Congressional Hearings to Provide Bitcoin Enlightenment? - See more at: http://www.th

[mick silver]

http://www.thedailybell.com/images/library/moneyenlightenment150.jpgCongressional Hearings to Provide Bitcoin Enlightenment? By Staff Report - November 14, 2013

A Bitcoin Exchange Holding $4.1 Million For 1,000 Customers Has Simply Vanished ... A Chinese Bitcoin exchange that held up to $4.1 million in users' accounts has gone offline and everyone involved with it has vanished, according to CoinDesk. – Business Insider
Dominant Social Theme: Bitcoin is a suspicious kind of money.
Free-Market Analysis: We've written several articles somewhat critical of bitcoin, which has predictably generated a wave of irritated feedbacks from the faithful.
And certainly bitcoin has its defenders. In fact, the electronic currency has considerable value according to quoted prices, though how useful it is as an actual conveyance of value from buyer to seller continues to be questioned.
Our criticisms fell mainly into three categories, and we think those criticisms remain relevant today, especially considering the problems bitcoin is encountering of late, as we can see in the article.
First of all, we suggested that bitcoin might have been created by Western Intel as a way of anticipating a wave of electronic currencies birthed by the Internet. Might as well get the problem out in the open, so-to-speak.



Our main reason for this suspicion was the truly incredible bitcoin backstory. Supposedly the bitcoin concept originated with a Japanese inventor who called himself Satoshi Nakamoto. Satoshi deposited directions for bitcoin on the Internet, and the rest is history. Satoshi, dramatically, has never been heard from again.
We also suggested that bitcoin wasn't as secure as those involved in its operation believed it was. The anonymous facility that bitcoin employs is called TOR, short for the The Onion Router (http://www.thedailybell.com/definitions/params/id/4344/). The Pentagon (http://www.thedailybell.com/definitions/params/id/28349/)'s DARPA was involved with its creation, which is kind of ironic considering that those using Bitcoin are counting on TOR to provide anonymity against various official facilities.
TOR obviously didn't save the founder of Silk Road who was just arrested for abetting drug trafficking. And, according to Wikipedia, recent attacks on Freedom Hosting users show TOR vulnerabilities in servers and web browsers, which is part of what we had suggested initially.
Finally, there is the issue of gold-as-money and the attitude of bitcoin users that its success thus far is proof-positive that precious metals (http://www.thedailybell.com/definitions/params/id/804/) are old-fashioned and that digital currencies will render them deservedly obsolete. We disagree. It's naïve, as gold and silver have been used as money metals for millennia.
Even more disturbing, there is at least a tendency of supporters to conflate bitcoin with the noxious public banking movement that embraces any kind of money that is not based on precious metals. But there is no doubt that precious metals are money; they have come under attack in the modern era because globalists want to do away with all kinds of money and currency with the exception of central-bank controlled digital ones. Bitcoin enthusiasts that use the currency as a jumping-off-point to attack gold and silver are unwittingly supporting this crowd.
Of course, as bitcoin has grown more successful, the attacks on this first, major digital currency have grown shriller as well. This Business Insider article is a case in point, insinuating that bitcoin, because it is unregulated, is more subject to criminal calamities than regulated money. Here's more:
The GBL exchange claimed to be based in Hong Kong but turns out to have been headquartered in China. The Hong Kong Standard reports: The company appears to have launched in May 2013, with its domain btc-glb.com registered on 9th May and a post later that month by Bitcoin Talk forum user zhaoxianpeng promoting the site. Some mainlanders went to the IFC office listed on its website, but this turned out to be a false address. Fourteen of them made a report to the Hong Kong police.
WantChinaTimes notes that GBL had not obtained any of the usual business licenses required to operate a financial services company. Bitcoin banks and exchanges have a habit of disappearing, the WCT says: Research conducted by Southern Methodist University assistant professor Tyler Moore and Carnegie Mellon University assistant professor Nicolas Christin found that 18 of the 40 Bitcoin trading platforms set up in the past three years had closed, including TradeHill, which was once the second largest in terms of transaction volume.
We have noted in the past certain bitcoin exchange difficulties, but we've never made the argument that these problems showed the necessity for further regulation. In fact, the lack of bitcoin regulation is one reason to recommend it.
Another reason to recommend it is the upcoming congressional hearing. The Senate is apparently sufficiently worried about bitcoin to hold formal hearings. Here's more:
Andrew Beal, a lawyer who focuses on helping businesses with federal and state securities compliance as part of the firm Crowley Strategy, says these hearings will only help government better understand bitcoin.
"The legal and regulatory foundation for virtual currencies will be laid over the next few years; these hearings are an opportunity to ensure that lawmakers are getting the right information from the right people," he said.
Englund, expressed optimism that representatives from the bitcoin industry would be involved. "It would certainly enrich the hearing to invite bitcoin experts from academia, venture capitalists (http://www.thedailybell.com/definitions/params/id/1903/) and entrepreneurs of bitcoin companies."
She said it's a first step towards literacy and understanding, adding: "As the first congressional hearings on bitcoin, we expect this to be more introductory and educational in nature."
Notice the US Senate has in mind laying the "legal and regulatory framework for virtual currencies." Apparently, they haven't gotten the message that bitcoin was SUPPOSED to be resistant to government rules regarding money.
Nonetheless, the US Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs decided that the 18th of November will be the date for a hearing on bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. The hearing is entitled, "Beyond Silk Road: Potential Risks, Threats, and Promises of Virtual Currencies," and one wonders if the FBI (http://www.thedailybell.com/definitions/params/id/2344/)'s raid on Silk Road was coordinated with the hearings.
Bitcoin's value according to bitcoin exchanges remains impressively high. However, we remain skeptical of bitcoin for the three reasons we enunciated at the beginning of this article. Like WikiLeaks and even Edward Snowden, bitcoin gets a fair amount of publicity in the mainstream media (http://www.thedailybell.com/definitions/params/id/1861/), which also makes us suspicious – as do its stubbornly high valuations.

