California Might Outright BAN 3D Printers to Prevent 3D Printable Guns From Being Pro

[Cebu_4_2]

Yee Announces Legislation to Stop 3-D Printable Guns May 07, 2013


New 3-dimensional printers allow for easy, anonymous manufacturing of firearms
SACRAMENTO – In response to recent news that a fully useable 3-D printed firearm had been manufactured, today Senator Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/San Mateo) announced his intention to introduce legislation to prohibit the use of the technology to create such untraceable and anonymously-produced guns.
“While I am as impressed as anyone with 3-D printing technology and I believe it has amazing possibilities, we must ensure that it is not used for the wrong purpose with potentially deadly consequences,” said Yee. “I plan to introduce legislation that will ensure public safety and stop the manufacturing of guns that are invisible to metal detectors and that can be easily made without a background check.”
The firearm designs for the gun known as “The Liberator” can be instantly downloaded and printed anonymously with nothing in place to screen and prevent felons and criminals. The firearm, made using a 3-dimensional printer, has already been able to successfully fire .380 caliber bullets. The new technology has been used to manufactures assault weapon parts, including high-capacity magazines and lower receivers.
“We must be proactive in seeking solutions to this new threat rather than wait for the inevitable tragedies this will make possible,” said Yee.
This session, Yee is also the author of three others bills that address gun violence.
SB 47 would prohibit the use of the bullet button and other devices that allow for easily changeable magazines on all military-style assault weapons, such as AR-15s.
SB 108 would require firearms be safely stored using a trigger lock or gun safe while no adult is on the property where the weapon is located.
SB 664 would make it easier for counties to implement assisted outpatient treatment, known as Laura's Law, for potentially violent persons.
###
Contact: Dan Lieberman,
(916) 651-4008

[JohnQPublic]

morons. (in Sacramento)

[Hitch]

said Yee. “I plan to introduce legislation that will ensure public safety and stop the manufacturing of guns that are invisible to metal detectors and that can be easily made without a background check.”

This quote could be a prediction for the future. I've yet to hear of any .gov agency searching for weapons using metal detectors, as of yet, door to door gun searches may be in store for us lucky CA residents..

[Twisted Titan]

If I was the maker of the 3D guns I would have kept my firggin pie hole shut until I perfected the application THEN I would have downloaded it to multiple sites and ran wild with it.


It man have proven to be a non issue.

But now they are cranking up the fear to fever pitch and nothing has even happened yet.

He just might sink himself before it even happens

[Uncle Salty]

If I was the maker of the 3D guns I would have kept my firggin pie hole shut until I perfected the application THEN I would have downloaded it to multiple sites and ran wild with it.


It man have proven to be a non issue.

But now they are cranking up the fear to fever pitch and nothing has even happened yet.

He just might sink himself before it even happens

I commend him for putting it out there. It is like open source. Now, anyone can take is plans and start to tweak them to make the gun better.

I say the quicker it gets out to the public, the better.

And the truth is, plastic guns are not really a threat with over 300 million guns out there.

[ximmy]

Good, so when we obtain one we won't have to bother with tax....

[MAGNES]

This ain't going to happen, not that long ago I was at a trade show,
in one year I saw the technology advance, I also saw some mini CNC milling
machines, more economical, more advanced, and the most significant
thing I saw was image mapping technology cheap, hand held scanners,
you can map someones face on the spot and mill it on the spot.

Not only do you have the printing aspects that won't be controlled,
you have the other side of the coin, the blueprints, design and imaging
made simple, scanning.

At this point it is all economics and materials .

You can't stop this.

See my posts here to understand what I am saying more fully.
That hand book of all knowledge - whats it called? (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?69370-That-hand-book-of-all-knowledge-whats-it-called)

[chad]

i don't understand the big deal about it. it's a 1 shot zip gun. i could make one in my garage with a piece of tube and a nail in about 5 minutes. it's not like this is mp5 or something.

[MAGNES]

it's a 1 shot zip gun

LOL ! That's it right there. Scares the pants off the fuckers now don't it.


How about a spear I made, out of full tang old blade on hockey stick.

3 brass pins and all, very professional finished job.

