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JohnQPublic
22nd March 2013, 04:29 AM
US Begins Regulating BitCoin, Will Apply "Money Laundering" Rules To Virtual Transactions (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-21/us-begins-regulating-bitcoin-will-consider-virtual-transactions-money-laundering)


Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on 03/21/2013 21:22 -0400

Last November, in an act of sheer monetary desperation, the ECB issued an exhaustive, and quite ridiculous, pamphlet (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-02/friday-humor-ecb-explains-what-ponzi-scheme-awkward-silence-follows)titled "Virtual Currency Schemes" in which it mocked and warned about the "ponziness" of such electronic currencies as BitCoin. Why a central bank would stoop so "low" to even acknowledge what no "self-respecting" (sic) PhD-clad economist would even discuss, drunk and slurring, at cocktail parties, remains a mystery to this day. However, that it did so over fears the official artificial currency of the insolvent continent, the EUR, may be becoming even more "ponzi" than the BitCoins the ECB was warning about, was clear to everyone involved who saw right through the cheap propaganda attempt. Feel free to ask any Cypriot if they would now rather have their money in locked up Euros, or in "ponzi" yet freely transferable, unregulated BitCoins.
For the answer, we present the chart showing the price of BitCoin in EUR terms since the issuance of the ECB's paper:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/BitCoin%20Nov%20Now_0.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/BitCoin%20Nov%20Now.jpg)
Therein, sadly, lies the rub.
As central banks have been able to manipulate the price of precious metals for decades, using a countless plethora of blatant and not so blatant trading techniques, whether involving "banging the close", abusing the London AM fix, rehypothecating and leasing out claims on gold to short and re-short the underlying, creating paper gold exposure out of thin air with which to suppress deliverable prices, or simply engaging in any other heretofore unknown illegal activity, the parabolic surge in gold and silver has, at least for the time being - and especially since the infamous, and demoralizing May 1, 2011 silver smackdown (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/silver-plunges-china-slowdown-concerns-dollar-short-covering) - lost its mojo.

But while precious metals have been subject to price manipulation by the legacy establishment, even if ultimately the actual physical currency equivalent asset, its "value" naively expressed in some paper currency, may be in the possession of the beholder, to date no price suppression or regulation schemes of virtual currencies existed.
It was thus only a matter of time before the same establishment was forced to make sure that money leaving the traditional M0/M1/M2/M3 would not go into alternative electronic currency venues, but would instead be used to accelerate the velocity of the money used by thelegacy, and quite terminal, monetary system. After all, what if not pushing savers to spend, spend, spend and thus boost the money in circulation, was the fundamental purpose of the recent collapse in faith in savings held with European banks?

So, as we had long expected, the time when the global Keynesian status quo refocused its attention from paper gold and silver prices, to such "virtual" currencies as BitCoin has finally arrived.

The WSJ reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html?m od=djemalertNEWS) that, "the U.S. is applying money-laundering rules to "virtual currencies," amid growing concern that new forms of cash bought on the Internet are being used to fund illicit activities. The move means that firms that issue or exchange the increasingly popular online cash will now be regulated in a similar manner as traditional money-order providers such as Western Union Co. They would have new bookkeeping requirements and mandatory reporting for transactions of more than $10,000. Moreover, firms that receive legal tender in exchange for online currencies or anyone conducting a transaction on someone else's behalf would be subject to new scrutiny, said proponents of Internet currencies.

And just like that, there goes a major part of the allure of all those virtual currencies such as BitCoin that consumers had turned to, and away from such rapidly devaluing units of exchange as the dollar and euro. Because if there was one medium of exchange that was untouched, unregulated, and unmediated by the US government and other authoritarian, despotic regimes around the insolvent "developed world", it was precisely transactions involving BitCoin.

That is no longer the case, as the bloodhound of the Federal Reserve has now turned its attention toward BitCoin, and will not stop until it crashes both its value to end-users, and its utility, in yet another attempt to force the USD, and other fiat, upon global consumers as the only forms of allowed legal tender.
More from the WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html?m od=djemalertNEWS):


The rising popularity of virtual currencies, while no more than a drop in the bucket of global liquidity, is being fueled by Internet merchants, as well as users' concerns about privacy, jitters about traditional currencies in Europe and the age-old need to move money for illicit purposes.

The arm of the Treasury Department that fights money laundering said Monday that the standard federal banking rules aimed at suspicious dollar transfers also apply to firms that issue or exchange money that isn't linked to any government and exists only online.


