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EE_
17th June 2013, 09:41 PM
Is this a done deal? Yikes!

BREAKING: California Passes Ammo Permit Fee
Written by: Tara Dodrill Current Events June 13, 2013 137 Comments

California once again proved it is one of the least Second Amendment friendly states in America. State legislators just passed a $50 ammo permit fee and background check law. If liberals want to derail the right to bear arms and make sure that common citizens cannot afford to defend themselves, the cost-prohibitive per-purchase ammo fee law will surely do the trick.

The great ammo shortage of 2013 is still in full swing. Store shelves still remain quite empty and demand has driven prices up in many locations around the country. Between the over-zealous ammo grabbing by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the California ammo permit law, gun owners in the West Coast state may soon be entirely out of bullets.

Making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain guns and ammunition will only increase the growing crime rate in the highly populated state. The California Senate appears to once again be demonstrating their willingness to infringe upon the Second Amendment rights of constituents. High taxes and the state’s distaste for the Constitution have prompted thousands of California residents to relocate elsewhere, Texas in particular.

Firearms expert and firearms expert and self-defense tactical trainer Patrick J.G. Troy had this to say about California’s permit fee:

“Since the Second Amendment to our Constitution only discusses the right of the people (that would be us) to keep and bear arms (have them in your possession and on your person), providing no specific protection for ammunition, the left sees this as their opportunity to make gun ownership of no value by eliminating the supply of ammunition.

“Ammo is in short supply nation wide and has been since BHO was re-elected. The Sandy Hook tragedy and subsequent gun banning/gun confiscation rhetoric that followed put the demand for ammunition over the top and that, coupled with the DHS actively seeking to deplete the national ammunition supply by purchasing 1.6 billion rounds, has left the retail shelves bare for months.

“Requiring a $50 ammo permit per purchase would make a box of defensive ammunition cost almost $100 for 20 rounds—that’s $2 per bullet. A box of 50 rounds of 22 Long Rifle ammunition (which would normally cost less than $2), would now cost $52 dollars. That’s over $1 per bullet for 22 Long Rifle ammunition. Essentially, the left is trying to make the cost of defending ourselves (a God-given right as proclaimed by our Founders and the Constitution) so high that we cannot afford to do so.

“In California, it is already illegal for a minor to purchase ammunition. Perhaps they enacted that law to keep gang members from purchasing ammunition at the local gun shop. The fact that California is rife with gangs and gang violence is testimony the failure of the left’s reactionary laws. Any thoughtful analysis would reveal that law-abiding citizens are not a problem in any regard. Criminals will always circumvent and violate our laws; that is what criminals do and why they are criminals.

“Criminals obtain their guns and ammunition from the black market. The same supply chain that brings all the illegal drugs into the USA sustains this market. Since BHO has arrogantly refused to secure our borders, the supply of guns, ammunition, and drugs continues to flow into the USA with the ever-increasing presence and magnitude of violent gangs whose members also cross freely into the USA via the same routes. Criminals do not need to purchase guns or ammunition from the supply chain that law-abiding citizens use. They procure their guns and ammo illegally from their own black-market supply chain that is inaccessible to law abiding citizens.

“There are numerous court cases in the US where law enforcement agencies have been sued for failing to protect victims of violent crimes. Every lawsuit was dismissed because the courts ruled that there is no relationship between law enforcement personnel and citizens, and therefore, law enforcement personnel have no duty to protect the citizenry. Rather, they only have a duty to uphold the law. The only time law enforcement personnel have a duty to protect an individual citizen is when that citizen is in the custody of those law enforcement personnel. So, if you are handcuffed and in the back of the police car, if you are in jail, if you are being detained by the police, or your liberty has been restricted by the police, these are the only times that law enforcement personnel have even a marginal duty to protect you, the citizen. As long as you are at liberty, you have no relationship with law enforcement and are on your own to protect yourself. That is the current state of the law in this regard.”