- See more at: http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/34750/Congressional-Hearings-to-Provide-Bitcoin-Enlightenment/#sthash.2orHdwBi.dpuf

[mick silver]

Conclusion Perhaps we will learn more about bitcoin and where it is headed during the hearings. One thing is certain: Digital currencies are becoming increasingly common. Time will tell whether bitcoin can retain its value along with anonymity.
- See more at: http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/34750/Congressional-Hearings-to-Provide-Bitcoin-Enlightenment/#sthash.2orHdwBi.dpuf

[mick silver]

21 comments some are good an some bad for bitcoin

............. 1. What a great way to usher in a world currency. Get the hard money crowd on board first by positioning it as an alternative to fiat currency within the libertarian circles. As it gains momentum, the rest will jump on board soon enough.
2. How convenient it is that Bitcoin seems to be siphoning investment capital away from precious metals at a time when they are under intense pressure. Some Austrians who are disenfranchised with the performance of gold & Silver are moving toward it with great zeal, most under the delusion that somehow BTC isn't a fiat currency. BTC is backed by a computer algorithm tied to a counterparty of the internet as well as the electric grid. At least I can hold dollars in my hand.

[Blink]

1. What a great way to usher in a world currency. Get the hard money crowd on board first by positioning it as an alternative to fiat currency within the libertarian circles. As it gains momentum, the rest will jump on board soon enough.


Yup, thats the ticket. Seems when you bring this "common sense" point up, the pumpers get right riled up. Its as plain as day and about as obvious as you can get. So willing to embrace another invented imaginary fiat currency, what a disaster.........

[Ares]

Yup, thats the ticket. Seems when you bring this "common sense" point up, the pumpers get right riled up. Its as plain as day and about as obvious as you can get. So willing to embrace another invented imaginary fiat currency, what a disaster.........

What the fuck ever, you still have yet to prove to me or anyone here that its controlled by anyone. If it's "Plain as day" as you say, then where is this proof that you speak of? As the saying goes put up or shut up.


I told you before, you don't even know the fucking definition of the word FIAT. If you're going to bash a currency at least know the definition of the word. FIAT is by government decree. MEANING for the reading comprehensive inept among us, that the Government has decreed the currency and it's value.

And the idiot making the comment that Bitcoin is backed by a computer algorithm is full of shit. It isn't backed by anything. Backing means it can be redeemed. I can't turn in a bitcoin to anywhere and get a mathematical algorithm returned.

Jesus for supposedly a "learned" bunch you guys can't make heads or tales of cryptography or computers in general. Why even use the internet? You can be tracked, every word spoken recorded. Why use a phone? It can be tracked, every conversation recorded. I bet it was a conspiracy by the elite to get everyone on this whole phone communication thing so that they can monitor everything. It's "plain as day" as the stupid say.

[Horn]

Conclusion

Perhaps we will learn more about bitcoin and where it is headed during the hearings. One thing is certain: Digital currencies are becoming increasingly common. Time will tell whether bitcoin can retain its value along with anonymity.


First things first,

you need to get some young lieutenant puppet on the inside, to head up its largest exchange base for at least a generation...


5679

Fred Ehrsam joins Coinbase (http://blog.coinbase.com/post/39672092708/fred-ehrsam-joins-coinbase)

I’m pleased to announce that Fred Ehrsam has joined Coinbase as employee #1.


Prior to joining Coinbase, Fred worked at Goldman Sachs as a foreign exchange trader, where he traded both manually and managed their electronic market making platform, supporting in the $ billions in flow a day. Fred has also worked at BlackRock, one of the largest asset managers in the world, and has been published in the Duke Journal of Economics. Fred graduated with latin honors and departmental distinction in computer science and economics at Duke.

He has been trading bitcoin for close to 2 years, and has built some impressive solutions (both on the trading algorithm and mobile application side) as a software engineer. He also led the #1 ranked team (both in the U.S. and Europe) for the video game America’s Army when he was 16!


Please join me in welcoming Fred to the team.

http://blog.coinbase.com/post/39672092708/fred-ehrsam-joins-coinbase

Guaranteed prompt senate subcommittee hearings afterwards. You need a good left hand whip.

[Ares]

First things first,

you need to get some young lieutenant puppet on the inside, to head up its largest exchange base for at least generation..





http://blog.coinbase.com/post/39672092708/fred-ehrsam-joins-coinbase

I also had concerns about them bringing on a former goldman sachs stooge. I don't use coinbase, and never will. I'll take my business else where.

Coinbase is hardly "the largest" its one of the smallest exchanges on the planet by volume. What they do in a day, MtGox or BTCChina does in hour.

[Horn]

One of the huge pitfalls of being a bitch slave to the "free market" dollar,

and not setting up your own proprietary atmosphere to operate in firstly.



INSIDE MT GOX (http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/04/inside-mt-gox/)


The moment MT Gox was purchased,I had a feeling that had been compromised.These banksters have been trying to destroy Bitcoins from its infancy and what better way to do it,than being a insider-example buying out a exchange.Do yourself a favor,be smart and dont do business with MT Gox,becuase doing business with them,is like doing business with the likes of JP Morgan.Banksters like vampires are destoyed by placing a stake thru thier cruel and greedy hearts,in the case of banksters,simply denying them access to your money,is enough to put them out to pasture.



Oh contraire', a great milking always includes the option to destroy.

Well if the were anything to destroy or for you to fight back with...beside nothingness.

[Ares]

This article is so full of bullshit, and misinformation you need waders on just to read it.


