PDA

View Full Version : Doctors In Revolt



EE_
30th May 2013, 08:02 AM
Doctors In Revolt Over Obamacare Want To Be Paid Like Mechanics, Plumbers, Hairdressers
May 30, 2013 by Sam Rolley

Citing insurance regulations and Medicare changes that make it impossible for doctors to give patients the best individual care possible, Michael Ciampi, M.D., of South Portland, Maine, decided to turn to the free market and get back to a patient-first method of medical care.

As of this spring, the Ciampi Family Practice announced that it would no longer accept private insurance or government Medicare for its services. Instead, the healthcare provider would operate as a cash-only clinic.

“I went into medicine, particularly family practice to take care of people. Insurance regulations and ever changing Medicare laws are interfering with my ability to do this,” Ciampi explains on his website. “Also, the amount of paperwork I need to complete and new rules and regulations I need to learn and follow are now dominating the time and energy which I would prefer to spend with patients. The consequences for not obeying these rules and laws is substantial and could involve enormous fines, or time served in a prison.”

The doctor contends that government meddling has driven up healthcare costs, having an inflationary effect that is threatening patient health and doctors’ ability to keep clinic doors open in the United States.

“Because of the way the insurance companies and the government have interfered with the pricing of medical services, the prices have become overly inflated. It created a system where doctors were forced to charge far more than they ever expected to receive. Part of the bill goes to offset the administrative costs of cooperating with insurance companies, and allow for mandatory write off amounts,” Ciampi says. “By cutting out the middlemen, we cut out a lot of confusion, time, and overhead. If we know that we will actually be paid what we charge (like a plumber, bricklayer, or hairdresser), we can cut our rates dramatically.”

And judging by the price list for services on the practices’ website, the doctor is offering patients a value for his services, ranging from a $50 bill for a simple office visit for a cold or sinus infection to $250 for minor surgeries that may require stitches.

Ciampi says his colleagues in the healthcare business are handling what is observed as a nearly universal uncertainty about the future of American medicine in different ways. Some owners of smaller practices are selling out to larger healthcare providers, and some have opted to wait out the coming changes before making any drastic changes to the way they do business. But he believes other small practices will be looking to doctors attempting direct pay operations.

“Charging people what we feel are reasonable rates and working for them directly fits best with our values. We do not expect to get rich. We would like to survive and thrive. The direct pay model has been working well in other parts of the country,” he says on his website. “It should work well in Maine also. Many of the other solo physicians in our area will be watching us. They may make the same change that we are now if we are successful. “

And Ciampi is right. The impending Obamacare changes seem to have sparked a sort of revolt with healthcare practices similar to his all over the United States.

Ryan Neuhofel, D.O., based in the college town of Lawrence, Kansas, also runs a direct pay clinic and similarly offers a straightforward menu of services and prices online. His patients sign up for a membership with the clinic — which costs $10 a month for people under 29, $20 for over 30, and $50 for families of up to six people — and are then able to receive a handful of free health services and a gamut of for-payment treatments.

And last month, Reason reported that similar healthcare providers are getting started throughout the Nation:

This model is growing in popularity. Leading practitioners of direct primary care include Seattle, Washington-based Qliance, which has raised venture capital funding from Jeff Bezos, Michael Dell, and comedian (and Reason Foundation Trustee) Drew Carey; MedLion, which is about to expand its business to five states; and AMG Medical Group, which operates several offices in New York City. Popular health care blogger Dr. Rob Lamberts has written at length about his decision to dump his traditional practice in favor of this model.

The growing number of healthcare providers shunning traditional insurance coincides directly with government’s increasing hand in medicine, and for good reason. As Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who has his own roots in medicine, pointed out earlier this month to the Iowa Republican Party: 122,000 new medical diagnostic codes doctors will have to use in order to inform the government about injuries are being perfected. The codes include line-items for “injuries sustained from a turtle,” “walking into a lamppost” and “injuries sustained from burning water skis.”

