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View Full Version : Angry Over U.S. Surveillance, Tech Giants Bolster Defenses



Ares
3rd November 2013, 10:03 PM
SAN FRANCISCO — Google has spent months and millions of dollars encrypting email, search queries and other information flowing among its data centers worldwide. Facebook’s chief executive said at a conference this fall that the government “blew it.” And though it has not been announced publicly, Twitter plans to set up new types of encryption to protect messages from snoops.

It is all reaction to reports of how far the government has gone in spying on Internet users, sneaking around tech companies to tap into their systems without their knowledge or cooperation.

What began as a public relations predicament for America’s technology companies has evolved into a moral and business crisis that threatens the foundation of their businesses, which rests on consumers and companies trusting them with their digital lives.

So they are pushing back in various ways — from cosmetic tactics like publishing the numbers of government requests they receive to political ones including tense conversations with officials behind closed doors. And companies are building technical fortresses intended to make the private information in which they trade inaccessible to the government and other suspected spies.

Yet even as they take measures against government collection of personal information, their business models rely on collecting that same data, largely to sell personalized ads. So no matter the steps they take, as long as they remain ad companies, they will be gathering a trove of information that will prove tempting to law enforcement and spies.

When reports of surveillance by the National Security Agency surfaced in June, the companies were frustrated at the exposure of their cooperation with the government in complying with lawful requests for the data of foreign users, and they scrambled to explain to customers that they had no choice but to obey the requests.

But as details of the scope of spying emerge, frustration has turned to outrage, and cooperation has turned to war.

The industry has learned that it knew of only a fraction of the spying, and it is grappling with the risks of being viewed as an enabler of surveillance of foreigners and American citizens.

Lawmakers in Brazil, for instance, are considering legislation requiring online services to store the data of local users in the country. European lawmakers last week proposed a measure to require American Internet companies to receive permission from European officials before complying with lawful government requests for data.

“The companies, some more than others, are taking steps to make sure that surveillance without their consent is difficult,” said Christopher Soghoian, a senior analyst at the American Civil Liberties Union. “But what they can’t do is design services that truly keep the government out because of their ad-supported business model, and they’re not willing to give up that business model.”

Even before June, Google executives worried about infiltration of their networks. The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the N.S.A. was tapping into the links between data centers, the beating heart of tech companies housing user information, confirming that their suspicions were not just paranoia.

In response, David Drummond, Google’s chief legal officer, issued a statement that went further than any tech company had publicly gone in condemning government spying. “We have long been concerned about the possibility of this kind of snooping,” he said. “We are outraged at the lengths to which the government seems to have gone.”

A tech industry executive who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivities around the surveillance, said, “Just based on the revelations yesterday, it’s outright theft,” adding, “These are discussions the tech companies are not even aware of, and we find out from a newspaper.”

Though tech companies encrypt much of the data that travels between their servers and users’ computers, they do not generally encrypt their internal data because they believe it is safe and because encryption is expensive and time-consuming and slows down a network.

But Google decided those risks were worth it. And this summer, as it grew more suspicious, it sped up a project to encrypt internal systems. Google is also building many of its own fiber-optic lines through which the data flows; if it controls them, they are harder for outsiders to tap.

Tech companies’ security teams often feel as if they are playing a game of Whac-a-Mole with intruders like the government, trying to stay one step ahead.

Google, for instance, changes its security keys, which unlock encrypted digital data so it is readable, every few weeks. Google, Facebook and Yahoo have said they are increasing the length of these keys to make them more difficult to crack.

Facebook also said it was adding the encryption method of so-called perfect forward secrecy, which Google did in 2011. This means that even if someone gets access to a secret key, that person cannot decrypt past messages and traffic.

“A lot of the things everybody knew they should do but just weren’t getting around to are now a much higher priority,” said Paul Kocher, president and chief scientist of Cryptography Research, which makes security technologies.

Facebook said in July that it had turned on secure browsing by default, and Yahoo said last month that it would do the same for Yahoo Mail early next year. And Twitter is developing a variety of new security measures, including encrypting private direct messages, according to a person briefed on the measures.

Many tech companies have made public information about the number of government requests for user data they receive, and sued to ask for permission to publish more of this data. On Thursday, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Yahoo, Apple and AOL reiterated these points in a letter to members of Congress.

