My bear case for gold - let's discuss this

[EE_]

Okay, to start, anyone with open eyes should know the so called Jews, the 2%ers control it all.

For two thousand years they have been expelled from every country/place they have been.
Yet the 2%ers keep coming back and now control the whole world.

They control the money/finance, the media and governments. They control our military and send our boys to die in their wars for Israel.

These 2%ers set the spot price for gold and silver and they freely manipulate the price...just as they freely manipulate the stock market.
They have engineered every boom and bust in history and have profitted greatly from both sides of them.

These people...if you want to give them that much credit as being human, have genocided so many millions of people throughout time and are still at it today.

They have created their own religeous state that is protected by the full might of our US military...our sons and daughters.

The power of money and the ability to create it at will, is at the root of all this and gives them unlimited power.

My question is, do we really think we can beat the Jew at a game they have complete control of?
If they want the price of gold to drop, don't you think they can engineer it to do so?

Tell me why I should hold on to my metals and not cash out for other investments, cash and the possibility of buying back at a much lower price later?

Do you really think you're smarter then the Jew?

[Glass]

Have you invested in precious metals for profit or preservation? Sounds like profit to me. Nothing wrong with that but valuations could prove difficult if you are valuing it using make believe. If it's for preservation then the price of precious metals doesn't matter except when you get in.

[Hitch]

Tell me why I should hold on to my metals and not cash out for other investments, cash and the possibility of buying back at a much lower price later?

Do you really think you're smarter then the Jew?

I think everyone here knows to hold physical. The paper price can be manipulated, but the physical price will separate from that when the whole house of cards implodes.

Look at what is happening with ammo, same thing will happen with metals. Too much demand for physical, not enough supply.

I don't see it as a problem with the Jewish people, but a greed problem. And a control problem. Can't blame one race or religion on that, imo.

[EE_]

I think everyone here knows to hold physical. The paper price can be manipulated, but the physical price will separate from that when the whole house of cards implodes.

Look at what is happening with ammo, same thing will happen with metals. Too much demand for physical, not enough supply.

I don't see it as a problem with the Jewish people, but a greed problem. And a control problem. Can't blame one race or religion on that, imo.

They are manipulating 90% of the public to chase equities and home prices.
They do not want you to own gold and silver.
I only call them Jews because that is the idenity they chose to hide behind. Call them what you like, Khazar's, Ashkanazi's, descendants of the Hun, or the synagogue of Satan...they all have Jewish names.
Do you think they did 9/11, with the intent to send our young men to another war to destroy Israels enemies?

[EE_]

Have you invested in precious metals for profit or preservation? Sounds like profit to me. Nothing wrong with that but valuations could prove difficult if you are valuing it using make believe. If it's for preservation then the price of precious metals doesn't matter except when you get in.

A little of both...and neither of these motives wants to see $1,000 gold and $10 silver again.
Where's the preservation in that scenario?
I've learned a long time ago to never be married to any investment. Or simply put, never be married.
This recovery has me wondering.

I was around when they crushed it in 1980...could they do it again?

[Hitch]

Do you think they did 9/11, with the intent to send our young men to another war to destroy Israels enemies?

I'm sure there were many hands in that cookie jar, including big oil.

I just think calling those greedy controlling bastards Jews tends condemn a lot of innocent people. There's a small percentage there at work.

[EE_]

I'm sure there were many hands in that cookie jar, including big oil.

I just think calling those greedy controlling bastards Jews tends condemn a lot of innocent people. There's a small percentage there at work.

I know there are many fine Jewish people that are as fine of Americans as anyone. Notice I refer to them as "Jewish".
This small percentage you refer to, holds a disproportionate percentage of positions of high power, of business, government, finance, money and media.
Try living just one day without the Jew hand in your life...bet you can't do it.

[Glass]

Where's the preservation in that scenario?


1 ounce of Gold is always worth 1 ounce of Gold so preservation is 100%. I'd say based on your response you are 100% after profit from investments when valued in something other than Gold. By preservation, I mean having something in your hand when everything else has gone including the monetary system vaporizing. otherwise the FRN rating of gold is irrelevant. It's what it cost you to get that's relevant.

[EE_]

1 ounce of Gold is always worth 1 ounce of Gold so preservation is 100%. I'd say based on your response you are 100% after profit from investments when valued in something other than Gold. By preservation, I mean having something in your hand when everything else has gone including the monetary system vaporizing. otherwise the FRN rating of gold is irrelevant. It's what it cost you to get that's relevant.

