China Poised To DEMAND U.S. LAND As Payment For U.S. Debt

[old steel]

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/china-usa-aritcle-size.jpg (http://www.secretsofthefed.com/china-poised-demand-u-s-land-payment-u-s-debt/china-usa-aritcle-size/)


NEW YORK – Could real estate on American soil owned by China be set up as “development zones” in which the communist nation could establish Chinese-owned businesses and bring in its citizens to the U.S. to work?


That’s part of an evolving proposal Beijing has been developing quietly since 2009 to convert more than $1 trillion of U.S debt it owns into equity.


Under the plan, China would own U.S. businesses, U.S. infrastructure and U.S. high-value land, all with a U.S. government guarantee against loss.
Yu Qiao, a professor of economics in the School of Public Policy and Management at Tsighua University in Beijing, proposed in 2009 a plan for the U.S. government to guarantee foreign investments in the United States (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/18f4530c-1e54-11de-830b-00144feabdc0.html).
WND has reliable information that the Bank of China, China’s central bank, has continued to advance the plan to convert China’s holdings of U.S. debt into equity owned by China in the U.S.

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/china-poised-demand-u-s-land-payment-u-s-debt/

[Ares]

Yeah who couldn't see this coming? U.S. Spending like a drunken sailor while China picks up the tab with the U.S. saying in a drunken slur.. "I'll pay ya back... I promise."

[ximmy]

this is probably already in the works.

Source: CNN Money


“(CNN Money (http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/08/real_estate/chinese-homebuyers/index.html)) At a median price of $425,000, the Chinese are also buying more expensive homes than other foreign buyers, who spent a median of nearly $276,000 on U.S. homes. And nearly 70% of those pricey Chinese deals were made in all cash.
Nowhere is the influx of Chinese homebuyers felt more strongly than in California, where more than half of the homes sold to foreign buyers went to Chinese nationals.”
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/chinese-real-estate-buying-china-housing-california-purchases/

The amount of all cash offers being made across the country is deep into record territory. Once again, the real estate market is crawling into unchartered waters here (http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/record-surge-in-mortgage-rates-mortgage-rate-affordability-incomes/). We all know about the flood of money coming from hungry Wall Street investors (http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/record-surge-in-mortgage-rates-mortgage-rate-affordability-incomes/) ravenously chasing yields in the rental game. What about foreign money floating into the market? Data on this is hard to come by but anecdotally we know that money from China is flooding into California. How much? Hard to say but some good data was recently released regarding the buying habits of foreigners. Some will remember when Japan lived through their boom (http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/japan-quantitative-easing-japan-real-estate-fed-balance-sheet-us-home-prices/) and money flooded into California then as well. The big difference this time is that China has more than 1.3 billion people versus 127 million for Japan. In other words, the potential for a high volume of activity is now starting to be seen in dramatic fashion.
Chinese purchases focused on prestige locations
One of the most interesting figures regarding international demand is with the typical amount spent on a purchase:
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/foreign-demand.png (http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/foreign-demand.png)

[ximmy]

we are sooo plucked.... OMG!



Chinese To Spend Billions On American Real Estate - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/07/10/chinese-to-spend-billions-on-american-real-estate/)www.forbes.com/.../chinese-to-spend-billions-on-american-real-estate/‎
Jul 10, 2013 - While Mexicans are big in California and all across the south, China still ranks within the top five foreign nationalities buying real estate in 44 ...



Chinese investor activity in San Francisco real estate reaching fever ... (http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2013/10/29/chinese-investor-activity-in-san-francisco-real-estate-reaching-fever-pitch/)blog.sfgate.com/.../chinese-investor-activity-in-san-francisco-real-estate-r...‎
Oct 29, 2013 - Chinese buyers spent US$30 billion on international property in 2012. ... buyers in California go to Chinese nationals, estimates CNN Money.



Chinese buyers bring big money to U.S. housing market - Jul. 8, 2013 (http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/08/real_estate/chinese-homebuyers/)money.cnn.com/2013/07/08/real_estate/chinese-homebuyers/‎
Jul 8, 2013 - Chinese buyers accounted for 18% of the $68.2 billion that foreigners ... Nowhere is the influx of Chinese homebuyers felt more strongly than in California, ... Most of her Chinese clients are wealthy industrialists or real estate ...



