Bitcoin ATM

[madfranks]

Such a cool idea!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-this-atm-takes-dollars-and-funds-your-account/

New Hampshire entrepreneurs have created a dollar-converting anonymous Bitcoin ATM, which they hope to sell to bars, restaurants, and other retail locations nationwide.

http://asset0.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2013/02/23/bitcoin.atm_610x374.jpg

NASHUA, N.H. -- Zach Harvey has an ambitious plan to accelerate adoption of the Internet's favorite alternative currency: installing in thousands of bars, restaurants, and grocery stores ATMs that will let you buy Bitcoins anonymously.

It's the opposite of a traditional automated teller that dispenses currency. Instead, these Bitcoin ATMs will accept dollar bills -- using the same validation mechanism as vending machines -- and instantly convert the amount to Bitcoins and deposit the result in your account.

"It's even easier than just using a regular ATM," says Harvey, 33, who demonstrated the device to CNET this weekend at the Free State Project's annual Liberty Forum. "You could probably do it in about five seconds. The thing that would take the longest would be the bill validator taking in the dollar."

Harvey and Matt Whitlock are partners in a New Hampshire-based venture, Lamassu Bitcoin Advisors, that's hoping to commercialize the ATM by selling to retail businesses, especially ones that also want to accept the decentralized alternative currency from customers.

"If we made these machines somewhere around $1,000 to $1,500 each, depending on the commission, they could be able to buy this and make it back within a reasonable period of time," Harvey says.

Bitcoin has gradually increased in popularity since it appeared in 2009, with WordPress saying last fall that it would accept it as a payment method, and a handful of retail businesses, including Cups and Cakes Bakery in San Francisco, following suit. The exchange rate now hovers around US$30 a coin, and about $300 million is in circulation.

The technology represents an easy way to transfer funds across national borders, a process that currently can be slow and cumbersome with wire transfers. Bitcoin is less risky for online sellers than accepting credit cards, which can be disputed by customers. While not truly anonymous, it can be relatively private -- and is far more difficult for the U.S. or other governments to trace.

Unlike modern currency, which can be brought into existence at the whim of politicians or a central bank, leading to each note being devalued, the number of Bitcoins is governed by predictable mathematical algorithms. That's made Bitcoin popular among libertarians and other activists skeptical of the Federal Reserve; the Free State Project accepts payment for its summer festival in Bitcoins, for instance. (The U.S. dollar has lost 96 percent of its value over the last century because of cumulative year-over-year inflation, according to federal government data.)

MORE AT LINK...

[Shami-Amourae]

How many days till they are found dead with a "suicide note"?

[Twisted Titan]

Not Zach Harvey

He is one of the chosen

[Shami-Amourae]

Aaron Swartz was Jewish. They killed him.

[EE_]

Let no money touch a Goy's hands that hasn't passed through a Jew's hand first

[Neuro]

I wonder if the bit coin will stay in their wallet until the goy decides to spend it? Give a receipt for a bit coin, which is not a bit coin. Fractional Reserve bit coining if you like...

[Hitch]

These ATM's aren't just printing bitcoins, are they? I mean, "digitally conjuring them up". I don't see why bitcoin can't be corrupted and this looks like a head start. Where do the bitcoins come from in the ATM's?

Sorry, lot's of questions. I don't think I'll ever wrap my head around the whole bitcoin idea. Gold and silver, I understand, bitcoin I don't.

[joboo]

Verrry interesting. Sh-t just got serious.

[osoab]

Not Zach Harvey

He is one of the chosen


Aaron Swartz was Jewish. They killed him.

Never trust a man with two first names...

[Ares]

These ATM's aren't just printing bitcoins, are they? I mean, "digitally conjuring them up". I don't see why bitcoin can't be corrupted and this looks like a head start. Where do the bitcoins come from in the ATM's?

Sorry, lot's of questions. I don't think I'll ever wrap my head around the whole bitcoin idea. Gold and silver, I understand, bitcoin I don't.

They'll most likely buy them on an exchange or mine the coins themselves (the ATM organization). You can't "conjure" bitcoins into existence as the algorithm that controls the issuance of the coin doesn't allow for counterfeiting. Every bitcoin that ever existed has been mined into existence by computers mining.

ASIC miners should be coming on-line here in the next month or 2 which will most likely temporarily drop the price of Bitcoins for a little while.

[Hitch]

Every bitcoin that ever existed has been mined into existence by computers mining.

This sounds like printing to me. Printed..mined, same difference. Every FRN has been printed into existence.

Put a fancy label on it and sell it, that's what .gov and the FED reserve does.

Bitcoin exists because people have confidence in it. Same as FRN's. I'll stick to silver and gold. You can't just make them out of thin air.

[Sparky]

They'll most likely buy them on an exchange or mine the coins themselves (the ATM organization). You can't "conjure" bitcoins into existence as the algorithm that controls the issuance of the coin doesn't allow for counterfeiting. Every bitcoin that ever existed has been mined into existence by computers mining.

ASIC miners should be coming on-line here in the next month or 2 which will most likely temporarily drop the price of Bitcoins for a little while.

We need a much simpler explanation. How are the digital coins mined?

[Hitch]

We need a much simpler explanation. How are the digital coins mined?

I will answer this. The digital federal reserve (bitcoin.gov) buys bonds from the ATM organization. Since the digital federal reserve does not have the bitcoin, it prints it (excuse me...mines it). The ATM organization then feeds these coins to the public.

This sounds great. Sign me up.

[vacuum]

The future just got a little brighter.

[Ares]

We need a much simpler explanation. How are the digital coins mined?

This has a much better explanation than what I could give. Hope it helps answers some questions. If you need some additional clarification let me know.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining

[Ares]

This sounds like printing to me. Printed..mined, same difference. Every FRN has been printed into existence.

Put a fancy label on it and sell it, that's what .gov and the FED reserve does.

Bitcoin exists because people have confidence in it. Same as FRN's. I'll stick to silver and gold. You can't just make them out of thin air.

Not even close. You're basically brute force hacking SHA-256 hashing algorithms. You "crack" a block you get rewarded a certain amount of bit coins. It's EXTREMELY processor intensive and isn't even remotely easy to accomplish. Unlike the Federal Reserve there is a limit to how many coins can ever be mined into existence. 21 million coins. No more than that will ever be allowed.

I've purchased an ASIC miner to which I'm hoping arrives here soon to start mining some coins. My goal is to convert them into silver and or gold depending on how many I can mine. Appears to get more crowded by the day.

[madfranks]

Many here are skeptical about bitcoins and I understand that, but seriously, bitcoins deserve our support if for no other reason that they are a currency that is completely incorruptible to TPTB. They cannot short bitcoins with paper promises to lower the price, they cannot control the issuance and value thereof, this is a free market money that is totally outside their control! The US govt cannot stop it! If the dollar collapsed tomorrow, you could still use bitcoins as money.

[madfranks]

I've purchased an ASIC miner to which I'm hoping arrives here soon to start mining some coins. My goal is to convert them into silver and or gold depending on how many I can mine. Appears to get more crowded by the day.