But publishing the numbers of requests the companies receive has less meaning now that reports show the government sees company data without submitting a legal request.

A sense of betrayal runs through the increasingly frequent conversations between tech company lawyers and lawmakers and law enforcement in Washington, and in private conversations among engineers at the companies and increasingly outspoken public statements by executives.

Mr. Drummond and Larry Page, Google’s co-founder and chief executive, have said privately that they thought the government betrayed them when the N.S.A. leaks began, by failing to explain the tech companies’ role to the public or the extent of its spying to the tech companies, according to three people briefed on these conversations. When President Obama invited tech chief executives to discuss surveillance in August, Mr. Page did not go and sent a lower-level employee instead.

Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook’s chief executive, sarcastically discussed surveillance at the TechCrunch Disrupt conference in September.

“The government blew it,” he said. “The government’s comment was, ‘Oh, don’t worry, basically we’re not spying on any Americans.’ Right, and it’s like, ‘Oh, wonderful, yeah, it’s like that’s really helpful to companies that are really trying to serve people around the world and really going to inspire confidence in American Internet companies.’ ”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/01/technology/angry-over-us-surveillance-tech-giants-bolster-defenses.html

mamboni
3rd November 2013, 10:11 PM
Once trust is lost, it can never be regained. This is a most fundamental truth governing human conduct.

Hypertiger
4th November 2013, 05:27 AM
Lol.

they are all spying on you all.

it is virtually impossible for you to know what is coming and going to and from your computer.

You all do not even know what is going on in your computers right now and never will.

Once the programs and microprocessors and controllers are constructed...you would have to reverse engineer them to figure out if they were ok to be trusted.

The instant you all started using computers and connected to the Internet...it was checkmate.

All these stories are just visible noise for sheep to be mesmerized and entertained by.

The signals are moving at the speed of light...and they are invisible.

you all have to escape the entanglement in threads like flys trapped in the world wide web of lies.

What is the probability you are going to stop trusting your new found computer friends?

Drug dealers supply the first hit for free to get you hooked.

Ares
4th November 2013, 06:42 AM
it is virtually impossible for you to know what is coming and going to and from your computer.

No it's not. You ever heard of packet logging? Everything leaves a trail and you can see EXACTLY what is going in and out of your computer or network at any given time.


Once the programs and microprocessors and controllers are constructed...you would have to reverse engineer them to figure out if they were ok to be trusted.

Nope, see my above comment for clarification.


The instant you all started using computers and connected to the Internet...it was checkmate.

Checkmate for whom? If the "elite" weren't scared, they wouldn't be implementing this draconian police state and spying methods. That's not a position taken of security in their own methods, that is a tactic of desperation.


All these stories are just visible noise for sheep to be mesmerized and entertained by.

That may be, but I certainly will not trust any other "tech giant" with any personal data and I never did from the get go. Any of my email accounts and even my account here has been created with false physical world (i.e. real life) data.



The signals are moving at the speed of light...and they are invisible.

No they are not, again see my first comment. You cannot hide a packet from a router, everything leaves a transaction log IF YOU'VE ENABLED IT. By default most routers have the transaction log disabled. You have to manually enable it and tell your router where you want the log dumped as it will not have the storage to keep it on the device. A transaction log can grow to 2-3GB in as little as a week depending on your usage.


What is the probability you are going to stop trusting your new found computer friends?

A computer is nothing more than a tool, one that can be incredibly locked down, or one that can be wide open as a barn door.


Drug dealers supply the first hit for free to get you hooked.

umm Information awareness is not a drug. You do realize you're using a computer to post here right?

collector
4th November 2013, 10:14 AM
Ares, can you explain a little more on packet logging?
Is it something that we can all enable and then read, where it lists names or designations, or is the log just a series of numbers referring to IP addresses?

Ares
4th November 2013, 10:35 AM
Ares, can you explain a little more on packet logging?
Is it something that we can all enable and then read, where it lists names or designations, or is the log just a series of numbers referring to IP addresses?

Sure thing,

Packet logging is used for security auditing purposes of most businesses. They have too for security and regulatory compliance reasons. Say if there is a breach they have to go through the logs and find out what IP address the breach was initiated from.