Asian buyers scoop up 'bargain' million-dollar Bay Area homes ... (http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24192747/asian-buyers-scoop-up-bargain-million-dollar-bay)http://gold-silver.us/forum/image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/4QDSRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAACADEBAgAHAAAAJgAAAGmHBAABAA AALgAAAAAAAABQaWNhc2EAAAIAAJAHAAQAAAAwMjIwhpIHAH4A AABMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC AgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC AgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgAP/bAIQAAwICAwICAwMDAwQDAwQFCAUFBAQFCgcHBggMCgwMCwoLC w0OEhANDhEOCwsQFhARExQVFRUMFhcYFhQYEhQVFAEDBAQGBQY KBgYKDw0MDhMPEQ8NDhAPEBMMDRAPEBIQDw0PFA0QEBMPEBAPE A0NDA4NEAwNDw0MDgwSEBANDQ8P/8AAEQgALAAsAwERAAIRAQMRAf/EABoAAQADAAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgCBgcABAn/xAAwEAABAwIEBQIGAQUAAAAAAAABAgMEBREABhIhBxMiMUEIFB VRYYGRoXEXI2Jygv/EABoBAAIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIGAwQFAQf/xAAyEQABAwEFBgUCBwEAAAAAAAABAAIRAwQSITFBBVFhcaHBE4 GRseEi8CMyNIKy0fEU/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwB4R8/0eoaLVimK6hsmW0o/o41RdGTllyTmFcqJV6K1SnZcifC0IupSy+khKO2++24OKlZ5Lo BVik0BslU7MXGSiJpBqFOhOyoLbulyS0kAgb7gEi4+99u2OU6k OxMon05GAXW/q9lhNNiznJpbakx3pDaSg6lcsAqQB5XY7J7m2LLqzG5nOenfgq ZBBgrmZuLdAy5k6Lmb3CZtNkBpaCy4kLLa1AczSogkC+4Av9MA 6102sFScDEcQUN0oFcZOPFT4l5xNWjyXKZFQwlhhhtYT0BSiCQ dwTquRdW/nwE+1Wx1Z94EtGUd80V0apkZu48M8N6O/IrkeJNeWQqFS40kGS2nSm4kXuAok3GjUN9O9tROpav8AnbiJOg n391qPqRisJ4l8eGeJ+W6c1HpMeiK5pMpUdNipPLSSSqwUBuRp 8387HFqy2o1aZeRGnQHuu0x4hV/ouTouZsnUVyTJnwXnkpaSGUhKP+iNzewSLnbxgTa7pwW/T2eXAF4/xU7jxFplIyUIbbBPw9TnJ3VzFkp1HsQdWxtbuDY+MRPqeNQeDE iYJ0Kztp2ZtJ30ouozchUxqFIVIbVHZWyw3IU8FtkEkgagOgFR Nx5N/IxgMNUND72WWREbhnx5Y6pfmFVZeWY1XlvTFyX3i8rWFIKSLHt sdJH8EXxO22GmA26MOfyiSY4//FC4uqKdY9lPcQuPLgLCkPMJ03sAqxF1KPcEk99gMHbKcPmrAb7 8CNeis1BvUPTjQX6quV71CXXIK2ZLMeWxoQ8HOlJvYkpCggKPY axYA3GJ6JFNrmEQDjz06wtbZzLxgZgz5EdiOqUcmTxBbalpUzl ukJQ224w20XpaTdQCyodBAt2sbn6YldE/SMMyEz0wS36jJynJH71RR51Pp9LmZirlPnPuucxIgtGNFSALIQ FXcNzqvqJNtNtxiG01h4NRrREjCMVh26lcp3nmSZGPZFN+l0NT qA6kSGEyEj4jJUHVOKIUNGpJFkC46QE9h8zfJp2mtdLQAJGQEX QNRxO8kniIwVCpVKj1ORMccZrQgxlH+y2wtASU+T1f5avxiVtW iBBaSdSR8orsLRc4SpsrND9KnMOx5EhR0IqCA0ltKglxOvaydi lR2A37EjHHUqj6ji51zmYw444ceKmOJhco2YHkZ3oyqfy50mG8 ghaApCuWlZSdOtXgg3J6flcjcqDLTWc1jbx3CZw1LtAIy+VLQq GnUa6dR7pcS6JIz9l+Oqly0qYCeY48XZBUtYsSl4IkICxsOkgW AttvjRY8NEEfKfWs8Qy555CEYfVTxEgwplNozTglVsanZz8BhC UM6bJKS2k2N9ZTYEnpFz1XwL7JUrsNQAXQcsuRHnmSlvazxDaQ JOZk4+XVH6iz6xXqshoIVSae7dT4iQXEuGwFgXinSpJTY6rnv3 2uc+oylRbMhztJcIH7ZkGdCNPRdDVq9Dcao9ORHaIjouVctltC kgk77nfvig8l5kOP35K8IVbGfsrTKKiDWaI6HPbFJYjua+YrXq 2WV6kI02ve+6bbg7NVNrHXTcmMicwZOueXwo2MLswtE9G7lIzP mPNiHGEqI9qiLHeTzFJZ5rq3dS7dieWBe3aw7HDZsmzfg120sH FsDmQfjHgq9YtpPpk/lBk9EnOMnpxzI/Gdq+Q5U6OqYu8qPTJGlt4EXC06TbuTf8/O6sKFam649nrom9tpovBcHx3Qy4oU1vhxljMEepQ5LWYJ7bERm U+0boHuEOucsp1XQQ0NTiikX0JSFEkBxqWM2Ozv8QyXADDT734 cEputItNVpZgAs6pnEWe3CbiyStzl2BdSrQ4rc2Ore5+pH3x59 V2ZSLi9mBPmPT+lbNIEyMFYYWeoEOOlDanmxuSCB3+2KbtnPJk u9JC6GEYLG2JbrhfWpZKiz3/kpB/V/wA4Z4hGkb6HMm0bN2aM1t1insVFpumgpRIQFBJKxuL7g9CdxbD RsRodUcTuHUrJt5IYIXoXwupELh63OcoMZMIONvLcbClFDhS04 U3BPgoFrWt2FgcblvpNc0Ajd/IDuqNle4HP7goleoyC076Tfi7gLtQqUuNLkvrNytZfsB/qAbAYh2v+ndzHujsR+sckKkrUuIg3I6PH0UMee6pjOSjBBfY1K Ub3tgXZroX/2Q== (https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+buying+real+estate+in+california&tbs=ppl_ids:--102055505391861851118-,ppl_nps:Pete+Carey,ppl_aut:1)


www.mercurynews.com/.../asian-buyers-scoop-up-bargain-milli...‎
by Pete Carey (https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+buying+real+estate+in+california&tbs=ppl_ids:--102055505391861851118-,ppl_nps:Pete+Carey,ppl_aut:1) - in 77 Google+ circles (https://plus.google.com/102055505391861851118)
Sep 27, 2013 - De Leon said he has sold at least 20 homes to buyers from China in the past ... percent of Chinese buyers who bought in the U.S. bought in California. ... "I hear from buyers that in China, the real estate market has gone up so ...



