f-ing bitcoin

[chad]

how is it possible that some electronic mumbo-jumbo digital wallet encryption number is worth $270 per number, but my ounce of silver that has been used for thousands years as money, has to be f-ing dug out of the ground and tediously refined is worth $22 per ounce?

this makes no sense. no sense at all.

[Rubberchicken]

Haha Don't make me go Hypertiger on you

[midnight rambler]

Easy - symbolism over substance.

[palani]

my ounce of silver that has been used for thousands years as money, has to be f-ing dug out of the ground and tediously refined is worth $22 per ounce?

Maybe you need to review the history of the tulip bulb market?

[Serpo]

I was thinking gold when I read this earlier as gold was worth this not long ago but you hit the nail on the head here .....................bitcoin 10X more valuable than SILVER...........in only a couple of years .........

[chad]

i have only one explanation: nerds.

my only consolation: huge boxes of cci .22LR. that shit will be worth millions in a few years.

[madfranks]

This might partially answer your question. How many people around the world can easily convert their government fiat into silver? Very few. How many people around the world can easily convert their government fiat into bitcoins? Anyone with a computer and internet.

[chad]

i know, that's the part i can't wrap my head around. why would you want to store wealth in something that requires computers, internet, and electrical power to work? what do you do when the power goes off, trade your thumb drives back and forth?

[madfranks]

For kicks, a while back I sold a roll of silver dimes on bitmit for 0.85 bitcoins. Looking back I should have sold my other two rolls of silver dimes at that time. I could buy 7 rolls of silver dimes today with the proceeds if I did.

[madfranks]

i know, that's the part i can't wrap my head around. why would you want to store wealth in something that requires computers, internet, and electrical power to work? what do you do when the power goes off, trade your thumb drives back and forth?

Take consolation then, that if the power gird does go down, many fortunes in bitcoins will disappear. However, not everyone in the world believes the grid will shut down, and believe that electricity and the internet are here to stay.

[Ponce]

Anything is worth only the price given to it by the people either by faith or need...... me? only what I hold has a price.

By the way, today at the only grocery store here in town.....a round lollipop on a stick .85 cents, 8 roll package of Chinese tp going for $11.65

V

[chad]

great point ponce. 22 or so lollipos or an ounce of silver? silver is retarded cheap right now. i need to donate plasma and buy more.

[EE_]

This might partially answer your question. How many people around the world can easily convert their government fiat into silver? Very few everyone, on ebay, online, anyone with a cell phone, pm dealers.
How many people around the world can easily convert their government fiat into bitcoins? Anyone with a computer and internet. how many even understand bitcoin?

How many people around the world own silver?
How many people own bitcoin?

[Terry853]

I think more people are coming to realize that if you do it right no government can steal your money. Also even if the power goes down in NA there will be places where it doesn't go down. That country will no doubt contain many computer copies of all that bitcoin is. That seems to be the beauty of the system. multiple redundincy built into the system. I do tend to believe that a free net and encyrpted currency has a big future. Wish I had got in when a bitcoin was 19 cents because I almost did.

[Ponce]

Terry? did you read about the guy who bought some bitcoins in 2009 for $25.00? it went this year to $800,000 plus.

V

[madfranks]

How many people around the world own silver?
How many people own bitcoin?

You make a good argument for why even now is a good time to invest. China just woke up to it, which is the main cause of it's recent jump. Just wait until bitcoin truly does go mainstream.

[EE_]

You make a good argument for why even now is a good time to invest. China just woke up to it, which is the main cause of it's recent jump. Just wait until bitcoin truly does go mainstream.

You're probably right. I'm still not sure what is driving price. Are people bidding on bitcoins?

If the Chinese adopt the bitcoin as currency, there's no telling how high price can go.
From what I've seen asians are crazy about their electronics.
I picture a billion Chinese crowded tightly together (mostly males) totally oblivious to everyone around them while they are in constant contact with someone else.

[madfranks]

You're probably right. I'm still sure what is driving price. Are people bidding on bitcoins?

Check out BTC-e - there are buy orders and sell orders listed.

https://btc-e.com/

[EE_]

Is This Why Bitcoin Is Surging?
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 11/06/2013 18:13 -0500


Bitcoin, an online-only currency scarcely four years old, is breaking out to new highs this week and now sports a total value of $2.8 billion. Just a few months ago, it looked like this economic experiment as the world’s first decentralized technology-based form of money would crash and burn. Since then, ConvergEx's Nick Colas points out that the U.S. government has shut down a large drug website which accepted bitcoins and promised further scrutiny of its uses; and omputer science experts have warned that bitcoin is neither especially private – one of its notional values – or especially well constructed. The market doesn't seem to care, with incremental demand from U.S. citizens (through Second Market) and Chinese nationals leading the path higher. Could bitcoin still fail? Sure. But, as Colas notes, its success to date speaks to how much the world is changing... Technology – properly packaged – can engender enough trust to develop a new asset class.

Bitcoin will eventually have to develop a lot more infrastructure to be a useful global currency, to be sure. But there’s close to $3 billion of real money to help back that transition.

Via ConvergEx's Nick Colas,

Bitcoin - The Lazarus Currency

Every great religion, or company, or country, or rock band has a dramatic ‘Creation myth’ – the story of its birth. The Judeo-Christian tradition has the story of God creating the world in seven days. Google has the grad-student thesis story. American culture is still informed by the Revolutionary War. And where would the Rolling Stones be if Keith hadn’t chatted up Mick on the train, just because he holding some new R&B albums from the States?

Bitcoin, the online-only stateless currency, has its own creation myth and it is purpose-made to appeal to exactly the kind of people who would find value in it. The highlights are:

The original design for bitcoin comes from a 2008 paper published by a person named Satoshi Nakamoto. Who, by the by, doesn’t actually exist.



Bitcoin’s basic architecture is decentralized – no one is “In control.” People with fast computers and some coding skills compete to solve a puzzle created by the algorithm described in Satoshi’s paper. Simultaneously, they track all the transactions in the bitcoin universe – people and businesses exchanging value for goods and services. Every ten minutes, on average, some lucky coder – or group of coders – solves the puzzle, gets a few new bitcoins, and validates the transaction list. Then the whole thing resets and everyone gets to work on the next puzzle.



In principle, this process leaves everyone exchanging or “mining” (cracking the code gets you 25 bitcoins currently) anonymously in the system. Everything in bitcoin is identified with a nearly-impossible-to-crack coding of letters and numbers. No names, phone numbers, or addresses needed.

Now, who do you think would find this creation story appealing? A few candidates:

Tech savvy people, who by their nature and high-functioning professional skills tend to have a few shekels lying around? Yep – classic early adopters.



Then there might be independence-minded older white males in the U.S., ticked off by the Federal Reserve and government in general. Yes, they like the story as well.



And then there are the criminals – drug dealers and so forth – who might not know a creation myth from crystal meth, but appreciate the potential for secrecy.



Offshore millionaires from essentially anywhere in the world, looking for classic diversification and a liquid investment. All you need to access your bitcoins is that long alphanumeric key and a local bank account which links to a ‘Wallet’ – an online repository to hold the currency. Deposit money in China, write down the key, fly to Monaco and go into an Internet café. Easy-peasy.

The basic appeal of this “Genesis” creation story lit a fire under bitcoin, starting at the beginning of 2012 at around $5 and ending up in a spectacular bubble top at $240 in April 2013. The cause of that peak – overwhelming tulip-bulbish demand for bitcoin – was its undoing. Exchanges where people went to trade dollars or euros for bitcoin couldn’t keep up with the volume. Accounts froze or moved very slowly, and confidence in the currency dropped, along with the price. Just a few days after the $240 high, bitcoin was trading for less than $60.

Creation myths are great anchors for a belief system, but there have to be other parts to the narrative; bitcoin is safely into its own “Exodus” – the second book of the Old Testament. That fall from the highs was just the beginning of its problems.

