Why bitcoins will go mainstream

[vacuum]

Instant transfer, very low fees, no chargebacks, zero risk because businesses don't hold bitcoins.

This guy doesn't care whatsoever that it crashed by 75%. It doesn't affect his business.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm6aM8mIQSs



I've been posting other stuff in the virtual currencies subforum here (http://gold-silver.us/forum/forumdisplay.php?59-Virtual-Currencies), but thought more people might be interested in this.

[joboo]

Watch and see how businesses can't afford not to as the guy next door, who does, makes bank though increased sales.

It's already happening.

[gunDriller]

if his costs are "flexible", what the heck.

bars mark up drinks about 1000%, tenfold, i.e. sell them for about 10 times more than they cost. more, if you order a soft drink.

and they have significant fixed costs to deal with - unless they own the building & don't have to pay rent.


but if i was him i wouldn't accept Bitcoins for an expensive bottle of wine or champagne. but for soft drinks or beer, definitely.

[Ponce]

Whe the Fed finds out that they have heavy conpetition they will use the governmnet to shut it down, after all how much green backs are the government in the hole with the Fed?

V

[Shami-Amourae]

they will use the governmnet to shut it down

How?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckIMuvumYrg

[Santa]

Instant transfer, very low fees, no chargebacks, zero risk because businesses don't hold bitcoins.

This guy doesn't care whatsoever that it crashed by 75%. It doesn't affect his business.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm6aM8mIQSs



I've been posting other stuff in the virtual currencies subforum here (http://gold-silver.us/forum/forumdisplay.php?59-Virtual-Currencies), but thought more people might be interested in this.

That is interesting. But doesn't someone somewhere always wind up "holding the bag" of bitcoins in their bitwallet?

[joboo]

Whe the Fed finds out that they have heavy conpetition they will use the governmnet to shut it down, after all how much green backs are the government in the hole with the Fed?

V

It can't be shut down as there is nothing illegal about it. If they tried to make it illegal, it would get very interesting to see how the ramifications of that echoes outwards.

People could trade shells on the beach as currency if they wanted to. Currency can be anything agreed upon between parties. Once that reality gets tossed out the window...goodnight Irene. Lights out. World over. CTRL-ALT-DEL planet earth. ;)

[Shami-Amourae]

Three eras of currency
Commodity based, e.g. Gold
Politically based, e.g. Dollar
Math based, e.g. Bitcoin



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3cQhPBPl6w


This crash is a blessing. Buy in now while you still have a chance at these prices.

[Horn]

The finiteness of Bitcoin will elude them all,

The same finiteness that makes it attractive as a currency, is the exact measure by which it will never become one.

It will only be a speculative material as to what occurs in 2140 when it dies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urfjyj4FnUc

.gov has nothing to fear from it, if it did, they'd turn the internet into T.V.

every transfer would be filed through their servers for approval.

You cannot save something that is already dead.

[joboo]

There are gigantic security issues with the entire process that need to be addressed.

This is not going mainstream until the client is massively recoded. People are just not tech savvy enough to handle it at this point, and it's going to be one inevitable disaster after another until that time.

However there are big opportunities for coders right now.

Alternatives are starting to come out (armory), but realize the private key needs to be fed into the block chain unencrypted to complete the transaction. That's a cold thought.

I could elaborate, but my time is pressed.

[Shami-Amourae]

it's going to be one inevitable disaster after another until that time.

I agree. It will be high risk for now, but in time these things will be resolved, and it will become more stable. I think there is also a push to simplify things and make them easier to understand. All in do time.

All people like me argue is that if you believe this can be the future, why not get in on it early?

[vacuum]

Small Business Owners Say Bitcoins Better than Credit Cards

By Gabrielle Karol (http://www.foxbusiness.com/archive/author/gabrielle-karol/index.html)
Published April 12, 2013
FOXBusiness

Some small business owners using Bitcoins aren’t too worried about the digital currency’s rise and fall this week.
Here are four entrepreneurs who say the software transactions are good for business.


Stomp Romp Guitars, Manchester, NH
Stomp Romp Guitar owner Zach Harvey came across Bitcoin when he was researching an idea he had for a bartering system. He says he appreciated the idea of having full control of your money, as he never liked the fact that in Israel, where he grew up, the city could freeze accounts based on unpaid bills.
So, in 2011, when Harvey decided to move his guitar store from Tel Aviv to New Hampshire, he decided to start accepting Bitcoins.
“We’ve sold small things like strings and pedals for Bitcoins, but it’s already growing. You can feel it, and orders are dripping in,” says Harvey.
One plus? Harvey says paying with Bitcoins is even quicker than paying with PayPal or credit cards, as the payments are processed within seconds. Harvey and his brother have become so interested in the Bitcoin community that they’re actually developing the first Bitcoin ATM.
“It’s a compact desktop device, and you’ll insert US dollars or Euros or Canadian dollars. The device will tell you the price of a Bitcoin, and then you just scan your phone, and you’ll immediately have Bitcoins,” says Harvey.


