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madfranks
6th March 2013, 10:08 PM
Anyone else find it eerily strange that bitcoins rose to $49 and change before receding back down? Just like silver. That is quite the coincidence.

Shami-Amourae
7th March 2013, 05:21 AM
The number 50 is a psychological barrier. I don't think it will go over $50. I'm waiting for Bitcoin to drop back to $2, then buy up a shit load and wait a year till it goes back up to $50. That's basically what I did last time (I didn't buy a SHIT LOAD though last time.)

BTW, BrotherJohnF did a response to Chris Duane's video. Of course Chris releases the video right before it's obvious the price is going to crash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLSvd4LyP8

Santa
7th March 2013, 07:04 AM
Huh? Stupid me....

I just listened to brotherjohnF in the video above, and here's what I heard.

Apparently, according to the Brother, both times these bitcoins crashed was because they were HACKED?

In other words, this isn't technically a Ponzi Scheme, Nooooo, it's just a different kind of pump and dump scam that can be controlled and manipulated by anonymous HACKERS?

BrotherF admitted this is so, so how it this not the case?

Ares
7th March 2013, 07:32 AM
Huh? Stupid me....

I just listened to brotherjohnF in the video above, and here's what I heard.

Apparently, according to the Brother, both times these bitcoins crashed was because they were HACKED?

In other words, this isn't technically a Ponzi Scheme, Nooooo, it's just a different kind of pump and dump scam that can be controlled and manipulated by anonymous HACKERS?

BrotherF admitted this is so, so how it this not the case?


BrotherF never said Bitcoins were hacked. He said the EXCHANGE was hacked. MtGox (https://mtgox.com/) (Bitcoin exchange where you buy / sell bitcoins) was hacked causing the price to drop dramatically. The other exchanges didn't get hacked.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/06/bitcoin-price-plummets-on-compromised-exchange/

This would be equivalent to someone breaking into NASDAQ and selling Cisco shares for pennies on the dollar and buying them on the cheap anonymously. The stock (bitcoins) are secure, but the exchange is the one that got compromised.

Silver Rocket Bitches!
7th March 2013, 08:14 AM
Bitcoin does appear to be in a manic phase but it's important to remember that the number of bitcoins in existence is finite. Susceptible to pump and dump schemes but comparisons to the Tulip bubble are far fetched imo.

Santa
7th March 2013, 08:22 AM
(Bitcoin exchange where you buy / sell bitcoins) was hacked causing the price to drop dramatically.

This represents a serious breach in the integrity of the system.

These manipulations are occurring. The hack caused the price to drop dramatically through manipulation. It was HACKED.

It happened twice already. How can this be considered a secure alternative currency when it's being manipulated by anonymous fucktard hackers?

It's a pump and dump operation in which only the hackers, (the insiders) know exactly when the crash will occur because the fucktards themselves cause it.

madfranks
7th March 2013, 08:28 AM
Bitcoins are a fledgling currency. That means that right now they're not as stable as many expect their money to be. It's to be expected that as bitcoins develops and finds it's footing that there will be fluctuations in it's price. This makes many people uncomfortable, and they mistakenly conclude that these fluctuations prove the inadequacy of the currency. Years from now, when bitcoins are on solid ground, these fluctuations will be a thing of the past and bitcoins will be one of the most stable currencies in the world. If you understand this, and other dynamics of how money works, you can use it to your advantage.

Ares
7th March 2013, 09:04 AM
This represents a serious breach in the integrity of the system.

These manipulations are occurring. The hack caused the price to drop dramatically through manipulation. It was HACKED.

It happened twice already. How can this be considered a secure alternative currency when it's being manipulated by anonymous fucktard hackers?

It's a pump and dump operation in which only the hackers, (the insiders) know exactly when the crash will occur because the fucktards themselves cause it.

Yeah.. umm a bank robbery is a serious breach of integrity of that Federal Reserve system. Yet you still use it.

Santa
7th March 2013, 10:11 AM
Bitcoins are a fledgling currency. That means that right now they're not as stable as many expect their money to be. It's to be expected that as bitcoins develops and finds it's footing that there will be fluctuations in it's price. This makes many people uncomfortable, and they mistakenly conclude that these fluctuations prove the inadequacy of the currency. Years from now, when bitcoins are on solid ground, these fluctuations will be a thing of the past and bitcoins will be one of the most stable currencies in the world. If you understand this, and other dynamics of how money works, you can use it to your advantage.

MadFrankLoydWright. LOL....

While I'm all for alternative means of free enterprise competitive currency, the reason I am is because the FRN is being MANIPULATED to the advantage of a small secret cabal of International Banksters. Crooks. Psychopaths.

But I'm sure as hell not going to change over to another currency that's already been shown to be MANIPULATED to the advantage of a small secret cabal of International Hacksters. And there's no telling how many other holes there are hiding in the wings.

I got out of the "free market" "cough" exactly because of this type of anonymous manipulation. The whole fucking market is nothing but a giant PUMP and DUMP.

Personally, I believe in a long term sustainable Perma-culture. A solid foundation. Stability. Integrity. An honest work ethic. A decent place to grow children into human beings.

Currently, bitcoin doesn't offer any of that. And till it does, it's just the same fucking shell game.

woodman
7th March 2013, 07:16 PM
From casey Research:http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/dark-side-web

The most popular - or at least best known among the commerce sites thus far - is the aptly named Silk Road. This early-'90s-esque eBay/Craigslist hybrid is a marketplace for anything you won't find on the aforementioned clear net inspirations, from the odd to the downright illegal.
How do you get to the Silk Road? Well, like any other anonymous service, it cannot be reached through a typical web address. Instead, you can only load it up on Tor, and you must use its "onion" URL:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/home (http://sg2.caseyresearch.com/wf/click?upn=7if4gq6XVEEPyYYxOlnXqUkIyjV5pAuK-2FE1I0w-2B3RPB-2Fc1cTP8DTzuJvgTpwH0tRgQmHkjLdSET0oCJKPNAvZQ-3D-3D_s05X9xoBexPqcWR478vP1BO5JEfYw1L6-2BQz5au7Bsl0yfA6cxKph-2FRXr6lbRmFnFfzS7-2FjnnxbEqPvaykIxS-2BIl1RGcpvO1IY-2FRjRYpVTjZfBJYbeEwM3o3MWp7c2Mb0-2Bq3LN56v3I3A-2B9LOWF9g1kKl76KB0oA9yjFduFgPvdlyqlHRe8BNENoFW9XEB H5Tt-2F4FvrfEQMOTaBcvdyawQw-3D-3D)
Once you load up that site in your Tor browser, you'll be prompted to create an anonymous account, after which you'll be presented with a bazaar of goods from guns to cocaine to cold, hard cash.
Why cash? On Silk Road and the many other sites like it, the currency of choice is the digital cash-equivalent known as Bitcoins. Exchangeable for dollars, euros, and virtually any other global currency, these controversial digital coins make it possible to take credit cards out of the online commerce equation, allowing the secure digital equivalent of mailing envelopes of cash to a PO Box. Just like cash, there's no way to trace them, and no recourse if they are lost or stolen - but they are also just as anonymous and free from regulation (for now).

steyr_m
7th March 2013, 07:26 PM
I don't know enough about it, but anything electronic can be hacked. i'm a bit leery.

EE_
11th March 2013, 09:15 AM
I don't know enough about it, but anything electronic can be hacked. i'm a bit leery.

Hackers steal over $12,000 of Bitcoins from transaction broker Bitinstant
By Nathan Ingraham on March 8, 2013 03:41 pm Email @NateIngraham

Online institutions of all types are vulnerable to hacking, and Bitcoin is no exception: last week, hackers stole over $12,000 worth of Bitcoin currency from Bitinstant, one of the bigger Bitcoin transaction sites. As with many recent hacks, the Bitcoin theft was executed thanks to a bit of social engineering. According to the Bitinstant blog, the attacker went to the company's domain registrar posing as a Bitinstant employee — the attacker had a similar enough email address and knowledge of the employee's date of birth and mother's maiden name. From there, the attacker convinced the domain registrar to make the fake email address the default and to reset the account's password.

Once the attacker had access to the Bitinstant domain, he redirected the DNS to servers in Germany and then to the Ukraine, locking out the Bitinstant employees and gaining access to their email accounts. With control over the email accounts, they reset the login for a Bitcoin exchange and stole the $12,800 in three separate transactions. Getting access to the Bitcoin exchange proved simple because of a lack of two-factor authentication — all the thieves needed was a username and password.

Fortunately for Bitinstant and the company's customers, no personal information was obtained by the hacker — the company says it keeps all personal and transactional data offline to protect user privacy. Sadly, it wasn't as vigilant with other forms of security. Wired reports that Virwox, the Bitcoin exchange hackers raided, has supported multi-factor authentication since September of 2012. "Bitinstant was not using it (they learned and do now)," a Virwox representative told Wired.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/8/4080160/hackers-steal-over-12000-of-bitcoins-from-bitinstant

madfranks
11th March 2013, 11:47 AM
Hackers steal over $12,000 of Bitcoins from transaction broker Bitinstant
By Nathan Ingraham on March 8, 2013 03:41 pm Email @NateIngraham

Online institutions of all types are vulnerable to hacking, and Bitcoin is no exception: last week, hackers stole over $12,000 worth of Bitcoin currency from Bitinstant, one of the bigger Bitcoin transaction sites. As with many recent hacks, the Bitcoin theft was executed thanks to a bit of social engineering. According to the Bitinstant blog, the attacker went to the company's domain registrar posing as a Bitinstant employee — the attacker had a similar enough email address and knowledge of the employee's date of birth and mother's maiden name. From there, the attacker convinced the domain registrar to make the fake email address the default and to reset the account's password.

Once the attacker had access to the Bitinstant domain, he redirected the DNS to servers in Germany and then to the Ukraine, locking out the Bitinstant employees and gaining access to their email accounts. With control over the email accounts, they reset the login for a Bitcoin exchange and stole the $12,800 in three separate transactions. Getting access to the Bitcoin exchange proved simple because of a lack of two-factor authentication — all the thieves needed was a username and password.

Fortunately for Bitinstant and the company's customers, no personal information was obtained by the hacker — the company says it keeps all personal and transactional data offline to protect user privacy. Sadly, it wasn't as vigilant with other forms of security. Wired reports that Virwox, the Bitcoin exchange hackers raided, has supported multi-factor authentication since September of 2012. "Bitinstant was not using it (they learned and do now)," a Virwox representative told Wired.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/8/4080160/hackers-steal-over-12000-of-bitcoins-from-bitinstant

This sucks, but really is no different than old fashioned bank robbery. The difference is, there is no FDIC or central issuing authority to simply print more bitcoins into existence and make the victims whole.

Shami-Amourae
11th March 2013, 12:08 PM
I'll give you guys a hint. Bankers what to shut Bitcoin down. They want to do whatever they can to discredit it. Make you afraid. Exchanges are the targets.

I've had Bitcoins stolen from me myself. I learned my lesson. You treat it like cash, don't treat it like a credit card or your bank. Understand that if you sell Bitcoins, someone can report the dollars they gave you as stolen and get a chargeback (what happened to me.) So only go to exchanges like Mt. Gox (https://mtgox.com/). Don't trust anyone other than a trusted exchange, and when you finish your trading, pull your dollars and Bitcoins out of their servers ASAP and store it on your hard drive(s).

chad
11th March 2013, 12:14 PM
emp burst = no more bitcoins

Shami-Amourae
11th March 2013, 12:17 PM
emp burst = no more bitcoins

If there was an EMP burst civilization would collapse. That's why you have Gold, Silver, Ammo, and Physical Dollars.

Bitcoins are an online currency. They compete with things like the credit card and Paypal type systems.

sirgonzo420
19th March 2013, 06:38 AM
Currently at $53.99

sirgonzo420
19th March 2013, 06:43 AM
Currently at $53.99

Ok now it's at $54.88

Ares
19th March 2013, 06:46 AM
Ok now it's at $54.88

You can thank Argentina price controls for sparking demand in bitcoins, and Cyprus getting ready to take a haircut. With a limited supply demand will dictate price.

Santa
19th March 2013, 08:35 AM
I wonder if the financial "electronic" pillage going on in Cyprus and other places like Argentina is in large part causing this current run into bitcoins.

Problem-reaction-solution.

It's true I don't know dick about cryptography and I suppose that's a part of the reason for my skepticism of this bitcoin "business model." Yeah, I'm fucking stupid, I know.

But read this quote.


Fortunately for Bitinstant and the company's customers, no personal information was obtained by the hacker — the company says it keeps all personal and transactional data offline to protect user privacy. Sadly, it wasn't as vigilant with other forms of security.

This brings to mind another ignorant question. If every buy and sell transaction occurs through an exchange like Bitinstant, what prevents these exchanges from being owned and operated by the Banksters themselves, who in that case would be the keepers of the personal and transactional data in the first place? If that were the case, they would already control every bit of the electronic information from the get go, wouldn't they?

Golden
19th March 2013, 08:42 AM
The exchange systems are the achilles heal. Achtung mania!

madfranks
19th March 2013, 09:24 AM
Last price:$60.11100

Son-of-Liberty
19th March 2013, 11:26 AM
I really don't know much about bitcoin either but I am pretty skeptical.

Nobody really knows who developed it and I can't help but think if you were the original designer why not rig it so you start with millions of bitcoins that you just don't spend. Nobody else would know they exist and you could just sit back and wait until bitcoins rise in price to $1000 each or more then you start to convert your bitcoins and bam, instant billionare off the backs of all the chumps.

Of course I don't know enough about programing to know if this is even possible but if they are anonymous and can be stored offline I don't see why there wouldn't be a way to game the system if you were the developer of the whole thing.

Ares
19th March 2013, 02:10 PM
I really don't know much about bitcoin either but I am pretty skeptical.

Nobody really knows who developed it and I can't help but think if you were the original designer why not rig it so you start with millions of bitcoins that you just don't spend. Nobody else would know they exist and you could just sit back and wait until bitcoins rise in price to $1000 each or more then you start to convert your bitcoins and bam, instant billionare off the backs of all the chumps.

Of course I don't know enough about programing to know if this is even possible but if they are anonymous and can be stored offline I don't see why there wouldn't be a way to game the system if you were the developer of the whole thing.

That's the beauty with Bitcoin, every coin in circulation points back and is authenticated with the ledger that created it. So if the creator wanted to come back with a million or so coins. The network would discard them as being fakes and not allow them into circulation. The source code is freely available here (http://www.bitcointrading.com/forum/bitcoin-clients/original-bitcoin-source-code-archives/) So if you're familiar with code you can go through and look for back doors. It's completely open source, nothing is hidden.

The bitcoin network uses SHA256 encryption. With network hashing rate of 47Thashes a sec which equals to 503.57 PetaFLOPS, making it faster than 500 of the worlds fastest super computers. The only real way to "hack" the bitcoin network is to outperform it's hash rate. Which currently is impossible with current technology.

Now get into quantum computing then it might be possible.

madfranks
19th March 2013, 02:29 PM
Of course I don't know enough about programing to know if this is even possible but if they are anonymous and can be stored offline I don't see why there wouldn't be a way to game the system if you were the developer of the whole thing.

Every transaction is independently verified by tens of thousands of separate computers in a system called the block chain. The block chain is the ledger showing every transaction in the bitcoin universe. This is what bitcoin miners do; they run software that independently tracks and verifies every transaction in the network. If a sole entity tried to add even a single bitcoin to his account without a corresponding entity sending him that bitcoin, the block chain would not verify that transaction and it would be rejected. Imagine a room with a thousand accountants tracking the same transactions and one of them tried to pull some funny stuff, the 999 other ones wouldn't verify it.

woodman
19th March 2013, 04:03 PM
Every transaction is independently verified by tens of thousands of separate computers in a system called the block chain. The block chain is the ledger showing every transaction in the bitcoin universe. This is what bitcoin miners do; they run software that independently tracks and verifies every transaction in the network. If a sole entity tried to add even a single bitcoin to his account without a corresponding entity sending him that bitcoin, the block chain would not verify that transaction and it would be rejected. Imagine a room with a thousand accountants tracking the same transactions and one of them tried to pull some funny stuff, the 999 other ones wouldn't verify it.


This stuff is way over my head. Usually when something is so complex it is open to various methods of attack. If I can't understand something, it just doesn't seem wise to me. Often the reason for complexity is to hide the truth. In the real world, the more complex an organism is, the more ways there are to circumvent it's defenses. I think this is an accident waiting to happen to those who put too much faith in it.

vacuum
19th March 2013, 04:39 PM
The value of bitcoins is so high right now that you could make a lot of money by being the first one to find a weakness.

I'm sure the code has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by many people.

Shami-Amourae
19th March 2013, 04:56 PM
This is the first time I've held absolutely 0 Bitcoins in several years.

Just saying.

woodman
19th March 2013, 04:56 PM
The value of bitcoins is so high right now that you could make a lot of money by being the first one to find a weakness.

I'm sure the code has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by many people.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I just believe that everything has it's weak spot. Weak points will be exploited.