“Included among these codes will be 312 new codes for injuries from animals; 72 new codes for injuries just from birds; 9 new codes for ‘injuries from the macaw.’” Paul said on May 10.

“The macaw?” he went on. “I’ve asked physicians all over the country, ‘Have you ever seen an injury from a macaw?”‘

It is certainly safe to say that none of the direct pay clinics researched in the writing of this article offered a price for treatment of flaming ski injuries or parrot attacks.

http://personalliberty.com/2013/05/30/doctors-in-revolt-over-obamacare-want-to-be-paid-like-mechanics-plumbers-hairdressers/

palani
30th May 2013, 08:16 AM
Historically a doctors fees were gratuitous. That is why country doctors used to be paid in eggs, milk and chicken. The common law rule was 'a doctor may have no action in his fee'. Now they have no moral high ground. They are just fighting for their share of commerce and are not to be trusted as a result. You might just as well go to a plumber.

Spectrism
30th May 2013, 08:34 AM
Historically a doctors fees were gratuitous. That is why country doctors used to be paid in eggs, milk and chicken. The common law rule was 'a doctor may have no action in his fee'. Now they have no moral high ground. They are just fighting for their share of commerce and are not to be trusted as a result. You might just as well go to a plumber.


Sadly, this rings true.

7th trump
30th May 2013, 08:47 AM
Historically a doctors fees were gratuitous. That is why country doctors used to be paid in eggs, milk and chicken. The common law rule was 'a doctor may have no action in his fee'. Now they have no moral high ground. They are just fighting for their share of commerce and are not to be trusted as a result. You might just as well go to a plumber.

I call bullshit palani.......gratuitous huh?
Thats just your rectum conspirative mind set popping up like a nervous hemoroid.
Where do you get these shit sandwiches you expect everyone to eat of palani?
Good god palani, stop going to these goof ball website chocked full of armchair lawyers would ya.

mamboni
30th May 2013, 08:57 AM
I call bullshit palani.......gratuitous huh?
Thats just your rectum conspirative mind set popping up like a nervous hemoroid.
Where do you get these shit sandwiches you expect everyone to eat of palani?
Good god palani, stop going to these goof ball website chocked full of armchair lawyers would ya.

Palani is correct. A true physician understands that a service has been rendered to the patient if the patient desires to reward the physician. Medical fees have traditionally been considered gratuitous. Professionally speaking, I would never insist on payment if the patient was dissatisfied with the service rendered. I'd rather keep my honor thank you. Unfortunately, modern medicine has been converted to a purely commercial venture and government and insurance have thoroughly infiltrated and inflated the payment system. Half of my practice revenue, half(!) is consumed by insurance premia, billing services, payroll services and bank fees. After I pay myself, almost half of my income goes to taxes. So for every $4 I earn, the state takes $3 and I keep $1. If this isn't feudalism I don't know what is.

Santa
30th May 2013, 09:24 AM
Stop buying health insurance.


As of this spring, the Ciampi Family Practice announced that it would no longer accept private insurance or government Medicare for its services. Instead, the healthcare provider would operate as a cash-only clinic.

And I commend this clinic. What they're doing is exactly what needs to be done.

Santa
30th May 2013, 09:27 AM
And what do you wanna bet they'll be shut down by the State goon squad.

JohnQPublic
30th May 2013, 09:32 AM
I think a lot of Asian doctors coming in are the worst (not all of them). For some of them it is just business. Also, when the Hippocratic Oath was converted into the Hypocritical Oath (once abortion was accepted as a medical practice), medicine as we knew it ended. At that point murder could be called medicine.

chad
30th May 2013, 09:33 AM
my dentist only takes money. no insurance, no checks, no credit cards. cash. he has a waiting list to get in. and he costs about half of any other dentist i've ever been too. also, his expertise is awesome.