Chinese Now Second-Largest Group Of Foreigners Buying Homes ... (http://www.ibtimes.com/chinese-now-second-largest-group-foreigners-buying-homes-america-boosting-real-estate-prices-1232721)http://gold-silver.us/forum/image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/4QB6RXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAACADEBAgAHAAAAJgAAAGmHBAABAA AALgAAAAAAAABQaWNhc2EAAAIAAJAHAAQAAAAwMjIwCZAHACYA AABMAAAAAAAAAAokCAEQARgAIAAoADAAOABAAEgBUABYAGABaA FwAHgBgAEBiAEB/9sAhAADAgIDAgIDAwMDBAMDBAUIBQUEBAUKBwcGCAwKDAwLCgs LDQ4SEA0OEQ4LCxAWEBETDRUVFQ8PFxgWFBgSFBUUAQMEBAYFB goGBgoPDQwOFA8QDhUPDAwNDA4PDw0ODxAMDAwPDA0MDA4RFQ0 ODwwMDQ0MDA4MDA0NDA8MDQwODAz/wAARCAAsACwDAREAAhEBAxEB/8QAHQAAAQQCAwAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAUGBwkDBAABAv/EADMQAAEDAgQDBQYHAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFEQAGEiEHEzEIFCJBU RZCYXGBkRUyUqGxs9Ek/8QAGwEAAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAABAUBAgMGAAf/xAAsEQACAQMDAgQFBQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBBESITFRsQVBYXEGE5 HB8BQiI6HR/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwCCOxzBD+asxq02CY7HTpupf+YWVt0gmAd bMECnsi3uj+MD4NDA/LptJLffpsWHzDpR3h5Leo+guRfF0VyLsBpiWyh1laHmlC6XG1B ST8iMWSIYoCngjpiSDEqnb9MRggAzsTMJVmHNgFh/zwzsCPN3Fq3CJgGXnTMDeTsg1OtuI5iYEVTwQfeITsPvbA7eEa pZZXznDi/xIr86I9l+ryKc/JAEhUBDYkOrJ/Mt2xc03JCWwQhKQABcqKmUYqEcIGac3kmzsjcWM9HiGzljNshN Rh1FLuiY8yhl4OpbKwFaAA5sgjUQVbkEkBITlPfcsoOIb7TIIx iScVH3x4nBXt2FlB6tZxV1IYgj+44tW8iYcBj8Qste1/Dis0UfnnQ3GU2/Vp8P72wNJPGxpF4ZAPZd4U5IlZFgVOfDYdr8OW5FliQAq7qV2B JIunZKVBIwFXrPW0m98Y9joLWEXTWI9c7ZHe1wny2xx/yFUsupW3NaM2r1DlhIaDIZUylNkgJ3ceRY9SEq62ONrabln07g l/CMEljf+wnWUAJG2DRMcUjfHiSufsIU2vymM1VFuG73OQY8dipS 78khrmAoRc3Xp1AWHhHqLWwv8Uv4W0UlvLp92E2tu6ry+PzgMY UR5EdDr09+Y4g+K6yAfXYbD6AY4OV9WqS1Ob+uw/VGEVhRPOXslUmh95/DUFnvbvNcCwkp1kAHaw62HW+4v13w0p3KqYaeH6sKU/THsbETJ79HrUWVTam7Fl1KYluY+ttrSppLLqwN0nYFIAsRa+G9 Croi/wB3bAFcRhUxld8j9ps5bUpUGTIZfdSNTbrWwcHnt6j4bYMtr6F WTp6k36eYouLfQlKPHYUlKF8MwEHf2gpGUKZDpFPMWlxoyAyzG bGhtlIGwsB4RsMfMqFCtfVHLPPLf+nWzlCjHj6CvwxzF7QuV+K 3JZkGHM5ZW0sLQoKQlaSCPVKhceRuPLGt5afppaM5M6db5qUh7/hDmxSvQR0thbpN9R03zoTiebdSVEJ+5xXdHtmaztXVLDjkYaZs B3UhP6tgdPyINvri9tcypTU1yvzBFSipx0vzHnFnpmRmn03Slx IVpV1HwPxGPqdKrGrBTjw9zk5wcJOL8isTtqVuoUzibSW4k+XF QukaloZkuIQohx210hWna3W19/lZN8OLVbzT8pfZDPxJ4qLHQKTstZRiZHyfOhw35EkyJypL0iWp KnXFlpobkADYAAbYS/EMmrnT0SDLFfx59yd+aoAb+WOYTD8GjUnlFCBf3r/W+KqTPYG/BfUjML7SbBJAUbdT4U4zlsso1Q6qVUHYzDiE6SkOEjUOmwx3Hh FeSoY6N9kILyC+Zk//2Q== (https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+buying+real+estate+in+california&tbs=ppl_ids:--109418095267196681359-,ppl_nps:Sophie+Song,ppl_aut:1)


www.ibtimes.com/chinese-now-second-largest-group-foreigners...‎
by Sophie Song (https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+buying+real+estate+in+california&tbs=ppl_ids:--109418095267196681359-,ppl_nps:Sophie+Song,ppl_aut:1) - in 66 Google+ circles (https://plus.google.com/109418095267196681359)
May 2, 2013 - As a result, Chinese real estate investors are looking abroad for better ... With so many Chinese buying homes in southern California, banks, ...