The U.S. government made it clear that they expect all currencies and their users to adhere to anti-money-laundering laws, including know-your-customer statutes which eliminate the notional secrecy of bitcoin.



The Feds also went after the druggies, shutting down Silk Road – a widely known website for the purchase of illicit substances.



In an odd twist of fate, the U.S. government now owns about 174,000 bitcoins, with a current value of $42 million thanks to the Silk Road bust and other actions.

If bitcoin were a company, the class action lawyers would be circling, fighting for air with the bankruptcy experts. There is simply no way so much legal action, let alone several ongoing problems with security in the system, would have left Satoshi Nakamoto’s creation as anything but roadkill on the world’s economic superhighway.

But here’s the beauty part: bitcoin is making a new high this week, breaking through the spiky bubble levels of April in a pretty controlled and orderly manner. What gives? A few points:

The biggest bitcoin exchange is now in China, displacing Japanese, American and European sources of demand. That enterprise is called BTC China, and its CEO Bobby Lee hails from Yahoo! and Walmart China. Oh, and he graduated from Stanford with a degree in Computer Science. In short, an apparently pretty clever fellow.



Our sources in the bitcoin community also agree that Second Market, the New York based business best known for trading pre-IPO company stock, has become a major player in demand for bitcoin. Earlier this year they started the Bitcoin Investment Trust, an open ended product to buy and hold bitcoins. There’s no way to know how much Second Market has purchased on behalf of its clients, but it must be a popular offering – the banner ad on their site for the trust occupied the top third of their front page.



It’s not all been roses for bitcoin, even in this recent run-up. Back in September computer science researchers from UC – San Diego showed that it was actually fairly easy to track individual transactions in the bitcoin transaction ledger. Just this week, academics at Cornell proposed that bitcoin could eventually be coopted by a handful of “Miners” who could hijack the system.

So why is bitcoin seemingly minted on Teflon? Limited supply, for one reason. There will never be more than 21 million bitcoins, and there are only 12.0 million currently. In the 4-ish minutes it has taken you to read this far, the most new bitcoins that might have been issued is 25, or $6,250. In the same timeframe, the Federal Reserve has pushed another $7.8 million into the financial system with Quantitative Easing. And then there is the undeniable creation-story appeal – a technology based sort-of-secret store of value. If James Bond, Sergey Brin and Paul Volcker all got together and designed their ideal currency, it might look a lot like bitcoin.

At the same time, the story isn’t over yet. If the “Exodus” analogy is to fit at all, then bitcoin is still in the wilderness. It has clearly withstood many challenges, and there are probably more to come. The end of the journey actually has little to do with how much bitcoin is worth, but what it might be good for.

That’s the piece some investors – many made quite wealthy by the incredible increase in bitcoin’s value – are working on now. A few final thoughts here:

Bitcoin is a more efficient method of transferring money than the current global banking system. The transaction ledger is essentially kept for free by the mining community. Want to send $100 to someone in England and have them redeem British pounds? It will likely cost you $5 or more. A bitcoin transfer is essentially free.



Merchants can accept bitcoin payments without paying the typical credit card fees of 1-5%. That’s one reason for the growing acceptance of bitcoin in China – online merchants are starting to accept this online currency.



Bitcoin could become a country’s ‘Second currency’. One of the more interesting conversations with one of our industry sources is the thought that one or more sovereign nations would entertain making bitcoin a parallel currency to their existing monetary system. Keep in mind that our source owns a lot of bitcoin personally…. But it is an intriguing thought nonetheless.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/why-bitcoin-surging

[sirgonzo420]

ah bitcoin.

Haha. I will admit that satoshi (bitcoin's creator) could be the banking cartel, the NSA, or anyone in between, or hell, even a math-whiz cypher-punk with freedom-loving tendencies. It could even be me. It's not, but it could be.

The point is, is that those who can read the writing on the wall, can see that Bitcoin is kind of a big deal, and will possibly (if not likely) morph into the ubiquitous "credits" found throughout the sci-fi genre. This can potentially have good and bad consequences, depending on one's perspectives and aims.

If gold and silver are an "investment", then Bitcoin is a similar "investment", but with an even greater upswing potential. Mention of Bitcoin was made on the original GIM forum, and the response then was not generally a favorable one, but those who took the time to understand were able to see the utility in such a protocol.

Bitcoin is the real "e-gold". It is mathematical gold for the internet.

Of course, none of this is real, Bitcoin is an illusion, FRNs are an illusion, even gold/silver are an illusion.

All of this material and non-material stuff is ultimately illusory, and seeks only to veil the unspeakable Truth. Forgive me if I wax Hypertigerian. Hypertiger struggles to give voice to a Truth that can't be spoken or transmitted from person to person. One point that can be doled out simply enough, is, don't get attached, to the material or otherwise. [this has been a public service announcement from your resident mystic]

[Horn]

how is it possible that some electronic mumbo-jumbo digital wallet encryption number is worth $270 per number, but my ounce of silver that has been used for thousands years as money, has to be f-ing dug out of the ground and tediously refined is worth $22 per ounce?

this makes no sense. no sense at all.

Fashion,

"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

Bitcoin


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRgAuFeddc8

[EE_]

Bitcoin is Ron Pauls dream come true

RP: Allowing individuals and business to use alternate currencies, especially currencies backed by gold and silver, would expose the whole rotten system because the marketplace would prefer such alternate currencies unless and until the Fed suddenly imposed radical discipline on its dollar inflation.

Since the Fed controls gold and silver, it could be bitcoin that destroys the Fed?

[vacuum]

Being able to hold wealth either in your head or with some letters on a scrap of paper is valuable in a world where pensions, bank accounts, houses, and items on your person are all open to confiscation.

Sometimes you need a currency that just lets you actually hold and spend your money however you want without constant threat of confiscation and taxation/theft.

[Horn]

Bitcoin is the real "e-gold". It is mathematical gold for the internet.

You need Litecoin.

[Uncle Salty]

Think of btc as a big fuck you to government. How can you not put a huge value and price on that?

All from the comforts of your parent's basement!

[Uncle Salty]

Being able to hold wealth either in your head or with some letters on a scrap of paper is valuable in a world where pensions, bank accounts, houses, and items on your person are all open to confiscation.

Sometimes you need a currency that just lets you actually hold and spend your money however you want without constant threat of confiscation and taxation/theft.

And with the death of the anonymous numbered bank accounts, this was inevitable.

[FreeEnergy]

how is it possible that some electronic mumbo-jumbo digital wallet encryption number is worth $270 per number, but my ounce of silver that has been used for thousands years as money, has to be f-ing dug out of the ground and tediously refined is worth $22 per ounce?

this makes no sense. no sense at all.

it is possible the same way a company with little revenue that's loosing $64 million last quarter can be worth $13 billion (Twitter)
the same way pinterest is "evaluated" at $3.8 billion eventhough it never earned profit
the same way Facebook is valued at $120 Billion dollars.

MANIPULATION.

Bitcoin is NOT money. It is digits in the computer, manipulated by the banksters.

(I tell this because I know several projects in my area related to digital currency, a very high end programmer I know written a spec for one , and I've seen a spec and had a liberty of commenting on the other. All of them are backed by financially wealthy conglomerates).

When you see Bitcoin on TV and in Mass Media all the time, sometimes more than Gold or Silver, it means someone OK-ed it to be there and paying for it. It is either a test project of a digital world currency, an alphabet soup agency or some very wealthy elite jewish bankers. And because you can trace all previous transactions in it, it is VERY dangerous (and no private proxy or Tor will save you, trust me).

[Shami-Amourae]

how is it possible that some electronic mumbo-jumbo digital wallet encryption number is worth $270 per number, but my ounce of silver that has been used for thousands years as money, has to be f-ing dug out of the ground and tediously refined is worth $22 per ounce?

this makes no sense. no sense at all.