Shami-Amourae
19th March 2013, 05:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVQZtSrnvrg

Neuro
19th March 2013, 05:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVQZtSrnvrg
Compress that chart a bit double the current price in a month and it will look like the gold price chart between 1970-1980...

http://www.sharelynx.com/chartsfixed/GC1970.gif

madfranks
19th March 2013, 07:59 PM
This is the first time I've held absolutely 0 Bitcoins in several years.

Just saying.

Please share your thoughts... You think bitcoins are about to crash, or that this is a bubble?

Shami-Amourae
19th March 2013, 08:36 PM
I honestly don't know. It should have crashed by now but hasn't. If it does crash it won't be to $2 again though since people will buy it up as it goes down, all wanting to get the next bottom. There's many people, including myself who wish we loaded the boat last time it dropped to $2. I think there's strong support in the 20s and 30s now psychologically, but that's just my own guestimation. Too many veterans are waiting on the sidelines to buy up Bitcoins when the price goes down and then there's a crap load of people who know nothing about investing who are buying since the price is going up (what most inexperienced investors do.) I've spoken with the owner of Mt Gox, a Frenchie living in Japan named Mark Karpeles (MagicalTux on IRC). He's done a lot to make sure there are no flash crashes like the last time and has done a lot of work to make the servers suddenly "work slowly" when people seem to be panic selling, if you catch my drift. He works almost 16 hours a day like me, so I believe he has a good handle on things THIS TIME. Paid CIA employees don't work that long and hard, it takes someone who really believes in the cause to do it. The real reason for the last crash I think was since a hacker fucked with the price discovery with the exchange site sending Bitcoins to the value of a penny almost instantly. Mark is the most important person in the Bitcoin community who has the most influence over price discovery. He's on the crypto-anarchist side too (I believe).

I'm hoping when the price drops next time people listen to guys like Chris Duane and they all hate Bitcoin so I can buy it. Just do the opposite of what these gurus tell you since they are almost always wrong. Typically the best time to buy is when no one wants something, and know one cares.

Personally I think Bitcoin will crash one day namely as Don points out that there will be a better cryptocurrency coming down the pike. My biggest issue with Bitcoin is how much damn data the blocks take up till your Bit Client is up to date. I think it's ridiculous and needs to be simplified somehow.

Mouse
20th March 2013, 01:20 AM
I honestly don't know. It should have crashed by now but hasn't. If it does crash it won't be to $2 again though since people will buy it up as it goes down, all wanting to get the next bottom. There's many people, including myself who wish we loaded the boat last time it dropped to $2. I think there's strong support in the 20s and 30s now psychologically, but that's just my own guestimation. Too many veterans are waiting on the sidelines to buy up Bitcoins when the price goes down and then there's a crap load of people who know nothing about investing who are buying since the price is going up (what most inexperienced investors do.) I've spoken with the owner of Mt Gox, a Frenchie living in Japan named Mark Karpeles (MagicalTux on IRC). He's done a lot to make sure there are no flash crashes like the last time and has done a lot of work to make the servers suddenly "work slowly" when people seem to be panic selling, if you catch my drift. He works almost 16 hours a day like me, so I believe he has a good handle on things THIS TIME. Paid CIA employees don't work that long and hard, it takes someone who really believes in the cause to do it. The real reason for the last crash I think was since a hacker fucked with the price discovery with the exchange site sending Bitcoins to the value of a penny almost instantly. Mark is the most important person in the Bitcoin community who has the most influence over price discovery. He's on the crypto-anarchist side too (I believe).

I'm hoping when the price drops next time people listen to guys like Chris Duane and they all hate Bitcoin so I can buy it. Just do the opposite of what these gurus tell you since they are almost always wrong. Typically the best time to buy is when no one wants something, and know one cares.

Personally I think Bitcoin will crash one day namely as Don points out that there will be a better cryptocurrency coming down the pike. My biggest issue with Bitcoin is how much damn data the blocks take up till your Bit Client is up to date. I think it's ridiculous and needs to be simplified somehow.

I am not invested in BTC's but I have been following it for about a year or more. Probably your fault. I think the annoying block sequence checking every thing from birth is actually the only way to provide the trust that is required of a real exchange note. The relentless hashing required to check a transaction's trust/legitimacy is the dirt from which the "currency" springs. The work earns a fair return and provides a necessary service. The bigger the bitblock trail the better.

Hypertiger
20th March 2013, 02:38 AM
It's just a scam.

But like all scams it looks positive at the start and negative at the end.

During the inflationary or positive phase of the lie...All believe it to be Truth.

Until the maximum potnetial inflation is reached...Then the lie that all the ignorant people believe is Truth...Is revealed to be a lie when the demand of the lie for power to sustain it's appearance as Truth to the ignorant becomes greater than the supply and the lie self destructs during the negative phase of the lie.

that is what lies do...take more power than they give to fight Truth until the lie reaches the point where it requires infinite power to sustain the war against Truth...

The key problem is that Truth is the supply of power that lies require to sustain their existance.

When a lie requires infinite power...It requires Truth to sustain it's existance...since Truth is the only source of such power

When a lie that is believed to be Truth requires Truth or infinite power to sustain it's existance...The lie self destructs since the lie can't defeat Truth...that is revelation or the lifiting of the veil...

EE_
20th March 2013, 10:41 AM
Man offers to sell house for bitcoins
Three years ago, 10,000 BTC bought two pizzas. Now that can comfortably buy a house.
by Timothy B. Lee - Mar 19 2013, 5:45pm MST

Web Culture55 An Alberta man is hoping to become the first person to sell a house for bitcoins. He's asking CAD$405,000, or its equivalent in bitcoins, for the 3.6 acre site.

"We are hoping to be the first piece of real estate sold for bitcoins," Taylor More told us by e-mail. "We think maybe this could help push the currency more mainstream."

His listing describes the property as a "quaint two bedroom bungalow" that "sits on 3.6 acres with beautiful mountain views and 110' of breathtaking Crowsnest River frontage." It includes a 2,800 square foot workshop that More says is "perfect for the handyman hobbiest and also features two additional finished bedrooms."


Enlarge / If you act fast, 6,750 BTC can get you this fine 3.6 acre property."If you had $405k I wouldn't turn you down, but if a partial or whole transaction is done using Bitcoins the price can be reduced depending on how many bitcoins you have to trade."

At the current exchange rate of $60 per bitcoin, buying a $405,000 house would cost about 6,750 BTC.

The value of bitcoins has appreciated dramatically in recent years. In one of the first Bitcoin transactions ever recorded (which took place in May 2010) a man paid 10,000 BTC for two pizzas. If he'd saved those Bitcoins instead, he could have used them to buy More's house with almost $200,000 to spare.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/man-offers-to-sell-house-for-bitcoins/

sirgonzo420
20th March 2013, 03:41 PM
Last price: $65.89

gunDriller
20th March 2013, 03:52 PM
Last price: $65.89

more digital mania - but i admit, i don't know how Bitcoins work.

but i do know that it involves high-tech, which since about Y2K has tended towards a Jew-heavy management structure.


Silver > Bitcoins.

Blink
20th March 2013, 04:19 PM
What a clever way of introducing the masses to pure digital currency. Let them think they made it up to circumvent the banker criminals and once everyones on board, crash it or take it over. South Korea is a recent good example about how easy it is to crash a system...........

Neuro
20th March 2013, 04:32 PM
What a clever way of introducing the masses to pure digital currency. Let them think they made it up to circumvent the banker criminals and once everyones on board, crash it or take it over. South Korea is a recent good example about how easy it is to crash a system...........
South Korea? Did I miss something?

sirgonzo420
20th March 2013, 04:40 PM
What a clever way of introducing the masses to pure digital currency. Let them think they made it up to circumvent the banker criminals and once everyones on board, crash it or take it over. South Korea is a recent good example about how easy it is to crash a system...........

Ya never know!

;D

I am not attached to Bitcoin, hell Bitcoin could be the Devil. I can see a future where banks are in control of Bitcoin by being in control of the miners, which could have been the purpose all along. However, as it stands, Bitcoin is more "honest" than the stock market and the FRN system.

It is funny that a community that consists primarily of IT-type people, nerds living in their parents' basements, and anarchists/libertarians, can play around with an infant "internet money", that initially had a free-market valueof $0.001 per bitcoin, and have now come to command a free-market price of $65 per bitcoin.

People have gone from living off of ramen noodles to being millionaires by running a program on their computer. It's pretty crazy actually. And these people would be the financial elite if Bitcoin were to truly "get big".

3 years ago, 10,000 BTC would buy 2 pizzas, delivered.

Today, you can buy a house for less than 10,000 BTC.

I am not advising anyone to buy/sell/hold bitcoins. I am just discussing them and periodically reporting the free-market price in FRNs.

As for my holdings, I might hold 0 bitcoins, or tens of thousands of them, but I can't have more than 21 million of 'em! ;D

joboo
20th March 2013, 04:42 PM
What a clever way of introducing the masses to pure digital currency. Let them think they made it up to circumvent the banker criminals and once everyones on board, crash it or take it over. South Korea is a recent good example about how easy it is to crash a system...........

Keep in mind the principle is the exact same as bit torrent. They are desperately trying to end that scenario with plenty of lawsuits, laws, new legislation etc...

If people ever get used to using bit coin on a daily basis, the banks will be in a very sad state.

How does one crash, or take over a decentralized phenomena is the question.

Neuro
20th March 2013, 05:08 PM
I honestly don't know. It should have crashed by now but hasn't. If it does crash it won't be to $2 again though since people will buy it up as it goes down, all wanting to get the next bottom. There's many people, including myself who wish we loaded the boat last time it dropped to $2. I think there's strong support in the 20s and 30s now psychologically, but that's just my own guestimation. Too many veterans are waiting on the sidelines to buy up Bitcoins when the price goes down and then there's a crap load of people who know nothing about investing who are buying since the price is going up (what most inexperienced investors do.) I've spoken with the owner of Mt Gox, a Frenchie living in Japan named Mark Karpeles (MagicalTux on IRC). He's done a lot to make sure there are no flash crashes like the last time and has done a lot of work to make the servers suddenly "work slowly" when people seem to be panic selling, if you catch my drift. He works almost 16 hours a day like me, so I believe he has a good handle on things THIS TIME. Paid CIA employees don't work that long and hard, it takes someone who really believes in the cause to do it. The real reason for the last crash I think was since a hacker fucked with the price discovery with the exchange site sending Bitcoins to the value of a penny almost instantly. Mark is the most important person in the Bitcoin community who has the most influence over price discovery. He's on the crypto-anarchist side too (I believe).

I'm hoping when the price drops next time people listen to guys like Chris Duane and they all hate Bitcoin so I can buy it. Just do the opposite of what these gurus tell you since they are almost always wrong. Typically the best time to buy is when no one wants something, and know one cares.

Personally I think Bitcoin will crash one day namely as Don points out that there will be a better cryptocurrency coming down the pike. My biggest issue with Bitcoin is how much damn data the blocks take up till your Bit Client is up to date. I think it's ridiculous and needs to be simplified somehow.
Interesting a hidden anarchist who likes to regulate market trading. Certainly I have no way of knowing what makes him tick, but it sounds like he is running the interests of those who have a lot of bitcoins those who started mining when it was easy, who are looking to unload at around this time, he aids them by disallowing or slowing down the plebs trading as market turns down, giving the BC aristocracy a limited supply side of the market to sell their shitcoins into. It is also interesting that you think there is a psychological barrier around $20-30 where many are waiting to buy in when the drop comes, I do believe you are correct on this assessment, but it means that the creator and a few of his pals will be able to make $100's of millions, for a couple of years of work, not bad, but it is important to realize this is a zero sum game. Their win is another's loss, and it will be those that are trusting and gullible and the greedy that loses, the fan club if you like, and many among those are the experienced bit coiners that believe $20-30 is the lower limit ready to go full in at that level. It is a pyramid scheme. Possibly the manipulated market price will go up to above a 100, before the plug is pulled, maybe even higher, but it will be pulled!

madfranks
20th March 2013, 08:12 PM
Possibly the manipulated market price will go up to above a 100, before the plug is pulled, maybe even higher, but it will be pulled!

Out of curiosity, how will the plug be pulled, and who will pull it?

vacuum
20th March 2013, 08:26 PM
Out of curiosity, how will the plug be pulled, and who will pull it?

If what is said about the block sizes increasing indefinitely to huge sizes, it may at some point become impractical for the average person to use bitcoins. Having to download terabytes of data just to buy something for $2 online wouldn't be attractive.

What would happen is that intermediaries would be set up that would take care of holding your bitcoins for you, and you just use them like a debit card is used today.

In that case it won't be as competitive anymore with other currencies, so it will probably not become the dominate currency, but the oldest and used for certain purposes only.

Then people will slowly start accepting only newer and more advanced crypto currencies because they are simply easier to deal with. The combination of third party brokers and a dwindling places to spend it will cause it to go extinct one day.

So basically the free market will determine when it's time is up.

Shami-Amourae
20th March 2013, 08:36 PM
What MagicalTux is doing is a good thing in my view. You could say he's biased for the large holders of Bitcoin, but I think that's more of a side effect of wanting people to want to invest in Bitcoin. It's in his incentive that Bitcoin becomes an established free market currency. All of the formal/corporate style businesses who have tried setting up exchanges have failed. Basically it's just a dude in an apartment hunkered down over his computer all day. The only reason he pulls it off is since he's one guy who works basically non-stop on the net. That's the same way with my virtual business. Professional corporations have tried to mimic stuff I do solo and failed miserably. It's the future of virtual business frankly where the corporation has less and less influence and power.

The plug won't be pulled. Basically you need enough people to think the price is going down so they all sell sell sell sell until people start buying like crazy and that restores confidence. I thought that it would happen at the $50 level but I was wrong, but no one could have predicted what happened in Cyprus. A lot of people in Southern Europe are buying Bitcoins, and the Bitcoin market is still relatively tiny so just a tiny percentage of a population now putting their wealth in Bitcoin pushes the price up. I would ideally buy in again in the sub $10 range, but I believe psychologically since the price has gotten so high then the new bottom is in the $20 range. I have no technical analysis or mathematical formulas to back this up. It's just my opinion based on what I've seen and based on the psychology of the people (gut feeling); however, I tend to be wrong as much as I'm right with Bitcoins. This is the closest thing we have to there being a free market.


I wouldn't buy any Bitcoins at this price unless I felt the market was stabilized and there were more things to buy with it. The exchange that I used to sell into with my business funds got shut down so I cant do the tax loophole trick anymore. Kinda sucks. Frankly Bitcoins was setup as an alternative currency, and lets be honest, it's a trading platform really. Merchants are afraid to use it since the prices are so unstable. If you wanted to see the price drop down to $1 I think you'd need to directly attack the Mt Gox website and drive the prices down by some serious hacking but goodluck with that. The security is now super beefed up to surpass those of professional banks.

Ares
20th March 2013, 08:38 PM
So basically the free market will determine when it's time is up.

Kind of like what the market is trying to do with central banks for the last decade or so yet they keep hanging on.

Shami-Amourae
20th March 2013, 08:43 PM
If what is said about the block sizes increasing indefinitely to huge sizes, it may at some point become impractical for the average person to use bitcoins. Having to download terabytes of data just to buy something for $2 online wouldn't be attractive.

What would happen is that intermediaries would be set up that would take care of holding your bitcoins for you, and you just use them like a debit card is used today.

In that case it won't be as competitive anymore with other currencies, so it will probably not become the dominate currency, but the oldest and used for certain purposes only.

Then people will slowly start accepting only newer and more advanced crypto currencies because they are simply easier to deal with. The combination of third party brokers and a dwindling places to spend it will cause it to go extinct one day.

So basically the free market will determine when it's time is up.


Yeah I personally believe that's the number one flaw with Bitcoin, but I never hear it addressed, even by the major critics (who typically don't know WTF they are talking about.) Try downloading the original Bitcoin client and downloading the blocks. You'll be lucky if you finish downloading after a week with a cable modem. Now that's with only a fringe minority of people actually using Bitcoin. If the masses tried to use it it would be impractical. That's why I think Bitcoin won't be the first successful cryptocurrency, but the father of them that will spawn newer and better cryptocurrencies. The second one of those takes hold I recommend investing quite liberally in one. You could become very, very wealthy indeed with just a few hundred dollar investment and patience...

Neuro
21st March 2013, 01:17 AM
Out of curiosity, how will the plug be pulled, and who will pull it?
The few originators of Bitcoins, those who have millions of them, will decide to get rid of them, when the prize is right...

Shami-Amourae
21st March 2013, 02:05 AM
The few originators of Bitcoins, those who have millions of them, will decide to get rid of them, when the prize is right...

Most got sold at the last rally IMO.

Neuro
21st March 2013, 03:07 AM
Most got sold at the last rally IMO.
Perhaps, do you have data on the trading volumes? I think it is unlikely that most were sold, if say the trading data would show that less than ten times of what they hold was traded in the last month leading up to the crash, I would say it is very unlikely that they sold more than half their holdings, so what would that be 50 million bitcoins, or 2 million per day, unless of course they sold them in back room deals to some bankster. But then of course situation would be worse...

Neuro
21st March 2013, 04:54 AM
Found trading data last month was 1.8 million bitcoins traded, last run-up I doubt it was that many traded. They can't have sold that many before the flash crash a few hundred thousand perhaps, out of the easily mined 5 or so million they have, unless in a back room deal to a bankster!