What kind did you order? I'm looking at this one: http://products.butterflylabs.com/featured-products/60gh-bitcoin-miner.html

[EE_]

Many here are skeptical about bitcoins and I understand that, but seriously, bitcoins deserve our support if for no other reason that they are a currency that is completely incorruptible to TPTB. They cannot short bitcoins with paper promises to lower the price, they cannot control the issuance and value thereof, this is a free market money that is totally outside their control! The US govt cannot stop it! If the dollar collapsed tomorrow, you could still use bitcoins as money.

And if the government disrupts, or shuts down the internet?...or sends out a super virus that destroys your computer when you log on to bitcoin?

[Hitch]

What kind did you order? I'm looking at this one: http://products.butterflylabs.com/featured-products/60gh-bitcoin-miner.html

So you tech guys can just mine bitcoins then? Is that how it works? Poof! I got a bitcoin, hurrah.

These ATM's claim to accept dollars for bitcoins. They do not claim to give dollars back, for cashing in bitcoins.

This seems like a scam. A normal ATM, you can deposit dollars, and withdrawal dollars. Here, you can deposit dollars into bitcoins, but not withdrawal anything.

[Ares]

Many here are skeptical about bitcoins and I understand that, but seriously, bitcoins deserve our support if for no other reason that they are a currency that is completely incorruptible to TPTB. They cannot short bitcoins with paper promises to lower the price, they cannot control the issuance and value thereof, this is a free market money that is totally outside their control! The US govt cannot stop it! If the dollar collapsed tomorrow, you could still use bitcoins as money.

It took me a while to see that as well. Back in 2009 I wrote off bitcoins as nothing more than a digital currency that was a fad. I was wrong, when you have the European Central Bank (http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/01/31/european-central-bank-concern-for-bitcoin-gets-attention-again/) writing that they are concerned about that currency then you know Bitcoin is on the right track.

[Ares]

What kind did you order? I'm looking at this one: http://products.butterflylabs.com/featured-products/60gh-bitcoin-miner.html

Yep that's exactly what I ordered, back in December. :)

[madfranks]

And if the government disrupts, or shuts down the internet?...or sends out a super virus that destroys your computer when you log on to bitcoin?

The US govt does not have the resources to shut down the World Wide Web. They may try to kill individual computers, but then again they may try to confiscate gold and silver again too. Either attempt would be fruitless IMO.

[Ares]

And if the government disrupts, or shuts down the internet?...or sends out a super virus that destroys your computer when you log on to bitcoin?

Why you always backup your bitcoin wallet AND encrypt it. Think of that is your client into the bitcoin P2P network. It has all transactions you have done as well as how many coins you own. That is YOUR record for the p2p network. I have mine backed up in a number of different locations including physical media (burned to a CD).

[Ares]

So you tech guys can just mine bitcoins then? Is that how it works? Poof! I got a bitcoin, hurrah.

These ATM's claim to accept dollars for bitcoins. They do not claim to give dollars back, for cashing in bitcoins.

This seems like a scam. A normal ATM, you can deposit dollars, and withdrawal dollars. Here, you can deposit dollars into bitcoins, but not withdrawal anything.

My GUESS on how this ATM functions is like an exchange. They charge you 1% transaction fee. Say right now, you put in 30 FRN's for 1 bitcoin. It links up with the exchange and purchases a bitcoin for you to deposit in your bitcoin wallet which you can have on your phone and you'll see instantly in your wallet after you finish the transaction.

[EE_]

Forget piracy, U.S. government is going after Bitcoin

Not satisfied with eliminating digital piracy from the world, two U.S. senators want to crack down on Bitcoin, an open-source digital currency.

Senators Charles Schumer and Joe Manchin are pressing officials to take action against Bitcoin, which Gawker recently claimed is being used on underground black markets to purchase illegal drugs. The senators expressed their concerns in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder and Drug Enforcement Administration chief Michele Leonhart, Reuters reports.

Unlike other currencies, Bitcoin uses a peer-to-peer technology to manage transactions and validate payments. Since no bank is involved, purchases don’t leave a paper trail for law enforcement agencies to track criminal activity.

“The only method of payment for these illegal purchases is an untraceable peer-to-peer currency known as Bitcoins. After purchasing Bitcoins through an exchange, a user can create an account on Silk Road and start purchasing illegal drugs from individuals around the world and have them delivered to their homes within days,” the senators wrote.

The senators neglected to mention the much larger negative implications of Bitcoin usage in the letter. If the currency became popular enough to compete with a national currency, it could have the power to undermine that government’s authority far beyond regulating drugs — something China realized and outlawed in 2009.

However, finding black markets like Silk Road that promote the use of Bitcoin won’t be easy. The only lead investigators have is tracking transaction patterns that may suggest the exchange of real money for Bitcoin, according to the report.

According to comments posted on a Bitcoin public forum, many Bitcoin supporters doubt any authoritative body could truly eliminate the currency.

However, the U.S. government successfully shut down other online cash alternatives, such as E-Gold, when it discovered that they were being used in illegal trade, such as the sale of stolen credit card numbers. Some former customers of that cash alternative are still waiting to get their money out of their E-Gold accounts, more than two years after the service suspended trading activity.


Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/08/government-crackdown-on-bitcoin/#1DTdlbCYfbsAWM2E.99

[Sparky]

This has a much better explanation than what I could give. Hope it helps answers some questions. If you need some additional clarification let me know.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining

That didn't really help. It sounds like the miner is looking for some type of digital sequence. But in what? What's the "ore" that is being mined?

[Ares]

Forget piracy, U.S. government is going after Bitcoin

Not satisfied with eliminating digital piracy from the world, two U.S. senators want to crack down on Bitcoin, an open-source digital currency.

Senators Charles Schumer and Joe Manchin are pressing officials to take action against Bitcoin, which Gawker recently claimed is being used on underground black markets to purchase illegal drugs. The senators expressed their concerns in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder and Drug Enforcement Administration chief Michele Leonhart, Reuters reports.

Unlike other currencies, Bitcoin uses a peer-to-peer technology to manage transactions and validate payments. Since no bank is involved, purchases don’t leave a paper trail for law enforcement agencies to track criminal activity.

“The only method of payment for these illegal purchases is an untraceable peer-to-peer currency known as Bitcoins. After purchasing Bitcoins through an exchange, a user can create an account on Silk Road and start purchasing illegal drugs from individuals around the world and have them delivered to their homes within days,” the senators wrote.

The senators neglected to mention the much larger negative implications of Bitcoin usage in the letter. If the currency became popular enough to compete with a national currency, it could have the power to undermine that government’s authority far beyond regulating drugs — something China realized and outlawed in 2009.

However, finding black markets like Silk Road that promote the use of Bitcoin won’t be easy. The only lead investigators have is tracking transaction patterns that may suggest the exchange of real money for Bitcoin, according to the report.

According to comments posted on a Bitcoin public forum, many Bitcoin supporters doubt any authoritative body could truly eliminate the currency.