Naturally, the actual object of US monetary persecution, is BitCoin:


"We are beyond the stage where this was just funny money and a fun online thing. This is used as a currency," said Nicolas Christin, associate director of Carnegie Mellon University's Information Networking Institute.

Bitcoins can be used in a host of legitimate transactions—for example, website Reddit allows users to upgrade services using bitcoins and blog service Wordpress.com's store accepts them as a form of payment. Pizzaforcoins.com also lets bitcoin savers pay for deliveries through Domino's and other pizzerias.


The problem with virtual currencies is that defining what is permitted in a narrow regulatory sense, is impossible, which is why any definition willbe as broad as possible: after all what better way to spook users than to make virtually any transaction borderline illegal:


Creating clear-cut rules for virtual currencies is difficult. A FinCen official said that anti-money-laundering rules would apply depending on the "factors and circumstances" of each business. The rules don't apply to individuals who simply use virtual currencies to purchase real or virtual goods.

The new guidance "clarifies definitions and expectations to ensure that businesses…are aware of their regulatory responsibilities," said Jennifer Shasky Calvery, FinCen director.

The FBI report last year said Bitcoin attracts cybercriminals who want to move or steal funds. "Bitcoin might also logically attract money launderers and other criminals who avoid traditional financial systems by using the Internet to conduct global monetary transfers," the report said. An FBI spokeswoman declined to comment when asked about the agency's concerns regarding virtual currencies.


We were not the only ones to expect imminent intervention from Big Brother:


Some firms say they anticipated the rules. Charlie Sherm, chief executive of bitcoin payment processor BitInstant, said his company is already compliant.

Mr. Christin of Carnegie Mellon said that he believes Bitcoin's dominant use right now is speculation.

"When you have a commodity or currency whose value has grown as rapidly as Bitcoin it makes sense to hold on to it as a speculative instrument," he said. It also is commonly used for online black markets or gambling sites. "Whether used for money laundering…there is no smoking gun."


As to the question of timing - why now - the answer is simple. Europe. After all, it was only yesterday that we wrote that "In Spain, The Bitcoin Run Has Started (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-20/spain-bitcoin-run-has-started)." It is self-explanatory that if such an exodus away from legacy currencies and into BitCoin was left unchecked, more and more people would follow suit, which is why it had to be intercepted as early as possible.


The jump in the bitcoin exchange rate this week also coincides with concerns euros could be taken from retail bank accounts in Cyprus to fund a bailout.
Internet blogs say speculators are looking toward currency alternatives.


Well, if internet blogs say... Of course, internet blogs also say that if and when the fascination with virtual currencies fizzles, all those who are disgusted with the abuse of fiat will not cease from seeking USD, EUR, JPY, GBP and CHF alternatives, but will merely go back to the safety of having hard assets as a currency, namely silver and gold, instead of electronic ones and zeroes, which the US government, in all its Orwellian benevolence may one day, for lack of a better word, hack right out of existence.

On the other hand, the regime's desperation is reaching such a level that a Executive Order 6102 (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/what-30-years-gold-confiscation-us-government-looks)-type confiscation of all hard asset currencies may not be far behind.
Because forewarned, is forearmed.

chad
22nd March 2013, 05:26 AM
owned!

Ares
22nd March 2013, 08:07 AM
owned!

That's dealing with the exchanges. Setup a server / exchange in a country that isn't friendly to U.S. interest. Problem solved. The beauty of BitCoin is that it is without borders. No country can lay claim to it. Which frightens central banks.

In a legal sense, I honestly can't see how they can claim jurisdiction over BitCoin to try and prosecute money laundering. They can only do that over their own currency. You don't see the U.S. government prosecuting anyone for money laundering Yen, or Euro's, just dollars.

madfranks
22nd March 2013, 08:13 AM
The WSJ reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html?m od=djemalertNEWS) that, "the U.S. is applying money-laundering rules to "virtual currencies," amid growing concern that new forms of cash bought on the Internet are being used to fund illicit activities. The move means that firms that issue or exchange the increasingly popular online cash will now be regulated in a similar manner as traditional money-order providers such as Western Union Co. They would have new bookkeeping requirements and mandatory reporting for transactions of more than $10,000. Moreover, firms that receive legal tender in exchange for online currencies or anyone conducting a transaction on someone else's behalf would be subject to new scrutiny, said proponents of Internet currencies.

Good for them. The US can only apply money-laundering rules where it has jurisdiction. If you own a bitcoin "firm" or "exchange" outside the US, why would you be beholden to US rules regarding bookkeeping or mandatory reporting?