Our main reason for this suspicion was the truly incredible bitcoin backstory. Supposedly the bitcoin concept originated with a Japanese inventor who called himself Satoshi Nakamoto. Satoshi deposited directions for bitcoin on the Internet, and the rest is history. Satoshi, dramatically, has never been heard from again.

The inventor(s) doesn't matter. The cryptography and source code behind it is completely open source. Anyone can view it. No one knows the hidden hand behind our current financial and monetary system, so does that mean we shouldn't use it because we have no idea whose behind it? I'm all for sidelining it, but this statement is just misdirection. The question should be Why did this individual feel compelled to create an alternative to begin with? The answer is in the Bitcoin White paper, which the hold outs here for some reason or another refuse to even read. Ignorance is bliss I guess.


We also suggested that bitcoin wasn't as secure as those involved in its operation believed it was. The anonymous facility that bitcoin employs is called TOR, short for the The Onion Router. The Pentagon's DARPA was involved with its creation, which is kind of ironic considering that those using Bitcoin are counting on TOR to provide anonymity against various official facilities.
TOR obviously didn't save the founder of Silk Road who was just arrested for abetting drug trafficking. And, according to Wikipedia, recent attacks on Freedom Hosting users show TOR vulnerabilities in servers and web browsers, which is part of what we had suggested initially.

Typical fucking journalist anymore. Bitcoin does not rely upon TOR. This guy is a fucking moron. He also didn't even bother to read the Dread Pirate Roberts indictment. He was caught because when he first started promoting Silk Road on public blogs (OUTSIDE OF TOR) He had his bitcointalk.com account linked to his personal e-mail account. Even the FBI Indictment said tracking anyone over TOR is impossible. It was because DPR was sloppy with his identity that he got caught, nothing security related was compromised. Another misinformation statement.


Finally, there is the issue of gold-as-money and the attitude of bitcoin users that its success thus far is proof-positive that precious metals are old-fashioned and that digital currencies will render them deservedly obsolete. We disagree. It's naïve, as gold and silver have been used as money metals for millennia.

True, Bitcoin is not a replacement to Gold or Silver. Those 2 WILL ALWAYS BE MONEY. As they are a store of value, and a safe haven. Always have been, and ALWAYS will be. I haven't seen anyone saying Bitcoin will replace gold or silver as a store of value. Now for commerce that much is certain, gold and silver are not adequately suited for global commerce due to insurance, transportation logistics. Transporting anything 5,000+ miles is a pain, forget transporting 1 ounce for something you bought in Europe from the comfort of your own home. I have yet to see someone come up with a viable solution to that problem. How do you make gold and silver compatible for global commerce? If you say digital redeemable gold exchange, you're still trusting someone to 1.) Hold your gold, and 2.) Pay the individual or company you purchased something from. Bitcoins are trustless, meaning I'm the sole person responsible for paying for something that I wanted to buy. There is no 3rd party. No one else gets a cut of the exchange.


Notice the US Senate has in mind laying the "legal and regulatory framework for virtual currencies." Apparently, they haven't gotten the message that bitcoin was SUPPOSED to be resistant to government rules regarding money.

They can try, and they most certainly will. But how do you regulate a currency that has no issuing authority?

[Ares]

One of the huge pitfalls of being a bitch slave to the "free market" dollar,

and not setting up your own proprietary atmosphere to operate in firstly.



Oh contraire', a great milking always includes the option to destroy.

Well if the were anything to destroy or for you to fight back with...beside nothingness.

:rolleyes:

I guess no one told Mt.Gox that they were working with JP Morgan considering the FED's have seized over 5million U.S. dollars from them.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/23/feds-seize-another-2-1-million-from-mt-gox-adding-up-to-5-million/

Maybe they didn't decide to play ball, and it wasn't excuse an that they didn't fill out their money exchange regulatory work correctly?

[Horn]

:rolleyes:

I guess no one told Mt.Gox that they were working with JP Morgan considering the FED's have seized over 5million U.S. dollars from them.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/23/feds-seize-another-2-1-million-from-mt-gox-adding-up-to-5-million/

Maybe they didn't decide to play ball, and it wasn't excuse an that they didn't fill out their money exchange regulatory work correctly?

Seizing, collecting, you're practicing semantics.

One and the same.

[Ares]

Seizing, collecting, you're practicing semantics.

One and the same.

Bullshit. Collecting requires voluntary compliance. Seizing is the act of taking by force. It is not semantics. Words have definitions, you should probably know what the definitions are before attempting to convey your "logic".

[Horn]

If Mt.Gox was seized upon, they'd end up just like Liberty Reserve.

[sirgonzo420]

If Mt.Gox was seized upon, they'd end up just like Liberty Reserve.


If you knew the *history*, dear horn, you would know that it is not "Mt. Gox".

MTGOX was originally "Magic the Gathering Online Exchange", and when Bitcoin came upon the scene, the holder of that website, intended for the Magic card game (which is kinda dungeons & dragony in my estimation, for those who aren't familiar), decided to launch the first Bitcoin exchange, which ended up becoming the largest exchange until fairly recently, with the rise of Chinese exchanges and other competitors.

[Ares]

If Mt.Gox was seized upon, they'd end up just like Liberty Reserve.

Uh huh sure. Liberty Reserve was a CENTRALLY controlled Digital Currency based in Costa Rica. Mt.Gox is a bitcoin EXCHANGE where you have to be completely validated in order to even buy or sell to do business there.. Why it wasn't taken offline, Liberty Reserve on the other hand.. Well here's what the criminal indictment says: " Liberty Reserve made no effort to verify identities of its users."

But why even bother educating you about your apples and oranges comparison? You're pretty much left throwing shit like a monkey in a zoo hoping to find something, anything that will stick to comply with your perceived world view.

