Camera tickets

[FreeEnergy]

Guys, since you are such experts on law and digital cameras,
which apparently evident from this thread
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?68667-You-Have-To-KNOW-That-You-Don-t-Own-The-Car/page2

I have a question:

My relative is driving a car that I own. He was driving through a state of Maryland on a highway, I-95, at 75 mph, and I just got a ticket in the mail from a camera on a highway.

Last time I've seen a similar ticket, I just junked it, my name or face isn't there.

What about now, did laws change? How do you fight that?

[Hatha Sunahara]

My car is registered to my son. One day I sped through a residential street where there was a photo enforcement van. I saw the flash go off, and I waited a few days for the ticket to come in the mail. A week later, my son shows up with a ticket he received addressed to him, but with my picture as the driver of the car. He simply made a copy of his driver's license, photo and all, and attached a note that says he wasn't driving the vehicle and wished them luck in finding the person who was driving it.

He never heard back from those people. If they can't identify YOU as the driver, then you are not responsible for it.


Hatha

[FreeEnergy]

thanks, that's what I'll do except I won't send them a copy of driver's license since they don't have a face anyway.

[Ponce]

I hate to say this but.......usually the owner of the car has to pay, no matter who the driver of the car was.

V

[Glass]

It might be worth checking the regs on this one. Also search the local news for stories on how many people don't pay their fines etc. Any plans to fix this and make people pay their fines will be in there.

Where I am it used to be that the driver had to be identified. Company cars were harder to enforce against because the company had to identify the driver. If they didn't do this there were no enforcement powers because they all went against the driver. So if someone say had vehicle they owned but for some reason it was registered in a company's name then nothing used to happen, assuming the mail went to a different address than the company's.

They changed the law so they cold take action in rem against the vehicles themselves. They usually start by stripping the vessel of its flag. That means it's open to salvage for any bounty hunter.

[FreeEnergy]

My car is registered to my son. One day I sped through a residential street where there was a photo enforcement van. I saw the flash go off, and I waited a few days for the ticket to come in the mail. A week later, my son shows up with a ticket he received addressed to him, but with my picture as the driver of the car. He simply made a copy of his driver's license, photo and all, and attached a note that says he wasn't driving the vehicle and wished them luck in finding the person who was driving it.

He never heard back from those people. If they can't identify YOU as the driver, then you are not responsible for it.

Hatha


Hatha, ok, I followed that, told them that it couldn't possibly be me.
They sent me a letter setting a "court" date.

I am just wondering, it is 2 states over and at 9 am on weekday. They know I won't be there.

Can I refuse this for cause? This IS an offer of a contract, right?

[milehi]

I got a warning in the mail for a red light camera ticket. The camera was in it's probationary period so there was no fine. The next time the car was at the dealer for service, I picked up two sets of paper plates for the two newer cars, and paid five bucks for a set from a used car dealer for the older rig.

[FreeEnergy]

Help, anyone else? with all the brainpower here, someone has got to 've been battling a similar ticket in another state.

[palani]

Why battle? Approve the ticket, sign it and return it. Direct payment be made to settle the account and get on with life. If in doubt see Glass's material concerning his revenue tax payments.

[optionT]

How to Beat a Photo-Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

Last year I received a letter in the mail from the Washington D.C DMV claiming I was speeding. As you can see it was one of those Photo-Enforced Speeding Tickets and they had multiple pictures of my CAR. I knew better to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately. I am in the habit of not taking “plea deals”, and I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets and NOT pre-paying them so I don’t have to go to court – like many folks do. I just about always record my interactions with the police, whether it’s a traffic stop or not, that way it keeps the entire situation objective, transparent and I can hold the public servant accountable if he/ she violates my rights.

So I got this letter in the mail:

Front:
Back: IMG_0003.pdf



I can’t recall why I got the next letter, but I think it was because I didn’t respond promptly enough.

Front:

Back:

As you can see these criminals issuing these tickets are hoping that the people will just get scared and pay, or not want to waste their time with it. However the government has to provide evidence that it was actually ME driving, it’s their burden of proof. Just because they got pictures of my car doesn’t mean I was driving. So, in response to the first letter, I mailed them back the following letter (copied and pasted):

To Whom it May Concern,

I received a letter claiming I committed a violation of a speeding law in the District of Columbia on 04/21/2012. As per the instructions, I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge. Although this option is said to result in this matter going to court; it is my suggestion that the charges simply be dropped. This suggestion comes out of respect for tax payers, and my request that their hard earned money not be wasted in such proceedings. As there is no evidence of my involvement with this alleged ‘crime’, as well as the fact that I am not granted my 4th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera); I see no way the government could prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter.

If it is the government’s decision to move forward in this matter, I would request copies of any evidence the prosecution may have of my involvement in the “offense”; as well as, all maintenance records for the camera(s) involved.

Sincerely,

Nathan Cox
United States Army Veteran

HUGE thanks to super activist Meg McLain. I was slammed with work and was about to miss the deadline to mail the rebuttal letter in. She was my roommate at the time, I told her about how I needed it to read and she came up with a fantastic piece. I HIGHLY recommend Meg for any of your Graphic Design or Video Animation needs – She’s stellar!
After sending that letter I received this post card:


MANY months later (much more than 6 months), just the other day I get this post card showing that the ticket is DISMISSED.
Just the other day (A year later) I get this post card:



So PLEASE, NEVER EVER opt to pay these Photo Enforced Speeding AND Red Light tickets! You do NOT have to incriminate yourself OR implicate anyone else. It’s the government’s responsibility to provide evidence that YOU were the person driving, don’t help them in their “investigation”. ALWAYS go to court and fight your tickets, if there is NO VICTIM.. there is NO CRIME!


http://virginiacopblock.org/580/how-to-beat-a-photo-enforced-speeding-ticket-or-red-light-ticket/

[Ares]

Can I refuse this for cause? This IS an offer of a contract, right?

No the refuse for cause will only work for the initial presentment. What you are getting now is a court date. So if you get a ticket in the future, you can refuse for cause, but I would suggest you get a miscellaneous case file at your local district court so that you can use that as your evidence repository. The state / county might claim they never got it, so if you already have a misc file at your local district court saying they've been notified and you put your certified mail receipt in as evidence as well as a copy of the refuse for cause. They won't have a leg to stand on. Be your own court of record. The misc case cost about 40-50 FRN's to open, if they won't allow it you can open up a libel of review but that cost about 300 FRN's. So I would suggest starting with a misc case file first.

But as was mentioned by OptionT that will work as well. Photo enforcement is a racket, don't ever pay them.