Mouse
22nd March 2013, 08:34 AM
So someone has an exchange offshore. How do I get fiatski's out of my US bank to purchase the BTC from foreign exchange, and then how do I convert the BTC back to USD paper or FRN digits in order to physically or electronically put back into my US bank so I can say, pay bills, without being reported? I don't see how you can get in and out of BTC in any realistic amount without triggering an alarm. Maybe I need some beginner lessons :)

Being offshore is fine money-exchange, but doesn't really help me in any meaningful way.

Ares
22nd March 2013, 08:54 AM
So someone has an exchange offshore. How do I get fiatski's out of my US bank to purchase the BTC from foreign exchange, and then how do I convert the BTC back to USD paper or FRN digits in order to physically or electronically put back into my US bank so I can say, pay bills, without being reported? I don't see how you can get in and out of BTC in any realistic amount without triggering an alarm. Maybe I need some beginner lessons :)

Being offshore is fine money-exchange, but doesn't really help me in any meaningful way.

Just don't go through an electronic medium to change your bitcoins into the currency of your choice. Look on Craigslist for people purchasing bitcoins, or browse the bitcoin forums.. Move the bitcoins from the exchange to your wallet. Converse and work out a deal. The only downside is without using an exchange for the escrow you run a higher risk of a scammer saying they'll pay x-amount for a bitcoin only to greatly reduce or not pay at all or vice versa.

If they go this route, I would envision an off shore bitcoin exchange allowing transferring of coins to another person using the escrow method. So and so sends x-amount of FRN's to Billy's paypal account, once received released escrow.

So and so worked on my house / car / computer I owe him such and such, and pays via paypal, dwolla, or anything else you'd like.

Ares
22nd March 2013, 09:15 AM
Today, we are all money transmitters… (no, really!)

Patrick Murck Mar 19 2013

FinCEN shook us all from our Monday afternoon stupor by dropping some provocative “guidance” for those involved in the business and use of digital currencies and, in particular those of us involved with the grand experiment that is Bitcoin.

You can and should read what FinCEN had to say for yourself here.

Upon an initial reading two things struck me:

FinCEN firmly believes that virtual currency in general, and bitcoin in particular, does not fall under the pre-paid access rules.
FinCEN seems intent on recreating and expanding the pre-paid access rules for virtual currency and bitcoin under the mantle of money transmission.

I was happy to see FinCEN issue some clarity around the overly-broad pre-paid access rules and definitively state that they do not apply in the context of bitcoin. This is quite interesting because in my conversations with seasoned payments and digital currency lawyers, pre-paid access seemed to be the most likely trigger for FinCEN regulation – closely followed, of course, by money transmission.

That’s about where my happiness ended as the clear guidance quickly devolved into something a little less comprehensible.

In particular, I’m a little disheartened that FinCEN appears to be creating an entirely new regulatory scheme under the guise of “guidance.” Of course, FinCEN cannot rely on this guidance in any enforcement action, as they must readily acknowledge. Simply put, under the Administrative Procedures Act (APA), FinCEN can’t promulgate new rules without going through a notice and comment proceeding whereby the public may have their voices heard. If FinCEN would like to expand its statutory authority over “money transmitters” to include brand new categories such as “administrators” and “exchangers” of digital currency it must do so through proper rulemaking proceedings and not by fiat. I welcome that conversation.

State Money Transmitter Issues

It should also be noted at the outset, in case there is any confusion, that FinCEN’s rule-making and interpretations have no practical effect on State money transmitter laws (although FinCEN or Congress may preempt such State laws in the future). State MTB laws and enforcement is something that should be discussed, and to some degree worried about, but it’s a separate issue.

FinCEN Overreaches

Read closely FinCEN’s guidance implies that every person who has ever had any virtual currency and has ever exchanged that virtual currency for real currency may now be considered a money transmitter under the Bank Secrecy Act. That is, of course, an untenable position.

FinCEN starts going off the tracks early on, as they carefully define a “User” (not subject to MSB registration) as “a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services” as opposed to an “Exchanger” who is “a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency.” Left unsaid are any specifics around the facts and circumstances that would constitute “engaging as a business.”

What is crystal-clear is that once a person sells a single Satoshi for real currency that person is no longer a “User” and therefore not categorically exempted from MSB registration.

Later in the document as FinCEN turns its attention to discussing de-centralized virtual currencies we get the money paragraph.

In a bizarre shot across the bow at miners, FinCEN states unequivocally that “a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter.”