However, the U.S. government successfully shut down other online cash alternatives, such as E-Gold, when it discovered that they were being used in illegal trade, such as the sale of stolen credit card numbers. Some former customers of that cash alternative are still waiting to get their money out of their E-Gold accounts, more than two years after the service suspended trading activity.


Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/08/government-crackdown-on-bitcoin/#1DTdlbCYfbsAWM2E.99

Yep Chucky was shown the Silk Road a while back. Tried to get the DEA to shut it down. Since it's a Tor hidden service (untraceable) DEA responded to chuck "We can't locate the server, who owns it, or how to go about finding it". So Chuck is going to go after the medium of exchange in order to shut it down. Can't have the proles purchasing drugs on the black market unable to be traced now can we?

[Hitch]

What's the "ore" that is being mined?

The ore is backed by the full faith and credit of the bitcoin reserve.

[Ares]

That didn't really help. It sounds like the miner is looking for some type of digital sequence. But in what? What's the "ore" that is being mined?

This was posted here: To solve the block, a value must be solved through mathematic computation of the block. I’m not a math guy, so I couldn’t functionally explain this part, except that there are more intelligent folks which set this up. So, we use our processor power to search for the solution. As the complexity of the solution has risen to adjust the fixed rate of BitCoin dispersal, a CPU is no longer sufficient to solve a block in a reasonable amount of time. At the time of this writing, the current difficulty factor is 567385. So, if your CPU could perform at a rate of 4,000,000 hashes per second, it would take you over 19 years to solve a block, not factoring in the eventual rise of the difficulty. This, we use accelerated parallel processing, which involves harnessing the computational power of a graphics processing unit, or GPU (Why?). It’s optimal to hash on AMD cards, which is explained here. So, if I use my computer to generate BitCoins (by further supporting the BitCoin economy by verifying transactions), I am Mining BitCoins.

http://foreverrising.wordpress.com/2011/06/15/what-is-bitcoin-and-what-is-bitcoin-mining/

[Santa]

Just a thought...It's another clever way to get people to voluntarily convert their cold hard cash(you know, that green stuff you can hide in a matress) into digital currency held by a bank. If a bank is holding your bitcoin account, then every transaction is recorded in triplicate, isn't it?

It's funny. The temptation for bitcoins is to have an anonymous online transaction, but this ATM method guarantees the central banks will be handling every virtual digital transaction.

No wonder Zach Harvey has such a shit eating grin on his face. David Rothschild is probably under the table blowing him out of gratitude for such an invention. Oy Vey!

You watch. This will spread like wildfire and cash transactions will soon become a useless relic, much the same as gold and silver coins have become.

[Ares]

Just a thought...It's another clever way to get people to voluntarily convert their cold hard cash(you know, that green stuff you can hide in a matress) into digital currency held by a bank. If a bank is holding your bitcoin account, then every transaction is recorded in triplicate, isn't it?

It's funny. The temptation for bitcoins is to have an anonymous online transaction, but this ATM method guarantees the central banks will be handling every virtual digital transaction.

No wonder Zach Harvey has such a shit eating grin on his face. David Rothschild is probably under the table blowing him out of gratitude for such an invention. Oy Vey!

You watch. This will spread like wildfire and cash transactions will soon become a useless relic, much the same as gold and silver coins have become.

There is no bank for bitcoins. The bank or holder is you, or the person / exchange you are purchasing the coin from. Once it's purchased it will automatically go into your bitcoin wallet. There is no ID required. You're using cold hard (and dieing) cash, ATM converts it to bitcoin. So where's the bank?

[Sparky]

This was posted here: To solve the block, a value must be solved through mathematic computation of the block. I’m not a math guy, so I couldn’t functionally explain this part, except that there are more intelligent folks which set this up. So, we use our processor power to search for the solution. As the complexity of the solution has risen to adjust the fixed rate of BitCoin dispersal, a CPU is no longer sufficient to solve a block in a reasonable amount of time. At the time of this writing, the current difficulty factor is 567385. So, if your CPU could perform at a rate of 4,000,000 hashes per second, it would take you over 19 years to solve a block, not factoring in the eventual rise of the difficulty. This, we use accelerated parallel processing, which involves harnessing the computational power of a graphics processing unit, or GPU (Why?). It’s optimal to hash on AMD cards, which is explained here. So, if I use my computer to generate BitCoins (by further supporting the BitCoin economy by verifying transactions), I am Mining BitCoins.

http://foreverrising.wordpress.com/2011/06/15/what-is-bitcoin-and-what-is-bitcoin-mining/

I'm a math guy, but I don't get it. What is the block? What value is being mined? Who establishes this?

[Hitch]

So, if I use my computer to generate BitCoins (by further supporting the BitCoin economy by verifying transactions), I am Mining BitCoins.

You are basically printing money with your fancy computer equipment. It's all great to be part of a ponzi scheme, until it collapses.

I suggest you cash out your bitcoins before the collapse, and also perhaps visit church and pray for the folks who get hurt in this scheme.

[Ares]

I'm a math guy, but I don't get it. What is the block? What value is being mined? Who establishes this?

Here is the original untouched bitcoin paper that goes into every detail of what is a bitcoin. The mining and transaction process. Definitely has a lot of math in it. :)

http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

[Ares]

You are basically printing money with your fancy computer equipment. It's all great to be part of a ponzi scheme, until it collapses.

I suggest you cash out your bitcoins before the collapse, and also perhaps visit church and pray for the folks who get hurt in this scheme.

LOL you don't have a clue what you are talking about. How is it endlessly printing with a limited supply of 21 million coins? The federal reserve did that much the first year it was created. Yet you trust that?

Ponzi scheme? Not even close. Whose the central authority or figure profiting from the transaction and usage of bitcoin then?

[Sparky]

It seems like the whole process is designed to emulate mining of physical gold, i.e. a fixed amount of a natural resource to mine, whose actual usefulness determines only a small component of its exchange value, with diminishing yield the more that the product is extracted.

What it's missing from the scarce resource is a natural appeal. Gold is naturally appealing. It looks good, and feels good to hold. What is the natural desirability of a bitcoin? In some sense, it has a characteristic of fiat money, because it's desirability is only in its exchange value, which is entirely based in faith. If gold had no exchange value, it would still be desirable.

[Hitch]

LOL you don't have a clue what you are talking about. How is it endlessly printing with a limited supply of 21 million coins? The federal reserve did that much the first year it was created. Yet you trust that?

Ponzi scheme? Not even close. Whose the central authority or figure profiting from the transaction and usage of bitcoin then?

Ares, your computer equipment generates bitcoins, correct? If it generates bitcoins, either those bitcoins are printed from thin air, or they are stolen from someone else.

There is no way around that. It's concrete. This is why we like gold and silver.

[EE_]

Here is the original untouched bitcoin paper that goes into every detail of what is a bitcoin. The mining and transaction process. Definitely has a lot of math in it. :)

http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Can you tell me how the transaction process is started by computer...do you type in a web address to start?


The system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any
cooperating group of attacker nodes.