That's my raccoon killer.

ROFL !

[Cebu_4_2]

It's all about control and money. They can't tax this outright, but it might be a step that TPTB has taken to have stricter control on primers and powder. They will most likely tax it out of existence and then something else will come into play. A never ending cycle.

[Shami-Amourae]

If I was the maker of the 3D guns I would have kept my firggin pie hole shut until I perfected the application THEN I would have downloaded it to multiple sites and ran wild with it.


It man have proven to be a non issue.

But now they are cranking up the fear to fever pitch and nothing has even happened yet.

He just might sink himself before it even happens

Cody Wilson is setting himself up to be a martyr if they try to stop him. I know in general how to do this stuff, but I haven't done it myself since I know there's smart people doing it. If he goes, he will replaced with more people, who are more dedicated than ever. The government is reacting the exact way we want it too, and this will only strengthen us.

Looks like they already are doing it anyways:
http://www.infowars.com/breaking-3d-printable-gun-ordered-to-shut-down-by-government/

[iOWNme]

Cody just took down his site because of the Feds.

He was just on AJ and literally got an email on air from the Feds demanding he take down his site, and then file paperwork to put himslef under their jurisdiction so they can regulate him.

He said this is in line with the UN small arms treaty. The UN claims the 'authority' to regulate ALL small arms in the entire world, and the internet is world wide.

[gunDriller]

Contact: Dan Lieberman,
(916) 651-4008


no need to.

[sirgonzo420]

from defcad.org:


DEFCAD files are being removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls.
Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.

[Shami-Amourae]

If you guys want to download a copy of the Liberator, here's a mirror:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/n4d8yw

[iOWNme]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/breaking-3d-printable-gun-ordered-to-shut-down-by-government.html


http://static.infowars.com/2013/05/i/general/tradecompliance3.jpg





The letter, issued by the US Department of State, says:
“DTCC/END is conducting a review of technical data made publicly available by Defense Distributed through its 3D printing website, DEFCAD.org, the majority of which appear to be related to items in Category I of the USML. Defense Distributed may have released ITAR-controlled technical data without required prior authorization from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), a violation of the ITAR.”

USML stands for United States Munitions List, and ITAR stands for the International Traffic in Arms Regulations.
According to the letter, “Pursuant to § 127.1 of the ITAR it is unlawful to export any defense article or technical data for which a license or written approval is required without first obtaining the required authorization from the DTCC.
Further in the letter, it lists the 3D printable gun files available through DEFCAD.org that the DTCC says violate the ITAR.
“The Department believes Defense Distributed may not have established the proper jurisdiction of the subject technical data. To resolve this matter officially, we request that Defense Distributed submit Commodity Jurisdiction (CJ) determination requests for the following selection of data files available on DEFCAD.org, and any other technical data for which Defense Distributed is unable to determine proper jurisdiction:
1. Defense Distributed Liberator pistol
2. .22 el3ectric
3. 125mm BK-14M high-explosive anti-tank warhead
4. 5.56/.223 muzzle brake
5. Springfield XD-40 tactical slide assembly
6. Sound Moderator – slip on
7. “The Dirty Diane” ½-28 to 3/4-16 STP S3600 oil filter silencer adapter
8. 12 gauge .22 CB sub-caliber insert
9. Voltlock electronic black powder system
10. VZ-58 front sight”

The letter goes on, “Until the Department provides Defense Distributed with final CJ determinations, Defense Distributed should treat the above technical data as ITAR-controlled,” meaning the files must comply with the UN . “This means that all such data should be removed from public access immediately. Defense Distributed should also review the remainder of the data made public on its website to determine whether any additional data may be similarly controlled and proceed according to ITAR requirements.”
Defense Distributed recently garnered major attention after they were able to produce a complete firearm, titled the Liberator, solely using 3D printed parts. Data for the Liberator files have reportedly already been downloaded over 100,000 times.
It’s clear that it was this milestone that inspired the Department of State to pursue compliance orders.
The mandate is in line with the United Nations International Arms Control Treaty which has attempted to regulate firearms by exploiting import-export laws. According to Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (http://www.infowars.com/u-n-small-arms-treaty-enters-eleventh-hour/), the UN’s Small Arms Treaty “is in fact a massive, GLOBAL gun control scheme.”
The following now appears at the top of defcad.org (http://www.defcad.org/):
http://static.infowars.com/2013/05/i/general/defmessage.jpg (http://static.infowars.com/2013/05/i/general/defbig.jpg)
View the take-down notice sent to Defense Distributed:
Page 1 (http://static.infowars.com/2013/05/i/general/takedown1.jpg)
Page 2 (http://static.infowars.com/2013/05/i/general/takedown2.jpg)
Page 3 (http://static.infowars.com/2013/05/i/general/takedown3.jpg)
More on this story as it develops…

