Atlas Shrugged was 180 degrees off the mark

[Hillbilly]

I've been watching the Atlas Shrugged movies and it's good but not quite right. The problem is not the Put upon Tycoons that are being over burdened by taxes and regulation it's the middle class that needs and is going "John Galt" I think that's why so many are saying fuck it and living in an rv or camper or building tiny houses on junk land.

The tycoons are part of the government system, and this movie makes it look like they are the victims, when in reality they are the victimizers. They would not be able to get rich with out our labor and sacrifice of blood and family.

I think if enough people from the middle class went "John Galt" that things might really change. And if not at least they would be under their own power and free.

[Jewboo]

The tycoons are part of the government system...



https://www.nytimes.com/images/2013/03/23/world/23prexy1-cnd/23prexy1-cnd-articleLarge.jpg

Tycoons standing over the groveling leader of Government.

[Jewboo]

http://youtu.be/7uPq9QsE0Eo

The elitist zionist jew who wrote Atlas Shrugged schools the goyim.

[Jewboo]

http://hesomagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/David-Hume-Kennerly-Gerald-R.-Ford-Library.jpg

President Ford serving jew Ayn Rand and jew Alan Greenspan kosher tea at the White House.

http://www.menwithfoilhats.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Alan_Greenspan_Ayn_Rand.jpg

Jew Ayn Rand taught the future jew Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

http://www.godspy.com/images/uploads/greenspan_400.jpg

Goyim Government honoring jew banker.

http://dailybail.com/storage/610x.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1251718743942

" Have the goyim government bailout our jew banks..."

[VX1]

Seems that Rand would consider us "savages" for not wanting to be chipped, tracked and targetted by their new technology... oh, and racist too. Quite an irony for nasty zionist gypsies like that to consider us subhuman... it's called "projection" (least that's what Freud, another zionist gypsy, called it).

[gunDriller]

an engineer friend married the daughter of a wealthy banker & inherited a bank, on whose board they sit.

he spends most of his time playing golf. he says Bill O'Reilly (Fox News) is "middle of the road".

AND - he gave me a copy of Atlas Shrugged, Books on Tape. the reader/narrator sucked, i got about 1/2 chapter into it and stopped listening.

seems like he was trying to coach me on the legitimacy of his new-found political beliefs. "us rich people don't have to worry about commoners".


to me it's like a book that rich people use to justify being selfish & greedy. sort of a guide for the Shabbas Goy, perhaps ?

[woodman]

You've got it Hillbilly. The whole book makes a lot of sense but when you look deeper, you see that it is a trap. It is just another angle for the rich to maintain their control. In the book they are taking their ball and going home. Just like a kid who is tired of being shoved around. Thing is, it is the rich who are shoving the rich around. It is a fake class war. An Hegellian dialectic if you will. They are all looters.

[gunDriller]

i thought the basic idea of the book is, {metaphorically speaking} Atlas tries to help the poor people, finds that it is a futile effort, and shrugs.

[Carl]

I thought that the basic idea of the book was, predatory, monopolistic Corporate Mercantilism, in league with their benefactors, the banksters and government, control enough of our economic activity that, with little effort, they can bring a nation's economy to its knees if you piss them off or if they don't get what they want, which is the unfettered ability to continue raping and pillaging local sustainable free/private enterprise built economies and installing their commercialized system of dependency.

[Neuro]

http://youtu.be/7uPq9QsE0Eo

The elitist zionist jew who wrote Atlas Shrugged schools the goyim.
Those RACIST Arab SAVAGES, who murders the INNOCENT, CIVILIZED Jews in Israel... CHUTZPAH manouver Objectivism...

[PatColo]

AND - he gave me a copy of Atlas Shrugged, Books on Tape. the reader/narrator sucked, i got about 1/2 chapter into it and stopped listening.

funny, I had the exact same experience- given the books on tape version, couldn't get through a single tape. At a minimum they needed multiple narrators for the characters!

with the Amazon reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand/dp/0452011876/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8), you can pose like you've actually suffered through the book. \uu\

[Hatha Sunahara]

Ayn Rand is to Capitalism what Jim Jones was to religion. Pure mind control propaganda. The only thing of value I got from her was her description of Collectivism. That to her was the enemy. But she missed the mark entirely. Capitalism is just a better way of fooling the slaves into being happy with their slavery. Work hard and you will get rich.