Santa
30th May 2013, 09:37 AM
my dentist only takes money. no insurance, no checks, no credit cards. cash. he has a waiting list to get in. and he costs about half of any other dentist i've ever been too. also, his expertise is awesome.
Good man.

palani
30th May 2013, 09:58 AM
I call bullshit

If that is what you know best.

http://i40.tinypic.com/317jtki.jpg

From http://books.google.com/books?id=bS42AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA332&dq=A+DOCTOR+HAS+NO+ACTION+IN+HIS+FEE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4HOnUZ37EcTY0gHY-YFo&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=A%20DOCTOR%20HAS%20NO%20ACTION%20IN%20HIS%20FEE&f=false

7th trump
30th May 2013, 10:23 AM
If that is what you know best.

http://i40.tinypic.com/317jtki.jpg

From http://books.google.com/books?id=bS42AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA332&dq=A+DOCTOR+HAS+NO+ACTION+IN+HIS+FEE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4HOnUZ37EcTY0gHY-YFo&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=A%20DOCTOR%20HAS%20NO%20ACTION%20IN%20HIS%20FEE&f=false

Hahahaha......what kind of stooges do you take us for Palani?
I'm always suspicious of your intent everytime you post your ridiculous surps from a old text.....as if they are some sort of legal foundation.
Your precious story you are passing off as american legal foundation is one from Britian (foreign). What does British's unwritten doctor etiquitte have to do with practices of payment of doctors in the United States?

palani
30th May 2013, 10:38 AM
What does British's unwritten doctor etiquitte have to do with practices of payment of doctors in the United States?


LAW, COMMON. The common law is that which derives its force and authority from the universal consent and immemorial practice of the people. It has never received the sanction of the legislature, by an express act, wbich is the criterion by which it is distinguished from the statute law. It has never been reduced to writing; by this expression, however, it is not meant that all those laws are at present merely oral, or communicated from former ages to the present solely by word of mouth, but that the evidence of our common law is contained in our books of Reports, and depends on the general practice and judicial adjudications of our courts.

2. The common law is derived from two sources, the common law of England, and the practice and decision of our own courts. In some states the English common law has been adopted by statute. There is no general rule to ascertain what part of the English common law is valid and binding. To run the line of distinction, is a subject of embarrassment to courts, and the want of it a great perplexity to the student. ...

In the constitution where Law is referred to it means Common Law as it existed at the time of the writing of the constitution. Common Law is still practiced in England and the U.K. countries and the U.S. It is in opposition to Equity and Imperial (civil) Law.

PatColo
30th May 2013, 11:40 AM
Historically a doctors fees were gratuitous. That is why country doctors used to be paid in eggs, milk and chicken.

My Gramps was an MD in Chicago in the '20s/'30s. Died long before I was born. Pops said he'd go out to make a house call, and return home with a dozen eggs or whatever. So wasn't just country docs!

I know at some point he became doc for the Golden Gloves Boxing org, and I assume he got a salary for that.

steel_ag
30th May 2013, 12:02 PM
interesting (to me anyways) that the article states that doctors' and lawyers' fees were "honorary"


If that is what you know best.

http://i40.tinypic.com/317jtki.jpg

From http://books.google.com/books?id=bS42AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA332&dq=A+DOCTOR+HAS+NO+ACTION+IN+HIS+FEE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4HOnUZ37EcTY0gHY-YFo&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=A%20DOCTOR%20HAS%20NO%20ACTION%20IN%20HIS%20FEE&f=false

palani
30th May 2013, 01:31 PM
the article states that doctors' and lawyers' fees were "honorary"

I erred in calling them gratuitous but in any case commerce was looked down upon and arguing about money was not something the honorable professions of that age did. Those sort of activities were conducted by merchants and hookers.

Cebu_4_2
30th May 2013, 01:58 PM
I like hookers!

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLWn8GWGYZq1opcpY6JR3hqufhxbpzA wVFn4tWI4BHckcSXZxOGw

Serpo
30th May 2013, 06:57 PM
I am in REVOLT of the ENTIRE medical system.

