All Government Offices Are Vacant

[palani]

Whether this is true or not depends upon your own view/status and nothing else. If you believe you are represented by any government employee or contractor then you actually are. If you believe otherwise then what you choose to believe is the truth actually is the truth.

What might be new is that there is a case that you may cite to show this. Finding that case becomes a problem because these type of cases are frequently rubberstamped DO NOT CITE and as a consequence do not get included in any of the court reporter.

http://angellucci.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/bombshell-rod-class-gets-fourth-administrative-ruling-govt-offices-are-vacant-all-govt-officials-are-private-contractors/

Bombshell: Rod Class gets FOURTH Administrative Ruling “Gov’t Offices are Vacant”- All Gov’t Officials are “Private Contractors”


Yes, you read that correctly; it is true, and is now on the court record; black ink on white paper. Please read on:

A lot of us have been exposing the crime of the UNITED STATES corporation for many years, but until recently, no one has had the proof that all government offices are vacant; no one is home; those supposed government offices/agencies are being occupied by PRIVATE CONTRACTORS and are NOT being occupied by a legitimate government body.

This is equivalent to the ice cream man knocking on your door and extorting taxes from you. He has no lawful authority to do anything other than drive the ice cream truck – he’s not a government official; he’s an ice cream man.

Your supposed government officials are nothing more than ice cream men/women who are fraudulently extorting money from you and your family; throwing you in prison; taxing you to death; stealing your children and imposing their will on you, and enforcing their own internal-statutory rules and codes upon you and your family.

Rod Class has now received FOUR Administrative Rulings that prove what many of us have felt to be truth: What you think is government; what you think are legitimate Government Officials/Senators/Congressman/Policeman/Governors/Tax Collectors, etc. are nothing more than private contractors, extorting money from American Citizens and failing to pay off the public debt as they are instructed to do by the 1933 bankruptcy.

What they have done is this:

These people have switched places with the average American Citizen. They are enforcing their own Administrative codes, that are only meant for THEM, upon regular Citizens who are not being paid by the corporation. The supposed elected officials have hoodwinked the country into an employment position without pay. They themselves are taking public money to occupy government seats/positions/agencies, when they are nothing more than private contractors … Felony!

They are treating us as if we are paid government employees; enforcing their own internal rules-regulations-codes, and statutes on the average Citizen, as well as conveniently forgetting to send us our weekly/monthly government employment check.

I’ve been preaching this for the last year + with no avail on this forum. Perhaps now, people will begin to listen and take action.

In these radio shows, Rod explains his Administrative Rulings from the various Judges; explains the con, and shows you, where in their very own US Codes the above aforementioned information is spot on.

[palani]

I see Luis Ewing left a comment at that blog so have included his statement below


Luis Ewing says:
September 14, 2013 at 3:28 AM

This is . . . “BULLSHIT.”

ROD LOST ALL OF THESE CASES AND THEY CAN’T BE CITED FOR SHIT!

THERE IS NO BOMBSHELL HERE, ONLY THE BOMB HE DROPPED IN THE TOILET WHEN HE TOOK A SHIT!

ROD CLASS IS A LEGAL LUNATIC, A MORON AND A DUMB FUCK WHO HAS NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT TO DO IN COURT!

NOTHING HE WRITES IS NEW!

EVERYTHING HE WRITES IS OLD SHIT THAT ALL OF US IN THE KNOW ALREADY KNEW OVER 20 PLUS YEARS AGO, ROD CLASS BRINGS NOTHING NEW TO THE TABLE.

HIS SO CALLED RESEARCH THAT ALLEGEDLY GOES DEEPER WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE IS ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT AND MY BOOTS ARE NOT TALL ENOUGH.

EVERYTHING HE FALSELY CLAIMS TO HAVE DISCOVERED ON THE BANKRUPTCY AND EMERGENCY WAR POWERS ACT IS STUFF HE COPIED AND PLAGERIZED OFF OF EUGENE SHROEDER WHO TAUGHT ALL THE PATRIOT GROUPS THIS BASIC BEGINNER STUFF IN THE LATE 1980′S AND EARLY 1990′S.

ROD IS JUST A JOHNNY COME LATELY COPY CAT AND PLAGERIZER WHO HAS NO LEGAL KNOWLEDGE AND NO LEGAL SKILLS AND LOSES MOST OF HIS CASES!

ROD CLASS IS JUST A PISS POOR LEGAL WRITER, HE COULD NOT EVEN GET A JOB AS A PARA-LEGAL AT THE WORST LAW FIRM IN TOWN!

ANY FIRST YEAR LAW STUDENT AT ANY COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTY COULD DO FAR BETTER!

Sincerely

Luis Ewing

as well as the response


Streets of Love - unconventional says:
September 14, 2013 at 5:38 AM

Luis, that’s the problem with this world. There is no need to attack any One of the other people on this planet. He may be all those things you say, but I doubt the truth and validity of your statements. The International Banking families are behind the problems they established through commerce.

I learned years ago, by personal experience, that when some One attacks another One, the One attacking has a vengeance against the other One because of some thing said, or done against that One and that offense, was not properly handled, dismissed, or forgiven by the One offended.

It really does not matter where the information comes from as long as it is accurate. Those who do, will verify the accuracy or inaccuracies of the article.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

[VX1]

Palani, you're a good influence. I recently thought of you when a received a inherently threatening and coercive letter from the state government, after registering an aircraft, threatening outrageous fines if I don't immediately prove to them that I paid taxes on it. It's not like they researched it and think that I might not have paid; as you know, they just automatically send this crap out. To add insult to injury, they wanted me to pay postage for the "priviledge" of serving them.


I have received a correspondence from your “Service Center”, demanding proof of a
tax tribute to the state in regards to an aircraft, which I have previously paid. I will
agree to submit what you ask to your office, as I have sensed from your letter that
it is of the utmost importance. However, as I am forbidden from purchasing
postage to do, please send a self-addressed stamped envelope, so that I
may forward the these important documents to you as soon as possible. Please
respond within this request within five days, in order let me know that it is
on the way to the address below, so I may begin work on your request.

[palani]

they wanted me to pay postage for the "priviledge" of serving them.
Just curious but if you couldn't pay the postage how was your response sent?

[VX1]

There was an E-mail address at the bottom of the letter. The auditor responded to my E-mail that it was OK to just attach the requested materials back in an E-mail.

[palani]

There was an E-mail address at the bottom of the letter. The auditor responded to my E-mail that it was OK to just attach the requested materials back in an E-mail.
Nice of him but is there a charge for converting the docs to digital format?

I notice the states are relying upon email these days more and more. This is just another point of contact that can get you in trouble. I doubt if I would respond to an email sent by any government entity. These seem to not find their way through the SPAM filter.

Should the government want to communicate with me they pay no postage. Likewise when I communicate with them. I haven't seen any government communication for at least 30 years.

[VX1]

Well, as mentioned, you're a good infuence, but I don't quite have the knowledge and my chess pieces set up to be where you're at, and don't aspire to at the moment. I never stop learning, though. Although I feel little fear of them, I do have a desire to be somewhat reasonable; "honorable", as you'd say... even though I am 100% sure that the government's actions will continue to push my line of what "reasonable" is. To most, it seems that it is perfectly reasonalbe to receive accusitory threats from the government and pay postage to prove your innocence. I'm sure this agency has not received another response like mine all year, and that I'm the crazy one with my response, but little acts like this need to become the norm.

I painted my plane I built in government "colors". The first question I receive from almost everyone isn't "wow, what an achievement...", but instead is "aren't you afraid of getting in trouble?" People have a long way to go to begin shaking off this deathly fear of government.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Getting back to the original point--Are we not all government 'employees' by virtue of having social security numbers? By that I mean consensual employees of the government corporation? Or is that just another piece of mis/disinformation I have absorbed?

Also, don't we betray ourselves by behaving like 'citizens' instead of 'people'? Also, do we not, by our behavior accept the 'jurisdiction' of courts by carrying around driver's licenses, and registering our property with the 'corporation'? And by 'understanding' whatever we are asked of by a judge? Don't we lose our status as free independent autonomous individuals by giving our consent to such a loss? I mean, isn't it entirely up to us whether we are free or not?


Hatha

[palani]

Well, as mentioned, you're a good infuence Just presenting an alternate view. Without a basis for comparison then you might just as well go along to get along. Once you know that there are other choices they can then be included in your own 'arsenal'.



...and don't aspire to at the moment.
The options you choose now will probably be different once you have twenty more years between your ears. That is how life should be approached. You are entitled to make mistakes when you are still learning and you are able to correct those mistakes later.

[palani]

Getting back to the original point--Are we not all government 'employees' by virtue of having social security numbers? By that I mean consensual employees of the government corporation? Or is that just another piece of mis/disinformation I have absorbed?If you should happen to give a SSN to social security when asked ... if you have one then why not provide this number to them? After all , the number belongs to them rather than you.

If another agency asks for this number and that agency has no connection to social security then why are you giving up anothers property to a third party?

There are ways to cancel your connection to any SSN. The 'American dream' seems to be to work hard when you are young and retire early. When the dream becomes a nightmare the time has come to wake up.


don't we betray ourselves by behaving like 'citizens' instead of 'people'? If you are a citizen then aren't you accepting the acts of 'representatives' as your own acts. By acknowledging that you are a citizen you are making yourself liable for knowing ALL the laws that are promulgated for regulating you. This is a serious downside if you know for a fact that there are laws you cannot live with.