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_trades.html

madfranks
21st March 2013, 08:43 AM
If what is said about the block sizes increasing indefinitely to huge sizes, it may at some point become impractical for the average person to use bitcoins. Having to download terabytes of data just to buy something for $2 online wouldn't be attractive.


You don't have to download tons of data to use bitcoins. Right now you could open a new bitcoin wallet, buy a bitcoin on ebay and within a few hours you'd have it in your wallet. Then you'd have a funded wallet and you haven't downloaded a thing.

sirgonzo420
21st March 2013, 09:11 AM
Current price: $68.87


the thread title hasn't been accurate for a little while .... Bitcoin is over double silver spot.



(of course, Bitcoin is not superior to silver, but it sure is an interesting and increasingly popular piece of "experimental" software!)

madfranks
21st March 2013, 09:45 AM
Current price: $68.87


the thread title hasn't been accurate for a little while .... Bitcoin is over double silver spot.



(of course, Bitcoin is not superior to silver, but it sure is an interesting and increasingly popular piece of "experimental" software!)

I'm going to start a new thread called "The Bitcoin Tracking Thread" and move a large portion of this thread over to the new one.

Golden
21st March 2013, 09:48 AM
Ya know what hasn't been accurate for a little while? ..... F@$%ING PRICES111

chad
21st March 2013, 09:53 AM
i just don't understand paying $60 something for an electronic bit when you could buy 2 morgans for that.

madfranks
21st March 2013, 09:54 AM
I moved the bulk of the other bitcoin thread to this one, I think this thread title is a bit more fitting.

madfranks
21st March 2013, 09:57 AM
i just don't understand paying $60 something for an electronic bit when you could buy 2 morgans for that.

Try to stop thinking of bitcoins and gold/silver as equivalents, they're not. Morgans are great, but they are physical. Bitcoins are digital and give you the benefits of gold/silver in the digital world. I'm not saying it's better, it's just different.

sirgonzo420
21st March 2013, 10:22 AM
Try to stop thinking of bitcoins and gold/silver as equivalents, they're not. Morgans are great, but they are physical. Bitcoins are digital and give you the benefits of gold/silver in the digital world. I'm not saying it's better, it's just different.

Exactly.

I am not buying bitcoins at this price, but I can surely trade bitcoins obtained at a much lower price for very real, tangible silver and gold. Here is one such place to do such a thing: http://bitcoincommodities.com/

Bitcoin, since it's inception just a few years ago, has seen more than a 6,799,900% rise in FRN-value. That rise in value can be applied to all manner of physical things, including gold and silver.


EDIT: Current BTC price: $71

EDIT one hour later: Current BTC price: $74

Neuro
21st March 2013, 12:37 PM
Exactly.

I am not buying bitcoins at this price, but I can surely trade bitcoins obtained at a much lower price for very real, tangible silver and gold. Here is one such place to do such a thing: http://bitcoincommodities.com/

Bitcoin, since it's inception just a few years ago, has seen more than a 6,799,900% rise in FRN-value. That rise in value can be applied to all manner of physical things, including gold and silver.


EDIT: Current BTC price: $71

EDIT one hour later: Current BTC price: $74
This rally is going towards its logical conclusion, the price has doubled in about 2 weeks from $37, prior doubling took 6-7 weeks, from $19, next one to $148, would happen in 3-5 days, unless the spell is broken...

Remember, it is different this time, and normal rules of monetary system values don't apply to bitcoins, the fact is that all the other currencies are currently in hyperinflation vs bitcoins... ;)

mick silver
21st March 2013, 12:39 PM
again why in hell would i buy Bitcoin when i can buy gold an silver ? can anyone tell me why ?

Neuro
21st March 2013, 12:42 PM
again why in hell would i buy Bitcoin when i can buy gold an silver ? can anyone tell me why ?


No, you are a remnant of the dinosaurs!

Cebu_4_2
21st March 2013, 12:48 PM
Syncing wallet all day, gives me time to learn more about it. 29K to go. Would have downloaded the .dat but not sure how to import them so I'll wait.

vacuum
21st March 2013, 01:18 PM
again why in hell would i buy Bitcoin when i can buy gold an silver ? can anyone tell me why ?



bitcoins = currency
gold/silver = money

madfranks
21st March 2013, 01:26 PM
again why in hell would i buy Bitcoin when i can buy gold an silver ? can anyone tell me why ?



Gold and silver provide anonymous store of wealth physically; bitcoins provide anonymous store of wealth digitally.

Son-of-Liberty
21st March 2013, 01:38 PM
Never really heard or knew much about bitcoins before the last week or two. I had heard it mentioned a few times but that is it. The problem is that with the price rising exponentially like it has, it is risky to get in now. Sort of like buying silver at $45 hoping that it would break through 50 and head to $100.

It could keep running but the time to buy would have been back at $2.

Cebu_4_2
21st March 2013, 01:50 PM
Never really heard or knew much about bitcoins before the last week or two. I had heard it mentioned a few times but that is it. The problem is that with the price rising exponentially like it has, it is risky to get in now. Sort of like buying silver at $45 hoping that it would break through 50 and head to $100.

It could keep running but the time to buy would have been back at $2.

That is almost exactly what they told me when I wanted to drop a grand into GOOG as a lotto play.

madfranks
21st March 2013, 02:01 PM
This really is something else. All economic indicators point to this being classic bubble activity, but nothing like bitcoins has ever been on the market before. There is no historical trend to base prices off of, and no real floor has ever been established for them. Bitcoins have been breaking new grounds through unknown territory ever since their inception.

That being said, human nature doesn't change, but the internet allows price discovery and market changes to occur much faster than before. This mania could push bitcoins phenominally high and the crash could be devastating, all in a matter of a few weeks.

chad
21st March 2013, 02:08 PM
max keiser was on aj the other doing a big rant about bit coin and how it was going to save the world. i have to wonder if the aj army is getting in. he did like a 20 minute keiser "bitcoin! bitcoin! bitcoin!" rant.

sirgonzo420
21st March 2013, 02:09 PM
This really is something else. All economic indicators point to this being classic bubble activity, but nothing like bitcoins has ever been on the market before. There is no historical trend to base prices off of, and no real floor has ever been established for them. Bitcoins have been breaking new grounds through unknown territory ever since their inception.

That being said, human nature doesn't change, but the internet allows price discovery and market changes to occur much faster than before. This mania could push bitcoins phenominally high and the crash could be devastating, all in a matter of a few weeks.

Yeah, but even if bitcoins crashed/settled at 10 cents apiece, they would still have made about a 10,000% gain since inception!

vacuum
21st March 2013, 02:13 PM
The biggest way I see the bitcoin price collapsing is if crypto-currencies are specifically outlawed.

Son-of-Liberty
21st March 2013, 02:14 PM
Yeah I heard that segment also and if anything it made me more suspicious. Remember Max and his silver to $100 campaign how it was going to break the bankers. Well we know how that turned out. Listening to max hype bitcoin for 20 minutes just made me think of a pump and dump scheme.

Santa
21st March 2013, 02:21 PM
There might be another devious angle going on. If this thing financially destroys enough people after it crashes, the G men might decide to
outlaw the online exchanges in some fashion or another... perhaps to highlight and criminalize any crypto-anarchist
alternative currency movement entirely. Except of course, their own "properly regulated" digital currency.

Thoughts?

The defining line between fiction and reality is shrinking every day, but losing all your money on a gamble is still very real.
Be careful out there in cyber land. It's not all fun and games.

Cebu_4_2
21st March 2013, 02:30 PM
5GB downloaded just for wallet and not done. I can see this limiting a few people.

sirgonzo420
21st March 2013, 02:34 PM
5GB downloaded just for wallet and not done. I can see this limiting a few people.

If you are willing to trust a third party with your bitcoins, you can get a free wallet at https://blockchain.info/wallet/

You can send and receive bitcoins instantly without downloading anything.

Neuro
21st March 2013, 02:54 PM
max keiser was on aj the other doing a big rant about bit coin and how it was going to save the world. i have to wonder if the aj army is getting in. he did like a 20 minute keiser "bitcoin! bitcoin! bitcoin!" rant.
What's next? Jim Kramer doing shitcoins on bad money? And then when it crashes the next day Benjamin Fulford does a piece on how Ninja's stabbing the trading servers in the dick, directed by the old oriental aristocratic warlords being pissed off from not having been compensated for their $100 trillion in gold they lent out to Roosevelt during WWII...

Cebu_4_2
21st March 2013, 02:57 PM
If you are willing to trust a third party with your bitcoins,

Ahem... I think not.
5.3GB and 11K blocks to go. I'll back it all up on other drives so I don/t have to do this again.
I now need to figure out how to acquire some bitcoins.

madfranks
21st March 2013, 03:10 PM
I now need to figure out how to acquire some bitcoins.

You can buy them on an exchange, which means setting up an account, funding it with USD and then trading. OR the easiest way is to buy one on ebay, then it'll just get delivered to your wallet. But be prepared to pay a premium for ebay.

Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-1-Bitcoin-BTC-Fast-Delivery-/130872059232?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1e78952560

Ares
21st March 2013, 03:42 PM
Ahem... I think not.
5.3GB and 11K blocks to go. I'll back it all up on other drives so I don/t have to do this again.
I now need to figure out how to acquire some bitcoins.

Getting your wallet at this stage in the block chain takes a long time. You can setup an account at https://mtgox.com and you'll also need a dwolla.com account to move funds in and out of your mtgox account. Dwolla is like paypal, only they charge less. :)

joboo
21st March 2013, 04:11 PM
i just don't understand paying $60 something for an electronic bit when you could buy 2 morgans for that.

I could see it happening. I somehow knew people would eventually warm up to the concept of having X money on a USB thumb drive. Convenience of fiat from a transport perspective, and out of the hands of the bankers.

madfranks
21st March 2013, 04:50 PM
I noticed that some large retailers are now taking Paypal (Home depot). I wonder how long before retailers start taking bitcoin too?

Cebu_4_2
21st March 2013, 05:34 PM
Finally finished but the size is under 100MB, wtf took up 6GB and where did it go? Strange stuff.

Looked up data mining, wow some of these guys are seriously hooked on feeding the electric companies!

Ares
21st March 2013, 05:43 PM
Finally finished but the size is under 100MB, wtf took up 6GB and where did it go? Strange stuff.

Looked up data mining, wow some of these guys are seriously hooked on feeding the electric companies!

No kidding, look at some of the bitcoin mining rigs on YouTube. Some are absolutely insane. The 6GB I BELIEVE was the client verifying the blocks it was given. So it was a lot of back and forth with the p2p network.

mick silver
22nd March 2013, 11:11 AM
so you take your paper money that you could be using to buy food and silver with to buy bitcoins , so what have i missed . wait i have food , land . silver , gold . all the tools i need and yet to me i dont see why i would buy bitcoins . hey guys used the paper you have now to top off the stuff you need . because the goverment will stop bitcoin and you all know this . they will not lets bitcoin take from the fed , just look at the wars we all have seen in ten years

vacuum
22nd March 2013, 11:22 AM
so you take your paper money that you could be using to buy food and silver with to buy bitcoins , so what have i missed . wait i have food , land . silver , gold . all the tools i need and yet to me i dont see why i would buy bitcoins . hey guys used the paper you have now to top off the stuff you need . because the goverment will stop bitcoin and you all know this . they will not lets bitcoin take from the fed , just look at the wars we all have seen in ten years

I agree, I don't think you should "invest" in bitcoins, like you shouldn't invest in any currency.

There are three reasons you might want to buy bitcoins:

1) You see something you want to buy. Get bitcoins and buy what you want. It doesn't matter if they are $0.01 or $100 each, you just get what you need and make your purchase.

2) You want a diversified basket of money or currency in case of an emergency. So you get $500 or $1000 in bitcoins, and if you get stranded in another city/state/country, thugs steal your stuff, or whatever, you've got a few emergency dollars.

3) Speculation. This is if you are an expert on money/cryptography/banking. Or perhaps you want to gamble on something high-risk. It's just like any other speculative thing.


None of those things counts as an investment, such as food, ammo, real estate, etc. Nor is it a store of wealth like gold and silver.

Investment and wealth preservation aren't reasons you'd want bitcoins. The above three reasons, however, are why you might want them.

madfranks
22nd March 2013, 11:42 AM
I just saw this interesting quote from an article I read:


While fear and uncertainty spreads across the European banking sector, that fringy cybercurrency we’re hearing so much about, Bitcoin, shot up roughly 25% overnight. Maybe a 400%-plus increase YTD signifies a bubble…then again, parachutes tend to appreciate rather quickly when the plane begins to nose-dive.



http://lfb.org/today/deja-vu-all-over-again/

MNeagle
22nd March 2013, 10:04 PM
Man Lists Bungalow for Bitcoins (http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/man-lists-bungalow-bitcoins-115706957--abc-news-savings-and-investment.html)

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/d10_6w2t0CH5eWvfFI54Rg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzYwO2NyPTE7Y3c9NjQwO2R4PTA7ZH k9MDtmaT11bGNyb3A7aD0zNTU7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/gma/Reuters/ht_bitcoin_house_kb_130321_wmain.jpg


Taylor More is selling his family's bungalow with an asking price of $405,000 (that's Canadian dollars) or 5,521 Bitcoins. He would rather have the Bitcoins.The two bedroom room and one bath bungalow in Alberta, Canada, sits on 2.9 acres of land along the Crowsnest River. That part of the deal is easy to understand. Why More wants Bitcoins isn't.

"I just really believe in them and once I read my first article about them, I was hooked," said More, who is 22 and said he used to be a currency trader. "I can take control of my own money, I don't have to worry about the government stepping in and taking it and freezing my account."

Bitcoins are digital currency. One Bitcoin is equal to $72.50. There are no actual coins, but they have been growing in their use. Stores like Walmart even sell gift cards for Bitcoins.

"I have a few ventures that I am working on that involves Bitcoins and I am going to need a lot of Bitcoins to do them. I thought this might help Bitcoin gain some ground, once people see that you can actually buy a piece of property or a physical tangible thing," said More.

More would not specifically tell ABC News what he was working on, but did say, "Bitcoins are rather hard to get your hands on."

More's listing has only been up for a few days and there has yet to be an offer, but he is hoping that the media attention will help. "If someone had a partial payment in Bitcoins, I would be willing to negotiate, but I wouldn't turn down somebody who had cash," More said.

Charlie Shrem, CEO of BitInstant, a payment processor for Bitcoin exchanges and other merchants, describes the digital money as "both the currency unit and the payment system… It's as if cash had wings and it could fly."

"I think it would be great," Shrem said of More's real estate offer. "It would be a private transaction. He can sell his house to anyone in the world, it doesn't have to be from Canada, and it won't cost anything to move that money."

woodman
23rd March 2013, 03:26 AM
No matter how limited they are and how secure and independent they may be, I still see them as fiat. They are backed by nothing tangible.

Ares
23rd March 2013, 10:39 AM
No matter how limited they are and how secure and independent they may be, I still see them as fiat. They are backed by nothing tangible.

Fiat?? Who is forcing you to use and conduct commerce in BitCoins?

They are backed by nothing tangible? The very same thing is said about the U.S. dollar. It is both fiat (ordered by government) and is neither backed by anything tangible.

The only difference with Bitcoins is that it has a set limit, and no government can regulate it, and it is far from fiat. No one is forcing anyone to use them. It's a free market digital currency and will rise or fall on it's own merit.

sirgonzo420
23rd March 2013, 10:50 AM
No matter how limited they are and how secure and independent they may be, I still see them as fiat. They are backed by nothing tangible.

Fiat is by "official decree", and is not voluntary.

The price discovery method for Bitcoin is the free market law of supply and demand.

A "dollar" is worth a "dollar" because "government" says it is.

Bitcoin is different. And whether you like it or not, five years from now, some people might be kicking themselves because they didn't look more into it.

Of course, Bitcoin is not gold or silver. But dammit, it's still better than unlimited fiat currencies run by joo banksters.

You can buy a couple hundred FRNs worth of bitcoins at an appropriate time, wait, and then sell bitcoins for thousands of FRNs worth of gold and silver bullion.

What other medium has gone from $0.001 each to ~$70.00 each? Hell even bitcoin at one dollar each is still a stupendous rise.

EE_
23rd March 2013, 09:12 PM
A BACK DOOR INTO INTERNET CONTROL has finally been weaseled into by the Jews at the US Department of Treasury.

For no sooner did the Jew, Jacob Lew, take charge of the Treasury, controlling the Internet became his very first order of the day.

With his fellow Jew, Neal Wolin, Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, along with (yes, Jews) David Cohen/Daniel Glaser, Under Secretaries for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, Lew decided that money laundering rules should apply to all Web Money…including the growing Internet trading privacy-oriented currency known as Bitcoin.

Glaser, as policy maker for “anti-money laundering,” oversees the Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) which published this past Monday a ‘guideline’ for Internet sites that use virtual currencies such as Bitcoin to comply with the Treasury’s Bank Secrecy Act.

This Jew-inspired ‘guideline’ is aimed at fitting “de-centralized virtual currencies” into the larger regulatory regime under which government-controlled currencies of all kinds are required to operate.