So do I finally have redemption on this forum?

[Ares]

it is possible the same way a company with little revenue that's loosing $64 million last quarter can be worth $13 billion (Twitter)

Everyone knows that the twitter IPO is a fucking joke. There's no way to monetize it.


the same way pinterest is "evaluated" at $3.8 billion eventhough it never earned profit

the same way Facebook is valued at $120 Billion dollars.

MANIPULATION.

Bold claims require bold evidence. I won't discount that there is manipulation. But I just haven't seen it in the Bitcoin or other alternative crypto-currency coins. Hell even Silver and Gold are manipulated to the point that you can LOSE money while they dump a trillion a year onto the market. You can't tell me that's not manipulation. Bitcoin resolves that by removing the issuing authority. All miners (all 3 peta-hashes, 3000+ TeraHash) has to agree that the coin you spent is legitimate. If it's not it gets discarded and never makes it onto the block chain. So it's even counterfeit proof. Something the banksters have been battling since even the gold and silver standard. Yet a cryptographic protocol solves that problem as it cannot be duplicated, and if you try to introduce your own it will be out right rejected.

Show me where Bitcoin is manipulated. If you can point it out in detail you'll have my full and honest attention.



Bitcoin is NOT money. It is digits in the computer, manipulated by the banksters.

So how can banksters manipulate a decentralized currency they do not issue or control again??


When you see Bitcoin on TV and in Mass Media all the time, sometimes more than Gold or Silver, it means someone OK-ed it to be there and paying for it. It is either a test project of a digital world currency, an alphabet soup agency or some very wealthy elite jewish bankers. And because you can trace all previous transactions in it, it is VERY dangerous (and no private proxy or Tor will save you, trust me).

Fair enough, but I'll need more than just a "trust me" to verify your claims. Even with bitcoin I went and read through the white paper, and even went to github and downloaded the source code to look through it to check for back doors. I didn't find any. So unless you have evidence, we're gonna need something more than a "trust me".

It currently has a 3 billion dollar market cap. That's one hell of an incentive to break or hack the protocol before it really takes off. There have been hackers, academics, and engineers who have tried and failed. How is it a bankster and incompetent government is going to do it? They can't even manage to roll out a health care website successfully, which isn't jack shit compared to protocol hacking which is extremely complex, not to mention that the hashing function of Bitcoin is even resistant to quantum computer brute force hacking.

Put up some evidence so we can trust you, as I haven't seen the Bitcoin protocol compromised, or Tor for that matter. With the new Dark Wallet going into development that promises even more fun stuff for the establishment to try and trace down.

[FreeEnergy]

So how can banksters manipulate a decentralized currency they do not issue or control again??


How do you know they don't have a control?

As I said, I know several guys who ponder it. They are smart enough to do it, but also have families and are smart enough to understand the consequences of making that kind of currency without approval from the very top.




and even went to github and downloaded the source code to look through it to check for back doors. I didn't find any. So unless you have evidence, we're gonna need something more than a "trust me".


windows or linux box? if it is windows , it has backdoors as high as a garage door.



It currently has a 3 billion dollar market cap. That's one hell of an incentive to break or hack the protocol before it really takes off. There have been hackers, academics, and engineers who have tried and failed. How is it a bankster and incompetent government is going to do it?


I don't know but I would suspect they control it from the very beginning by financing a bunch of programmers to design, develop and test it. Look, it is being promoted EVERYWHERE, like Facebook (CIA) and TWITTER (another TPTB entity).



They can't even manage to roll out a health care website successfully, which isn't jack shit compared to protocol hacking which is extremely complex, not to mention that the hashing function of Bitcoin is even resistant to quantum computer brute force hacking.


Just because a bunch of incompetent buerocrats effed website for us... ok, this way: to make a bitcoin code you need 3-5 high end developers to start. Healthcare.gov you need billions of money and a bunch of consulting companies basically wasting 99.9% of this money. That's a big difference in approach.




Put up some evidence so we can trust you, as I haven't seen the Bitcoin protocol compromised, or Tor for that matter. With the new Dark Wallet going into development that promises even more fun stuff for the establishment to try and trace down.

WHO DEVELOPED IT? GOT PROOF IT WAS SOME ANONYMOUS HACKER DUDE IN BRITAIN THAT'S ALL OVER TV? (and why , of all, Britain? City of London?)

That's all I need to say.

[Ares]

How do you know they don't have a control?

As I said, I know several guys who ponder it. They are smart enough to do it, but also have families and are smart enough to understand the consequences of making that kind of currency without approval from the very top.

Because I trade the coins and watch the market daily. Manipulation is visual. Pump and Dump, it's what they are known for. You can watch the transactions in real time. www.blockchain.info. It's under latest transactions. Can you see that with stocks? Metals? or even treasuries? Nope, you're trusting that the trading platform isn't compromised, and the government gives you the correct numbers yet thats openly available for Bitcoin for anyone to see. So manipulation would be found pretty quickly.


windows or linux box? if it is windows , it has backdoors as high as a garage door.

WTF are you talking about? Bitcoin isn't operating system dependent. It's a PROTOCOL.


I don't know but I would suspect they control it from the very beginning by financing a bunch of programmers to design, develop and test it. Look, it is being promoted EVERYWHERE, like Facebook (CIA) and TWITTER (another TPTB entity).

Uh huh, you've never seen the source code have you? It's OPEN to the public. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin There ya go. Have at it. I haven't seen anything promoted, developed, or even sponsored by government that has been this open.

The government won't even give enrollment numbers to their failed health care.gov web site. The BLS data is manipulated, the CPI, every thing is hidden. Yet Bitcoin is open. Don't see the glaring contrast eh?


Just because a bunch of incompetent buerocrats effed website for us... ok, this way: to make a bitcoin code you need 3-5 high end developers to start. Healthcare.gov you need billions of money and a bunch of consulting companies basically wasting 99.9% of this money. That's a big difference in approach.

Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this statement.


WHO DEVELOPED IT? GOT PROOF IT WAS SOME ANONYMOUS HACKER DUDE IN BRITAIN THAT'S ALL OVER TV? (and why , of all, Britain? City of London?)

That's all I need to say.

If you published a protocol that had the potential to topple some of the worlds most powerful banks and governments. Would you want your name attached to it? The individual went by Satoshi Nakamoto. Whether he was a real person, or a group of persons is unknown. But the source code for the protocol is posted above.

Show me the evidence of it being compromised, and manipulated. I can show you silver, gold, the BLS, and CPI, as well as social security manipulation. I have yet to see it in Bitcoin.

[FreeEnergy]

Tor has been compromised many times by fake Tor installations and by compromised computers it is installed on:
http://slashdot.org/story/13/08/04/2054208/half-of-tor-sites-compromised-including-tormail
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/how-nsa-got-anonymized-tor-users-8C11339814

you don't have to compromise protocol to get the details, all you need to do is compromise the transmitting computers.

[Ares]

Tor has been compromised many times by fake Tor installations and by compromised computers it is installed on:
http://slashdot.org/story/13/08/04/2054208/half-of-tor-sites-compromised-including-tormail
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/how-nsa-got-anonymized-tor-users-8C11339814

you don't have to compromise protocol to get the details, all you need to do is compromise the transmitting computers.

Tugging at strings....

So don't download Tor unless it's from here. https://www.torproject.org/download/download

And the java script they had was found and fixed BEFORE it was known that the FBI was the ones that wrote it. The Tor project found the hole, and patched it.

and from your article:


By attacking the browser itself, the NSA doesn't have to worry about the strong protection offered by Tor. Firefox fixed the flaw used in the case of the child pornography investigation, but undocumented bugs or vulnerabilities may exist in any Web browser or plug-in, which the NSA could exploit for its purposes.