[Ares]

It seems like the whole process is designed to emulate mining of physical gold, i.e. a fixed amount of a natural resource to mine, whose actual usefulness determines only a small component of its exchange value, with diminishing yield the more that the product is extracted.

What it's missing from the scarce resource is a natural appeal. Gold is naturally appealing. It looks good, and feels good to hold. What is the natural desirability of a bitcoin? In some sense, it has a characteristic of fiat money, because it's desirability is only in its exchange value, which is entirely based in faith. If gold had no exchange value, it would still be desirable.

Yes, exactly on it emulating mining gold with a diminishing (more difficult to mine the more of it you do). Why I'm hoping to convert the bitcoins I mine with my new hardware into gold / silver. I like holding it, and has a 5,000+ year history of a store of value.

[vacuum]

What it's missing from the scarce resource is a natural appeal. Gold is naturally appealing. It looks good, and feels good to hold. What is the natural desirability of a bitcoin? In some sense, it has a characteristic of fiat money, because it's desirability is only in its exchange value, which is entirely based in faith. If gold had no exchange value, it would still be desirable.
For me, the intrinsic value is that I could theoretically buy $1M in bitcoins, memorize a password, and walk across any border or tax zone in the world and my money can never be confiscated, frozen, or tracked.

[EE_]

For me, the intrinsic value is that I could theoretically buy $1M in bitcoins, memorize a password, and walk across any border or tax zone in the world and my money can never be confiscated, frozen, or tracked.

Oh, we can't have that, now can we?
The Gov

[Ares]

Ares, your computer equipment generates bitcoins, correct? If it generates bitcoins, either those bitcoins are printed from thin air, or they are stolen from someone else.

There is no way around that. It's concrete. This is why we like gold and silver.

Read the paper I replied to Sparky's post with. It goes into great detail. It's a reward for solving a block. It's not stealing, and it's not being "printed from thin air". Unless you consider a single processor mining for 25+ years at current difficulty printing a single coin from thin air. It's a lot of computational work to get a single coin.

[Ares]

Can you tell me how the transaction process is started by computer...do you type in a web address to start?

The transaction process starts by installing a bitcoin wallet. This is your client to the bitcoin p2p network. You can mine bitcoins, or purchase them on an open exchange. Once you purchase or mine a bitcoin it will appear in your wallet. You can purchase items with it, or hold on to it and wait for the exchange rate to go up and sell it for more than what you paid for it.

[Hitch]

Read the paper I replied to Sparky's post with. It goes into great detail. It's a reward for solving a block. It's not stealing, and it's not being "printed from thin air". Unless you consider a single processor mining for 25+ years at current difficulty printing a single coin from thin air. It's a lot of computational work to get a single coin.

That piece of equipment costs $1300 dollars. At $30, a bitcoin, you'd need to print at least 43 bitcoins to recoup the cost. If it takes this computer 25 years to print one bitcoin, that's 1075 years in the future it would take to pay for this equipment. That makes no sense, at all.

[vacuum]

That piece of equipment costs $1300 dollars. At $30, a bitcoin, you'd need to print at least 43 bitcoins to recoup the cost. If it takes this computer 25 years to print one bitcoin, that's 1075 years in the future it would take to pay for this equipment. That makes no sense, at all.
There is now dedicated hardware that's been made out of silicon for the sole purpose of mining bitcoins.

It's like saying that it will take you 25 years to move this pile of dirt with your pickup truck. But then someone invents a really big dump-truck with the sole purpose in life of moving dirt. Then it becomes cost effective for someone that owns a dump truck.

[Ares]

That piece of equipment costs $1300 dollars. At $30, a bitcoin, you'd need to print at least 43 bitcoins to recoup the cost. If it takes this computer 25 years to print one bitcoin, that's 1075 years in the future it would take to pay for this equipment. That makes no sense, at all.

lol sorry I meant a single CPU like say your average computer running at 4 million hashes a second. Now the machine you are talking about is called an ASIC miner (ASIC stands for Application Specific Integrated Circuit) Meaning it has no other computational purpose than to run through the bitcoin hash looking to complete blocks. Once a block is completed you get rewarded. But since so many people (CPU's GPU's (graphical processing units) are doing so many mega hashes of blocks the difficulty has increased to the point that if you took a single standard intel or AMD processor and attempted to mine a bitcoin it would take you about 25 years at current rate. These ASIC units at current difficulty will pay for themselves in 6 days. Yes just 6 days. 60 Giga hashes a second is astronomical in speed.

[Hitch]

It's like saying that it will take you 25 years to move this pile of dirt with your pickup truck. But then someone invents a really big dump-truck with the sole purpose in life of moving dirt. Then it becomes cost effective for someone that owns a dump truck.

A bigger printing press (currency). I get it. Maybe my wheel barrel full of bitcoins will buy me a loaf of bread in the future. This is the problem with bitcoin. Whom ever has the bigger dump truck, wins. Same problem with our current banking cartel as well. Same difference.

[vacuum]

A bigger printing press (currency). I get it. Maybe my wheel barrel full of bitcoins will buy me a loaf of bread in the future. This is the problem with bitcoin. Whom ever has the bigger dump truck, wins. Same problem with our current banking cartel as well. Same difference.
Notice that a dump truck is a mining tool....

Even though gold is $1800/ounce doesn't mean you can go out with a pick axe and get rich. You need tool like dump trucks, jack hammers, explosives, etc. It's an exact analogy with gold, not paper.

[madfranks]

The senators neglected to mention the much larger negative implications of Bitcoin usage in the letter. If the currency became popular enough to compete with a national currency, it could have the power to undermine that government’s authority.

Negative implications my ass. Does anyone on this forum think this is a bad idea?

[Ares]

Negative implications my ass. Does anyone on this forum think this is a bad idea?

Not me, that's my #2 reason why I support Bitcoins. #1 is that there isn't a central issuing authority. Meaning there is no interest attached to its generation into existence. It's border less, Open Source, and it pisses off central banks and governments alike.

It really is a free market currency. Yes it's digital, no you can't physically hold it. But it has it's roots in Austrian economics.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/11/03/ecb-roots-of-bitcoin-can-be-found-in-the-austrian-school-of-economics/

[madfranks]

It's happening whether you like it or not. The era of government controlled fiat money is ending, and there will be voluntary, free market replacements for the paper tickets being printed by the trillions today. Bitcoin is not controlled by anyone, and therefore simply cannot be manipulated to benefit any one person or persons at the expense of another.

[vacuum]

I was thinking that one bad thing is if you can control the internet then you can control the money if bitcoin is widely used.

But then I realized that if bitcoin was widely used, it would force the internet to be free forever because the pressure of people needing to do business would put a real quick end to companies trying to control the internet so they can sell more cable tv or stop piracy. When it's piracy vs finance you can bet finance will win.

In fact, a lot of that wasted money going into the banking system would be partially diverted into making sure the internet was fast and reliable everywhere in the world.

[Ares]

Since I've purchased a miner, what really concerns me as a miner is these bad boys.

http://products.butterflylabs.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/i/mini-rig-1_1_1.jpg

They can reach speeds of 1.5 trillion hashes a second which is insane for a hash rate. If I had a spare 30k just laying around I'd probably buy one. Just knowing that nothing will come close to that speed for the foreseeable future promising you a good return on investment for the long haul.