How to hide your guns, and other off grid caches…

The California $50 ammo permit fee is only one aspect of the new gun control law. The bill also outlawed “large-capacity” magazines (over 10 rounds) and detachable magazines. The legislation also allows for the tracking of anyone who buys ammunition and puts into place a reporting system when more than 3,000 rounds are tallied at the cash register. The category of offenders prohibited from owning guns for a decade was also expanded by the California State lawmakers.

Every time an individual buys a box of ammo, they must submit personal information for review and pay a $50 permit fee. After the private details and money has been paid, the state will then, and only then, decide if the customer will be allowed to put the ammunition into a sack and walk out of the store. The same day purchase of ammunition in California may be a thing of the past, depending upon how long it takes for the background results to return.

Buying and manufacturing semi-automatic rifles which can accommodate detachable magazines will now be illegal as well. Any California citizen who currently owns such a weapon is mandated to immediately register the rifle with state officials. If California lawmakers would crack down on criminals and the overwhelming number of gang members in the state with as much venom as they are law-abiding citizens, jails in the Golden State would not have a single empty bed.

All the Second-Amendment-rights-infringing law will do is cost California’s gun stores and ammo retailers business—creating employee layoffs in the process. Gun owning residents will simply opt to buy their ammunition online and venture into a bordering state to fulfill their needs. The semi-automatic rifles portion of the law will do nothing to deter crime. As the viral video created by a county sheriff demonstrating how quickly any size magazine can be emptied and reloaded (by any level of shooter), a villain with several five or ten capacity magazines can still kill a multitude of people in a short amount of time.

Surviving Doomsday author Richard Duarte, who is also a Miami attorney and firearms expert, had this to say about the continued attack on the right to bear arms:

“In Florida we currently have a pending bill that would make it illegal for individuals to purchase ammunition unless they had completed a state-approved anger management class. Violations could result in 60 day to one year in jail… have we all lost our minds? And what kind of idiots are we electing to public office? How can any rational person look at this pending bill and think that it makes any sense at all, or that it would have any sort of positive impact? If it’s not already obvious, it will soon become painfully obvious that the average citizen has to start paying attention and taking a more active role in holding elected officials accountable for their actions. If we fail to do this, there will be a time, in the very near future, when we will look around and not recognize the country we live in.”

Duarte’s warnings and observations are extremely accurate. We already have to squint really hard to garner a glimpse of the America we once knew. California Attorney General Kamala Harris certified legislation which mandates that all new semi-automatic handguns utilize stamping technology. The stamps would provide identifying information on bullet casings.

Gun makers will not likely be willing to put infuse the stamping on all handguns simply to appease California or retrofit their entire line of existing firearms to comply with the new gun control law. The bill might not have been labeled as a handgun ban, but that is exactly what it will effectively do within the state. Whether or not a California citizen can order such a gun online or buy one from a border state without the bullet casings stamp without breaking the law remains unclear.

Signs like this one have been popping up in the yards of California gun owners:

“My neighbor doesn’t like guns, so I promise not to use mine to defend him.”

At this point, a poignant slogan born out of frustration is about the only recourse non-liberal Golden State residents have in the fight for their gun rights – unless they can afford to move. The desire to not have Ted Nugent living next door has been expressed by anti-Second Amendment activists in the state. The short-sightedness of such an argument may become tragically clear if the “Gun Free Zone” folks are faced with an intruder at their door. I would much rather have a Ted Nugent type living next door instead of a helpless victim who could not help me protect me family during a civil unrest scenario. A smile and a cold glass of lemonade will not dissuade a drug addict or gang member during a search for an easy target – but my Ruger handgun would make a lasting impression.

How do you feel about the California $50 ammo permit fee and other new gun control laws?


http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/06/13/breaking-california-passes-ammo-permit-fee/

General of Darkness
17th June 2013, 10:06 PM
I have no comment.

EE_
17th June 2013, 10:34 PM
I have no comment.