No you won't. What gets you rich is being in favor with the 'owners'. The beneficiaries of this system of usury and compound interest. They own everything. Kiss their asses and you might get rich. If you are an entrepreneur and have an idea useful to them, you will likely get a call from InQTel. This is a front company for the CIA. It's how Bill Gates got rich. Also, Mark Zuckerberg. They approached the guy that developed Bitcoins:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-81DBWOkE6c

Ayn Rand was wrapped up in her own 'philosophy' so much that she tolerated no criticism. There is a great article by Murray Rothbard who hung out briefly with Ayn Rand until he discovered what her whole movement really was and then he quit hanging with her.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard23.html

I was an Ayn Rand junkie for a while. Made me feel smart. Then I opened my eyes. Capitalism, her ideal, is just another way to manage slaves. I haven't run into a serious system for managing free people other that what the Founding Fathers of America came up with: The constitution.


Hatha

[govcheetos]

I have three of her books in paperback.

I cut out the publisher/ editor/author royalties/Barnes and Noble/sales tax by buying them at a garage sale for 50 cents each.

Paid cash.

How's that for going Galt? :cool:

Haven't been able to get more than a chapter or so into them though. I have a rule that if a book doesn't interest me in the first 50 pages it's not worth my time here on earth trying to read it. Lots of better things to be doing. I try to read books that educate me or are an enjoyable escape. Save my doom and gloom for here.;D

[gunDriller]

funny, I had the exact same experience- given the books on tape version, couldn't get through a single tape. At a minimum they needed multiple narrators for the characters!

the reader makes all the difference with Books on Tape.

the best reader i've heard is Jim Dale, who read the Harry Potter series. he's brilliant at creating hundreds of different voices for hundreds of different characters, male and female, though with a British accent.

i'm not sure if it's possible to enliven Atlas Shrugged enough to make it worth a listen, but if there's anyone who could do it, it would be Jim Dale.


"The book explores a dystopian United States where many of society's most productive citizens refuse to be exploited by increasing taxation and government regulations and disappear, shutting down their vital industries. The disappearances evoke the imagery of what would happen if the mythological Atlas refused to continue to hold up the world. They are led by John Galt. Galt describes the disappearances as "stopping the motor of the world" by withdrawing the minds that drive society's growth and productivity. In their efforts, these people "of the mind" hope to demonstrate that a world in which the individual is not free to create and profit is doomed, that civilization cannot exist where every person is a slave to society and government, and that the destruction of the profit motive leads to the collapse of society. The protagonist, Dagny Taggart, sees society collapse around her as the government increasingly asserts control over all industry."

doesn't that sound like Obama and Bush/ Cheney.

[Hillbilly]

there is supposed to be a third movie coming out, but I'm done. I was so sick by the time I got to the end of the second movie of these Crybaby rich people complaining that they got rich "all on their own" and how it is not fair to have to be fair is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone amasses a fortune with out stepping on people and using people not has human beings but as tools.

The rich of today are merely the Lords of Old and their Masters are The ones who Control and set the value of money just as they always have.

[Horn]

https://www.nytimes.com/images/2013/03/23/world/23prexy1-cnd/23prexy1-cnd-articleLarge.jpg

Tycoons standing over the groveling leader of Government.



President Obama wrapped up his trip to Israel and the West Bank on Friday with visits to three symbolic pilgrimage sites: First he laid a stone on the grave of Theodor Herzl, the father of modern Zionism, then he laid a wreath and a stone on the grave of Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli leader assassinated in 1995. Finally, Obama made a somber visit to the Holocaust memorial Yad Vashem.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/03/22/175022929/obama-closes-trip-to-israel-west-bank-with-memorial-visits

[LuckyStrike]

I've been watching the Atlas Shrugged movies and it's good but not quite right. The problem is not the Put upon Tycoons that are being over burdened by taxes and regulation it's the middle class that needs and is going "John Galt" I think that's why so many are saying fuck it and living in an rv or camper or building tiny houses on junk land.

The tycoons are part of the government system, and this movie makes it look like they are the victims, when in reality they are the victimizers. They would not be able to get rich with out our labor and sacrifice of blood and family.

I think if enough people from the middle class went "John Galt" that things might really change. And if not at least they would be under their own power and free.