[Hitch]

Negative implications my ass. Does anyone on this forum think this is a bad idea?

I think it's a bad idea.

The fact that you need expensive 'mining' computer equipment to get ahead of normal folks, rules this out for me. I can't spent thousands of dollars for this equipment, nor do I have the knowledge to do so.

It's just replacing one set of evil bankers for another. I'll stick with gold and silver, that's honest, imo.

[vacuum]

I think it's a bad idea.

The fact that you need expensive 'mining' computer equipment to get ahead of normal folks, rules this out for me. I can't spent thousands of dollars for this equipment, nor do I have the knowledge to do so.

It's just replacing one set of evil bankers for another. I'll stick with gold and silver, that's honest, imo.

Mining is just a competitive business like any other. Miners are not necessarily bitcoin investors, and bitcoin investors and users are not necessarily miners.

For example, real gold mines don't store gold on site. They aren't investing in gold, what they do is sell it the instant they pull it out of the ground.

99% of people who use gold don't actually mine it, and probably 90% of people who use bitcoins don't mine them either.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

Spend all you want on mining bitcoins, the point is they're finite. Once they're all mined it's no different than a precious metal that can only be found above ground. This is why a bitcoin is close to parity with silver at the moment.

[madfranks]

I think it's a bad idea.

The fact that you need expensive 'mining' computer equipment to get ahead of normal folks, rules this out for me. I can't spent thousands of dollars for this equipment, nor do I have the knowledge to do so.

It's just replacing one set of evil bankers for another. I'll stick with gold and silver, that's honest, imo.

Well, you could go hit the mountains with a pie pan and try to pan for gold, or invest a couple grand in a small dredge or sluice box and increase your chances of finding more gold than the guy with the cheap equipment. Equipment for bitcoin mining is the digital equivalent.

[EE_]

Well, you could go hit the mountains with a pie pan and try to pan for gold, or invest a couple grand in a small dredge or sluice box and increase your chances of finding more gold than the guy with the cheap equipment. Equipment for bitcoin mining is the digital equivalent.

I don't see it that way.
When you pan for gold, you and you alone are in control of your operation...with bitcoins there is a third party involved, the people that control the internet

[Santa]

Well, I've got a digital girlfriend, so I guess a digital wallet and digital money would be the next logical step,
until the power goes out, or someone decides they're going to add another 21 million bitcoins to the limited supply.

Ack! I just can't get my head around this. And until I do, I can't trust it any more than I can trust an electronic voting machine.

[Hitch]

I don't see it that way.
When you pan for gold, you and you alone are in control of your operation...with bitcoins there is a third party involved, the people that control the internet

Also, gold's been around for thousands of years. Used as currency. Bitcoin has been around for what, 3 years?

Anything digital can either go "poof" or be under control of .gov.

tangibles folks. I wouldn't give you one 22 lr round for a bitcoin. Sorry.

[EE_]

It's a classic pyramid scheme, on a large scale. That's what I think

[Sparky]

Thinking about this...

First, I respect the idea of creating an alternative currency. If senators don't like it, there must be something good about it.

But it doesn't hang together as a standalone alternative. In other words, bitcoins only have value if there's a parallel fiat currency to give bitcoins some relative value. Fiat currency is widely distributed across the globe, with established exchange rates. That's what makes it work. It's flawed, I know, but it's established and accepted. Even if it crashes and burns tomorrow, it will have "worked" for a century of commerce.

So I'm trying to think of how bitcoins could become established, i.e. being able to purchase anything with it, the way fiat is used. Because bitcoins are used in such a small circle, by the time most of the 21 million coins are mined, 99% of them will be held by a microscopic portion of users. And by microscopic, I mean maybe a few million, which is nothing on a planet of 7 billion people. With such concentrated wealth, there are too many "have nots" that hold tangible goods and provide services such that they will be not willing to participate in a system in which they are operating at a tremendous disadvantage.

So, I understand and admire it in principle, but I don't think it will amount to more than a closed system with relatively minimal participants. Its more like the "community" currency that we read about, where individual towns create their own currency that is accepted locally. It's really only useful within a small circle of users. Worse, it has the downside of being completely intangible. It seems like the same risk that we talk about with digital money. If you don't hold it, you don't own it. How do you hold a bitcoin?

[EE_]

How do you hold a bitcoin?

"We'll hold them for you!"
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/bits/posts/google_brinpage.533.jpg
http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/Z/Mark-Zuckerberg-507402-1-402.jpghttp://dealbreaker.com/uploads/2012/10/Lloyd-Blankfein.jpg

[Santa]

They go in your digital wallet, next to your digital girlfriends photo.

[Roland]

well i guess better get on the ball and get rid of last years mining equipment.
in with the new.
with its peak performance of 1.7 petaflops ( thats a thousand trillion operations per second) i should be able to pay back that loan for a $133 million in no time.
yeah go road runner
http://cdn.gizmocrazed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/123.jpg

like bitcoin said in its own paper The system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any
cooperating group of attacker nodes- we should be able to keep ahead of tptb for awhile no doubt

[Hillbilly]

What about a Bitcoin Bubble? everthing that goes up in value this fast always ends up in a bubble then crashes.

[Mouse]

Time to come up with some bitcoin derivative markets so we can get the cash to invest in mining equipment.

[woodman]

I'm all for anything that gives people freedom outside of the banking empire. I think this will end up badly for those deeply involved however. They don't have to control the internet although they will no doubt head that way. They only have to make draconian laws forbidding the use of any currency that competes with their fiat. If the punishment is made severe for anyone holding or using an alternative currency, it will drop in value accordingly. You will be caught holding a hot potato. Put nothing past these bastards. Kennedy threatened their empire by printing US Government Notes and they killed him with great prejudice, in plain sight, in front of the whole world and covered it up blatantly.

Remember, competition is a sin. Money is their religion, do you believe they will let their God and their control be threatened?

I truly wish something would come along that would truly threaten the Banking system, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Neuro]

If bitcoins get traction, we will see banking starting to issue bitcoin equivalent certificates, where they supposedly holds the bit coins "securely" for you, we will see bitcoin derivative products, where a doubling in price of bit coins short term gives you a quadrupling of your investment, bitcoin credit cards for the masses, certainly it totally destroys the purpose of the bitcoin, but they did the same with gold and silver...

[reststop]

I'm all for anything that gives people freedom outside of the banking empire. I think this will end up badly for those deeply involved however. They don't have to control the internet although they will no doubt head that way. They only have to make draconian laws forbidding the use of any currency that competes with their fiat. If the punishment is made severe for anyone holding or using an alternative currency, it will drop in value accordingly. You will be caught holding a hot potato. Put nothing past these bastards. Kennedy threatened their empire by printing US Government Notes and they killed him with great prejudice, in plain sight, in front of the whole world and covered it up blatantly.

Remember, competition is a sin. Money is their religion, do you believe they will let their God and their control be threatened?