I see preservation as retaining purchasing power. If the purchasing power gets cut in half you've preserved nothing.
I think most of us here have outpaced inflation or currency debasement in metals.
We all know one day we will have to sell. If they some how manage to crush price, are you prepared to wait 30 years for price to recover? Understand, I am evaluating both sides.

Thanks for your response.
EE

[Santa]

This brings up a question. I'm pretty stupid concerning physical sciences, so bear with me.

Forgive me if I'm highjacking the thread. I just see a variable in the equation for being bearish on gold.

If gold particles are suspended in water, as in colloidal gold... and silver as well,... then that means that the gold nano-particles are larger than water. Is that correct?

The reason I ask this question is because Lockheed Martin has just developed a nano-carbon filter technology that they say will be able to
separate salt from water because the water can pass through the graphine or nano-carbon filter, but the salt cannot.

If this nano-carbon, or graphine technology can separate salt which will provide a very inexpensive method of desalination, then wouldn't the same
technology be able to extract pretty much any particulate matter from seawater also?

And if that's the case, then extracting and collecting gold on a large scale by filtering seawater should "theoretically at least" be as easy as extracting salt from seawater.

In other words, nano-technology is on the verge of opening up a vast new supply of many previously scarce materials and resources.

What if these new technologies cause PM to become as easy to extract as it currently is easy to make paper? ???

Here are a couple video clips on graphine and how simple and easy it actually is to make, as well as it's future potential.

The first video is kind of corporate hokum describing consumer possibilities, but I think there's much more to this than what it's suggesting.


http://youtu.be/Q_eTLPKdrHs
,

http://youtu.be/EX8ClPVkD1g

[Santa]

Say a desalination plant is developed that filters hundreds of thousands, or even millions of gallons of seawater a day and the salt and everything else remains as a waste bi-product of the desalination process, then this graphine filter technology should be able to be engineered to be able to separate out pretty much any material, based simply on the atomic structure particle size, or am I missing something really stupid?

[vacuum]

Tell me why I should hold on to my metals and not cash out for other investments, cash and the possibility of buying back at a much lower price later?
How do you know cash won't be the next thing engineered to crash? Or stocks? Or property? Any asset could potentially be engineered to crash at any time.


Do you really think you're smarter then the Jew?
But you are trying to out-smart them. You're trying to predict where the next bubble will be and where the next bust will be. Perhaps gold will be manipulated to go extremely high on purpose? After all, who has most of the gold?

[horseshoe3]

A gold atom is 166 pm diameter. I water molecule is about 165x95 pm. The sodium atom itself is 227 pm diameter. Add on the 180 pm Cl atom and salt becomes very big and easy to catch compared to gold which is almost as small as the water carrier.

[mamboni]

This brings up a question. I'm pretty stupid concerning physical sciences, so bear with me.

Forgive me if I'm highjacking the thread. I just see a variable in the equation for being bearish on gold.

If gold particles are suspended in water, as in colloidal gold... and silver as well,... then that means that the gold nano-particles are larger than water. Is that correct?

The reason I ask this question is because Lockheed Martin has just developed a nano-carbon filter technology that they say will be able to
separate salt from water because the water can pass through the graphine or nano-carbon filter, but the salt cannot.

If this nano-carbon, or graphine technology can separate salt which will provide a very inexpensive method of desalination, then wouldn't the same
technology be able to extract pretty much any particulate matter from seawater also?

And if that's the case, then extracting and collecting gold on a large scale by filtering seawater should "theoretically at least" be as easy as extracting salt from seawater.

In other words, nano-technology is on the verge of opening up a vast new supply of many previously scarce materials and resources.

What if these new technologies cause PM to become as easy to extract as it currently is easy to make paper? ???

Here are a couple video clips on graphine and how simple and easy it actually is to make, as well as it's future potential.

The first video is kind of corporate hokum describing consumer possibilities, but I think there's much more to this than what it's suggesting.


http://youtu.be/Q_eTLPKdrHs
,

http://youtu.be/EX8ClPVkD1g

Santa:

You bring up some thought provoking points worthy of discussion. But, I seem to recall similar talk about solar cells and how they will create so much abundant energy as to be a panacea for civilization. There's a factor in this that we are apt to forget: entropy. This is the energy required to frabricate and operate the mechanism. You may be right about graphene and mass gold harvesting from sea water. But I have a feeling that the energy needed to fabricate the graphene filter and pump the millions of gallons of sea water just to produce 1 ounce of elemental gold will make the process uneconomic at today's and tommorow's gold price.