Morgan Peck of Tech Talk explains that the Bank Secrecy Act requires any financial institution that can be defined as a money transmitter to register with FinCEN and help detect money laundering by keeping track of its clients and reporting ’suspicious’ activity.

Those entities that facilitate the exchange of Bitcoins for fiat currency and their online clients will have to take note. Layers of Jewish-tiered bureaucracy, filing, and reporting could soon make Internet trading in virtual currencies a still-born initiative.

Jon Russell of Next Web observes that just this month, top domain registrar Namecheap decided to accept payment in Bitcoins, while Finnish software maker Sc5 last week began allowing its staff to receive parts of their salary in the currency.

Also on the radar by the Jew-run US Treasury is Facebook Credits, which serves a possible base of more than 1 billion users, as well as Kim Dot Com’s empire of file sharing followers and the popular Reddit site, both using Bitcoin for online transactions.

A further explanation of the Treasury’s ‘guideline’ is outlined by Andrew Leonard of Salon who calls the regulation initiative a “libertarian’s nightmare.” Leonard makes the point that Bitcoin isn’t just an elegant way to create money using peer-to-peer networks and cryptography. Bitcoin is a currency with an ideology.

From the beginning, Bitcoin was envisioned as a form of monetary exchange that didn’t need third-party financial institutions or central banks or even governments to validate it or back it up.

Bitcoin is the fulfillment of a libertarian dream, a currency created out of the workings of the free market, unaffiliated with any state authority, respectful and protective of user privacy and anonymity, and designed to resist inflationary pressures.

By its very nature, Bitcoin is made for people who don’t want other people to know what they are doing.

But if the Jews at Treasury have their way, all who enjoy the use of Bitcoin will soon be deprived of the privacy and anonymity they currently enjoy.

In other words, if it works and it’s good for the people, the Jews will ruin it. View Entire Story Here, Here, Here & Here.

THE DANGER of this Jew-inspired “guideline” coming out of the Jew-controlled and run US Treasury, is three-fold:

• The users of Bitcoin and other Internet currencies will no longer enjoy the privacy connected with these mediums of exchange. Big Brother Jew will be watching every transaction made.

• The Jews will have finally gotten their freedom-hating fingers into the Internet through the back door of monitoring and regulating electronic transactions.

• The Jewish encroachment of gradualism will unfold from the drapery of monetary regulation into ‘hate purchase’ regulation (books and materials the Jews fear) and then on to “hate speech” monitoring which will give the Jews TOTAL control of the Internet and the end of exposing their lies and crimes.
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=805

mick silver
23rd March 2013, 09:18 PM
like i have said they have killed million of people over paper so dont think for a second that the gov will let this go on ... thanks ee .....see post 85

vacuum
24th March 2013, 03:46 AM
A BACK DOOR INTO INTERNET CONTROL has finally been weaseled into by the Jews at the US Department of Treasury.
So it begins.

There are a lot of countries out there. Russia, china, iran, brazil, india....I'd like to see them try to shut bitcoin down in those places too. What are they going to do? go bomb bitcoin headquarters? Create a firewall around the US? Threaten to prosecute people in bankrupt european countries for using bitcoin?

It's a game of cat and mouse now. We'll see how it turns out. It's too bad for them that they have to fight this while they are in the process of dismantling and reshaping their world money system, it's kind of a vulnerable time for them. It would have been much better if they already had all these regulations in place before they did their global collapse, or even better if they already had the new system set up.

Once they make their power play and try to prosecute someone, the bitcoin community will react to fix whatever flaws come to light.

Ares
24th March 2013, 10:28 AM
Once they make their power play and try to prosecute someone, the bitcoin community will react to fix whatever flaws come to light.

My guess is they'll take it underground. Go to darknet / deep web, and run the miners through Tor, and setup their own exchanges with Tor Hidden services. You could have the server located in the United States hosted right next to the Treasury servers in D.C. and they'd never know it.

steyr_m
24th March 2013, 11:50 AM
I believe it has the potential to break the back of big Joo-ish finance and that's why they are afraid of it. If Bitcoin gets to the point of universal acceptance where it is fully exchangeable with FRNs, $CDN, Euro, Au & Ag -- there will be no stopping it.

Anyone want to start a GSUS mining pool?

Cebu_4_2
24th March 2013, 01:31 PM
They want to tax it which will dissolve it from the fact that it has a limit and doesn't print up more.

vacuum
24th March 2013, 04:30 PM
They want to tax it which will dissolve it from the fact that it has a limit and doesn't print up more.

But they can only tax it in FRNs. They can't tax it in bitcoins, so they can't accumulate the bitcoins themselves.

FreeEnergy
24th March 2013, 08:00 PM
tagged for future read.

How dangerous is Bitcoin and any other P2P money exchange?

You can tell by a number of suicided participants.


1.
"The internet activist Aaron Swartz described a similar concept"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin



Aaron Hillel Swartz (November 8, 1986 – January 11, 2013) was an American computer programmer, writer, political organizer and Internet activist.

Swartz was involved in the development of the web feed format RSS,[2] the organization Creative Commons,[3] the website framework web.py[4] and the social news site Reddit, in which he was an equal partner after its merger with his Infogami company.[i] Swartz also focused on sociology, civic awareness and activism.
On January 11, 2013, two years after his initial arrest, Swartz was found dead in his Crown Heights, Brooklyn apartment, where he had hanged himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz




Also Related:


Gene Kan (September 6, 1976 — June 29, 2002) was a British-born Chinese American peer-to-peer file-sharing programmer who was among the first programmers to produce an open-source version of the file-sharing application that implemented the Gnutella protocol. Kan worked together with Spencer Kimball on the program called "gnubile" licensed under the GNU General Public License. Kan graduated from the University of California, Berkeley in 1997 with a major in electrical engineering and computer science.

In June 2000, he formed a distributed search engine known as InfraSearch.com. Netscape co-founder Marc Andreessen was an investor in the start-up. InfraSearch was purchased by Sun Microsystems on March 6, 2001 for $12.5M USD in Sun stock options. The acquisition became part of the JXTA project at Sun. Kan joined Sun as an employee, and continued to work with the technology.

Kan was relatively well known in internet circles for a testimony he gave in July 2000 at the Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on "Intellectual Property in the Digital Age".[1] Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich, Sony CEO Fred Ehrlich, and others also gave testimony at the hearing.

On June 29, 2002, he committed suicide. The cause of death was a single gunshot wound to the head.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Kan


Also Related: Len Sassaman , Anonymizer

Leonard Harris Sassaman (1980 – July 3, 2011) was an advocate for privacy, maintainer of the Mixmaster anonymous remailer code and remop (operator) of the randseed remailer.

Sassaman was employed as the security architect and senior systems engineer for Anonymizer. He was a PhD candidate at the Katholieke Universiteit Leuven in Belgium, as a researcher with the Computer Security and Industrial Cryptography (COSIC) research group, led by Bart Preneel. David Chaum and Bart Preneel were his advisors.

Sassaman was a well-known cypherpunk, cryptographer and privacy advocate. He worked for Network Associates on the PGP encryption software, was a member of the Shmoo Group, a contributor to the OpenPGP IETF working group, the GNU Privacy Guard project, and frequently appeared at technology conferences like DEF CON. Sassaman was the co-founder of CodeCon along with Bram Cohen, co-founder of the HotPETS workshop (with Roger Dingledine of Tor and Thomas Heydt-Benjamin), co-author of the Zimmermann–Sassaman key-signing protocol, and at the age of 21, was an organizer of the protests following the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov.

Sassaman is reported to have died on July 3, 2011.[8] Patterson reported that her husband's death was a suicide.[9][10]

A presentation given by Kaminsky at the 2011 Black Hat Briefings revealed that a testimonial in honor of Sassaman had been permanently embedded into Bitcoin's block chain.[11]


Also related: Ilya Zhitomirskiy

Ilya Zhitomirskiy (12 October 1989 – 12 November 2011)[1] was a Russian-American software developer and entrepreneur. Zhitomirskiy was a co-founder and developer of the Diaspora social network and the Diaspora free software that powers it.
On the evening of 12 November 2011, Zhitomirskiy was found dead in his San Francisco home by police responding to calls about a suspected suicide.

cpy911
24th March 2013, 08:29 PM
What is the cheapest most reliable way to exchange a few FRNs for a few Bitcoins?

Mouse
24th March 2013, 09:52 PM
What is the cheapest most reliable way to exchange a few FRNs for a few Bitcoins?


A: Get a bunch of FRN's

vacuum
24th March 2013, 10:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQPBVOwLKcM

sirgonzo420
25th March 2013, 02:15 PM
To help keep things in perspective.....


Originally posted by: laszlo
May 17, 2010, 08:35:20 PM at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.0


I'll pay 10,000 bitcoins for a couple of pizzas.. like maybe 2 large ones so I have some left over for the next day. I like having left over pizza to nibble on later. You can make the pizza yourself and bring it to my house or order it for me from a delivery place, but what I'm aiming for is getting food delivered in exchange for bitcoins where I don't have to order or prepare it myself, kind of like ordering a 'breakfast platter' at a hotel or something, they just bring you something to eat and you're happy!

I like things like onions, peppers, sausage, mushrooms, tomatoes, pepperoni, etc.. just standard stuff no weird fish topping or anything like that. I also like regular cheese pizzas which may be cheaper to prepare or otherwise acquire.

If you're interested please let me know and we can work out a deal.

Thanks,
Laszlo


Originally posted by: laszlo
June 12, 2010, 04:14:44 PM at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.0


This is an open offer by the way.. I will trade 10,000 BTC for 2 of these pizzas any time as long as I have the funds (I usually have plenty). If anyone is interested please let me know. The exchange is favorable for anyone who does it because the 2 pizzas are only about 25 dollars total, maybe 30 if you give the guy a nice tip. If you get me the upgraded extra large ones or something, I can throw in some more bitcoins, just let me know and we'll work something out.

My 1 year old daughter really enjoys pizza too! She just smears it all over her face if you give her a whole slice, but she does eventually manage to get most of it in her mouth (minus a few loose toppings of course).

http://heliacal.net/~solar/bitcoin/pizza/.t/IMG_0988.small.jpg

As of right now, the 10,000 BTC that paid for those two pizzas in May 2010 are worth about $ 758,535.44.

An amount that could buy 2 pizzas, delivered, in May 2010 is worth more than three-quarter million dollars in today's FRNs, less than three years later.

That's some fuckin' appreciation!

https://bitcoinity.org/markets/image?span=6m&size=medium

sirgonzo420
27th March 2013, 06:09 AM
Current price per bitcoin: $86.20

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

SLV^GLD
27th March 2013, 07:48 AM
Bitcoin has far outperformed PMs for me and has been a vehicle for completely eliminating my debt. It has done in a relatively short time what these forums has promised me for years PMs would do. These same forums told me Bitcoin was a complete fools' game when I started buying it at <$1USD. Been selling all the way up and have decided to hold what I have (still a few hundred BTC). I see this thing making $1,000USD within a few years (if there still is a USD then). The upside is I still have all those PMs since Bitcoin did the work they couldn't do.

Son-of-Liberty
27th March 2013, 08:23 AM
Thanks for the kick in the balls. For someone who didn't even know what a bitcoin was till a few weeks ago I feel like I missed the boat. I suppose I would feel worse if I had took a hard look at them a few years ago and decided they were a scam.

It is disturbing to watch what is going on in Cyprus and PM's are doing jack shit while bitcoin is soaring.

Ares
27th March 2013, 08:28 AM
It is disturbing to watch what is going on in Cyprus and PM's are doing jack shit while bitcoin is soaring.

It has a lot to do with manipulation. Bitcoin cannot be manipulated in the same way that silver / gold have been for almost a century now. Open Source, no central issuing authority and each transaction is recorded and verified. It leaves TPTB at a disadvantage.

Son-of-Liberty
27th March 2013, 08:46 AM
I understand why they are going up while PM's are stagnant but it doesn't really help me any. Plus I feel like buying into bitcoins now would be foolish. Normally it is wise to wait for a pullback when something has been going parabolic.

Ares
27th March 2013, 08:52 AM
I understand why they are going up while PM's are stagnant but it doesn't really help me any. Plus I feel like buying into bitcoins now would be foolish. Normally it is wise to wait for a pullback when something has been going parabolic.

I agree, I'm a bit late in getting on the BTC train as far as buying and holding any. I only have 0.5613439 BTC and that's just been from what my graphics card has been able to "mine" in 4 months of mining. So not even a full BTC yet. lol But at current prices it's still worth just a little over 40 dollars. :)

Something I want to add to my post here. The financial situation is only going to get worse. Europe is imploding, America is not far behind. If we as a specie are to continue. It will require a currency that has no central issuing authority. Taking away someone's ability to manipulate and control it's issuance is a HUGE bonus. Now whether Bitcoin will do that, that's the gamble, as I really have no idea. But it does have the potential. TPTB locked up gold / silver ages ago and manipulate it at will.

My gut tells me BTC's will go higher. My finances and being unemployed just won't allow me to take the risk to go with my gut.

Ponce
27th March 2013, 10:08 AM
Jesus H Ponce......if I had in bitcoins what I have in silver many American and Zionist poleticians I could buy, in the darkness of this world is good to see a shinning light somewhere in the distance.

I wonder how the Zionist bankers are planning on taking over this new trade way.

V

vacuum
27th March 2013, 10:15 AM
Regretfully, I don't have any BTC either. But you know what? We all benefit from it even if we don't have any ourselves. A successful crypto currency will drive the economy and real wealth of everybody. The only ones who lose are the banksters.

madfranks
27th March 2013, 10:29 AM
As is most always the case, I found out about it too late to really take advantage of it. Right now I have 0.09 something bitcoins, but I ordered a dedicated miner and am hoping to get a decent return.

Cebu_4_2
27th March 2013, 10:37 AM
As is most always the case, I found out about it too late to really take advantage of it. Right now I have 0.09 something bitcoins, but I ordered a dedicated miner and am hoping to get a decent return.

Those are some serious machines to say the least. Gives a different meaning to 'computer porn'

Ares
27th March 2013, 11:08 AM
As is most always the case, I found out about it too late to really take advantage of it. Right now I have 0.09 something bitcoins, but I ordered a dedicated miner and am hoping to get a decent return.

Same here, I ordered my dedicated miner back in January. I keep going over their forums hoping for an update. Last I've heard the first batch has been completed and are working on testing before shipping. Sadly, I'm in batch 2 or 3, cut off between the 2 is a little grey. So not sure when I'll get mine, and what the difficulty will be by the time I get it....

sirgonzo420
27th March 2013, 12:07 PM
i just don't understand paying $60 something for an electronic bit when you could buy 2 morgans for that.

because if you had bought that "electronic bit" for $60 (less than a week ago), then (today) you could turn that "electronic bit" into 3 morgans instead of the 2 that you would have been able to buy with $60 a week ago.

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 03:14 PM
Bitcoin has far outperformed PMs for me and has been a vehicle for completely eliminating my debt. It has done in a relatively short time what these forums has promised me for years PMs would do. These same forums told me Bitcoin was a complete fools' game when I started buying it at <$1USD. Been selling all the way up and have decided to hold what I have (still a few hundred BTC). I see this thing making $1,000USD within a few years (if there still is a USD then). The upside is I still have all those PMs since Bitcoin did the work they couldn't do.

I'm personally happy for you, but I'm just now hearing this? :cool:

Neuro
27th March 2013, 03:24 PM
Same here, I ordered my dedicated miner back in January. I keep going over their forums hoping for an update. Last I've heard the first batch has been completed and are working on testing before shipping. Sadly, I'm in batch 2 or 3, cut off between the 2 is a little grey. So not sure when I'll get mine, and what the difficulty will be by the time I get it....
Don't worry you'll get your 'miner' after the market has crashed, within days by the look of it...

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 03:35 PM
I agree, I'm a bit late in getting on the BTC train as far as buying and holding any. I only have 0.5613439 BTC and that's just been from what my graphics card has been able to "mine" in 4 months of mining. So not even a full BTC yet. lol But at current prices it's still worth just a little over 40 dollars..

Well, that's what I was saying in the post earlier. Let's set up a GSUS pool and mine what we can before those ASIC machines are out. I have the tech ability.... and I'd even do it on my home machine [my network is slow though] but I'd like to see some interest....

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 03:40 PM
An addendum to my last post.I don't know if it's heavy trading or what, but my BTC wallet is on it's fourth [!!!!] day of syncing. That needs to be done before any mining can be done.

Neuro
27th March 2013, 03:59 PM
An addendum to my last post.I don't know if it's heavy trading or what, but my BTC wallet is on it's fourth [!!!!] day of syncing. That needs to be done before any mining can be done.
Don't worry the crypto anarchist is on your case...

Santa
27th March 2013, 04:32 PM
I bought $100 worth back when they were at $.02, mainly to purchase some Kush on the Silk Road. But I chickened out.

So I'm in Bejing right now trying to find someone on the local Craigslist who will exchange them for gold.
Then I plan on buying a boat to smuggle the gold back into the US, along with a nice Szechuan wife to do my laundry for me. ;D

madfranks
27th March 2013, 04:44 PM
I bought $100 worth back when they were at $.02, mainly to purchase some Kush on the Silk Road. But I chickened out.