Chinese buy expensive U.S. homes – USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/story/2012-04-03/us-homes-lure-chinese-buyers/53977638/1)www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/...chinese-buyers/.../1‎
Apr 3, 2012 - Roughly 40% of Chinese buyers want property in the U.S. as ... a regional bank heavily active in California with branches in China and Hong ...



Chinese Buyers Flood U.S. Housing Market | AOL Real Estate (http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/07/08/chinese-homebuyers-flood-us-housing-market/)realestate.aol.com/blog/.../chinese-homebuyers-flood-us-housing-market/‎
Jul 8, 2013 - Nowhere is the influx of Chinese homebuyers felt more strongly than in California, where more than half of the homes sold to foreign buyers ...



Increasingly, Chinese are buying California real estate | Del Mar ... (http://www.incorlaw.com/blog/2013/10/increasingly-chinese-are-buying-california-real-estate.shtml)www.incorlaw.com/.../increasingly-chinese-are-buying-california-real-est...‎
Oct 7, 2013 - California has long been an attractive area for Chinese investment in real estate. As a state with a long history of connections to China and the ...

[ShortJohnSilver]

They sell California to the Chinese, just in time for Fukushima to f*** it up. Brilliant!

[zap]

Good, the Chinese can buy all of the Bay Area, San Francisco, San Jose and surrounding areas, its a mess there, and then we will have another 1906 earthquake and they can learn the word, Adios my friend.

[palani]

Unfortunately nothing can be purchased with a FRN. That observation holds for the Chinese as well as for you. If they accepted paper money in exchange for goods and services then they have been paid. Otherwise the terms on a FRN is the same for everyone ... spelled out in 12 USC 411 ... those bills are issued for exchange between Federal Reserve Banks and their agents.

Now they are certainly free to exchange a FRN back for other goods or services but they can never buy land. Let them have the perception of buying land though 'cause then they can pay the property tax that goes along with the perception.

[mick silver]

just wait till all the food thats made here leaves here , just fucking maybe people will wake the f up

[mamboni]

This is pathetic, selling the family airlooms to buy booze as it were. But at least the Chinese work hard and produce, unlike certain intrinsically tanned minorities that populate our inner cities. If the Chinese become citizens ans assimilate, this might be good for the nation on the whole. But white Europeans seem to be on the endangered species list.

[Spectrism]

The chinese are soon going to own all the factories that westerners foolishly set up there. As I watched the exodus of factories in the 1990s, I predicted that one day the government of China would issue a statement:

To all the fine company managers and owners who set up factories in China- the People's Republic of China thanks you for your generosity in donating everything to this caring nation. We will take good care of all the things you are leaving and hope you will return soon to visit our most popular tourist locations. You can be assured that we will continue to produce the good quality items demanded by the world markets. Any non-Chinese workers who do not have approved visas will be graciously escorted to the port of departure within 2 days.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Unfortunately nothing can be purchased with a FRN. That observation holds for the Chinese as well as for you. If they accepted paper money in exchange for goods and services then they have been paid. Otherwise the terms on a FRN is the same for everyone ... spelled out in 12 USC 411 ... those bills are issued for exchange between Federal Reserve Banks and their agents.

Now they are certainly free to exchange a FRN back for other goods or services but they can never buy land. Let them have the perception of buying land though 'cause then they can pay the property tax that goes along with the perception.

So are you saying that you own land you do not pay property tax on?

[Hatha Sunahara]

Ponce can teach them how to get 'allodial title' to their land. Barring that, they would have to pay property tax, as Palani has noted.

There is some huge irony here. The taxpayers, through the government, bailed out the big banks, who now own a huge percentage of residential houses that have had foreclosures on their mortgages. That real estate now belongs to the banks--not the taxpayers, and cannot be used to settle the US government's debt to China.

We are headed for a crash of biblical proportions. And suffering by the people commensurate to the crash.


Hatha

[chad]

Ponce can teach them how to get 'allodial title' to their land. Barring that, they would have to pay property tax, as Palani has noted.

There is some huge irony here. The taxpayers, through the government, bailed out the big banks, who now own a huge percentage of residential houses that have had foreclosures on their mortgages. That real estate now belongs to the banks--not the taxpayers, and cannot be used to settle the US government's debt to China.

We are headed for a crash of biblical proportions. And suffering by the people commensurate to the crash.


Hatha

ponce pays taxes. they told him to go pound sand.

[Uncle Salty]

Arr your rand are berong to us...

[7th trump]

So are you saying that you own land you do not pay property tax on?

Son of liberty dont pay any attention to palani.
Heres 12usc 411.
Its broken into three (3) sections (I color coded them for you to easily understand) which palani doesnt observe and completely fucks up the true intent of bills.