Firehouse BBQ, Salt Lake City, UT
“I mine Bitcoins too, so it was a natural thing to accept them,” says Firehouse BBQ owner Tornado T. Westlund. Before barbecue became his calling, Westlund used to work in technology developing smart cards (similar to SIM cards), and he’s been interested in online currencies for years now.
“Not that many people know about Bitcoins yet,” says Westlund. But he estimates that he’s had around ten customers pay for barbecue using Bitcoins.


Café Berlin, Las Vegas, NV
Café Berlin actually decided to accept Bitcoins based on a customer’s request.
"Four or six weeks ago, a guy came in here and explained Bitcoins to us, and asked if we were interested in letting customers pay with them,” says Karina Bechtold, owner of the German transplant to Sin City.
Each week, she says a group comes in and meets for lunch – about eight to ten people – and they all pay with Bitcoins.
“They pay over the phone and send me Bitcoins, and then if we need the money we’ll transfer it into cash immediately,” says Bechtold.


Grasshill Alpacas, Haydenville, MA
Alpaca farmer David Forster describes himself as a “self-taught economist” who started hearing about Bitcoins in 2011.

“I wanted to get involved, but didn’t trust anyone enough to send an envelope of cash to get a Bitcoin, so I decided to sell socks in exchange for Bitcoins,” says Forster. Forster says that he is the first merchant to sell a product for Bitcoins.
“Bitcoin sales were a third of our sales last year for alpaca socks,” says Forster, whose socks sell for $20. “It makes international transactions as easy as interacting with your neighbor, so we’ve sold socks to dozens of countries in Europe.”
Another plus? Forster says Bitcoins don’t have the high transaction costs that come with credit cards.

[joboo]

I agree. It will be high risk for now, but in time these things will be resolved, and it will become more stable. I think there is also a push to simplify things and make them easier to understand. All in do time.

All people like me argue is that if you believe this can be the future, why not get in on it early?

The issue arises on the security and internet exposure of computer itself that you use. Look into cold storage wallets, and how/why people are doing that. The kicker is the coins are not stored in the wallet.dat file on your computer. That file is just a key to access the public block chain where everyone's coins are.

If you haven't transferred the bulk of your coins in to a cold storage wallet already it's just a matter of time before they will eventually disappear to any number of viruses that are completely undetectable to antivirus software, and already quite possibly have your private key(s), and can spend your money at any time in the future whether your computer is on or not, or where your wallet.dat file happens to be at the time. The wallet is not really a wallet, it's just a key.

[Horn]

The issue is with it going "mainstream" in the first place.

It will only open up an infinitesimal amount of other finite E-coins do to its own finiteness.

A box of shredded nothing will be the end result.

Though Ben must love the velocity it gives him in the mean time.

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waH2s720xc4

[Ponce]

Thrue out the history of the world there has been hundred and hundred of different kinds of currencies, anywhere from sea shells to birds feathers but the only currency to suvive all this time is silver and gold...

I don't know why but I keep on thinking about the different civilisations of the past and the ruins that we can see now days and what they used to look like when new.......and.....what ancients ruins from before them they used to see and so on down the line........only ruins of rocks and stones have I seen and none of steel, that tells me that ours will be long gone while theirs will be seen for more generation.

V

[joboo]

It just has to be physically tedious to produce in order to endure time. Digging earth is nasty back breaking hard work.

Right now bitcoin fits that model, but only because of how savvy one needs to be to set it up. It's intellectually back breaking.

After it's setup however it requires little effort other than supplying it with electricity.

Sadly, soon enough every block chain will die. Either by misfortune/user error....or it can be simply bought out and tossed in the garbage on purpose if you have a magic printing press that is. 21 million is peanuts.

Each one is going to be a pump and dump race to the bottom imo.

That being said, I'm mining, and will offer my services to setup new mining rigs, but I don't sugar coat it to perspective clients.

Wish it were different.

[Horn]

Wish it were different.

Step off bro, I'm getting buried with a Bitcoin flash memory piece necklace.

[joboo]

Step off bro, I'm getting buried with a Bitcoin flash memory piece necklace.

Awesome. I'll pass that on to the developers, I'm sure they could use the inspiration.

