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madfranks
22nd April 2013, 09:35 AM
Here is probably the best example of the freedom that bitcoins can buy you; a fully automatic machine gun delivered to your door. Don't you think the ATF would shut this down if they could??

For the record, I do not condone using bitcoins to engage in illegal weapons dealing.

http://www.guns.com/2013/04/20/buying-guns-with-bitcoin/


Let me be clear. I’m not endorsing skirting the ATF’s rules or regulations in any way. Part of what I’m covering here is perfectly legal, and a bit boring. Some of it is not. But bitcoin is worth a look, if only to understand a growing aspect of the global internet-based arms trade phenomena.

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/bitcoin-copy.jpg

What is bitcoin?

I’ve been wrestling with the bitcoin concept for a while. The best analogy I’ve come up with is still a bit flawed. Bitcoin is somewhat like PayPal. It is a form of electronic payment. Sort of. PayPal actually transmits recognized government currencies. Bitcoin is not a currency exactly. People buy bitcoins with real currency, and then trade the bitcoins online for goods or services.

Bitcoin exists because a bunch of people on the internet believe it. Their faith in the bitcoin gives it its value (which can fluctuate, depending on this confidence).

Today, 1 bitcoin is worth $121.80.

The big appeal of bitcoin is the ability to use it anonymously. This is from bitcoin’s website:


“Bitcoin uses peer to peer technology to operate with no central authority; managing transactions and issuing Bitcoins are carried out collectively by the network. Through many of its unique properties, Bitcoin allows exciting uses that could not be covered by any previous payment systems.”

Black market

“Exciting uses that could not be covered by any previous payment systems.” Previous payment systems, like credit card payments, are easily traced. But bitcoin works more like old-fashioned cash. Users buy black market goods online. Bitcoin makes these transactions much harder to trace.

The most notorious site for buying drugs on line is The Silk Road. Given the success of their illicit drug sales, The Silk Road began selling black market guns. The Armory, The Silk Road’s firearms section, was soon spun off into an independent site. But The Armory shut down. An administrator from The Silk Road wrote in to a bitcoin forum in August of last year:


As most of you have figured out, we are closing the armory. Your first question is probably “why?”. Well, it just wasn’t getting used enough. Spinning it off originally was done somewhat abruptly and while we supported it, it was a kind of “sink or swim” experiment. The volume hasn’t even been enough to cover server costs and is actually waning at this point. I had high hopes for it, but if we are going to serve an anonymous weapons market, I think it will require more careful thought an planning.

Legal sales

Buying guns legally with bitcoin isn’t making headlines. The Arms Locker, in Pittsburgh, sells guns online and accepts bitcoin payment. Or that’s the rumor. The Bitcoin Review, a search engine seeks out retailers that accept BitCoin, brings up The Arms Locker as a ATF approved retailer that deals in BitCoin.

Their site description says “Firearms. Only in the United States. Buyer is responsible for knowing and abiding all federal, state and local laws.” But after signing up for an account on The Arms Locker, the site has no guns listed. They also don’t mention anything about bitcoin. Ho-hum.

Illegal sales

This is what’s got everyone’s attention. The idea is simple enough. The use of bitcoin is much more anonymous, as it doesn’t have the same electronic signatures as credit cards. And dealers on the other end are just as anonymous. The only hang up seems to be shipping. But there are ways around that, too.

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/glock.jpg

Most illegal sales happen through sites that aren’t accessible through typical browsers. Instead, searchers use Tor, a browser that explores an entirely different layer of the web. I found these two ads by typing “firearms” into Tor’s search engine, scrolling through the links.

Tor works by routing users actions through a series of encrypted hops that cover you electronic footprints. Anyone monitoring traffic won’t be able to track where the traffic originates (or it is much harder). It is a tool originally developed by the Navy, and it is used by all sorts of folks who don’t want their web usage monitored.

Tor helps protect the anonymity of the buyers and sellers. Guns are advertised for sale on sites with the .onion extension. Here’s where trust becomes a key element of the transaction. A buyer transfers bitcoins for payment, and through heavily encrypted communication, provides an address (or a drop location, in some cases) for shipment.