[Ares]

If you knew the *history*, dear horn, you would know that it is not "Mt. Gox".

MTGOX was originally "Magic the Gathering Online Exchange", and when Bitcoin came upon the scene, the holder of that website, intended for the Magic card game (which is kinda dungeons & dragony in my estimation, for those who aren't familiar), decided to launch the first Bitcoin exchange, which ended up becoming the largest exchange until fairly recently, with the rise of Chinese exchanges and other competitors.

Also lacks a basic understanding of history, mathematics, cryptography, fiat, computers, cell phones, even the relation of Gold and Silver in the modern world, how much is held in private (read elite) hands compared to the quantities held by the public... Seems to be completely inept about the whole subject matter altogether. I've about given up on him. He's a lost cause and seems to be perfectly happy and content with it.

[sirgonzo420]

Also lacks a basic understanding of history, mathematics, cryptography, fiat, computers, cell phones, even the relation of Gold and Silver in the modern world, how much is held in private (read elite) hands compared to the quantities held by the public... Seems to be completely inept about the whole subject matter altogether. I've about given up on him. He's a lost cause and seems to be perfectly happy and content with it.

I think he's just "booking" with us. I don't mind the banter - other readers may gain something from it.

Anyway, I figured that he would get a kick of how MTGOX came about... sort of Mickey Mouse beginnings.... but then again look at Mickey Mouse and Disney today; they aren't exactly in the poorhouse!

;D

[Ares]

I think he's just "booking" with us. I don't mind the banter - other readers may gain something from it.

Anyway, I figured that he would get a kick of how MTGOX came about... sort of Mickey Mouse beginnings.... but then again look at Mickey Mouse and Disney today; they aren't exactly in the poorhouse!

;D

Booking... Good word.. lol Yeah most likely. I also thought it was pretty interesting how they came about. Magic The Gathering, then someone ask, hey can we trade Bitcoins too? Site operator if I can remember the dialog correctly said "I don't see why not" and became their number 1 business. Funny how stuff like that works out. But also showed they lacked the infrastructure to secure Bitcoins in their early days. I mean who was going to put in the effort to steal Magic the Gather playing cards?

[Horn]

If you knew the *history*, dear horn, you would know that it is not "Mt. Gox".

We are explaining the differences between seizure and collections here. Not the differences in the exchanges themselves.

But as is typical the perverted, divert the topic.

You need to go here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292283.0

[Horn]

Let's discuss then this bastion of the diversified & decentralized nothingness, Mt. Gox

if that's the current diversion.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/gox-screen.jpg

TOKYO, Japan — Mark Karpeles is the man who built the world’s largest bitcoin exchange. But now that the digital currency is reaching the mainstream, his success may slip through his fingers.


In 2011, Karpeles bought a fledgling website called Mt. Gox. Founded a few years earlier by an unemployed software hacker named Jed McCaleb, the site was originally an online marketplace where people could buy and sell cards for Magic: The Gathering, a weirdly addictive trading card game. Mt. Gox was short for “Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange.” But then McCaleb turned it into a website where people could exchange cash for bitcoins, a digital currency that had only just found its way onto the internet, and just as the exchange started to take off, he sold it to Karpeles.


Under Karpeles, Mt. Gox evolved into a reliable marketplace for buying and selling bitcoins, now the world’s most popular digital currency. By one estimate, Karpeles has made over $8 million plus 345,000 bitcoins (at current rates: $86 million) swapping bitcoins for dollars and yen and other federal currencies. But much like McCaleb, he’s a hacker rather than a businessman. He seems more at home talking about IRC than the IMF, and as Mt. Gox has grown, he and his company have found it difficult to deal with the realities of the financial world.... ...

....Even for those who count themselves among Mt. Gox’s friends, this interview was a bit weird. You can’t take the interview seriously if you have “the CEO of the most important business in bitcoin sitting on top of a bouncy ball talking about world-changing ideas,” says Roger Ver, an early bitcoin investor who knows Karpeles well and considers him a friend. And when you consider its ongoing banking woes, and how opaque Mt. Gox has been about explaining them, the company is even harder to believe in.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/11/mtgox/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLjlOw3TVc8#t=33

[madfranks]

I think he's just "booking" with us. I don't mind the banter - other readers may gain something from it.

Agreed. Enough has been posted here in the last 6 months on the realities of crypto-currencies that nobody can remain ignorant of it unless they choose to. Honestly I've been getting kind of tired of all the back and forth re: bitcoins on this forum lately. If half of GSUS thinks they're a ponzi scheme or a short lived fad, great. For the other half who are intrigued enough to learn and understand the ideas behind it, great. No skin off my back either way. But, FWIW, I'm glad I learned about them early enough to get in back when 1 bitcoin was between $30-40.

[mick silver]

http://www.thedailybell.com/images/library/shock105.jpg

[Horn]

No skin off my back either way.


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Now that bitcoin is in league with one of the other greatest demigods of the land "The U.S. Senate", It is every good man's duty to at least do something to stop one of the "The Greatest Evils" we've ever known from eclipsing the face of our fair and great planet.

A world of absolute nothingness stands opposed to us, and in the midst of our intrinsic Silver realm.

The Bloodthirster has been summoned, we must stand together if we're to survive.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTmkowx_1xk

[Horn]

Also lacks a basic understanding of history, mathematics, cryptography, fiat, computers, cell phones, even the relation of Gold and Silver in the modern world, how much is held in private (read elite) hands compared to the quantities held by the public...