Also, do we not, by our behavior accept the 'jurisdiction' of courts by carrying around driver's licenses, and registering our property with the 'corporation'?
You are condemned by the evidence that you provide to obtain such licenses. Registering property with any body politic makes that property theirs rather than yours. Your use can and will be terminated when you don't pay the use fee (property tax/car registration and plates).



And by 'understanding' whatever we are asked of by a judge?
This just records your agreement to be liable for whatever charges they have assigned to you in the instant matter. In court by all means 'understand' if you want to stay and argue further.



Don't we lose our status as free independent autonomous individuals by giving our consent to such a loss? I mean, isn't it entirely up to us whether we are free or not? I don't know who else you could hang your problems on. If you try to blame them on others then what remedy do you have? If you accept responsibility for your own problems then you stand a chance at finding a remedy.

[Glass]

I wondered about the date of the linked post and the date of the material being referred to. The article is dated this month but the material is a fair bit older than that. There are around 150 - 200 more recordings since that material was recorded.

Still the current set of recordings makes for interesting reading because Rod has managed to get himself indicted for carrying a firearm in Washington DC.

So no charges related to any of the freemans stuff he's been pursuing, he gets himself done on a carrying charge.

Now the interesting part of that is, he was indicted by a Grand Jury but the very next day the indictment was quashed BUT then they invited him back to be re-indicted and re-charged. I don't think Rod thought his actions through properly before going back to DC for the re-indictment. It is unclear if he appeared in front of the GJ a second time or not. It sounded like it was a closed indictment. I suspect he volunteered 2nd time around.

[iOWNme]

The North Pole is vacant also.......BECAUSE SANTA CLAUSE DOESN'T EXIST.

:)

[palani]

The North Pole is vacant also.......BECAUSE SANTA CLAUSE DOESN'T EXIST.

:)

I hope you don't frequent the malls at Christmas time with this message.

Your HOUSE is vacant because you engaged it in commerce.

[7th trump]

I hope you don't frequent the malls at Christmas time with this message.

Your HOUSE is vacant because you engaged it in commerce.

How far up lunatic fringe's ass are you Palani?
You really like hanging out there with all the freak armchair lawyers dont you?....its an embarressment to read your comments.
The central US federal government has always been a "corporation" since it inception from back in the days of George Washington.

Look up what a "corporation" is and what is required to make up a corporation.
Corporations have "presidents" and "vice presidents' and officers.

Have you ever stopped and thought about the difference between governors and presidents?
How come the 50 unions states dont have presidents and vice presidents in place of governors?

You get it now palani?.... do you understand how the USofA is put together?
The central federal US government is a fiction "corporation"...always has been and always will be. The 50 union states are not fictions....they have governors, physical boundaries. We have 50 governors because each union state is a "little country" of itself.....complete with their own individual Constitution......complete with sherrifs and state police.
You've got to be the most fucked up in the head individual I've ever met when it comes to understanding law.

Why do you always push the "conspiracy" agenda?
Why do you post stupid idiotic threads that some uneducated retard commented on from another forums?
It obvious this person doesnt have a clue how the US is put together.....but there you are with your thumb up, not only your ass, but his to.

You can close this thread also palani because the subject of this thread is retarded and juvenile.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Getting back to the original point--Are we not all government 'employees' by virtue of having social security numbers? By that I mean consensual employees of the government corporation? Or is that just another piece of mis/disinformation I have absorbed?

Also, don't we betray ourselves by behaving like 'citizens' instead of 'people'? Also, do we not, by our behavior accept the 'jurisdiction' of courts by carrying around driver's licenses, and registering our property with the 'corporation'? And by 'understanding' whatever we are asked of by a judge? Don't we lose our status as free independent autonomous individuals by giving our consent to such a loss? I mean, isn't it entirely up to us whether we are free or not?


Hatha

To the best of my understanding from the research I have done so far the SSN, (SIN# here in Canada), could be used as proof you are a government agent or not depending on how you use it. If you use it at all.

Palani is right the SSN belongs to the gov, they created it.

I think where people get into trouble is because they realize the SSN is fraudulent and they are being taxed because of it but they continue to use the number in their day to day lives.

Look at it this way, you walk into court and claim you are a free man that the gov has no jurisdiction, that the income tax is unconstitutional etc. Then the judge and prosecution look and see that you have a bank account attached to a SSN, a debit and credit card, car loan and mortgage, other "securities", your employer has attached the number as part of their file on you. You use the SSN every single day.

Guess you don't really believe what you are saying about the SSN being a scam then and that they don't have jurisdiction. You voluntarily use their number every day. If you really believed what you are saying you would have stopped using it.

Hope that makes sense. I am still learning.

[palani]

You can close this thread also palani because the subject of this thread is retarded and juvenile.

You jump all over the board but haven't addressed a single issue brought up by the OP.

You been saving up all your gall for the first rainfall of the month?

[Hatha Sunahara]

I followed the link in Palani's original post, and I wound up at this little essay about 'magic fairy control dust':

http://www.dailypaul.com/244165/whats-the-one-document-you-have-in-your-possession-that-gives-you-the-authority-or-jurisdiction-to-control-my-life

And of course this got all my juices flowing with the anticipation that I finally found the key to freeing myself from the parasites that plague me until it occurred to me that if the 'magic fairy control dust' doesn't cast its spell on me and make me a willing participant in being robbed and enslaved, they will send out their armed thugs who will either kill me, or throw me into a cage. We no longer have the 'rule of law' in the USSA. You cannot negotiate with them. They will not voluntarily free their slaves.


Hatha

[7th trump]

You jump all over the board but haven't addressed a single issue brought up by the OP.

You been saving up all your gall for the first rainfall of the month?

What issue besides this dumbass saying, without even one shred of physical proof you can go and read for yourself, government officials are contractors?

This guy is exactly like you palani.
All he does is say a lot of thing that he cannot prove........which in his OP he hasn't!
All I see is his opinion. An opinion based on not understanding what he is talking about. Like incompetents do they allow their anger and frustration to fill in the void they don't understand. In short palani they allow themselves to believe in their own anger and frustration as the truth.
Its hearsay!

So naturally I addressed his short comings by pointing out the federal US government has always been a corporation from its conception.
"Corporations" have presidents and vice president and officers.
Why this guy is miffed about government representatives are all of the sudden corporate officers is beyond me.
They've always been corporate officers since the days of George Washington.

You must have the same conspiracy reasoning as the OP palani why else would you start a thread about corporate officers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Chuck the fucking conspiracy theory mind set you have palani out the window. Until you do you are never going anywhere in understanding law.

[7th trump]

To the best of my understanding from the research I have done so far the SSN, (SIN# here in Canada), could be used as proof you are a government agent or not depending on how you use it. If you use it at all.

Palani is right the SSN belongs to the gov, they created it.

I think where people get into trouble is because they realize the SSN is fraudulent and they are being taxed because of it but they continue to use the number in their day to day lives.

Look at it this way, you walk into court and claim you are a free man that the gov has no jurisdiction, that the income tax is unconstitutional etc. Then the judge and prosecution look and see that you have a bank account attached to a SSN, a debit and credit card, car loan and mortgage, other "securities", your employer has attached the number as part of their file on you. You use the SSN every single day.

Guess you don't really believe what you are saying about the SSN being a scam then and that they don't have jurisdiction. You voluntarily use their number every day. If you really believed what you are saying you would have stopped using it.

Hope that makes sense. I am still learning.

This is the only post that actually comes close to the truth.
And yes palani is correct that the ssn belongs to the government.....that's the only thing palani has ever said correctly.

[7th trump]

I followed the link in Palani's original post, and I wound up at this little essay about 'magic fairy control dust':

http://www.dailypaul.com/244165/whats-the-one-document-you-have-in-your-possession-that-gives-you-the-authority-or-jurisdiction-to-control-my-life

And of course this got all my juices flowing with the anticipation that I finally found the key to freeing myself from the parasites that plague me until it occurred to me that if the 'magic fairy control dust' doesn't cast its spell on me and make me a willing participant in being robbed and enslaved, they will send out their armed thugs who will either kill me, or throw me into a cage. We no longer have the 'rule of law' in the USSA. You cannot negotiate with them. They will not voluntarily frre their slaves.


Hatha

If they send out their thugs its because you are on file as earning 26usc 3121(a) "wages" or a 1099 was reported on you.
All "wage" tax data goes to the Social Security Administration before it ever gets to the IRS.
1099's go to the IRS first who then forward "earnings" information to the Social Security Administration who then credit the individuals Social Security account.

When you earn a "wage" you file a 1040 and the IRS compares that 1040 to the SSA "wage" information (W3) to either assess a deficiency (plus penalty) or issue a refund.
If you don't participate in Social Security nothing is reported in the form of a W3 or a 1099.
If nothing is "reported" then the government will not send out its squad of goons at you because nothing is in their records (SSA) to assess any income tax.

[Ares]

If they send out their thugs its because you are on file as earning 26usc 3121(a) "wages" or a 1099 was reported on you.
All "wage" tax data goes to the Social Security Administration before it ever gets to the IRS.
1099's go to the IRS first who then forward "earnings" information to the Social Security Administration who then credit the individuals Social Security account.

When you earn a "wage" you file a 1040 and the IRS compares that 1040 to the SSA "wage" information (W3) to either assess a deficiency (plus penalty) or issue a refund.
If you don't participate in Social Security nothing is reported in the form of a W3 or a 1099.
If nothing is "reported" then the government will not send out its squad of goons at you because nothing is in their records (SSA) to assess any income tax.

How do you go about relinquishing your SSN? I know Midnight Rambler posted a thread on how to go about opening a bank account without a social slavery number. But how do you get into employment for the purpose of providing for your family without a social slavery number?