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/g36.jpg

Guns are then dismantled, packaged in inconspicuous ways, and mailed, shipped, or dropped. There are various reports circulating about a wide variety of weapons available. Some sellers will sell silencers and full auto weapons. Some will sell larger ordnance. Others will offer to sell, or set up contacts with sellers that are ready to equip small insurgent armies. This article on Gizmodo chronicles one writer’s attempts to arm a 20 man insurgent force.

Conclusion

Who’s buying guns on the on line black market? Criminals, obviously. Even buying online like this is enough to make you a criminal. But there’s more. Some of the buyers are not planning to use their guns for nefarious purposes, as such, but are more concerned with government oversight. And these aren’t just Americans. Bitcoin has been embraced by many in Europe and Asia, especially where there are much more restrictive laws.

In the end, I think it is an interesting way to buy guns. But it has to be risky. You send someone money and they send you a gun. Maybe. I don’t know that these sellers are always…what’s the word? Honest.

Will it catch on in the US? I doubt it. Unless a buyer is looking for something they can’t legally procure through normal means, the risks will outweigh the potential gains.

Twisted Titan
22nd April 2013, 12:22 PM
How about doing a nice private sale in the daytime for cash?

Hitch
22nd April 2013, 12:31 PM
We should send this article to Feinstein. While she is hell bent to take our little 22 rifles away from our law abiding citizen hands, some criminal is buying and selling full autos with bitcoin.

Ares
22nd April 2013, 12:58 PM
We should send this article to Feinstein. While she is hell bent to take our little 22 rifles away from our law abiding citizen hands, some criminal is buying and selling full autos with bitcoin.

Yep that site is called "Black Market Reloaded" I've viewed the wares on that site. There are some impressive armaments on there. Up to and including level IV body armor with ballistic plates. I saw a Glock 18 for sale which shipped from Austria. So it was probably a factory product that went ummm.. missing and wound up on BMR.

I've also seen fully functional anti-tank weapons on that site. If you have a million or so bitcoins you could arm a small army with the same weapons, ammunition, tanks, helicopters and anything else you can think of outside of nuclear weapons on there that other governments the world over have.

I'm assuming that's how the founding fathers wanted us armed, but the fed.gov feels we should not have access to those kinds of weapons and would rather restrict our access to them to the point we are barely above sporting purposes now. No one could effectively resist a no-knock "search warrant" with the weapons we have access too. I'm pretty sure that's the way they like it.

It will be interesting to see if Black Market Reloaded takes off, or fails. My guess is with the political climate being what it is. It will probably thrive especially if fed.gov decides to restrict our access to 30 round magazines and semi-automatic weapons. I could see that site growing in popularity like how the Silk Road has grown from just a half dozen dealers to literally hundreds of dealers the world over.

Uncle Salty
22nd April 2013, 01:03 PM
So, the Feds are going to be setting up stings on TOR? Sell using bitcoins and then stake out the address where the contraband is being sent.

Ares
22nd April 2013, 01:22 PM
So, the Feds are going to be setting up stings on TOR? Sell using bitcoins and then stake out the address where the contraband is being sent.

That will only work for a single sting operation or case. It works like ebay where there is user feed back about the dealer. Getting a weapon / drugs from a particular dealer then having the feds no-knock search warrant the house a day or so later will look pretty bad on the new dealer on the site.

People do not trust new dealers on those sites for obvious reasons. The dealers who have a lot of feed back are trusted.

Horn
22nd April 2013, 01:30 PM
For the record, I do not condone using bitcoins to engage in illegal weapons dealing.

Thanks for that.

What's next on the menu, little girls underwear from japan?

Uncle Salty
22nd April 2013, 01:40 PM
That will only work for a single sting operation or case. It works like ebay where there is user feed back about the dealer. Getting a weapon / drugs from a particular dealer then having the feds no-knock search warrant the house a day or so later will look pretty bad on the new dealer on the site.

People do not trust new dealers on those sites for obvious reasons. The dealers who have a lot of feed back are trusted.

So, where does one find a trusted dealer in contraband? You don't. This is TOR stuff. Not Ebay.