[joboo]

In the interim until private key encryption gets sorted out, grab a spare laptop or PC, install your preferred linux distro via bootable CD nuking whatever is on it. Laptop should be powered off, with power disconnected, and battery removed for a min or so. PC should also be in a powered off state beforehand.

Download the BTC LTC TRC or whatever via bitcoin.org or litecoin.org etc.. Create a wallet, download the block chain again (not necessary but nice to have..depends on the paranoia factor).

Transfer the bulk of your funds from the wallet on your "hot" computer to your new wallet. Copy/paste the public key to a text file, save and print out the QR code of same, and make a copy of the wallet.dat. to CD, paper printout, or thumb drive. Toss em in a safe place, make a few copies. I prefer to leave the wallet.dat file unencrypted at this point, your choice.

Don't insert the thumb drive into your hot PC, and back again at any point, or you should have your head checked after all this. That's all this computer is used for. It can get more paranoid than that, but this should be safe enough. Nothing from the cold computer ever touches your hot wallet computer....ever, if it does, start over.

Alternately you can live boot a linux distro on any computer via CD, download the BTC client, and create/backup the wallet, QR code, and public key, and that's it. The transfers can be verified via 3rd party website lookups on another computer, but it's nice to see the coins actually in the wallet instead of simply trusting they will be there in the offline wallet when they are sent. Depends how cold you want to make the storage. Send a tiny amount first to make sure if need be.

[Spun Gold]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176049.0

First of all, Bitcoin is going to make it to the mainstream because of the HUMAN FACTOR - Incentive. People are always talking about the pitfalls of the current system - the laggy centralized exchanges, the instability, no decentralized exchange, the fiat payment problems etc. All these problems are going to be solved over time. How? Incentive. Consider who these early adopters are. These speculators include some of the brightest technical and creative minds in the world today, all working and helping each other to solve the same problems. They all own Bitcoins, all their potential fortunes are tied to communally solving these dilemmas, they gain nothing from secrecy and competition, and they are not going to fail. See, this is very new.

Before, a startup company may have hired or included the best coders and strategists they could find, perhaps offered them future stock options to provide incentive to work harder. But these projects were not made public because they needed privacy, otherwise ideas and information might be stolen and used by possible competitors. But in doing so they missed out on the input of the world talent pool.

On the other end of the spectrum are open source Internet projects. Everybody come and work as you please. But because these projects were open to the public, there was no central company to fund any of these coders. Sure, they no doubt worked hard, as it was a hobby or a personal cause - but that nowhere near matches the Bitcoin project momentum. An open source project to replace the currency system for the financial benefit of everyone involved, with the brightest minds in the world able to hop on as they please.

So yes, you are going to have the best, brightest, and richest working towards a common goal. All the while little people - like me - cheer them on, doing whatever little things we can to help(advertising), praying that they succeed.
Microsoft, Google, IBM have never been able to match such a workforce.
We already have more "working employees", all incentivized with "stock options", than they EVER will. You must understand, this is the first project of it's kind in human history. All these petty beginning-stage problems will be overcome - why? Simply because because for the first time we all WANT them to be overcome. You must account for the solutions to problems that we don't understand yet - because they are being attacked by a motivated workforce quality we have never seen before. The problems will eventually be solved, and this is why Bitcoin will make it to the mainstream.

Now once Bitcoin does get there(or perhaps just before) we will run into a problem that many people have pointed out. Market instability. Hoarding by the rich investors, the people who have 10's of thousands of Bitcoins. Detractors rightly say that these overly rich early speculators will simply have too much damn money for there to be room for a stable economy. The graphs bounce with every move they make. However, you are still thinking in terms of the archaic currencies we use today. New systems require new ways of thinking. If this problem is obvious to you, do you not think it is obvious to them and their financial advisers as well?

In the present archaic system these activities continue because the government can just print more currency in order to balance or stimulate the economy, and keep these barons in power. Since this is not possible with Bitcoin, the ultra rich will be forced to do it out of their own pocket. No choice. It is now in their best interest - if they want to have a market to spend those billions in. They will have to spend of some of their money to stimulate the economy in order make their wealth usable, and the distribution of wealth will equal out slightly. The market will stabilize. And because there will be no bureaucracy to support these billionaires' financial staying power, finally the little people will have a chance to make their own fortunes out of hard work and ingenuity in a truly free market. The rich will have to maintain their wealth in the same way.
This is an unprecedented turn of history. It is an evolutionary stage of society that cannot be stopped. To you soon-to-be-rich: remember your responsibilities.
We are finally all in this together.