And then, for good measure, FinCEN completely muddies the waters by stating: “In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.”

FinCEN’s position as it relates to bitcoin can be summed up as follows:

A person may spend money to purchase bitcoin or mine bitcoin and then exchange the currency for goods and/or services without having to register with FinCEN as an MSB.
If a person receives real money in exchange for their bitcoin they MAY have to register with FinCEN.
If a miner exchanges their mined bitcoin for real money they MUST register with FinCEN.
Anyone transacting bitcoin on someone else’s behalf MUST register with FinCEN.

This framework would wildly expand the reach of FinCEN and the BSA, and would be infeasable for many, if not most, members of the bitcoin community to comply with. An individual or micro-business cannot be expected to create a robust AML/KYC program anytime they sell 1 or 100 bitcoin on an exchange or in-person. The BSA was never intended to apply this broadly and reach this far into people’s everyday lives. Perhaps a little more guidance is needed.


https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=152

vacuum
22nd March 2013, 10:30 AM
This is an exciting time. What happens when no one has any money to buy things from each other? Well bitcoin or another virtual currency could fill that void.

If they were to empty all our bank accounts, would people start buying and selling in bitcoins?

The massive war with the entertainment industry over piracy has shown that trying to regulate and enforce what packets people can and can't send to each other is a losing battle. What happens is the more they squeeze, the more the technology evolves. I hope they come down hard and fast on bitcoin and kill it. Then the next generation will fix all the mistakes that bitcoin had.

The only chance they have is serious thug-like prosecutions and convictions.

mick silver
22nd March 2013, 11:16 AM
you guys need to ask yourselfs just how many wars have we been in to stop countrys from leaving the usa buck . this will end back for the owners of bitcoin .

Mouse
22nd March 2013, 11:19 AM
Just don't go through an electronic medium to change your bitcoins into the currency of your choice. Look on Craigslist for people purchasing bitcoins, or browse the bitcoin forums.. Move the bitcoins from the exchange to your wallet. Converse and work out a deal. The only downside is without using an exchange for the escrow you run a higher risk of a scammer saying they'll pay x-amount for a bitcoin only to greatly reduce or not pay at all or vice versa.

If they go this route, I would envision an off shore bitcoin exchange allowing transferring of coins to another person using the escrow method. So and so sends x-amount of FRN's to Billy's paypal account, once received released escrow.

So and so worked on my house / car / computer I owe him such and such, and pays via paypal, dwolla, or anything else you'd like.

This is where the problem is, and it's funny you mention Paypal. My thoughts were that in order to avoid being reported on a $10,000 or just a general SAR from your local banksters, you would need to cover your cash tracks both into and out of BTC. Two ways I can think of: One - buy PM's and trade them for BTC from a dealer or individual; or two: buy with a credit card or Paypal. In order to get it back into USD and your bank, you need to sell BTC to someone for a paypal payment or for physical PM. Then you need to get the Paypal or PM into cash and into the bank. Paypal will probably report you to the FEDS in both directions, but most definitely when you get a big lump of cash in when you sell. Then you have counterparty risk with those Paypal fuckers, and someday maybe you get a CHECK and go put it in the bank who reports you. Or you have some PM's you have to sell for cash and then figure out how to get the cash into the bank, or into money orders or whatever to be able to pay your bills.

It's just not practical to move in and out of USD, at least not in the US. Let's say I want to hedge $50,000 from exposure to "the bank". I decide to interact on a Face-to-face transaction with some shady cat from Craigslist - I have to get cash or PM's. So I go to the bank and ask for $50,000 in cash. Not going to happen. So I go to the bank with the shady cat from CL and we sit there in the managers office. I verify to him that I have wired money to his account. He sends the bitcoins. If he is legit, I get the bitcoins on my phone or whatever in 5 minutes. If he is not legit, I have to explain to the banker to cancel the wire (I don't think they can), or I have to kidnap my BTC counterparty that just ripped me off and either get hard cash from him at point of gun or convince him to go to his bank and wire back the funds at point of gun. Now if you don't think this is going to get some SAR's filled out, I don't know what will. For now assume the transaction goes through and I have the BTC....

Or I have to go wire money to my dealer and wait for USPS/UPS to deliver the shiny. Then I meet up with shady CL guy and hope the transaction goes through and nobody gets shot in the process. For now assume the transaction goes through and I have the BTC.