So I'm in Bejing right now trying to find someone on the local Craigslist who will exchange them for gold.
Then I plan on buying a boat to smuggle the gold back into the US, along with a nice Szechuan wife to do my laundry for me. ;D

$100 / $0.02 = 5000 bitcoins. So you have 5000 bitcoins? You're rich!

Ares
27th March 2013, 04:45 PM
$100 / $0.02 = 5000 bitcoins. So you have 5000 bitcoins? You're rich!

lol no kidding, you going to be selling any? :-D

Ares
27th March 2013, 04:51 PM
Well, that's what I was saying in the post earlier. Let's set up a GSUS pool and mine what we can before those ASIC machines are out. I have the tech ability.... and I'd even do it on my home machine [my network is slow though] but I'd like to see some interest....

Yeah I'd be interested in joining the pool. Currently I am a member of www.bitcoinpool.com running phoenix on a cheap ass ATI graphics card at 70M/Hashes a sec. At current difficulty and hash rate it would take me 5 years to mine a bitcoin with that one card lol.

I have the bandwidth and technical ability to assist with the setup as well as a Dell PowerEdge 1950 server that's not currently being used. But it draws about 600 watts so I really don't leave it running. Have ESXi on it just hosting a couple OS's for testing purposes.

Santa
27th March 2013, 05:02 PM
$100 / $0.02 = 5000 bitcoins. So you have 5000 bitcoins? You're rich!

Lol... I'm rich in imagining. At least I don't need Bitcoins for that. :)

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 05:14 PM
Yeah I'd be interested in joining the pool. Currently I am a member of www.bitcoinpool.com (http://www.bitcoinpool.com) running phoenix on a cheap ass ATI graphics card at 70M/Hashes a sec. At current difficulty and hash rate it would take me 5 years to mine a bitcoin with that one card lol.

I have the bandwidth and technical ability to assist with the setup as well as a Dell PowerEdge 1950 server that's not currently being used. But it draws about 600 watts so I really don't leave it running. Have ESXi on it just hosting a couple OS's for testing purposes.

I'm on a RADEON 7950

Ares
27th March 2013, 05:27 PM
I'm on a RADEON 7950

Radeon 7570 here, so you'll get about 400-500m/hases with that card. Very nice.

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 06:17 PM
Radeon 7570 here, so you'll get about 400-500m/hases with that card. Very nice.

If thing go well, I may add a 2nd or 3rd card

Ares
27th March 2013, 06:20 PM
If thing go well, I may add a 2nd or 3rd card

You'd probably be better to invest in an ASIC miner. For the money they can't be beat. That is if they can start shipping them anytime soon. Avalon ASIC has shipped batch 1, but they deal in much smaller volume. Around 300 per batch.

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 06:31 PM
I was thinking about BTC when I was just out to get some beers. I was wondering how long before the inventors or the guys who initiated it are found to commit suicide, suddenly get cancer, or are killed in a mysterious car crash.....

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 06:33 PM
You'd probably be better to invest in an ASIC miner. For the money they can't be beat. That is if they can start shipping them anytime soon. Avalon ASIC has shipped batch 1, but they deal in much smaller volume. Around 300 per batch.

I think by the time I get ahold of one, the big money will be gone. That's why I'm trying to get a pool going before they are out in big numbers.....

Ares
27th March 2013, 06:39 PM
I think by the time I get ahold of one, the big money will be gone. That's why I'm trying to get a pool going before they are out in big numbers.....

eh maybe, maybe not. I've done the profitability calculator and increased it by a factor of 100, and I still make a profit. Granted not nearly as much but it still generates coins.

http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

Cebu_4_2
27th March 2013, 08:00 PM
An addendum to my last post.I don't know if it's heavy trading or what, but my BTC wallet is on it's fourth [!!!!] day of syncing. That needs to be done before any mining can be done.

My wallet posta are before your post, took about 6 hours I think. Stopped paying attention and then the 6 gigs disappeared... then I changed motherboards and drives so I'm fubarred unless the backup works.

sirgonzo420
27th March 2013, 08:04 PM
An addendum to my last post.I don't know if it's heavy trading or what, but my BTC wallet is on it's fourth [!!!!] day of syncing. That needs to be done before any mining can be done.

Are you using the latest version of the original Bitcoin client?

sirgonzo420
27th March 2013, 08:08 PM
I was thinking about BTC when I was just out to get some beers. I was wondering how long before the inventors or the guys who initiated it are found to commit suicide, suddenly get cancer, or are killed in a mysterious car crash.....

They would have to be found first....

Satoshi Nakomoto (an alias) always used Tor and kept very private. Not too many people know who he is.

Cebu_4_2
27th March 2013, 08:09 PM
I think by the time I get ahold of one, the big money will be gone. That's why I'm trying to get a pool going before they are out in big numbers.....


I was thinking about BTC when I was just out to get some beers. I was wondering how long before the inventors or the guys who initiated it are found to commit suicide, suddenly get cancer, or are killed in a mysterious car crash.....

As I mentioned long ago in this thread... That's the type of stuff they said when I wanted to buy a 1000.00 dollar GOOG lotto play. Now I just wish I had a 1000.00 to pay back bills.

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 08:13 PM
After seeing men who oppose the system being killed off, i.e. hitler, kadaffi [how DO you spell his name?] saddam hussein, chavez, etc. He is very aware/awoke. Even though I won't get rich, it will be good for humanity if this does take off.

Cebu_4_2
27th March 2013, 08:30 PM
I

Got nice tits.

steyr_m
27th March 2013, 09:45 PM
lol, i'm opposed to porn in general, but love the pic.

Cebu_4_2
27th March 2013, 10:06 PM
lol, i'm opposed to porn in general, but love the pic.

Agreed, classy not porn. Beautiful lady being riskae.

steyr_m
28th March 2013, 11:54 AM
Agreed, classy not porn. Beautiful lady being riskae.

that being said, I like your pic too -- who wouldda thought

vacuum
28th March 2013, 12:24 PM
It's over 3x the price of silver now

TheNocturnalEgyptian
28th March 2013, 12:25 PM
Bitcoins closer to $100 USD

http://www.businessinsider.com/price-of-a-bitcoin-passes-90-dollars-2013-3?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2Falleyinsider%2Fsili con_alley_insider+%28Silicon+Alley+Insider%29

steyr_m
28th March 2013, 12:43 PM
I think I'll be cashing in some Au/Ag for some BTC today....

Shami-Amourae
28th March 2013, 12:46 PM
I think I'll be cashing in some Au/Ag for some BTC today....

Be careful chasing a rally, that's how you get burned.

Cebu_4_2
28th March 2013, 01:45 PM
If I bought in today they would shut the internet off.

Look at the 6 month chart!

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

steyr_m
28th March 2013, 03:45 PM
Be careful chasing a rally, that's how you get burned.

Ok, when is a good time you think? I'm usually not the type to look at markets too much, if I have the $$$ I usually just buy. I've held off before on Au/Ag and ended up just seeing the price continuing to rise.

vacuum
28th March 2013, 03:48 PM
I wouldn't have a problem buying some right now. Not a ton of it, but at this point only 1% of people even know that bitcoin exists.

steyr_m
28th March 2013, 03:52 PM
Holy crap, it is dropping..... Thanks for the chart...

I just cashed in 80 ounces of silver....

Cebu_4_2
28th March 2013, 04:15 PM
From 94 to 75 in 3 hours...

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

steyr_m
28th March 2013, 04:20 PM
From 94 to 75 in 3 hours...

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

I think a lot of people buying on the dip, I'll have to see where it goes. If it goes down to 60-65, I'll buy

steyr_m
28th March 2013, 04:21 PM
Wow, someone just bought 545.33

Cebu_4_2
28th March 2013, 05:48 PM
Wow, someone just bought 545.33

In daytrading I would always place real low bids and real high sells in case someone made a typo. Saw it happen daily but I never got so lucky. Whoever did that buy at 545.33 is not feeling well at the moment. They probably wanted the bid to be 54.533, shouldn't be drinking and trading ;-]

vacuum
28th March 2013, 06:09 PM
Maybe they just wanted to move $43k out of cyprus?

steyr_m
28th March 2013, 07:42 PM
Maybe they just wanted to move $43k out of cyprus?

The guy I was going to buy from suddenly isn't around now that the market is down. anyone know a reputable place to buy?

Ares
28th March 2013, 07:46 PM
The guy I was going to buy from suddenly isn't around now that the market is down. anyone know a reputable place to buy?

I have an account at https://mtgox.com, you'll also need to set up a dwolla (https://www.dwolla.com/) account to move money to and from your mtgox account. If you find someone who's selling at a decent price let me know. :)

sirgonzo420
28th March 2013, 07:51 PM
there is https://coinbase.com/ too now.

I've never used them, but you link a bank account and buy bitcoins directly from them, and then you can transfer bitcoins from your coinbase account to your own secure, backed up wallet on your computer.

Shami-Amourae
29th March 2013, 12:35 AM
The guy I was going to buy from suddenly isn't around now that the market is down. anyone know a reputable place to buy?

Avoid buying/selling from anything other than reputable exchanges like Mt Gox. I did a private transaction once and the person claimed the money was stolen and got a charge back and I lost my Bitcoins and $$$.

To your other question I have no clue where the top is since I sold @ $44 thinking it was the top, then the Cyprus thing happened. It's just a good rule of thumb not to chase rallies. I can't make any predictions at this point since I've literally never seen anything like this in my life. This is groundbreaking stuff. The best time to buy Bitcoin was when it was $2 after the $30 peak when everyone was laughing at it. When everyone is against something it's either time to load up or just a stupid thing. You have to use you judgement and do research to figure out these things. If we were that smart, we'd all be rich though right?

Bitcoin is clearly the best investment of the decade.

Bitcoin could go to $1 or $1000 by next month. You can't predict anything with it with this volatility

steyr_m
29th March 2013, 08:52 AM
Avoid buying/selling from anything other than reputable exchanges like Mt Gox. I did a private transaction once and the person claimed the money was stolen and got a charge back and I lost my Bitcoins and $$$.

To your other question I have no clue where the top is since I sold @ $44 thinking it was the top, then the Cyprus thing happened. It's just a good rule of thumb not to chase rallies. I can't make any predictions at this point since I've literally never seen anything like this in my life. This is groundbreaking stuff. The best time to buy Bitcoin was when it was $2 after the $30 peak when everyone was laughing at it. When everyone is against something it's either time to load up or just a stupid thing. You have to use you judgement and do research to figure out these things. If we were that smart, we'd all be rich though right?

Bitcoin is clearly the best investment of the decade.

Bitcoin could go to $1 or $1000 by next month. You can't predict anything with it with this volatility

Yeah, I missed the boat for sure. After thinking about a post I made with SLV^GLD I think I did look into BTC one hazy drunken night, and I wanted to get into it and put it on the back-burner. It never made it to the front-burner.... Oh well, sucks to be me. I thought Au/Ag was the way to go -- but have been sitting on my stack waiting for it "to go to the moon" for awhile now. I cashed in ~80 ounces of silver, and I'm gonna see where the cards fall

Ponce
29th March 2013, 09:41 AM
The same will happen with silver when it starts to go up......I'll go, let's say, to $42.50 faster than hell and many will sell right away thinking that next it will go down .....but then......it will keep on going to $57.48 and so on.

First post of the day.......good morning to one and all.

V

steyr_m
29th March 2013, 10:12 AM
The same will happen with silver when it starts to go up......I'll go, let's say, to $42.50 faster than hell and many will sell right away thinking that next it will go down .....but then......it will keep on going to $57.48 and so on.

First post of the day.......good morning to one and all.

V

Morning my favourite Cuban....

I've seen it shoot up to almost $50, and then see it get smacked down again...

Cebu_4_2
29th March 2013, 10:36 AM
Morning my favourite Cuban....

I've seen it shoot up to almost $50, and then see it get smacked down again...

As with any paper stock once there is a surge in selling it will drop. Self regulating is good because you can buy the dip. Same goes with BTC, I don't see it falling until it gets regulated and as a publicly traded fund I think there is a good chance the joos get their fingers into it.

Ponce
29th March 2013, 10:55 AM
That's a BIG mistake that many will be doing, today will never be like yesterday as tomorrow will not be like today...the tomorrow to come will be like the changes that we had when we went into the nuclear age.

Bitcoin Mythology: Red-herrings and Bullshit
By: malterwitty

Those that encourage you to utilize the new cyber-currency called bitcoin may be well-intentioned, and indeed many bitcoin advocates are also monetary metal enthusiasts. Although there is a strong suspicion for some regarding bitcoin, I’m philosophical towards it, although I must stress that I have no interest in it myself.

However, as many have stated prior to my rantings here, bitcoin is merely binary code and has no intrinsic value whatsoever. Furthermore, it would appear to have pseudo-PONZI scheme qualities in which the early adopters are rewarded and the later-joining participants gaining less as time unfolds. Bitcoin has apparently increased in price by 2000% in two years; does anyone reading this believe this trend will continue?


V

Cebu_4_2
29th March 2013, 02:40 PM
Bitcoin Value Soars As Europeans Seek Private-Sector Currency To Protect Their Wealth http://sayanythingblog.com/files/2013/03/btcpile1-300x200.jpg

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Written By:
Rob Port (http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/author/admin/)
Mar 29, 2013
10:16am




Who would have thought, even a few years ago, that something like this would be happening (http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/29/covered-at-reason-247-bitcoin-now-a-bill?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FHitandRun+%28Reason+ Online+-+Hit+%26+Run+Blog%29)?

The cryptocurrency bitcoin is becoming increasingly popular. All bitcoins now in circulation (there are about 10.9 million of them) are now worth more than a billion dollars. The debt crisis in Cyprus is being cited as one of the reasons that bitcoin is exploding in value as more Europeans seek ways to keep the government away from their money.
Last week the value of Bitcoin increased 30% (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-20/spain-bitcoin-run-has-started), with observers saying the Cyprus money-grab was the reason.
It’s hard to argue with the desire of citizens to protect their wealth from kleptocratic governments looking to fuel never-ending spending growth. The question is, how long until Bitcoin is targeted for take down by governments not happy with currency competition?
Tags: bitcoin (http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/tag/bitcoin/)
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Rob Port
Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.
Email Rob (rob@sayanythingblog.com) • @robport (http://twitter.com/robport) • Posts by Rob (http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/author/admin/)


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http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=505020115 Mike Peterson
Bitcoin stands to shatter the monopoly maintained by central bankers around the world. We may witness an uprooting of their control, however… United States has just added “digital currency” to their definition of money laundering. A few years ago, the man behind the “Liberty dollar” was arrested and is still serving in jail for just that. However, the difference with Bitcoin is that, it’s decentralized and spread out. Even if some hacker comes in and steals a large amount, he cannot possibly take it all at once.
They may not be able to effectively stop Bitcoin because there isn’t a central source to shut-down.
Bitcoin just might be the revolution this world needs….



headward
There’s nothing to target with bitcoin. That’s why it was created. Nobody to sue, jail, or drone strike. Bitcoin is all decentralized and is peer-to-peer. The only way the governments would be able to steal all the bitcoins or break the encryption and flood the market.



JoeMN
So what is all the fuss about ?
After already being taxed at over 50 percent, we place what’s left in the bank and are rewarded with 0 percent interest, plus now with a virtual guarantee it will be either outright stolen, or devalued out of existence
What’s not to like ?



http://twitter.com/NARNfan Saturdays & Sundays
I don’t know what the exact analogy is, but if they ever start talking about this in a way that highlights the legal tender law issue, it’s going to be a big problem for someone.

Cebu_4_2
30th March 2013, 03:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgnu5B1SJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgnu5B1SJM

vacuum
30th March 2013, 10:02 PM
Criticism of bitcoin by Karl Denninger. I hate to say it, but he has some valid points, especially the ones about the transaction history.







BitCon: Don't (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219284)
Ok, I've been asked enough times, here it is -- my view and analysis of "Bitcoin", which I have taken to calling "Bitcon." That probably deserves an explanation....
Let's first define what an ideal currency would be. Currency serves two purposes; it allows me to express a preference for one good or service over another, and it allows me to express time preference (that is, when I acquire or consume a good or service.)
All currencies must satisfy at least one of these purposes, and an ideal currency must satisfy both.
The good and service preference is what allows you to, possessing a dozen eggs from a chicken, to obtain a gallon of gasoline without finding someone who has gasoline and wants eggs. That is, it is the ability to use the currency as a fungible intermediary between two goods and services, one of which you possess and the other of which you desire. Without this function in an economy you have only barter and poor specialization, with it you have excellent specialization and a much-more-diverse economic picture.
Time preference is the ability to choose to perform a service or sell a good now but obtain and consume the other part of the transaction for yourself later. With a perfect currency time preference has no finger on the scale; that is, the currency neither appreciates or depreciates over time against a reasonably-constant basket of goods and services. Since technological advancement tends to make it easier to produce "things" in real terms, a perfect currency reflects this and makes time preference inherently valuable. This in turn forces the producers of goods and services to innovate in order to attract your economic surplus from under the mattress and into their cash registers, since not spending your economic surplus is in fact to your advantage. Today's fiat currencies intentionally violate the natural time preference of increasing productivity, but even yesterday's metallic standards did a poor job of representing it. The problem here is the State, which always seeks (like most people) to get something for nothing and what it winds up doing instead (since getting something for nothing is impossible) is effectively stealing.