My fellow humans, Welcome to Bitcoin.

[Spun Gold]

http://qz.com/74137/six-reasons-why-chinese-people-will-drive-the-next-bull-market-in-bitcoin/

Six reasons why Chinese people will drive the next bull market in bitcoin

[Spun Gold]

http://reason.com/archives/2013/04/09/bitcoin-vs-big-government

Bitcoin vs. Big Government
How the virtual currency undermines government authority.

[Spun Gold]

http://endthelie.com/2013/04/05/the-new-renaissance-how-bitcoin-millionaires-will-change-the-world/#comment-81354

The new renaissance: how Bitcoin millionaires will change the world

[Spun Gold]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/the-man-who-gave-his-life-to-bitcoin

The fact that government might (likely will) interfere is the entire point. Bitcoin is important for one reason: because it separates money and state. That is why it is the most important project on the planet. Because money and state must be separated... doing so will rid the earth of a number of evils.

There is no other project that I'm aware of which has such potential to help so many human lives and improve the prospects for humanity, than Bitcoin.

[joboo]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176049.0

First of all, Bitcoin is going to make it to the mainstream because of the HUMAN FACTOR -



The author forgets to take intro account the human factor is a massive part of the problem as well.

You could be the brightest coder in the world, but if your software is running on outdated virus susceptible PC's it won't matter.

How do you control what people click on, and how much they understand about computers, and the internet?

Have you looked at the issues with Java lately? Then there's a million programs like toolbars etc that act as attack vectors that people install.

The human factor is the biggest vulnerability.

[joboo]

Check out this distro. Very, very impressive for it's size. 34.7Mb ISO

http://www.slitaz.org/en/get/

[monty]

Check out this distro. Very, very impressive for it's size. 34.7Mb ISO

http://www.slitaz.org/en/get/

What advantages does it have over previous distros?

[joboo]

What advantages does it have over previous distros?

Super small, excellent interface, and blazing fast on old hardware.

The features it has for that file size defies the laws of the universe.

Boots live of a thumb drive, cd etc... and can be installed to a hard drive.

[Ponce]

Some of you are running around with your bitcoins while I just sitting down with my silver.....why get tired chasing the bitcoins when you can just sit down and let the silver come to you?...... by hook or by crook the government can close down bitcoins, no matter how secured you may think that they are, but not silver.......even if they choose to close down silver the same can always find a home underground.

V

[vacuum]

If I owned a business, I'd find this pretty compelling:



https://bitpay.com/pricing


http://i.imgur.com/XAnPGcP.png

[Spun Gold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSOHwCOnG0

After listening to this I will be investing MORE in cybercurrencies.

[madfranks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSOHwCOnG0

After listening to this I will be investing MORE in cybercurrencies.

Now that bitcoins have gotten mainstream attention, a lot of big players are putting lots of money to build a solid bitcoin infrastructure. Whether you love or hate bitcoins, they're not going away.

[joboo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSOHwCOnG0

After listening to this I will be investing MORE in cybercurrencies.

At this point I would advise only what you can afford to lose. Some currencies have already been dumped, and are dead now.

There are good aspects to having funds traceable, in that you can get your money back from fraud. With Bitcoin etc... once it's lost, misplaced, stolen, password forgotten/missing, data crash, etc....it's gone forever.

The transaction is only as secure as the terminal it's made on. You think virus writers are bad now....just wait until those brilliant minds meet up with serious money opportunities. Ever see how many big/legit websites get hacked because they missed a security update? You might find a little invisible gift waiting to live on your computer on your next visit. Antivirus software won't catch it. A little experience removing root kits will give you an idea. You go to buy a big ticket item, or big transfer, and poof, it goes to someone else's key.

That being said I have a lunch meeting this Friday with a business owner to roll out a mining rig setup.

How does it go? ....the guys who supplied the miners during the gold rush made the most money...or something like that.

Learn as much as you can before diving in.

[Horn]

Now that bitcoins have gotten mainstream attention, a lot of big players are putting lots of money to build a solid bitcoin infrastructure. Whether you love or hate bitcoins, they're not going away.

Production of Bitcoins stops in 2140.

If they are, or if they are not valuable at that time, they will have no choice but to go away.

[madfranks]

Production of Bitcoins stops in 2140.

If they are, or if they are not valuable at that time, they will have no choice but to go away.

I don't understand, you seem to think that expansion is a fundamental aspect of money, and without expansion, money dies. A fixed and limited amount is actually a benefit to the money supply, because then as a unit of measurement it will not change.