The concentration of gold in seawater is estimated to be 10–30 parts per quadrillion (http://gold-silver.us/wiki/1,000,000,000,000,000) (about 10–30 g/km3). Let's be optimists and take the upper concentration. A cubic km equates to 264,000,000,000 gallons, or 265 billion gallons, about the equivalent held by 3,000 supertankers. Imagine the energy needed to process that volume just to get 1 ounce of gold, assuming 100% effciency of extraction.

I'm not losing sleep worrying about the price of gold collapsing because of graphene-based extraction from sea water.

[joboo]

Everyone's busy accumulating right now until the inevitable. The next big paper offering will not be paper only.

[Santa]

Santa:

You bring up some thought provoking points worthy of discussion. But, I seem to recall similar talk about solar cells and how they will create so much abundant energy as to be a panacea for civilization. There's a factor in this that we are apt to forget: entropy. This is the energy required to frabricate and operate the mechanism. You may be right about graphene and mass gold harvesting from sea water. But I have a feeling that the energy needed to fabricate the graphene filter and pump the millions of gallons of sea water just to produce 1 ounce of elemental gold will make the process uneconomic at today's and tommorow's gold price.

The concentration of gold in seawater is estimated to be 10–30 parts per quadrillion (http://gold-silver.us/wiki/1,000,000,000,000,000) (about 10–30 g/km3). Let's be optimists and take the upper concentration. A cubic km equates to 264,000,000,000 gallons, or 265 billion gallons, about the equivalent held by 3,000 supertankers. Imagine the energy needed to process that volume just to get 1 ounce of gold, assuming 100% effciency of extraction.

I'm not losing sleep worrying about the price of gold collapsing because of graphene-based extraction from sea water.

Thanks Mamboni. Much appreciated. Mine are just random thoughts. Although, this graphene technology holds some amazing energy collecting and storage potential as well.

http://asingularity.net/archives/4418

[Glass]

I see preservation as retaining purchasing power. If the purchasing power gets cut in half you've preserved nothing.
I think most of us here have outpaced inflation or currency debasement in metals.
We all know one day we will have to sell. If they some how manage to crush price, are you prepared to wait 30 years for price to recover? Understand, I am evaluating both sides.

Thanks for your response.
EE

I can see your angle and I was pointing out that valuation is relative. When there are no alternative systems of energy or wealth storage such as FIAT then there is no valuation yard stick for gold. I think you are concerned that your valuation yard stick will be revalued higher resulting in a perceived devaluation of wealth. This only occurs when there is a comparison and one of the items for comparison is considered a yard stick and that yard stick has elastic value based on purely arbitary factors.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick I guess is what I am suggesting. Gold is worth what you can get for it when you trade it. Just becareful what you trade it for. FRN's are a poor option. 2 or three cows might be better value for an ounce of gold when FRN's are worthless.

[Hitch]

Mine are just random thoughts. Although, this graphene technology holds some amazing energy collecting and storage potential as well.

Random thoughts? Do you realize what this graphene technology can do for sailors?

I am surrounded by waters I can not drink. Now, you tell me there's a filter that can give me fresh drinking water....I'm listening.

[Santa]

Random thoughts? Do you realize what this graphene technology can do for sailors?

I am surrounded by waters I can not drink. Now, you tell me there's a filter that can give me fresh drinking water....I'm listening.

Well, at the moment this breakthrough technology is being developed by Lockheed Martin, so they'll probably just bury the patent after the news pumps up their stock value.

[Twisted Titan]

Random thoughts? Do you realize what this graphene technology can do for sailors?

I am surrounded by waters I can not drink. Now, you tell me there's a filter that can give me fresh drinking water....I'm listening.

This is just the latest tech to a problem that has been solved eons before.

A simple sheet of plastic, a collection container,gravity and the sun is all that is required a basic knowledge.

The challenge is gubbermints run by the hook nose vermin know that ( like money) clean drinking water is absolutely crucial to being free or retaining freedom.

[Hitch]

This is just the latest tech to a problem that has been solved eons before.

A simple sheet of plastic, a collection container,gravity and the sun is all that is required a basic knowledge.

The challenge is gubbermints run by the hook nose vermin know that ( like money) clean drinking water is absolutely crucial to being free or retaining freedom.

Solar distillers, I have two. They actually work great, but...you need the sun. Also, doesn't work that great while out at sea because the water sloshes around. You need calm conditions. Also, they take up quite a bit of space.

However they do work and are a tool to use if needed. For 7 days, all the water I drank was from the distillers, so they will put out enough for my survival.

This graphene technology is very exciting though. I imagine a simple filter, like a coffee filter, pour your seawater into it, and out comes fresh water.