Unfortunately Bitcoin, as I will explain in detail, also does a*****-poor job of satisfying either of these requirements.

But before I get to that, I want to first demolish the argument for using it that is going around in various circles and media these days -- the idea that it is stateless (that is, without a State Sponsor) and this is somehow good, in that it allows the user to evade the tentacles of the State.

This is utterly false and, if you're foolish enough to believe it and are big enough to be worth making an example of you will eventually wind up in prison -- with certainty.
All currencies require some means of validation. That is, when you and I wish to transact using a currency I have to be able to know that you're not presenting a counterfeit token to me. Gold became popular because it was fairly difficult to "create" (you had to find it and dig it out of the ground) and it was reasonably-easy to validate. The mass and volume were easily verified and other materials of similar mass and volume had wildly-disparate physical properties and could be easily distinguished. (The recent claims of "salted" bars with tungsten notwithstanding!) With only a scale and a means of measuring displacement of a known thing (e.g. water) I could be reasonably-certain that if you presented to me something claiming to be one ounce of gold that it in fact was one ounce of gold. It therefore was "self-validating."
Likewise, dollar bills are reasonably self-validating. I can observe one and if it appears to be a dollar bill, feels correct and has the security features I can be reasonably certain that it is not counterfeit. The Secret Service can determine with a fairly high degree of certainty (and very quickly too) whether a particular bill is real as they can verify the serial number was actually issued and that a bunch of the same serial numbers are not being seen in circulation, but for ordinary commerce this is not necessary; the bill itself has enough unique features so for ordinary purposes it is self-validating.
Bitcoin and other digital currencies are different -- they're just a string of bits. To validate a coin, therefore, I must know that the one you are presenting to me is unique, that it wasn't just made up by you at random but in fact is a valid coin (you were either transferred it and the chain is intact or you personally "mined" it, a computationally-expensive thing to do), and has not been spent by you somewhere else first.
In order to do this the system that implements the currency must maintain and expose a full and complete record of each and every transfer from the origin of that particular coin forward!
This is the only way I can know that nobody else was presented the same token before I was, and that the last transfer made of that token was to you. I must know with certainty that both of these conditions are true, and then to be able to spend that coin I must make the fact that I hold it and you transferred it to me known to everyone as well.
Now consider the typical clandestine transaction -- Joe wishes to buy a bag of pot, which happens to be illegal to transact. He has Bitcoins to buy the pot with. He finds a dealer willing to sell the pot despite it being illegal to do so, and transfers the coins to the dealer. The dealer must verify the block chain of the coins to insure that he is not being given coins that were already spent on gasoline or that Joe didn't counterfeit them, and then he transfers the pot to Joe. There is now an indelible and permanent record of the transfer of funds and that record will never go away.
This creates several problems for both Joe and the dealer. The dealer can (and might) take steps such as using "throw-away" wallets to try to unlink the transfer from his person, but that's dangerous. In all jurisdictions "structuring" transactions to evade money laundering or reporting constraints is a separate and unique crime and usually is a felony. Therefore, the very act of trying to split up transactions or use of "throw-away" wallets in and of itself is likely to be ruled a crime, leaving any party doing that exposed to separate and distinct criminal charges (along with whatever else they can bust you for.)

Second, due to the indelible nature of the records you're exposed for much longer that with traditional currencies to the risk of a bust and in many cases you might be exposed for the rest of your life. In particular if there is a tax evasion issue that arises you're in big trouble because there is no statute of limitations on willful non-reporting of taxes in the United States, along with many other jurisdictions. Since the records never go away your exposure, once you engage in a transaction that leads to liability, is permanent.
Third, because Bitcoin is not state-linked and thus fluctuates in value there is an FX tax issue. Let's say you "buy" Bitcoins (whether for cash or in exchange for a good or service you provide) at a time when they have a "value" of $5 each against the US dollar. You spend them when they have a "value" of $20 each. You have a capital gain of $15. At the time of the sale you have a tax liability too, and I'm willing to bet you didn't keep track of it or report it. That liability never goes away as it was wilfully evaded and yet the ability to track the transaction never goes away either!
Worse, most jurisdictions only permit the taking of a capital loss against other gains, and not against ordinary income taxes. This really sucks because it's a "heads you pay tax, tails you get screwed" situation. This is the inherent problem that gold and other commodities have as "inflation hedges"; the government always denominates its taxes in nominal dollars, not inflation-adjusted ones. The only currency against which there is no FX tax exposure is the one the government you live under uses and denominates its taxes in. That is why the government's issued currency will always be the preferred medium of exchange irrespective of all other competing currencies.
Incidentally, all of this exposure which you take with Bitcoin is very unlike transacting a bag of pot for a $100 bill -- or a gold coin. Unless you're caught pretty much "in the act" once the pot is smoked and the dealer spends the $100 the odds of an ex-post-facto investigation being able to disclose what happened and tie you to the event fades to near-zero.
This never happens with a Bitcoin transaction -- ever.
If that dealer is caught some time later, but still within the statute of limitations for the original offense, you could get tagged. And if the statute of limitations has expired you're still not in the clear if you had a capital gain on the transaction.
There isn't any way to avoid these facts -- they're structural in all digital currencies. And they don't just apply to buying or selling drugs -- they apply to any act that is intended to evade a government's currency or transaction controls. The very thing that makes Bitcoin work, the irrefutable knowledge that a coin is "good" predicated on digital cryptography, is the noose that will go around your neck at the most-inappropriate time.
Those who are using Bitcoin as a means to try to foil currency controls or state prohibitions on certain transactions are asking for a criminal indictment not only for the original evasion act itself but also the possibility of a money-laundering indictment on top of it, and the proof necessary to hang you in a court of law is inherently present in the design of the currency system!
Now let's talk about the other problems generally with all such currency systems in terms of an ideal currency and how Bitcoin stacks up.
First, the ability to use Bitcoin to express good and service preference.
Here the fundamental problem of wide acceptance comes into view. This is the problem that the proponents of the system are most-able to address through various promotional activities. Unfortunately it also leads to deception -- either by omission or commission -- of the flaw just discussed. To the extent that the popularity of the currency is driven by a desire to "escape" state control promotion of that currency on those grounds when in fact you are more likely to get caught (and irrefutably so!) than using conventional banknotes is an active fraud perpetrated upon those who are insufficiently aware of how a cryptocurrency works.
Cryptocurrencies have a secondary problem in that because they are not self-validating there is a time delay between your proposed transaction using a given token and when you can know that the token is valid. Bitcoin typically takes a few minutes (about 10) to gain reasonable certainty that a given token is good, but quite a bit longer (an hour or so) to know with reasonable certainty that it is good. That is, it is computationally reasonable to believe after 10 minutes or so that the chain integrity you are relying on is good. It approaches computational impracticality after about an hour that the chain is invalid.
This is not a problem where ordering of a good or service and fulfillment is separated by a reasonable amount of time, but for "point of transaction" situations it is a very serious problem. If you wish to fill up your tank with gasoline, for example, few people are going to be willing to wait for 10 minutes, say much less an hour, before being permitted to pump the gas -- or drive off with it. This makes such a currency severely handicapped for general transaction use in an economy, and that in turn damages goods and service preference -- the ability to use it to exchange one good or service for another. What's worse is that as the volume of transactions and the widespread acceptance rises so does the value of someone tampering with the block chain and as such the amount of time you must wait to be reasonably secure against that risk goes up rather than down.
Then there is what I consider to be Bitcoin's fatal flaw -- the inherent design and de-coupling of the currency from the obligation of sovereigns. Yes, obligation -- not privilege.
Bitcoins are basically cryptographic "solutions." The design is such that when the system was initialized it was reasonably easy to compute a new solution, and thus "mine" a coin. As each coin is "mined" the next solution becomes more difficult. The scale of difficulty was set up in such a fashion that it is computationally infeasable using known technology and that expected to be able to be developed in the foreseeable future to reach the maximum number of coins that can be in circulation. Since each cryptographic solution is finite and singular, and each one gets progressively harder to discern, those who first initiated Bitcoin were rewarded with a large number of easily-mined coins for a very cheap "investment" while the computational difficulty of "extracting" each additional one goes up.
That means that if you were one of the early adopters you get paid through the difficulty of those who attempt to mine coins later! That is, your value increases because the later person's expenditure of energy increases rather than through your own expenditure of energy. If that sounds kind of like a pyramid scheme, it's because it is very similar to to how the "early adopters" in all pyramid schemes get a return -- your later and ever-increasing effort for each subsequent unit of return accrues far more to the early adopter than it does to you!
The other problem that a cryptocurrency has is that it possesses entropy.
Entropy is simply the tendency toward disorder (that is, loss of value.) A car, left out in the open, exhibits this as it rusts away. Gold has very low entropy, in that it is almost-impossible to actually destroy it. It does not oxidize or react with most other elements and as such virtually all of the gold ever dug out of the ground still exists as actual gold.
Fiat currencies, of course, have entropy in both directions because they can be emitted and withdrawn at will. We'll get to that in a minute, and it's quite important to understand.
Bitcoin exhibits irreversible entropy. A coin that is "lost", that is, which the current possessor loses control over either by physically losing their wallet or the key to it, can never be recovered. That cryptographic sequence is effectively and permanently abandoned since there is no way for the entity who currently has possession of it to pass it on to someone else. This is often touted as a feature in that it inevitably is deflationary, but whether that's good or bad remains to be seen. It certainly is something that those who tout the currency think is good for the value of what they hold, but the irreversible loss of value can also easily lead people to abandon the use of the currency in which case its utility value to express goods and service preference is damaged, quite-possibly to the point of revulsion.
This is not true, incidentally, for something like a gold coin. The coin can be lost or stolen but unless it's lost over the side of a boat at irretrievable depth it can be recovered and the person who recovers it can spend it. What constitutes "irretrievable depth" has a great deal to do with exactly how many coins might be there too -- what's impractical for one coin is most-certainly not when the potential haul reaches into the thousands of pounds!
I mentioned above about fiat currencies being able to be issued and withdrawn. There is often much hay made about the principle of seigniorage, which is the term for the "from thin air" creation of value that a state actor obtains in creating tokens of money. Seigniorage is simply the difference in represented value between the cost of emitting the token (in the case of paper money, the paper, security features and ink) and the "value" represented in the market. There is much outrage directed at the premise of fiat currency in this regard but nearly all of it is misplaced because people do not understand that in a just and proper currency system the benefit of seigniorage comes with the responsibility for it as well, and it is supposed to be bi-directional.
That is, in order for time preference to be neutrally expressed, less the natural deflationary tendency from productivity improvement, the government entity issuing currency gets the benefit of seigniorage when the economy is expanding. But -- during times of economic contraction they also get the duty to withdraw currency (or credit) so as to maintain the same balance, as otherwise the consequence is inflation -- that is, a generalized rise in the price level and the destruction of the common person's purchasing power.
That this is honored in the breach rather than the observance does not change how these functions are supposed to work, any more than the fact that we have bank robbers means we shouldn't have banks. This, fundamentally, is why currency schemes like Bitcoin will never replace a properly functioning national currency and are always at risk of becoming worthless without warning should such a currency system arise, even ignoring the potential for legal (or extra-legal) attack.
Simply put there is no obligation to go along with the privilege that the originators of a crypto-currency scheme have left for themselves -- the ability to profit without effort by the future efforts of others who engage in the mining of coins.
Those who argue that state actors creating currencies get the same privilege are correct, but those state actors also have the countervailing duty to withdraw that currency during economic contractions associated with their privilege, whether they properly discharge that duty or not.
For these reasons I do not now and never will support Bitcoin or its offshoots, nor will I accept and transact in it in commerce. I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it.
The latter is, in my opinion, unworthy of my involvement.

Carl
30th March 2013, 10:51 PM
Great post vacuum, thanks.

Ares
31st March 2013, 07:08 AM
Criticism of bitcoin by Karl Denninger. I hate to say it, but he has some valid points, especially the ones about the transaction history

Keep in mind, that this is the same guy who believes "Cash is king". Bitcoin is a tool, is it perfect? Nope, don't think humans can invent a medium of exchange that is perfect. That's why the creator gave us Gold and Silver. :)

The transaction log is a necessary evil the trick is setting up multiple wallets to hide your true / public bitcoin wallet. I have multiple wallets and trying to decide which one i want to make my public address. To make it even more interesting, you can use a program called AdvOR (Advanced Onion Routing) to capture and direct the network traffic over Tor to mask your IP for your hidden wallet.

The trick is knowing the mediums weakness and to correct them on your own. Some could argue that the transaction log is it's greatest strength. Name me a single bank institution today that will let you view their transaction logs or book entries without a government issued warrant.

madfranks
31st March 2013, 07:39 AM
I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it

It was a pretty good article until this last sentence. I think this ^^ is the futile effort.

Carl
31st March 2013, 09:02 AM
Some day, people will get tired of accepting nothing for their goods and labor...

Ponce
31st March 2013, 10:01 AM
You defend yourself with your Bible, I'll do it with my gun.......as the old saying goes " God helps those who help themselves"

V

Horn
31st March 2013, 01:48 PM
You defend yourself with your Bible, I'll do it with my gun.......as the old saying goes " God helps those who help themselves"

V

You should start a Gold & Silver Bitcoin, Ponce.

You could then say "Yes, I own them" :)

vacuum
31st March 2013, 05:29 PM
Keep in mind, that this is the same guy who believes "Cash is king". Bitcoin is a tool, is it perfect? Nope, don't think humans can invent a medium of exchange that is perfect. That's why the creator gave us Gold and Silver. :)

The transaction log is a necessary evil the trick is setting up multiple wallets to hide your true / public bitcoin wallet. I have multiple wallets and trying to decide which one i want to make my public address. To make it even more interesting, you can use a program called AdvOR (Advanced Onion Routing) to capture and direct the network traffic over Tor to mask your IP for your hidden wallet.

The trick is knowing the mediums weakness and to correct them on your own. Some could argue that the transaction log is it's greatest strength. Name me a single bank institution today that will let you view their transaction logs or book entries without a government issued warrant.

I agree, it's a tool. I view it as an excellent payment processing system, something to defeat paypal.

The only issue with that is that it's apparently a crime to transfer money privately. They call it money laundering. If you set up multiple wallets as you suggest, that in itself could be considered a crime.

That transferring money between two people on the planet is a crime is disgusting and outrageous.

Ares
31st March 2013, 06:26 PM
The only issue with that is that it's apparently a crime to transfer money privately. They call it money laundering. If you set up multiple wallets as you suggest, that in itself could be considered a crime.

That transferring money between two people on the planet is a crime is disgusting and outrageous.

Yeah transferring money between two people anonymously is "money laundering". I look at it as sheer arrogance that they deem it their "right" to know about all financial transactions. Yet, ask to view theirs, and you'll be laughed out of any court room in America. So whose really laundering money?

If they want to sue someone for having multiple wallets, I wonder if someone could counter with asking to see what's on the governments black operations books.. You know what's good for the goose is good for the gander right?

steyr_m
31st March 2013, 07:15 PM
Keep in mind, that this is the same guy who believes "Cash is king". Bitcoin is a tool, is it perfect?


I got the same feeling from what i read, and I didn't read all of it. It was a bit too over my head, and over-explained.

One thing I read: "the ability to profit without effort by the future efforts of others who engage in the mining of coins". Why not? Soon the new machines will be coming out and the profits will be dropping by too much supply. If the supply out paces the demand, we can buy at a bargain. Can't the same be said for silver? As industrial demands are soon overtaking the supply, aren't we doing the same here at GSUS sitting on our piles of silver? Plus, there will be a day when there will be no more BTCs being mined.

For BTC to really work is --

1. Universal acceptance
2. Confidence in it

I know if it does take off, TPTB will try to trash it in the MSM. They want a universal currency too, but one that they control, not one who no-one controls.

sirgonzo420
1st April 2013, 06:39 AM
All-Time high: $98.40

sirgonzo420
1st April 2013, 08:14 AM
All-Time high: $98.40


New All-Time High: $101

Horn
1st April 2013, 08:30 AM
New All-Time High: $101


Wasn't it just the price of silver last week? That's too many tulips...

sirgonzo420
1st April 2013, 08:48 AM
Wasn't it just the price of silver last week? That's too many tulips...

New All-Time High: $103.95

Son-of-Liberty
1st April 2013, 03:06 PM
The thing that scares me about bitcoin is that if it were not going up at such a parabolic rate I wouldn't really be interested in it at all. How much of this demand is people fleeing their currencies and how much is people jumping on the band wagon because they don't want to be the only ones left behind?

This board certainly wasn't very interested in it until it's price started to become obscene. I had heard of bitcoin awhile ago but didn't really know what it was until this thread was started.

I like the idea of being able to transact anonymously online but it appears that since it leaves a permanent digital record that anyone can see, you may not be quite as anonymous as you think you are. If you use them to make a real life transaction why not just use cash instead?