I haven't been hired yet by my current employer as I'm still under contract. So I'm definitely interested on how I can go about correcting the presumption that I am earning "wages" when I sign the employment paperwork.

[7th trump]

How do you go about relinquishing your SSN? I know Midnight Rambler posted a thread on how to go about opening a bank account without a social slavery number. But how do you get into employment for the purpose of providing for your family without a social slavery number?

I haven't been hired yet by my current employer as I'm still under contract. So I'm definitely interested on how I can go about correcting the presumption that I am earning "wages" when I sign the employment paperwork.

I used this regulation to instruct the company I work to stop all withholdings and deductions.

301.6109-1(d)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/301.6109-1


(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number— (1) Social security number. Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS-5, which may be obtained from any Social Security Administration or Internal Revenue Service office. He shall make such application far enough in advance of the first required use of such number to permit issuance of the number in time for compliance with such requirement. The form, together with any supplementary statement, shall be prepared and filed in accordance with the form, instructions, and regulations applicable thereto, and shall set forth fully and clearly the data therein called for. U]Individuals who [/U]are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.

What this regulation is saying is you can have a ssn and yet not participate in Social Security if you so wish not to.
Most employers believe that signing a W4 is a requirement by law.....it is not!
This regulation is the proof.

In order for this regulation to stop withholdings and deductions you MUST understand what the form W4 authorizes.
How social security works is every participant is credited the SS account based on quarterly increments. Every quarter is based on hours worked. The more you earn per hour the greater the amount deducted.
What the W4 does is two things.
1. First and foremost, it gives the employer authorization FROM YOU (you sign the W4 voluntarily,......let the argument of the employer making you sign the W4 prior to going to work sit for now. Put it on the back burner.) to treat your earnings as "taxable" (reportable) earnings for the purpose of crediting your ssn account. The SSA credits the account when the employer deducts and sends the money to the SSA who then sends off the deduction amounts to the US Treasury.
2. It also authorizes the employer to withhold federal income taxes to offset the liability come April 15. The withholding amounts are also sent to the SSA who then record and send that amount off to the US Treasury. The IRS doesn't see a dime.

Hey Ares its 11 pm here so I'll have to continue this tomorrow.

[palani]

What issue besides this dumbass saying, without even one shred of physical proof you can go and read for yourself, government officials are contractors?
The information provided in the OP is for information and entertainment only. Have you been entertained? That appears to be happening.

All he does is say a lot of thing that he cannot prove........which in his OP he hasn't! Why don't you write him/her and ask for proof?

All I see is his opinion. This coincides with most of YOUR posts .. nothing but opinions.

An opinion based on not understanding what he is talking about. Is THIS an opinion?

Like incompetents do they allow their anger and frustration to fill in the void they don't understand. In short palani they allow themselves to believe in their own anger and frustration as the truth. And you got your psychological background working at John Deere? I can believe that since I saw a lot of angry and frustrated people there. I suspect that has to do with breathing weld smoke and solvents day in and day out. Want a hint? Get DETOXED. You'll feel a world better.

Its hearsay! Now I will take exception to you on this. Don't you have to actually HEAR something first before you can SAY it?

So naturally I addressed his short comings by pointing out the federal US government has always been a corporation from its conception.
You make this sound like a corporation can slide down a birth canal.

"Corporations" have presidents and vice president and officers. Outhouses also have Sears catalogs. Very little information here. Time to move on.

Why this guy is miffed about government representatives are all of the sudden corporate officers is beyond me. I didn't read about him/her being 'miffed'. Where did you get that idea? Does someone always have to be miffed to present information?

They've always been corporate officers since the days of George Washington. Are you angry over that? Personally this information does not trip my trigger.

You must have the same conspiracy reasoning as the OP ...why else would you start a thread about corporate officers. Would you have anything to vent your gall on if I hadn't?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have never heard you SAY anything.

Chuck the fucking conspiracy theory mind set you have palani out the window. Until you do you are never going anywhere in understanding law.
A conspiracy is two fly's getting together to discuss a horse. Are events that are discussed openly and in public 'conspiracy'? Or does a conspiracy require that you personally get conned out of something? What are your parameters?

[palani]

that's the only thing palani has ever said correctly.
You have never heard me SAY anything. DELUSIONAL!!!

[7th trump]

The information provided in the OP is for information and entertainment only. Have you been entertained? That appears to be happening.
Why don't you write him/her and ask for proof?
This coincides with most of YOUR posts .. nothing but opinions.
Is THIS an opinion?
And you got your psychological background working at John Deere? I can believe that since I saw a lot of angry and frustrated people there. I suspect that has to do with breathing weld smoke and solvents day in and day out. Want a hint? Get DETOXED. You'll feel a world better.
Now I will take exception to you on this. Don't you have to actually HEAR something first before you can SAY it?

You make this sound like a corporation can slide down a birth canal.
Outhouses also have Sears catalogs. Very little information here. Time to move on.
I didn't read about him/her being 'miffed'. Where did you get that idea? Does someone always have to be miffed to present information?
Are you angry over that? Personally this information does not trip my trigger.
Would you have anything to vent your gall on if I hadn't?
I have never heard you SAY anything.

A conspiracy is two fly's getting together to discuss a horse. Are events that are discussed openly and in public 'conspiracy'? Or does a conspiracy require that you personally get conned out of something? What are your parameters?

A-TYPICAL bullshit response from palani.
Seen this type of response many times from palani...its his method of operation.
Instead of trying to make me look like the fool you are palani....why not try and proof him right instead?
Anyway Palani the OP doesn't provide any such evidence to support his rant that in people of Public positions are in FACT contractors.........period!
He doesn't show any supportive documents or well.........anything except his opinion and opinions are....hearsay!
All this guy does is prove to me that he doesn't even have a clue that the federal government has been and always will be a corporation (a fiction, having officers and president and vice president as in all corporations do) outside the ten square mile area it holds a physical boundary to.

[palani]

why not try and proof him right instead?

Me? I'm still trying to figure out if Angel is a guy or a gal. What proof do you have?

http://angellucci.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/sol-signature9.jpg?w=208

Come to think of it I don't even know if YOU are a guy or a doll.

If the latter you wanna go out on a date sometime? You sound HOT!!!

[7th trump]

You have never heard me SAY anything. DELUSIONAL!!!

Wow!
To say I'm delusional because I never heard you "actually" say a word but can read your expressed written thoughts on the subject is well.................alarming!
And to think you want people to continue believing you're on the uppity up even after you play these silly semantic childish games....hahahaha!

You definitely want it both ways don't you palani.
You don't question the "delusional" state of those who read your words when they pay tribute to you but call anyone "delusional" when they question those same "typed" expressed thoughts.

Grow up Palani!

[7th trump]

Me? I'm still trying to figure out if Angel is a guy or a gal. What proof do you have?

http://angellucci.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/sol-signature9.jpg?w=208

Come to think of it I don't even know if YOU are a guy or a doll.

If the latter you wanna go out on a date sometime? You sound HOT!!!

Keep showing everyone the "emperor palani" has no clothes why don't you.....its no skin off my back.

I'm a 45 year old male........and no I'm not interested in males or a date with you.
If you are looking for a date with "guys" you could possible walk the street of downtown davenport to find a prospect.

[palani]

You don't question the "delusional" state of those who read your words when they pay tribute to you

I have never been paid 'tribute'. I have never charged 'tribute'. Again .. DETOX is your best friend. Your mind will never work properly when loaded with toxins.

I remember re-controlling a chrome plater over at Plow and Planter once years ago. The electricians called this area a toxic waste dump. After 8 hours there the sinuses were inflamed and the eyes water. Very similar to a perchlorate recovery system I put in at Alcoa. A few hours in the area and the saliva started feeling slick and silvery.

These industrial environments will end up getting you in the end. Your benefit free retirement will not be worth two cents if you get delusional. You might as well live in a box under the freeway then.

[palani]

I'm a 45 year old male
Do you have PROOF of this?




I'm not interested in males or a date

How do you know I am a guy?

[7th trump]

Do you have PROOF of this?





How do you know I am a guy?

Wow......!
You really want it both ways don't you.
Its ok for you to spout unproven conspiracies and even ok to post article from other people without knowing the facts.
But not ok for anyone else to say something without proving it huh?
How does it feel palani?

[palani]

Its ok for you to spout unproven conspiracies and even ok to post article from other people without knowing the facts.
But not ok for anyone else to say something without proving it huh?
If you cannot even prove to me you are MALE then why should I prove to you that the sky is blue? In fact I cannot prove the sky is blue.

Doesn't it all depend upon the definition of BLUE and of SKY?

For example, I define SKY as BLUE. I have now proved to you that whenever I mention the word SKY that I am actually describing the color BLUE.

Oh .. wait ... I never really defined BLUE as a color did I?

Ok ... let's correct that now

I define BLUE as the spectrum of the light reflected from the SKY.

Dang ... now I have another problem. What do I do when the SKY reflects GRAY?

Just compounded my problem AGAIN didn't I? Now I have something called GRAY in there.

See how one problem leads to another?

[midnight rambler]

SOME people live to be contrarian, no matter what -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tdGCvGRtEo

[Ares]

I used this regulation to instruct the company I work to stop all withholdings and deductions.

301.6109-1(d)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/301.6109-1



What this regulation is saying is you can have a ssn and yet not participate in Social Security if you so wish not to.
Most employers believe that signing a W4 is a requirement by law.....it is not!
This regulation is the proof.

