Hey Tumbleweed

[osoab]

Did you get hit with the snow?

Hearing bad things about herds up your way.

Hope you didn't get buried.

[Ponce]

60,000 heads of cattle burried and dead under10 feet of snow..... is going to be a HARD winter.

V

[osoab]

Pulled from a farm board.


http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=207967
(image.jpg)



http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=207968

[Tumbleweed]

Did you get hit with the snow?

Hearing bad things about herds up your way.

Hope you didn't get buried.

This was an early winter storm that caught most everyone by surprise because of it's severity. It rained here over 3 inches on friday then turned to snow towards evening. The wind picked up from 40 to 50 mph with gusts to 70 mph. Over night there was an accumulation of wet heavy snow 2 to 3 feet deep. All the cattle are out on open ranges grazing this time of year. They started drifting with the wind and as the snow built up they drifted over fences and traveled for miles. Some were entangled in fences and died there. This was a wet heavy snow and the exertion caused them to draw the snow into there lungs and it drowned or suffocated them. The power went off friday evening when it started snowing and the wind picked up. It came on at my place again tuesday evening.

My cattle drifted too and mixed with others. Some of them drifted 6 or 7 miles I think. They had crossed a state hi way and some were dead there in the ditch but I don't know for sure how many. Some friends found some of my cattle and theirs buried there together. They dug out three of mine that were alive and one of theirs that were under 10 or 12 feet of snow. there were more dead cattle underneath them. All but one of mine they dug out died anyway. I don't know what my loss is going to be but I'm thinking it may be in the 5 to 10 percent range. Some people believe their losses are going to be as high as 70%.

People started using snomobiles to search for cattle after the storm as the roads were all blocked with drifts. The wind swept some areas almost bare and left huge drifts in other places. As it's thawed we've been using a combination of atv's and horses to gather, sort and move cattle towards their home pastures. I was horse back all day today.

I've heard that some friends west of me had their cattle together on one ranch found 700 head of cattle dead along a ten mile stretch of fence. People are starting to see cattle floating down the creeks as the snow melts and the runoff is carrying them away. There is a creek running through my ranch that has cattle floating down it. The cattle are mixed and scattered so everyone is out working continuing to find, gather and sort their cattle then try to get them home again.

People are feeling a lot of grief over the loss of their cattle.

[Horn]

Tragic, early October it never hits like that?

[Tumbleweed]

Tragic, early October it never hits like that?

I recall one other storm on the 7th of October but there wasn't this much snow in a 12 hour period and I don't think the winds were quite this strong. I believe this one started snowing on the evening of the 4th of october. It's unusual to get this severe of a storm this early. Near the end of October is when people start gathering their cattle and moving them to sheltered areas for the winter. The snowfall isn't usually this wet and heavy with the strong winds. This area is like a sea of grasslands that is sparsley populated with people but there are a lot of cattle, horses and sheep that graze these grasslands. I've seen dead antelope and deer that died in the storm too.

[Tumbleweed]

Pulled from a farm board.


http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=207967
(image.jpg)



http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=207968

osoab do you have a link for those photos? they might have been taken in an area to the west of me where I know people who have had heavy losses.

[EE_]

What a disaster.

Shutdown worsens historic blizzard that killed tens of thousands of South Dakota cattle
KNBN-TV

Rapid City and many other parts of South Dakota recorded record snowfall totals for the entire month of October in just three days over the weekend.
By M. Alex Johnson, Staff Writer, NBC News

An unusually early and enormous snowstorm over the weekend caught South Dakota ranchers and farmers unprepared, killing tens of thousands of cattle and ravaging the state's $7 billion industry — an industry left without assistance because of the federal government shutdown.

As many as 75,000 cattle have perished since the storm slammed the western part of the state Thursday through Saturday with snowfall that set records for the entire month of October in just three days, state and industry officials said.

Across the state, snow totals averaged 30 inches, with some isolated areas recording almost 5 feet, The Weather Channel reported.


South Dakota Stock Growers Association estimated that 15 percent to 20 percent of all cattle were killed in some parts of the state. Some ranchers reported that they lost half or more of their herds.

The storm was accompanied by hurricane-force wind gusts, especially Friday night, which drove some herds seeking shelter miles from their ranches. A trail of carcasses left a gruesome sight, said Martha Wierzbicki, emergency management director for Butte County, in the northwestern corner of the state.

Parts of South Dakota are in cleanup mode after a strong winter storm pounded some areas. Kirsten Swanson of NBC station KNBN reports.
"They're in the fence line, laying alongside the roads," Wierzbicki told The Rapid City Journal. "It's really sickening."

Ranchers have no one to ask for help or reimbursement. That's because Congress has yet to pass a new farm bill, which subsidizes agricultural producers.

And even if there were a farm bill, the government shutdown means nothing could be done under one anyway.

State Agriculture Secretary Lucas Lentsch called the early-season blizzard "devastating to our producers," saying his agency was trying to figure out a response.


In the meantime, he said, the best farmers and ranchers can do is meticulously document their losses, with detailed photos, for use when and if claims can be processed.

The most immediate concern is proper disposal of the dead livestock, which state law says must be burned, buried or rendered within 36 hours — for the health not only of surviving herds but also for people.

"That can be a significant source of disease spread, so we want to make sure those carcasses are burned, buried or rendered as quickly as possible," Dustin Oedekoven, South Dakota's state veterinarian, told the Journal.

But the South Dakota Cattlemen's Association warned that the effects would be felt for years afterward. Not only were tens of thousands of calves killed, but so were thousands more cows that would have delivered calves next year.

And the stress of the storm will leave its mark on surviving herds, the South Dakota State University Agricultural Extension Service said, leaving the remaining cattle vulnerable to ruinous diseases with names like infectious bovine rhinotracheitis, bovine respiratory syncytial virus and bovine viral diarrhea virus.

Most of the diseases have incubation periods of a week or two, so those problems can't yet be assessed, the extension said.