So in other words, always make sure your browser is updated to the latest available. The default configuration for the Firefox Tor bundle is to have all extensions disabled, including java. Another option would be to go through an anonymous VPN service. Which is offered in the crypto currency of your choice. You use a screen name, and password and that's it. They don't ask for any personal or identifiable information and their logs are purged every 6 hours.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Bitcoins hash rate is more then 100x what it was in February. The computing power running the network goes up by 50% a month.

The government can compromise individual computers but they aren't going to stop this juggernaut.

[Son-of-Liberty]

New all time highs.

Bitstamp:279.25
Mt.Gox:283
BTC-e:267.5
BTCChina:1798.98
LTC/USD:3.84429

[Horn]

Just as jesus was delivered to us in 33 A.D. and then subsequently taken away.

Bitcoin has arrived just in the nick of time to save us all from eternal damnation.

5619

Next comes Rome, and the Lions.

[vacuum]

$308 at gox

If chad would had bought some BTC instead of posting a thread, he would have over 12% returns by now. (or it would have dropped 60% if he actually did buy some)

[Shami-Amourae]

The price is going to crash pretty hard. This is totally unsustainable. I'm going to try to get cash ready into an account and ready to load up when this thing implodes.

Litecoin has gone up about 33% just today. This is dangerous shit.

[Shami-Amourae]

Don't worry. All you anti-Bitcoin people will be able to say "told you so" in a few hours/days.

After this next crash I HEAVILY recommend you put some money down though. The next rise will be $500+ most likely.

[Shami-Amourae]

I think we just hit market top @ $321 BTC and $3.98 LTC. I dumped a lot.

I do think it's plausible it will go up higher though...

[EE_]

The price is going to crash pretty hard. This is totally unsustainable. I'm going to try to get cash ready into an account and ready to load up when this thing implodes.

Litecoin has gone up about 33% just today. This is dangerous shit.

Why does it have to crash? With the small finate supply of bitcoins and the population of the world, just waking up to the posibilities could take bitcoin into the stratosphere. You guys have sold me on bitcoin.
There's only two ways to crash bitcoin:
1. hackers find a way to destroy it, which is remotely small
2. the governments find a way to outlaw it's use

I'm afraid the future is here with digital currencies and a cashless society. As price climbs it will get more attention around the world. If central banks don't adopt bitcoin they could be destroyed. I'm sure the Jews are all over bitcoin already.

I see a problem for the federal government regarding taxes. Bitcoin is going to make possible for many businesses to stop paying taxes all together. The federal government is going to have to find new ways to tax people, or they will be crushed.

edit add: most likely the end of bitcoin will come with the global crash, WWIII and the mass die-off that is surely coming

[Shami-Amourae]

I'm talking about price. The price will have a big dip. Look at the chart.
http://s21.postimg.org/d0djkixit/11_7_2013_5_20_02_AM.jpg (http://s21.postimg.org/d0djkixit/11_7_2013_5_20_02_AM.jpg)

I do believe cryto-currencies are the future though. They will outperform precious metals in the short, medium, and long terms. One bitcoin could be worth a $1 million in five years for all I know.

[EE_]

I'm talking about price. The price will have a big dip. Look at the chart.
http://s21.postimg.org/d0djkixit/11_7_2013_5_20_02_AM.jpg (http://s21.postimg.org/d0djkixit/11_7_2013_5_20_02_AM.jpg)

I do believe cryto-currencies are the future though. They will outperform precious metals in the short, medium, and long terms. One bitcoin could be worth a $1 million in five years for all I know.

What's the smallest unit of bitcoin that can be traded? 1/1000, 1/100,000?


The price will have a big dip.
That may be wishful thinking if you're hoping to buy more?

[Shami-Amourae]

What's the smallest unit of bitcoin that can be traded? 1/1000, 1/100,000?

0.00000001 BTC

You can always use other crytocurrencies for smaller units too. It was specifically designed to be a one world currency for a long long time. Don't worry about it.



That may be wishful thinking if you're hoping to buy more?
I want to buy a lot more. I feel like shit since I didn't have more. I used to have over 400 BTC at one point but sold them all off around $4-8. I feel dumb as shit for doing that.

I've been so focused on other things I should have been paying attention to this. I did have a lot of Litecoins I've been holding onto, but no Bitcoins. I've been a very large proponent of Litecoins over Bitcoins for over a year now. Bitcoin prices are more stable like Gold and Litecoin prices are erratic like Silver. It's sort of how you like have Silver purists.

In the future, I plan on doing 50/50 Bitcoin and Litecoin.

[EE_]

0.00000001 BTC

You can always use other crytocurrencies for smaller units too. It was specifically designed to be a one world currency for a long long time. Don't worry about it.


I want to buy a lot more. I feel like shit since I didn't have more. I used to have over 400 BTC at one point but sold them all off around $4-8. I feel dumb as shit for doing that.

I've been so focused on other things I should have been paying attention to this. I did have a lot of Litecoins I've been holding onto, but no Bitcoins. I've been a very large proponent of Litecoins over Bitcoins for over a year now. Bitcoin prices are more stable like Gold and Litecoin prices are erratic like Silver. It's sort of how you like have Silver purists.

In the future, I plan on doing 50/50 Bitcoin and Litecoin.

So actually there are 100 million X 12 million bitcoin, or 1,200,000,000,000,000, or (one quadrillion, 200 trillion) units in existance at the moment.
If each bitcoin was valued at 1 million dollars, each 1/100,000,000 fractional unit would be 1 penny

So the part I'm trying to wrap my mind around, is that everyone says the number of bitcoins are a finite amount, yet broken down into it's smallest fractional units, there are more fractional units then all the wealth (dollar value) on the planet combined.
1 quadrillion, 200 trillion! How is that a finite amount?

Once all bitcoins are done being mined, this number will almost double.

[gunDriller]

how is it possible that some electronic mumbo-jumbo digital wallet encryption number is worth $270 per number, but my ounce of silver that has been used for thousands years as money, has to be f-ing dug out of the ground and tediously refined is worth $22 per ounce?

this makes no sense. no sense at all.


world is obsessed with high-tech.


when Kunstler went to Google to talk about economic collapse ... let's just say he was speaking to the wrong audience.

[chad]

i should buy some and crash the whole market. general, you with me?

[Ares]

Don't worry. All you anti-Bitcoin people will be able to say "told you so" in a few hours/days.

After this next crash I HEAVILY recommend you put some money down though. The next rise will be $500+ most likely.

Agreed, I think most of this run up was with China getting on board and the huge potential they have. 1 Billion people, just imagine a fraction of that starting and actively using bitcoin.

Get your gains when you can. :)

[Ares]

So the part I'm trying to wrap my mind around, is that everyone says the number of bitcoins are a finite amount, yet broken down into it's smallest units, there are more units then all the wealth on the planet combined.
1 quadrillion, 200 trillion! How is that a finite amount?

The full unit of account is finite. Gold for example. Finite, yeah there may be some additional reserves found. But the planet isn't making gold. You find one ounce, and you can divide it out by grams, Decigram, Centigram, and Milligram. So you can divide it up into smaller units. That's all Bitcoin is doing. It can just be divided smaller and much easier than you can with gold.

[EE_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouo7Q6Cf_yc

[Terry853]

Terry? did you read about the guy who bought some bitcoins in 2009 for $25.00? it went this year to $800,000 plus.

Vyep

[sirgonzo420]

The full unit of account is finite. Gold for example. Finite, yeah there may be some additional reserves found. But the planet isn't making gold. You find one ounce, and you can divide it out by grams, Decigram, Centigram, and Milligram. So you can divide it up into smaller units. That's all Bitcoin is doing. It can just be divided smaller and much easier than you can with gold.