In order for this regulation to stop withholdings and deductions you MUST understand what the form W4 authorizes.
How social security works is every participant is credited the SS account based on quarterly increments. Every quarter is based on hours worked. The more you earn per hour the greater the amount deducted.
What the W4 does is two things.
1. First and foremost, it gives the employer authorization FROM YOU (you sign the W4 voluntarily,......let the argument of the employer making you sign the W4 prior to going to work sit for now. Put it on the back burner.) to treat your earnings as "taxable" (reportable) earnings for the purpose of crediting your ssn account. The SSA credits the account when the employer deducts and sends the money to the SSA who then sends off the deduction amounts to the US Treasury.
2. It also authorizes the employer to withhold federal income taxes to offset the liability come April 15. The withholding amounts are also sent to the SSA who then record and send that amount off to the US Treasury. The IRS doesn't see a dime.

Hey Ares its 11 pm here so I'll have to continue this tomorrow.

If you get a chance, can you continue?

[Santa]

Back in the 80's, while working for a City as a bus driver, I was offered a document to sign which allowed me to choose whether or not to pay into SS. Thereafter, I had no SS taken out by that employer.

[7th trump]

If you get a chance, can you continue?

Not a problem Ares.
I'll write a little bit each day if I can.
At work we are on shut down which is taking most of my time.
I have five teams of technicians and electricians that I'm over to completely rewire the network infrastructure in a huge factory. All copper and fiber optics are being completely ripped out and replaced with new including a redundancy system in the next 4 weeks.
Not including starting my week out this morning at the court house for jury duty which after 6 hours of talking with two lawyers I didn't get picked for jury duty (but what an experience).

Starting where I left off.
Ok....that regulation I showed you is an administrative regulation. The word "administrative" says it all. This regulation is an interpretive regulation for employers, and the like, when it comes to disclosing confidential ssn's on government forms.
As you can see the regulation states that an individual doesn't have to participate in Social security even if they have a ssn. Paragraph "b" if you were to read it basically states if you are required to disclose the ssn on government forms you must disclose the number.
The W4 is not a form required by the government. Its not required because the Social Security Act has no provision in it saying participation is compelled performance. There is no law on any law books saying every American must participate....and for good reason which I'll eventually get to in full circle. Hopefully when I'm done explaining this in layman terms you'll completely understand why the Social Security Act has no mandatory participation clause in it.
This is why its very important in understanding what you are authorizing the employer by signing that W4.
Ok...prior the Social Security Act of 1935 there was no such W4 form in existence that common Americans signed in order to provide for themselves or their family.
Americans basically went to an employer and hoped to get hired. Once hired at the end of the work week they were paid 100% of their pay unless a local city tax was applied, a temporary war tax or they actually worked for the government where they were imposed constitutionally.
Moving forward to after the enactment of Social Security our pay is now no longer simple accounting. What I mean by simple accounting is if you were hired at $3.00 an hour for 40 hours your pay check would be $120.00 cash.
With the advent of Social Security your earnings took on a new definition.....actually definitions. Ares to help you understand what I mean by "new definition" go get an old W2 out of the filing cabinet and take a look at the various boxes on the W2.
You'll notice 3(three) different "wages" on the W2.
Box 1 is "Wages, tips, other compensation".
Box 3 is "Social Security wages".
Box 5 is "Medicare wages and tips".
The one thing about these three boxes is even though they say you earned 3 different kinds of "wages" the amounts in these three boxes are all the same. If you earned 50,000.00 for the year all three boxes will have 50,000.00 in them......question is did you earn 50,000.00 of "wages" box 1 and 50,000.00 of Social Security wages box 3 and another 50,000.00 of medicare wages box 5 totaling 150,000.00?
You may think what does this have to do with anything?
Bare with me Ares, it comes into play in helping you understand when I get into the Internal Revenue laws where I'll dive right into the statutes....for me the statutes is where the rubber meets the road.....it gets very interesting and clarifying.
For most people the taxing statutes can be very confusing....they were for me in the start of this "taxation" venture 15 years ago. Now knowing what I understand about "wages" the statutes fall into place.

[Ares]

Not a problem Ares.
I'll write a little bit each day if I can.
At work we are on shut down which is taking most of my time.
I have five teams of technicians and electricians that I'm over to completely rewire the network infrastructure in a huge factory. All copper and fiber optics are being completely ripped out and replaced with new including a redundancy system in the next 4 weeks.
Not including starting my week out this morning at the court house for jury duty which after 6 hours of talking with two lawyers I didn't get picked for jury duty (but what an experience).

Starting where I left off.
Ok....that regulation I showed you is an administrative regulation. The word "administrative" says it all. This regulation is an interpretive regulation for employers, and the like, when it comes to disclosing confidential ssn's on government forms.
As you can see the regulation states that an individual doesn't have to participate in Social security even if they have a ssn. Paragraph "b" if you were to read it basically states if you are required to disclose the ssn on government forms you must disclose the number.
The W4 is not a form required by the government. Its not required because the Social Security Act has no provision in it saying participation is compelled performance. There is no law on any law books saying every American must participate....and for good reason which I'll eventually get to in full circle. Hopefully when I'm done explaining this in layman terms you'll completely understand why the Social Security Act has no mandatory participation clause in it.
This is why its very important in understanding what you are authorizing the employer by signing that W4.

Thanks, appreciate the break down. I knew you've said, and have read that SSN is mandatory. But never really understood how. So any clarification is always appreciated.

[7th trump]

Thanks, appreciate the break down. I knew you've said, and have read that SSN is mandatory. But never really understood how. So any clarification is always appreciated.
I'm going to keep editing post #36 as long as I can. This way I can keep everything together until I cant edit any longer and forced to start a new post.


Well going to a post from yesterday I don't see the edit link any longer.....must be a cut off time where you no longer can edit.
Mods......can the ability to edit older posts be reinstated or applied or is the software not allowing for this?

[Glass]

yep you can only edit for a limited period then it gets locked. Been spoken to before. the idea was to stop people being able to go through the forum and delete all their posts. We had someone do that a while back when OHL and some others left around the same time.

[7th trump]

yep you can only edit for a limited period then it gets locked. Been spoken to before. the idea was to stop people being able to go through the forum and delete all their posts. We had someone do that a while back when OHL and some others left around the same time.

Can that be changed on an individual basis?

[7th trump]

This is the statute that tells employers what must be listed on the W2's.

26usc 6051

(a) Requirement
Every person required to deduct and withhold from an employee a tax under section 3101 or 3402, or who would have been required to deduct and withhold a tax under section 3402 (determined without regard to subsection (n)) if the employee had claimed no more than one withholding exemption, or every employer engaged in a trade or business who pays remuneration for services performed by an employee, including the cash value of such remuneration paid in any medium other than cash, shall furnish to each such employee in respect of the remuneration paid by such person to such employee during the calendar year, on or before January 31 of the succeeding year, or, if his employment is terminated before the close of such calendar year, within 30 days after the date of receipt of a written request from the employee if such 30-day period ends before January 31, a written statement showing the following:

(1) the name of such person,

(2) the name of the employee (and his social security account number if wages as defined in section 3121 (a) have been paid),

(3) the total amount of wages as defined in section 3401 (a),

(4) the total amount deducted and withheld as tax under section 3402,

(5) the total amount of wages as defined in section 3121 (a),

(6) the total amount deducted and withheld as tax under section 3101,

[(7) Repealed. Pub. L. 111–226, title II, § 219(a)(3),Aug. 10, 2010, 124 Stat. 2403]

(8) the total amount of elective deferrals (within the meaning of section 402 (g)(3)) and compensation deferred under section 457, including the amount of designated Roth contributions (as defined in section 402A),

(9) the total amount incurred for dependent care assistance with respect to such employee under a dependent care assistance program described in section 129 (d),

(10) in the case of an employee who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, such employee’s earned income as determined for purposes of section 32 (relating to earned income credit),

(11) the amount contributed to any Archer MSA (as defined in section 220(d)) of such employee or such employee’s spouse,

(12) the amount contributed to any health savings account (as defined in section 223(d)) of such employee or such employee’s spouse,

(13) the total amount of deferrals for the year under a nonqualified deferred compensation plan (within the meaning of section 409A (d)), and

(14) the aggregate cost (determined under rules similar to the rules of section 4980B(f)(4)) of applicable employer-sponsored coverage (as defined in section 4980I (d)(1)), except that this paragraph shall not apply to—

Please read this over and see if you see something odd regarding the ssn.

[Glass]

This is the statute that tells employers what must be listed on the W2's.

26usc 6051


Please read this over and see if you see something odd regarding the ssn.

This bit here stood out to me....at a glance. Need to re read.


if wages as defined in section 3121 (a) have been paid),

[Ares]

(2) the name of the employee (and his social security account number if wages as defined in section 3121 (a) have been paid)

That stood out as well, so I went and looked up 26 U.S.C. 3121.

Too long to post what it details here, it goes over the 30,000 character limit.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/3121

[7th trump]

Thats exactly what I wanted you to notice. The 3121(a) "wage" are what the gvernment defines your 40 hour work week earnings for purposes of "reporting" to the Social Security Administration to credit your acount.
Without a ssn on a W2 theres no way of crediting the proper SS account. How many John Smiths are there in the United States?
And as you see the ssn is hinged on "IF" 3121(a) "wages" have been earned.

Also, notice in the body of the paragraph where the imposition originates from.