[JohnQPublic]

The 3D printer, handheld devices, imaging technology, UAVs, and other new technologies are to the physical world what the internet is to the intellectual world.

[gunDriller]

let Calif. ban 3D printers, after deluding themselves into thinking that they are somehow preventing people from making firearms.

there's a reason most guns are made out of good old-fashioned steel. personally i think aluminum is more fun to machine, but you don't see many aluminum guns - for a reason.

i would be more concerned if there were a movement to outlawing lathes & milling machines. for me, the primary utility of a 3d printer is that it allows you to do rapid prototyping & pattern-making for investment casting.

and rapid prototyping sells - people pay extra to have things made yesterday.

a lot of times in corporate R&D a manager will find themselves behind schedule. finding someone who can not impact their schedule too badly, or who can trim time off their schedule - they really appreciate that.

the pricing for 3D printers is becoming compelling. but if i got one i doubt i would ever use it to make a production part.


so the California legislators can have their circle jerk about 3D printers.

it's a shame that the citizens of Calif. & Cal-based G-S.us members actually have to pay, via their taxes, the salaries of those legislators.

as far as making a gun which can pass a metal detector, i would use materials like ceramic (strong in compression, good at temperature) and graphite (or some composite with good tensile strength) to make a metal/ conductor-free gun.

as far as plastics, one of the strongest ones i've use is "Torlon", polyetherimide, i think. they made a automobile engine block out of it as part of the proof of concept, many years ago (mid-1980's). normally, you buy it in sheet or rod form and machine it.


i think the 3D printers are cool too, but the UV curable plastics which i am hearing about (acrylics) are not super-strong engineering plastics. i would tend to wear some pretty substantial protective eye-wear when firing something like that (the 3D printed gun), because a gunpowder explosion inside a plastic part tends to crack open the plastic part. even with the metal casing (for the bullet.)

[Cebu_4_2]

2 things:

First the request was involving the UN?

2nd I dont understand this comment from the AJ site:

Anonymous says:
May 9, 2013 at 4:35 pm (http://www.infowars.com/breaking-3d-printable-gun-ordered-to-shut-down-by-government/comment-page-3/#comment-4172868)
No problem. There are many other ways to network. We’ll just go back to Packet bulletin boards (shortwave based), privately hosted DOS-based bulletin boards and private mesh networks. You can’t stop information.
Check out Pirate Box (private mesh networks you can fit in a lunchbox) or Project Byzantium. For private phone networks, totally free from cell services or commercial phone companies, check out the Mesh Potato. Create your own telco. Screw the Internet. They can have it. Too many ads anyway.
Pirate Box – wiki.daviddarts.com/PirateBox_DIY
Project Byzantium – project-byzantium.org/
Mesh Potato – villagetelco.org/

[JohnQPublic]

as far as plastics, one of the strongest ones i've use is "Torlon", polyetherimide, i think. they made a automobile engine block out of it as part of the proof of concept, many years ago (mid-1980's). normally, you buy it in sheet or rod form and machine it...

Torlon (http://www.wshampshire.com/psg_torlon.pdf) is usually glass fiber filled, and this gives it strength and stiffness. It is a polyamide-imide, and has good high temperature properties (like polyimides). Vespel (http://www.boedeker.com/vespel_p.htm), might also be interesting, is not fiber filled, but is still pretty strong. (it has graphite for lubricity). Vespel is a pure polyimide. Both are very expensive. Torlon, 1" rod, $128/ft. (McMaster Carr). Vespel 1" rod, $75/INCH ($900/ft.). You may be thinking of PEI (poly-ether imide) or the related PEEK. They would not be so great in this application. LEMO electrical connectors do use PEEK inserts, and are good to 200 Deg. C, but have limited structural requirements.

There are aerospace polyimide/graphite composites. They are much stronger than either of these, but not readily available.

[madfranks]

DEFCAD files are being removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls.
Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.

It's already all over the internet. There is no way for them to stop it now. Too late bitches!!!!

[Horn]

Someone needs to setup a store outside of a California State court house letting people come in and make their own.

Kinda like those build your own ice cream flavor shops.

[JohnQPublic]

Someone needs to setup a store outside of a California State court house letting people come in and make their own.

Kinda like those build your own ice cream flavor shops.

What color would you like your gun to be little girl?"
"how about pink?"
"Do you want the Hello Kitty pictures on it?"
"No, I'll take the Barney pictures, thank you."
"We can't give this to you, so bring your parents in 90 minutes when you pick it up. We are responsible 3D printed gun manufacturers."
"okey, dokey."

[osoab]

So what is the market for 3D printed plastics? I ain't going to buy a printer just for the novelty. I can think of much better areas to throw to frns at.

Thumbing through all of the online stuff for sale, all I see is I-phone covers and Yoda heads.

I am seriously considering buying one for a side business. Looking at least a 2 color model if not throwing down for a 3 color model. The metal ones looking intriguing, but the power consumption is the hindrance. If you are selling some sort of product even an I-phone cover, multiple colors would sell more. The sheep like flashy things.

Anyone got a 3D printer that they are looking at in purchasing?

Should I market myself for making production models for other businesses?

[JohnQPublic]

If you have lots of FRNs, get a stereo lithography (SLA) device. Then you can make molds quickly, and cast many parts from them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography

One of the advantages of stereolithography is its speed; functional parts can be manufactured as shortly as within a day. The length of time it takes to produce one particular part depends on the size and complexity of the project and can last from a few hours to more than a day. Most stereolithography machines can produce parts with a maximum size of approximately 50×50×60 cm (20"×20"×24") and some, such as the Mammoth stereolithography machine (which has a build platform of 210×70×80 cm),[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography#cite_note-6) are capable of producing single parts of more than 2 m in length. Prototypes made by stereolithography are strong enough to be machined (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machining) and can be used as master patterns for injection molding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_molding), thermoforming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoforming), blow molding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blow_molding), and various metal casting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_casting) processes. Although stereolithography can produce a wide variety of shapes, it is often expensive; the cost of photo-curable resin ranges from $80 to $210 per litre, and the cost of stereolithography machines ranges from $100,000 to more than $500,000; although recently, renewed public interest in stereolithography has inspired the design of several consumer models with drastically reduced prices, such as the Ilios HD by OS-RC.

[JohnQPublic]

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130426-ilios-hd-sla-3d-printer.html


http://youtu.be/6_X8d_5iTVo

[vacuum]

So what is the market for 3D printed plastics? I ain't going to buy a printer just for the novelty. I can think of much better areas to throw to frns at.

Thumbing through all of the online stuff for sale, all I see is I-phone covers and Yoda heads.

I am seriously considering buying one for a side business. Looking at least a 2 color model if not throwing down for a 3 color model. The metal ones looking intriguing, but the power consumption is the hindrance. If you are selling some sort of product even an I-phone cover, multiple colors would sell more. The sheep like flashy things.

Anyone got a 3D printer that they are looking at in purchasing?

Should I market myself for making production models for other businesses?

I'm not sure what useful/functional thing you could make with them. The prices have dropped dramatically, but the vast majority of things I've seem printed have little practical value. I'm sure there are useful things that can be made, I just haven't seen that many of them.

[Glass]

I think proto typing is still the main usefullness for these things so far. In 20 years time they will be something else for sure that we probably can't imagine right now. We are looking at the beginings of the replicators of the future.

I think these will evolve to be able to handle all materials from organic, metal and animal.

At this point machines will manufacturer what ever is required when it's required including other machines. From then on I see humans being born and then plugged in almost at birth so they never experience any reality. The unplugged people will be told not to worry about why there are no children anymore. They will forget that there ever was such a thing as a child. Eventually the old unplugged will die out and only plugged in will remain and their reality will be 100% machine made from cradle to solylent green vat #23765654 (er grave).

I see this as 100% feasible and probable. It's very clear that people will readily accept even the poorest of an imitation of reailty so plugging them into a computer reality will be no problem. Of course if your world has been 8bit graphics since your first awareness how are you going to know your missing out on the high def version.

[madfranks]

So what is the market for 3D printed plastics? I ain't going to buy a printer just for the novelty. I can think of much better areas to throw to frns at.

Thumbing through all of the online stuff for sale, all I see is I-phone covers and Yoda heads.

I am seriously considering buying one for a side business. Looking at least a 2 color model if not throwing down for a 3 color model. The metal ones looking intriguing, but the power consumption is the hindrance. If you are selling some sort of product even an I-phone cover, multiple colors would sell more. The sheep like flashy things.

Anyone got a 3D printer that they are looking at in purchasing?

Should I market myself for making production models for other businesses?

I'm thinking of getting one because I build architectural models out of balsa wood, chipboard, acrylic, glue, etc. Having a device that could just print my models to a degree of perfection much higher than hand-built models would be such a time saver for me, plus the quality would be better.

[JohnQPublic]

I think for the current state of affordable equipment, using the printer to create molds, then using the molds to produce limited quantities of stuff makes the most sense. Where I work, we needed to produce some elastomer products. So we had SLA molds made (ultimately transferred to urethane), which were then used to directly mold typically 20-30 parts (the urethane mold was not good for much beyond that). You could make a urethane mold, then sand or other cast the negative mold you want, then metal cast parts for instance. The utility is you can go from CAD to mold quickly and accurately.

[Ponce]

Go to the hardware store and all that you need to make a "gun" or shootgun is there.....two minutes to build a "bang" shootgun and two hours to build a regular hand gun....add 45 minutes to make it a double shot......a "frind" of mine was experimenting by making a "gun" work like a shoot gun and every time that he would lower the front part and put it up again a new shell, from a clip, would go into the firing chamber and also cock the firing pin.

But heyyyyyyyy, all that you really need is a good rod to hit a gun holder over the head and take his, or a tazer.

V

[gunDriller]

I'm thinking of getting one because I build architectural models out of balsa wood, chipboard, acrylic, glue, etc. Having a device that could just print my models to a degree of perfection much higher than hand-built models would be such a time saver for me, plus the quality would be better.

one of the things that makes the machines more useful is the color ability. i think some of them have color ability.


for the sake of completeness, i thought i would mention "Laminated object" technology.
http://www.cubictechnologies.com/Helisys.htm

i got a demo from these people about 10 years ago. the net result is the same - rapid prototyping run off an *.stl type file.


one caveat for people who are thinking about trying this - on some systems the object needs to be in 'positive' 3D space. i.e. to be in that octant of a Cartesian coord. system where X, Y, and Z are all positive.

no big deal, you just move the object to that octant before creating the *.stl file.


i wonder what technology will be the first to make a working production gun.

on old iron cannons, they used to wrap iron hoops around the end where the gunpowder exploded/ burned. an iron cable wrapped around an iron casting (castings are often more brittle.)

on a 3D gun, there is the obvious challenge of temperature and an explosion going off in a chamber.

wrapping metal around the chamber obviously helps the plastic to endure the stress of a bullet doing its thing. that could be done as an insert (before SLA-ing), or as something added after SLA-ing.


so it's sort of a race between -
plastic stereolithography alone
ceramic stereolithography alone
laminated object stereolithography alone

plastic or ceramic or laminated stereolithography, with added parts. sort of like how they use a nail to strike the primer.


one thing i would like to see, since this is a 3D tool - it's real easy to 'carve' facial images into the handle.

how about a gun handle with the face of DiFi on one side, and Schumer on the other side ?

send DiFi & Schumer such a prototype in the mail, and i GUARANTEE their blood pressure will go up ! :)