I truly wish something would come along that would truly threaten the Banking system, but I'm not holding my breath.

Have to agree with this. Any thing that remotely threatens will be dealt with severly. Seems to be that all they have to do is say it is now illegal to mine/use/hold bitcoins and thats that. And they will if they think they need to.

On anothe note, wont these high powerd mining machines make it all that much harder to mine for coins and ramp up that difficulty until no one can mine more coins? Interesting stuff.


rest

[vacuum]

If bitcoins get traction, we will see banking starting to issue bitcoin equivalent certificates, where they supposedly holds the bit coins "securely" for you, we will see bitcoin derivative products, where a doubling in price of bit coins short term gives you a quadrupling of your investment, bitcoin credit cards for the masses, certainly it totally destroys the purpose of the bitcoin, but they did the same with gold and silver...

There are more than just bitcoins out there. I think the cat is out of the bag :)




There are a number of other cryptocoins in use alongside Bitcoin, the most notable are:


Testnet Bitcoins (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet) (used only for testing Bitcoin applications, but they are an important mention) - they work exactly the same as Bitcoins.
Namecoins (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Namecoin) - coinage used as a distributed naiming system blockchain. Their most notable feature is that they can be merged mined with Bitcoins.
LiteCoins (http://litecoin.org/) - "silver to Bitcoin's gold" - their blocks are generated every 2,5 minutes, and their hashing algorithms are more CPU-friendly (mining with graphic cards doesn't work well with those).
SolidCoins (http://solidcoin.info/) - 2 minute blocks, there isn't a limit on how many coins will be generated, CPU friendly, difficulty is adjusted more often, close-source. The SolidCoins have undergone a "reset" recently and have earned themselves a negative reputation for how some issues were handled.
GeistGeld (http://www.geistgeld.org/get-started.html) - 15 seconds blocks, making it the fastest alternative crypto-currency.
I0coin (http://i0coins.com/) - they don't list any difference from Bitcoins on their website
Ixcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36218.0) - same parameters as Bitcoins, asides more coins being generated each block (thusly, all 21M coins will be generated sooner)
Tenebrix (http://www.tenebrix.org/) - CPU friendly, a few million coins pre-minted

There is a relative ease in creating new cryptocoins, as you can just tweak the main client, encode a new genesis block and start your alternatives with small effort.




Have to agree with this. Any thing that remotely threatens will be dealt with severly. Seems to be that all they have to do is say it is now illegal to mine/use/hold bitcoins and thats that. And they will if they think they need to.
Possibly, but it's an open source protocol, and I believe a lot of the devs are anonymous? Also, trying to kill it will simply make more robust protocols be developed. You can see this in how bitorrent has evolved over the years.


On anothe note, wont these high powerd mining machines make it all that much harder to mine for coins and ramp up that difficulty until no one can mine more coins? Interesting stuff.


rest
Yeah

[madfranks]

If bitcoins get traction, we will see banking starting to issue bitcoin equivalent certificates, where they supposedly holds the bit coins "securely" for you, we will see bitcoin derivative products, where a doubling in price of bit coins short term gives you a quadrupling of your investment, bitcoin credit cards for the masses, certainly it totally destroys the purpose of the bitcoin, but they did the same with gold and silver...

Bitcoins don't work that way. Why would you need a brick and mortar bank to secure a digital file for you on the internet? And how exactly would they do this? With bitcoins, you are your own bank, nobody needs to store it for you, because there's nothing to store. It's not like gold coins or paper money where third party banks store it for you.

I see where you're going with the certificates, but that's a step backwards for this currency. The value of bitcoins are their anonymity and their purely digital existence. What use would there be in paper certificates that lose you the ability to anonymously store value and trade?

[madfranks]

Have to agree with this. Any thing that remotely threatens will be dealt with severly. Seems to be that all they have to do is say it is now illegal to mine/use/hold bitcoins and thats that. And they will if they think they need to.

On anothe note, wont these high powerd mining machines make it all that much harder to mine for coins and ramp up that difficulty until no one can mine more coins? Interesting stuff.


rest

You raise a good point, what would happen if the gov't declared bitcoins to be terrorism and outlawed them? Would they disappear, or would they go deeper underground?

[Hitch]

You raise a good point, what would happen if the gov't declared bitcoins to be terrorism and outlawed them? Would they disappear, or would they go deeper underground?

According to .gov, anything they can't control is terrorism. To them, I'm sure if you are using bitcoins you must be doing something wrong (the need to hide your currency). I suppose the same can be used against gold and silver....but, gold and silver have been around for so long that it's an accepted form of value. Plus, people collect coins as a hobby too.

I must say, I've learned a lot from this thread. Personally, I just don't trust anything digital. Poof, it's gone.

[EE_]

You raise a good point, what would happen if the gov't declared bitcoins to be terrorism and outlawed them? Would they disappear, or would they go deeper underground?

I see Bitcoins being called money, cash, coins, and currency...what if the government declared them counterfeiting and a felony if caught using them? Would you risk having a felony record to use them? So much for your gun rights...

If the people are so hell bent on having a pure digital currency and a cashless society, maybe the government will just give it to you.

Uncle Sam

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KWo4mRz3Srw/T-70zHh5NiI/AAAAAAAAS1U/ilE3L1WYm-E/s1600/A+I-AM-JEW-AND-ABOUT-TO-SCREW-YOU-OUT-OF-ALL-YOUR-MONEY-WHITE-BOY.jpg

[vacuum]

You raise a good point, what would happen if the gov't declared bitcoins to be terrorism and outlawed them? Would they disappear, or would they go deeper underground?
Precisely how would they outlaw them?

[JohnQPublic]

...we use accelerated parallel processing, which involves harnessing the computational power of a graphics processing unit, or GPU (Why?)...

Because GPUs are cheap and plentiful. You can easily have 256 or more processors on a single card. This is part of the future of parallel processing. NVIDIA has been a big driver for GPU based processing.

[madfranks]

Precisely how would they outlaw them?

I could see the government declaring the use of bitcoins to be "aiding terrorism", because "only terrorists use them" and "they have no legitimate use for honest people". They're still anonymous, but then you'd be risking felony prosecution if you're ever linked to their use.

Just wondering out loud here.

[Hitch]

I could see the government declaring the use of bitcoins to be "aiding terrorism", because "only terrorists use them" and "they have no legitimate use for honest people". They're still anonymous, but then you'd be risking felony prosecution if you're ever linked to their use.

Just wondering out loud here.

Could the gov also create a virus that wipes out all the bitcoins? I'm not a tech guy, but also wondering out loud here.

[Neuro]

Bitcoins don't work that way. Why would you need a brick and mortar bank to secure a digital file for you on the internet? And how exactly would they do this? With bitcoins, you are your own bank, nobody needs to store it for you, because there's nothing to store. It's not like gold coins or paper money where third party banks store it for you.