Ms Rosenbaum like to perpetuate the myth that capitalism is different from communism. Both systems have an elite ruling the system who live large on the production of the slaves. Both need to exist together to prop up the paradigm, much like Repubs and Dems.

[PatColo]

haven't listened to this podcast yet, sounds enticing:

Robert Stark Interviews Anthony Migchels 2013.03.20 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2013/03/robert-stark-interviews-anthony.html)

https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2009/6/21/1245612075001/The-Money-Lenders-001.jpg (https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2009/6/21/1245612075001/The-Money-Lenders-001.jpg)




Robert Stark interviews interest-free currency activist Anthony Migchels. His website is Real Currencies (https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/).
Topics discussed include:


The essence of capitalism
Satanism as Ayn Rand’s Objectivism plus rituals
How the wealth of monopolies is based on a lie
The Catholic arm of usury and libertarianism
The intellectual framework of the great hoax known as libertarianism
The basic ideas of Keynesian economics
The “End the Fed” movement as false front
Public Banking as not interest free
The Yaka Bank of Sweden; its four principles
Usury as prohibitive of long term investment
The affiliation of anti-usury movements with anti-Semitism


Robert Stark (http://www.counter-currents.com/)
Anthony Migchels (https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/)

Download (http://cdn.counter-currents.com/radio/TST-Anthony_Migchels-20121122.mp3)

[PatColo]

haven't listened to this podcast yet, sounds enticing:

Robert Stark Interviews Anthony Migchels 2013.03.20 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2013/03/robert-stark-interviews-anthony.html)

https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2009/6/21/1245612075001/The-Money-Lenders-001.jpg (https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2009/6/21/1245612075001/The-Money-Lenders-001.jpg)




Robert Stark interviews interest-free currency activist Anthony Migchels. His website is Real Currencies (https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/).
Topics discussed include:


The essence of capitalism
Satanism as Ayn Rand’s Objectivism plus rituals
How the wealth of monopolies is based on a lie
The Catholic arm of usury and libertarianism
The intellectual framework of the great hoax known as libertarianism
The basic ideas of Keynesian economics
The “End the Fed” movement as false front
Public Banking as not interest free
The Yaka Bank of Sweden; its four principles
Usury as prohibitive of long term investment
The affiliation of anti-usury movements with anti-Semitism


Robert Stark (http://www.counter-currents.com/)
Anthony Migchels (https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/)

Download (http://cdn.counter-currents.com/radio/TST-Anthony_Migchels-20121122.mp3)

[vacuum]

Those RACIST Arab SAVAGES, who murders the INNOCENT, CIVILIZED Jews in Israel... CHUTZPAH manouver Objectivism...

TERRORISM! she was way ahead of the curve

[LuckyStrike]

I don't think anyone amasses a fortune with out stepping on people and using people not has human beings but as tools.


This is one of those subjects I've wanted to study for some time. I often wonder who is the richest person who is decent? For example guys like Jim Rogers say a lot of good things and I enjoy his insight but lest we forget he was partnered with Soros. The rest of the billionaires seemingly play the game, scheme the system and have no problem erecting barriers of entry while preaching about free markets.

Do you think there is someone who has 500 mill and is an honestly good person?

[Hillbilly]

This is one of those subjects I've wanted to study for some time. I often wonder who is the richest person who is decent? For example guys like Jim Rogers say a lot of good things and I enjoy his insight but lest we forget he was partnered with Soros. The rest of the billionaires seemingly play the game, scheme the system and have no problem erecting barriers of entry while preaching about free markets.

Do you think there is someone who has 500 mill and is an honestly good person?

I honestly don't believe you get even a Million dollars with out seriously "Using" people unless you get it by winning the lottery.

[Neuro]

I think it is possible to be a good person, if you inherited massive wealth, but probably you won't keep it in that case...

[gunDriller]

This is one of those subjects I've wanted to study for some time. I often wonder who is the richest person who is decent? For example guys like Jim Rogers say a lot of good things and I enjoy his insight but lest we forget he was partnered with Soros. The rest of the billionaires seemingly play the game, scheme the system and have no problem erecting barriers of entry while preaching about free markets.

Do you think there is someone who has 500 mill and is an honestly good person?


i think some of the early Silicon Valley entrepreneurs who succeeded via their own hard work.

Wozniak at Apple is one example.


