.

Five years ago, all this would have sounded like a kooky conspiracy theory. Today, gun owners all across America have come to realize this is fact. The government really does stage mass killings in order to forward its political agenda. They really are coming after your guns. And yes, they really did stage Fast and Furious for the purpose of causing enough mass death near the border to justify new gun control laws.

Thank you, Obama and Feinstein, for showing your cards and proving us right. America is now more awake, more vigilant and far better armed than before Sandy Hook. You have managed to achieve precisely the opposite of what you had hoped, and the spirit of liberty in America is stronger than ever.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038970_gun_control_backfired_America.html#ixzz2LJg 86jCI

[Twisted Titan]

How big of a deal is all this? It's huge! Imagine Piers Morgan picking up an AR-15 the day after the Sandy Hook shooting. Never would have happened, right? Or imagine Obama allowing himself to be photographed shooting a shotgun. These images would have been unimaginable mere weeks ago





I gotta admit I never thought about it like that .

[zap]

Prolly should have stocked up way back then?????

[Twisted Titan]

You cant do everything at once

and we all have several areas where we slack off.

just part of the game.



My foolish advice: While the wee one is in school get yourself down to the range ASAP and rent several pistols and rifles and shoties. find out which one you feel comfortable ( THAT IS KEY) and then make it your business to get them post haste.


But if you feel like the hammer is going to fall in your state like the news 2-3 weeks i would grab the following


Pistol : Glock 26 it the smallest of the Glock family and is the easiest to control in small hands and the most conceable. The reliabilty redundancy and contruction of Glock is second to none.

Shotgun: Remington 870 pump action very realiable firearm and the racking sound on a pump action is a universal laugauge understood by all

Rifle: I would go with the any AK-47 that fires the 7.62x39 rd AK's have a very simple design, easy to break down and were ment to abused can shoot corrosive ammo and still perform unlike other rifles waaaay more expensive rife reliabilty issues unless pristine matinence.


Im just giving a quicklist. by no means am I the authority but if worst came to worse you cant go wrong with those three