The Feds will create a sting using bitcoins and weapons and then have the media run with it and talk about how bitcoins supports terrorism, blah blah blah.

madfranks
22nd April 2013, 02:37 PM
Thanks for that.

What's next on the menu, little girls underwear from japan?

I'm just pointing out that this is now a reality. Internet anonymization technology isn't going away, and it's only going to get worse and worse.

Horn
22nd April 2013, 02:44 PM
I'm just pointing out that this is now a reality. Internet anonymization technology isn't going away, and it's only going to get worse and worse.

You could make more money as butcher, Machine Gun Kelly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH9CuS5ODag

Jewboo
22nd April 2013, 02:45 PM
I've also seen fully functional anti-tank weapons on that site. If you have a million or so bitcoins you could arm a small army with the same weapons, ammunition, tanks, helicopters and anything else you can think of outside of nuclear weapons on there that other governments the world over have.



http://news.antiwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/fbi_building.jpg
BLACK MARKET RELOADED WEBSITE SERVER LOCATION

Yeah...that website and Bitcoins are flying totally under the radar of the government.

:)

Hillbilly
22nd April 2013, 03:25 PM
http://news.antiwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/fbi_building.jpg
BLACK MARKET RELOADED WEBSITE SERVER LOCATION

Yeah...that website and Bitcoins are flying totally under the radar of the government.

:)


Finally some one gets it. come on the navy invented this stuff, you don't think they know how to track it or that they wont help the feds track it LOL

madfranks
22nd April 2013, 03:27 PM
Yeah...that website and Bitcoins are flying totally under the radar of the government.

:)

I know this will come as a surprise to you, but, the government is not all-powerful and all-knowing.

:D Don't cry, you'll get over it.

mick silver
22nd April 2013, 03:42 PM
keep thinking the gov not watching this , go an buy a full auto weapon an see how fast your ass is jail without the tax stamp for the gun ... we only see what they want us all to see

Horn
22nd April 2013, 03:45 PM
I know this will come as a surprise to you, but, the government is not all-powerful and all-knowing.

:D Don't cry, you'll get over it.

I say we all pitch in the Bitcoins enough for Franks to purchase one.

For the record, i'm not suggesting anyone use his IP as a forwarding address...

vacuum
26th April 2013, 01:30 PM
Buy gold, ammo, whatever you want online, anonymously with bitcoin. Any merchant, any item. (https://bitspend.net/price)

Heimdhal
26th April 2013, 03:10 PM
yeah, raise your hand if you want to be the test case.....

Ponce
26th April 2013, 03:15 PM
Sure, but will the seller take it?.......me? only cash, silver, gold or exchange for something.

V

vacuum
26th April 2013, 03:21 PM
Sure, but will the seller take it?.......me? only cash, silver, gold or exchange for something.

V

You give bitspend your payment in bitcoins and then they buy whatever items you want at whatever store you want, and they buy it for you for whatever the cost is plus a fee. They pay cash to the merchant. Up until now it was quite difficult to buy online anonymously. But now you can do it if it's worth it to you. I agree cash and gold are great, but it's not easy to get stuff online with them without going through paypal or credit card company who I'm sure has a few homeland security employees with permanent desks in their offices.



yeah, raise your hand if you want to be the test case.....
People post reviews and feedback on businesses such as these at bitcointalk. If they want to scam people they won't last for long.

Shami-Amourae
26th April 2013, 03:29 PM
You give bitspend your payment in bitcoins and then they buy whatever items you want at whatever store you want, and they buy it for you for whatever the cost is plus a fee. They pay cash to the merchant. Up until now it was quite difficult to buy online anonymously. But now you can do it if it's worth it to you. I agree cash and gold are great, but it's not easy to get stuff online with them without going through paypal or credit card company who I'm sure has a few homeland security employees with permanent desks in their offices.

People post reviews and feedback on businesses such as these at bitcointalk. If they want to scam people they won't last for long.
But but but free markets are dangerous! We need the government to regulate them! Please almighty government, take away my freedoms!

Ponce
26th April 2013, 03:44 PM
Don't worry abut it, they are working on it.

V