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milehi
18th June 2013, 12:23 AM
I came across (no I wasn't masturbating) a box of .45 last Friday. I don't own anything in .45 but at .85 cents a round after tax for something that's nearly impossible to find around here, I had to grab it for the next time I visit Bartertown.

Twisted Titan
18th June 2013, 04:48 AM
When injustice becomes law.
Rebellion becomes duty.

palani
18th June 2013, 05:38 AM
So to get around the 'law' all you have to do is take a weekend jaunt to Vegas and stock up?

This is how black markets are created.

Shami-Amourae
18th June 2013, 06:43 AM
Looks like I left in time.

Shami-Amourae
18th June 2013, 07:47 AM
When injustice becomes law.
Rebellion becomes duty.

Or you could just leave.

gunDriller
18th June 2013, 07:55 AM
that's a lot like passing a Breathing Fee.

Twisted Titan
18th June 2013, 09:07 AM
Or you could just leave.

Thats a option thats alot easier to consider when its just yourself.

It gets very complicated when you are in a comitted relationship.

And it becomes extremely difficult when you have a family.

Shami-Amourae
18th June 2013, 09:14 AM
I left my entire family behind. I'm alone now.

Someone had to do it. I was the first. Others may follow in my footsteps now.

EE_
18th June 2013, 09:36 AM
So to get around the 'law' all you have to do is take a weekend jaunt to Vegas and stock up?

This is how black markets are created.

It's possible Nevada will soon not be allowed to sell ammo to Californians. There may even be a federal law charging anyone that gets caught with a felony. Would you be willing to risk your right to own firearms to smuggle ammo into CA?
Maybe Primm will set up ammo sales like some states do with fireworks. You will sign a waiver saying you will not take the ammo out of the state?

Online sales of ammo is over in CA.
Maybe it's better to just pay the extortion fee and buy the max at any one time.
Either way, Californians will be shooting a lot less...at least off your own property.

palani
18th June 2013, 09:40 AM
Would you be willing to risk your right to own firearms to smuggle ammo into CA?

My grandmother raised black market chickens for city people in her basement during WWI (phase deuce). The chicken cops never nailed her on the crime.

Uncle Salty
18th June 2013, 11:48 AM
This will fail in court.

Also, I don't think the legislation calls for a $50 fee for every purchase. I think it would be like a five year permit.

Hitch
18th June 2013, 11:58 AM
Also, I don't think the legislation calls for a $50 fee for every purchase. I think it would be like a five year permit.

I think you are right Uncle Salty. They will "settle" for a five year permit. The art of negotiations, shoot for something ridiculous that's unachievable then pass something they will settle on.

Either way it sucks. Ammo is extremely scarce as it is in CA, now it will be completely gone instantly.

BrewTech
18th June 2013, 12:13 PM
I left my entire family behind. I'm alone now.

Someone had to do it. I was the first. Others may follow in my footsteps now.

You left your wife and kid(s)?

EE_
18th June 2013, 12:45 PM
I think you are right Uncle Salty. They will "settle" for a five year permit. The art of negotiations, shoot for something ridiculous that's unachievable then pass something they will settle on.

Either way it sucks. Ammo is extremely scarce as it is in CA, now it will be completely gone instantly.

Just as long as you guys follow the law and register your weapons, you should be all right.


Buying and manufacturing semi-automatic rifles which can accommodate detachable magazines will now be illegal as well. Any California citizen who currently owns such a weapon is mandated to immediately register the rifle with state officials.

I wouldn't register shit! Remember, if there is ever a problem and you get stopped with a dangerous illegal weapon...don't say shit, except for "I wish to speak to my lawyer before I answer any questions"

EE_
18th June 2013, 12:48 PM
You left your wife and kid(s)?

What kind of guy would just leave his wife and kids like that? What a dick!

BrewTech
18th June 2013, 12:52 PM
What kind of guy would just leave his wife and kids like that? What a dick!

I'm not saying he did, just trying to clarify what he meant by "leaving his family".