Sorry EE, for going off topic. This topic is definitely worthy of it's own thread.

[Santa]

I just had a thread of a rather disturbing idea. The idea that the satanic demons are manipulating this new technology, not only to develop alternative methods for desalination
and energy independence: those potentials being merely carrots offered to us consumers, but also to recreate and thus hold Patents on the very substance of our world.
Carbon.

Thinking of how Monsanto, for instance, has recreated patentable primary foodstuffs through GM and biotechnology, so too are they recreating the very earth on which we all live, by reconfiguring carbon into a patentable building block necessary to continue our existence into the future. Carbon nanotechnology.

At this point my thought is just an intuitive leap.

As simple a process as the concept of graphene is being promoted, I wonder whether this nanotech stuff can or will ever be legally open sourced, so to speak.

[gunDriller]

The concentration of gold in seawater is estimated to be 10–30 parts per quadrillion (http://gold-silver.us/wiki/1,000,000,000,000,000) (about 10–30 g/km3). Let's be optimists and take the upper concentration. A cubic km equates to 264,000,000,000 gallons, or 265 billion gallons, about the equivalent held by 3,000 supertankers. Imagine the energy needed to process that volume just to get 1 ounce of gold, assuming 100% effciency of extraction.

it is a fascinating technical & social problem to work on.

it's not a 2013 project for me but i am keeping an eye open for a cheap sea-worthy boat to use as a floating lab.

i think part of the problem is getting a permit - hence the boat.


a good point about the Jews having the thing rigged. they control the government that controls the permits, and you will NEVER (or hardly ever) get a permit for a sea-side plant that pumps ... let's do the calcs -

"The concentration of gold in seawater is estimated to be 1030 parts per quadrillion."

OK, to make the math easy, let's say you would be happy with 20 grams per day and the concentration is 20 parts per quadrillion.

so you need to pump 1 quadrillion grams per day. easy conversion, 1 quadrillion cc per day, about 236 cc per cup, 944 cc per quart, 3776 cc per gallon.

so all you need is to process .265 Trillion Gallons per day, a mere 265 billion gallons.


always wanted to do those calculations !


if i was working on the plant i would park my processor in a place that gets a natural water flow, e.g. the Gibraltar straits or some other narrow-necked piece of land that also satisfies conditions of water cleanliness, seaworthiness considerations (ability to respond to storms), and social engineering considerations like 'blending in' - if the local government knows you're sitting there extracting gold from the sea-water, i think they'd send a tax-man your way.

anywhere, somewhere to anchor where you can peacefully do your work. then all you do is to figure out how to extract the gold, and to do it, and to document that you did it.

even if you only recovered one gram, you could easily market an IPO that nets you $1 Billion - even for an extraction rate that is not quite yet profitable, e.g. 1 gram per day, perhaps covering only 40% of the cost of fuel (going from figures provided by a small-scale miner i know, his operation uses about $125 worth of fuel a day to power a ball mill and some gravimetric extraction equipment - equipment that uses gold's density to extract it, like a gold panner, but, automatic & mechanical. his facility processes 20 tons per day, grinding it all up into powder - which takes a lot of energy.)

so let's say, 265 billion gallons divided by 20, 1.325 billion gallons, for the iteration of the prototype which could be used to justify IPO.


of course, it's better if you can do it without venture capital, and go straight to IPO. a 10th or 100th of a gram would get the interest of many investors. call it a 50th of a gram. 26.5 million gallons of sea-water for proof of concept.

worth working on, i'd say.

then you just need to find a way to process 26.5 million gallons of water a day, using tidal action to provide most of the pumping.


as a side-note, i would also be interested in processing sea-floor-mud. i think it will have a higher yield. maybe i'll go to the beach this summer and dig up 40 buckets of mud. about 60 pounds for 4 gallons of mud recovered from shallow water, would weigh about 2400 pounds.

then you just have to do an assay on that 2400 pounds.


without doing a web-search, i would guess that most current ocean mining efforts for precious metals are concentrating on ocean-bottom-mud, not sea-water.




Okay, to start, anyone with open eyes should know the so called Jews, the 2%ers control it all.

Do you really think you're smarter then the Jew?

i think it comes out to about .2% of the world's population is Jewish.

[Santa]

What if, rather than building some elaborate and costly new plant that pumps billions of gallons of seawater, you make an attachable device and trawl for gold using boats that already have a commercial or even recreational function?

[steyr_m]

1 ounce of Gold is always worth 1 ounce of Gold

Unless it's gold-plated tungsten....