So I go make a few wallets and stick them around here and there. Now I decide I need my $50,000 back because I need to pay off my mortgage or buy a new truck or something. How do I get it back into fiats? I have to go be the shady craigslist guy now. So I meet up with someone that wants to buy $50,000 in BTC and we meetup at the starbucks. He shows me the $50k, I send the blocks, he gets his receipt, and nobody gets killed. But as we are leaving a SWAT team van pulls into the parking lot and goons from FinCen jump out with their full auto and riot gear. I just was a unregistered money transferor or whatever. I am under arrest.

OR, Everything is fine and I get my 50k in funny money and then I have to pay my mortgage off. I can't just waltz into the post office or the wawa store and ask for a 50k money order (I don't think). And I can take it to the bank, but then they are going to fill out a SAR, and if there was appreciation in BTC during my holding period I also probably have a tax issue. So then I have to structure the money to get my mortgage paid off (which could probably be done with postal money orders and trips to the bank over several months).

It's just not practical.

Now if I want to get my money out, and leave the country and move to Singapore, this makes sense. I wire money to whoever exchange or otherwise come up with the BTC and I ditch the US. Once I am in singapore I go to exchange and get whatever Bhats or whatever they use and I am good to go. It would seem to only be useful for small puchases of goods/services, or purchases of illicit goods, or getting the hell out of the country. Otherwise you have a high risk of get killed, or caught.

vacuum
22nd March 2013, 03:11 PM
This is where the problem is, and it's funny you mention Paypal. My thoughts were that in order to avoid being reported on a $10,000 or just a general SAR from your local banksters, you would need to cover your cash tracks both into and out of BTC. Two ways I can think of: One - buy PM's and trade them for BTC from a dealer or individual; or two: buy with a credit card or Paypal. In order to get it back into USD and your bank, you need to sell BTC to someone for a paypal payment or for physical PM. Then you need to get the Paypal or PM into cash and into the bank. Paypal will probably report you to the FEDS in both directions, but most definitely when you get a big lump of cash in when you sell. Then you have counterparty risk with those Paypal fuckers, and someday maybe you get a CHECK and go put it in the bank who reports you. Or you have some PM's you have to sell for cash and then figure out how to get the cash into the bank, or into money orders or whatever to be able to pay your bills.

It's just not practical to move in and out of USD, at least not in the US. Let's say I want to hedge $50,000 from exposure to "the bank". I decide to interact on a Face-to-face transaction with some shady cat from Craigslist - I have to get cash or PM's. So I go to the bank and ask for $50,000 in cash. Not going to happen. So I go to the bank with the shady cat from CL and we sit there in the managers office. I verify to him that I have wired money to his account. He sends the bitcoins. If he is legit, I get the bitcoins on my phone or whatever in 5 minutes. If he is not legit, I have to explain to the banker to cancel the wire (I don't think they can), or I have to kidnap my BTC counterparty that just ripped me off and either get hard cash from him at point of gun or convince him to go to his bank and wire back the funds at point of gun. Now if you don't think this is going to get some SAR's filled out, I don't know what will. For now assume the transaction goes through and I have the BTC....

Or I have to go wire money to my dealer and wait for USPS/UPS to deliver the shiny. Then I meet up with shady CL guy and hope the transaction goes through and nobody gets shot in the process. For now assume the transaction goes through and I have the BTC.

So I go make a few wallets and stick them around here and there. Now I decide I need my $50,000 back because I need to pay off my mortgage or buy a new truck or something. How do I get it back into fiats? I have to go be the shady craigslist guy now. So I meet up with someone that wants to buy $50,000 in BTC and we meetup at the starbucks. He shows me the $50k, I send the blocks, he gets his receipt, and nobody gets killed. But as we are leaving a SWAT team van pulls into the parking lot and goons from FinCen jump out with their full auto and riot gear. I just was a unregistered money transferor or whatever. I am under arrest.

OR, Everything is fine and I get my 50k in funny money and then I have to pay my mortgage off. I can't just waltz into the post office or the wawa store and ask for a 50k money order (I don't think). And I can take it to the bank, but then they are going to fill out a SAR, and if there was appreciation in BTC during my holding period I also probably have a tax issue. So then I have to structure the money to get my mortgage paid off (which could probably be done with postal money orders and trips to the bank over several months).

It's just not practical.

Now if I want to get my money out, and leave the country and move to Singapore, this makes sense. I wire money to whoever exchange or otherwise come up with the BTC and I ditch the US. Once I am in singapore I go to exchange and get whatever Bhats or whatever they use and I am good to go. It would seem to only be useful for small puchases of goods/services, or purchases of illicit goods, or getting the hell out of the country. Otherwise you have a high risk of get killed, or caught.