One thing is certain the person or people who created it are/have already made millions or hundreds of millions and are laughing their asses off no matter what happens from here.

Son-of-Liberty
1st April 2013, 03:14 PM
Why not just copy bitcoins and call them batcoins and start them yourself so you can make millions rather then buy in at $100 hoping it will go to $1000 or $10000? Is anyone doing this? There is nothing tangible about them unlike gold and silver so why is their not competition in this space?

People are spending ridiculous sums of money to create computers to mine something that isn't even real? why? Why not just create a competing currency that isn't so hard to mine? Then mine it yourself. Some of the critics are right that all the rewards go to the early adopters much like a Ponzi scheme or network marketing. Then all the people that join late do all the heavy lifting but get the least rewards.

Would any of us even be interested in bitcoins @ $100 if their was an alternative crypto currency at $0.01?

Ares
1st April 2013, 03:27 PM
One thing is certain the person or people who created it are/have already made millions or hundreds of millions and are laughing their asses off no matter what happens from here.

Ok... Prove it. The early adopters also spent obscene amounts on hardware with very little return in the beginning. At first it started with mining with CPU's people just letting it run on their computers. No return, maybe 1-2 cents AT MOST for a single bitcoin. A year or so goes by and someone figures out you can mine bitcoins using GPU (Graphical Processing Units / video cards) Some people built entire rigs just dedicated to mining bitcoins with 2-3 graphics cards per motherboards whose sole purpose was to mine bitcoins. Again bitcoin at this time was trading for wide swings of 5 to 25 dollars per coin. It was a wide unstable margin.

Then ASIC mining was invented (Around the time Madfranks and I got in on the action, no I don't have my ASIC miner yet).

Speed up a couple months and the European Union starts imploding. Gold / Silver is locked up by the early adopters / banksters from the previous gold standard but if you want paper shares you can have as many as your heart desires. At 1,600+ an ounce it really isn't economical to dump your entire life savings into a currency that you can't buy or trade for shit online with. The more integrated the modern world is, the more need there is for an electronic medium of exchange. Bitcoin solves that, and greatly reduces transaction fees, it's stateless, borderless, and no central bank can claim it.

The creators of bitcoin making millions? Sure if you mean the diehard miners maybe if they already have the equipment to do it. Who benefits if silver and gold go up in price? It sure as hell isn't us. It's a store of value, it maintains purchasing power. But try leaving the country with it.

Ares
1st April 2013, 03:29 PM
Why not just copy bitcoins and call them batcoins and start them yourself so you can make millions rather then buy in at $100 hoping it will go to $1000 or $10000? Is anyone doing this? There is nothing tangible about them unlike gold and silver so why is their not competition in this space?

People are spending ridiculous sums of money to create computers to mine something that isn't even real? why? Why not just create a competing currency that isn't so hard to mine? Then mine it yourself. Some of the critics are right that all the rewards go to the early adopters much like a Ponzi scheme or network marketing. Then all the people that join late do all the heavy lifting but get the least rewards.

Would any of us even be interested in bitcoins @ $100 if their was an alternative crypto currency at $0.01?

There are 5 other competing crypto currencies. Why not mine some?

http://usahitman.com/5ccynho/

Shami-Amourae
1st April 2013, 03:35 PM
Litecoin is basically the same code with a few alterations that make it work somewhat differently. I'm trying to find a way to buy some right now, since the price will skyrocket I think. I just heard a rumor that Mt Gox might cover it. If that's true you could expect the price of Litecoin to go up by 10x very rapidly. Just saying.

Bitcoin as the new Gold.
Litecoin as the new Silver.


I'm sure many of you may think I'm crazy, but, we are in crazy world right now...

Ares
1st April 2013, 03:40 PM
Litecoin is basically the same code with a few alterations that make it work somewhat differently. I'm trying to find a way to buy some right now, since the price will skyrocket I think. I just heard a rumor that Mt Gox might cover it. If that's true you could expect the price of Litecoin to go up by 10x very rapidly. Just saying.

Bitcoin as the new Gold.
Litecoin as the new Silver.


I'm sure many of you may think I'm crazy, but, we are in crazy world right now...

Not at all, I started having my Dell PowerEdge 1950 Dual Xeon Quad core running litecoin mining. If MtGox opens up exchange for Litecoin, I think that will seal the deal for the other competing digital currencies and you may be right. Bitcoin = New Gold Litecoin = New Silver.

Son-of-Liberty
1st April 2013, 03:41 PM
Thanks Ares, I did not realize their was any competition at this time.

madfranks
1st April 2013, 04:25 PM
With bitcoins now over $100 and silver below $28, I'm buying more silver.

Litecoin mining also sounds like fun, let's jump on this bandwagon and hope it truly does become the silver to bitcoin's gold.

Horn
1st April 2013, 05:54 PM
With bitcoins now over $100 and silver below $28, I'm buying more silver.

Litecoin mining also sounds like fun, let's jump on this bandwagon and hope it truly does become the silver to bitcoin's gold.

What's the longest running thread on this Silver site?

steyr_m
1st April 2013, 07:18 PM
Not at all, I started having my Dell PowerEdge 1950 Dual Xeon Quad core running litecoin mining. If MtGox opens up exchange for Litecoin, I think that will seal the deal for the other competing digital currencies and you may be right. Bitcoin = New Gold Litecoin = New Silver.

What are you using a Dual Xeon Quad core for? That's alot of muscle. Still doing some reading on using a GPU for LTC mining, it's not the same as BTC mining.... I think in a different thread, those ASIC machines will probably drive the prices down. I though I was doing well with my 550 m/hash -- those are what???? 1,500 g/hash. I'll have some $$$ ready to drop on some BTC then...

Cebu_4_2
1st April 2013, 07:40 PM
What are you using a Dual Xeon Quad core for? That's alot of muscle. Still doing some reading on using a GPU for LTC mining, it's not the same as BTC mining.... I think in a different thread, those ASIC machines will probably drive the prices down. I though I was doing well with my 550 m/hash -- those are what???? 1,500 g/hash. I'll have some $$$ ready to drop on some BTC then...

I am not following as closely as I should, this all sounds like a different language to me now.

steyr_m
1st April 2013, 07:49 PM
I've been into it pretty heavily for the last 7-10 days. I was thinking and working on getting a GSUS pool together, but those ASIC machines are going to put any GPU COTS machines to waste, and really not worth the effort.

Litecoin does look like a good alternative since they rely more on CPUs and RAM more so than the sha256 hashes with BTC. Most people, [esp if you're running Linux] have machines CPUs that are underutilized, and [I believe] worth looking into.

Ares
1st April 2013, 08:21 PM
I've been into it pretty heavily for the last 7-10 days. I was thinking and working on getting a GSUS pool together, but those ASIC machines are going to put any GPU COTS machines to waste, and really not worth the effort.

Litecoin does look like a good alternative since they rely more on CPUs and RAM more so than the sha256 hashes with BTC. Most people, [esp if you're running Linux] have machines CPUs that are underutilized, and [I believe] worth looking into.

Well Steyr_m check this out.

Mt.Gox confirmed that they are going to start having Litecoin on the exchange. This is HUGE

From the IRC channel:
Quote

MagicalTux has changed the topic to: Mt.Gox 24/7 IRC support channel | don t ask to ask, just ask | offtopic goes to ##mtgox-chat | tickers and trades on #mtgox-RT and #bitcoin-RT | LTC support coming soon
<bittrader> MagicalTux is it ok for me to make a news press release about LTC coming soon?
<MagicalTux> bittrader: I cannot officially announce how "soon" "soon" means
<Plarkplark> @MagicalTux thanks, how great. Or is this April-1 joke?
<Jx8p> well, let's just say my mining riggs are going to be e-xxx-panding
<thrasher`> I hope it isn't an april-1 joke haha
<ypSami> Plarkplark: MagicalTux is in Japan. The Japanese have no sense of humor. :P
<bittrader> thats ok I can just write that Mt.Gox has not provided an exact time frame for release
<Jx8p> come on the 5th. Payday1
<Jx8p> *!
<MagicalTux> bittrader: you can say that MtGox is exploring the possibility of adding LTC to its trading engine
<MagicalTux> basically the only thing that remains is to write the communication with the Litecoin network
<bittrader> ok
<MagicalTux> that's a large part
<MagicalTux> but thanks to our platform, adding a new currency to the trading engine is as easy as clicking a few options in an admin interface ;)


This is massive. Litecoin price will skyrock.

https://www.bitcoinforum.com/bitcoin-exchange/mt-gox-confirmed-to-start-exchanging-litecoin!-don%27t-miss-the-boat-on-this-one!/

steyr_m
1st April 2013, 10:07 PM
This is massive. Litecoin price will skyrock.


I'm totally switching to LTC mining for the moment. Thanks for the bit of a heads up SG420...
here's my rig doing BTC duty until LTC is up
4656

Son-of-Liberty
1st April 2013, 10:07 PM
I have a litecoin wallet and account at btc-e.com. What is the easiest safe-est way to fund it?

Would like to get my hands on some litecoins before they go ballistic.

steyr_m
1st April 2013, 10:10 PM
I have a litecoin wallet and account at btc-e.com. What is the easiest safe-est way to fund it?

Would like to get my hands on some litecoins before they go ballistic.

Have your biggest/burlyest CPUs do the heavy lifting until you get your GPU to work.

madfranks
1st April 2013, 10:11 PM
I have a litecoin wallet and account at btc-e.com. What is the easiest safe-est way to fund it?

Would like to get my hands on some litecoins before they go ballistic.

Probably the easiest way is to mine your own: http://cryptojunky.com/blog/2013/03/12/absolute-beginners-guide-to-litecoin-mining/

sirgonzo420
1st April 2013, 10:39 PM
lol


I only had litecoins for shits and giggles.

Plenty of shitting and giggling tonight.


;D

Shami-Amourae
1st April 2013, 11:00 PM
Do any of you guys know how to deposit USD into BTC-e? I'm trying to figure out how.

Hitch
1st April 2013, 11:00 PM
Just be careful folks. Know when to jump ship and turn your digital coins into tangibles.

The way things are heading, nothing digital can be trusted. Bitcoins too were conjured up out of thin air. It may all just come crashing back down, poof.

Shami-Amourae
1st April 2013, 11:13 PM
I have a litecoin wallet and account at btc-e.com. What is the easiest safe-est way to fund it?

Would like to get my hands on some litecoins before they go ballistic.

I think the best way (after research) is to literally buy them with Bitcoins. So buy some Bitcoins and sell them for Litecoins.

Son-of-Liberty
1st April 2013, 11:18 PM
Do any of you guys know how to deposit USD into BTC-e? I'm trying to figure out how.

It is convoluted as hell. I have been trying to figure it out for the last hour and a half myself. Best I can figure I will have to deposit funds to Mt.Gox get a voucher to send to btc-e through bitinstant. However when I go to bitinstant they seem to have the option to take btc-e vouchers to send to MT.gox but they don't have the option to send them the other way it is fucked.

Only other way I can think of is if you have bitcoins already fund it that way. But I don't so I am screwed and litecoins will likely be $10 before I can fund the fucking account.

Son-of-Liberty
1st April 2013, 11:21 PM
I think the best way (after research) is to literally buy them with Bitcoins. So buy some Bitcoins and sell them for Litecoins.

Is their any safe way to get bitcoins without having to download the whole blockchain? That could take awhile.

Shami-Amourae
1st April 2013, 11:29 PM
It is convoluted as hell. I have been trying to figure it out for the last hour and a half myself. Best I can figure I will have to deposit funds to Mt.Gox get a voucher to send to btc-e through bitinstant. However when I go to bitinstant they seem to have the option to take btc-e vouchers to send to MT.gox but they don't have the option to send them the other way it is fucked.

Only other way I can think of is if you have bitcoins already fund it that way. But I don't so I am screwed and litecoins will likely be $10 before I can fund the fucking account.

I don't think that will happen now unless it becomes easier to buy Bitcoins. People will, and are looking for an alternative since the $100 price mark seems to high for most people. If Mt Gox starts doing Litecoin that's when you want to buy like crazy.

Shami-Amourae
1st April 2013, 11:36 PM
Is their any safe way to get bitcoins without having to download the whole blockchain? That could take awhile.

The only safe way is let the client download the blockchain itself. Yes I know, it could take days/weeks. You can't really trust any blockchain torrents out there. It takes a long time, I know. This is the #1 flaw with Bitcoin. I've been saying this for a while.

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 12:27 AM
Started downloading the blockchain for bitcoin and it is going retardedly fast. I don't get it? 20% in a few minutes. that doesn't seem right

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 12:29 AM
how many blocks are their supposed to be? I have 229256 that was less then litecoin @ 325454

Neuro
2nd April 2013, 01:54 AM
Just got an idea, how about giving bitcoins silver backing? Mint 1 oz silver rounds with 1 bitcoins value on them, and let them be exchangeable...

joboo
2nd April 2013, 04:11 AM
how many blocks are their supposed to be? I have 229256 that was less then litecoin @ 325454

I dunno, but Bitcoin took a couple days for me to download. Litecoin was only a couple hours.

EE_
2nd April 2013, 06:14 AM
Some questions I have...
Bitcoins are now worth over a billion dollars...how much labor and energy did it take to create this billion dollars?
The Fed did not allow Norfed dollars...why does the fed allow you to trade this alternate currency?
Do you think transactions with bitcoins are anonomous when you make purchases or turn them into cash?
Currently you are required to pay tax on capitol gains in gold and silver...why not bitcoins?
Do you think the NWO wants a purely digital currency?
Do you think greed plays a large part in every bubble in history?
Is it possible the Money Changers, or Google are involved in bitcoin?

joboo
2nd April 2013, 06:41 AM
Some questions I have...
Bitcoins are now worth over a billion dollars...how much labor and energy did it take to create this billion dollars?
The Fed did not allow Norfed dollars...why does the fed allow you to trade this alternate currency?
Do you think transactions with bitcoins are anonomous when you make purchases or turn them into cash?
Currently you are required to pay tax on capitol gains in gold and silver...why not bitcoins?
Do you think the NWO wants a purely digital currency?
Do you think greed plays a large part in every bubble in history?
Is it possible the Money Changers, or Google are involved in bitcoin?

See: bit torrent

What tptb desires more or less becomes irrelevant.

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 09:07 AM
Some questions I have...
Bitcoins are now worth over a billion dollars...how much labor and energy did it take to create this billion dollars?

I still think this is the weak link here. Nobody is creating anything tangible and of value to create the bitcoins. At least when you borrow money from the bank to build a house and your signature creates the money the house is real and always has value.

The Fed did not allow Norfed dollars...why does the fed allow you to trade this alternate currency?

They might not like it but good luck stopping it

Do you think transactions with bitcoins are anonomous when you make purchases or turn them into cash?

Depending on how you do it yes. I came across a site that lets you fund a prepaid mastercard with them.

Currently you are required to pay tax on capitol gains in gold and silver...why not bitcoins?

I suppose they want you to but I already have no liability to pay taxes

Do you think the NWO wants a purely digital currency?

One that they control, yes. I don't think bitcoin is under their control though. Also it is only another tool to be used I am not getting rid of my gold/silver

Do you think greed plays a large part in every bubble in history?

Absolutely. Doesn't mean there isn't money to be made here. That is what unchecked money creation by governments does. Causes people to speculate to protect their savings

Is it possible the Money Changers, or Google are involved in bitcoin?

Potentially, but if it is only a small part of your diversification this isn't a huge risk. Someone who put a grand into bitcoins a couple years ago could be a millionaire today. I don't think the gains going forward will be that good but there is still opportunity to make some money and at least protect your wealth in a digital form that can be sent anywhere in the world instantly and outside of government control.



...

mick silver
2nd April 2013, 09:19 AM
Just be careful folks. Know when to jump ship and turn your digital coins into tangibles.

The way things are heading, nothing digital can be trusted. Bitcoins too were conjured up out of thin air. It may all just come crashing back down, poof.
yep i took my paper today and added to my family food supply one day it will become the Bitcoin but in real stuff not digital stuff . i thought that the reason none of like the fed who could just push a key and it there . and i did pick up a few metal silver dollars today also

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 09:38 AM
Definitely, if you would of asked me 2 years ago if I would invest in hardware to mine either BitCoins or Litecoins I would of laughed and said hell no. But I see the potential is there to make some extra money. Yeah I might not live well off of it, that's fine if I can supplement my income a little why not?

Bitcoin has paid off mortgages!


There will only ever be 21,000,000 btc....

If one has 21 bitcoins, then one has one one-millionth of the entire eventual (not all the coins are out yet) BTC economy. That means that there could only be 999,999 other people with the same amount.

If one only had 1 bitcoin, then one has one 21-millionth of the entire eventual BTC economy.... which means there could be no more than about 21,000,000 people with the same amount.

Regarding crypto-currencies like Bitcoin and Litecoin, anyone who hears about it now and acts can still be considered an "early adopter".

The cost of admission is still ridiculously cheap. Anyone who has ever played the lottery owes it to himself to buy into Bitcoin. It's by no means a sure thing, but compared to the lottery it's a fuckin' grade A solid investment! If it were to "really take off", having any amount would be quite significant.