The log will show Source and Destination IP Address of each packet that goes through the router or firewall. Think of a packet as a letter in the mail. It always has a To and From address. Same with a packet. It will tell you the type of protocol used TCP, UDP, and sometimes it's contents if you enable packet sniffing. But can bog down the entire logging process if you don't have enough storage to keep all of it's contents.

Home Routers can be configured for logging as well. It will give you everything I just listed above except for packet contents. But you have to know what you're looking for as you have millions of packets leaving and incoming daily just by browsing the web, checking email, or watching video's.

Hypertiger
4th November 2013, 11:49 AM
Waves inside of waves that you can not even see or detect.

You think you are hiding anything from me?

You only know of my existence because I'm showing you.

Otherwise you would be in bliss.

snorting a line of ignorance to the bright glorious future.

That I get for free and then mark up and sell to you for a huge profit.

Until I show up and become visible...and tell you are my drug addict and you are hooked and doomed...and you panic and go into denial mode.

But that is not what I do...I just supply power...to the master for free...it is the master that marks it up and sells it to you all for a massive profit.

I cut the power...and poof...back into the invisible world that muggles cant see into.

If the Internet goes down...you will certainly be free then...such as Truth shall set you free.

Hypertiger
4th November 2013, 12:02 PM
Hyperinflation...who cares because it will be followed by hyperdeflation into the jaws of defeat.

The charts may look chaotic but behind all this perplexity is the system of order an precision you can not fathom.

the resources are running out and being cut off to sustain the required amount of price inflation to sustain the illusion.

but the bottom of the barrel is getting closer and closer...once it is hit...show time.

I'm a trained killer and know more than anyone is obviously supposed to know...Its becoming stupid to exist any more for me.

You all are going insane faster than me being exposed to the deflation you are in denial of.

I'm at the end...but you will not see me when you get there.

you will see someone or something else or it will be over so quick...you will not see the end.

7th trump
4th November 2013, 12:07 PM
Hyperinflation...who cares because it will be followed by hyperdeflation into the jaws of defeat.

The charts may look chaotic but behind all this perplexity is the system of order an precision you can not fathom.

the resources are running out and being cut off to sustain the required amount of price inflation to sustain the illusion.

but the bottom of the barrel is getting closer and closer...once it is hit...show time.

I'm a trained killer and know more than anyone is obviously supposed to know...Its becoming stupid to exist any more for me.

You all are going insane faster than me being exposed to the deflation you are in denial of.

I'm at the end...but you will not see me when you get there.

you will see someone or something else or it will be over so quick...you will not see the end.

Wow.........what an egotistical mental masturbation.

Hypertiger
4th November 2013, 12:30 PM
Yes it is your reflection you are having an war with kiddo.

Your shadow that you called out to roll around an play with because you are a game player...and I showed up to spoil your fun out of hyperspace.

Or what do you think you are connected to?

no matter how hard I try to put ends to games before they begin.

the games are already being played and are very hard to stop.

As long as you can keep chopping down imaginary trees I supply...you will just keep on chopping....creating deflation to power your inflation.

until you reach the logical conclusion of the reasonable assumption....where I stop holding your hand and helping you get to where you are going.

to the head chopping off room...when you are no longer a positive influence on the rest of the positives around you.

you turn negative...and there is no cure.

and its off with your head.

How about your solution...the gold standard...Bretton woods style.

Please pretty please with uncle sugar on top most glorious USA...Supply my demand for one atom of GOLD...

NO fuck off.

Bullet in the head right there...roll the credits...it's a wrap....

But your masters had a plan ready before then to avoid that death by exposure to reality in 1971.

Hypertiger
4th November 2013, 12:54 PM
you will not get to the stage where you begin to understand reality and you will die by death to exposer to fantasy...and die in your sleep having a nightmare of dying in a fit of agony.

or ascending up to hyperinflationary heaven following a false profit.

what ever floats your boat...but I can not supply you with power for ever to make any fantasy you tell me is reality to believe in to come true.

Unless I add a miracle ingredient that you all say you have that I don't and that I'm a loser and you all are winners.

Good if you have the miracle ingredient to drip on my family and cause them to curl up and blow away...Then that will be some egotistical crap eliminated from the equation of your persuasion

Or figure out a way to just take me out and men in black forget me flash everyone.

Or I'm going to continue to exist.

Shut your internet down to protect your internet form my Internet.

the clock is ticking I'm not the only one.

that is getting upset with retards trying to school me for decades on how the world works because they have zero idea who is behind the illusion they think is truth slaving to them and it.

like is it the system I serve or you?

and you want me to do what?

vanish back into thin air from where I came from?

because you are positive and I'm negative and you just think positive and ignore/reject negative...and that is your solution?

So I should just go invisible and take you all to the cleaners and laugh till the day I die because you will never figure it out...hahahahah....All I have to do is walk around maintain my ignorance to avoid being proven knowledgeable...

like you all...or maybe you are ignorant...oh well...I guess you have me fooled real good.

Welcome to death of your cherished delusions soon...they will shatter faster and faster...they are picking up speed constantly since 2008 the whole world is picking up speed toward show time.

They have some kind of plan at the top...since you all are still enjoying trying to goof off with me.

ximmy
4th November 2013, 02:58 PM
Google, Facebook & Twitter are all full of crap. They are in on it and probably given perks as well. This is just a little damage control on their part. To deflect their sins off in another direction.

7th trump
4th November 2013, 03:16 PM
you will not get to the stage where you begin to understand reality and you will die by death to exposer to fantasy...and die in your sleep having a nightmare of dying in a fit of agony.

or ascending up to hyperinflationary heaven following a false profit.

what ever floats your boat...but I can not supply you with power for ever to make any fantasy you tell me is reality to believe in to come true.

Unless I add a miracle ingredient that you all say you have that I don't and that I'm a loser and you all are winners.

Good if you have the miracle ingredient to drip on my family and cause them to curl up and blow away...Then that will be some egotistical crap eliminated from the equation of your persuasion

Or figure out a way to just take me out and men in black forget me flash everyone.

Or I'm going to continue to exist.

Shut your internet down to protect your internet form my Internet.

the clock is ticking I'm not the only one.

that is getting upset with retards trying to school me for decades on how the world works because they have zero idea who is behind the illusion they think is truth slaving to them and it.

like is it the system I serve or you?

and you want me to do what?

vanish back into thin air from where I came from?

because you are positive and I'm negative and you just think positive and ignore/reject negative...and that is your solution?

So I should just go invisible and take you all to the cleaners and laugh till the day I die because you will never figure it out...hahahahah....All I have to do is walk around maintain my ignorance to avoid being proven knowledgeable...

like you all...or maybe you are ignorant...oh well...I guess you have me fooled real good.

Welcome to death of your cherished delusions soon...they will shatter faster and faster...they are picking up speed constantly since 2008 the whole world is picking up speed toward show time.

They have some kind of plan at the top...since you all are still enjoying trying to goof off with me.

There is no plan you moron....what's coming is not your cherished hyperinflation or deflation bullshit.......what's coming is you cannot sell or buy without the mark of the beast.
And the number is not money, credit, obamacare, gold back currency, not fiat,......not even the wealthy nor the pee-ons can sell or buy without it.
See hypertyger.......even the Bible that's written thousands of years ago is proving you're a foolish egotistic delusional mental masturbating idiot.
Sounds to me there's going to be plenty of "economy" to go around. Problem is, in order to buy or sell (being economic), you must take allegiance (666).
Even the wealthy must take the allegiance in order to trade and become more wealthy....capitalism exists even right up to the 7th trump and afterwards.
And I'll even say this ....capitalism will exist even after this is all said and done with. Clear after God returns the earth back to its original state of paradise it will be.

collector
5th November 2013, 04:40 AM
Sure thing,

Packet logging is used for security auditing purposes of most businesses. They have too for security and regulatory compliance reasons. Say if there is a breach they have to go through the logs and find out what IP address the breach was initiated from.

The log will show Source and Destination IP Address of each packet that goes through the router or firewall. Think of a packet as a letter in the mail. It always has a To and From address. Same with a packet. It will tell you the type of protocol used TCP, UDP, and sometimes it's contents if you enable packet sniffing. But can bog down the entire logging process if you don't have enough storage to keep all of it's contents.

Home Routers can be configured for logging as well. It will give you everything I just listed above except for packet contents. But you have to know what you're looking for as you have millions of packets leaving and incoming daily just by browsing the web, checking email, or watching video's.

Thanks Ares !

mick silver
5th November 2013, 06:11 PM
do tell ..................who is behind the illusion