I know that Ares knows, but this is for those who don't:


For example, with FRNs, the highest realistically usable denomination is a $100 bill, so if a $100 is the highest single unit:

$100

$10

$1

$0.1

$0.01


With bitcoin:

1

0.1

0.01

0.001

0.0001

0.00001

0.000001

0.0000001

0.00000001


So, with 21 million bitcoins, there are more usable currency units than there is with fiat cash.

[Ares]

I know that Ares knows, but this is for those who don't:


For example, with FRNs, the highest realistically usable denomination is a $100 bill, so if a $100 is the highest single unit:

$100

$50

$20

$10

$5

$1

$0.1

$0.01


With bitcoin:

1

0.1

0.01

0.001

0.0001

0.00001

0.000001

0.0000001

0.00000001


So, with 21 million bitcoins, there are more usable currency units than there is with fiat cash.

Fixed it for ya. :)

[Shami-Amourae]

Don't forget Bitcoin isn't the only cryptocurrency. I believe firmly that Bitcoin will not be the ONLY currency, but most likely will be the main one since it's the first.

If you're worried about the supply of Bitcoins, what makes you think Litecoins wont pick up their slack, or any other currency?

What we are seeing is free market currency. This is it. This is what we've been waiting for.

No government cannot stop it.

[chad]

Don't forget Bitcoin isn't the only cryptocurrency. I believe firmly that Bitcoin will not be the ONLY currency, but most likely will be the main one since it's the first.

If you're worried about the supply of Bitcoins, what makes you think Litecoins wont pick up their slack, or any other currency?

What we are seeing is free market currency. This is it. This is what we've been waiting for.

No government cannot stop it.

i just can't get past the 'needs electricity to work' part. i should get past it, but i can't.

[Shami-Amourae]

i just can't get past the 'needs electricity to work' part. i should get past it, but i can't.

Without electricity nothing will work. If there's no electricity, Gold and Silver will be worthless. The most valuable things will be water, food, guns/ammo, medicine, and so forth

Most people don't know what the value of Gold and Silver are. Less than 1% of Americans even own any in non-jewelry form.

Reality is now digital. The past is analog. Wait till we start seriously merging with machines in the next 10-20 years. There is no going back unless there is complete and total collapse, and I don't think that will happen. Not in my lifetime at least.

[chad]

Without electricity nothing will work. If there's no electricity, Gold and Silver will be worthless. The most valuable things will be water, food, guns/ammo, medicine, and so forth

Most people don't know what the value of Gold and Silver are. Less than 1% of Americans even own any in non-jewelry form.

dude, now you are smoking your own bitcoins. put the bitcoin pipe down.

[Shami-Amourae]

dude, now you are smoking your own bitcoins. put the bitcoin pipe down.

I don't own any Bitcoins.
:(

[madfranks]

The price is going to crash pretty hard. This is totally unsustainable. I'm going to try to get cash ready into an account and ready to load up when this thing implodes.

Litecoin has gone up about 33% just today. This is dangerous shit.


Don't worry. All you anti-Bitcoin people will be able to say "told you so" in a few hours/days.

After this next crash I HEAVILY recommend you put some money down though. The next rise will be $500+ most likely.

I agree that there's going to be a correction, but I don't see it until BTC $400 and LTC around $5-6. I'll sell 1/4 of my holdings at those prices and wait for the correction.

[Twisted Titan]

cclesiastes 9:11

King James Version (KJV)11*I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.<<<==>>>
how is it possible that some electronic mumbo-jumbo digital wallet encryption number is worth $270 per number, but my ounce of silver that has been used for thousands years as money, has to be f-ing dug out of the ground and tediously refined is worth $22 per ounce?

this makes no sense. no sense at all.

[Shami-Amourae]

I agree that there's going to be a correction, but I don't see it until BTC $400 and LTC around $5-6. I'll sell 1/4 of my holdings at those prices and wait for the correction.

I probably should have used the word correction. That's what I meant. I sold half and I'm not selling the other half at any price.

[Blink]

No government cannot stop it.



Its these absolutes that set off my warning flags. Why do posters that support BTC keep repeating the phrase, "government cannot stop it"? Really, how the f*ck do "you" know what they can and cannot do? If BTC was marketed as just another form of conducting business on a global level, then maybe, I'd seriously look into it. But, no matter where I go, the mantra of how government can't stop this is the prevalent theme. Now, this "untouchable" is setting up ATM's and exchanges right in the face of the bankers/government in complete conflict with their controlling interests, and they're (cabal) letting it happen. Sorry, things that make me go hmmmm just went up a notch or two..........

[chad]

Its these absolutes that set off my warning flags. Why do posters that support BTC keep repeating the phrase, "government cannot stop it"? Really, how the f*ck do "you" know what they can and cannot do? If BTC was marketed as just another form of conducting business on a global level, then maybe, I'd seriously look into it. But, no matter where I go, the mantra of how government can't stop this is the prevalent theme. Now, this "untouchable" is setting up ATM's and exchanges right in the face of the bankers/government in complete conflict with their controlling interests, and they're (cabal) letting it happen. Sorry, things that make me go hmmmm just went up a notch or two..........

it's based on switches, hubs, computers, and electricity. trust me, government can stop it.

[gunDriller]

although i don't plan on buying any Bitcoins, it is interesting to see a market that, as far as we know, is not raided by the Cartel.

the jobs numbers came out at 8:30 Eastern this morning. they were 'positive' (lower initial unemployment claims), so the supposed chance of tapering increases - and so down PM prices went (the gospel according to H. Organ).

i wonder if today will be a double-waterfall day.

[Ares]

Its these absolutes that set off my warning flags. Why do posters that support BTC keep repeating the phrase, "government cannot stop it"? Really, how the f*ck do "you" know what they can and cannot do? If BTC was marketed as just another form of conducting business on a global level, then maybe, I'd seriously look into it. But, no matter where I go, the mantra of how government can't stop this is the prevalent theme. Now, this "untouchable" is setting up ATM's and exchanges right in the face of the bankers/government in complete conflict with their controlling interests, and they're (cabal) letting it happen. Sorry, things that make me go hmmmm just went up a notch or two..........

Ok, so how do you stop people from ignoring you?

That's all people are doing who engage in bitcoin transactions. They are sideling government approved credit and fiat. The government can't stop that. If they regulate Bitcoins to the point where they become worthless, there will be another crypto currency to takes its place. Or all the transactions will take place in the dark web where they cannot trace, and will have no idea what transpired.

Twisted Titan said it best:
The greatest threat to the state is when the people figure out they can exist without them.

With Bitcoin, you no longer need the state, and since the internet is GLOBAL, there isn't going to be one country thats going to tell another how to run their affairs. U.S. going to dictate to China to stop a Chinese individual from mining, or doing transactions in bitcoin? You would have to have every country on the planet agree to shut off the internet. That's just asking for open rebellion on a global scale.

[Blink]

The government can't stop that.

There is that absolute again. Repeat, repeat ,repeat........



If they regulate Bitcoins to the point where they become worthless, there will be another crypto currency to takes its place.


Now, thats a statement I can believe.




Or all the transactions will take place in the dark web where they cannot trace, and will have no idea what transpired.

Twisted Titan said it best:

The greatest threat to the state is when the people realize that they don't need them.

With Bitcoin, you no longer need the state, and since the internet is GLOBAL, there isn't going to be one country thats going to tell another how to run their affairs. You would have to have every country on the planet agree to shut off the internet. That's just asking for open rebellion on a global scale.


Twisted had it right, but, I don't think he was necessarily referring to BTC. Asking for an open rebellion on a global scale. Hmmm, don't you think maybe that is what they want?


Sorry, but, people that support BTC seem to be under the impression that they can slap the tiger in the face repeatedly and nothing is going to happen. I'm not here to start an argument for/against BTC per say, just trying to understand this invincibility that surrounds it........

[EE_]

There is that absolute again. Repeat, repeat ,repeat........





Now, thats a statement I can believe.






Twisted had it right, but, I don't think he was necessarily referring to BTC. Asking for an open rebellion on a global scale. Hmmm, don't you think maybe that is what they want?


Sorry, but, people that support BTC seem to be under the impression that they can slap the tiger in the face repeatedly and nothing is going to happen. I'm not here to start an argument for/against BTC per say, just trying to understand this invincibility that surrounds it........

I believe government will be involved in digital currencies eventually, but that doesn't mean you can't get rich before that happens.
I personally have no use for bitcoins other then to profit on the run up, but I can see how law breakers, tax evaders, criminals and terrorists do have a use for them.

[Ares]

There is that absolute again. Repeat, repeat ,repeat........

And I'll ask again, how do you stop people from ignoring you? Governments have fallen when people just ignore them, don't contribute or outright revolt. At least with BTC, it ignores their currency and people are free to barter with whatever they choose. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to conduct all transactions in dollars or Bitcoins.


Twisted had it right, but, I don't think he was necessarily referring to BTC. Asking for an open rebellion on a global scale. Hmmm, don't you think maybe that is what they want?


Sorry, but, people that support BTC seem to be under the impression that they can slap the tiger in the face repeatedly and nothing is going to happen. I'm not here to start an argument for/against BTC per say, just trying to understand this invincibility that surrounds it........

Twisted wasn't directly referring to BTC's. That's correct, but the analogy applies because people are realizing they do not need banker created government assisted "money" for mediums of exchange. That is why Bitcoin is a powerful thing. It goes beyond the currency and shoots straight to the heart of the IDEA. The idea being the medium of exchange can be anything we want it to be. We do not need a middleman.

The tiger you refer to is toothless and clawless when it comes to a global phenomenon on which they do no directly control. As I said previously, how is the U.S. going to dictate to Europe, Russia, China, or India on what they can and cannot use for their currencies? Germany is a huge BTC hotbed at the moment. There's an entire town in Berlin that uses nothing but bitcoins for transactions.

[mick silver]

thank you again
it is possible the same way a company with little revenue that's loosing $64 million last quarter can be worth $13 billion (Twitter)
the same way pinterest is "evaluated" at $3.8 billion eventhough it never earned profit
the same way Facebook is valued at $120 Billion dollars.

MANIPULATION.

Bitcoin is NOT money. It is digits in the computer, manipulated by the banksters.

(I tell this because I know several projects in my area related to digital currency, a very high end programmer I know written a spec for one , and I've seen a spec and had a liberty of commenting on the other. All of them are backed by financially wealthy conglomerates).

When you see Bitcoin on TV and in Mass Media all the time, sometimes more than Gold or Silver, it means someone OK-ed it to be there and paying for it. It is either a test project of a digital world currency, an alphabet soup agency or some very wealthy elite jewish bankers. And because you can trace all previous transactions in it, it is VERY dangerous (and no private proxy or Tor will save you, trust me).

[mick silver]

I think we just hit market top @ $321 BTC and $3.98 LTC. I dumped a lot.

I do think it's plausible it will go up higher though... so what makes this any better then playing the stock market ....... up an down ..

[Shami-Amourae]

so what makes this any better then playing the stock market ....... up an down ..

It's not rigged by bankers. It's pure free market. You can spend the Bitcoins too.

[mick silver]

thats the same way i also feel . they made it they can stop it ... banker have a hand in this an so does the the gov boys , theres no way they would let this go on if they are no getting a cut are a new way to bank...
Its these absolutes that set off my warning flags. Why do posters that support BTC keep repeating the phrase, "government cannot stop it"? Really, how the f*ck do "you" know what they can and cannot do? If BTC was marketed as just another form of conducting business on a global level, then maybe, I'd seriously look into it. But, no matter where I go, the mantra of how government can't stop this is the prevalent theme. Now, this "untouchable" is setting up ATM's and exchanges right in the face of the bankers/government in complete conflict with their controlling interests, and they're (cabal) letting it happen. Sorry, things that make me go hmmmm just went up a notch or two..........

[mick silver]

so what do you use to BUY bitcoin with ? is that also made up on someone computer?

[madfranks]

Now, this "untouchable" is setting up ATM's and exchanges right in the face of the bankers/government in complete conflict with their controlling interests, and they're (cabal) letting it happen. Sorry, things that make me go hmmmm just went up a notch or two..........

"They" are scared shitless of bitcoin, but due to their antiquated bureaucratic organization, they are slow to move and slow to respond, while technology and the markets are dynamic and quick to move. We haven't yet seen their full response to this movement.

[Ares]

"They" are scared shitless of bitcoin, but due to their antiquated bureaucratic organization, they are slow to move and slow to respond, while technology and the markets are dynamic and quick to move. We haven't yet seen their full response to this movement.

That actually is something I am afraid of. The government is a sledge hammer, and everything looks like a nail. They'll most likely come down too hard and drive it away from our shores. So the only way to deal in Bitcoins then will be through either Dark Web, (Tor) or Dark Wallet, whenever it comes online.

[mick silver]

so tell me what you use to buy bitcoins with again i miss that part ? are do you just make a number up an buy

[Ares]

so tell me what you use to buy bitcoins with again i miss that part ? are do you just make a number up an buy

How about going to google (startpage.com so to make yourself anonymous to google.) and educating yourself? No one is a better teacher than you. For a start you can go to bitcoinstore.com https://www.bitcoinstore.com/

But suffice it to say there are a number of businesses, organizations, and people who accept Bitcoin for products and services. Just this week there was an OEM manufacturer in Australia who started accepting Bitcoins. A magazine publisher in Brazil setup a paywall for bitcoins.

But if you want to see who buys what in bitcoin, just do a simple internet search.

[mick silver]

so your telling i can buy bitcoins with my paper money . will i can use that right now to go to the store an buy what i need without anyone knowing what i just got . plus i have what i need without a computer . if something was to happen what i have stored today will be the new bitcoin . i can hold it , see it , smell it , taste it , it not made up and be control by others . a true silver an gold person has a feeling of trust in something they can hold in there hands . thats something i can never trust in something that i have no control of holding . it a number made up by someone and can be control be someone other then me

[Ares]

so your telling i can buy bitcoins with my paper money . will i can use that right now to go to the store an buy what i need without anyone knowing what i just got . plus i have what i need without a computer . if something was to happen what i have stored today will be the new bitcoin . i can hold it , see it , smell it , taste it , it not made up and be control by others . a true silver an gold person has a feeling of trust in something they can hold in there hands . thats something i can never trust in something that i have no control of holding . it a number made up by someone and can be control be someone other then me

Even Silver and Gold is manipulated. You can't tell me that they can pump out 1 Trillion+ a year for 5 years running and yet somehow have 1300 +/- spot price for gold not be manipulation.

The reason Bitcoin is trusted is because it's open. You can read the source code yourself. It's protected by an incredibly powerful and robust encryption algorithm. Cannot be duplicated or counterfeited. Even Gold has that problem, gold plated tungsten anyone?

Nope, I can't touch it, smell it, taste it, or even see it. But it's there in a digital form. The market dictates what it's worth, not a government or a bank.

It's free to rise or fall on it's own merits. Human beings as a species hasn't had that ability to have the market decide the value of their currency since before the time of bankers.

[madfranks]

so your telling i can buy bitcoins with my paper money . will i can use that right now to go to the store an buy what i need without anyone knowing what i just got . plus i have what i need without a computer . if something was to happen what i have stored today will be the new bitcoin . i can hold it , see it , smell it , taste it , it not made up and be control by others . a true silver an gold person has a feeling of trust in something they can hold in there hands . thats something i can never trust in something that i have no control of holding . it a number made up by someone and can be control be someone other then me

You're right mick, and I'll say it again: bitcoins are backed by NOTHING. They are pure numbers, the results of mathematical formulas. Trading paper dollars for bitcoins is voting against money backed by nothing that is controlled/issued/set by the banking cartel, and voting for money backed by nothing that is open and free with a price set by the market.

But why do bitcoins even have a value at all if they are backed by nothing and are merely a number on a ledger? Because, a medium of exchange happens to be a very valuable thing, because it makes economic activity and calculation easier than it would be without it. Thus bitcoin derives it's value because it provides a medium of exchange that is is many ways superior to the current government money paradigm.

[Ares]

Mick,

As bitcoin grows in adoption it's value will increase due to it's nature of having a finite supply. No more than 21 million coins will ever be created.

Check this out, a subway franchise owner in Russia just announced that they are accepting Bitcoins for payment of a Subway sandwich. Not only that, they'll give you a 10% discount for paying in bitcoins. Probably because they don't have to pay a credit processing facility, and for now saves on sales tax.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYJPB2SIMAADeVl.jpg

full article: http://www.coindesk.com/subway-sandwich-russia-bitcoin-payments/

[Ares]

I want to buy a lot more. I feel like shit since I didn't have more. I used to have over 400 BTC at one point but sold them all off around $4-8. I feel dumb as shit for doing that.

Imagine how the guy feels who paid 10,000 BTC for a couple of pizza's? Current price at 300 dollars a coin is 3,000,0000 FRN's.

[Horn]

Because, a medium of exchange happens to be a very valuable thing, because it makes economic activity and calculation easier than it would be without it. Thus bitcoin derives it's value because it provides a medium of exchange that is is many ways superior to the current government money paradigm.

Because there is virtually no intrinsic value whatsoever, it will never become a currency.

Precious metals have real world contracts tied against them for a balance.

The power of Bitcoin to divide itself does not work, until the fractional unit has become the standard.

It has no time as a denominator, and is the biggest joke of the century, only working to increase dollar velocity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqeSUAlI5uI

I could poop out imaginary golden goose eggs once a minute and sell them to you, until I die.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Bitcoin has some very important advantages. The lack of intrinsic value is not a disadvantage. Fiat dollars have no intrinsic value--and people everywhere accept them. The big advantage is that they cannot be created out of thin air, so they are not subject to monetary phenomena such as hyperinflation. There is no central bank issuing them. No banksters can conjure them up out of thin air and dilute their value and steal your life savings. Governments despise bitcoin because it would be extremely challenging to find a way to tax them, and since people don't keep them in banks, very hard to seize them or freeze your assets. Bitcoins are also an escape hatch from 'capital controls'.

I think the reason they are exploding in value now is because China has capital controls to maintain the low value of the Yuan relative to the dollar, and the big banks have announved that as of 11/17/13 they will no longer do international wire transfers out of the US. And think about how hard it would be to leave the country with a stash of cash or gold or silver coins. No such difficulty with Bitcoins. Just load your wallet up to the cloud, and get on the plane and go. They can search you all they want--they won't find anything. And when you get to Singapore, you can buy gold with your bitcoins, an no one is the wiser. In that sense, they are preferable to precious metals.


Hatha

[Horn]

Fiat dollars have no intrinsic value--and people everywhere accept them.

People enjoy putting them into a box and watching the colors they generate.

http://www.fraudfighter.com/Portals/76574/images/New%20UV-16.jpg

So you cannot create them from thin air.

The finite existence of Bitcoin (while seen by its holders as a benefit) is in fact its main achillies heel towards becoming any type of currency, and obviously from the rise, not that good a barter chip either.

Unless you like bartering with priceless works of art.

Its just a dollar velocity generator, and only has intrinsic value to Bernanke.

[Ares]

People enjoy putting them into a box and watching the colors they generate.

http://www.fraudfighter.com/Portals/76574/images/New%20UV-16.jpg

So you cannot create them from thin air.

The finite existence of Bitcoin (while seen by its holders as a benefit) is in fact its main achillies heel towards becoming any type of currency, and obviously from the rise, not that good a barter chip either.

Unless you like bartering with priceless works of art.

Its just a dollar velocity generator, and only has intrinsic value to Bernanke.

But then you get into the divisible part of Bitcoins. A single bitcoin can be divided 100 million times. So yes it is a viable solution. So what if a single bitcoin reaches the value of 1 Trillion equivalent dollars. You're pay check would be something like 0.000000067

That's just an example. It could divide down to even smaller units of account, and the white paper says it can be divided smaller if the bitcoin community deems it necessary.

[mick silver]

Trading paper dollars for bitcoins is voting against money backed by nothing that is controlled/issued/set by the banking cartel, and voting for money backed by nothing that is open and free with a price set by the market. .................. ...................... the whole point of getting what i need now to live when stuff does an will go wrong , i used there paper money now by voting with stuff i can buy stored and sell if an when the time comes and thats not made up . i know what your saying that you can buy stuff with bitcoins i have no trouble with that , it the way bitcoin came about ... someone made it up ... there no more value there then the made up buck . i am here to say it like it is , theres a reason why they let this go . they want a chip are some thing to work that would let you trade with . hey hand me your gold an silver and i will give you some paper so you can go an trade , just who did this . didnt the usa make the internet if so they can control it . nsa looks around the world for stuff . there computer are i would say 10 are more years a head of what we all have at home . hell i dont know shit about computers but i know that they can will control the net if needed

[Ares]

They can't control the net like you think. It would be national networks that would get controlled. Goes back to my previous point. How is the U.S. going to dictate to China, Russia, etc. on what mediums of exchanges are allowed or not?

Banks and Governments do not, and cannot control Bitcoins. There is no central issuing authority. What backs bitcoin? Trust in it's ability not to be inflated into infinity, trust in it's ability to be a quick seemless medium of exchange as if borders did not exist. Trust in it's ability to be secure against counterfeiting.

As far as a chip implant?? Good luck with that I say. Most of the early adopters are hard core Libertarians or gold bugs. Even the earlier proponents are Anarcho Capitalist. Being mandated or told to do something by someone of perceived authority is an insult to their philosophy.

[mick silver]

Directed history? The top men in banking and industry want a world currency. John http://www.thedailybell.com/Maynard Keynes, the most influential economist of post-World War II decades, suggested that something called the bancor be formed, perhaps based on a basket of currencies. This is just what is happening. The BRICs, so named by a Goldman Sachs banker, are partially behind the destabilization of the dollar. The BRIC phenomenon took off almost as soon as the acronym was presented about a decade ago. In fact, the US

[mick silver]

we had an international currency that worked reasonably well for centuries. It was called GOLD! Only problem ( for the banksters and goverNMEnts that is) is that it is hard to counterfeit.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Directed history? The top men in banking and industry want a world currency. John http://www.thedailybell.com/Maynard Keynes, the most influential economist of post-World War II decades, suggested that something called the bancor be formed, perhaps based on a basket of currencies. This is just what is happening. The BRICs, so named by a Goldman Sachs banker, are partially behind the destabilization of the dollar. The BRIC phenomenon took off almost as soon as the acronym was presented about a decade ago. In fact, the US

The difference is Mick, that they aren't pulling the strings of Bitcoin yet. If they ever do though the observant will notice and there should be a time period where it is possible to exit to something else.

[Ares]

we had an international currency that worked reasonably well for centuries. It was called GOLD! Only problem ( for the banksters and goverNMEnts that is) is that it is hard to counterfeit.

It's also a rigid system, and open to abuse by governments and banks. We end up with the same problems we have today.

And it is not hard to counterfeit. Ask Germany or China if Gold is really that hard to counterfeit because I remember it reading either last year or the year before China got a shitload of gold plated tungsten bars.

[Horn]

The power of Bitcoin to divide itself does not work, until the fractional unit has become the standard.

Currency needs inflation, or it will die, to do that it starts from a base amount than adds.