"This is absolutely, totally devastating," Steve Schell, a rancher in Caputa, near Mount Rushmore, told the Rapid City newspaper. "This is horrendous. I mean the death loss of these cows in this county is unbelievable."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20876196-shutdown-worsens-historic-blizzard-that-killed-tens-of-thousands-of-south-dakota-cattle?lite

[osoab]

osoab do you have a link for those photos? they might have been taken in an area to the west of me where I know people who have had heavy losses.


http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=422110&mid=3371521#M3371521

[osoab]

Another pic from the same board, different thread.

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=422133&posts=57&start=1

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=208034
(image.jpg)

Hope your losses are minimal Tubleweed.

[Tumbleweed]

This is link to more of the photos that were with a group posted earlier in this thread. I live in the area where some of these photos were taken.

I don't like the comments in the news stories about the ranchers being hampered by the government shut down. I think most ranchers are damn glad the government is shut down so they aren't causing us so much trouble.

http://bigballsincowtown.com/storm2013.htm


http://bigballsincowtown.com/storm2013.htm

[MNeagle]

Am so sorry to hear of your losses & heartbreak TW. You are a brave man, & my prayers are w/ you and your ranching.

[Tumbleweed]

I think I may know the people who lost the cattle in the worst photos above. I haven't called them yet. It's devistating to lose a lot of cattle and have to face the possibility of losing a way of life that people have grown to love.

This is a video that seems pretty fair to me about the storm and losses. I know one of the fellows who is in the interview and we live in the same county.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXePxCNknJs&feature=youtu.be

[Neuro]

Very bad, what a horrendous death and suffering for the cattle, apart for the losses for the ranchers. I hope your losses are minimal Tumbelweed!

Manmade global warming responsible?

[osoab]

Hey Tumbleweed, what is the plan for the carcasses? How much snow you got left on the ground?

[willie pete]

Hey Tumbleweed, what is the plan for the carcasses?

Probably pile 'em up, throw diesel on 'em and torch'em

[osoab]

Probably pile 'em up, throw diesel on 'em and torch'em

I wouldn't want to live East of that.

[Neuro]

Probably pile 'em up, throw diesel on 'em and torch'em
Maybe grill'em on railroad rails?

[Tumbleweed]

Hey Tumbleweed, what is the plan for the carcasses? How much snow you got left on the ground?

I've been kept busy looking for, gathering, sorting and moving cattle home. I have a better count on my cattle now and I have three dead and 22 head that I can't find. I'm thinking they are dead and still under the snow drifts. Because of the temperatures in the 50's and 60's we are rid of most of the snow but there are still deep drifts in the low areas and on the hill sides facing away from the wind.

There are rendering trucks in the area that are picking up cattle and hauling them away. I don't know if they are charging ranchers to haul them away or not. I think there are rules because of agenda 21 that you have to burn or bury carcasses within twenty four hours or suffer a fine. This is what the state vet is promoting but I think he's a brain washed young guy that's unknowingly helping to bring in the NWO. Nature has always taken care of the dead in a pretty efficient way in the past. The state vet says it's to stop the spread of disease but these cattle didn't die from disease. In this area when something dies the predators and scavengers tend to eat them pretty quickly. In warmer weather the worms do there job too and the carcasses melt into the ground and fertilize it. Oder is no problem in the area where I live because it is so sparsley populated and all the people living here are cattle people. I may do a combination of burning and burying. I have plenty of dead trees and brush piled up and my nephew has a backhoe.

The cattle I've lost were bred angus heifers that would be calving in april and may of 2014. The fellow who owns the largest livestock auction in the state has said they would probably be selling for 1800 to $2200 later this year or next spring before they calve. It's a severe loss for me but I'll still be able to continue at least for a while longer. I feel fortunate that I only lost that many. I have a friend I trade help with that lost over a hundred head of cows and 50 calves. Their are others with larger losses that that.

The grass was green here and still growing and the leaves were still on the trees. The storm did a lot of damage to the trees breaking the tops off or stripping the branches off. I've got a big mess to clean up. I still have six head of cattle at a neighbors but they are too hard to get out of his herd yet because of the snow and terrain. When he moves them to a different pasture where they are more accessible I'll gather them and bring them home.

[Horn]

One those videos stated that it was 36 hours to render.

Think if they were packed on ice you'd have longer, but who's gonna be the judge there?

[MNeagle]

October 2013 Winter Storm Classified As Category Five As Martin Winter Storm Intensity Scale Returns

November 4, 2013 (http://www.theweatherspace.com/2013/11/)| Posted by Senior Meteorologist (http://www.theweatherspace.com/author/admin/) | 0 comments (http://www.theweatherspace.com/2013/11/04/october-2013-winter-storm-classified-as-category-five-as-martin-winter-storm-intensity-scale-returns-2/#comments)|

http://www.theweatherspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/110413b-1000x666.jpg

A category system for Winter Storms was developed here at TheWeatherSpace.com in 2012. This system was used that year and it will return again this season. The October 2013 South Dakota Blizzard has been classified as a Category Five on the system that goes from one through five.

The “Martin Winter Storm Category Scale” takes in wind + snow amounts and gives the category for the storms. Each storm that meets the criteria this year will be assigned a category number to let the public know what type of system is coming. The system goes from one through five. So far this season we have had one Category Five. That is the “South Dakota Blizzard of October 2013.” The blizzard dropped nearly 60 inches of snow and killed over 75,000 cattle in Western South Dakota.
The storm was predicted well in advance (http://www.theweatherspace.com/2013/10/03/blizzard-warning-issued-by-theweatherspace-com-for-wyoming-parts-of-the-dakotas-and-western-nebraska/), however since the cattle were not in their winter coats, and still in feeding pastures, they stood no chance at survival.

http://www.theweatherspace.com/2013/11/04/october-2013-winter-storm-classified-as-category-five-as-martin-winter-storm-intensity-scale-returns-2/

[MAGNES]

People are feeling a lot of grief over the loss of their cattle.

TUMBLEWEED, my man, I totally missed this thread and your post,

pretty incredible damage, I have never seen anything like this,

sorry for your losses,

God Bless.

Jim

[monty]

South Dakota Ranchers and Framers Hit With Rising Property Taxes


South Dakota ranchers, farmers hit with rising property taxes based on soil type (http://freerangereport.com/index.php/2017/02/27/south-dakota-ranchers-farmers-hit-with-rising-property-taxes-based-on-soil-type/)

February 27, 2017 (http://freerangereport.com/index.php/2017/02/27/south-dakota-ranchers-farmers-hit-with-rising-property-taxes-based-on-soil-type/) editor (http://freerangereport.com/index.php/author/editor/) Leave a comment (http://freerangereport.com/index.php/2017/02/27/south-dakota-ranchers-farmers-hit-with-rising-property-taxes-based-on-soil-type/#respond)

Martin said that if all tax money stayed within the county, the system might not be so bad. But since the state gets some of the county’s tax money, and the state is shuffling money into different pots, the system seems inequitable for Fall River County ag producers.With ranchers paying corn ground rates on land being used as grassland, this can become an issue, Martin said.
John D. Taylor Hot Springs Star

Rapid City Journal (http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/agricultural-tax-issues-could-cause-problems-in-fall-river-county/article_d070b5b8-6747-5ff6-b70a-16f85e05cd86.html)

Agricultural tax issues could cause problems in Fall River County

HOT SPRINGS | Two tax issues are coming to a head across Fall River County. Thanks to state mandates, agricultural producers — especially ranchers — are continuing to get hit with rising property valuations based on soil-type analysis. Also, some subtle shifts in who pays what in terms of overall county taxes are taking place, according to a recent report.

Ranch impact

Fall River County geographic information systems coordinator and public information officer Stacey Martin has a map of what ought to be crop land across Fall River County, based on the type of soils that are involved. Green on this map designates land that should be cropped — and there’s a lot of green on Martin’s map, especially around the Oral irrigation district, and all around Oeleichs.

The trouble is, this map doesn’t represent actual land use, only soil types and what land should be cropped — not what is cropped — according to soil types. The actual use of much of the land shaded in green on this map is cattle pasture, range lands and beef production.

Another issue: According to the state Department of Revenue, this map indicates how agricultural ground should be valued and, hence, taxed.
Crop ground, according to the state’s way of thinking, has a higher value than grasslands because of its productivity potential. Stick a bunch of corn, wheat, sunflowers, soybeans or other crops in those green spots, and you’re likely to earn more than you can by raising cattle or sheep there.

As a result, when county director of equalization Susie Simkins is charged with making sure that people’s property valuations are accurate, she is obligated by the state to value those green spots on the map at higher values than the white splotches on Martin’s map.

The reason these lands are not cropped, Simkins says, can vary: lack of access for farming machinery, an isolated location, or simply a landowner choosing to raise cattle because sticking sunflowers into the 50-acre green patch in the middle of his cow pasture just doesn’t make sense.

Simkins can adjust valuations down somewhat for some green, should-be-cropped areas. But since 2010, when the state law requiring her to value agricultural lands on the basis of crop or grass went into effect, the state has been strongly pushing her to get land values up to 100 percent based on soil types, not land use.
How this creates problems for Fall River County agricultural producers, according to both Martin and Simkins, goes something like this:
Say Rancher Jones has a section of ground where he runs red Angus beef cattle and half this ground is potential soil-based crop ground.
https://i2.wp.com/freerangereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/fallrivermap.jpg?resize=860%2C557
His neighbor, Rancher Smith, also runs red Angus on the section adjacent to Jones’ cow pasture.

Jones’ property valuation — and his taxes — are going to be significantly higher than Smith’s because Smith’s land is valued at grass rates, whereas half of Jones’ land is valued at cropland rates.

Also, Simkins said, the spread between the values of grass vs. crop soils is growing.

However, while soil type land valuations work well in the East River region, where 70 percent of the state’s population lives, they don’t work nearly as well in West River.

Soil type valuations can even be counterintuitive in the Black Hills.

Martin pointed to valuations in the Black Hills where sales figures as well as soil types come into play when assessors are valuing lands. Since the Black Hills region is a popular place to live, property here can, and usually does, have very poor soils, yet it is still valued higher than prairie land with crop soils, because of the way property sales figures affect valuations. Meanwhile, a nearly equivalent parcel of Black Hills land with crop-able soils might actually have lower valuations if it is in a location with fewer sales.

Martin said virtually all of the West River counties are experiencing some pain based on soil-type land valuations vs. actual use valuations.

“Actual use is a naughty word,” said Simkins, when it comes to getting the state to change the system. She and County Commissioner Joe Falkenburg testified in 2015 to try to get legislators to modify the valuation system to be fairer to West River residents. But lobbyists keep pushing for ranchers to continue to pay “corn ground” rates.

Martin said that if all tax money stayed within the county, the system might not be so bad. But since the state gets some of the county’s tax money, and the state is shuffling money into different pots, the system seems inequitable for Fall River County ag producers.

With ranchers paying corn ground rates on land being used as grassland, this can become an issue, Martin said.

At a recent county commission meeting, Falkenburg worried that when the soil-type valuation effort finally “sunsets” and 100 percent of valuations are going to be required by the state, ranchers are going to take a big hit, creating another crisis for the county.

Theoretically, if ag lands increase in value, the tax mill levy should decrease some, Falkenburg noted.

“It’s not going to be pretty,” Simkins said.

Tax Shifts

Martin has some other charts that show some interesting things, one of them being a subtle shift in who — agriculture, residential, commercial, etc. — pays what percentage of taxes in the county.

The common assumption among most in Fall River County is that agriculture pays the bulk of the taxes. Yet Martin’s charts, even going back to 2010, don’t bear this out.

In 2010, the value of taxable land across the county accounted for nearly $414 million. Of this, agricultural lands, ag dwelling lands and commercial agricultural property accounted for nearly $104 million, or roughly a quarter, of the overall value of county lands. Residential property was $210 million, almost 51 percent. Commercial property was nearly $48 million, or nearly 12 percent, and utility property was $51 million, also 12 percent.

By 2017, the value of taxable land across the county tallied $556 million. Again, agricultural lands and ag dwellings amounted to 29 percent of the value, ($162 million in value), and residential property was 49 percent (nearly $273 million). Commercial property was nearly 9 percent ($48 million), and utility lands represented 13 percent ($72 million).

Taxes levied during this same time frame show similar shifts.

Another shift plotted by Martin is where county ag lands hold the most value. She created a map to show ag land value shifts from 2014 to 2017, following reassessment. Roughly speaking, ag lands in the eastern portion of the county have risen in value, and while western ag lands have decreased in value.

Each year, Martin also likes to find properties spread across the county that are very similar in size, land mass and use, but taxed at different rates and compare non-ag taxes with ag taxes.

On the three parcels she shared, the ag taxes, which are historically low, and the non-ag taxes, which are among the highest tax rates paid, were astonishing.
One Black Hills comparison of two 40-acre parcels showed two nearly adjacent properties, one ag, one non-ag where non-ag taxes were 16 times the ag tax. A Provo-area comparison showed non-ag taxes being seven times the rate of the ag taxes. And an Edgemont and Hot Springs comparison show two 40-acre parcels where the non-ag taxes were 14 times the rate of the ag taxes.

Martin said she couldn’t speculate on the meaning of these disparities, but said people paying the non-ag taxes were getting the “fuzzy end of the lollipop.”


https://i0.wp.com/freerangereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/redangus.jpg?resize=860%2C648Agweek photo

Free Range Report

[woodman]

"South Dakota Ranchers and Framers Hit With Rising Property Taxes"

This is a damn shame. They are going with an assessing principle known as "Highest and best use." which means they will value it at the very highest it could be if it was used for the purpose that would derive the most value. It is a fail either way because it is far too simplistic and makes undue assumptions about a property. Pure greed. In Michigan, property taxes, especially agricultural are capped and can only rise the rate of inflation or 5% per year, whichever is lowest, no matter what the valuation is set to. Hopefully they have a taxable value cap in South Dakota.

[Tumbleweed]

My taxes doubled two years ago because of higher valuations even though ranchers in my area organized meetings and protested the increase. Two years ago we had good calf prices but last fall they had dropped to less than half of what they were two years ago. The taxes and expenses only seem to increase.

South Dakota is pretty much divided east to west with the Missouri River as the dividing line. East river has better soil and tends to get more rain. It's better suited to raising grain. Most of the people in the state live east river and farm.

When you cross the river heading west there's a change that's pretty noticeable. The land west of the river is dryer and sparsely populated. The topsoil is thin and better suited to grass and grazing. When it's farmed it is more susceptible to erosion so it's best to keep it as native grasslands. That's the best use of it.

For quite a few years corn farmers east river were making money hand over fist raising corn and they came west river and bid up the price of grazing land. Some of them sprayed the grass with Roundup then no till planted gmo corn or wheat. Because of these dumb SOB's planting corn and wheat in areas that should've stayed as grasslands ranchers are going to have to pay higher taxes.

There have also been investors buying land for recreation that have income from sources other than ranching. They don't want to pay the higher taxes because they bid the price up to take it out of ranchers hands who actually are trying to make a living from it.

For me ranching has at best been a break even way of making a living. We're out numbered and out voted on a lot of things that would help us to survive raising cattle to feed this country. Money is power and ranchers seem to always be short on that to change things for the better.

[woodman]

My taxes doubled two years ago because of higher valuations even thought ranchers in my area organized meetings and protested the increase. Two years ago we had good calf prices but last fall they had dropped to less than half of what the were two years ago. The taxes and expenses only seem to increase.

South Dakota is pretty much divided east to west with the Missouri River as the dividing line. East river has better soil and tends to get more rain. It's better suited to raising grain. Most of the people in the state live east river and farm.

When you cross the river heading west there's a change that's pretty noticeable. The land west of the river is dryer and sparsely populated. The topsoil is thin and better suited to grass and grazing. When it's farmed it is more susceptible to erosion so it's best to keep it as native grasslands. That's the best use of it.

For quite a few years corn farmers east river were making money hand over fist raising corn and they came west river and bid up the price of grazing land. Some of them sprayed the grass with Roundup then no till planted gmo corn or wheat. Because of these dumb SOB's planting corn and wheat in areas that should've stayed as grasslands ranchers are going to have to pay higher taxes.

There have also been investors buying land for recreation that have income from sources other than ranching. They don't want to pay the higher taxes because they bid the price up to take it out of ranchers hands who actually are trying to make a living from it.

For me ranching has at best been a break even way of making a living. We're out numbered and out voted on a lot of things that would help us to survive raising cattle to feed this country. Money is power and ranchers seem to always be short on that to change things for the better.

I wonder if you could increase your income by providing grass fed beef to city slickers. I imagine the cattle you have on range are considered to be organic, grass fed. Around here the cheapest you can get grass fed burgher is $5 a pound. I know some guys would even like to shoot and process the beef themselves. Do any ranchers your way do this type of thing?

[monty]

For me ranching has at best been a break even way of making a living. We're out numbered and out voted on a lot of things that would help us to survive raising cattle to feed this country. Money is power and ranchers seem to always be short on that to change things for the better.

Most people have the idea ranchers are rich. The condition of the fence in this photo of LaVoy Finicum accurately reflects the financial condition of most ranchers. My family barely managed to make ends meet. Bad weather and weak market prices take their toll.

This fence is quite typical af many in Nevada and Arizona.

https://scontent.fbog2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16998715_10154961919928847_6527612418812946095_n.j pg?oh=074373cdacc32d5cd81b0053ede6b780&oe=59292891

[Tumbleweed]

I wonder if you could increase your income by providing grass fed beef to city slickers. I imagine the cattle you have on range are considered to be organic, grass fed. Around here the cheapest you can get grass fed burgher is $5 a pound. I know some guys would even like to shoot and process the beef themselves. Do any ranchers your way do this type of thing?

I just put a grass fed 5 year old cow in the freezer. The meat is tender and has a good flavor. Their are some who do sell a few cattle to people who want locally grown and fed beef but those who fatten and sell them feed them gmo grain. The cow I put in the freezer was fattened on grass and grass alfalfa hay.

I'm best able to operate by keeping the cow herd and selling the calves and that's the most feasible economically year in and out. That way I avoid getting in to the extra work and expense of growing and feeding the extra hay it would take to fatten and sell organic beef.

I think it's possible for some ranchers who live near large cities to take advantage of the organic markets but this area is sparsely populated and the market for organic is pretty easily filled by what's already out there locally.

[Tumbleweed]

Most people have the idea ranchers are rich. The condition of the fence in this photo of LaVoy Finicum accurately reflects the financial condition of most ranchers. My family barely managed to make ends meet. Bad weather and weak market prices take their toll.

This fence is quite typical af many in Nevada and Arizona.


That's damn sure the truth and that's the way it's always been here too.

[ximmy]

That's damn sure the truth and that's the way it's always been here too.

Every time Tumbleweed writes something I hear Rooster Cogburn's voice.


"You ain't no bigger than a corn nugget"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK4FZ3ks17M

[osoab]

Every time Tumbleweed writes something I hear Rooster Cogburn's voice.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK4FZ3ks17M

There is only one Rooster J. Cogburn.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qclLGZcSuc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qclLGZcSuc

[woodman]

There is only one Rooster J. Cogburn.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qclLGZcSuc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qclLGZcSuc

Both of those are very fine movies. I actually liked the old one better, I think it is in the narrative, but the newer version is damn fine too.

[Tumbleweed]

Every time Tumbleweed writes something I hear Rooster Cogburn's voice.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK4FZ3ks17M

I think I kind of resemble him a little too ximmy. I'm gettin kind of old and I don't wear a patch but I don't see good out of that same eye either that he's got a patch on. I like riding horses, drinkin whiskey and shootin guns too.

[EE_]

Both of those are very fine movies. I actually liked the old one better, I think it is in the narrative, but the newer version is damn fine too.

No comparison, The Duke wins by a landslide!

[ximmy]

No comparison, The Duke wins by a landslide!

The Duke wins but the Dude abides... I don't know about you, but I take comfort in that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYsw0KVRjCM

[Tumbleweed]

I never really did care for John Wayne. He always struck me as being counterfeit and a bully. I have a friend that spent quite a bit of time around him years ago and he confirmed my thoughts about him.

I liked the True Grit movie with Jeff Bridges a lot better than the other one.

[Hitch]

I think it's possible for some ranchers who live near large cities to take advantage of the organic markets but this area is sparsely populated and the market for organic is pretty easily filled by what's already out there locally.

Out here in CA, frozen grass fed meat is usually vacuum sealed, then frozen. Hamburger is $8 a pound that way, and a rib eye steak $15 a pound. Folks are big on grass fed organic beef here in CA. That might be one way to get your grass fed beef out there, vacuum seal it and deep freeze it immediately afterwards. You could have it shipped anywhere.

[monty]

I never really did care for John Wayne. He always struck me as being counterfeit and a bully. I have a friend that spent quite a bit of time around him years ago and he confirmed my thoughts about him.

I liked the True Grit movie with Jeff Bridges a lot better than the other one.


No comparison, The Duke wins by a landslide!


Sorry EE_, I have to agree with Tumbleweed, John Wayne always came off as a big blowhard bully to me.

[Neuro]

Out here in CA, frozen grass fed meat is usually vacuum sealed, then frozen. Hamburger is $8 a pound that way, and a rib eye steak $15 a pound. Folks are big on grass fed organic beef here in CA. That might be one way to get your grass fed beef out there, vacuum seal it and deep freeze it immediately afterwards. You could have it shipped anywhere.

You should make an internet platform for that trade actually. Or someone should. Have like a 5-10 pound order minimum, ship it deep frozen in an insulating box.

[Tumbleweed]

^ It's easy enough to sell the most desirable cuts of meat for a good price but you have to be able to sell the whole carcass in a timely manner. That's the hard part and the quality of the meat goes down hill if it's sitting frozen to long. If you can't get it all sold you will lose whatever profit you were hoping to make.

There's a meat company in Nebraska that does the very thing you're suggesting. I had them deliver a package of frozen steaks to a lady friends door and she said they were very good.

A friend and his wife own a house and a few acres of land next to mine and they want a grass fed beef. I've told them if I had a cow that didn't breed this summer I'd sell them one of those that they can have slaughtered. They will buy the cow and a small local meat processor will butcher and package it for them. I'll see how that works out.

Omaha Meats does sell and deliver anywhere in the US. http://www.omahasteaks.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?AID=2170&Dsp=265&ITMSUF=EMX&SRC=AC2759&gclid=CN-szfO8utICFZC1wAodXsYOaw

[Dachsie]

Yes, I saw when reading through this thread today that the soil variable was an application of the "highest and best use" principle employed in property valuation. Here in Texas that principle is causing a similar kind of problem but this time involving how big box store commercial properties are valued. This is called the "Dark Store Theory" of property taxation is a hot issue during the present biennial Texas legislative session. If the big boxers win it will represent a major change from the "highest and best use" principle and another huge win for the special-interest bankster lobbyists.

What is odd is that in Texas the appraisers for the counties DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO SALES PRICES of properties so they do not have that crucial data to come up with "fair market value." It is all theoretical assumptions and models, not real-world actual value and actual use.

The economy is tanking and governmental entities are scrambling for every revenue source, including tax revenue, they can get their hands on. At this point it is more about survival than greed, per se. However, cities and counties have very corrupt administrators and "elected officials" who are becoming very personally rich very quickly because of their using the government for personal graft and under the table kickbacks and a myriad of money-laundering schemes.

It all traces back to Agenda 21 garbage and that traces back to the Obamanables and like-minded one world death and slavery system for all bankster Bolsheviks. The banksters use the personally greedy bureaucrats to carry out their plans to rape and pillage all of the USA. They have been working to destroy the sovereignty and the rule of law for our once great nation for many decades.

Here is a link to the story about the Texas property tax games on the chopping block.

https://www.comptroller.texas.gov/economy/fiscal-notes/2017/february/dark-store.php#article

comptroller.texas.gov
“Dark Store Theory” and Property Taxation
Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts
Even in a state as vibrant as Texas, we’ve all seen shuttered stores and failed shopping centers. It’s an inevitable byproduct of the daily tug-of-war of economic competition.
SNIP

[Dachsie]

Will do a short reply on this matter only and a longer general reply to this very interesting and helpful thread later.

I know this is probably an ignorant question but it seems that if you went and picked up some of the frozen carcases while they were still frozen that you could take them home and butcher them and the meat would be good to eat, though you would probably have to immediately cook it all and then freeze the frozen cooked meat, not try to refreeze raw butchered meat.

[Dachsie]

Oh, I am a Duke-o-phile from way back. I have heard some say he was a very personable and kind and caring person in real life, but also a tough, no-nonsense person too. I participate in the DukeWayne.com forums as DachsieLady (get it?). Lots of fun there. But I mainly like the very old Wayne westerns from the 30s and 40s and I have seen them all so many times but since my short-term memory is fading fast, I can watch them over and over again and not remember them even though I just watched the movie a few days ago. I guess this is my therapy and a form of escapism. Not too much violence and nice simple clear right and wrong American values of the old days. The plots are always the same formula and the Duke always gets the girl in the end. (A couple of disappointing real-life facts about John Wayne is that he really did not ride horses well and did not like horses and he did not live a personally moral life.)

[Dachsie]

Here is my general reply to this great thread. Thanks again Osoab and Tumbleweed for ejumacachin us city folk.

I now know the real meaning of "Drift Fence" that was not really demonstrated in that old Zane Grey movie / novel of the same title.

I follow several homesteader YouTube channels and I notice that several of them, the ones located in Idaho, also report bitter extra hard cold winter this year.

Fouchomatic - they named one of their videos Snowpocalypse

Red Poppy Ranch

Willow Creek Homestead

Seems everywhere around USA and even the world are reporting very odd anomalous weather this year. We never have much of a winter here in central Texas, but it has been odd so far. Only two nights of light overnight frost in December and many days in the eighties in February. Still wondering if we are going to get slapped with a late frost in March but for all the world it looks like spring has sprung here.

As far as cattle ranching, I really do not see much evidence of that in Texas anymore though I know I do not live in cattle country area. Just seems Texas really does not much do the cattle business anymore where once cattle was king.

I commented on maybe you could save some of that dead frozen carcass meat but I was meaning for your own personal use and not to make it for sale, or maybe as chicken feed or other homestead uses but I guess you do not have a garden and do not at all do the farming thing.

I personally cannot understand why people live in those very cold areas of the US. It just seems too hard to live there and raise a family there and now to just make a living and survive there. The kind of deep snow some of those homesteader channels showed looked like dramatically dangerous life and death situations for homesteaders many of whom are all or partially off grid and who have tight budgets and young children. Just does not look "sustainable" by my definition of that ruined word.

[EE_]

The Duke wins but the Dude abides... I don't know about you, but I take comfort in that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYsw0KVRjCM

That's different, there is only one Dude!

[Tumbleweed]

Will do a short reply on this matter only and a longer general reply to this very interesting and helpful thread later.

I know this is probably an ignorant question but it seems that if you went and picked up some of the frozen carcases while they were still frozen that you could take them home and butcher them and the meat would be good to eat, though you would probably have to immediately cook it all and then freeze the frozen cooked meat, not try to refreeze raw butchered meat.

There's a thread somewhere here started by gun driller when he butchered a prolapsed dead cow. I looked but couldn't find it. When an animal is stressed that way and isn't bled out the meat in my experience really isn't edible. Dead animals are best used rendering them down and making dog or cat food out of it.

[Dachsie]

Assume you are saying it is not really "edible" because it just does not taste right, not that you know for sure that it is contaminated or a health hazard for human to eat. I just thought that it being frozen during it stress time you could bleed it out when you thaw it out and butcher it. I guess I'm thinking that when the reason the animal dies is because of freezing temps, that cannot be compared with an animal that dies for some reason during non-freezing time.

No need to reply. You are running a big cattle operation and that is another ball game from my thinking it terms of thrifty little homesteading.

I guess you can make more money by just selling the carcass to the rendering place than trying to do something with the animal for use on your homestead.

Thanks again. All very interesting.

[Tumbleweed]

^ Yes I'm saying it is not edible because of how it tastes. There's a sale barn and little town about 40 miles from where I live. There's reservations nearby too. When an animal would die at the sale barn it would be taken to the dump. The indians that would hang around town panhandling would go down to the dump and cut meat off the dead animals to eat. They are a hell of a lot tougher than white people in a lot of ways.

A lot of people have tried to salvage the meat of cattle that have been injured and died or had to be put down. It tends to have a skunky flavor probably from the adrenalin that was dumped in to their system when they were injured. Most people end up throwing most of the meat away.

There's really no money to be made selling dead cattle to a renderer but every dollar you take in helps with the losses. Some of the cattle that were lost in that storm spoken of in the beginning of this thread went to renderers but most were buried in huge pits dug with large track hoes.

[Dachsie]

Don't want to get off topic too much but the way meat and milk tastes coming straight from the wild or the homestead farm is important. It kind of takes a big fund of knowledge and experience with all of that to really know about good taste product. My cousin had a farm in northeast Texas and he would catch very large wild hogs and sell them. He would catch the hog live in a big pit trap and then keep it fed on corn for a few days to get the gamey taste out of the meat and then would kill it.

[Tumbleweed]

I personally cannot understand why people live in those very cold areas of the US. It just seems too hard to live there and raise a family there and now to just make a living and survive there. The kind of deep snow some of those homesteader channels showed looked like dramatically dangerous life and death situations for homesteaders many of whom are all or partially off grid and who have tight budgets and young children. Just does not look "sustainable" by my definition of that ruined word.

The people that live in this region like living here and may complain a little about the weather but they love this region. Those who leave always seem to want to come back. We had a blizzard Christmas day that blocked the roads and broke thousands of power poles that took out the power for five days here. We opened roads, fed cattle and continued on. The power is supplied by a co-op owned by the users and our rates have been raised to pay the damages. We've had a lot of these kind of storms the last few years and most people are prepared to deal with the problems.

The ancestry of the people who live in this region are mostly English, Irish, German, Norwegian, Swedish and Lakota Sioux. I'll post a couple of videos taken not to far from where I live below.



This is what people like to do in the spring when the
cold and snow are out of the way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK2wLnl-puU




This is what they like to do when they get
together or have some kind of celebration
when the work is done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vixl_1jdbh4




I've been out alone horse back in quite a few blizzards checking on cattle
or trying to get them to shelter and it is dangerous.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fyFumisiU

[monty]

Don't want to get off topic too much but the way meat and milk tastes coming straight from the wild or the homestead farm is important. It kind of takes a big fund of knowledge and experience with all of that to really know about good taste product. My cousin had a farm in northeast Texas and he would catch very large wild hogs and sell them. He would catch the hog live in a big pit trap and then keep it fed on corn for a few days to get the gamey taste out of the meat and then would kill it.

Having eaten at several differnt ranches in my younger days I noticed each ranch's meat and milk had its unique flavor. Non of these animals were fed commercial feeds. They were pastured on grass or fed some grass or alfalfa hay.

[Dachsie]

Tumbleweed, you definitely are not one of those

all hat and no cattle guys.

[Dachsie]

Reply to EE_
# 45

You mentioned The Dude and xximmy originally posted about that.

I have to say I did not quite get it but what was so strange is that a few minutes ago in my

Recommended section of YouTube home page for me

this recommended video showed up...

• 1 month ago
• •
9:20


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/92EChuYNV-M/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=196&h=110&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=68&sigh=PvRVsMThwgjjHE2Yo4y0PWcd_zw

The Dude Abides
MakingOf
• 366,838 views
• 5 years ago

______________________

I never heard of the Dude until this forum today and I certainly never went to the Dude videos on YouTube, so it cannot just be an accident that YT put this as one of my recommended videos.

What I am suggesting is that YouTube somehow communicates with whatever program (WordPress ?) this GSUS is and puts my address with the info on this forum and comes up with my Recommended videos. This has happened about two times before but I just did not think about it too much but today it just struck me as too too coincidental.

If anyone thinks I am way off base in suggesting that please let me know why. If I am on track with suggesting that, I have to say that it do not like that and that that is creepy.

[crimethink]

Having eaten at several differnt ranches in my younger days I noticed each ranch's meat and milk had its unique flavor. Non of these animals were fed commercial feeds. They were pastured on grass or fed some grass or alfalfa hay.

Everything grown or raised has a terroir. Lots of low-quality people insist it's "all the same," but, I'm sorry, I know it's not. My wife has particular tastes in milk, too.

[EE_]

Reply to EE_
# 45

You mentioned The Dude and xximmy originally posted about that.

I have to say I did not quite get it but what was so strange is that a few minutes ago in my

Recommended section of YouTube home page for me

this recommended video showed up...

• 1 month ago
• •
9:20


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/92EChuYNV-M/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=196&h=110&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=68&sigh=PvRVsMThwgjjHE2Yo4y0PWcd_zw

The Dude Abides
MakingOf
• 366,838 views
• 5 years ago

______________________

I never heard of the Dude until this forum today and I certainly never went to the Dude videos on YouTube, so it cannot just be an accident that YT put this as one of my recommended videos.

What I am suggesting is that YouTube somehow communicates with whatever program (WordPress ?) this GSUS is and puts my address with the info on this forum and comes up with my Recommended videos. This has happened about two times before but I just did not think about it too much but today it just struck me as too too coincidental.

If anyone thinks I am way off base in suggesting that please let me know why. If I am on track with suggesting that, I have to say that it do not like that and that that is creepy.

I bet you were tracked by google when you clicked on/watched the posted video. My guess...

[Dachsie]

"I bet you were tracked by google when you clicked on/watched the posted video. My guess... "

Seems like there would be some here that would know the facts and we would not have to guess about this.

So google tracks any on this forum who click on any video posted on GSUS?

[osoab]

How much snow are they calling for you this go around Tumbleweed. I saw 30+ inches in N.D.

[Tumbleweed]

I think the storm went more to the north of me and I heard North Dakota was going to get hit pretty hard. There was about six inches of new snow that came over night here and there has been a steady light snow fall all day. Not to much of an accumulation because the ground is warm and it melts from underneath. All the leaves are still on the trees and a wet heavy snow tends to break a lot of branches when that happens. The winds have been strong so that makes things a little more difficult. I spent the day yesterday gathering my cattle and getting them to shelter because of the storm warnings they had out. The weather service was putting out some dire warnings and after what happened a few years ago everyone was busy scrambling to get their cattle to shelter. It didn't turn out as bad as they were saying it might.

[osoab]

I think the storm went more to the north of me and I heard North Dakota was going to get hit pretty hard. There was about six inches of new snow that came over night here and there has been a steady light snow fall all day. Not to much of an accumulation because the ground is warm and it melts from underneath. All the leaves are still on the trees and a wet heavy snow tends to break a lot of branches when that happens. The winds have been strong so that makes things a little more difficult. I spent the day yesterday gathering my cattle and getting them to shelter because of the storm warnings they had out. The weather service was putting out some dire warnings and after what happened a few years ago everyone was busy scrambling to get their cattle to shelter. It didn't turn out as bad as they were saying it might.

I am glad to here you are not getting the snowmagedon that happened back 5 years ago. Saw some reports/pictures of farmers in N.D. doing everything they could to bring in what they could before the snow arrived. Still crops in the fields in South Dakota?

[Tumbleweed]

I am glad to here you are not getting the snowmagedon that happened back 5 years ago. Saw some reports/pictures of farmers in N.D. doing everything they could to bring in what they could before the snow arrived. Still crops in the fields in South Dakota?

Yes, lots of hay and some crops still in the field. I put up about 2800 big round bales of hay and all but about 90 of those are still in the field. The ground will have to dry up some or freeze before a lot of them can be hauled in to hay yards. I'm not the only one with a lot of hay still in the field. I have seen lots of sunflowers and some corn that is still to be harvested too. The snow has about stopped but the wind is still blowing quite a bit.

I'll turn my cattle out of the shelter they've been in today and let them graze because we are to have gradual warm up above freezing. I don't have tv or listen to the radio much so I don't know what's going on in other places where this storm occurred.

[monty]

Wednesday I was out repairing my son in law’s fence around his meadow in 75f degree weather. By nightfall it was down to 23f and spitting a little snow. Yesterday morning it was still in the low 20s and snowing hard at times but mostly light snow. By noon there was about 3inches. Last night and early this morning the temperature dropped to 5°f. Now it is above freezing and sunny

We are about 40 - 45 miles north of Colorado Springs. By Monday they are forecasting temperatures in the high 60s.

[Jewboo]

Wednesday I was out repairing my son in law’s fence around his meadow in 75f degree weather. By nightfall it was down to 23f and spitting a little snow. Yesterday morning it was still in the low 20s and snowing hard at times but mostly light snow. By noon there was about 3inches. Last night and early this morning the temperature dropped to 5°f. Now it is above freezing and sunny

We are about 40 - 45 miles north of Colorado Springs. By Monday they are forecasting temperatures in the high 60s.


DENVER (CBS4) – Thursday evening before midnight, the temperature in Denver dropped to a record low of 13 degrees. The previous day the city came close to a record high with 83 degrees. This difference of 70 degrees in just 2 days is tied for second largest temperature change in Denver since 1872 when records began.

:o (https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/10/11/denver-weather-largest-day-change-on-record/)

[monty]

DENVER (CBS4) – Thursday evening before midnight, the temperature in Denver dropped to a record low of 13 degrees. The previous day the city came close to a record high with 83 degrees. This difference of 70 degrees in just 2 days is tied for second largest temperature change in Denver since 1872 when records began.

:o (https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/10/11/denver-weather-largest-day-change-on-record/)

we’re about 6900 ft. here & Denver is 5200 so it is somewhat colder. I don’t think it got to 80 on Wednesday but was in the high 70s and 5° this morning at 7:00 so that is the same 70° drop as Denver.

[osoab]

Hey TW how are things going?

[Tumbleweed]

Hey TW how are things going?

I'm getting older and more stove up all the time but I'm still able to get a horse back and ride. I'm still working and the drought in the western US the last couple of years is causing me a lot of trouble. I'm just sitting back and watching the craziness that's going on all around the world and wondering how many people are going to be left alive in this country ten years from now. I've tried to warn people about the "injection" but a lot of family and friends have gotten "jabbed".

Good video here.

https://rumble.com/v1wac7i-world-premier-died-suddenly.html

I stay pretty busy and watch a few podcasts when I have time. I look in here to see what's going on mostly with the covid hoax but that's about all. Max Igan, Jeff Berwick and Steve Isdahl keep me entertained.

[osoab]

Good to know you are still in the saddle Tumbleweed.

How's the weather treating you. I have a customer in Fargo. They are not impressed with the start of winter.

Have an awesome end of the year.

Stay away from Igan, too pompous. I don't trust Berwick. He is selling his book. He cashed out at the top..

Steve, however, good stuff. Kind of exploded when he started discussing Sabe.

[monty]

Screw worms invasion

https://beefnews.org/open-borders-breached-darien-gap-biological-barrier-now-were-on-the-verge-of-being-screwwormed-new-world-style/

[Tumbleweed]

Screw worms invasion

https://beefnews.org/open-borders-breached-darien-gap-biological-barrier-now-were-on-the-verge-of-being-screwwormed-new-world-style/



This is bad. Maggots eat dead flesh, New World Screw worms eat live flesh. Any wound is a target for them whether human or animal.

Jim Mumford has a podcast on youtube called Lonesome Lands. Once a week him and Shad Sullivan have a conversation and I'll put a video here of the discussion they had about the reopening of the border.

I had a short conversation with Shad recently at the R-Calf convention and also with Margaret Byfield.

Go To the 29:00 time mark for their discussion on the reopening of the border and screw worms.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tJkkaFrKSU

[JDRock]

the real screw worm is AIPAC.

[JDRock]

My main supplier of free range beef is real slow to fill orders anymore. Hes been running cattle for 5 generations up on the gros venture ( grow vahnt )

[ziero0]

My main supplier of free range beef is real slow to fill orders anymore. Hes been running cattle for 5 generations up on the gros venture ( grow vahnt )

Neighbors cows came visiting several days ago. Hard to spot in 8 ft high corn. A drone couldn't find them. They wandered out on their own 10 hrs later but left a 3 week old calf behind.

The volunteer fire department flushed the calf out next day.