12 USC § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.
Dont follow palani down his prim-rose path of mental bliss.
The first section of 411 does not pertain to the public........its strictly between the reserve system and member banks.
The second section relates to the public as does the third section.
You are not a federal reserve agent by having reserve noted in your pocket....that notion is made up by someone else that palani follows.
Google resever agent and you'll see who a "reserve agent is..........its not the common public.
Only a fool would fuck up the proper interpretation of a statute as bad as he does.
Hes a conspiracy mongerer and just wants everyone to buy into his mental desease.

[7th trump]

ponce pays taxes. they told him to go pound sand.

Yep...land patents mean nothing when the property is listed in the county (public taxation) register.

[Ares]

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized.

So common folks carrying around FRN's are breaking the law?

[midnight rambler]

just wait till all the food thats made here leaves here , just fucking maybe people will wake the f up

And then they will ramp up the exportation of the SHIT* they produce back to the states.

*what passes for honey, uninspected chicken, etc.

[midnight rambler]

The chinese are soon going to own all the factories that westerners foolishly set up there.

As you're probably already aware, this conversion of ownership of production facilities and the hijacking of technical expertise has been taking place in the 'low key' phase for years now, when the time comes - POOF! all gone to the PLA.

[mick silver]

and there will come a time when they want even let that shit come here , because they can get a better price some were else

[midnight rambler]

So common folks carrying around FRN's are breaking the law?

No, clearly 12 USC 411 sets forth that anyone passing ("making advances to Federal reserve banks") FRNs is an agent of the Federal Reserve. This fact is lost on >99% of people.

[Ares]

No, clearly 12 USC 411 sets forth that anyone passing ("making advances to Federal reserve banks") FRNs is an agent of the Federal Reserve. This fact is lost on >99% of people.

I know I was asking 7th Trump as he said "You are not a federal reserve agent by having reserve noted in your pocket...." When 12 U.S.C. 411 clearly states that the FRN is an interbank lending currency and that no other uses are authorized. So I was asking rhetorically if people who are not agents of the federal reserve bank, just every day common folk were breaking the law by having FRN's in their pocket.

To be fair Bank Fraud and national slavery 101 are not taught at a young age. It's just something the more astute among us strive for to learn why some things are the way they are.

[midnight rambler]

I know I was asking 7th Trump as he said "You are not a federal reserve agent by having reserve noted in your pocket...." When 12 U.S.C. 411 clearly states that the FRN is an interbank lending currency and that no other uses are authorized. So I was asking rhetorically if people who are not agents of the federal reserve bank, just every day common folk were breaking the law by having FRN's in their pocket.

Think about the INTENT as written...just about every single act passed by CONgress these days states: "set forth to blah, blah, blah, and for other purposes"...12 USC 411 is the ONLY thing I've ever seen passed by CONgress which states "...and for no other purpose" There it is in plain English.

So no, "merely having a FRN in your pocket" does not make one a Federal reserve agent however the moment you con someone into taking that IOU nothing* in exchange for something of value you've participated in the scheme of "making advances to Federal reserves banks". While some would like to obfuscate and confuse the matter, for whatever reason, it's really not that difficult for one to wrap one's head around that.

*ON ITS FACE a Federal Reserve Note is evidence of debt

[Ares]

Think about the INTENT as written...just about every single act passed by CONgress these days states: "set forth to blah, blah, blah, and for other purposes"...12 USC 411 is the ONLY thing I've ever seen passed by CONgress which states "...and for no other purpose" There it is in plain English.

That's what stuck out the most to me as well when I read that section. To me, and please by all means correct me if I'm wrong. To me it says that the FRN is to be used between the government, and the Federal Reserve System. It's not meant for you and me, its very restrictive when it comes to laying out what FRN's are for. If you're a federal reserve bank, or an agent you are authorized. If you're not, you're not authorized to use it.

[midnight rambler]

That's what stuck out the most to me as well when I read that section. To me, and please by all means correct me if I'm wrong. To me it says that the FRN is to be used between the government, and the Federal Reserve System. It's not meant for you and me, its very restrictive when it comes to laying out what FRN's are for. If you're a federal reserve bank, or an agent you are authorized. If you're not, you're not authorized to use it.

How do you figure you or anyone other than "the government" or "the Fed" is 'not authorized' to use FRNs?? IMO 12 USC 411 was written to cover their asses, and ANYONE who *uses* FRNs is in fact an agent of the Federal reserve per 12 USC 411. It cannot be any other way 'cause 12 USC 411 clearly states, "Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve* banks through the Federal reserve* agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized."

*note the lower case 'r' on 'reserve' in these two cases, this is clearly to make a distinction, however I'm unclear as to what the intent is

[palani]

So are you saying that you own land you do not pay property tax on?

My assets have been stuck at one $5 gold piece and $21 in silver dollars for years now. I don't own any land because proclaiming ownership of anything would lead me to an argument with a system that promotes the 10 planks. I feel I am pushing the system enough by proclaiming ownership of that amount of specie.

But I have helped a guy put in a claim for 1,600 square miles of property that was abandoned. I don't believe he ever recorded his claim though so it follows that he pays no property tax upon it.

[palani]

Hes a conspiracy mongerer and just wants everyone to buy into his mental desease. My comments are intended for those who prefer to think for themselves and who do not need to contort what statutes say to make their own view work.