You can't save any cents, if you have 0 or 0.00000> to begin with.

As exemplified in Tulip Bulb hoarding, a Barter system is only as good as it's used.

Finite is the reason once the cut and run starts, it doesn't stop until its crashed through any cents of a floor.

[Horn]

we had an international currency that worked reasonably well for centuries. It was called GOLD! Only problem ( for the banksters and goverNMEnts that is) is that it is hard to counterfeit.

I am agreeing with HT, it was used until they sucked up all the silver mercury dimes from the U.S.

[7th trump]

I am agreeing with HT, it was used until they sucked up all the silver mercury dimes from the U.S.

Just going to throw this out there....Hitler, Lincoln and Kennedy issued non-debt paper currency.
Can non-debt currency be inflated and deflated?

[sirgonzo420]

Just going to throw this out there....Hitler, Lincoln and Kennedy issued non-debt paper currency.
Can non-debt currency be inflated and deflated?

Bitcoin is rapidly INFLATING right now.

For example, approximately every 10 minutes, 25 bitcoins is mined. This prize of 25 bitcoins consists of new, fresh, virgin bitcoins that are created when the block is processed.

about 1/2 of all the bitcoins that will be mined, have been mined, and the remainder of them are being mined right now, with 25 of them created about every 10 minutes. Every four years the reward (now 25 btc, which is halved from the original reward of 50 btc) gets halved. After that, the reward for processing transactions will be from fees included in the transactions. Right now, the block rewards subsidizes the system, so that the fees are currently very low to facilitate adoption.

This currency is government by mathematics.


For a concise technical explanation, see the Bitcoin whitepaper, which was written and released by Bitcoin's creator before the software was released.

http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

[Horn]

This currency is government by mathematics

Deflationary mathematics one might add.

A bitcoin world is one without any children.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4DCxAi020

[Uncle Salty]

The only people bummed by btc's ascent are those that have no satoshi.

[Blink]

And I'll ask again, how do you stop people from ignoring you? Governments have fallen when people just ignore them, don't contribute or outright revolt. At least with BTC, it ignores their currency and people are free to barter with whatever they choose. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to conduct all transactions in dollars or Bitcoins.

The amount of people actually using BTC at this time is minimal, so as yet, not a real threat (and thats "if" they aren't the ones already controlling it). On the other note you mentioned, the government hasn't fallen because the majority still follow the rule of law and I don't see any signs of it changing anytime soon. Btw, people on the whole (at least in NA) don't "barter" as a daily rule and have been conditioned to accept a paperless currency (CC/debit/iphones) over the last couple of decades. This is the culmination of that program, total digital world wide currency. Now, thats my opinion and others are free to decide for themselves, but for now, I see it as a pump and dump bubble and like EE_ said, a good way of making a lot of fiat in the short term. It does not behave like any stable currency I've ever seen........




Twisted wasn't directly referring to BTC's. That's correct, but the analogy applies because people are realizing they do not need banker created government assisted "money" for mediums of exchange. That is why Bitcoin is a powerful thing. It goes beyond the currency and shoots straight to the heart of the IDEA. The idea being the medium of exchange can be anything we want it to be. We do not need a middleman.

True to an extent. I think you're thinking that America is as enlightened as the posters on this site are and sadly that is not the case. I talk to whacks of people that don't have a clue about BTC or money in general. J6P doesn't understand "mediums of exchange" or anything even remotely intelligent enough to call understanding. The idea, in a perfect world would work perfectly. The world is a far cry from perfect though.......



The tiger you refer to is toothless and clawless when it comes to a global phenomenon on which they do no directly control. As I said previously, how is the U.S. going to dictate to Europe, Russia, China, or India on what they can and cannot use for their currencies? Germany is a huge BTC hotbed at the moment. There's an entire town in Berlin that uses nothing but bitcoins for transactions.


Thats only if you don't believe that they are all working all together on this.

Side note. What America can't control, it attacks and kills.......

[Son-of-Liberty]

Currency needs inflation, or it will die, to do that it starts from a base amount than adds.

You can't save any cents, if you have 0 or 0.00000> to begin with.

As exemplified in Tulip Bulb hoarding, a Barter system is only as good as it's used.

Finite is the reason once the cut and run starts, it doesn't stop until its crashed through any cents of a floor.

There are definitely some problems with a currency with a limited supply. However there are many competitors to Bitcoin and one of them may take Bitcoins place or many of them could be used simultaneously. Sort of like a Tri-digital standard to compare to gold, silver and copper.

Primecoin for example does not have a hard cap.

[vacuum]

Someone just bought 431 bitcoins at $300.00 a piece.

Or maybe that was just a wall being extinguished and they just show it all as one transaction

[Horn]

Someone just bought 431 bitcoins at $300.00 a piece.

You might be able to afford a year's salary to a Fire Dept. Chief in Detroit with that kind of dough.

[EE_]

I know that Ares knows, but this is for those who don't:


For example, with FRNs, the highest realistically usable denomination is a $100 bill, so if a $100 is the highest single unit:

$100

$10

$1

$0.1

$0.01


With bitcoin:

1

0.1

0.01

0.001

0.0001

0.00001

0.000001

0.0000001

0.00000001


So, with 21 million bitcoins, there are more usable currency units than there is with fiat cash.

I say Bitcoin is a self-inflating currency that is infinate. If the Federal Reserve created this much currency, you'd need dump truck loads to buy a loaf of bread!

Since bitcoin is a mathmatical equation on a computer, what's to say bitcoin couldn't be broken down into smaller fractionals at some point?

Right now there will be 2.1 quadrillion currency units.
If 3 more 0's get added you would have 2.1 quintillion units
add three more and you get 2.1 sextillion

12 zeros = trillion
15 zeros = quadrillion
18 zeros = quintillion
21 sextillion
24 septillion
27 octillion
30 nonillion
33 decillion
36 undecillion
39 duodecillion
42 tredecillion
45 quattuordecillion
48 quindecillion
51 sexdecillion
54 septendecillion
57 octodecillion
60 novemdecillion
63 vigintillion

note: none of this means you can't get rich before bitcoin implodes

[Hitch]

My question is how many geeks do we have on this forum? I bet we have more than enough smart computer guys here, to create our own competing currency. gsuscoins. We all get in at the bottom and ride the wave up. Then cash out as millionaires into gold and silver. Thoughts?

[madfranks]

My question is how many geeks do we have on this forum? I bet we have more than enough smart computer guys here, to create our own competing currency. gsuscoins. We all get in at the bottom and ride the wave up. Then cash out as millionaires into gold and silver. Thoughts?

There won't be anywhere near enough demand from GSUScoins to make one cent. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage

[sirgonzo420]

My question is how many geeks do we have on this forum? I bet we have more than enough smart computer guys here, to create our own competing currency. gsuscoins. We all get in at the bottom and ride the wave up. Then cash out as millionaires into gold and silver. Thoughts?


Funny you should suggest that....


there was a "Solidcoin".

http://www.bitcoin-xchange.org/solidcoinlogo.png

[Hitch]

Funny you should suggest that....


there was a "Solidcoin".

http://www.bitcoin-xchange.org/solidcoinlogo.png

:) Cheers my friend, that is funny. I sure wish I could go back to my old username. I like solid better than hitcher. Oh well, lessons learned in life, I suppose.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Funny you should suggest that....


there was a "Solidcoin".

http://www.bitcoin-xchange.org/solidcoinlogo.png

There still is a Solidcoin. It is traded on MCX now.

https://mcxnow.com/exchange/SC

[sirgonzo420]

:) Cheers my friend, that is funny. I sure wish I could go back to my old username. I like solid better than hitcher. Oh well, lessons learned in life, I suppose.

You'll always be solid to me.

*cue warm fuzzies*

I remember more than a couple of your usernames, hell I think I know your first name, but you are "solid" in my book.