Mining Your iPhone for Gold & Silver- the Infographic


You’ve heard rumors and reports of all the physical gold and silver that is headed to the landfill every year via discarded electronics- but just how much gold, silver, and platinum is really in your iPhone or tablet? According to Ken Beyer, CEO of the Electronics Recycling Company, there is in fact more gold in a pound of electronics than in a pound of rich gold ore.
Forget South Africa, is Urban Mining the future for gold and silver producers/ recyclers?
Mining Your iPhone for Gold & Silver- the Infographic

http://www.silverdoctors.com/mining-your-iphone-for-gold-silver-the-infographic/




Once again the powers of darkness lay in waste, and grovel at my knee, scattering and fading from every challenged thread.

This site and forum is only for champions of the real world, not surfs of the virtual.

Even after a constant berating and degrading they come back for more, as any sick, sadistic, less than nothingness race would.

[Ares]

Once again the powers of darkness lay in waste, and grovel at my knee, scattering and fading from every challenged thread.

This site and forum is only for champions of the real world, not surfs of the virtual.

Even after a constant berating and degrading they come back for more, as any sick, sadistic, less than nothingness race would.

Horn, shut the fuck up. You wouldn't know the first product inside a cell phone that contains gold or silver.

Powers of darkness :rolleyes: fucking pathetic that you think you have any legitimacy in declaring anything in any of these "battles". Like I said, you're a monkey in a zoo throwing shit hoping something will stick. You're ignorance and sheer stupidity has been pointed out time and time again. Yet you still come back with complete absurdity that you're some how a victor? LOL Get real. Do you talk like this in real life? Why the fuck are you here Horn? This is a virtual world is it not? Do the letters on this screen exist? Do anything you type or put out on the web exist at all? It exist as 1's or 0's. Why should anything you do or say in the virtual world have any value or bearing in the physical world?

Grow the fuck up, you're a champion of stupidity, idiocy and lunacy. You have yet to show any evidence of any crypto currency being "controlled".

Keep promoting your absurd notion of reality. Next time you want to at least acknowledge some form of intelligence, at least study the subject matter. Because you just look fucking ridiculous.

I'm done debating you, you're just too fucking stupid to get anything outside your perverse version of reality.

[vacuum]

You guys are lucky to have people here willing to explain everything repeatedly and try to make convincing arguments. I have a feeling bitcoin would exist and do well even if people here weren't supporting it.

There are a lot more people on bitcointalk than there are on gsus or the deuce.

[Horn]

I'm done debating you, you're just too fucking stupid to get anything outside your perverse version of reality.

Once again, only a retreat from contention. Your Crypto & E-flakes are only as good as the pockets they are contained in.

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/google-confirms-critical-android-crypto-flaw-used-in-5700-bitcoin-heist/ (http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/google-confirms-critical-android-crypto-flaw-used-in-5700-bitcoin-heist/)

To wit, exactly the same as your lame virtual sword that deflates and withers when presented to the real world,
the flaw is in its wielder and foundry. If there were one thread promoting Bitcoin on site in anyway other than its rise in comparison to snake oil $ maybe we could benefit, but alas.

Great mortar work from micksilver with this thread creation, "on target" as usual.

We have sent one of Bitcoin's main imps packin, True Enlightenment.

[Hypertiger]

Bitcoin is a computer virus Trojan/videogame a kid sitting on a toilet grunted out basically...That you all have fallen for.

[vacuum]

Bitcoin is a computer virus Trojan/videogame a kid sitting on a toilet grunted out basically...That you all have fallen for.

Actually it might be worse than that. The future could actually not be that great:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Agents

[EE_]

Is there any way of knowing how much real cash is in Bitcoin? Who's holding it?

[sirgonzo420]

Is there any way of knowing how much real cash is in Bitcoin? Who's holding it?

The market capitalization is about $6,000,000,000.00 right now ($6 billion).

The Chinese have recently taken an ever-increasing interest in Bitcoin.

[Ares]

Is there any way of knowing how much real cash is in Bitcoin? Who's holding it?

This site has a list of most of the known Crypto Currencies that can be traded. It also list their market caps for the coins.

http://coinmarketcap.com/

[Horn]

Actually it might be worse than that. The future could actually not be that great:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Agents

The E-Flake of skynet, Agent Smith of machine utopia Borgbaby


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu4PAMFPo5Y

[EE_]

The market capitalization is about $6,000,000,000.00 right now ($6 billion).

The Chinese have recently taken an ever-increasing interest in Bitcoin.

I guess I'm saying there's no actual money in bitcoin. If trading came to a complete halt, they would be worth 0.
So how does the price go up...who clicks the dollar number higher? There are no people bidding on the coins.

I'm guessing it's in the code, or the exchange is clicking up the price.

Say there's two buyers and one seller, does a bitcoin price go up 1/100 of a percent?
Or with two sellers and one buyer, it clicks down 1/100 of a percent.

Who or what changes the price

[Horn]

Who or what changes the price

http://skybin.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/blockchain-mining-pool-distribution.png

That 20% unknown wedge is actually the NSA mainframe,

it is a greedy miner that holds its coinage and bids up the entire market.



“The assumption that X% of the hashpower cannot earn more than X% of the revenue is almost certainly not true, once X% exceeds 33.3%,” the researchers say.

http://threatpost.com/selfish-miners-could-exploit-p2p-nature-of-bitcoin-network

[madfranks]

I guess I'm saying there's no actual money in bitcoin. If trading came to a complete halt, they would be worth 0.
So how does the price go up...who clicks the dollar number higher? There are no people bidding on the coins.

I'm guessing it's in the code, or the exchange is clicking up the price.

Say there's two buyers and one seller, does a bitcoin price go up 1/100 of a percent?
Or with two sellers and one buyer, it clicks down 1/100 of a percent.

