Shami-Amourae
7th September 2013, 08:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIlcfvQvvrE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXpsX3sZow0
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/09/02/sheryl-sandberg-lean-non-profit-blogher-rachel-thomas
(Link to below quoted article)
Editor's note: HLN caught up with Sheryl Sandberg and Rachel Thomas at the annual BlogHer (http://www.blogher.com/blogher-13) (http://www.blogher.com/blogher-13)conference in Chicago, where Sandberg was a keynote speaker. Sandberg is the chief operating officer of Facebook, author of “Lean In (http://leanin.org/book/),” and founder of LeanIn.org (http://leanin.org/). She is on Twitter (https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg). Thomas (http://leanin.org/stories/rachel-thomas/) is founder and president of LeanIn.org and is on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/rachelsthomas).
HLN: When did you first feel that gender bias was something that needed to be talked about?
Sheryl Sandberg: I went to Google in 2001, and men were in my office asking, “When can I get the next job?” “Where’s my promotion?” And the women -- not all of them, certainly -- but many more would say, “I’m really learning a lot in my current job.” I watched as women are discriminated against, held back by institutional barriers, held back by terrible public policy, but we are also holding ourselves back because the world tells us we can’t -- and, really, we can. And that was when I gave that TED talk. The TED talk went viral and I started getting email after email, letter after letter, mostly from women -- some men -- talking about how it changed their lives, and that’s how I got here. I didn’t mean to do it. I started out admiring women like Lisa Belkin and thinking these are the women who are part of the voice of this. I’m a business person -- I didn’t consider myself that voice. And then I think, “This is just going to take all of us.”
HLN: How can we help women get out of their own way and help themselves?
Rachel Thomas: A lot of this comes down to peer support. It’s much harder for women to get mentors. Lean In circles (http://leanin.org/circles/) is a way that you can start getting support immediately. The value of peer support is documented -- it’s very powerful. We do better when we’re cheered, when we’re coached, when we have confidantes, and that’s what our circles offer.
HLN: How can we encourage a better sense of support among women instead of a sense of competition?
Sandberg: We expect greater niceness from women. Studies show that if a man is asked for a favor in the workplace and he does it, he’s the greatest guy. And if he says no, it’s totally understandable -- he’s busy. If a woman is asked for a favor in the office and she doesn’t do it, she faces penalties, including lower promotions and salary. And if she does it, no one feels grateful. So we have to both change historical patterns, which I do think have changed a lot, and our own biases where we just expect more. I wrote a story in my book about a woman who was really mean to me and how hurt I was. Then I thought about the fact that a lot of men have been mean, and I was annoyed, but I wasn’t hurt. I expected more from her, and I think equal expectations are a big part of this.
HLN: You say leadership inequality starts at an early age and often in the home. What’s the message parents can pass on to their young daughters at home?
Thomas: After I joined Lean In, my kids wanted to know what it was and why I was doing it. I’ll never forget this as long as I live: I looked at [my daughter] and said, “What if I told you that as Daddy gets more successful, people will like him, and as Mommy gets more successful, less people like me?” She looked straight at me and said, “Then I would be less successful so more people like me.” And what I was struck by is that’s so rational. If given the choice between likability and success, I don’t blame a little girl for saying “I’d rather be liked.” That is the type of dialogue that we need to change in the house, because little girls are growing up, thinking very much about the choice between success and likability, and we’re not going to change that until we talk to them differently. My daughter was 5 at the time so obviously, it’s not a super-sophisticated conversation. The words “gender bias” aren’t mentioned. But I did say, “It’s OK to be successful and it’s OK to be good at what you do. In fact, it’s really important, because the better you are at what you do, the more choices you’re going to have as you get older.” My son has called my daughter bossy and I did correct him. That’s no longer a term that’s used in the house. As Sheryl has famously said, “Girls aren’t bossy anymore -- they have executive leadership skills.”