Carl Rosendahl, the founder of the company that became Dreamworks, would be another. He started the company as soon as he graduated from college (1979). they were on the leading edge of computer graphics for 2 decades, using hardware & software created by Carl & his co-founders.

this was back when their was no Radius Video Vision for Video In/ Video Out. when there were no animation programs like 3D Max, Maya, or Blender. when there were no Video Capture, Compositing & Rendering programs like Adobe Premier or Sony Vegas.

Carl & the other Pacific Data Images co-founders created all that technology from scratch, starting about a dozen years before Pixar was even an idea in someone's head.

Then they sold out to Spielberg, Katzenberg etc. in the late '90's, early '00's.

by the time Shrek 2 came out (2004), Carl no longer had an active role. I'm sure he earned at least $500 Mill., both from income earned at PDI, and then from the sale of the company.


another example of where it didn't work out was Wiltron/ Anritsu. the company was built on the back of an engineer named Bill Oldfield. It could not have existed without him. Bill Jarvis was the name of the founder, skilled but no Oldfield.

Jarvis got about $94 Million, & Oldfield about $8 Million, when the company was bought by Anritsu in about 1990.

so that was not such a happy story. Jarvis worked hard but Oldfield was the hard-working genius.

The tools that Wiltron/Anritsu developed in the 1980's enabled the wireless 'revolution' of the '90's & '00's.

no Vector Network Analyzers and Broadband Microwave Synthesizers, no cell-phones.


from 1980 to 2010, Silicon Valley transitioned from being a definite meritocracy, to one where Jewish entrepreneurs & software thieves were heavily favored.

today, you would have to be very skilled, smart, and/or lucky to make that $500 Mill. without the blessing of the Silicon Valley Powers that be.

one possible example is Instagram. developed mainly by one guy, then purchased by Facebook for $1 Billion. i think that Instagram founder guy earned his 'bread'.


an early example is Robert Carr. he wrote the program that became Framework in the early 1980's, then sold it to Ashton-Tate for $4 Million when $4 Million was real money. Framework was like an early version of the Microsoft Office Suite, designed to run well on 8088 CPU computers.

Robert was a Christian. Oldfield was definitely not Jewish. not sure about Rosendahl.

[Hatha Sunahara]

I think there is a point one reaches in the process of accumulating wealth where the focus shifts away from ways of creating wealth and becomes centered on the wealth itself--that is, on ways of increasing it, or on keeping it. Once that shift happens, it tends to rot your being from the inside out. Nobody who is 'successful' can avoid this transition. I call this the shift from creativity to 'ownership'. People who 'own' don't create. People who create don't 'own'. It's what separates the 99% from the <1%. Generally, ownership is associated with greed and a corrupted soul. People who accumulate wealth and fail to make this transition do not keep their wealth because they aren't 'owners'.

There is another famous fellow who will validate this view here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mWAxHpeew


Hatha

[Jewboo]

I think there is a point one reaches in the process of accumulating wealth where the focus shifts away from ways of creating wealth and becomes centered on the wealth itself--that is, on ways of increasing it, or on keeping it. Once that shift happens, it tends to rot your being from the inside out. Nobody who is 'successful' can avoid this transition. I call this the shift from creativity to 'ownership'. People who 'own' don't create. People who create don't 'own'. It's what separates the 99% from the <1%. Generally, ownership is associated with greed and a corrupted soul. People who accumulate wealth and fail to make this transition do not keep their wealth because they aren't 'owners'...



THIS (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?68205-Found-a-pretty-good-blog-Lame-Cherry-anybody-else-visit-it&p=621460&viewfull=1#post621460) blogger made similar observations in 2007.

:)

[Neuro]

Gordon Gekko is interesting, in that a gekko is a lizard... I wonder if that inspired someone in Britain to create a theory?

[Hatha Sunahara]

The shift from creativity to ownership comes when the person making that shift begins to understand certain features of ordinary human consciousness that he can exploit for personal gain. Features such as honesty, generosity, spirituality, and integrity and a sense of responsibility and an aversion to conflict. Those values which ordinary people associate with 'goodness'. Innocence. The wealthy have transcended innocence.

Bill Gates wants everybody to be vaccinated. It's a great way to reduce the population without having to take responsibility for killing large numbers of people. Ted Turner drools at ways to dispose of large numbers of people while remaining detached and unaccountable because of the protections offered by legal fictions like corporations and 'charitable trusts'. Ditto for all of them and the sycophants that surround them.

