Poor mans, garbage can beer #2

[Libertytree]

This is my second batch of making 20+ gallons with this system. My goal is to make large batches for as cheap as possible, nothing fancy, just very drinkable everyday beer. That's not to say I want to throw a bunch of ingredients together and call it beer, I want quality that's as good or better than Bud but at 1/4th the price, $5 a case. I'm still learning and tweaking ingredients and production methods but I'm almost there or at least well on my way.

I did some different things for this batch vs the last one. I used 3 different types of hops, #1 is that I used 4oz Northern Brewer hops as my primary bittering hops, boiled for 1 hour. #2, I combined 4oz of Tettnang and Hallertau hops/2oz each and put them in the boil for the last 20 mins of the boil, those hops are for flavor and aroma but add some bittering too. The last batch I only used Northern Brewer hops but found out that the old school Budweiser also used the Tettnang and Hallertau hops and I wanted to experiment with my new found hops knowledge. It's mind blowing all the info on hops there is.

The other thing I added was the use of a hydrometer, the last batch I think I made a newbie mistake by assuming the fermentation had finished when it had not and I bottled too early. Brew Tech clued me in and prompted me to buy the hydrometer, it'll let me know accurately when its finished fermenting as well as let me know what the alcohol content is. The last batch was good but this batch will hopefully be even better. Here's the complete recipe.

12lbs Amber liquid malt extract
4oz Northern Brewer hops
2oz Tettnang hops
2oz Hallertau hops
20 cups sugar
55gms Safale s-04 yeast
21 gals total
Hydrometer reading of 1.040

Come bottling day I'll add 1/2 cup sugar per 5 gals for priming.

Right now I have to do 2 boils to make this happen but by the time the next batch needs to be made I'll have saved enough $ to get a very large cook pot and a propane burner, cutting my time in half on brew day. I'll also have better control of the heat and not have to worry so much about boil overs on the stove.

Also, for the next batch I'm going to upgrade my yeast and start reusing it.

[Spectrism]

This is a good thing to know. I have been experimenting with making wine and haven't yet ventured to the beer side.

[Libertytree]

From the little I have gleaned...beer is a little more work and is ready to drink fairly quickly, while wine is easier on the front end but more time before it's ready to drink.

Maybe you could start a thread about the wine making process(es), that'd be cool and I think chad is interested in this too. I know I'm interested!

[BrewTech]

This is my second batch of making 20+ gallons with this system. My goal is to make large batches for as cheap as possible, nothing fancy, just very drinkable everyday beer. That's not to say I want to throw a bunch of ingredients together and call it beer, I want quality that's as good or better than Bud but at 1/4th the price, $5 a case. I'm still learning and tweaking ingredients and production methods but I'm almost there or at least well on my way.

I did some different things for this batch vs the last one. I used 3 different types of hops, #1 is that I used 4oz Northern Brewer hops as my primary bittering hops, boiled for 1 hour. #2, I combined 4oz of Tettnang and Hallertau hops/2oz each and put them in the boil for the last 20 mins of the boil, those hops are for flavor and aroma but add some bittering too. The last batch I only used Northern Brewer hops but found out that the old school Budweiser also used the Tettnang and Hallertau hops and I wanted to experiment with my new found hops knowledge. It's mind blowing all the info on hops there is.

The other thing I added was the use of a hydrometer, the last batch I think I made a newbie mistake by assuming the fermentation had finished when it had not and I bottled too early. Brew Tech clued me in and prompted me to buy the hydrometer, it'll let me know accurately when its finished fermenting as well as let me know what the alcohol content is. The last batch was good but this batch will hopefully be even better. Here's the complete recipe.

12lbs Amber liquid malt extract
4oz Northern Brewer hops
2oz Tettnang hops
2oz Hallertau hops
20 cups sugar
55gms Safale s-04 yeast
21 gals total
Hydrometer reading of 1.040

Come bottling day I'll add 1/2 cup sugar per 5 gals for priming.

Right now I have to do 2 boils to make this happen but by the time the next batch needs to be made I'll have saved enough $ to get a very large cook pot and a propane burner, cutting my time in half on brew day. I'll also have better control of the heat and not have to worry so much about boil overs on the stove.

Also, for the next batch I'm going to upgrade my yeast and start reusing it.

If you're going for a "Bud" type beer (even though you're making an ale) I would make the following changes:

1. Go with Golden Light malt extract instead of amber... cleaner flavor and less color. In fact, if you can get Pilsner LME/DME, do that. Pilsner malt is what AB Inbev uses to make that beer.