Sandberg: One thing I really feel strongly about is we need to look the leadership ambition gap squarely in the face. I have said there’s an ambition gap. It is not something that everyone likes to hear. It’s not something I like to hear, so I want to be really clear what I mean and don’t mean. What I don’t mean is that every woman should have the same ambition. This movement and community is not about everyone a CEO. This is about everyone having real ambitions for whatever they want. The other thing I don’t mean is that there aren’t women out there who are as ambitious as men because there are. But here’s what I do mean: Every survey I have been able to find shows that starting in junior high, if you ask boys and girls, “Do you want to lead?” “Do you want to be the president of your middle school class?” “Do you want to be the president of your college?” “Do you want to run the division you’ve just joined?” “Do you want to be CEO of your company?” at every level, at every stage, more boys than girls say yes. That’s a leadership ambition gap, and no wonder: Little girls figure out really easily that the boys are going to lead and be liked, and they’re going to be told to not be bossy, sit down and speak when spoken to. We don’t use those words anymore, but we do that to little girls. So this is about encouraging girls and women of all ages to lead, embracing leadership, not calling our daughters bossy, not calling our executives aggressive. Unless we start understanding that leadership can be feminine and female, we can’t change this dynamic.
[B]HLN: How do you think corporate America will change because of what you’re doing?
Sandberg: If it changes, it’s not going to be because of me. It’s going to be because of everyone, all together. I think most of us -- myself included -- grew up in our jobs never talking about gender. If Lean In succeeds, it will make gender a topic people talk about. Some circles will work, some circles won’t, some people will love the expert lectures, some won’t, but at the end of the day, we’re talking about gender. My biggest goal in writing this book -- I didn’t know anyone would actually read the book, so I feel really lucky in that -- was that we would start having a national dialogue and that dialogue would lead to action. So if things are different in five years, it’s because what happened to me happens more often.
HLN: What do you mean by that?
Sandberg: A man came to me and said he got feedback that a woman who works for him (at Facebook) is too aggressive. Rather than write “too aggressive” in her performance review, he went back and said to the men and women who gave the feedback, “What did she do that was too aggressive? Please be specific.” They answered and then he said, “If a man had done exactly those same things, would you have thought he was too aggressive?” The answer was no. I believe that conversation squarely on the table doesn’t change everything, but it changes a lot. It gets more women into the power positions where we can reform institutions and reform public policy as we need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXpsX3sZow0
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/09/02/sheryl-sandberg-lean-non-profit-blogher-rachel-thomas
(Link to below quoted article)
Editor's note: HLN caught up with Sheryl Sandberg and Rachel Thomas at the annual BlogHer (http://www.blogher.com/blogher-13) (http://www.blogher.com/blogher-13)conference in Chicago, where Sandberg was a keynote speaker. Sandberg is the chief operating officer of Facebook, author of “Lean In (http://leanin.org/book/),” and founder of LeanIn.org (http://leanin.org/). She is on Twitter (https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg). Thomas (http://leanin.org/stories/rachel-thomas/) is founder and president of LeanIn.org and is on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/rachelsthomas).
HLN: When did you first feel that gender bias was something that needed to be talked about?
Sheryl Sandberg: I went to Google in 2001, and men were in my office asking, “When can I get the next job?” “Where’s my promotion?” And the women -- not all of them, certainly -- but many more would say, “I’m really learning a lot in my current job.” I watched as women are discriminated against, held back by institutional barriers, held back by terrible public policy, but we are also holding ourselves back because the world tells us we can’t -- and, really, we can. And that was when I gave that TED talk. The TED talk went viral and I started getting email after email, letter after letter, mostly from women -- some men -- talking about how it changed their lives, and that’s how I got here. I didn’t mean to do it. I started out admiring women like Lisa Belkin and thinking these are the women who are part of the voice of this. I’m a business person -- I didn’t consider myself that voice. And then I think, “This is just going to take all of us.”
HLN: How can we help women get out of their own way and help themselves?
Rachel Thomas: A lot of this comes down to peer support. It’s much harder for women to get mentors. Lean In circles (http://leanin.org/circles/) is a way that you can start getting support immediately. The value of peer support is documented -- it’s very powerful. We do better when we’re cheered, when we’re coached, when we have confidantes, and that’s what our circles offer.
HLN: How can we encourage a better sense of support among women instead of a sense of competition?