(a) Requirement
Every person required to deduct and withhold from an employee a tax under section 3101 or 3402, or who would have been required to deduct and withhold a tax under section 3402 (determined without regard to subsection (n)) if the employee had claimed no more than one withholding exemption, or every employer engaged in a trade or business who pays remuneration for services performed by an employee, including the cash value of such remuneration paid in any medium other than cash, shall furnish to each such employee in respect of the remuneration paid by such person to such employee during the calendar year, on or before January 31 of the succeeding year, or, if his employment is terminated before the close of such calendar year, within 30 days after the date of receipt of a written request from the employee if such 30-day period ends before January 31, a written statement showing the following:

These two statutes "3101" and "3402" are the statutes that impose both the tax for Social Security and.........the federal income taxes.
You can guess that 3101 originates from Social Security since 3121(a) "wages" are used to define your earnings.
The 3402 is the statutes that authorizes the deduction from your earnings to offset the federal liability.

Ok my break time here at work is over. You guys did great in catching what I wanted you to notice.
I've shown what I shown to you guys to two very well so-called known antitax guru's and they didnt even see it.

[Ares]

Thats exactly what I wanted you to notice. The 3121(a) "wage" are what the gvernment defines your 40 hour work week earnings for purposes of "reporting" to the Social Security Administration to credit your acount.
Without a ssn on a W2 theres no way of crediting the proper SS account. How many John Smiths are there in the United States?
And as you see the ssn is hinged on "IF" 3121(a) "wages" have been earned.

Also, notice in the body of the paragraph where the imposition originates from.


These two statutes "3101" and "3402" are the statutes that impose both the tax for Social Security and.........the federal income taxes.
You can guess that 3101 originates from Social Security since 3121(a) "wages" are used to define your earnings.
The 3402 is the statutes that authorizes the deduction from your earnings to offset the federal liability.

Ok my break time here at work is over. You guys did great in catching what I wanted you to notice.
I've shown what I shown to you guys to two very well so-called known antitax guru's and they didnt even see it.

Here they define wages:

(a) Wages
For purposes of this chapter, the term “wages” means all remuneration for employment, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include—

It seems they include any medium other than "cash" as wages. (If I'm reading that right, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

And then it goes through the terms, which takes up about 4 pages. Does that mean your salary is "cash". :)

[7th trump]

Here they define wages:

(a) Wages
For purposes of this chapter, the term “wages” means all remuneration for employment, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include—

It seems they include any medium other than "cash" as wages. (If I'm reading that right, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

And then it goes through the terms, which takes up about 4 pages. Does that mean your salary is "cash". :)

Yes, you are reading that correctly.
An example would be working for a farmer and getting paid in the form of a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs and a chicken for the frying pan all three would have a 3121(a) "wage" value.
If you were paid a company trip to mexico, as a benefit, that value amount would be considered 3121(a) "wages".
You'd be liable for the taxes on that benefit based on the cash value.

[7th trump]

Lets take a look at section 3101.

26usc 3101

a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) received by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b))—

See anything in this statute that stands out?
There's two (actually three) very important aspects about this statute.
Can anybody tell me in layman's terms what this statute is saying?

This is the statute where, so far, every tax-protester guru I've spoken with, thinks they figured out how to stop paying income tax fails.
Even the quatloos pro-tax, big government, lawyers never get around this statute. This one stops them right in their tracks just like all the tax protester guru's get walled.

[Ares]

a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) received by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b))—

Let me know if Bolded the right sections, but those are the ones that stood out to me.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Thanks for putting all this down 7th Trump. It is gold even though I live in Canada it has the gears working in my head for when I read over Canada tax law.

I knew through logical deduction that without the SIN (SSN) you wouldn't have to pay tax. They wouldn't have an account number on you and wouldn't be able to assign one because they wouldn't even know who you were plus they would have no consenting signature.

The form here in Canada to sign up for SIN actually says on the bottom that the program is voluntary. Parents continue to idiotically sign their children up for a lifetime of tax though.

[7th trump]

Let me know if Bolded the right sections, but those are the ones that stood out to me.

You hit a few Ares, but good job.

I have a few minutes during my lunch break here so I'll just post a little now and finish later tonight.
As Ares pointed out 3121(a) "wages" can only be earned by being 3121(b) "employed". The statute specifically states 3121(a) "wages" are in RESPECT to 3121(b) "employment".
In laymens terms you can only earn 3121(a) "wages" from participating in Social Security which is being 3121(b) "employed".
Being "employed" for the purpose of Social Security is one thing, but working for someone and getting paid outside of Social Security is another.

Now that you know and understand that 3121(a) "wages" are restricted (in respect) to participating in Social Security I'll point out what else I was hoping you guys would catch.
The very begining of 3101 it states "In addition to other taxes,".
What this means is not only are you, as an employee who particiates in Social Security, going to be imposed a tax for the purpose of social security you are also going to be imposed other taxes as a result of earning 3121(a) "wages" that are inrespect to 3121(b) "employment". You going to be hit with multiple tax impositions because of participating in Social Securty.
Any guesses what these other taxes are?
Heres a hint: remember what I said is common between Box 1,3 and 5 on the W2.

[Ares]

You hit a few Ares, but good job.

I have a few minutes during my lunch break here so I'll just post a little now and finish later tonight.
As Ares pointed out 3121(a) "wages" can only be earned by being 3121(b) "employed". The statute specifically states 3121(a) "wages" are in RESPECT to 3121(b) "employment".
In laymens terms you can only earn 3121(a) "wages" from participating in Social Security which is being 3121(b) "employed".
Being "employed" for the purpose of Social Security is one thing, but working for someone and getting paid outside of Social Security is another.

Now that you know and understand that 3121(a) "wages" are restricted (in respect) to participating in Social Security I'll point out what else I was hoping you guys would catch.
The very begining of 3101 it states "In addition to other taxes,".
What this means is not only are you, as an employee who particiates in Social Security, going to be imposed a tax for the purpose of social security you are also going to be imposed other taxes as a result of earning 3121(a) "wages" that are inrespect to 3121(b) "employment". You going to be hit with multiple tax impositions because of participating in Social Securty.
Any guesses what these other taxes are?
Heres a hint: remember what I said is common between Box 1,3 and 5 on the W2.

Ok, I see. Those additional taxes levied are are on "Wages". W-2 form Box 1 Tips and other Compensation, Box 3 Social Security Wages, and Box 5, Medicare Wages, and Tips.

So when you sign a W-2 for employment you are agreeing that you are working for the Social Security Administration, and as such your income is now classified as "wages" which triggers additional levies on your income.

[7th trump]

Ok, I see. Those additional taxes levied are are on "Wages". W-2 form Box 1 Tips and other Compensation, Box 3 Social Security Wages, and Box 5, Medicare Wages, and Tips.

So when you sign a W-2 for employment you are agreeing that you are working for the Social Security Administration, and as such your income is now classified as "wages" which triggers additional levies on your income.

I wouldn't necessarily say you are working for the government. The government isn't the one paying you.
Signing the W4 is authorizing the employer to treat your would be nontaxable earnings into taxable SOCIAL SECURITY EMPLOYMENT "wages".

And yes, the other taxes are those found in box1 and box 5.....box 3 are Social Security 3121(a) "wages"....all three boxes lists the same amount.
Next I will go into 3401(a) "wages" (box 1) stemming from the imposition of 3402 like the paragraph and show you that 3401(a) "wages" do consists of 3121(a) "wages".

[palani]

I wouldn't necessarily say you are working for the government.
Whenever any news story appears on the economy they are talking of YOUR job. The economy belongs to the government and is how they reward their servants or punish them. You don't see this directly so your opinion is that you are not working for government but ALL corporations are the creation of the executive branch of government. In the plane of a corporate government there are only corporations. There are no people. People don't obey statutes and they don't obey STOP signs for one reason ... neither statute nor STOP sign has the authority to make you obey.

Corporations obey statutes. Corporations stop at all STOP signs. For one reason ... because they are told to obey.

Frickin' robots.

You sit there and study statutes to see if you might find a logical flaw in them and when you spot something that seems to fit your theory you run with it. But you are still attempting to follow a statute to the letter just like your corporate employer.

[7th trump]

Whenever any news story appears on the economy they are talking of YOUR job. The economy belongs to the government and is how they reward their servants or punish them. You don't see this directly so your opinion is that you are not working for government but ALL corporations are the creation of the executive branch of government. In the plane of a corporate government there are only corporations. There are no people. People don't obey statutes and they don't obey STOP signs for one reason ... neither statute nor STOP sign has the authority to make you obey.

Corporations obey statutes. Corporations stop at all STOP signs. For one reason ... because they are told to obey.

Frickin' robots.

You sit there and study statutes to see if you might find a logical flaw in them and when you spot something that seems to fit your theory you run with it. But you are still attempting to follow a statute to the letter just like your corporate employer.

Fare enough palani.
However, I study the statutes not to find a flaw which in my opinion is to play a semantic game with the government. The statutes are very straight forward. Every tax protester I read up on looks to the codes to find any flaw in them has always lost in court and is or has sat in prison for playing a semantic game with the statutes.
I study the tax statutes to understand how not to get entangled in them, to stay away from them. To cut to the chase what ever is "reportable" is taxable and what ever is taxable is "reportable".

At the same time corporations are required to follow statutes there is no law anywhere on the books saying an individual must participate in social security and earn 3121(a) "wages". There are laws and court cases saying the government cannot pass any law or Act, such as the Social Security Act, compelling participation where the government imposes tax's. The government cannot compel someone into doing something that causes the government to tax them.
What I'm doing here is showing how the government has passed an Act that allows the earnings to become "reportable". Then I'm going to show you what you dont do and how to stand on to your rights.
In the end you'll know what you'll need to do to:
1. Make your earnings "unreportable".
2. Help the company you work for be more profitable by making your earning "unreportable".
3. How to defend yourself from the government.

Yeah it sounds like an impossibility, but its all very straight forward and easy and the best part of it all is its all using laws and statutes.