I was under the impression that Shami was not married and had no kids. I know that TT has a child. That's a big difference when one refers to "leaving their family".

Hitch
18th June 2013, 12:56 PM
I was under the impression that Shami was not married and had no kids. .

Shami's a young single guy, young single guy's move around a bit. I did, and still do. :)

I'm sure he meant his parents, brothers, etc.

EE, all my guns are registered I believe. I'm more concerned about ammo. I'd really hate to see this thing pass.

EE_
18th June 2013, 12:56 PM
I'm not saying he did, just trying to clarify what he meant by "leaving his family".

I was under the impression that Shami was not married and had no kids. I know that TT has a child. That's a big difference when one refers to "leaving their family".

Quit getting all serious and shit on me brother...I kid I kid!
He is single with no kids

EE_
18th June 2013, 12:59 PM
EE, all my guns are registered I believe.

I don't think so
A NICS background check and federal form is not being registered.

Hitch
18th June 2013, 01:02 PM
I don't think so
A NICS background check and federal form is not being registered.

Are you sure? They've got all my info, the gun make/model/serial number. How is that not registered?

midnight rambler
18th June 2013, 01:12 PM
Are you sure? They've got all my info, the gun make/model/serial number. How is that not registered?

For 'registration' there is a formal process, like registering an automobile, registering a boat, or registering to vote. Just remember, ANYTIME you 'register' something with the state it's no longer yours (as in title, ownership), it's in a cesti que trust and you only have 'beneficial use' or a 'beneficial interest'.

EE_
18th June 2013, 01:18 PM
For 'registration' there is a formal process, like registering an automobile, registering a boat, or registering to vote. Just remember, ANYTIME you 'register' something with the state it's no longer yours (as in title, ownership), it's in a cesti que trust and you only have 'beneficial use' or a 'beneficial interest'.

Yes, midnight rambler is correct, it will be a formal process with the "state". Most likely you will be fingerprinted and given a license to own your firearm.

madfranks
18th June 2013, 01:33 PM
This will fail in court.

Also, I don't think the legislation calls for a $50 fee for every purchase. I think it would be like a five year permit.

According to the OP:


Every time an individual buys a box of ammo, they must submit personal information for review and pay a $50 permit fee.

Hitch
18th June 2013, 01:38 PM
Yes, midnight rambler is correct, it will be a formal process with the "state". Most likely you will be fingerprinted and given a license to own your firearm.

I've already been fingerprinted, part of the background check. I guess my confusion comes from what do they gain, by officially making us register them.

They've got all our info anyways. We are in the system. Registering, such as with autos, etc, would just be a revenue gimmick to generate funds.

EE_
18th June 2013, 01:49 PM
I've already been fingerprinted, part of the background check. I guess my confusion comes from what do they gain, by officially making us register them.

They've got all our info anyways. We are in the system. Registering, such as with autos, etc, would just be a revenue gimmick to generate funds.

You are in a Federal data base now, you will have to register to be in a state data base.
Yeah, they won't mind the extra revenue either.
Like drugs, just say NO!

EE_
18th June 2013, 01:52 PM
According to the OP:

Every time an individual buys a box of ammo, they must submit personal information for review and pay a $50 permit fee.
You may however purchase a larger amount of ammo for the $50 extortion fee. The 50 smackers might be the same for 1, or 10 boxes of ammo...not to excede 3,000 rds.


The legislation also allows for the tracking of anyone who buys ammunition and puts into place a reporting system when more than 3,000 rounds are tallied at the cash register.

Mouse
18th June 2013, 02:28 PM
Every time you purchase a weapon in California, you have to file a DROS form and do your ten days. The DROS form is sent to California DMV, DOJ and etc and has nothing to do with the NICS and 4472 check. The DROS form lists the details and serial number of the specific weapon. Therefore, all weapons purchased in CA are already registered. Weapons brought in from outside are not, but I believe the law already required them to be registered. Additional registration for "auto-loading rifles with certain features" is just a revenue generator.