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Twisted Titan
1st July 2013, 02:40 PM
In March of 2012 President Obama signed an executive order which, among other things, gives the federal government authority over every resource and infrastructure element in the United States (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/executive-doomsday-order-obama-authorizes-gov-to-seize-farms-food-processing-plants-energy-resources-transportation-skilled-laborers-during-national-emergency_03182012).




The new order provides specific definitions for each of these essential infrastructure elements, indicating that all resources, not just those owned by large farms and businesses, are to be directly controlled by the government.




The signing of the National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order grants the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Labor, the Department of Defense and other agencies complete control of all US resources, including the ability to seize, confiscate or re-delegate resources, materials, services, and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense as delegated by the following agencies:



That the government would seize energy depots, large farms, water reservoirs, and infrastructure-critical factories in the midst of a widespread disaster is a given, but how far can they really go?




According to a detailed analysis by Code Green Prep, The Present Legal Support for Seizing our Food and other Supplies (http://codegreenprep.com/2013/06/the-present-legal-support-for-seizing-our-food-and-other-supplies/) suggests they can go all the way, including what you have stocked in your home pantry.




…the President can order the military to do pretty much anything to anyone, at any time, for any reason.
Specifically, he can order the military to ‘restore public order’ – and you might wonder what ‘public order’ is. Truly, that’s a broad term capable of many meanings, and so too is the verb before the noun – ‘restore’. What types of things can he order the military to do to restore the public order? There’s no limit specified, so presumably whatever he (and he alone with no need to get approval from Congress) feels to be prudent, necessary, and appropriate.




The legal framework was partially outlined in the aforementioned executive order, but David Spero (http://codegreenprep.com/) notes that it’s not the only law on the books:

Hoarding of Just About Anything Can Be Banned





These definitions are written in to the 1950 War and National Defense Defense (sic) Production Act, and so let’s see what the act itself has to say for itself.



Go directly to section 2072 (http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2010/title50/app/defensepr/sec2072/). That’s the key part from our perspective.

§2072. Hoarding of designated scarce materials



In order to prevent hoarding, no person shall accumulate (1) in excess of the reasonable demands of business, personal, or home consumption, or (2) for the purpose of resale at prices in excess of prevailing market prices, materials which have been designated by the President as scarce materials or materials the supply of which would be threatened by such accumulation. The President shall order published in the Federal Register, and in such other manner as he may deem appropriate, every designation of materials the accumulation of which is unlawful and any withdrawal of such designation.




In making such designations the President may prescribe such conditions with respect to the accumulation of materials in excess of the reasonable demands of business, personal, or home consumption as he deems necessary to carry out the objectives of this Act [sections 2061 to 2170, 2171, and 2172 of this Appendix]. This section shall not be construed to limit the authority contained in sections 101 and 704 of this Act [sections 2071 and 2154 of this Appendix].



So the President can simply say that anything more than (for example) a week’s supply of food (and all the other things listed) is an amount ‘in excess of the reasonable demands of personal consumption’ and then order the Army to impound everything you have in excess of that amount.





We don’t want to get into the deeper darker conspiracy theories of what FEMA and HSD might be and do in the future, but we would like to be reassured that these theories truly are as impossible as we hope them to be.



We have no answer to these questions. But we wish we did, because we can readily see a future scenario where the government (which, of course, always ‘knows best’) decides the best thing to do is to centralize all food and other survival resources – all the stuff listed above in the Executive Order – and then distribute it ‘fairly’ as it sees fit.





And, in case you didn’t read the first part of this two-part article, distributing ‘fairly’ is a code phrase that means ‘we’ll take as much as we can from people who have the thing, and then give it to people who don’t have the thing’. The people without the thing doubtless feel that is fair, but how do you feel, as someone more likely to be losing your preps, while seeing people who laughed at you for being a prepper now having your preps passed over to them?
[emphasis add]




Full Reports via Code Gree Prep (http://codegreenprep.com/)
Part 1: Preppers Beware : Our “Hoarding” Can Be Deemed Illegal (http://codegreenprep.com/2013/06/preppers-beware-our-hoarding-can-be-deemed-illegal/)
Part 2: The Present Legal Support for Seizing our Food and other Supplies


(http://codegreenprep.com/2013/06/the-present-legal-support-for-seizing-our-food-and-other-supplies/)

It should be clear from the laws that are already in effect that the government has given itself a legal pretext for confiscating anything they so choose in the midst of an emergency.



During Hurricane Katrina we saw officials go door-to-door to disarm Americans against their will (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4) and in violation of the Second Amendment. They had no authority to do so in a legal sense. They did it anyway.



Should an emergency befall the United States, the military, national guard, and local police operating under orders from the Department of Homeland Security will have carte blanche to do as they please.