Sandberg: We expect greater niceness from women. Studies show that if a man is asked for a favor in the workplace and he does it, he’s the greatest guy. And if he says no, it’s totally understandable -- he’s busy. If a woman is asked for a favor in the office and she doesn’t do it, she faces penalties, including lower promotions and salary. And if she does it, no one feels grateful. So we have to both change historical patterns, which I do think have changed a lot, and our own biases where we just expect more. I wrote a story in my book about a woman who was really mean to me and how hurt I was. Then I thought about the fact that a lot of men have been mean, and I was annoyed, but I wasn’t hurt. I expected more from her, and I think equal expectations are a big part of this.
HLN: You say leadership inequality starts at an early age and often in the home. What’s the message parents can pass on to their young daughters at home?
Thomas: After I joined Lean In, my kids wanted to know what it was and why I was doing it. I’ll never forget this as long as I live: I looked at [my daughter] and said, “What if I told you that as Daddy gets more successful, people will like him, and as Mommy gets more successful, less people like me?” She looked straight at me and said, “Then I would be less successful so more people like me.” And what I was struck by is that’s so rational. If given the choice between likability and success, I don’t blame a little girl for saying “I’d rather be liked.” That is the type of dialogue that we need to change in the house, because little girls are growing up, thinking very much about the choice between success and likability, and we’re not going to change that until we talk to them differently. My daughter was 5 at the time so obviously, it’s not a super-sophisticated conversation. The words “gender bias” aren’t mentioned. But I did say, “It’s OK to be successful and it’s OK to be good at what you do. In fact, it’s really important, because the better you are at what you do, the more choices you’re going to have as you get older.” My son has called my daughter bossy and I did correct him. That’s no longer a term that’s used in the house. As Sheryl has famously said, “Girls aren’t bossy anymore -- they have executive leadership skills.”
Sandberg: One thing I really feel strongly about is we need to look the leadership ambition gap squarely in the face. I have said there’s an ambition gap. It is not something that everyone likes to hear. It’s not something I like to hear, so I want to be really clear what I mean and don’t mean. What I don’t mean is that every woman should have the same ambition. This movement and community is not about everyone a CEO. This is about everyone having real ambitions for whatever they want. The other thing I don’t mean is that there aren’t women out there who are as ambitious as men because there are. But here’s what I do mean: Every survey I have been able to find shows that starting in junior high, if you ask boys and girls, “Do you want to lead?” “Do you want to be the president of your middle school class?” “Do you want to be the president of your college?” “Do you want to run the division you’ve just joined?” “Do you want to be CEO of your company?” at every level, at every stage, more boys than girls say yes. That’s a leadership ambition gap, and no wonder: Little girls figure out really easily that the boys are going to lead and be liked, and they’re going to be told to not be bossy, sit down and speak when spoken to. We don’t use those words anymore, but we do that to little girls. So this is about encouraging girls and women of all ages to lead, embracing leadership, not calling our daughters bossy, not calling our executives aggressive. Unless we start understanding that leadership can be feminine and female, we can’t change this dynamic.
[B]HLN: How do you think corporate America will change because of what you’re doing?
Sandberg: If it changes, it’s not going to be because of me. It’s going to be because of everyone, all together. I think most of us -- myself included -- grew up in our jobs never talking about gender. If Lean In succeeds, it will make gender a topic people talk about. Some circles will work, some circles won’t, some people will love the expert lectures, some won’t, but at the end of the day, we’re talking about gender. My biggest goal in writing this book -- I didn’t know anyone would actually read the book, so I feel really lucky in that -- was that we would start having a national dialogue and that dialogue would lead to action. So if things are different in five years, it’s because what happened to me happens more often.
HLN: What do you mean by that?
Sandberg: A man came to me and said he got feedback that a woman who works for him (at Facebook) is too aggressive. Rather than write “too aggressive” in her performance review, he went back and said to the men and women who gave the feedback, “What did she do that was too aggressive? Please be specific.” They answered and then he said, “If a man had done exactly those same things, would you have thought he was too aggressive?” The answer was no. I believe that conversation squarely on the table doesn’t change everything, but it changes a lot. It gets more women into the power positions where we can reform institutions and reform public policy as we need.