I see where you're going with the certificates, but that's a step backwards for this currency. The value of bitcoins are their anonymity and their purely digital existence. What use would there be in paper certificates that lose you the ability to anonymously store value and trade?
Sure it is a step backwards! I totally agree, just like it is a step backwards to buy GLD or SLV, vs the real thing. I have read one story about a year ago where someone or several got their bitcoin wallet hacked, whether it is the truth or not is beside the point. The illusion is that the wallets are not safe, but a bank will guarantee your deposit of your bitcoin! Most people, if it indeed gains traction, will buy it primarily to make a profit, they will not care about the anonymity, they'll prefer the perceived safety of depositing it in a bank account, vs having your wallet hacked, and they would prefer to do the buying and selling through the perceived safety and routine of their bank, even if they have to pay a rather hefty commission to do so. Of course it is all bull, but that is how most people are, banks would sell 10-100x the bitcoins they actually have, suppressing the price systematically just like they have done with bullion...

Of course it makes far more sense to buy and hold bitcoins yourself, just like gold and silver, but people are stupid...

[madfranks]

Most people, if it indeed gains traction, will buy it primarily to make a profit, they will not care about the anonymity, they'll prefer the perceived safety of depositing it in a bank account, vs having your wallet hacked, and they would prefer to do the buying and selling through the perceived safety and routine of their bank, even if they have to pay a rather hefty commission to do so.

Like sparky mentioned previously in this thread, bitcoins serve a very niche market, and the niche that gives bitcoin its appeal is its privacy and anonymity in an otherwise heavily overseen and snooped upon financial economy. I can all but guarantee you that most people who actively use bitcoin for purchasing things online would never want the "safety" of third party oversight and control over their bitcoins. Once you give up the privacy and anonymity of your bitcoins, most of the allure of using them goes away and it would be much more convenient to simply bank in your government's fiat money of the day.

[mick silver]

how many here have made a house payment with bitcoins

[madfranks]

how many here have made a house payment with bitcoins

How many have made a house payment with gold and silver?

[madfranks]

Just found on ebay, people are making and selling paper bitcoin certificates where you "load" the bitcoin into the paper, and "redeem" it into your digital wallet by entering the code on the other side. Interesting!

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1-BTC-BitNote-Bitcoin-Paper-Note-Preloaded-Physical-Bit-Wallet-/00/s/NjgzWDE2MDA=/$T2eC16RHJGYE9nooh75vBQ4Z40R!z!~~60_58.GIF

[Neuro]

Like sparky mentioned previously in this thread, bitcoins serve a very niche market, and the niche that gives bitcoin its appeal is its privacy and anonymity in an otherwise heavily overseen and snooped upon financial economy. I can all but guarantee you that most people who actively use bitcoin for purchasing things online would never want the "safety" of third party oversight and control over their bitcoins. Once you give up the privacy and anonymity of your bitcoins, most of the allure of using them goes away and it would be much more convenient to simply bank in your government's fiat money of the day.
I really don't have an argument against this, apart from what I said, if it gets traction, iow if enough people think it would be a good idea to hold these bit coins, whether it is as a safe anonymous transaction possibility, or as an investment (these people should be an absolute majority for it to play out), then it wouldn't be a niche market any longer, and it would mean that banks and hedge funds would get in on it, and create their special products to cater to this market, sure you would lose the particular reason why bitcoins are special, and thus valuable, but it happened with gold and silver also, with the paper derivatives, that supposedly follows, but actually still leads the value of the real thing. Gold and silver would have a far greater price today if not the derivatives were here, inflating the supply, so that you have magnitudes greater supply for silver especially of investor grade wilver, and the "investors" just lap it up, of course paper silver is worthless in the long run, but investors only think of it in the short term, so it doesn't matter that much!

[EE_]

CoinLab Repatriating Bitcoin Funds to US? No Thanks!
2013 March 2
by sv http://silvervigilante.com/coinlab-repatriates-funds-to-us-no-thanks/

Venture capitalist backed Bitcoin Company, CoinLab, has worked for the past year to sign an exclusive deal with Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox. Based in Silicon Valley, CoinLab will take over exchange transactions for all US and Canada clients meaning your money will be moved to a US bank and CoinLab will function as the clearing pool for all p2p transactions on Mt. Gox. According to the company, they want to make it “safe” for US and Canadian investors to do large block trade of BTC.

“80 percent of Mt.Gox traffic already comes from this area. We are essentially buying their book of traffic,” Peter Vessenes told Bitcoin Magazine. By March 22nd, customers’ money will be moved from overseas to Silicon Valley Bank by March 22nd.
CoinLab is the first BTC company to get venture capital money – more than $500,000 – last year. They provided games paid for with BTC, but haved into mass retail transaction services with the recent deal. Currently, the average Mt. Gox customer pays .6% per transactions, and volume over 10,000 pays just .3%. These tier two customers will be offered live phone help via Coinlab.

Large transactions will be reported FinCEN, for Coinlab wishes to observe US money laundering rules, as well as know-your customer laws. Vessenes hopes to help customers with 250,000 to 500,000 blocks of Bitcoin to feel comfortable. Overall, he is not talking about many individuals in the Bitcoin network.

Coinlab will store private key data in hard safes. These private keys will be split into three parts with only two needed to unlock your transaction. They won’t be stored in a compuer database but printed and placed in a vault. Whoever can open the vault will be divided up: meaning a read team vault opener won’t be able to open the blue team’s vault.
Coinlab is also working on getting your data insured against loss. Lloyds of London has yet to finalize an insurance agreement with Coinlab. With storage insurance, Coinlab will then bring BTC mainstreamer. According to Vessenes, “Our deal with Mt.Gox means we just picked a retail customer but I care very much about the needs of the institutional investors.”Coinlab’s strategy page has a nifty life action chart of Bitcoin liquidity featuring a buy and sell button. The company will also work on alerts to their customers regarding big price swings. “Coinlab’s deal with Mt.Gox is great for Bitcoin liquidity in the US and Canada. It’s nice to see more formalized channels emerging here for Bitcoin FX. This is the start of many terrific things for Coinlab and the global FX market is $4 trillion but we still have a long way to go,” Joel Yarmon of Draper Associates, who invested in Coinlab, told Bitcoin Magazine.As one comment on BitcoinTalk goes:

Backroom crony capitalism is what this looks like. The title of this article is a flat out lie, only wishful thinking. Coinlab has no deal with any “Wall Street” firms or major financial institutions.
Mark Karpeles the owner of Mt.Gox DID NOT do this willingling. This is the result of staggering behind the scenes legal and political pressure. Why didn’t CoinLab just open their own exchange and compete fairly for the customers IF THEY HAVE SUCH A HOT VALUE PROPOSITION?

Ironically, this demonstrates that Coinlab and their backers don’t fully grasp bitcoins implications. Because thanks to bitcoin, my family, my businesses and customers don’t have to sit idly by and be victimized by ‘old school’ tactics. We will not tolerate being kidnaped and secretly spirited back to economic tyranny. This might give bitcoin a short term boost but it is very bad for liberty in the US. WAKE UP AMERICA, we are being hemmed in, the borders a closing.