2. Safale S-04 is a fine yeast... for making English ales. I just used it in my Wee Heavy Scottish Ale. Very authentic, but doesn't ferment out very dry (which I think you want) and leaves a lot of fruity esters ( which I think you don't want). Go with Safale US-05 California Ale yeast. More of a neutral flavor profile (especially at lower temps... say 64-67F) and more attenuative than S-04, meaning the beer will be dryer. With a SG of 1.040, you can expect a fully fermented beer of about 4% ABV.

3. The hops look OK, but I would increase the yeast pitch by 25-50%. Yeast is cheap, and they make bad beer when they stuggle to complete fermentation.

I like the idea of repitching, just remember, when harvesting yeast - sanitation, sanitation, sanitation!

Cheers!

[Libertytree]

Yep, I agree. This batch didn't quite go as planned, instead of ordering online I tried to give business to the local brew shop but they failed me in a couple areas. I called and asked them if they had any Pilsner, was told they had plenty and the next day they had none so I went with their rec of Amber. Same for the yeast, was told they had Coopers Brewers yeast, notta and had to settle for the 04. I wanted to use the Coopers because it has a high resistance to heat, 80 degrees.

Question....I still have some yeast 2paks of the 04 and 4 paks of s-33. I brewed on Monday and am wondering if it's possible to add more yeast today? Or if that's a big no no?

[BrewTech]

Yep, I agree. This batch didn't quite go as planned, instead of ordering online I tried to give business to the local brew shop but they failed me in a couple areas. I called and asked them if they had any Pilsner, was told they had plenty and the next day they had none so I went with their rec of Amber. Same for the yeast, was told they had Coopers Brewers yeast, notta and had to settle for the 04. I wanted to use the Coopers because it has a high resistance to heat, 80 degrees.

Question....I still have some yeast 2paks of the 04 and 4 paks of s-33. I brewed on Monday and am wondering if it's possible to add more yeast today? Or if that's a big no no?

If they are a self-respecting homebrew shop, they should order you whatever you want, just give them enough of a heads up.

Adding more yeast should be ok, just make sure that everything is sanitized, and the FV is open for a minimal amount of time. Ideally you would do a starter to make sure the yeast is acclimated to an already fermenting environment, but I don't think it will be a big deal.

[Libertytree]

This isn't the first time I've had problems with them, when I went there the 1st time I mentioned that I was a noob and had some questions, the dude immediately started selling me to take a brewing class and when I said I wasn't interested he seemed to get pissy about it and after that he wasn't very helpful. So, me thinks I'm done with that and will save myself the 40 min drive and do biz on the net, delivered to my door, exactly what I want. Oh, on this last trip the main guy asked me, in front of his buddies, about my set up and I told them about it, they all just looked at each other and snickered, kinda condescendingly. I was gonna stay and have one of their house brews with them but not after that.

The reasons I'm asking about adding more yeast, should have stated this,1. you said I should have used more and 2. the fermentation isn't as strong as it was with the S-05 I used before on the last batch. It's still bubbling but not at the rate it did last time.

[gunDriller]

is there any reason to be concerned about using a Galvanized garbage can, the Zinc leaching into the beer ?

is it better to go with a plastic container ?

[Libertytree]

is there any reason to be concerned about using a Galvanized garbage can, the Zinc leaching into the beer ?

is it better to go with a plastic container ?

I went with a 32 gal rubbermaid, I can't think of any reason to use metal over plastic in this instance.

[BrewTech]

This isn't the first time I've had problems with them, when I went there the 1st time I mentioned that I was a noob and had some questions, the dude immediately started selling me to take a brewing class and when I said I wasn't interested he seemed to get pissy about it and after that he wasn't very helpful. So, me thinks I'm done with that and will save myself the 40 min drive and do biz on the net, delivered to my door, exactly what I want. Oh, on this last trip the main guy asked me, in front of his buddies, about my set up and I told them about it, they all just looked at each other and snickered, kinda condescendingly. I was gonna stay and have one of their house brews with them but not after that.

They sound like jackasses. Fuck 'em. No homebrew shop I know has people working there that act like that...


The reasons I'm asking about adding more yeast, should have stated this,1. you said I should have used more and 2. the fermentation isn't as strong as it was with the S-05 I used before on the last batch. It's still bubbling but not at the rate it did last time.