Who or what changes the price

Visit BTC-e, and you can see long lists of buy and sell orders. When those orders match, transactions occur and the price is updated. For instance, if BTC is $500, I put in a buy order for $501, and you put in a sell order for $501, the exchange happens and the latest current price is now $501. Thousands of buyers and sellers shape the market and affect the price constantly.

[sirgonzo420]

I guess I'm saying there's no actual money in bitcoin. If trading came to a complete halt, they would be worth 0.
So how does the price go up...who clicks the dollar number higher? There are no people bidding on the coins.

I'm guessing it's in the code, or the exchange is clicking up the price.

Say there's two buyers and one seller, does a bitcoin price go up 1/100 of a percent?
Or with two sellers and one buyer, it clicks down 1/100 of a percent.

Who or what changes the price

The laws of supply and demand govern the price.

The free market is the price discovery method.

Bitcoin is limited by mathematics, and it does have value as a protocol, like email does (even if you don't use emails and don't know anybody who does).

People have chosen to exchange FRNs and other national currencies as well as gold and silver and goods and services for bitcoin. There are more buyers than sellers, at least, that is the trend overall, and so the price has risen from $0.001 to $500+ today.

[EE_]

Visit BTC-e, and you can see long lists of buy and sell orders. When those orders match, transactions occur and the price is updated. For instance, if BTC is $500, I put in a buy order for $501, and you put in a sell order for $501, the exchange happens and the latest current price is now $501. Thousands of buyers and sellers shape the market and affect the price constantly.

So you are saying you are bidding up the price. If bitcoin is $500 and you want to buy, you could just put in an order for $500, but you pick a number higher.

Like I asked, if bitcoin trades were halted...with a market cap of 6 billion...would there be 6 billion dollars of winners and 6 billion dollars of losers. I'm thinking no. I just don't think that much money has traded hands.

[EE_]

http://skybin.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/blockchain-mining-pool-distribution.png

That 20% unknown wedge is actually the NSA mainframe,

it is a greedy miner that holds its coinage and bids up the entire market.



http://threatpost.com/selfish-miners-could-exploit-p2p-nature-of-bitcoin-network

So it's in the code, it's automatic.

[Horn]

So it's in the code, it's automatic.

No, no trades are automated.

If you mine a Bitcoin it doesn't register until its sold, or bought into the umaterra blockchain.

Is why they need traders and lightning fast chain computer pools to mine so soon in its short lifespan.

Satoshi digs middlemen. The more the better, good for bidness.

A better system would to have been to reward those that actually transact, like a Discovery not even plastic card.

[Ares]

No, no trades are automated.

If you mine a Bitcoin it doesn't register until its sold, or bought into the umaterra blockchain.

Is why they need traders and lightning fast chain computer pools to mine so soon in its short lifespan.

Satoshi digs middlemen. The more the better, good for bidness.

A better system would to have been to reward those that actually transact, like a Discovery not even plastic card.

Good god, just shut the fuck up already Horn. You know next to SHIT about Bitcoin or crypto currencies in general. Are you really this fucking stupid? Please tell me your not this fucking moronic. Are you able to wipe your ass without assistance? What about even turning your computer on? You have kids or something that just slap a keyboard in front of you to type out whatever random bullshit you think of? Because you're not on the mark on any of your bullshit assumptions. Least of all how the bitcoin network even works. So please, do yourself and all of us a favor and just SHUT THE FUCK UP already. You do not comment on a subject you know jack shit about and absolutely REFUSE to learn it. So just shut the fuck up and fuck off.

If you mine a bitcoin it is REGISTERED in the blockchain as a REWARD for the block completion the MOMENT of generation. Bitcoin does not depend on trading anymore than Dollar, Yuan, or Euro, Gold or Silver depends on trading. Trading is a function of seeking profit amongst individuals.

You know jack shit about anything. Why anyone would take you seriously is really telling of their bullshit perception because you just spew it on an ongoing basis. None stop constant flow of complete and utter bullshit.


Is why they need traders and lightning fast chain computer pools to mine so soon in its short lifespan.

Umm no it isn't. See my comment above about you not knowing jack shit.

[Horn]

But now Eyal and Sirer say that’s not true and have worked out how a selfish group of miners could take over the currency. “We show that the conventional wisdom is wrong,” they say.

The trick is to mine for Bitcoins but to keep the results secret. This creates a fork in the blockchain so that one half of the fork is public and the other half is secret.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/521521/bitcoin-vulnerability-could-allow-malicious-miners-to-seize-control/



You're thinking too conventionally, Ares

Read the bold above. Umaterra & increased difficulty needs vast computer pools, and profit pirates can't resist.

Satoshi loves being the middleman so much he should've made himself into a chinese finger trap.

That's all this system will end up turning into.

[Horn]

Bitcoin Mining Chips, a High-Tech Arms Race
The easiest way to get a Bitcoin is to buy one. You can join drug dealers, speculators, and the curious by hopping onto an online exchange and purchasing one unit of the digital currency for, as of Nov. 11, about $340. But you can get Bitcoins for free by mining them, and a new breed of chips will soon make doing that a lot faster. “You would need 70,000 Intel chips (http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/industries/detail/semiconductors-devices) to equal what one of ours can do,” says Eduardo de Castro, co-founder of Bitcoin chipmaker HashFast Technologies.


Each Bitcoin has to be verified on a virtual ledger of all the Bitcoins ever circulated. Anyone can download some software and get a copy of this ledger, but to add to it, you must become a Bitcoin miner. That means you set your computer to work performing cryptographic calculations to decode elements of the currency system and confirm the validity of transactions, which then get added to the main record. The reward for this work is about 25 Bitcoins. The catch: Only one person every 10 minutes earns this prize, by solving the calculations before anyone else.