For evidence of this look no further than Boston, Massachusetts just a few short months ago when the government declared nothing short of a de facto state of martial law (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/battlefield-usa-a-de-facto-state-of-martial-law-has-been-declared_04192013). Militarized police forcibly entered the homes (http://www.infowars.com/this-is-what-martial-law-looks-like/) of hundreds of Americans without permission.



In a widespread emergency where supply lines have been threatened and millions of Americans are without essential resources because they failed to prepare (http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/how-horrific-will-it-be-for-the-non-prepper_05122012), the government will swoop in and attempt to take complete control.




They will enter our homes and search them without a warrant. They will confiscate contraband. And they will take any ‘excessive resources’ that you may have accumulated. This includes food, toiletries, precious metals and anything else emergency planners and officials deem to be a scarce material

.

Expect it. Prepare for it.

http://shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ram-door1-300x217.jpg

FreeEnergy
1st July 2013, 03:23 PM
Standard procedures to be ready for a war on your territory.


I know you may be from "the land of the free" and such... but anybody who lived long enough in a country that participated in war on its own territory knows that if you are going to be "brave hoarder", you are going to be a dead hoarder.

Because every army on Earth will pillage local population during war.

So you might as well pin a dead hero status onto yourself.

There's only two ways you can save your hoarding from an army:
1) hide it real well in your house/land (in which case chances that you'd be given away by your friendly neighbor are high), and
2) hide it way away from army's path.

Your survival chances in situation numero uno are 0 , and especially if you are being a hero and waving a gun. Standing army doesn't care, they'll shoot you dead and move on.

FreeEnergy
1st July 2013, 03:32 PM
IMHO the most dangerous thing you should worry about is not your neighboring african-american (or whatever you don't like) gang, but the army.

My memories of the war stories are a bit rusty, but basically this is regarding any army, enemy or local:

1) They will specifically target any food, water and other suppliers. Which means they will confiscate whatever army needs from local businesses if they have to. Local army may leave IOU notices, but from dealing with banks you already know how this typically works out.

2) If they know you are a local hoarder and have enough supply for them to bother, they will target you and will come and confiscate whatever they deem necessary.

Again, as I mentioned above, you waving a gun will just make you dead.

Twisted Titan
1st July 2013, 03:38 PM
OPSEC is paramount then.

vacuum
1st July 2013, 03:39 PM
What's the best way to prepare then?

FreeEnergy
1st July 2013, 03:44 PM
What's the best way to prepare then?

I don't know. Probably stay below radar and not have stack amounts that are seriously large that are known to a lots of folks.

Another words, if a marching military or police unit can stop by 5-10 houses and ask a question: "who's a hoarder"? they should not be able to identify you, or should be trusted enough (relatives?) not to give away.

--

Sounds like they are preparing for a potential civil war.

In civil war, there will be local "partisans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partisan_%28military%29)" , local military combatants fighting an army. Unlikely that they will have any success with all the drones and GPS everywhere, but who knows. They will try to recruit local patriots. Most likely a lot of them are going to be ill-equipped to fight regular army , and you may even see it i.e. you'll know that by joining them you'll be as good as dead because army will be rooting these out. If you refuse to join, however, these partisans may also confiscate your stash.

midnight rambler
1st July 2013, 03:47 PM
What's the best way to prepare then?

The first and foremost rule of camouflage: what you see is what you get.

The first and foremost rule of surviving: be in harmony with your environment.

The first and foremost rule of the beast system: the beast's interests are paramount to all others.

Ares
1st July 2013, 03:51 PM
I don't know. Probably stay below radar and not have stack amounts that are seriously large that are known to a lots of folks.

Another words, if a marching military or police unit can stop by 5-10 houses and ask a question: "who's a hoarder"? they should not be able to identify you, or should be trusted enough (relatives?) not to give away.

--

Sounds like they are preparing for a potential civil war.

In civil war, there will be local "partisans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partisan_%28military%29)" , local military combatants fighting an army. Unlikely that they will have any success with all the drones and GPS everywhere, but who knows. They will try to recruit local patriots. Most likely a lot of them are going to be ill-equipped to fight regular army , and you may even see it i.e. you'll know that by joining them you'll be as good as dead because army will be rooting these out. If you refuse to join, however, these partisans may also confiscate your stash.