Silver Rocket Bitches!
30th May 2013, 07:35 PM
The state will not stand for this. How can they have total control over the people if these doctors are going rogue and keeping all the money and records for themselves?

osoab
30th May 2013, 07:37 PM
Hey Doc, they got automated sinks in your hospital?

(http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/with-money-at-risk-hospitals-push-staff-to-wash-hands-372585?pfrom=home-otherstories)With money at risk, hospitals push staff to wash hands (http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/with-money-at-risk-hospitals-push-staff-to-wash-hands-372585?pfrom=home-otherstories)

7th trump
30th May 2013, 07:45 PM
The state will not stand for this. How can they have total control over the people if these doctors are going rogue and keeping all the money and records for themselves?

Any and all private sector companies can tell the IRS to go pound sand in collecting "self-employment" taxes when they can say they don't want to participate in Social Security. In reality the irs wouldn't be knocking on the doors of those not choosing to participate anyway.....no reporting is generated when not participating in "self-employment" or employees being "employed".
The IRS has no jurisdiction of a persons choice of participating in SS or not. All the IRS cares about is the info it receives from the SSA through Social Security.
The only time the employer is required to file tax forms is when its employees participate in Social Security or the owner wants to participate as "self-employment"..
A company owner him/herself can stop participating Social Security and not pay any federal taxes on themselves while having employees who are willing to participate and file tax forms on them.
The employer doesn't have a say in whether its employees want to participate or not. If the employee wishes to participate then the employer is required to file the appropriate tax forms.

Obamacare and federal taxes can be nullified and reduced to almost nothing if the employers only knew their employees don't have to participate in Social Security.

mamboni
30th May 2013, 07:50 PM
Hey Doc, they got automated sinks in your hospital?

(http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/with-money-at-risk-hospitals-push-staff-to-wash-hands-372585?pfrom=home-otherstories)With money at risk, hospitals push staff to wash hands (http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/with-money-at-risk-hospitals-push-staff-to-wash-hands-372585?pfrom=home-otherstories)



Yeah, we have automated sinks. I wash my hands religiously at work - I consider an act of self-preservation. I don't to bring a hospital germ home. The way to fix the handwashing issue vis-a-vis staff compliance is to conduct random hand cultures. I think the administration is afraid of a restraint-of-trade lawsuit. For example, if a surgeon is found to carry MRSA, Infection Control could ask that his privileges be suspended for a week to complete a course of antibiotics. A week's lost income for a surgeon is beaucoup bucks. He might sue the hospital.

osoab
30th May 2013, 07:55 PM
Yeah, we have automated sinks. I wash my hands religiously at work - I consider an act of self-preservation. I don't to bring a hospital germ home. The way to fix the handwashing issue vis-a-vis staff compliance is to conduct random hand cultures. I think the administration is afraid of a restraint-of-trade lawsuit. For example, if a surgeon is found to carry MRSA, Infection Control could ask that his privileges be suspended for a week to complete a course of antibiotics. A week's lost income for a surgeon is beaucoup bucks. He might sue the hospital.


They are set with cameras to a call center in India too?

The sensor triggers a video camera, which transmits its images halfway around the world to India, where workers are checking to see if doctors and nurses are performing a critical procedure: washing their hands.

Why not spray colloidal silver on your hands? Just a thought.

mamboni
30th May 2013, 08:06 PM
They are set with cameras to a call center in India too?

Why not spray colloidal silver on your hands? Just a thought.

Fricken more surveillance? I can't wait to retire. The three most precious commodities in the future are going to be peace, quiet and PRIVACY.

Serpo
30th May 2013, 08:20 PM
A simple health and safety course has shown too me that washing hands has limited success in cleaning the hands when inspected under a black light afterwards..http://www.sciencebuddies.org/blog/graphics/2011-glowgerm2.png

Cebu_4_2
30th May 2013, 10:46 PM
Cat urine glows under a black light.

Rubberchicken
31st May 2013, 08:57 AM
Doctors' Law- If you don't feel well, make an appointment to go to the doctor, by the time you get there you'll feel better.. But don't make an appointment, and you'll stay sick.