Mining Bitcoins is already a specialist’s game. Butterfly Labs and KnCMiner build special Bitcoin-mining hardware that they sell to individuals and groups of people who pool their money to amass lots of computers. Then there’s the Bitcoin discussion forum user known as BitFury, believed to be a self-taught chip designer from Ukraine, who “designed a chip at his kitchen table,” de Castro says. “He’s made a huge pile of cash” by selling machines using the chips on his website.


BitFury and other first-wave Bitcoin hardware makers will face competition in 2014 from a second wave of designers, who aim to speed the mining process with special chips known as application-specific integrated circuits, or ASICs. The circuits’ creators include HashFast, which has used cutting-edge chip design techniques to produce computers that sell for $11,700 each. CoinTerra has raised $1.5 million; its chief executive officer, Ravi Iyengar, used to design chips at Samsung Electronics (005930:KS (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=005930:KS)) and Nvidia (NVDA (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=NVDA)). Secretive startup 21E6, another mining-machine seller, is believed to be backed by some of the wealthiest people in Silicon Valley; its co-founder is Balaji Srinivasan, a former Stanford University professor and data-mining expert.


The latest and greatest equipment from these companies should begin arriving in December, kicking off what the startups hope will be a massive spending spree by Bitcoin miners. “It really is an arms race,” says David Kanter, a chip analyst and consultant. “If you’re one of the first people to get one of these, then boom, you will make some real money. But once everyone has one, it’s back to square one.” Individual miners who get outspent by larger groups will end up with basically worthless hardware unless they can pool it into something larger, he says. As he says about BitFury, “I am sure he made more money from the hardware than the morons who bought.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-14/2014-outlook-bitcoin-mining-chips-a-high-tech-arms-race

[Ares]

Ohh I forgot to mention, to make it more of a level "playing field" I'm not even going to bother reading any of your responses. It's of little interest to me, and besides, why should I entertain reading your material when you can't even bring your lazy ass to read mine?

Have a good day. :)

[Santa]

I think Bitcoin is an intentional speculative bubble. The basic assumption is that it's price discovery is due to free market supply and demand, but what if the demand/bubble is being blown by the same "Big Money" that determines the price of most other speculative bubbles? In other words, what prevents the Big Money Boys, who create FRN's out of thin air, from investing in Bitcoin themselves, buying up enough virtual coin to be able to control the supply/demand equation, thus creating a near perfect Pump and Dump operation? It's completely anonymous after all. But is it really unregulated? Ok, it's not being regulated by "official" government bureaucracy, but there's nothing to prevent it's price from being regulated by the Money Masters who "own" government to begin with.

What I see happening is that this speculative money for nothing, chicks for free thing going on with Bitcoin, is that it is in fact, destroying its actual viability as an alternative
currency. A currency intended to allow real transactions between real people, real goods and real services. In real time.

All this effusive Get Rich Quick on Bitcoin bullshit is turning an interesting novel concept into a Las Vegas Casino Operation. It's turning honest folks into a gaggle of little sweaty palmed, beady eyed gambling junkies. I hate this bullshit.

An alternative currency must have as a basic attribute, a stable standard value upon which to stand. Otherwise, it's just more of the same bullshit that's destroying the world, turning everyone's heads into mush.

The idea of investing in money to make money was born out of Satan's black crusty asshole. :mad:

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/jackconrad/junk/bubbles.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/jackconrad/media/junk/bubbles.jpg.html)

[sirgonzo420]

I think Bitcoin is an intentional speculative bubble. The basic assumption is that it's price discovery is due to free market supply and demand, but what if the demand/bubble is being blown by the same "Big Money" that determines the price of most other speculative bubbles? In other words, what prevents the Big Money Boys, who create FRN's out of thin air, from investing in Bitcoin themselves, buying up enough virtual coin to be able to control the supply/demand equation, thus creating a near perfect Pump and Dump operation? It's completely anonymous after all. But is it really unregulated? Ok, it's not being regulated by "official" government bureaucracy, but there's nothing to prevent it's price from being regulated by the Money Masters who "own" government to begin with.

What I see happening is that this speculative money for nothing, chicks for free thing going on with Bitcoin, is that it is in fact, destroying its actual viability as an alternative
currency. A currency intended to allow real transactions between real people, real goods and real services. In real time.

All this effusive Get Rich Quick on Bitcoin bullshit is turning an interesting novel concept into a Las Vegas Casino Operation. It's turning honest folks into a gaggle of little sweaty palmed, beady eyed gambling junkies. I hate this bullshit.

An alternative currency must have as a basic attribute, a stable standard value upon which to stand. Otherwise, it's just more of the same bullshit that's destroying the world, turning everyone's heads into mush.

The idea of investing in money to make money was born out of Satan's black crusty asshole. :mad:



I hear you.

I had expected Bitcoin's rise to be more gradual, but that is apparently not the case.

Bitcoin does have value as a currency system/protocol, regardless of $$$ value.

I would rather see Bitcoin succeed on its own merits and over a longer period of time, than driven to the stratosphere by big-money speculators.

In any case, I hope that my dabbling with bitcoin has not put me on your naughty list.

[madfranks]

I agree with you Santa, bitcoin is not exactly a stable store of value at the moment. In my estimation, rough birthing pains of a whole new type of currency is to be expected, but where it goes from here I can only guess. I see two possible scenarios, one that bitcoin gains worldwide exposure and becomes as well known as the dollar, yuan, ruble, etc., and all the world markets get in and get comfortable. At this point it should stabilize. Two, these wild swings eventually undermine the whole concept of a alternative currency and worldwide interest dies after people realize it doesn't perform as a stable means of exchange.

[Horn]

The idea of investing in money to make money was born out of Satan's black crusty asshole. :mad:



Finally, someone who respects high moral fiber,

to promoting his own Bit pieces as Gold 2.0, when they're not.

bIt spits in the face of Gold and Silver, degrading them.