[Ares]

Bumping for 7th to Continue if he's around this weekend.

[7th trump]

Bumping for 7th to Continue if he's around this weekend.

Yea...I'm here Ares. I haven't forgotten you.
Just came home from a 11 hour day at work.
Tomorrow is another 8 to 10 hours.

[Ares]

Yea...I'm here Ares. I haven't forgotten you.
Just came home from a 11 hour day at work.
Tomorrow is another 8 to 10 hours.

Ok, no worries. Take your time. I've still got about 3 weeks left on contract for my employer before they officially hire me. Just want to get my ducks in a row before I attempt the opt out.

[7th trump]

Ok onto the 26usc 3402 imposition found in the 26usc 6051 statute that says what information is to be required on the W2. This imposition is the well known "federal income tax" imposition.
In order be imposed this federal tax on your labor the individual must have been paid 26usc 3401(a) "wages" (box 1 on the W2).
So how does earning 3121(a) "wages" relate to this federal income tax?

Lets see if anyone can follow this statute.


26 USC § 3401 - Definitions

(a) Wages
For purposes of this chapter, the term “wages” means all remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for services performed by an employee for his employer, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include remuneration paid—

(1) for active service performed in a month for which such employee is entitled to the benefits of section 112 (relating to certain combat zone compensation of members of the Armed Forces of the United States) to the extent remuneration for such service is excludable from gross income under such section; or

(2) for agricultural labor (as defined in section 3121 (g)) unless the remuneration paid for such labor is wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)); or

(3) for domestic service in a private home, local college club, or local chapter of a college fraternity or sorority; or

(4) for service not in the course of the employer’s trade or business performed in any calendar quarter by an employee, unless the cash remuneration paid for such service is $50 or more and such service is performed by an individual who is regularly employed by such employer to perform such service. For purposes of this paragraph, an individual shall be deemed to be regularly employed by an employer during a calendar quarter only if—
(A) on each of some 24 days during such quarter such individual performs for such employer for some portion of the day service not in the course of the employer’s trade or business; or

The rest of the statute can be viewed in full here http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/3401 .

[Ares]

So if you declare that you are being paid in "cash" on the W-2, you are getting around the terminology of earning "wages"?

[7th trump]

So if you declare that you are being paid in "cash" on the W-2, you are getting around the terminology of earning "wages"?

Actually no.
"Cash" has nothing at all to do with anything really.
The W2 is result of signing a W4.
There are two forms resulting from a W4.
The purpose of a W4 is to authorize the employer to treat your otherwise "nonreportable" cash earnings as "reportable" statutory defined "wages"..............you want to stay away from your earning being labeled a statutory "wage".
When you sign a W4 there will be two other forms as a result.
The first form is a W3. This W3 is the form the employer sends to the Social Security Administration (SSA). This W3 list the amounts of "wages" earned and amounts deductions the employer sends to the SSA on a quarterly basis. The money deducted goes directly to the Treasury, the IRS doesnt see a dime.
The SSA inputs these amounts from the W3 into the system. Once in the system the IRS compares the W2 thats attached to the 1040 with the info the SSA inputed into the system from the W3. If its a match then the 1040 is deemed good and no audit is required.
If theres a problem with the 1040 the IRS sends out a letter indicating the errors and asks for more money. Or if the error is in your favor they notify you and send a bigger treasury refund check.

But the key here is to understand how your earnings become "reportable" "wages" and do the opposite.
Theres a huge amount of discussion with 3401(a) "wages" that I dont have time during my break so I will address them sometime later.

[Ares]

Actually no.
"Cash" has nothing at all to do with anything really.
The W2 is result of signing a W4.
There are two forms resulting from a W4.
The purpose of a W4 is to authorize the employer to treat your otherwise "nonreportable" cash earnings as "reportable" statutory defined "wages"..............you want to stay away from your earning being labeled a statutory "wage".
When you sign a W4 there will be two other forms as a result.
The first form is a W3. This W3 is the form the employer sends to the Social Security Administration (SSA). This W3 list the amounts of "wages" earned and amounts deductions the employer sends to the SSA on a quarterly basis. The money deducted goes directly to the Treasury, the IRS doesnt see a dime.
The SSA inputs these amounts from the W3 into the system. Once in the system the IRS compares the W2 thats attached to the 1040 with the info the SSA inputed into the system from the W3. If its a match then the 1040 is deemed good and no audit is required.
If theres a problem with the 1040 the IRS sends out a letter indicating the errors and asks for more money. Or if the error is in your favor they notify you and send a bigger treasury refund check.

But the key here is to understand how your earnings become "reportable" "wages" and do the opposite.
Theres a huge amount of discussion with 3401(a) "wages" that I dont have time during my break so I will address them sometime later.

Thanks for the clarification. Been looking over Obummercare, and it too is also tied to "wages" for taxation purposes.

[7th trump]

Thanks for the clarification. Been looking over Obummercare, and it too is also tied to "wages" for taxation purposes.

Yep it is.
I did some research over obummercare a few months ago after finding it codified under Social Security. Obummercare is just an extention of Social Security.
Social Security is completely voluntry and when you decide to not participate obummercare is made completely toothless as is the IRS.

Theres a reason why the IRS can issue a penalty for not having healthcare......because its directly tied to Social Security which is the reason why you are imposed the federal income tax.

[Ares]

I've been a contractor at my current place of employment, yesterday I was asked to officially apply for the position. Figure now is a good time to learn how to make my wages not reported before I get officially hired. :)

[EE_]

I've been a contractor at my current place of employment, yesterday I was asked to officially apply for the position. Figure now is a good time to learn how to make my wages not reported before I get officially hired. :)

Congrats! Sounds like you're going to hang around for a while.
All you need now is a great home with a great piece of land.

[Ares]

Congrats! Sounds like you're going to hang around for a while.
All you need now is a great home with a great piece of land.

I know, wife and I have been looking in South Carolina. Lower taxes, good schools, and land can be acquired relatively inexpensively. :)

[EE_]

I know, wife and I have been looking in South Carolina. Lower taxes, good schools, and land can be acquired relatively inexpensively. :)

I considered area outside Greenville, SC
Have you gotten to bum around a little yet, Asheville, Blue Ridge Pkwy, Lake Lure, Blowing Rock?
Found any great barbeque places?

[Ares]

There's actually a pretty good Barbeque place close to my rental here. It's on the main stretch in Mount Holly. Eaten there a couple times already. Pretty good. Place is always packed too. Haven't done much travel through upstate NC. We're looking at the clover area of SC currently, but that could change lol.

[7th trump]

Back to 3401(a) "wages" (box 1 on the W2).


26 USC § 3401 - Definitions

(a) Wages
For purposes of this chapter, the term “wages” means all remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for services performed by an employee for his employer, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include remuneration paid—

(1) for active service performed in a month for which such employee is entitled to the benefits of section 112 (relating to certain combat zone compensation of members of the Armed Forces of the United States) to the extent remuneration for such service is excludable from gross income under such section; or

(2) for agricultural labor (as defined in section 3121 (g)) unless the remuneration paid for such labor is wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)); or

(3) for domestic service in a private home, local college club, or local chapter of a college fraternity or sorority; or

(4) for service not in the course of the employer’s trade or business performed in any calendar quarter by an employee, unless the cash remuneration paid for such service is $50 or more and such service is performed by an individual who is regularly employed by such employer to perform such service. For purposes of this paragraph, an individual shall be deemed to be regularly employed by an employer during a calendar quarter only if—
(A) on each of some 24 days during such quarter such individual performs for such employer for some portion of the day service not in the course of the employer’s trade or business; or
Lets start with the beginning paragraph of 3401(a). Here it says " For purposes of this chapter".
To clear up any confusion about why there is three different types of "wages" listed on the W2 we need to understand what the purpose of this chapter is all about.
So far the participating individual of Social Security earns 3121(a) "wages" (box 3 on the W2). But what is this 3401(a) "wage" all about?
Earlier I mentioned if you earned 50,000.00 for the year and the W2 lists three different types of wages all of which lists 50,000.00 each (box 1, 3 and 5) did you earn a total of 150,000.00?
No, you didn't earn a total of 150,000.00, but a total of 50,000.00 so why the 3 different wages characteristics?
Ok, this 3401(a) "wage" is found in chapter 24 whereas 3121(a) "wages" is found in chapter 21.
The purpose of chapter 24 can be easily understood by looking directly at the type of imposition found in chapter 24.
The imposition is found at statute 26usc 3402 just as section, or statute, 26usc 6051 says.
Remember statute 6051?



6051(a)
(a) Requirement
Every person required to deduct and withhold from an employee a tax under section 3101 or 3402, or who would have been required to deduct and withhold a tax under section 3402 (determined without regard to subsection (n)) if the employee had claimed no more than one withholding exemption, or every employer engaged in a trade or business who pays remuneration for services performed by an employee, including the cash value of such remuneration paid in any medium other than cash, shall furnish to each such employee in respect of the remuneration paid by such person to such employee during the calendar year, on or before January 31 of the succeeding year, or, if his employment is terminated before the close of such calendar year, within 30 days after the date of receipt of a written request from the employee if such 30-day period ends before January 31, a written statement showing the following:

(1) the name of such person,
(2) the name of the employee (and his social security account number if wages as defined in section 3121 (a) have been paid),
(3) the total amount of wages as defined in section 3401 (a),
(4) the total amount deducted and withheld as tax under section 3402,
(5) the total amount of wages as defined in section 3121 (a),
(6) the total amount deducted and withheld as tax under section 3101,
(7) Repealed. Pub. L. 111–226, title II, § 219(a)(3),Aug. 10, 2010, 124 Stat. 2403]
(8) the total amount of elective deferrals

We already know the purpose of the 3101 imposition.....social security deductions. So what's the purpose of 3402?
Lets go to 3402 to find out.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/3402

(a) Requirement of withholding
(1) In general
Except as otherwise provided in this section, every employer making payment of wages shall deduct and withhold upon such wages a tax determined in accordance with tables or computational procedures prescribed by the Secretary. Any tables or procedures prescribed under this paragraph shall—

(A) apply with respect to the amount of wages paid during such periods as the Secretary may prescribe, and

(B) be in such form, and provide for such amounts to be deducted and withheld, as the Secretary determines to be most appropriate to carry out the purposes of this chapter and to reflect the provisions of chapter 1 applicable to such periods.

See anything catching your attention?
There should be something catching your attention.........."wages"......and the deduction and withholding to reflect the provisions of chapter 1.
What's chapter 1?
Chapter 1 is where we find the federal income tax imposition.
What this is saying is the employer is required to withhold and deduct amounts from an employees "wage" in accordance to tax tables found in Chapter 1 (federal income tax liability).
You might ask yourself "ok", but section 3402 doesn't define what this "wage" consists of.
NO sweat......lets go one(1) section before 3402 and look at 3401.
3401 is the section that defines this "wage" the employer is required to deduct and withhold from.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/3401


3401(a) Wages
For purposes of this chapter, the term “wages” means all remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for services performed by an employee for his employer, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include remuneration paid—

(1) for active service performed in a month for which such employee is entitled to the benefits of section 112 (relating to certain combat zone compensation of members of the Armed Forces of the United States) to the extent remuneration for such service is excludable from gross income under such section; or

(2) for agricultural labor (as defined in section 3121 (g)) unless the remuneration paid for such labor is wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)); or

(3) for domestic service in a private home, local college club, or local chapter of a college fraternity or sorority; or

(4) for service not in the course of the employer’s trade or business performed in any calendar quarter by an employee, unless the cash remuneration paid for such service is $50 or more and such service is performed by an individual who is regularly employed by such employer to perform such service. For purposes of this paragraph, an individual shall be deemed to be regularly employed by an employer during a calendar quarter only if—
(A) on each of some 24 days during such quarter such individual performs for such employer for some portion of the day service not in the course of the employer’s trade or business; or.................
Ok, so what does this have to do with Social Security?
It has everything to do with participating in Social Security.
See anything here relating Social Security or 3121(a) "wages" or even 3121(b) "employment"?
Which by the way 3121(b) "employment" is the heart and soul of social security. Without 3121(b) "employment", Social Security doesn't exists.
Take a close look at (2) regarding 3121(g) and think about what that says if 3121g is deemed 3121(a) "wages".
It specifically states if agricultural work defined as 3121(g) then it is not 3401(a) "wages", but if its considered 3121(a) "wages" then its also considered 3401(a) "wages" and therefore subject to the 3402 withholding and deduction requirement.
Now after this sinks in real deep ask yourself if you do not participate in social security does any of your earnings constitute as 3121(a) "wages" and also be subject to withholding and deductions?

What you should come to conclude is in order for the federal government (IRS) to have an interest in your earnings it must first be deemed a 3121(a) "wage".
Ok if any of you are in need of further proof your earnings must be first deemed 3121(a) "wages" by participating in Social security I have this tidbit of information I dug up 5 years ago while searching the Social Security website.
Ok I cant find what I want to show you on my computer, but I have it on a thumb drive so give me some time to find it.

[Ares]

Now after this sinks in real deep ask yourself if you do not participate in social security does any of your earnings constitute as 3121(a) "wages" and also be subject to withholding and deductions?

To me it looks like they tried to word it to include everything you earn being an employee as "wages" so as to get as many people as possible into the system.
Now for your question, if you do not participate in Social Security, then no none of your earnings constitute 3121(a) "wages". At least if I understand it correctly.

[7th trump]

To me it looks like they tried to word it to include everything you earn being an employee as "wages" so as to get as many people as possible into the system.
Now for your question, if you do not participate in Social Security, then no none of your earnings constitute 3121(a) "wages". At least if I understand it correctly.
Yes, you are correct Ares.
Not only that Ares, but if you don't participate in Social Security your earnings don't even qualify as 3401(a) "wages" for the employer to be required to withhold and deduct.
Take a look at 3402(e)


(e) Included and excluded wages
If the remuneration paid by an employer to an employee for services performed during one-half or more of any payroll period of not more than 31 consecutive days constitutes wages, all the remuneration paid by such employer to such employee for such period shall be deemed to be wages; but if the remuneration paid by an employer to an employee for services performed during more than one-half of any such payroll period does not constitute wages, then none of the remuneration paid by such employer to such employee for such period shall be deemed to be wages.

Keep in mind here the "wages" they are referring to are the three "wages" on the W2 via section 6051.......3121(a) "wages", 3401(a) "wages" and medicare "wages".
All three "wages" are one in the same.
3401(a) "wages" is actually government employee "wages" and social security earnings (3121(a) "wages") of the private sector for the requirement (purpose) of withhold and deduction.


And I haven't even begun to post court cases supporting this.
I have a lot more to say on this subject...lots more.....I hope its not too much for you.

The courts say the federal income tax is an "excise".
Well heres a statute found in chapter 21 (social security) that indirectly says that 3121(b) "employment" (social security) is an excise.
This imposition is on the employer to pay half of your social security payments into the system.


26usc 3111
(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on every employer an excise tax, with respect to having individuals in his employ, equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) paid by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b))—

Ask yourself since when was it an "excise" activity (taxable activity) to hire someone to work for you?
The answer is it became an "excise" activity when the employee decided to participate in Social Security because 3121(a) "wages" are ONLY in respect to 3121(b) "employment".
What do I mean by this?
It means exactly what the statute (law) says it is.
You can only earn 3121(a) "wages" when you participate in Social Security.
(If you hired me to mow your lawn outside of participating in Social security the earnings are not...I repeat... are not 3121(a) "wages" and are not legally required to be "reported".)
The employer doesn't have a damn say in whether or not if the employee wishes to participate or not.....the employer is imposed because of the wishes of it employees to participate.
The courts have ruled that the government cannot force anyone into an Act of the government when the result is being imposed a tax.

[Ares]

Not too much information at all, absorbing it as I go along. The government likes to lay claims of excise on everything. I think that's how they believe they can lay taxes on everything the people do.

[7th trump]

Here's that info I couldn't find earlier to help solidify Social Security's role in being made liable for the federal income tax.


RM 00206.065 SSN Applications for Federal Income Tax Returns (IRS Requests)
A. Introduction
IRS generally uses the SSN as the taxpayer identification number (TIN). Each taxpayer and spouse is required to enter his/her own SSN on the return. SSNs are also required for dependents being claimed on the tax returns. However, for people who are not otherwise eligible for an SSN, IRS will assign an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN).
When processing tax returns, IRS matches the name shown on the tax return with the name shown on the IRS database for that particular SSN. SSA Numident data is sent to IRS each week in the format IRS requested. This information is then used to update the IRS database. When IRS finds a return on which an SSN has been omitted or cannot be verified, they notify the taxpayer to contact SSA to determine the correct number or to obtain an SSN.
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100206065

Heres another!



RM 00206.066 Inquiries Based on IRS Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) Backup Withholding Program
A. BACKGROUND
IRS regulations require payers of interest and dividends to provide IRS with the correct name and TIN of the payee. For individuals, the TIN is usually the SSN. IRS periodically provides payers with lists of TINs that do not match their records.
Since IRS records are created from SSA data, it may be necessary for the individual to contact SSA to correct or verify information contained on SSA records. In some cases, the individual will request that SSA provide third party verification to the interest payer.
Interest payers are required to withhold 31 percent of the interest or other reportable payments due when the individual does not provide a valid TIN. Those individuals who are notified for the first time that the name and TIN supplied by the payer to IRS does not match IRS data only need to notify the payer that they have taken corrective action. Those individuals notified of a discrepancy for the second time in a three year period must provide proof to the payer that they have a valid SSN through SSA third party verification before backup withholding can be discontinued.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100206066

By the way, the links are no good and I cant find this info on the SSA website any more....they could be there...I just didn't really try and search for them since I had this already down loaded on a thumbdrive.

[Ares]

By the way, the links are no good and I cant find this info on the SSA website any more....they could be there...I just didn't really try and search for them since I had this already down loaded on a thumbdrive.

Does the process require contacting the SSA to notify them that you are withdrawing from the system?

[7th trump]

ever looked at the fine print on the bottom of a W4?

Here it is.

Privacy Act and Paperwork Reduction Act Notice. We ask for the information on this form to carry out the Internal Revenue laws of the United States. Internal Revenue Code sections 3402(f)(2) and 6109 and their regulations require you to provide this information; your employer uses it to determine your federal income tax withholding. Failure to provide a properly completed form will result in your being treated as a single person who claims no withholding allowances; providing fraudulent information may subject you to penalties. Routine uses of this information include giving it to the Department of Justice for civil and criminal litigation; to cities, states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. commonwealths and possessions for use in administering their tax laws; and to the Department of Health and Human Services for use in the National Directory of New Hires. We may also disclose this information to other countries under a tax treaty, to federal and state agencies to enforce federal nontax criminal laws, or to federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies to combat terrorism.

Remember 301.6109-1(d)?
Remember what it said about the disclosure of your SSN on government forms?
It says the individual doesn't have to participate in Social Security he so "wishes" not to participate.

Guess what 3402(f)(2) is all about?


(2) Exemption certificates
(A) On commencement of employment
On or before the date of the commencement of employment with an employer, the employee shall furnish the employer with a signed withholding exemption certificate relating to the number of withholding exemptions which he claims, which shall in no event exceed the number to which he is entitled.
Guess what an exemption certificate is......its none other than a simple W4.
And it only applies upon commencement of "employment".
Guess where "employment" is define at and for what purpose?
Yep you guessed it....Social Security!

[7th trump]

Does the process require contacting the SSA to notify them that you are withdrawing from the system?

No, and there is no process.
The only thing you need to do is stop using the number all together.
You cannot get rid of the number.....but you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

The SSA doesn't care to begin with....all they care about is if you do decide to use it your earnings are crediting the john doe account that is yours.
All the IRS cares about is if you did decide to use it the SSA updates their records to calculate an imposition to collect.
The IRS is just a collection agency of the government. They don't and cant enforce Social Security laws.
The IRS cannot force you to participate in Social Security to collect the federal income tax.

[Ares]

No, and there is no process.
The only thing you need to do is stop using the number all together.
You cannot get rid of the number.....but you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

The SSA doesn't care to begin with....all they care about is if you do decide to use it your earnings are crediting the john doe account that is yours.
All the IRS cares about is if you did decide to use it the SSA updates their records to calculate an imposition to collect.
The IRS is just a collection agency of the government. They don't and cant enforce Social Security laws.
The IRS cannot force you to participate in Social Security to collect the federal income tax.

Now I know you don't confer with lawful money redemption, and I've had success with it so just hear me out. :) By following what has been laid out here, I think I can see why it works the way that it does.

SSA submits to IRS that I have earned "wages", which makes me responsible for Income Tax, Medicare, medicaid, social security, local state income taxes, etc. When I filed my IRS form with evidence that I had been redeeming lawful money, the IRS was forced to return the income tax. But the SSA still keeps the funds from my earnings because I "volunteered" into the system, but opted out of the "excise tax" (income tax) on federal reserve note use by utilizing 12 USC 411.

Now your method at least from what I'm gathering here removes both obligations while the method I'm currently using just removes the income tax obligation.

I've kept the instructions for creating a bank account without your SSN. How do you go about getting employed with out it? I know on my application I just completed it required it before I could even go further.

[7th trump]

Now I know you don't confer with lawful money redemption, and I've had success with it so just hear me out. :) By following what has been laid out here, I think I can see why it works the way that it does.

SSA submits to IRS that I have earned "wages", which makes me responsible for Income Tax, Medicare, medicaid, social security, local state income taxes, etc. When I filed my IRS form with evidence that I had been redeeming lawful money, the IRS was forced to return the income tax. But the SSA still keeps the funds from my earnings because I "volunteered" into the system, but opted out of the "excise tax" (income tax) on federal reserve note use by utilizing 12 USC 411.

Now your method at least from what I'm gathering here removes both obligations while the method I'm currently using just removes the income tax obligation.

I've kept the instructions for creating a bank account without your SSN. How do you go about getting employed with out it? I know on my application I just completed it required it before I could even go further.

Can I show you your errors of your ways with this 12usc 411?

[Ares]

Can I show you your errors of your ways with this 12usc 411?

I'm always open to suggestions

[7th trump]

I'm always open to suggestions

You said:

but opted out of the "excise tax" (income tax) on federal reserve note use by utilizing 12 USC 411
My question to you is what makes you beleive you opted out of the "excise tax".
Did you not read 26usc 3111?


26usc 3111
(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance
In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on every employer an excise tax, with respect to having individuals in his employ, equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 3121 (a)) paid by him with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121 (b))—

The law is saying the excise is earning 3121(a) "wages" that are in respect to 3121(b) "employment"........(participating in Social Security).
You mention the SSA kept your funds.
If they kept your funds then you didnt opt out of the excise (Social Security). I wouldnt go as far as beleiving the IRS cannot come back and ask for the refund back, plus interest, plus penalty, plus penalty interest.

All the IRS has to do is audit one of your future "lawful money" returns and see that you earned 3121(a) "wages"with the SSA.
Remember 3401(a) "wages" includes 3121(a) "wages" by definition.
So even if the IRS refunded your money you have not nullified the source of "wages".
Pete Hendrickson from losthorizons.com has had a huge success for a few year but whats now happening is those who did get total refunds from ten years ago are now receiving deficiency notices with letters of seizure in the tens of thousands for the initial tax/s plus penalty and interest starting from the date of refund.

[Ares]

Without going through the back and forth with that again. I believe it's the medium of exchange that is being taxed. My participation in the SSA system is the trigger / indication that I am using Federal Reserve Notes. Would the SSA notify the IRS if I were being paid in seashells, tally sticks, or volcanic rocks?

My thoughts are that the SSA is notifying the IRS that I am using federal reserve notes, and that my return better match what my employer says they paid me. With the redemption process I am notifying the IRS directly that I have utilized the redemption clause of the federal reserve charter as I would prefer United States Notes, but since none exist I am forced to accept Federal Reserve Notes so I am utilizing their statutes to redeem lawful money.

I can understand the hesitation I sat back for quite a while before taking any action in the lawful money redemption process. I also looked into Pete Hendrickson's method and it didn't make any sense to me so I never perused it. Also started seeing people getting harassed by the IRS shortly after they filed, usually within 2 to 3 years, also being charged with frivolous filing fee's. I have yet to see a single instance of that with redeeming lawful money. I've encountered individuals who have been redeeming since the mid to late 1990's without so much as a peep from the IRS. But they too still are paying for Social security, medicaid and medicare. So Redeeming isn't the ace in the hole, I see it as just another tool to show that I want no part of this system.

But anyways that's neither here nor there. I'm here to learn what I can, and an understanding of the SSA process is extremely beneficial.

[7th trump]

Without going through the back and forth with that again. I believe it's the medium of exchange that is being taxed. My participation in the SSA system is the trigger / indication that I am using Federal Reserve Notes. Would the SSA notify the IRS if I were being paid in seashells, tally sticks, or volcanic rocks?

My thoughts are that the SSA is notifying the IRS that I am using federal reserve notes, and that my return better match what my employer says they paid me. With the redemption process I am notifying the IRS directly that I have utilized the redemption clause of the federal reserve charter as I would prefer United States Notes, but since none exist I am forced to accept Federal Reserve Notes so I am utilizing their statutes to redeem lawful money.

I can understand the hesitation I sat back for quite a while before taking any action in the lawful money redemption process. I also looked into Pete Hendrickson's method and it didn't make any sense to me so I never perused it. Also started seeing people getting harassed by the IRS shortly after they filed, usually within 2 to 3 years, also being charged with frivolous filing fee's. I have yet to see a single instance of that with redeeming lawful money. I've encountered individuals who have been redeeming since the mid to late 1990's without so much as a peep from the IRS. But they too still are paying for Social security, medicaid and medicare. So Redeeming isn't the ace in the hole, I see it as just another tool to show that I want no part of this system.

But anyways that's neither here nor there. I'm here to learn what I can, and an understanding of the SSA process is extremely beneficial.

Yes, the SSA would notify the IRS if you were paid in seashells and tally sticks because 3121(a) "wages" means all renumeration for "employment". Doesnt matter what medium of exchange you were paid in...if you signed a W4 and paid in wheel barrels of dirt or seashells, the cash value of the dirt or seashells is reported to the SSA.
All the SSA cares about is "wages".
If you are paid in treasury notes or even fiat notes its still considered 3121(a) "wages".
You cannot participate in Social Security if you want your earnings, no matter what medium, to not be reported as 3121(a) "wages".

3121(a) Wages
For purposes of this chapter, the term “wages” means all remuneration for employment, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include—
I get paid in fiat reserve notes and since I dont have a W4 in play my earnings are not reported because they are not in respect to 3121(b) "employment".
I work for a living but I'm not 3121(b) "employed", therefore my earnings are not 3121(a) "wages".
The IRS leaves me alone because there is nothing being reported to the SSA as a statutory "wage" to update the IRS database.

[Ares]

Ok, so we got the definition of what the SSA considers wages. I take it employment is the other item we need to learn to understand how the SSA views "employee's"?

[7th trump]

Ok, so we got the definition of what the SSA considers wages. I take it employment is the other item we need to learn to understand how the SSA views "employee's"?

Well........when the law says 3121(a) "wages" are in respect to 3121(b) "employment" then yes you'd come out way ahead. Both you and the company you work for come out way ahead.

1. No tax impositions at the federal level.
2. No possible state tax impositions at the local or state level.
3. No Obammacare mandate.
4. Company doesn't pay the 11% (your half) of the SS taxes.
5. Company isn't imposed some federal taxes.
6. Company doesn't have overhead of filing government forms every week.

You keep 100% of your pay with no headache of filing taxes.
100% privacy on amounts earned for the year.
Its a win win for both the company and you.

[Ares]

Well........when the law says 3121(a) "wages" are in respect to 3121(b) "employment" then yes you'd come out way ahead. Both you and the company you work for come out way ahead.

1. No tax impositions at the federal level.
2. No possible state tax impositions at the local or state level.
3. No Obammacare mandate.
4. Company doesn't pay the 11% (your half) of the SS taxes.
5. Company isn't imposed some federal taxes.
6. Company doesn't have overhead of filing government forms every week.

You keep 100% of your pay with no headache of filing taxes.
100% privacy on amounts earned for the year.
Its a win win for both the company and you.

So what's the process to go about doing that? :) Trying to get my ducks in a row before being presented with the paperwork to sign.