[Ares]

How do you figure you or anyone other than "the government" or "the Fed" is 'not authorized' to use FRNs?? IMO 12 USC 411 was written to cover their asses, and ANYONE who *uses* FRNs is in fact an agent of the Federal reserve per 12 USC 411. It cannot be any other way 'cause 12 USC 411 clearly states, "Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve* banks through the Federal reserve* agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized."

*note the lower case 'r' on 'reserve' in these two cases, this is clearly to make a distinction, however I'm unclear as to what the intent is

Probably a cover their ass clause like you said to be in compliance with the Judiciary Act of 1789.

[StreetsOfGold]

I say we SELL the land to them and make them a .......

Special Offer - Chinese ONLY - One trillion dollars per square foot

[7th trump]

My comments are intended for those who prefer to think for themselves and who do not need to contort what statutes say to make their own view work.

You are the one contorting the statute to fit your conspiracy belief system.....not I!
You cannot even comprehend there are three (3) sections to 12usc 411. The three section do not cross or mix into one another.......hence the semicolons in the title of the 411 section.
You're the one who is saying everyone is an agent when the statute says nothing of the like.

[JohnQPublic]

The Japanese were buying everything up in the 1980s (especially golf courses). Then they turned around and sold it all back.

[Spectrism]

The Japanese were buying everything up in the 1980s (especially golf courses). Then they turned around and sold it all back.

Yeup... you know what they say.... Amerika, the land where great empires come to die.

[Ponce]

I think that I'll sell my property and move to China.....after all, they all will be here.

"Learn Spanish and Chinese and buy water stock"... Ponce

V

[palani]

You cannot even comprehend there are three (3) sections to 12usc 411. The three section do not cross or mix into one another.......hence the semicolons in the title of the 411 section.
Your '3 sections' are all contained within 12 USC 411.

When you bake a cake and mix flour, eggs and milk ... do you later intend to consume the milk only in the cake after it is cooked? Do you have a special way to eliminate the other two ingredients?

You're the one who is saying everyone is an agent when the statute says nothing of the like. So your basis for hold a Federal Reserve note that came into your possession is FOR SOME OTHER PURPOSE? Congress told you not to do that right in 12 USC 411.

[7th trump]

Your '3 sections' are all contained within 12 USC 411.

When you bake a cake and mix flour, eggs and milk ... do you later intend to consume the milk only in the cake after it is cooked? Do you have a special way to eliminate the other two ingredients?
So your basis for hold a Federal Reserve note that came into your possession is FOR SOME OTHER PURPOSE? Congress told you not to do that right in 12 USC 411.

So I guess you GSUS'er are to read the law as if you are baking a cake.
Palani is asking you people to never mind the three semicolons in the title of 12usc 411.

(12 USC § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption)

These semicolons instruct the readers to notice there are three(3) individual aspects to what you are about to read and should give credence to them to fully comprehend the meaning. They are there to help you understand, but palani is here to tell you to ignore the purpose of the semicolons and convolute everything together as if you are baking a cake.......yep palani's advice sounds professional and proper doesn't it?
I'm not even going to mention the "subject" of each individual section to understand the "how's" and "what's" of each individual section to determine the "object" application.
I seriously don't think palani can decipher the "object" from the "subject" when it comes to application of law.


No palani, 12usc 411 says the federal reserve note is an obligation of the united states, one of the three sections you are purposely ignoring to justify your conspiracy mindset. The federal reserve notes use is noted (generally) in 411 here-


The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues

You do understand why you see "obligation to the Unites States" in the statute don't you?
Its because the federal reserve note replaced the US Treasure note. Reserve notes "function" no differently on the "obligation" level of US Treasury notes.
You buy items with it, pay all taxes and customs.....its functions no differently, but its not a Treasury note.

So where did Congress say not to use the federal reserve note?
I don't see that connotation in 12usc 411!
Where is it?
Please point this out in 411 for the people reading this!

[midnight rambler]

So your basis for hold a Federal Reserve note that came into your possession is FOR SOME OTHER PURPOSE? Congress told you not to do that right in 12 USC 411.

Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius. The inclusion of one is the exclusion of another. 11 Co. 58.

Duh.

Some folks are just too dense to comprehend a very simple concept.

[midnight rambler]

So I guess you GSUS'er are to read the law as if you are baking a cake.
Palani is asking you people to never mind the three semicolons in the title of 12usc 411.

(12 USC § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption)

These semicolons instruct the readers to notice there are three(3) individual aspects to what you are about to read and should give credence to them to fully comprehend the meaning. They are there to help you understand, but palani is here to tell you to ignore the purpose of the semicolons and convolute everything together as if you are baking a cake.......yep palani's advice sounds professional and proper doesn't it?
I'm not even going to mention the "subject" of each individual section to understand the "how's" and "what's" of each individual section to determine the "object" application.
I seriously don't think palani can decipher the "object" from the "subject" when it comes to application of law.


No palani, 12usc 411 says the federal reserve note is an obligation of the united states, one of the three sections you are purposely ignoring to justify your conspiracy mindset. The federal reserve notes use is noted (generally) in 411 here-



You do understand why you see "obligation to the Unites States" in the statute don't you?
Its because the federal reserve note replaced the US Treasure note. Reserve notes "function" no differently on the "obligation" level of US Treasury notes.
You buy items with it, pay all taxes and customs.....its functions no differently, but its not a Treasury note.

So where did Congress say not to use the federal reserve note?
I don't see that connotation in 12usc 411!
Where is it?
Please point this out in 411 for the people reading this!