The devil uses these people to do his work. The love of money apparently is the most important tool of the devil. The second most important tool is the blindness humans have about his most important tool.


Hatha

[Santa]

The shift from creativity to ownership comes when the person making that shift begins to understand certain features of ordinary human consciousness that he can exploit for personal gain. Features such as honesty, generosity, spirituality, and integrity and a sense of responsibility and an aversion to conflict. Those values which ordinary people associate with 'goodness'. Innocence. The wealthy have transcended innocence.

Bill Gates wants everybody to be vaccinated. It's a great way to reduce the population without having to take responsibility for killing large numbers of people. Ted Turner drools at ways to dispose of large numbers of people while remaining detached and unaccountable because of the protections offered by legal fictions like corporations and 'charitable trusts'. Ditto for all of them and the sycophants that surround them.

The devil uses these people to do his work. The love of money apparently is the most important tool of the devil. The second most important tool is the blindness humans have about his most important tool.
Hatha

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."

[Libertarian_Guard]

Do you think there is someone who has 500 mill and is an honestly good person?

Herb Alpert

Self made billionaire. Never screwed over anyone that I am aware of. Until he sold A&M records, he did everything on a handshake. Around here he'll be loathe and despised for being Jewish.

[Santa]

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."

I think the word "love," at least in context to the Biblical quote above might be best defined as "fealty" toward money. That is, to allow money to become one's master, replacing one Lord for another. To become subservient to material or worldly gain. To follow or pursue material wealth at the expense of spiritual wealth.

[Neuro]

Ingvar Kamprad, the founder of IKEA, from Sweden. Interesting facts though he used to belong to the Swedish National Socialist party, until mid 1950's. About a year ago it was found out that he funnels 3% of IKEA's turnover to a private secret foundation in Lichtenstein, that he controls, it has about $15 Billion, and no taxes are payed on those money. He is in his early 90's, the interesting thing is what is going to happen to this fund when he is dead. That IMO would determine if he was good or not...

[Uncle Salty]

The general premise is correct. The industrialists easily avoid taxation through offshoring of profits and sweetheart legislation that provides exemptions.

Unions and fair wages? No problem. Just offshore that for more profits! It's cheaper to send products by boat that pay Americans to work.

It's the little business man that gets screwed.

[Jewboo]

Herb Alpert

...Never screwed over anyone that I am aware of. Until he sold A&M records, he did everything on a handshake....



http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/11/13/herb-alpert---richard-carpenter---karen-carpenter---print-001_wide-b500fe09b6d955f3ba52d130fb1b761d4b55964a-s6-c10.jpg

http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/5-2%20HerbAlpert%201-72.jpg

He made his money off Karen Carpenter. How much did she get when he sold A&M ?

:)

[joboo]

Ingvar Kamprad, the founder of IKEA, from Sweden. Interesting facts though he used to belong to the Swedish National Socialist party, until mid 1950's. About a year ago it was found out that he funnels 3% of IKEA's turnover to a private secret foundation in Lichtenstein, that he controls, it has about $15 Billion, and no taxes are payed on those money. He is in his early 90's, the interesting thing is what is going to happen to this fund when he is dead. That IMO would determine if he was good or not...

The fund will need to be assembled using a screwdriver, and the instructions will be shit.

[Neuro]

The fund will need to be assembled using a screwdriver, and the instructions will be shit.
No instructions are spot on, but most can't follow them...

[LuckyStrike]

Herb Alpert

Self made billionaire. Never screwed over anyone that I am aware of. Until he sold A&M records, he did everything on a handshake. Around here he'll be loathe and despised for being Jewish.

My problem with jewish wealth specifically in the entertainment industry is who made them? It takes a lot more than hard ass work to be wealthy. I know several people personally who are the best in their given field and are broke, they can't run a business. I know very talented musicians who never broke into the big time and likewise real shitty musicians who did, and why?

The example I always give is hollywood because it's so obvious, do jewish actors dominate hollywood because they're the best actors or do jewish owned movie studios promote their own? I think the answer is obvious.