[Jewboo]

Whether you love or hate bitcoins, they're not going away.



http://www.michaeljournal.org/images/rfid09.jpg

They are perfecting their digital Bitcoin Wallet as we type this.

:)

[JohnQPublic]

I think long term, some type of virtual currency/bartering system will stick. I do not know that it will be bitcoin, but bitcoin is very interesting, and certainly has gotten the attention of the banking crowd. They are succeeding in the battle this week, but long term, the idea will take off. We have to guard against the current banking scum taking control of the movement like we see in other movements (e.g., the tea party). As international relations continue to fracture, this will actually help because different countries will not cooperate as much as they did in the past. As long as the internet connectivity remains uncontrolled (a big question), there should be room to maneuver.

[madfranks]

They are perfecting their digital Bitcoin Wallet as we type this.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/images/smilies/smiley.gif

You don't seem to understand the difference between voluntary and compulsory.

[JohnQPublic]

You don't seem to understand the difference between voluntary and compulsory.

Are you responding to my comment? If so, I don't understand the comment. I am not talking about a single currency, but rather a series of virtual currency/bartering arrangements all competing. Some will survive, some will not. When there is some saturation level of them, markets will be created, and hopefully some stability will ensue. If you are responding to Jewboo, then your comment makes more sense. ;)

[sirgonzo420]

Are you responding to my comment? If so, I don't understand the comment. I am not talking about a single currency, but rather a series of virtual currency/bartering arrangements all competing. Some will survive, some will not. When there is some saturation level of them, markets will be created, and hopefully some stability will ensue. If you are responding to Jewboo, then your comment makes more sense. ;)

Madfranks was responding to book (jewboo).

[Horn]

I don't understand, you seem to think that expansion is a fundamental aspect of money, and without expansion, money dies.

Expansion of monetary base is needed for the medium of exchange to survive.

It's the basis of money, otherwise its barter.You can call it a barter of bitcoin, but then nobody would really want it then as it does nothing for them. Gold however can be used as a status symbol in the form of a nose ring if nothing more.

Maybe you could think of someway to get the bitcoin out of the computer and display as a hologram nose ring.

Bernanke needs ever expanding hologram dollar nose rings for the dollar to survive.

Bitcoin is unable to be "saved" without expansion.

[joboo]

Production of Bitcoins stops in 2140.

If they are, or if they are not valuable at that time, they will have no choice but to go away.

...and if they stopped mining gold tomorrow? I'd want some yesterday.

[vacuum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfK3_kJ4z7k#!

[madfranks]

Expansion of monetary base is needed for the medium of exchange to survive.

Why?

[Horn]

Why?

Not only does money need to be divisible for quick changes, without growth/creation it cannot be saved/stored.

It will cease to be a medium of exchange, not money.

Barter chip, barter chip with no intrinsic value = 0

[Horn]

...and if they stopped mining gold tomorrow? I'd want some yesterday.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BXTdThz1ZA

[madfranks]

Not only does money need to be divisible for quick changes, without growth/creation it cannot be saved/stored.

I think you're confusing credit with money, which is understandable since the primary money used in the economy is credit based. However, this like of thinking was debunked by G. E. Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island, and also by Mises' Theory of Money and Credit, and Rothbard's What Has Government Done to our Money? I'll try to find the specific chapters and post them later.

[joboo]

video...]

The last pallet of gold on earth is going to fetch a tidy sum, due to persistent demand. It's usefeulness will never go away due to the very properties it's made of.

From a bitcoin perspective, it also merits the same desirable qualities but in a different way. The demand for the nature of what it is will never subside. That being said bitcoin can be replaced easier than gold can.

[joboo]

Here's one for ya...

Bitcoin is for terrrrrrrrists...jpost

ht tp://www.jpost.com/Features/FrontLines/Article.aspx?id=310318

Take out the space in http.

[madfranks]

Here's one for ya...

Bitcoin is for terrrrrrrrists...jpost

ht tp://www.jpost.com/Features/FrontLines/Article.aspx?id=310318

Take out the space in http.


Every system that deals with payment can be an opening for terror finance

Which explains their goal of wanting to monitor and approve of every single transaction on earth.

[joboo]

Nice discussion here....Thread touches on many aspects, thoughts, and ideas looking forward.

Bitcoins dystopian future
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180798.0

[mick silver]

the next real money will be what you own and hold . theres no way the gov and the very rich will ever let this play out

[joboo]

12,094 restaurants across america now accepting bitcoin.










https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=184127.0

[joboo]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Z3cQhPBPl6w&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZ3cQhPBPl6w


Max keiser via rt...."bitcoin bubble buzz". E141