Depends on the partisans / local militia. Gorilla tactics seem to be very effective against a well armed, well fed military presence. If TSHTF right now, most of us on this board will be a target. Dead, taken to a "re-education camp" or do the home is my fortress mentality. The reality is that you are a target by your very nature of being alert to the situation. Know it, live it, get on good terms with your creator and take a few with you is my philosophy. I'll provide for my family as best I can. But I'll be damned if my provisions will be taken. I'll take protective measures to make sure those that do take pay. :)

FreeEnergy
1st July 2013, 03:58 PM
A while back I was interested in russian revolution of 1917 and the later civil war. A pretty reliable source of information is basically telling about a local farmer who had a horse farm. The way this worked is this: red army would come in and confiscate some horses. Then white army would come in and confiscate more. Then local bandits would confiscate some. The only way farmer was able to save some was to get a "neighborhood watch" who would notify him when an army is approaching, and farmer would let horses run into the woods and go get them when army moved on.

During war, there's no "friendly army".

Ares
1st July 2013, 04:04 PM
A while back I was interested in russian revolution of 1917 and the later civil war. A pretty reliable source of information is basically telling about a local farmer who had a horse farm. The way this worked is this: red army would come in and confiscate some horses. Then white army would come in and confiscate more. Then local bandits would confiscate some. The only way farmer was able to save some was to get a "neighborhood watch" who would notify him when an army is approaching, and farmer would let horses run into the woods and go get them when army moved on.

During war, there's no "friendly army".

Even during America's own revolution, and Civil war food, weapons, horses, etc. were "provisioned" for the "war effort". Just depended on which sides territory you happened to call home on the given week / month that the land was claimed.

War is a dirty business, and there are no real winners. Especially when both sides are financed by the same banker families. Which has been western history for the past 500 or so years.

Eventually we're all faced with this decision. I'd rather have it fall on me than my children.

Serpo
1st July 2013, 04:13 PM
Ban the federal government for hoarding copious amounts of stupidity.

Ares
1st July 2013, 04:17 PM
Ban the federal government for hoarding copious amounts of stupidity.

Yeah what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. They hoard land, water, weapons, ammunition, bunkers, and everything they can for their OWN preservation. But when it comes to you and me? Well fuck you, it's ours now.

Santa
1st July 2013, 04:57 PM
Well, this executive order shows us exactly where we stand in relation to a Constitutional Republic form of government, now doesn't it?

Ponce
1st July 2013, 05:01 PM
You got it Ares, those who will confiscate in the name of the law will do it only for themselves and their families.....I for one do have a lot but have it at three different places and what they find at home will be almost nothing.

V

gunDriller
1st July 2013, 05:33 PM
What's the best way to prepare then?

they're not wearing body armor on their face.

singular_me
1st July 2013, 05:41 PM
somebody asked: what is the best way to prepare then?


none -- accepting to live in the **NOW** will be either benevolent or forced upon us... you choose??

... this is the ** inescapable duality** that the Universe has in the store for us... sorry for being a pain in the but folks.



edit: the elites only exist because they have understood how to "capitalize" our fears while the real battle rages within.

Serpo
1st July 2013, 06:15 PM
http://www.backyardliberty.com/vsl/

midnight rambler
1st July 2013, 06:32 PM
edit: the elites only exist because they have understood how to "capitalize" our fears while the real battle rages within.

The negative emotions (such as fear, hatred, anger, envy, resentment, etc.) are actively cultivated by the so-called money powers 'cause that's where they get their power from, such as it is.

Silver Rocket Bitches!
1st July 2013, 06:55 PM
Despotism through executive order.

old steel
1st July 2013, 07:00 PM
They will be taking my lead before they even get to the door.

Count on it.

steyr_m
1st July 2013, 07:00 PM
IMHO the most dangerous thing you should worry about is not your neighboring african-american (or whatever you don't like) gang, but the army.

I'd actually be more afraid of [insert minority street-gang name here] than the Army. There are many people who are awake there too. They have a stake at being awake since they are the one's sent to war and to be sacrificed.

gunDriller
2nd July 2013, 06:58 AM
I'd actually be more afraid of [insert minority street-gang name here] than the Army. There are many people who are awake there too. They have a stake at being awake since they are the one's sent to war and to be sacrificed.

that's very neighborhood-dependent.

in some neighborhoods - where there are no minorities - the local cops are the local gang.

Twisted Titan
2nd July 2013, 07:13 AM
Its a friggen toss up.

All of it.

Do the best you can to prepare and pray to which every Deity you are comfortable with you dont draw the short straw.


Beyond that its all conjecture and theroy.

singular_me
2nd July 2013, 05:11 PM
The negative emotions (such as fear, hatred, anger, envy, resentment, etc.) are actively cultivated by the so-called money powers 'cause that's where they get their power from, such as it is.

yes it is the only way to get rid of the boom and bust cycles -- gold/silver or fiat it doesnt matter. well fiat makes it a lot worse. Hence there is no point in participating in any boom therefore, they are all meant to consolidate power.

edit: oops, there was no fiat money leading to the first world crash in the 14th century that decimated more or less 50% of european populations.