-“Bitcoin is a global leaderless movement for currency independence and personal liberty” BitcoinATM

Cool, so Coinlab is gonna keep your money safe at Silicon Valley Bank. But, as a member of the FDIC, that means the party ultimately responsible for your funds is…the US government. No thanks! SVB is a subsidiary of the Financial Group out of…the UK! No thanks! From the subsidiary’s website:

Silicon Valley Bank is the California bank subsidiary and the commercial banking operation of SVB Financial Group. Banking services are provided by Silicon Valley Bank, a member of the FDIC and the Federal Reserve System. SVB Private Bank is a division of Silicon Valley Bank. SVB Financial Group is also a member of the Federal Reserve System.

“Legal stealing” is becoming a sad reality of the modern age. CFTC Regulation 1.25 provides that:

“No futures commission merchant and no clearing organization shall invest customer funds except in obligations of the United States, in general obligations of any State or of any political subdivision thereof, or in obligations fully guaranteed as to principal and interest by the United States. Such investments shall be made through an account or accounts used for the deposit of customer funds and proceeds from any sale of such obligations shall be re-deposited in such account or accounts.”

MF Global did just this,using segregated customer funds. Nothing happened. The CFTC is meant to ensure that customer segregated funds remain segreated. But, MF Global robbed the customers, and since nothing happened to that institution or JP Morgan (named in lawsuits), one can conclude the CFTC (the US government) was an accomplice to the theft of customer funds. “But, funds at Silicon Valley Bank are with the “FDIC” and not the “CFTC.”

You’re missing the point. The mainstream media probably helped you along the way of missing the point.

…MF Global’s failure is contained within a relatively small circle of owners, lenders counterparties and customers. This isn’t to minimize the large and painful losses, but there are no public losses and, so far, little systemic fallout.

Ok, so grand larceny is no longer a crime, and Coinlab wants to leave bitcoiners funds within this insane system? The owners of coinlab, as the Bitcointalker expresses, is missing the point. “Little systemtic failure?” If/when a branch of the US government fails to perform its duty, that IS systemic failure. Period.

Coinlab is playing right into the strong suit of the Powers That Be. As dominant financial system investors know, things are moving very fast in terms of closing opportunities off for US funds abroad. As Dollar Vigilante wrote in their “Getting Your Gold Out Of Dodge“:

“The US Government has been closing as many doors as possible. It has been years since a US citizen has been accepted in any other country as a stock brokerage client as the SEC has used the threat of their black helicopters to ensure that no one dare accept those with a US passport as a client. And now, with the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA passed in 2010 and some of its legislation coming into effect this year, it all but ensures that soon no bank anywhere in the world will accept US citizens as clients…”

Banks the world over are shutting down opportunities to hold accounts abroad. International banks, in the face of FATCA, will follow the lead of those banks that have already made moves to cease the acceptance of US citizens. As Silver Vigilante recently covered, one of the foremost gold storage vaults in the world, ViaMat, will also cease their acceptance of US citizens:

“We are currently experiencing rapid and substantial changes in the general regulations within this business. The changes mainly relate to the tax structures and taxation systems of various countries. As a consequence of these changes VIA MAT INTERNATIONAL has taken the decision to stop offering this service at its vault [sic] outside of the US to private customers with potential US-tax liability.”




GoldMoney and Bullion Vault use ViaMat for storage. Many of the retail storage facilities, at the end, use ViaMat to store metals.

Although playing right into the hands of the bankers, there is no evidence that this is a backdoor way of mass market drive-by-shooting to occur in Bitcoin, just as it does in silver.

As essentially a new “exchange,” Coinlab can now technically enable just a few individuals or organization to trade and sell on the exchange without Bitcoin backing their trade, since they could, technically, BE the exchange. So, my concern is that this could be the entrance of 33 Liberty into the Bitcoin market to sell BTC they do not have and, as silver vigilantes will know, tank the price.

No way!

You think Bitcoin price above silver price has not been acknowledged by High Finance? It’s likely, contrarily, they know what’s going on, and they are not pleased with this new p2p currency stealing headlines, allowing the entire world to ignore fiat in real time, now, today. Nothing short of a 51% attack on the network can allow them to control the price. The dominant financial system must protect itself from $100 Bitcoin prices as large-scale investors move into the market. Marketing this new advent as a bank, the place to store your Bitcoin, the Bitcoin community has to acknowledge that the Powers That Be will need a mechanism (bank/exchange) to control our beloved BTC price. There is merely not enough supply at these new levels to sustain any sort of serial million dollar investments without really moving the price. Check the Mt. Gox tick chart, the price was knocked from $34.80 to $33.15 off 22,000 BTC sold in around one hour; that means only $748,000 in BTC needed to be moved in one hour to move the price 4.75%. That is 6.1 days worth of BTC supply.

Or maybe I’m just missing the point?

[Cebu_4_2]

World's first Bitcoin ATM coming to San Diego
Bitcoin making financial headlines worldwide




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(Photo courtesy: C. Herrera/10News)
Copyright 2013 Scripps Media, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


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Posted: 05/02/2013
Last Updated: 43 minutes ago


http://www.10news.com/image/user_male_portrait?img_id=73929784&t=1367550454254 Craig Herrera | Email Me (craig.herrera@10news.com)

SAN DIEGO - The first ever Bitcoin ATM was unveiled Thursday, putting San Diego at the forefront of this new technology.

BitcoinATM (https://bitcoinatm.com/) CEO Evan Rose, a San Diegan, said, "Basically allowing people to but Bitcoins with cash, cash Bitcoins out right on the spot."

Bitcoin (http://bitcoin.org/en/) are not physical currency; they are digital currency that can be sent through the Internet without going through a bank or clearinghouse. It's anonymous on the free market, and the financial world is watching this new way of exchanging currency closely.

Bitcoin can be used to buy products online with merchants who accept them.

"Bitcoin is inherently technical; it's somewhat difficult to buy, it's very difficult to exchange Bitcoin for hard currency and the solution that we've come up with in the very familiar ATM platform accomplishes all three of those bottlenecks," said Rose.

Right now, all Bitcoin exchanges are done online, but the new ATM changes it all by allowing users to get cash out or make deposits to their accounts.

Users can walk up to the machine and make a deposit. The user then gets a receipt and that receipt has a confirmation number on it. That confirmation number can be given to anybody around the world and they can go up to a machine and make a withdrawal themselves.

There are several currency exchanges where users can trade Bitcoin for dollars, Euro and more. The value is all based on currency, and on May 2, $1 is worth about 100 Bitcoin.

"Bitcoin is an idea whose time has come," said Rose.

Bitcoin ATMs could soon be in neighborhoods and cities all over the world in 3 to 6 months.

BitcoinATM will also franchise so anyone can own their own Bitcoin ATM.
Learn more about Bitcoin by visiting http://bitcoin.org/en/

[Ponce]

I like more the machines in Hong Kong where you can buy gold coins.

V

[Mouse]

There are several currency exchanges where users can trade Bitcoin for dollars, Euro and more. The value is all based on currency, and on May 2, $1 is worth about 100 Bitcoin.

I will clean that machine out and any like it. Where are they?