The s04 ferments quickly but tends to give up before the beer is as dry as one might like it. I pitched a 65/35 blend of s04/us05 into my wee heavy (SG 1.090) to try to get the beer to go a little more dry than with just the s04 yeast alone... friggin' yeast still wants to slow to a crawl at 1.028... I'm looking for a 1.016 FG.

I like the flavor of s04 but the performance leaves something to be desired. If I do another English style ale I'm going with White Labs WLP 002. That is, if I can get the boss to pony up for it... easy to talk when it ain't your money!

[Libertytree]

How much yeast do you use? How many gallons do you make at a time? I know it has to be substantial and can only imagine the costs are out of this world.

Speaking of yeast... You ever heard of Mauribrew Dry Ale yeast? Know anyone that's used it? Supposedly its temp range is 60-90!

Edit to add. http://www.maurivin.com/yeast.aspx?id=4&menu=open&parentid=282&menuid=286#Ale%20514 pdf spec sheet at link.

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=13614

I also ran across this... http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/brewing-ingredients/beer-yeast/wyeast-belgian-ardennes.html

[Libertytree]

I bottled it all up, the 1006 readings were consistent over 3 days, this seems screwey to me but that's another matter, the yeast by visual count had played out and was by far the worst yeast I've dealt with so far, it almost has me a little scared but the smell and taste of the beer is very good. It's a lot darker than the Pilsner from the last batch, this being an Amber malt extract but I do like the flavor. Every 5 gals was primed with 1/2 cup table sugar and then bottled.

I wound up with 9 cases total. Next week on Thanksgiving day I'll be able to tell ya if it was a failure or a success.

[BrewTech]

I bottled it all up, the 1006 readings were consistent over 3 days, this seems screwey to me but that's another matter, the yeast by visual count had played out and was by far the worst yeast I've dealt with so far, it almost has me a little scared but the smell and taste of the beer is very good. It's a lot darker than the Pilsner from the last batch, this being an Amber malt extract but I do like the flavor. Every 5 gals was primed with 1/2 cup table sugar and then bottled.

I wound up with 9 cases total. Next week on Thanksgiving day I'll be able to tell ya if it was a failure or a success.

What's screwy about a 1.5 Plato finish? If you want a dry beer (like a lager) then that's ideal... essentially what you made was an alt-bier... try adding some wheat extract next time to get the real style.

If the beer tastes good then I hope you took good notes!

Oh wait, you posted them to a forum, so that's good!

[BrewTech]

How much yeast do you use? How many gallons do you make at a time? I know it has to be substantial and can only imagine the costs are out of this world.

Speaking of yeast... You ever heard of Mauribrew Dry Ale yeast? Know anyone that's used it? Supposedly its temp range is 60-90!

Edit to add. http://www.maurivin.com/yeast.aspx?id=4&menu=open&parentid=282&menuid=286#Ale%20514 pdf spec sheet at link.

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=13614

I also ran across this... http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/brewing-ingredients/beer-yeast/wyeast-belgian-ardennes.html


With its high temperature tolerance this ale yeast can ferment from 59°F up to 90°F (15-32°C) with desirable flavor characteristics resulting in the 61-75°F (16-24°C) range.

...meaning you will get some undesirable phenolics and esters at higher temps. Keep it in the 70F range and it will be good.

The ardennes yeast is good, but if you're trying to make a Bud, you will probably not be happy with it.

If you are going to use it, use pilsner and wheat extracts, with low level hopping, preferably something like Saaz. And when I say low level hopping, just putting some hops in the same room as the fermenter should be fine... :p

[Libertytree]

What's screwy about a 1.5 Plato finish? If you want a dry beer (like a lager) then that's ideal... essentially what you made was an alt-bier... try adding some wheat extract next time to get the real style.

If the beer tastes good then I hope you took good notes!

Oh wait, you posted them to a forum, so that's good!

I had to bring myself up to speed about Plato measurements, kinda sorta, need to study that more as I still don't fully understand it or the bearing it truly holds. I did find some online converters that gave me a Plato number of 3.0 but then I found a nifty little chart that reads the 1.5. Like I said, need to bone up.

[Libertytree]

...meaning you will get some undesirable phenolics and esters at higher temps. Keep it in the 70F range and it will be good.

The ardennes yeast is good, but if you're trying to make a Bud, you will probably not be happy with it.

If you are going to use it, use pilsner and wheat extracts, with low level hopping, preferably something like Saaz. And when I say low level hopping, just putting some hops in the same room as the fermenter should be fine... :p

The Ardennes note was for you in relation to what you said earlier. Sorry, should have been clearer.

'I like the flavor of s04 but the performance leaves something to be desired. If I do another English style ale I'm going with White Labs WLP 002. That is, if I can get the boss to pony up for it... easy to talk when it ain't your money!"

The Ardennes caught my eye about how well it was with English style ales.

I'm just gonna have to deal with my insanely high fermenting temps until I can rig up something cheap to knock it down 10-15 degrees. Yet another project.

I'd definitely using the Pilsner LME next time unless this Amber is exceptional. I'm still up in the air about the yeast, though I know it'll either be the Coopers or the Mauribrew. Working on the next recipe but that's for another thread later.

[BrewTech]

I had to bring myself up to speed about Plato measurements, kinda sorta, need to study that more as I still don't fully understand it or the bearing it truly holds. I did find some online converters that gave me a Plato number of 3.0 but then I found a nifty little chart that reads the 1.5. Like I said, need to bone up.

One degree Plato is approximately 1% sugar. Each degree Plato equates to about .004 when converting to specific gravity, e.g. 1.004 = 1.0 Plato, 1.008 = 2.0 Plato, 1.040 = 10.0 Plato... you get the idea. At home I always used specific gravity, but the brewer here before was doing everything in Plato, so it just grew on me.

[Libertytree]

One degree Plato is approximately 1% sugar. Each degree Plato equates to about .004 when converting to specific gravity, e.g. 1.004 = 1.0 Plato, 1.008 = 2.0 Plato, 1.040 = 10.0 Plato... you get the idea. At home I always used specific gravity, but the brewer here before was doing everything in Plato, so it just grew on me.

Ahhh, I see. It's really a way of saying the same thing. So, a reading of 1.006 or 1.5 degrees Plato is a good thing? 1.5% sugar means exactly what? Is there a target one hopes to hit in these regards? Or is it more of a guide to help in formulating adjustments for a recipe?

[BrewTech]

Ahhh, I see. It's really a way of saying the same thing. So, a reading of 1.006 or 1.5 degrees Plato is a good thing? 1.5% sugar means exactly what? Is there a target one hopes to hit in these regards? Or is it more of a guide to help in formulating adjustments for a recipe?

Appropriate final gravity depends on beer style, as well as what the brewer is trying to achieve.

I highly recommend downloading and looking over a copy of the BJCP Guidelines (http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_stylebook.pdf). SG/FGs for each style are listed, as well as other defining characteristics for each style.

Not to mention, you'll learn a lot about beer in general.

I still haven't read the whole thing, even though it would do me well to memorize it!

[Libertytree]

Test 1- 8 days after bottling. Richer flavor than the 1st batch, not nearly as sweet, carbonation is under developed as well but the 1st test on B1 was 18 days and I expect some variance in that regard. It is clearer and the sediment at the bottom of the bottle is not nearly as pronounced, it also sits at the bottom of the bottle better.

On a scale of 1-10, so far I'd give it a 5, drinkable fer sure but the jury is still out and I expect it to get better with a few more days.

[Libertytree]

Test 2- 5 days later- day 13. Much better improvement on the carbonation! Still not where I want it but it's gettin there. I like that it's not as sweet as B1 so at least I didn't bottle it too early. The head on this batch is slowly developing itself but as of right now it's a huge improvement over the last, the bubbles are frothier and smaller but the beer is richer and no where as sweet, as stated before. The head of the beer stays a lot longer and doesn't just fizzle out, to be honest I don't know what this means but it's my observation.

1-10...give it a 6. If it makes it to an 8 I'll be tickled.

[BrewTech]

Test 2- 5 days later- day 13. Much better improvement on the carbonation! Still not where I want it but it's gettin there. I like that it's not as sweet as B1 so at least I didn't bottle it too early. The head on this batch is slowly developing itself but as of right now it's a huge improvement over the last, the bubbles are frothier and smaller but the beer is richer and no where as sweet, as stated before. The head of the beer stays a lot longer and doesn't just fizzle out, to be honest I don't know what this means but it's my observation.

1-10...give it a 6. If it makes it to an 8 I'll be tickled.

Head retention and quality (small bubbles) is a prime indicator of overall beer quality. Collapsing foam is bad.

American bartenders (generally) are trained to pour a beer with as little foam as possible, because the consumer may feel like they are getting ripped off because "foam ain't beer!"

German/ English bartenders may spend up to 5 minutes pouring a beer in order to form the perfect head, as they understand that foam is an engineered part of the product.

Don't take it from me, here's my friend Charlie to tell you all about it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrDP3c_5rPQ

[Libertytree]

Wow! He's a friend of yours? Seems like a very knowledgeable fella and a hoot to be around.

[BrewTech]

Wow! He's a friend of yours? Seems like a very knowledgeable fella and a hoot to be around.

I was lucky enough to get funded to take the Intensive Brewing Science for Practical Brewing (http://extension.ucdavis.edu/unit/brewing/pdf/Intensive.pdf) course at UC Davis, which he teaches with two other instructors.

He is a total hoot... peppers his lectures with stories and anecdotes from brewing in England and Europe. Got to sit next to him at both dinners during the course. I would love to take a couple more of his courses if I can get the money.

He has a really good lecture series known as Brewmaster's Art: the History and Science of Beermaking (https://www.google.com/search?q=brewmaster%27s+art+the+history+and+scienc e+of+beer+making&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

I checked it out from a local library as it is a bit expensive. Great series... check it out if you can.

[Libertytree]

Well, here it is day 18 and there has been absolutely very little improvement in carbonation level. I'm a bit bummed but not totally surprised either, so my rating of this batch remains at a 6. In my very limited knowledge I'm putting the blame squarely on the yeast, a yeast I didn't want to use in the 1st place and that never responded as it should have. (thanks local brew shop, grrrrr)

The good news is, is that it's not total swill that needs to be dumped out and is drinkable but it really falls short of even my standards. It probably isn't the last time a batch will peter out but such is the life and times of a homebrewer I reckon. I will say that it is the last time I use ingredients, in this case yeast, that I don't specifically want, lesson learned.

Now it's onto batch #3, the quest continues.

[Glass]

Hey LT, I think that is the key to the dreaded 1.020's. The Yeast. I was watching someone yesterday, Northwest Brewers or something and even the pro's get stung now and again. Had the 1.020's from a yeast they harvested and did a starter with. The guy dumped in about 2 - 3 cups of yeast and still didn't make it.

I'll be looking for some alternatives to try. I've found some better equipped HBS but they are not local.

[Libertytree]

Hey LT, I think that is the key to the dreaded 1.020's. The Yeast. I was watching someone yesterday, Northwest Brewers or something and even the pro's get stung now and again. Had the 1.020's from a yeast they harvested and did a starter with. The guy dumped in about 2 - 3 cups of yeast and still didn't make it.

I'll be looking for some alternatives to try. I've found some better equipped HBS but they are not local.

I'd never heard about the dreaded 1.020's until you mentioned it.(gotta link?) Mine though went to 1.006 and it turned out the way it did. For us it's hard to discern what actually went wrong, we can only guess based on what we see/tast and use the process of elimination to try and correct it. I think yours will turn out fine though, you got it down from the 1.020 and should be good to go.

I used the safale against my better judgement because I was taking whatever the brewshop thought was best in lieu of the Coopers. I didn't feel good about it then, I didn't feel good about it during the ferment and I feel worse about it now, hindsight is 20/20.

[Glass]

yeah sorry, I was just saying that my 1.020 issue and others seems to be yeast. And yes as you point out and I didn't think of I'm below 1.0.20 now. But I will look closely at it for the next one. Either more yeast or different/better next time OR run the ferment on regular temps with the kit yeast but probably a different yeast plus a lot more aeration at the get go.

[Libertytree]

NP. Even though I'm pitchin Coopers next time I'm still gonna ramp it up as BT suggests and the dude that he respects calculates. Aeration is really at the bottom of the list in my mind, my 1st 2 batches fermented like a mofo with no aeration besides the initial swirl.

[Glass]

yep. I never heard of the aeration aspect before. I figured to do it like I have seen, dump it all in and give it a good stir. Get a cold one and wait.

There sure are a lot of factors. I'm more sort of picking your brains for my next batch. Flying a few things up the pole to see as it were. thanks.

[Libertytree]

I'm learning from you, BT and the net in search for that perfect cheap, kickass recipe, like I said before, it's a friggin quest! lol. I ordered the ingredients for my next batch yesterday but that's fodder for later.

[BrewTech]

I'm learning from you, BT and the net in search for that perfect cheap, kickass recipe, like I said before, it's a friggin quest! lol. I ordered the ingredients for my next batch yesterday but that's fodder for later.'

FWIW, Fermentis (makers of Safale and Saflager yeasts) clain that oxygenation is not needed because of the manufacturing process. Just the same, I oxygenate my yeast, sometimes quite robustly, depending on the beer.