Likewise in other fields although it's harder to prove, if you're a jewish scientist you will have a far greater chance of getting funding for your projects, if you're a jewish entrepreneur you will have a far easier time securing VC for your endeavours. I'm not downplaying jewish work ethic, but as I've said it takes more than work ethic alone to make deals happen. If you have a jew run bank and all else is equal do you think they will be more prone to give a loan to someone with the last name of Smith or Goldstein?

jewish success in business and finance is due to lack of morals for one, but also because they have racial cohesion and help their own. Even if they don't know the person. We could certainly take a page out of that play book ie "be wise as serpents and harmless as doves"

[LuckyStrike]

I think the word "love," at least in context to the Biblical quote above might be best defined as "fealty" toward money. That is, to allow money to become one's master, replacing one Lord for another. To become subservient to material or worldly gain. To follow or pursue material wealth at the expense of spiritual wealth.

Indeed, I'm guilty of that to a degree to.

I continually think of ways to make money, nothing wrong with that per se but I devote more brain power to wealth preservation and creation than I do to how can I help my brothers today. Not that I don't help, or think of ways to help others but it isn't the dominate focus.

[Uncle Salty]

Likewise in other fields although it's harder to prove, if you're a jewish scientist you will have a far greater chance of getting funding for your projects, if you're a jewish entrepreneur you will have a far easier time securing VC for your endeavours. I'm not downplaying jewish work ethic, but as I've said it takes more than work ethic alone to make deals happen. If you have a jew run bank and all else is equal do you think they will be more prone to give a loan to someone with the last name of Smith or Goldstein?


Henry Ford was on to this shit 100 years ago with his International Jew problem.

[PatColo]

The shift from creativity to ownership comes when the person making that shift begins to understand certain features of ordinary human consciousness that he can exploit for personal gain. Features such as honesty, generosity, spirituality, and integrity and a sense of responsibility and an aversion to conflict. Those values which ordinary people associate with 'goodness'. Innocence. The wealthy have transcended innocence.

can someone remind me of that story of a certain bird species where there's 3 "personalities" among them? They need to help each other by picking ticks (or something) off the top of their heads, not physically reachable by the individual birds. So the types were the pure altruists who always peck the ticks off any bird in need; a conditional one who returns favors, and the 3rd type was the pure taker who never removed the ticks off others but had theirs removed only. The middle "conditional" personality would refuse service to those they discovered were in the taker group. These 3 types combined to make a functioning... society er sumthin.

Don't know if it's a real bird phenom, or just an instructive parable. Read it at GIM1 years ago.

[Jewboo]

can someone remind me...



Reciprocal Altruism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism)


:)

[Hillbilly]

Herb Alpert

Self made billionaire. Never screwed over anyone that I am aware of. Until he sold A&M records, he did everything on a handshake. Around here he'll be loathe and despised for being Jewish.

I can guarantee you that a lot of musicians got Fucked in the Ass! by A&M Records. Herb made billions of others hard work. Wazniak with apple too. He may have been nice but the whole organization was for sure using people like toilet paper to make all those billions for him.

[Carl]

He made his money off Karen Carpenter. How much did she get when he sold A&M ?

:) How in the world did you come to that conclusion???

Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass were making Gold and Platnum ablums long before the Carpenters came along. Herb Alpert was also making sound tracks for movies such as Zorba the Greek and Casino Royale. The Carpenters may have provided him with pocket change for awhile but they did not make him his money. Hell, I was raised a poor boy in Georgia and even I was listening to Herb Alpert as a kid, my step mother had every album he put out.

[Hillbilly]

Read this book for a primer on just what really goes on at these record labels. No one owns one with out destroying lots of lives.
http://www.amazon.com/Hit-Men-Brokers-Inside-Business/dp/0679730613

[hossum]

Many of today's tycoons get there with government support. These fall into the category of looters rather than producers. Ayn Rand never classified people based on wealth, but on morality, which for her would be whether they are thinkers or non-thinkers, producers or moochers. In Atlas Shrugged, it was not the businessmen in bed with the government that shrugged, but the honest self-made producers like Rearden. So you are right that the middle class producers are as much victims as the richer ones. In fact, when the upper class is taxed out of business, we will be the new upper class. I don't see shrugging as giving up, but rather as refusing to fuel the looters and moochers. One must still take care of himself and his family.

[Santa]

Ayn Rand never classified people based on wealth, but on morality.

Yeah, Ayn Rand was a real beacon of morality amid the "upper" class. :rolleyes: