Now its my turn.

[palani]

Anyone else curious as to WHEN this turn is gunna happen and WHAT it is goin' to consist of?


http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?69340-Federal-income-taxes-the-who-s-whats-and-whys-of-being-imposed-the-income-tax

Or maybe a gamma ray shot in from outer space and demolished the only two brain cells remaining in this poster?

[gunDriller]

it took me a little while, but i eventually realized that that thread is closed.

but i did come up with an answer.

>> Please explain why "fiat" (federal reserve notes) causes the imposition of the federal income taxes.


i never said that fiat causes income taxes.

i would say that Greedy Jews cause fiat. and Greedy Jews cause income taxes. at least in the US.


so i reject the original assignment, and came up with my own explanation re Fiat & Taxes - they come from a very similar source - Greedy Dishonest Self-Serving Jews.

[7th trump]

Anyone else curious as to WHEN this turn is gunna happen and WHAT it is goin' to consist of?


http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?69340-Federal-income-taxes-the-who-s-whats-and-whys-of-being-imposed-the-income-tax

Or maybe a gamma ray shot in from outer space and demolished the only two brain cells remaining in this poster?
Ahhhhhhh..........is the resident armchair slick lawyer in suspense?

Reminds me of a joke about keeping certain types of people in suspense!

Have some patience Palani.
Heres a precurser statute to what the federal income tax is completely reliant on.
Without this statute there no imposition on the earnings of the private sector (nongovernment).
The most important thing about 26usc 3101(a) and "reporting" is this:



(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) received by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b)) —


Whats in bold starts the whole process of getting a ssn and "reporting" to the government.
Why do you think the IRS (a government collection agency) can issue ssn?
Without a ssn...........theres no defined "wages" and no requirement of "reporting".
Hope this turns on a light for you palani.....but I'm not holding my breath!

And notice the beginning "In addition to other taxes"!
All reporting and imposition in solely hinged on "employment" as defined in section 3121(b)................which is the heart beat of Social Security.
Working for someone and not participating in Social Security is not having earnings that are NOT in respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b).

And no palani.......the employer cannot make anyone participate in Social Security because thats blocking the individual from attaining the Bill of Rights.
Yes Palani, you can stop all reporting and paying federal income taxes because its in violation of the Constitution. You understand this but the problem with you is you cannot connect the dots because you dont read statutes and therefore dont understand their construction.
Like I say about you.....you are lost in the law because you take in every conspiracy theory known to man to fill in what you dont understand.

When I'm done with my documentary thread on taxes you'll know from start to finish why Americans are taxed on thier labor and know how to stop it.......if you are willing to go after some Bill of Rights.
And no Palani....the fiat reserve note itself has nothing at all to do with these statutes.
3121 "wages" (social security) can be and are measured in any medium of exchange just like the 26usc 3121(a) "wages" says so.

Here Palani go to 26usc 6051 and see what you see in that statute that suggests that having earning no 3121(a) "wages" DOESNT require a ssn on the W2.
A W2 is worthless without a ssn on it so go to 26usc 6051 and see, if you are keen enough to see it.
ALSO SEE IF YOU CAN FIND ANYTHING IN 26USC 6051 THAT SUGGESTS FIAT IS THE CAUSE FOR THE EMPLOYER TO ISSUE A W2!

[palani]

Ahhhhhhh..........is the resident armchair slick lawyer in suspense?

No. I just noticed my username prominently portrayed in that thread and I wasn't even invited to be a part of it.

You seem to believe that statutes are required to be followed to the letter. Just what makes you subject to those statutes?

(The only reason I as is morbid curiosity)

[midnight rambler]

Ain't much of a discussion if the thread is locked. lol

[7th trump]

No. I just noticed my username prominently portrayed in that thread and I wasn't even invited to be a part of it.

You seem to believe that statutes are required to be followed to the letter. Just what makes you subject to those statutes?

(The only reason I as is morbid curiosity)

No...the exact opposite Palani.
Its you, not me, like 99.9999999% of the population, that beleives statutes are to be followed to the letter.
How do I know you beleive statutes must be followed to the letter?
Easy!...........your comment about fiat reserve notes....."dont use them and dont deal in them"!
You wouldnt have said that if you knew statutes werent mandatory....especially statutes dealing with impositions and reporting. So there you are not understanding what causes taxes from being taken out of you paycheck so you admit that you arent paid in fiat currency to escape reporting and taxes!
This is really no different than working under the table where no reporting is taking place.
All you are doing is saying you working under the table is a slick cunning way.
This is why I know you are lost in the law Palani.

Heres something else about Social Security Palani.........guess what jurisdiction Social Security falls under?
The birth certificate and "private credit" theories (just more conspiracy theories of many) dont have this in their associated statutes.


(e) State, United States, and citizen
For purposes of this chapter—
(1) State
The term “State” includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.
(2) United States
The term “United States” when used in a geographical sense includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.

What is this defining Palani?
Its defining that by particiapting in Social Security, you the participant, falls squarely in federal territiory!
Since when has territories and possessions become one of the union states?
Or have they?
What this is describing is the geographical jurisdiction US Constitution grants the federal central government.


I'll say this about "to the letter"....if you participate in a government program, then yes, the associated statutes will be followed to the letter. Just ask anybody whos tried to play semantics with the system.
And what do you know.......social security has no mandatory clause or statute in the Act.
In fact theres a regulation....an adminstrative regulation at that which says social security is voluntary. Theres no language in any law books that says once you have a ssn you must use it.
In fact, that same regulation says a person might need to get a ssn for other purposes even though that person is not participating in Social Security and deosn have to.

[Ares]

7th Trump,

That's something else I've been looking into for what the government defines as it's jurisdiction. If you can detail how you stopped contributing to Social Slavery I would be most interested.

Say what you will about redeeming lawful money, but every nickle I paid into federal and state income taxes was returned to me this year without so much as a ho hum from state and IRS. However I am still liable for social slavery and medicare. So I'm looking into those now as well.

[7th trump]

Ain't much of a discussion if the thread is locked. lol
Its locked until I finish and post the mutliple posts.
It'll remain locked even after I post. I asked Madfranks to leave it locked as I want it to be a thread for documentary and educational reasons.

This thread is perfect for the purpose of discussion of taxation and fiat money.

[midnight rambler]

For purposes of this chapter—
(1) State
The term “State” includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.
(2) United States
The term “United States” when used in a geographical sense includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.

Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius. The inclusion of one is the exclusion of another. 11 Co. 58.

[7th trump]

Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius. The inclusion of one is the exclusion of another. 11 Co. 58.

Just what point are you trying to say Midnight?

Just where does this cite come from and how did it come about from that case.
There's an awful lot of cites being taken out of context.

There's also a cite floating around tax protester sites where the court decided that one particular out come doesn't effect any other court cases.
So it's better to go read where that court case your cite came from and understand why the court said that to understand its context as it relates to that particular case.

[7th trump]

7th Trump,

That's something else I've been looking into for what the government defines as it's jurisdiction. If you can detail how you stopped contributing to Social Slavery I would be most interested.

Say what you will about redeeming lawful money, but every nickle I paid into federal and state income taxes was returned to me this year without so much as a ho hum from state and IRS. However I am still liable for social slavery and medicare. So I'm looking into those now as well.

What I did was research the Social Security Act extensively after coming to understand that 3401(a) wages" (the wages listed in box 1 on the W2) encompasses 3121(a) "wages" (social security).
Did you know that social security controls the definition to 3401(a) "wages"?
You will read this in my thread when its ready to post.

Here/s a little something missed by the whole tax protesting community.
Take statute 3101(a):


(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) received by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b)) —

And this House Congressional record stating:


House Congressional Record, 27 March 1943, page 2580, “The income tax is, therefore, NOT a tax on income as such. It is an excise tax with respect to certain activities and privileges, which is measured by referring to the income which they produce. The income is NOT the subject of the tax: it is the basis for determining the amount of the tax”.

Do you see what's going on here?
Congress just admitted that the income tax is based on Social Security.

Now a bit about the income tax being an "excise" and Social Security.
You don't need to go any further than statute 26usc 3111.


(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on every employer an excise tax, with respect to having individuals in his employ, equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) paid by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b))—

You see the employer is taxed an excise tax not because the employer has employees, but because the employee are participating in Social Security and earning 3121(a) "wages".

Heres the 26usc 3101 statute for the employee just so you can connect the dots.


(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) received by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b))—

These two statutes are practically identical except 3101 doesn't say "excise", but if one says earning 3121(a) "wages" is an excise as a result of 3121(b) "employment and taxed therefore, then the other is no different.
Earning 3121(a) "wages" (participating in Social Security) is an taxable excise activity.

So to answer your question here about what I did to stop participating was completely understand the subject and defend it with law.

Hey got to go....kids are calling me

[palani]

Its you, not me, like 99.9999999% of the population, that beleives statutes are to be followed to the letter. I follow REASON. When I can find REASON in a statute then I also can see why one should follow it. When there is no REASON then the statute may be ignored.





How do I know you beleive statutes must be followed to the letter? Statutes are binding upon employees, officers and CITIZENS. I am none of the above.



your comment about fiat reserve notes....."dont use them and dont deal in them"!
Personal policy learned from the school of hard knocks. You seem to think that law (in the form of statutes) do not attach simply because you make use of these instruments of deception. Well, it is ok for you to RECEIVE them but FRAUD when you attempt to pass them on to some other unsuspecting man or woman. This is hardly moral high ground. This places you in the same field with every other con man who does the same thing.



You wouldnt have said that if you knew statutes werent mandatory. They ARE mandatory ... to those who use fiat FRNs.



especially statutes dealing with impositions and reporting There is no hierarchy of importance. If you are required to follow one then you are required to follow (and understand) all.



So there you are not understanding what causes taxes from being taken out of you paycheck so you admit that you arent paid in fiat currency to escape reporting and taxes! I have no paycheck.



This is really no different than working under the table where no reporting is taking place. Not accepting FRNs is the same as working under the table? In what UNIVERSE?



All you are doing is saying you working under the table is a slick cunning way. Try again. If you are on a fishing expedition you are a long way from catching anything.


This is why I know you are lost in the law You have stated this before. Just what the devil is this supposed to mean? My law is my law and I understand it intrinsically. Your law seems to be statute and you really stink at interpreting it.



Heres something else about Social Security Palani.........guess what jurisdiction Social Security falls under?
The birth certificate and "private credit" theories (just more conspiracy theories of many) dont have this in their associated statutes. You sign up for social security or not. Your consent is where this system attaches.




What is this defining Palani?
Its defining that by particiapting in Social Security, you the participant, falls squarely in federal territiory!
Here is news for you slick. Where you sit you are likely wrapped up in 15-20 different federal territories. Just getting rid of one will not do jack shit for getting you out of the others.


Since when has territories and possessions become one of the union states?
Or have they?
What this is describing is the geographical jurisdiction US Constitution grants the federal central government. The 50 several States are nothing more than administrative subdivisions of the federal government. So sayeth Harry S Truman in his illegal act as president on June 20th, 1948.

[7th trump]

I follow REASON. When I can find REASON in a statute then I also can see why one should follow it. When there is no REASON then the statute may be ignored.




Statutes are binding upon employees, officers and CITIZENS. I am none of the above.



Personal policy learned from the school of hard knocks. You seem to think that law (in the form of statutes) do not attach simply because you make use of these instruments of deception. Well, it is ok for you to RECEIVE them but FRAUD when you attempt to pass them on to some other unsuspecting man or woman. This is hardly moral high ground. This places you in the same field with every other con man who does the same thing.


They ARE mandatory ... to those who use fiat FRNs.


There is no hierarchy of importance. If you are required to follow one then you are required to follow (and understand) all.


I have no paycheck.


Not accepting FRNs is the same as working under the table? In what UNIVERSE?


Try again. If you are on a fishing expedition you are a long way from catching anything.

You have stated this before. Just what the devil is this supposed to mean? My law is my law and I understand it intrinsically. Your law seems to be statute and you really stink at interpreting it.


You sign up for social security or not. Your consent is where this system attaches.




Here is news for you slick. Where you sit you are likely wrapped up in 15-20 different federal territories. Just getting rid of one will not do jack shit for getting you out of the others.

The 50 several States are nothing more than administrative subdivisions of the federal government. So sayeth Harry S Truman in his illegal act as president on June 20th, 1948.

Nothing really presented by palani to merit a response.
He's too damn egotistically stupid to realize its Social Security that turns ordinary currency into a defined "wage" which the government has an interest in to determine the federal income tax.
Without Social Security the government cannot and does not impose the federal income tax.......reserve notes (aka frn's) have nothing at all to do with said defined "wages" which the income tax is based on.
All income reported on a W2 is directly related to earning 3121(a) "wages" which are in respect to 3121(b) "employment".....end of story!

[palani]

its Social Security that turns ordinary currency into a defined "wage" which the government has an interest in to determine the federal income tax.

YOU are the one swearing under penalty of perjury. At the level you are on you are probably right. Whether this is the level you need to be on is another story. You are stuck with one foot in hell and the other in heaven and you think the average is temperate.