I've got 7th dump on ignore, but for some reason felt compelled to view this post.

The TITLE of a law or statute is neither the law or the statutue nor the intent of the law or the statute - which is found in the body of the law or statute, NOT the TITLE. (a couple of prime examples: the USA-PATRIOT Act and the Affordable Care Act, the former not being patriotic whatsoever and the latter being neither affordable nor caring lol)

It is NOT possible to 'pay' (i.e. to extinguish) a debt with a debt (since FRNs are debt on their face) and anyone who 'uses' FRNs is engaging in fraud (the fraud being conversion of wealth/value/substance to the issuers of the FRNs), thus CONgress passed 12 USC 411 to cover their own asses. 12 USC 411 gives the appearance (color) of law to an unlawful activity. The vast majority of people have willful ignorance regarding this glaring fact. IMO anyone who fantasizes they are 'paying' for ANYTHING with FRNs is certifiably insane (indeed, from my observations most folks are walking zombies).

And FWIW, by law a 'note' is redeemable (for gold or silver coin in the case of a U.S. Note or a U.S. Treasury Note) however even though 12 USC 411 clearly states FRNs "shall be redeemed in lawful money (in this case 'lawful money' meaning gold or silver coin) on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." - the FACT that FRNs are NOT redeemable proves THE LIE (and therefore the underlying fraud).

[steel_ag]

tag tag

[7th trump]

I've got 7th dump on ignore, but for some reason felt compelled to view this post.

The TITLE of a law or statute is neither the law or the statutue nor the intent of the law or the statute - which is found in the body of the law or statute, NOT the TITLE. (a couple of prime examples: the USA-PATRIOT Act and the Affordable Care Act, the former not being patriotic whatsoever and the latter being neither affordable nor caring lol)

It is NOT possible to 'pay' (i.e. to extinguish) a debt with a debt (since FRNs are debt on their face) and anyone who 'uses' FRNs is engaging in fraud (the fraud being conversion of wealth/value/substance to the issuers of the FRNs), thus CONgress passed 12 USC 411 to cover their own asses. 12 USC 411 gives the appearance (color) of law to an unlawful activity. The vast majority of people have willful ignorance regarding this glaring fact. IMO anyone who fantasizes they are 'paying' for ANYTHING with FRNs is certifiably insane (indeed, from my observations most folks are walking zombies).

And FWIW, by law a 'note' is redeemable (for gold or silver coin in the case of a U.S. Note or a U.S. Treasury Note) however even though 12 USC 411 clearly states FRNs "shall be redeemed in lawful money (in this case 'lawful money' meaning gold or silver coin) on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." - the FACT that FRNs are NOT redeemable proves THE LIE (and therefore the underlying fraud).

I bet you don't have a clue to what you just said!
You just repeated what someone else said from another website.

I never said anything about the "TITLE" of a law being the law....all I pointed out was 12usc 411 has semicolons in the title so the reader is aware not to confuse the body of the law when interpreting the law........which palani is guilty of.

Am I understanding your premise is that fiat notes are a debt note and anything you purchase with these note is not really purchasing anything because a debt cannot pay off another debt?
Here's where your premise is wrong rambling comrade soviet sympathizer!

Currency is nothing but a "medium of exchange"......nothing more and nothing less.
You can have a large amount of stock piled "medium of exchange notes" (dollars) under your bed which is nothing but "stored labor" for the working class in the form of paper currency.
You can take that stored up medium of exchange (paper dollars) and purchase anything with it at any time you so desire.
So you tell me you communist sympathizer........where is the truth that paper notes are debt?
Show me how the wealthy are in fact poorer than someone having -0- "mediums of exchange"?

Palani has said in the past that millionaires are not wealthy, but millions in debt!
This notion is hilariously funny to me because a lot of people with stock piles of "mediums of exchange" don't live on the streets begging for a cup of coffee or eating out of garbage cans.
I don't see them being foreclosed on their lavish homes either or their vehicles being repo'ed because they have stockpiles of "mediums of exchange" (stored labor, or stored capital for the nonworking class).

Your turn grasshopper....please explain your silly premise!


For your edification (and you desperately need an education).......12usc 411 came into effect when the reserve banks took over for the US Treasury in 1913....however in 1933 (20 years later) the gold standard was "suspended" because the US went into default (bankrupt).
Reserve note were redeemed in gold up until the gold standard suspension of 1933.
Your confusion with 12usc 411's redemption clause rests with Roosevelt's gold suspension of 1933. This suspension stopped the redemption process......gold was confiscated which meant you US citizens weren't to have any gold in money form.
So really why would the government confiscate the gold to pay the bankruptcy and at the same time redeem reserve note back into the public as gold?
Now do you feel real stupid for opening your mouth with this 12usc 411 color of law bullshit?

You are as lazy to think for yourself and as confused as palani is!

[palani]

So I guess you GSUS'er are to read the law as if you are baking a cake.
I am saying once you combine INGREDIENTS you will have a darned hard time separating them again as you appear to be attempting to do.


These semicolons instruct the readers to notice there are three(3) individual aspects to what you are about to read Semicolons separate ideas but then everything gets blended together and becomes inseparable. 'Course I guess this is too hard a concept for your simple brain to process.