Imagine being able to cheaply buy one one-millionth of the world's gold.... (which is, according to my quick calculations, over 5000 oz of gold, at a current market value of $8million+)....

Ares
2nd April 2013, 09:55 AM
Bitcoin has paid off mortgages!


There will only ever be 21,000,000 btc....

If one has 21 bitcoins, then one has one one-millionth of the entire eventual (not all the coins are out yet) BTC economy. That means that there could only be 999,999 other people with the same amount.

If one only had 1 bitcoin, then one has one 21-millionth of the entire eventual BTC economy.... which means there could be no more than about 21,000,000 people with the same amount.

Regarding crypto-currencies like Bitcoin and Litecoin, anyone who hears about it now and acts can still be considered an "early adopter".

The cost of admission is still ridiculously cheap. Anyone who has ever played the lottery owes it to himself to buy into Bitcoin. It's by no means a sure thing, but compared to the lottery it's a fuckin' grade A solid investment! If it were to "really take off", having any amount would be quite significant.

Imagine being able to cheaply buy one one-millionth of the world's gold.... (which is, according to my quick calculations, over 5000 oz of gold, at a current market value of $8million+)....

Wife and I just purchased the equipment for me to build a Litecoin mining rig. So I hope to have a rig that will mine 1,200 K/hs by the end of this week up and running. If Mt.Gox really does adopt Litecoin for trading the price will surely go up. As it stands I've already mined 5 LTC's with just my CPU's. With current difficulty and 1,200 hash rate I should get about 12 coins a day with just dedicated mining.

Shami-Amourae
2nd April 2013, 10:05 AM
I had over 138 Bitcoins at one point. I completely regret not sticking to my guns and holding onto them. Just whatever happens, understand these prices are volatile. It's best to buy them early and forget about the prices for a while, despite how hard they rise or crash. If you believe the idea of cryptocurrencies is here to stay, then stick to your guns and watch your wealth multiply.

By the way, my 'predictions' are my thoughts of the moment. Cryptocurrencies are are a new beast and new techniques and thinking needs to be made to figure out how to profit with them. I have made many bad calls in the past, but I think I'm getting closer and closer to understanding how they work each time. It's pure mass psychology.

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 10:22 AM
I am really getting screwed trying to get set up to get some bitcoins here in Canada. A lot of the faster, safe and more anonymous options are unavailable here like bitinstant.

Any suggestions? Dwolla is only for Americans.

Don't know if mining is even worth it. I am using a 3 year old MAC right now and creating a mining rig is above my skill level at this time. Plus spending hundreds for a mining rig to potentially get a small payoff in the future doesn't sit well with me. The more people that start mining the lower the payoff will be.

Found a company (https://www.canadianbitcoins.com/) that is taking cash deposits at some banks but they are charging a $15 premium and are back-ordered.

Looked for local people selling in my area on (https://localbitcoins.com/) and there are none within 3 hours drive.

Apparently there is a shortage of bitcoins here in Canada. :(

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 10:25 AM
and meanwhile the price keeps going up.....

;(

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 10:27 AM
Wife and I just purchased the equipment for me to build a Litecoin mining rig. So I hope to have a rig that will mine 1,200 K/hs by the end of this week up and running. If Mt.Gox really does adopt Litecoin for trading the price will surely go up. As it stands I've already mined 5 LTC's with just my CPU's. With current difficulty and 1,200 hash rate I should get about 12 coins a day with just dedicated mining.

How much did it cost you for the parts? Do you mind sharing? I am not that tech savvy but I have a friend who could build the rig.

Ares
2nd April 2013, 10:31 AM
I am really getting screwed trying to get set up to get some bitcoins here in Canada. A lot of the faster, safe and more anonymous options are unavailable here like bitinstant.

Any suggestions? Dwolla is only for Americans.

Don't know if mining is even worth it. I am using a 3 year old MAC right now and creating a mining rig is above my skill level at this time. Plus spending hundreds for a mining rig to potentially get a small payoff in the future doesn't sit well with me. The more people that start mining the lower the payoff will be.

Found a company (https://www.canadianbitcoins.com/) that is taking cash deposits at some banks but they are charging a $15 premium and are back-ordered.

Looked for local people selling in my area on (https://localbitcoins.com/) and there are none within 3 hours drive.

Apparently there is a shortage of bitcoins here in Canada. :(

Wife and I went back and forth for a good couple of hours before pulling the trigger to buy the equipment for a LTC miner. At current price and difficulty it will pay for itself in under a month. So to me, it is worth the risk. My first sell order will be just what I paid for hardware, and hopefully the price continues to climb and I can continue to mine to supplement my income. Purchase some additional hardware and keep adding hashing power. If you need a hand getting a rig setup, let me know. You'll need a decent graphics card, Motherboard, processor, and at least 8GB of ram. 1000 to 1200watt power supply. I plan on building my own container for the rig out of extra wood I have in my basement from when I built my house. It will be open and free flowing for air. If you want a parts list, I'm attaching the hardware that I purchased. I already have a DVD drive, and SATA hard disk. So I didn't need to purchase one.

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 10:40 AM
Thanks at least I have an idea of the cost now.

Ares
2nd April 2013, 10:43 AM
Thanks at least I have an idea of the cost now.

I skimped on a few things, I could of purchased higher end graphics cards that allow for over clocking, and a 1200w Power supply. But figured since I'm unemployed it was already a big risk. lol So I'll build that start hashing, pay it off continue mining and hopefully mtgox will start trading and making my investment worth it. Will take 30 days to get about 360 coins, I plan on keeping a good portion of those and only selling when / if I need too.

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 10:56 AM
Ares do you know how much bandwidth the mining rig would use? I am out in the country and my internet is reasonably fast but there is a bandwidth cap of 30GB/month. Could upgrade to 60GB fairly cheaply but beyond that I am not sure.

Ares
2nd April 2013, 11:00 AM
Ares do you know how much bandwidth the mining rig would use? I am out in the country and my internet is reasonably fast but there is a bandwidth cap of 30GB/month. Could upgrade to 60GB fairly cheaply but beyond that I am not sure.

You won't get anywhere near that. The bandwidth used by Bitcoin / litecoin mining is pretty insignificant. You'll perform the work in 256k units, so it's pretty small. You have a way to meter your bandwidth and keep an eye on it? I would rely on that to determine it's usage but I haven't read anywhere of anyone complaining about how much bandwidth mining uses.

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 11:18 AM
Ares do you know how much bandwidth the mining rig would use? I am out in the country and my internet is reasonably fast but there is a bandwidth cap of 30GB/month. Could upgrade to 60GB fairly cheaply but beyond that I am not sure.

Electricity bill is generally more of a factor than bandwidth.

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 11:39 AM
Yeah I can monitor bandwidth easily. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to be huge bandwidth hog because that could potentially be a problem.

EE_
2nd April 2013, 11:57 AM
Litecoin is now $4.33.

I hope this catches on globally so everyone can use this digital currency.
Soon there will no longer be a need for hard currencies like cash, gold and silver.
This is going to be great!

Hitch
2nd April 2013, 12:08 PM
I hope this catches on globally so everyone can use this digital currency.
Soon there will no longer be a need for hard currencies like cash, gold and silver.
This is going to be great!

What's even better, is if they could make a chip that we can implant in our heads. Nobody could steal our bitcoins then.

The future is indeed very exciting!

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 12:24 PM
I hope this catches on globally so everyone can use this digital currency.
Soon there will no longer be a need for hard currencies like cash, gold and silver.
This is going to be great!

LOL. something like that. But for those of us who are old-school gold/silver bugs, digital currencies can buy a shit ton of gold and silver, and even ammo, if done correctly.

Shami-Amourae
2nd April 2013, 12:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5vVDZOubk

Son-of-Liberty
2nd April 2013, 12:58 PM
I was a hard sell but am definitely going to invest a small amount.

I am looking at bitcoin/litecoin as a risky investment. Sort of like penny stocks in a way but I feel less risky and more upside potential. Not a replacement for gold/silver or even cash. But it is a another way to diversify without holding government/banker paper and it has advantages that PM's do not.

Shami-Amourae
2nd April 2013, 01:05 PM
What's even better, is if they could make a chip that we can implant in our heads. Nobody could steal our bitcoins then.

The future is indeed very exciting!

The Illuminati/Elite aren't doing this. This is a rebellion by crypto-anarchists. We will destroy this system of International Jewry and liberate humanity without having to fire a shot or participating in any rigged election.

Ares
2nd April 2013, 01:12 PM
I was a hard sell but am definitely going to invest a small amount.

I am looking at bitcoin/litecoin as a risky investment. Sort of like penny stocks in a way but I feel less risky and more upside potential. Not a replacement for gold/silver or even cash. But it is a another way to diversify without holding government/banker paper and it has advantages that PM's do not.

Same here, I looked into Bitcoin back in 2010 and thought to myself. No way that will never take off. Been kicking myself in the ass since Nov of last year....

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 01:23 PM
Same here, I looked into Bitcoin back in 2010 and thought to myself. No way that will never take off. Been kicking myself in the ass since Nov of last year....

Same here, except I did get in before the first run-up to $30 in Spring/Summer 2011.

If I had spent about one more hour going over it in 2010, when I had first heard about it, I would have many, many, many more ounces of gold to show for it today. So I am kicking myself a bit too, but not nearly as much as someone completely on the sidelines.

ximmy
2nd April 2013, 01:44 PM
Tradehill stole mine. I'm pretty sure I bought them under $10.00

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 01:51 PM
Tradehill stole mine. I'm pretty sure I bought them under $10.00

Send an email to claim@tradehill.com

They should pay you back without too much of a problem.

Let me know how it goes.

ximmy
2nd April 2013, 02:07 PM
Send an email to claim@tradehill.com

They should pay you back without too much of a problem.

Let me know how it goes.

My bad. I didnt keep a record of them other than on tradehill, so I have no idea what to claim.

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 02:35 PM
My bad. I didnt keep a record of them other than on tradehill, so I have no idea what to claim.

I would send them an email letting them know that they still owe you bitcoins.

You could give them a username or email address that you remember using for tradehill, and they should be able to find your account on the backend of the site.

Since you apparently haven't already claimed them, they should still show them owing you bitcoins. You might want to contact them. If you do, I think they'll make it right.

joboo
2nd April 2013, 02:49 PM
http://ltc.kattare.com/calc.php


Difficulty factor is the killer variable for a mining rig from a profit perspective.

Cebu_4_2
2nd April 2013, 02:59 PM
How can you find out what capacity your machine has? Run CGIminer?

I did a budget upgrade cause I couldn't even play youtube videos without 100% cpu, now not so much.
Re-syncing my wallet, no clue where the backup files went and seems to be a bit faster.

Neuro
2nd April 2013, 03:11 PM
Bitcoin has paid off mortgages!


There will only ever be 21,000,000 btc....

If one has 21 bitcoins, then one has one one-millionth of the entire eventual (not all the coins are out yet) BTC economy. That means that there could only be 999,999 other people with the same amount.

If one only had 1 bitcoin, then one has one 21-millionth of the entire eventual BTC economy.... which means there could be no more than about 21,000,000 people with the same amount.

Regarding crypto-currencies like Bitcoin and Litecoin, anyone who hears about it now and acts can still be considered an "early adopter".

The cost of admission is still ridiculously cheap. Anyone who has ever played the lottery owes it to himself to buy into Bitcoin. It's by no means a sure thing, but compared to the lottery it's a fuckin' grade A solid investment! If it were to "really take off", having any amount would be quite significant.

Imagine being able to cheaply buy one one-millionth of the world's gold.... (which is, according to my quick calculations, over 5000 oz of gold, at a current market value of $8million+)....
You are aware that what you are lining up are the typical crazy bubble arguments why bitcoins are such an excellent investment aren't you?

ximmy
2nd April 2013, 03:21 PM
I would send them an email letting them know that they still owe you bitcoins.

You could give them a username or email address that you remember using for tradehill, and they should be able to find your account on the backend of the site.

Since you apparently haven't already claimed them, they should still show them owing you bitcoins. You might want to contact them. If you do, I think they'll make it right.


I'll give it a try, see what happens. Thanks, I'll keep you informed.
ximmy

Hitch
2nd April 2013, 03:26 PM
The Illuminati/Elite aren't doing this. This is a rebellion by crypto-anarchists. We will destroy this system of International Jewry and liberate humanity without having to fire a shot or participating in any rigged election.

Do you really think TPTB don't have their greedy hands into bitcoin? Hmm..use Cyprus to get folks stampeding out of the banks and into bitcoin. Drive the price up to astronomical highs, pull the plug on bitcoin and poof, all gone. Laughing the whole time as they take even more wealth away from the people. Sounds like the housing bubble.

The only thing of honest value is tangibles, imo. Gold, silver, guns, ammo, etc.

Neuro
2nd April 2013, 03:27 PM
Now it's been up to $116...

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 03:34 PM
You are aware that what you are lining up are the typical crazy bubble arguments why bitcoins are such an excellent investment aren't you?

Bitcoin may be in a "bubble", but it started at about $0.0001-$0.001 for crying out loud. The free market determines the price. All I'm saying, is that if one has pissed $$$ playing the lottery (I have spent less than $5 on the lottery in my entire life, which may or may not explain why I haven't won!) then they ought to piss away a fraction more $$$ on Bitcoin, where the odds of "winning" are much greater and potentially more lucrative. ;D

I don't really care either way. I understand gold and silver, and I hold some. I am not a Bitcoin "fan". I don't "like" Bitcoin, per se, but I understand it, and that understanding led me to obtain some when the price and general interest was much lower, because I could read the proverbial writing on the wall. 5 years or 10 years from now, a bitcoin may be worth nothing, but if it *isn't* worth nothing, you might wished you'd had a few... or one... or 0.0001 or whatever, I don't know and it's a gamble - but that's part of what makes it fun.

I have no idea where the price of Bitcoin will go, and I don't have quite enough to move the market too much by myself. ;D

sirgonzo420
2nd April 2013, 03:45 PM
Do you really think TPTB don't have their greedy hands into bitcoin? Hmm..use Cyprus to get folks stampeding out of the banks and into bitcoin. Drive the price up to astronomical highs, pull the plug on bitcoin and poof, all gone. Laughing the whole time as they take even more wealth away from the people. Sounds like the housing bubble.

The only thing of honest value is tangibles, imo. Gold, silver, guns, ammo, etc.

I am not disagreeing with you.

I don't advise putting into bitcoins amounts that one cannot stand to lose. Don't spend grocery money on bitcoins.

But if you are willing to take a little bit of a chance, a well-timed buy of $100 worth of bitcoins could later buy $1000s+ worth of tangibles like gold, silver, guns, ammo, etc.

In the history of crypto-currencies, buying $1 worth at the right time has made millionaires.


But it's gambling. Interesting gambling. Hell it's still "experimental". Experiments can be fun, but they can blow up in your face if not properly handled. Viewer discretion is advised.

Ares
2nd April 2013, 03:59 PM
Do you really think TPTB don't have their greedy hands into bitcoin? Hmm..use Cyprus to get folks stampeding out of the banks and into bitcoin. Drive the price up to astronomical highs, pull the plug on bitcoin and poof, all gone. Laughing the whole time as they take even more wealth away from the people. Sounds like the housing bubble.

The only thing of honest value is tangibles, imo. Gold, silver, guns, ammo, etc.

I think some of them are a little late to the party trying to get their heads around it. Crypto currencies are an entirely different animal all together. Proof of work transaction logs are something you'd see every jew banker in the U.S. cry a river a mile long if they had to maintain one. There is no fractional reserve lending in bitcoin. It's tit for tat and TPTB already control, gold, silver, ammo and other tangibles. The DHS has purchased almost 2 billion rounds of ammo, keeping them out of yours and mine hands. They once made owning gold and silver illegal. How would you leave the country with your wealth or transfer it to your family if you passed away? We already know that FRN's are state issues, state controlled and are property of the state. You have a bitcoin, it's yours and no one else's while you have it. It cannot be counterfeited, it cannot be stolen (do your due own due diligence with password protecting and encrypting your BTC wallet), and it cannot be controlled, government cannot dictate how you spend said currency.

Bitcoin is not perfect, but it all boils down to trust. Do you trust some 1's and 0's with a proof of work concept built into the system. Or do you trust a central bank and governments decree that a dollar is worth a dollar no matter how many they print?

Shami-Amourae
2nd April 2013, 04:15 PM
pull the plug on bitcoin and poof, all gone.

That can't happen. That's not how it works. Look at the source code if you don't believe me. It's open sourced. There's nothing to hide. If you can't read/understand the source code, you don't know what you're talking about. This is a completely new concept. You can't compare it to anything.

joboo
2nd April 2013, 04:50 PM
The whole system is rigged so that he who gets the money first gets the most...that will never change.

You want good eats at a bake sale...show up early.

Banks are going nuts...there is opportunity in that.

steyr_m
2nd April 2013, 06:02 PM
The only thing of honest value is tangibles, imo. Gold, silver, guns, ammo, etc.

If you can increase your "Gold, silver, guns, ammo, etc" with BTC/LTC -- why not?

Cebu_4_2
2nd April 2013, 06:06 PM
Mining hardware comparison

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison