IMF Proposing 10% Supertax Bail-in On All Eurozone Household Savings

[mamboni]

mamboni comments: as if we needed another reason to convert your dollar savings (which earn virtually negative interest) into physical gold and silver outside of the banking system. If you don't use it, you will lose it. This wealth grab by TPTB is absolutely inevitable. I'm buying more eagles tomorrow - I don't even care about the dollar price anymore - I just want to get my bank balance down to bare minimum.


IMF Proposing 10% Supertax Bail-in On All Eurozone Household Savings

Oct 12, 2013 - 10:13 PM GMTBy: Raul_I_Meijer (http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/UserInfo-Raul_I_Meijer.html)


(http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Topic9.html)
This is a story that should raise an eyebrow or two on every single face in Europe, and beyond. I saw the first bits of it on a Belgian site named Express.be, whose writers in turn had stumbled upon an article in French newspaper Le Figaro, whose writer Jean-Pierre Robin had leafed through a brand new IMF report (yes, there are certain linguistic advantages in being Dutch, Canadian AND Québecois). In the report, the IMF talks about a proposal to tax everybody's savings, in the Eurozone. Looks like they just need to figure out by how mu


The IMF, I'm following Mr. Robin here, addresses the issue of the sustainability of the debt levels of developed nations, Europe, US, Japan, which today are on average 110% of GDP, or 35% more than in 2007. Such debt levels are unprecedented, other than right after the world wars. So, the Fund reasons, it's time for radical solutions.


Now, there's a history to all this. WW I and WW II led to similar ideas, some of which were executed in practice. Jean-Pierre Robin even suggests that we have just resurfaced from a financial crisis that was as destructive as a war. A nice additional point is that he also says Europe and the US got rid of their debt levels through elevated levels of inflation between 1945 and 1975, but at the same time a shame he doesn't realize that can't work here. No inflation to the rescue this time around. But radical solutions.


Back in 2011, the Boston Consulting Group was pondering something even more radical, in a report called: "Back To Mesopotamia? The Looming Threat Of Debt Restructuring". As Zero Hedge reported at the time:


The "Muddle Through" Has Failed: BCG Says "There May Be Only Painful Ways Out Of The Crisis"
(http://www.zerohedge.com/news/muddle-through-has-failed-bcg-says-there-may-be-only-painful-ways-out-crisis)

[..] ... it is time to face the facts. What facts? The facts which state that between household, corporate and government debt, the developed world has $20 trillion in debt over and above the sustainable threshold by the definition of "stable" debt to GDP of 180%. The facts according to which all attempts to eliminate the excess debt have failed, and for now even the Fed's relentless pursuit of inflating our way out this insurmountable debt load have been for nothing.


The facts which state that the only way to resolve the massive debt load is through a global coordinated debt restructuring (which would, among other things, push all global banks into bankruptcy) which, when all is said and done, will have to be funded by the world's financial asset holders: the middle-and upper-class, which, if BCG is right, have a ~30% one-time tax on all their assets to look forward to as the great mean reversion finally arrives and the world is set back on a viable path. But not before the biggest episode of "transitory" pain, misery and suffering in the history of mankind. [..]


There is one thing we would like to bring to our readers' attention because we are confident, that one way or another, sooner or later, it will be implemented. Namely a one-time wealth tax: in other words, instead of stealth inflation, the government will be forced to proceed with over transfer of wealth. According to BCG, the amount of developed world debt between household, corporate and government that needs to be eliminated is just over $21 trillion.


Which unfortunately means that there is an equity shortfall that will have to be funded with incremental cash which will have to come from somewhere. That somewhere is tax of the middle and upper classes, which are in possession of $74 trillion in financial assets, which in turn will have to be taxed at a blended rate of 28.7%.


http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2013/Oct/wealth_tax.png The IMF refers to a few studies, like one from 1990 by Barry Eichengreen on historical precedents, one from April 2013 by Saxo Bank chief economist Steen Jakobsen, who saw a 10% general asset tax as needed to repair government debt levels, and one by German economist Stefan Bach, who concluded that if all Germans owning more than €250,000, representing €2.95 trillion in wealth, were "supertaxed" on their assets at a 3.4% rate, the government could collect €100 billion, or 4% of GDP.


French investor site monfinancier.com (http://www.monfinancier.com/finances/journal-de-monfinancier-c1/edito-r2/les-epargnants-sont-les-prochaines-victimes-15272.html) talks about people close to the Elysée government discussing how a 17% supertax on all French savings over €100,000 would clear all government debt. The site is not the only voice to mention that raising "normal" taxes on either individuals or corporations is no longer viable, since it would risk plunging various economies into recession or depression.


Here's what the October 2013 IMF report, entitled Fiscal Monitor : Taxing Times (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fm/2013/02/fmindex.htm), literally says on the topic, in the chapter called:


Taxing Our Way Out Of - Or Into? - Trouble
(http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fm/2013/02/pdf/fms2.pdf)

The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a capital levy, a one-off tax on private wealth, as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability. (1) The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible, and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair).


There have been illustrious supporters, including Pigou, Ricardo, Schumpeter, and, until he changed his mind, Keynes. The conditions for success are strong, but also need to be weighed against the risks of the alternatives, which include repudiating public debt or inflating it away (these, in turn, are a particular form of wealth tax on bondholders that also falls on non-residents).


There is a surprisingly large amount of experience to draw on, as such levies were widely adopted in Europe after World War I and in Germany and Japan after World War II. Reviewed in Eichengreen (1990), this experience suggests that more notable than any loss of credibility was a simple failure to achieve debt reduction, largely because the delay in introduction gave space for extensive avoidance and capital flight, in turn spurring inflation.


The tax rates needed to bring down public debt to pre-crisis levels, moreover, are sizable: reducing debt ratios to end-2007 levels would require (for a sample of 15 euro area countries) a tax rate of about 10 percent on households with positive net wealth . (2)
(1) As for instance in Bach (2012). (2) IMF staff calculation using the Eurosystems Household Finance and Consumption Survey (Household Finance and Consumption Network, 2013); unweighted average.


It should probably be obvious that there is one key sentence here, one which explains why the IMF is seriously considering the capital levy (supertax) option, even if it's presented as hypothetical:


The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible, and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair).


It all hangs on the IMF's notion - or hope - that it can be implemented by stealth, before people have the chance to put their money somewhere else (and let's assume they're not thinking of digging in backyards, and leave tax havens alone for now). Also, that after the initial blow, people will accept the tax because they are confident it's a one-time only thing. And finally, that a sense of justice will prevail among a population, a substantial part of whom will have little, if anything, left to tax.


It may all sound far-fetched to you now, and most people will still cling on to the idea that "they wouldn't do such a thing". But that the IMF proposes it at all, and so openly, suggests that they might, if only they can figure out how. Not the IMF itself, mind you, they don't collect taxes, but then again they have been involved very intimately with the EU, the ECB and Europe's national governments, in for instance the Cyprus bail-in, which will in all likelihood serve as a blueprint for future "restructurings".


We can't however, discard the possibility that this appears in an October 2013 IMF report precisely BECAUSE it, and its peers in national governments, have found a different way to achieve the same goals. The underlying ideas are clear: most governments have debt levels that can't be rolled over into the future much longer. And inflating them away is not an option: that can't be done without increased consumer spending, and consumers are maxed out. Radical solutions are called for. Not just in Europe either, US government debt will need to be dealt with too.


Two more things: First: if this materializes, the percentage may well be above 10%, and maybe quite a bit; the Boston Consulting Group may not have been that far off 2 years ago with its 30% mark. I mean, who knows? Second: if it happens, a way will be negotiated to include those that seem to escape the hurt at first sight now, those that have nothing left to tax, in the equation. Bet on it. Leaving the poor alone is not what's seen as fair in today's societies.


And one last point, just in case it had slipped your mind. You remember what brought about that surge in government debt between 2007 and today? We bailed out the banks.



By Raul Ilargi Meijer
Website: http://theautomaticearth.com (http://theautomaticearth.com/) (provides unique analysis of economics, finance, politics and social dynamics in the context of Complexity Theory)

[singular_me]

IMF total blackmail: we are here to help, this proposal sounds fair to us, however if you refuse to contribute, you can say bu-bye to your jobs, house, etc... in short, the eurozone will collapse. There is good news though, we can promise you that this never will happen again.

[mamboni]

IMF total blackmail: we are here to help, this proposal sounds fair to us, however if you refuse to contribute, you can say bu-bye to your jobs, house, etc... in short, the eurozone will collapse.

Indeed! Coming to a nation near you! Check you local listings!

[aeondaze]

This is the VERY reason PM prices have been at best capped and at worst obliterated over the past 18 months. Can't let the peons have an escape from their ruthless money grabbing.

Lock all the hatches, no one gets out of this unscathed. :(

[woodman]

This is the VERY reason PM prices have been at best capped and at worst obliterated over the past 18 months. Can't let the peons have an escape from their ruthless money grabbing.

Lock all the hatches, no one gets out of this unscathed. :(

With PM prices artificially low you will get more of your money's worth if converting fiat to metal. It's a good thing to have prices suppressed.

[chad]

i'm with mamboni. i just hit the buy button at apmex.

[vacuum]

Remember, when this happened in Cyprus, that's when bitcoin broke out. I don't think it was so much an issue of the 10% tax, as much as it was the capital controls that you couldn't take more than 500 euros out of the country, etc. Bitcoin is anti-capital controls.

I can't see this being implemented without capital controls. As soon as they take money out of everyone's accounts, people will naturally withdraw whatever is left and there will be a run on all the banks. So keep in mind that a bail-in means ALL of your money will be frozen and there will be capital controls.

[Twisted Titan]

This is actually suicide on their part.

They own everything 5 ways to sunday and they are acting like they need the additional control.

The harder you squeeze sand the more escapes out the sides.

This will be there undoing

[General of Darkness]

Everyday I propose the rounding up jews, and no one ever does anything about that damn it.

[mamboni]

Remember, when this happened in Cyprus, that's when bitcoin broke out. I don't think it was so much an issue of the 10% tax, as much as it was the capital controls that you couldn't take more than 500 euros out of the country, etc. Bitcoin is anti-capital controls.

I can't see this being implemented without capital controls. As soon as they take money out of everyone's accounts, people will naturally withdraw whatever is left and there will be a run on all the banks. So keep in mind that a bail-in means ALL of your money will be frozen and there will be capital controls.

All true, which begs the question: what the heck are people waiting for? The butchers are circling around us with bloodied cleavers. Buy gold and silver now or be financially drawn and quartered tomorrow.

[mick silver]

but not for the goverments around the world . they only know how to take more an more


The "Muddle Through" Has Failed: BCG Says "There May Be Only Painful Ways Out Of The Crisis" (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/muddle-through-has-failed-bcg-says-there-may-be-only-painful-ways-out-crisis)

[mamboni]

10/15/2013 @ 8:00AM |8,357 views

The International Monetary Fund Lays The Groundwork For Global Wealth Confiscation




http://b-i.forbesimg.com/billfrezza/files/2013/10/300x2002.jpg (http://gold-silver.us/forum/#45aa3a)In this handout provided by the International Monetary Fund (IMF), International Monetary Fund Deputy Director Michael Keen presents the Fiscal Monitor Press Conference October 9, 2013 at the IMF Headquarters in Washington, DC. The report said that emerging-market governments were at economic risk. (Image credit: Getty Images via @daylife)





The International Monetary Fund (IMF) quietly dropped a bomb in its October Fiscal Monitor Report (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fm/2013/02/pdf/fm1302.pdf). Titled “Taxing Times,” the report paints a dire picture for advanced economies with high debts that fail to aggressively “mobilize domestic revenue.” It goes on to build a case for drastic measures and recommends a series of escalating income and consumption tax increases culminating in the direct confiscation of assets.


Yes, you read that right. But don’t take it from me. The report itself says:
Move up http://i.forbesimg.com tMove down




“The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a “capital levy”— a one-off tax on private wealth—as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability. The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair). … The conditions for success are strong, but also need to be weighed against the risks of the alternatives, which include repudiating public debt or inflating it away. … The tax rates needed to bring down public debt to precrisis levels, moreover, are sizable: reducing debt ratios to end-2007 levels would require (for a sample of 15 euro area countries) a tax rate of about 10 percent on households with positive net wealth. (page 49)”




Note three takeaways. First, IMF economists know there are not enough rich people to fund today’s governments even if 100 percent of the assets of the 1 percent were expropriated. That means that all households with positive net wealth—everyone with retirement savings or home equity—would have their assets plundered under the IMF’s formulation.


Second, such a repudiation of private property will not pay off Western governments’ debts or fund budgets going forward. It will merely “restore debt sustainability,” allowing free-spending sovereigns to keep tapping the bond markets until the next crisis comes along—for which stronger measures will be required, of course.


Third, should politicians fail to muster the courage to engage in this kind of wholesale robbery, the only alternative scenario the IMF posits is public debt repudiation and hyperinflation. Structural reform proposals for the Ponzi-scheme entitlement programs that are bankrupting us are nowhere to be seen.


If ever there were a roadmap for prompting massive capital flight and emigration of productive citizens toward capitalism’s nascent frontiers in Asia, this is it.


“The IMF justifies its tax increases by highlighting trends in income inequality along with a claimed decline in the progressivity of most income tax regimes. Using “perceived equity” (otherwise known as “envy”) as the key metric motivating tax policy, the report intentionally conflates tax rates with tax revenue, lamenting a decline in the top marginal income tax rates paid by the highest earners. Never mind that these high earners have been forking over more money, a higher percentage of their gross income, and a larger share of aggregate national tax revenue in recent years. It also ignores the Laffer Curve effects that are clearly visible in the data. As for incentive, the report pays no heed to the idea that wealth and income can only be taxed if someone is motivated to create it.”


The report’s most chilling aspect is the clinical manner in which it discusses how to restrict the mobility of the rich, along with the inconvenience of factoring in their “well being.” Again, to quote the report:



“Financial wealth is mobile, and so, ultimately, are people. … There may be a case for taxing different forms of wealth differently according to their mobility … Substantial progress likely requires enhanced international cooperation to make it harder for the very well-off to evade taxation by placing funds elsewhere.
“A revenue-maximizing approach to taxing the rich effectively puts a weight of zero on their well-being—contentious, to say the least. What then if some weight is indeed attached to the well-being of the richest? Figure 19 provides a way to think about the trade-off between equity and efficiency considerations in setting the top marginal rate in that case. … If one attaches less weight to those with the highest incomes, the vote would be to increase the top marginal rate.”



Yes, this is where the bankruptcy of the modern entitlement state is taking us—capital controls and exit restrictions so the proverbial four wolves and a lamb can vote on what’s for dinner. That’s the only way to keep citizens worried about ending up on the menu from voting with their feet. Again, straight from the report:




“There is a surprisingly large amount of experience to draw on, as such levies were widely adopted in Europe after World War I.”



And we all know how well that worked out.

[mick silver]

it looks like the ass raper are about to start taking more from the bottom

[Hatha Sunahara]

Have you ever seen a sheep after it's been sheared? They take most of the wool--95%, and the sheep looks like it had a crew cut.

So why are they proposing just 10%? Maybe they plan to do it again. Getting people used to it. Awww, c'mon, 10% is just a hefty sales tax. 10% is something people won't oppose with their hearts and souls. Just about everybody can justify not resisting if it's just 10%. The hope is that it will solve some problem. But it won't. This IS the problem--not the solution. I wish I could legally steal peoples savings to pay my gambling debts.


Hatha

[Jewboo]

http://yachtpals.com/files/news/prince-abdulaziz.jpg

http://yachtpals.com/files/userimages/mega-yacht-eclipse.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/14/article-2392892-1B4A7866000005DC-315_634x380.jpg

http://yachtpals.com/files/news/octopus-yacht.jpg

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/7a/54/98/7a54987cd837e4dc004b64ad915f1894.jpg
:rolleyes: stop picking on these rich people!


http://andreasmoser.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/african-refugees-boat.jpg?w=640

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2189/2066001554_2bc75c9089.jpg

:rolleyes: lower their wages instead!

[vacuum]

Have you ever seen a sheep after it's been sheared? They take most of the wool--95%, and the sheep looks like it had a crew cut.

So why are they proposing just 10%? Maybe they plan to do it again. Getting people used to it. Awww, c'mon, 10% is just a hefty sales tax. 10% is something people won't oppose with their hearts and souls. Just about everybody can justify not resisting if it's just 10%. The hope is that it will solve some problem. But it won't. This IS the problem--not the solution. I wish I could legally steal peoples savings to pay my gambling debts.


Hatha

A simple 10% tax would kick in the capital controls. Then you'd have to prove your expenses before you could withdraw your money. It would be illegal to withdraw and hold cash, transport cash, or move money across borders.

After the 10% tax, it doesn't matter anymore because the money isn't moving. It can be taxed again, or totally confiscated, at that point. The Cyprus bail-in, where they destroyed western banking precedents for a paltry couple billion, was a test run.

[mamboni]

A simple 10% tax would kick in the capital controls. Then you'd have to prove your expenses before you could withdraw your money. It would be illegal to withdraw and hold cash, transport cash, or move money across borders.

After the 10% tax, it doesn't matter anymore because the money isn't moving. It can be taxed again, or totally confiscated, at that point. The Cyprus bail-in, where they destroyed western banking precedents for a paltry couple billion, was a test run.

Right, the old nose of the camel in the tent manuever. Who the hell gave these asshats the power to simply take our private property without our consent? I know I didin't. 1%, 10%, 75% it's all the same damn thing: if you give an inch these fuckers will try to take it all. This infuriates me and I hope it does you. And this is a perfect illustration of how gold and silver are protectors of personal property rights: they can't shave 10% off the physical metal that you hold outside of their grubby fucking hands.

You know something, isn't it funny how they are so quick to apply a supposedly fair "wealth tax" on you and me, but never consider applying such tax on the wealthiest who possess by far the largest and most concentrated wealth: the bankers!!!!

[mamboni]

The Government Is Broke And They’re Coming For Your Cash: X22 Report – October 16, 2013 (http://thefreedomreport.us/the-government-is-broke-and-theyre-coming-for-your-cash-x22-report-october-16-2013/)
Published on Oct 16, 2013


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1AcrnX1LrR4

[EE_]

The Government Is Broke And They’re Coming For Your Cash: X22 Report – October 16, 2013 (http://thefreedomreport.us/the-government-is-broke-and-theyre-coming-for-your-cash-x22-report-october-16-2013/)
Published on Oct 16, 2013


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1AcrnX1LrR4

Good report! The gov has to have a scape-goat for the next crash.

[gunny highway]

I love how tbe MSM couches shit like this. The IMF is floating a "proposal" to tax the other seven shades of shit out people. Like they're looking for approval from some mysterious council. This is just the shot across the bow. The second article i saw posted gets it right.

[Horn]

“The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a “capital levy”— a one-off tax on private wealth—as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability.


Like a janitor in a public restroom calling a clogged toilet fixed,

when alls he did was turn off the water valve.

[mamboni]

Government Has Contemplated Seizing Pension Money for Over a Decade

Posted on October 20, 2013 (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/government-has-contemplated-seizing-pension-money-for-over-a-decade.html) by WashingtonsBlog (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/author/washingtonsblog)
When the Chips Are Down, the Government Will Be Tempted to Grab Our Assets

Ireland, Hungary (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/11/france-ireland-and-hungary-seize-pensions-as-part-of-move-by-governments-to-use-long-term-assets-to-fill-short-term-deficits.html), Poland (http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Adam-Smith-Institute-Blog/2011/0102/European-nations-begin-seizing-private-pensions), Cyprus (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/business/global/cyprus-makes-fitful-progress-on-bank-bailout-deal.html?_r=0) and other countries have seized pensions as part of move by governments to use long-term assets to fill “short-term deficits”.

Russia (http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/2013/10/03/russia-to-grab-pension-money-temporarily/) has “temporarily” seized private pensions while it carries out “inspections”.

But certainly America would never seize our pension funds … right?

Well, after Argentina seized its pension funds, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard – International Business Editor for the Telegraph – wrote (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/5504137/):


It is a foretaste of what may happen across the world as governments discover that tax revenue, and discover that the bond markets are unwilling to plug the gap. The G7 states are already acquiring an unhealthy taste for the arbitrary seizure of private property, I notice.
***
My fear is that governments in the US, Britain, and Europe will display similar reflexes. Indeed, they have already done so. The forced-feeding of banks with fresh capital – whether they want it or not – and the seizure of the Fannie/Freddie mortgage giants before they were in fact in trouble (in order to prevent a Chinese buying strike of US bonds and prevent a spike in US mortgage rates), shows that private property can be co-opted – or eliminated – with little due process ….



Forbes’ Richard Eisenberg claims that the government is targeting our 401ks with taxes (http://gold-silver.us/forum/www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2012/12/29/watch-out-your-401k-is-being-targeted/).
Indeed, rumors have swirled around Washington (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/03/demand-that-congress-pass-the-keep-your-hands-off-my-401k-act-of-2010.html) that the government was considering seizing funds from our 401k accounts.


Martin Armstrong predicted (http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/09/19/government-will-seize-all-pension-funds-globally-in-the-us-that-will-include-401ks/) last month:

Government Will Seize All Pension Funds Globally – In the US that will Include 401Ks….



And Paul Craig Roberts – former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan, former editor of the Wall Street Journal, listed by Who’s Who in America as one of the 1,000 most influential political thinkers in the world, PhD economist – notes (http://www.globalresearch.ca/de-americanize-the-man-who-usurped-the-constitution/5354825) that some government officials have considered this option more than a decade ago:

Matt Taibbi’s report on the looting of state and municipal pension funds in behalf of Wall Street’s financial gangsters heralds what is in store for our private pensions.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/looting-the-pension-funds-wall-street-is-grabbing-money-meant-for-public-workers/5352934
(http://www.globalresearch.ca/looting-the-pension-funds-wall-street-is-grabbing-money-meant-for-public-workers/5352934)
American conservatives who are so pleased that “those damned bureaucrats who live on the public tit” are getting their comeuppance fail to see the precedent for their own private pensions.

As long ago as the Clinton regime, Alicia Munnell, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston who was appointed Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy, the position I had held in the Reagan administration, advocated confiscating 15 percent of private pension funds on the basis of the argument that the pensions had accumulated tax free.

The writing is on the wall for private pensions. Once the dollar becomes too weakened by the printing of vast amounts of them in order to finance Washington’s budget deficit and to support the solvency of “banks too big too fail,” QE will have to end. Desperate for money to fill the gap, Washington will turn to confiscation of private assets should any be left after the coming economic collapse.



If this sounds like a whacky conspiracy theory, please remember that the American government has seized private assets before (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/02/yes-america-is-still-in-an-official-state-of-emergency.html), and President Obama authorized seizure of property (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/03/obama-executive-order-us-can-seize-any-person-any-resource-any-time.html) again last year. (And the U.S. government’s take-down of Megaupload was also an exercise of the power to seize all of the legal property held in a storage facility because a handful of crooks have illegal property in theirs (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/01/the-real-meaning-of-the-take-down-of-megaupload.html).)


And the American government long ago decided to save the banks at the expense of the American people (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/the-detroit-bail-in-template-fleecing-pensioners-to-save-the-banks.html). And many (http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/americans-warned-bank-bail-ins-coming/) have (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/04/winner-takes-all-the-super-priority-status-of-derivatives.html) said (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-16/everyone-shocked-what-just-happened-and-why-just-beginning) that the government will grab bank deposits as Cyprus did … and the Fed hasn’t exactly dispelled the possibility (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/03/bernanke-fails-to-reassure-over-concerns-of-a-cyprus-style-seizure-of-american-bank-deposits.html).
Postscript: The big banks are trying their best to grab your money before the government. Specifically, the big banks have shaved money off of virtually every pension transaction they handled over the course of decades, stealing collectively billions of dollars from pensions worldwide. Details here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/28/bny-mellon-case_n_1172575.html), here (http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/02/21/2009-02-21_bank_of_new_york_mellon_scored_3b_bailou.html), here (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/business/new-york-state-says-bank-of-new-york-mellon-cheated-pension-funds.html), here (http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/10/6_Madoff_Whistleblower_Tells_KWN_Banks_Stealing_Fr om_Pensions.html), here (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-07/wall_street/30253397_1_trial-dates-bny-mellon-bank), here (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703652104576122220220538048.html), here (http://blogs.reuters.com/financial-regulatory-forum/2011/02/04/analysis-madoff-whistleblower-tries-new-shield-tactic-in-bank-fraud-suits/), here (http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/wsj_on_harry_markopolos_whistl.php), here (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703960804576120544029594566.html?m od=ITP_pageone_0#articleTabs%3Darticle), here (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-12/sec-probes-state-street-foreign-exchange-pricing.html), here (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/business/21street.html) and here.


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/government-has-contemplated-seizing-pension-money-for-over-a-decade.html

[vacuum]

Government Has Contemplated Seizing Pension Money for Over a Decade

Posted on October 20, 2013 (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/government-has-contemplated-seizing-pension-money-for-over-a-decade.html) by WashingtonsBlog (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/author/washingtonsblog)
When the Chips Are Down, the Government Will Be Tempted to Grab Our Assets

Ireland, Hungary (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/11/france-ireland-and-hungary-seize-pensions-as-part-of-move-by-governments-to-use-long-term-assets-to-fill-short-term-deficits.html), Poland (http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Adam-Smith-Institute-Blog/2011/0102/European-nations-begin-seizing-private-pensions), Cyprus (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/business/global/cyprus-makes-fitful-progress-on-bank-bailout-deal.html?_r=0) and other countries have seized pensions as part of move by governments to use long-term assets to fill “short-term deficits”.

Russia (http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/2013/10/03/russia-to-grab-pension-money-temporarily/) has “temporarily” seized private pensions while it carries out “inspections”.

But certainly America would never seize our pension funds … right?

Well, after Argentina seized its pension funds, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard – International Business Editor for the Telegraph – wrote (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/5504137/):
It is a foretaste of what may happen across the world as governments discover that tax revenue, and discover that the bond markets are unwilling to plug the gap. The G7 states are already acquiring an unhealthy taste for the arbitrary seizure of private property, I notice.
***
My fear is that governments in the US, Britain, and Europe will display similar reflexes. Indeed, they have already done so. The forced-feeding of banks with fresh capital – whether they want it or not – and the seizure of the Fannie/Freddie mortgage giants before they were in fact in trouble (in order to prevent a Chinese buying strike of US bonds and prevent a spike in US mortgage rates), shows that private property can be co-opted – or eliminated – with little due process ….



Forbes’ Richard Eisenberg claims that the government is targeting our 401ks with taxes (http://gold-silver.us/forum/www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2012/12/29/watch-out-your-401k-is-being-targeted/).
Indeed, rumors have swirled around Washington (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/03/demand-that-congress-pass-the-keep-your-hands-off-my-401k-act-of-2010.html) that the government was considering seizing funds from our 401k accounts.


Martin Armstrong predicted (http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/09/19/government-will-seize-all-pension-funds-globally-in-the-us-that-will-include-401ks/) last month:
Government Will Seize All Pension Funds Globally – In the US that will Include 401Ks….



And Paul Craig Roberts – former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan, former editor of the Wall Street Journal, listed by Who’s Who in America as one of the 1,000 most influential political thinkers in the world, PhD economist – notes (http://www.globalresearch.ca/de-americanize-the-man-who-usurped-the-constitution/5354825) that some government officials have considered this option more than a decade ago:
Matt Taibbi’s report on the looting of state and municipal pension funds in behalf of Wall Street’s financial gangsters heralds what is in store for our private pensions.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/looting-the-pension-funds-wall-street-is-grabbing-money-meant-for-public-workers/5352934
(http://www.globalresearch.ca/looting-the-pension-funds-wall-street-is-grabbing-money-meant-for-public-workers/5352934)
American conservatives who are so pleased that “those damned bureaucrats who live on the public tit” are getting their comeuppance fail to see the precedent for their own private pensions.

As long ago as the Clinton regime, Alicia Munnell, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston who was appointed Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy, the position I had held in the Reagan administration, advocated confiscating 15 percent of private pension funds on the basis of the argument that the pensions had accumulated tax free.

The writing is on the wall for private pensions. Once the dollar becomes too weakened by the printing of vast amounts of them in order to finance Washington’s budget deficit and to support the solvency of “banks too big too fail,” QE will have to end. Desperate for money to fill the gap, Washington will turn to confiscation of private assets should any be left after the coming economic collapse.



If this sounds like a whacky conspiracy theory, please remember that the American government has seized private assets before (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/02/yes-america-is-still-in-an-official-state-of-emergency.html), and President Obama authorized seizure of property (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/03/obama-executive-order-us-can-seize-any-person-any-resource-any-time.html) again last year. (And the U.S. government’s take-down of Megaupload was also an exercise of the power to seize all of the legal property held in a storage facility because a handful of crooks have illegal property in theirs (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/01/the-real-meaning-of-the-take-down-of-megaupload.html).)


And the American government long ago decided to save the banks at the expense of the American people (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/the-detroit-bail-in-template-fleecing-pensioners-to-save-the-banks.html). And many (http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/americans-warned-bank-bail-ins-coming/) have (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/04/winner-takes-all-the-super-priority-status-of-derivatives.html) said (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-16/everyone-shocked-what-just-happened-and-why-just-beginning) that the government will grab bank deposits as Cyprus did … and the Fed hasn’t exactly dispelled the possibility (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/03/bernanke-fails-to-reassure-over-concerns-of-a-cyprus-style-seizure-of-american-bank-deposits.html).
Postscript: The big banks are trying their best to grab your money before the government. Specifically, the big banks have shaved money off of virtually every pension transaction they handled over the course of decades, stealing collectively billions of dollars from pensions worldwide. Details here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/28/bny-mellon-case_n_1172575.html), here (http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/02/21/2009-02-21_bank_of_new_york_mellon_scored_3b_bailou.html), here (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/business/new-york-state-says-bank-of-new-york-mellon-cheated-pension-funds.html), here (http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/10/6_Madoff_Whistleblower_Tells_KWN_Banks_Stealing_Fr om_Pensions.html), here (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-07/wall_street/30253397_1_trial-dates-bny-mellon-bank), here (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703652104576122220220538048.html), here (http://blogs.reuters.com/financial-regulatory-forum/2011/02/04/analysis-madoff-whistleblower-tries-new-shield-tactic-in-bank-fraud-suits/), here (http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/wsj_on_harry_markopolos_whistl.php), here (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703960804576120544029594566.html?m od=ITP_pageone_0#articleTabs%3Darticle), here (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-12/sec-probes-state-street-foreign-exchange-pricing.html), here (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/business/21street.html) and here.


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/government-has-contemplated-seizing-pension-money-for-over-a-decade.html

I wish I could tell people at work about this kind of stuff, not only about the 401k seizure but also about savings seizure and capital controls, but they just want to argue, need to see hard sources and proof, then if I show them something like this they'll find reasons it's alarmist, etc. It's just too much effort to try to help them and no good seems to come out of it, just blowback.

[Hatha Sunahara]

I wish I could tell people at work about this kind of stuff, not only about the 401k seizure but also about savings seizure and capital controls, but they just want to argue, need to see hard sources and proof, then if I show them something like this they'll find reasons it's alarmist, etc. It's just too much effort to try to help them and no good seems to come out of it, just blowback.

Don't waste your time trying to persuade people that something serious is coming. If you just convey the message that you believe we are in deep shit, the ones whose interest you stimulate will come to you and ask you for details. Before you make any effort to explain anything, vet them. Find out if they are seriously interested in preparing themselves, or of they are just trying to 'smoke you out' as a conspiracy theorist.

You'll get some reinforcement for this process if you go to Wikipedia and look up what they have to say about 'Conventional Wisdom'. You'll also get an idea why its so frustrating to get people to see what you see. What's really interesting is that after TSHTF, they will all claim that they could see it coming a mile away. And that YOU were all wrong about it. So, being forewarned and forearmed, conserve your energy. There is no profit in 'waking up the sheep'.


Hatha

[ximmy]

the people must suffer...

[chad]

just listened to a lindsey williams interview from rense.com the other night. his "insider" is predicting this.

[mamboni]

just listened to a lindsey williams interview from rense.com the other night. his "insider" is predicting this.

I'm beggin' ya' I'm beggin' ya'....do you have a link? I love listening to the Pastor. No other man can massage information and milk it into dry dust like the good Pastor. Oh my, did ya' catch that? Did you catch that word? You've got to listen for the buzz words! Now listen carefully and I'll say it again.........m a s s s a g e.....Ok, did you get a pen and paper? Did you write it down? Please, I'm beggin' ya'

[mamboni]

the people must suffer...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-dsiufhMu0