[palani]

even though 12 USC 411 clearly states FRNs "shall be redeemed in lawful money (in this case 'lawful money' meaning gold or silver coin) on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." - the FACT that FRNs are NOT redeemable proves THE LIE (and therefore the underlying fraud).
Lawful money for a state of the union is only gold or silver. I don't know that this excludes other forms of lawful money when NOT in a state of the union. The only aspect I can rationalize that is in common with gold and silver and other possible FORMS of lawful money (not for use in a state of the union) might be that no obligations are attached. So that when you ask for lawful money and a FRN is handed you that FRN now has a special attribute since you demanded lawful money ... namely .... no further obligations are attached. But I recognize I might very well be wrong on this issue so hopefully more people (who are not fanatics) will comment to shed light on the topic.

[palani]

Palani has said in the past that millionaires are not wealthy, but millions in debt!
This notion is hilariously funny to me because a lot of people with stock piles of "mediums of exchange" don't live on the streets begging for a cup of coffee or eating out of garbage cans.
I don't see them being foreclosed on their lavish homes either or their vehicles being repo'ed because they have stockpiles of "mediums of exchange" (stored labor, or stored capital for the nonworking class).
Anyone who values their estate in dollars when they don't have access to even the definition of ONE DOLLAR has no clue as to what millions of something UNDEFINED actually is. Anyone who does transactions in FRNs is conducting business in a bankrupt plane and by extension they also are asking for their share of the bankruptcy. YOU are the communist ... YOU are the one asking to share the shortages.

[mick silver]

what did i miss

[Ponce]

what did i miss

I used the bathroom and didn't wash my hands.......

V

[7th trump]

Anyone who values their estate in dollars when they don't have access to even the definition of ONE DOLLAR has no clue as to what millions of something UNDEFINED actually is. Anyone who does transactions in FRNs is conducting business in a bankrupt plane and by extension they also are asking for their share of the bankruptcy. YOU are the communist ... YOU are the one asking to share the shortages.

Really ...........America wasn't bankrupt when the federal reserve system went into effect in 1913.
You're implying by saying frn is a "bankrupt plane".
America didn't go bankrupt until 1933.....20 freaken years later after the reserve system was enacted!

So tell me grasshopper.....where's the damn evidence having frn's in ones pocket is operating on the "bankrupt plane"?

Do you even have a clue about history?
Learn a little history and you might understand a tad bit of law.
As of right now you're batting zero!

No, I'm not the communist.............I don't participate in Social Security where the government is taking from me.
You mentioned before you're on the Social Security dole by receiving social security retirement.......aka taking from one and giving to another(communism)......sounds like your the damn communist palani!

Wow you fail miserably!

[7th trump]

Sorry ponce for replying with a quote....but when click onto this site that's the only option I have until I log in.

[7th trump]

Lawful money for a state of the union is only gold or silver. I don't know that this excludes other forms of lawful money when NOT in a state of the union. The only aspect I can rationalize that is in common with gold and silver and other possible FORMS of lawful money (not for use in a state of the union) might be that no obligations are attached. So that when you ask for lawful money and a FRN is handed you that FRN now has a special attribute since you demanded lawful money ... namely .... no further obligations are attached. But I recognize I might very well be wrong on this issue so hopefully more people (who are not fanatics) will comment to shed light on the topic.

Where is this "lawful money" legal definition so everyone can see if in fact it even exist or is a pay-triot conspiracy myth?
The constitution only says the states can use gold and silver as payment.....so where is this "lawful money definition"?
I don't see "lawful money" in any legal dictionary.

[7th trump]

Anyone who values their estate in dollars when they don't have access to even the definition of ONE DOLLAR has no clue as to what millions of something UNDEFINED actually is. Anyone who does transactions in FRNs is conducting business in a bankrupt plane and by extension they also are asking for their share of the bankruptcy. YOU are the communist ... YOU are the one asking to share the shortages.

I could give a shit if everyone values their house in the Yuan. When the yuan goes south so does everything its valued in.
Big deal......whats your point about the dollar because the reality is..............nothing is safe?

[Ponce]

You can wash your hands over a container and then use the water for something else....or....you can wash your hands over the ground and wasted it away.......and that's what is going on with the US economy.

A house has a monetary value only if you are in real state but otherwise there is no value for it when it is your home.

V

[mick silver]

a house is a place to stay out of the rain an cold when you get old

[palani]

Really ...........America wasn't bankrupt when the federal reserve system went into effect in 1913.
Google " $346,681,016 " sometime. Try to find out the last date this number actually CHANGED.

[palani]

I don't see "lawful money" in any legal dictionary.
Why would you? Can't you pronounce "lawful money"?

[palani]

When the yuan goes south so does everything its valued in.
Is the yuan lawful money where you come from?

[palani]

A house has a monetary value only if you are in real state but otherwise there is no value for it when it is your home.

V

Your wife, should you have one, would have no monetary value either yet her attorney can tell you what she is worth to the penny, pound, franc and Deutschmark.

[7th trump]

Is the yuan lawful money where you come from?

Yep....your comments are reduced to stupidity.

No, actually I'm from the same lower wapsi river basin as you claim you live in now, but don't have an address there.
I'm from Grand Mound, Iowa.....and now live in Davenport, Iowa.

[palani]

I'm from the same lower wapsi river basin as you claim you live in now, but don't have an address there.
I'm from Grand Mound, Iowa
Grand Mound isn't in the Lower Wapsipinicon Watershed. Instead its in Clinton County and has nothing at all to do with the watershed.


now live in Davenport, Iowa.
Born in Copperas-Duck.