It seems to me that the ideal solution for this is for bullion dealers to also be bitcoin dealers.

The issue you are describing as a lot to do with trust, and bullion dealers have that trust. You give or send them cash and you receive metal. Tulving, apmex, your local dealer, etc, have built this reputation. They also have employees which they similarly have to trust in their shops.

If these bullion dealers also went into bitcoin, they could charge a spread just like they do for gold and silver coins. It would probably be less than physical because there aren't the issues of physically transporting, insuring, and protecting them.

You go into a coin shop and trade your 1 oz of gold for however many bitcoins you want or visa versa.

No shady guys, banks, or even FRNs required.

I sure hope dealers see the value in this and start doing it. There would also be huge synergy in advertising and convenience. Old timers wouldn't need to worry about getting scammed online and losing their money, and they'd be a lot more inclined to buy bitcoins because previously it was too difficult. Younger, more tech-savvy people, would have to show up at the coin shop to get their bitcoins, and they'd be very likely to grab some of the shiny stuff while they're there.

We should try to convince our local guys to start doing it, tell them there is a demand.

It seems like a great business model. Cash your paycheck and head down to the coin shop. Buy metals with money you aren't planning on spending in the next 2 weeks, and with the rest buy bitcoins for daily expenses. Coin dealers have the reputation, cash flow, and market to make this work.

Ares
22nd March 2013, 03:48 PM
Vacuum-

There is a bullion dealer that already has the BTC to gold/silver. :)

http://www.coinabul.com/

vacuum
22nd March 2013, 04:38 PM
Vacuum-

There is a bullion dealer that already has the BTC to gold/silver. :)

http://www.coinabul.com/

Good. Now we just need it at a local level for privacy and convenience.

Golden
22nd March 2013, 09:55 PM
You give or send them cash and you receive metal.


No shady guys, banks, or even FRNs required.

*cough

A derivative of a derivative is a derivative.

J6P is like what???

Twisted Titan
22nd March 2013, 10:34 PM
If anything is Tangible YOU OWN IT.

If anything is Digital THEY OWN IT.

Jewboo
23rd March 2013, 06:01 AM
Now I decide I need my $50,000 back because I need to pay off my mortgage or buy a new truck or something. How do I get it back into fiats? I have to go be the shady craigslist guy now. So I meet up with someone that wants to buy $50,000 in BTC and we meetup at the starbucks. He shows me the $50k, I send the blocks, he gets his receipt, and nobody gets killed. But as we are leaving a SWAT team van pulls into the parking lot and goons from FinCen jump out with their full auto and riot gear. I just was a unregistered money transferor or whatever. I am under arrest.

OR, Everything is fine and I get my 50k in funny money and then I have to pay my mortgage off. I can't just waltz into the post office or the wawa store and ask for a 50k money order (I don't think). And I can take it to the bank, but then they are going to fill out a SAR, and if there was appreciation in BTC during my holding period I also probably have a tax issue. So then I have to structure the money to get my mortgage paid off (which could probably be done with postal money orders and trips to the bank over several months).

It's just not practical.



Exactly.

govcheetos
23rd March 2013, 12:55 PM
Seems similar to Mouse's description...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9NWxr8lHzMA

PatColo
24th March 2013, 05:33 AM
http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/tjeweb.jpg

US Treasury Jews Target Web Money (http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=805)
By Brother Nathanael KapnerCopyright 2013
March 23, 2013
___________________________________
http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/webjewt.jpg


A BACK DOOR INTO INTERNET CONTROL has finally been weaseled into by the Jews at the US Department of Treasury.

For no sooner did the Jew, Jacob Lew, take charge (http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/01/jack-lew-nominated-for-treasury-secretary-567.html) of the Treasury, controlling the Internet became his very first order of the day.

With his fellow Jew, Neal Wolin (http://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/Pages/wolin-e.aspx), Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, along with (yes, Jews) David Cohen (http://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/Pages/cohen-e.aspx)/Daniel Glaser (http://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/Pages/glaser-e.aspx), Under Secretaries for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, Lew decided (http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/computing/networks/us-treasury-to-bitcoin-we-are-watching) that money laundering rules (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html) should apply to all Web Money…including (http://www.salon.com/2013/03/22/a_libertarian_nightmare_bitcoin_meets_big_governme nt/) the growing Internet trading privacy-oriented currency known as Bitcoin.

more: http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=805