A good thing to remember as a brewer, is this fact:

Brewers make wort, yeast make beer.

[Libertytree]

'

FWIW, Fermentis (makers of Safale and Saflager yeasts) clain that oxygenation is not needed because of the manufacturing process. Just the same, I oxygenate my yeast, sometimes quite robustly, depending on the beer.

A good thing to remember as a brewer, is this fact:

Brewers make wort, yeast make beer.

Excellent words, makes sense. Brings me to coin this phrase "Make wort, not war" :)

[BrewTech]

Excellent words, makes sense. Brings me to coin this phrase "Make wort, not war" :)

Speaking of which, I can't believe nobody has taken notice of my sig line... I thought it was friggin' brilliant!

:cool:

[Libertytree]

Speaking of which, I can't believe nobody has taken notice of my sig line... I thought it was friggin' brilliant!

:cool:

I just think its lost on most, just like "By way of decoction, thou shalt do roux" would read. Now sparging in the ol grundies was really a hoot/notice taker, lol.

[BrewTech]

I just think its lost on most, just like "By way of decoction, thou shalt do roux" would read. Now sparging in the ol grundies was really a hoot/notice taker, lol.

Maybe, but it's still brilliant! And original it seems... Google search for the phrase only finds my reference.

I would expect folks here to recognize the original phrase that it derives from immediately...

I hearby trademark my sigline under the precedent set by Sir Poncelot...

He's got "If you don't hold it..." so this one's mine!
:p

[Libertytree]

By damn, this is interesting! I just cracked a bottle and while it's not what I would call fully carbonated there was a very good woosh upon opening this time. Better flavor too! Consistent small bubbled head in the bottle. I'll not get my hopes up but this is intriguing.

[Glass]

Well thats excellent news. sounds like the beer is coming to you or into its own. Nice one.

[Libertytree]

I picked up a case of Bud today and am doing a side by side tasting of it and this batch, matter of fact I'm doing this test as I type. This is kinda wild, I rated this batch at a 5-6, mostly because of carbonation/yeast issues and the lack of development in the beer itself and I stand by that and know it's something that can be fixed/tweaked, no problem. Sitting here, trying both side by side I'm amazed! My half ass brew is actually better than the Bud, at least flavor wise. Yeah, it still has its flaws but this is cool! Is Inbev stock going to hell? It's my fault :)

It's crazy, little ol' jackwagon me can make a f'd up batch of beer that's better than what I pay 4 times over for retail.

[Glass]

I don't want to be rude but Bud is probably not a fair measure. :p There are not many worse beers out there other than Bud. Fosters or Crown lager would probably pip Bud for the Worst Beer Ever award.

Thats 2 Aussie beers rated as worlds worst beer contenders. Still congrats on the success of the brew.

I was in a panic when this forum went down. What about the homebrew forum was my first thought. Luckily I found an archive that I could read and draw some comfort from.

[Libertytree]

I don't want to be rude but Bud is probably not a fair measure. :p There are not many worse beers out there other than Bud. Fosters or Crown lager would probably pip Bud for the Worst Beer Ever award.

Thats 2 Aussie beers rated as worlds worst beer contenders. Still congrats on the success of the brew.

I was in a panic when this forum went down. What about the homebrew forum was my first thought. Luckily I found an archive that I could read and draw some comfort from.

Mine too!

I've just always drank Bud, not the bottom level of US beers but not at the top level either. It fit my taste and pocketbook and to be truthful it has been my benchmark as to the homebrew I'm trying to make. I know, I have shitty taste but that's ok, I'm a redneck and don't GAF, lol. I know what I'm after and I'll get there, slowly but surely.

We need a backup beer forum too, we'll talk.

[Glass]

Would you call those style of beers lawnmower? Is that the word? I was re-reading my denigration of bud, bit rude. They are a great yard work thirst quencher. Certainly easy drinker. Sometimes I'll go out and do the yard to work up a thirst so I can have a nice frosty one. We have a brand down here called VB, Victoria Bitter. How about one now? As a matter of fact I'll go one now. Good slogans. I don't drink it these days but it's perfect for 100 degree days. I love beer is also a good slogan.

I actually think my Tooheys will come out like those. I'm keen to compare the texture of the head of this with those. Being they are forced carbonated and this is natural I'm hoping to have a more creamy experience. That's the bit I miss. not being a much of an ale drinker.

hope things are still progressing nicely there.