[madfranks]

The idea of investing in money to make money was born out of Satan's black crusty asshole. :mad:


Finally, someone who respects high moral fiber,

to promoting his own Bit pieces as Gold 2.0, when they're not.

bIt spits in the face of Gold and Silver, degrading them.

Have neither of you read Jesus' parable of the talents?


14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



Seems contradictory, doesn't it? However, the Bible makes clear that usury against your own bother, against widows and children is a sin, but investing capital to gain a return, or trading for profit, is not a sin. I highly recommend you read Gary North's book, Honest Money, which offers a Biblical blueprint for money and banking, and goes into deeper study of this exact theme. It's free, you can download the book here: http://www.garynorth.com/HonestMoney.pdf

[Horn]

Honest money has value unto itself, franks.

Bitcoin is trading into the void.

The lord would be pissed if the dough was traded for nothing.

"Yes here lord, I've brought you nothing, but hold onto it, it will become a larger (when compared to) nothing"

Nothing = Notional, notice the knot in the root NOT.

[Santa]

Have neither of you read Jesus' parable of the talents?

Seems contradictory, doesn't it? However, the Bible makes clear that usury against your own bother, against widows and children is a sin, but investing capital to gain a return, or trading for profit, is not a sin. I highly recommend you read Gary North's book, Honest Money, which offers a Biblical blueprint for money and banking, and goes into deeper study of this exact theme. It's free, you can download the book here: http://www.garynorth.com/HonestMoney.pdf

I think you're perhaps unintentionally mis-interpreting this parable. In fact, I think the parable itself may have been intentionally written, or re-written to be misleading by the use of the ambiguous word "Talent." I don't think it was "money" per se that Jesus was actually referring to. It was referring to a measure of one's worth. Which, of course "money" is supposed to be about, but obviously isn't.

That's the problem. Money is NOT a measure of one's worth.

What it's saying is that hiding away one's worth, one's talent in the world out of fear of losing it is wrong thinking, stingy and therefore sinful.
Whereas sharing one's worth, or "talents" in society allows for a world of abundance and thus the reaping of those rewards as such and receives God's Grace.

If you read this parable as a literal interpretation, it leads to the inevitable conclusion that those who own the most money are those who most deserve it. Which is obvious bullshit.

[madfranks]

Interesting theory, although I'm not sure I agree. I suppose some more thought on the matter is warranted...

[Horn]

Convincing others to trade away real money for notional nothing money, could be considered a talent.

[sirgonzo420]

I think you're perhaps unintentionally mis-interpreting this parable. In fact, I think the parable itself may have been intentionally written, or re-written to be misleading by the use of the ambiguous word "Talent." I don't think it was "money" per se that Jesus was actually referring to. It was referring to a measure of one's worth. Which, of course "money" is supposed to be about, but obviously isn't.

That's the problem. Money is NOT a measure of one's worth.

What it's saying is that hiding away one's worth, one's talent in the world out of fear of losing it is wrong thinking, stingy and therefore sinful.
Whereas sharing one's worth, or "talents" in society allows for a world of abundance and thus the reaping of those rewards as such and receives God's Grace.

If you read this parable as a literal interpretation, it leads to the inevitable conclusion that those who own the most money are those who most deserve it. Which is obvious bullshit.


The primary fault with money, from a spiritual standpoint, is that it can foster attachment to materiality, and bring with it all the woes that said attachment implies. This is why it is easier for a camel to get through the head of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The rich man, knowing and being attached to material things, misses the Truth of which he is living in the middle.

If you feel like you deserve more money, perhaps you should put in for a raise. The Universe is still unfolding as it should, and it will continue to do so, as has been mandated.

And when the Bible says "talents", it refers to measurement/currency units, although there is always more to it.... One point to gain is that God gives us what we need to do our Task, and this applies to "talents" of the monetary variety as well as one's skills. He is not holding out. If we don't have a lot, it is because we don't need a lot.

Jesus says to love God with all your heart, mind, soul and might, and secondly to love our neighbors as ourselves. He is alluding to the Ultimate Truth here, getting pretty much the closest one can get with words. There is only one thing going on right now, and there only ever will be...

[Ares]

I think Bitcoin is an intentional speculative bubble. The basic assumption is that it's price discovery is due to free market supply and demand, but what if the demand/bubble is being blown by the same "Big Money" that determines the price of most other speculative bubbles? In other words, what prevents the Big Money Boys, who create FRN's out of thin air, from investing in Bitcoin themselves, buying up enough virtual coin to be able to control the supply/demand equation, thus creating a near perfect Pump and Dump operation? It's completely anonymous after all. But is it really unregulated? Ok, it's not being regulated by "official" government bureaucracy, but there's nothing to prevent it's price from being regulated by the Money Masters who "own" government to begin with.

What I see happening is that this speculative money for nothing, chicks for free thing going on with Bitcoin, is that it is in fact, destroying its actual viability as an alternative
currency. A currency intended to allow real transactions between real people, real goods and real services. In real time.

All this effusive Get Rich Quick on Bitcoin bullshit is turning an interesting novel concept into a Las Vegas Casino Operation. It's turning honest folks into a gaggle of little sweaty palmed, beady eyed gambling junkies. I hate this bullshit.

An alternative currency must have as a basic attribute, a stable standard value upon which to stand. Otherwise, it's just more of the same bullshit that's destroying the world, turning everyone's heads into mush.

The idea of investing in money to make money was born out of Satan's black crusty asshole. :mad:

Another thing to keep in mind, it really is a small number of Bitcoins that is changing hands due to speculation each day. In the last 24Hrs 1.8 Million BTC's changed hands. Now on its face that may seem like a lot. But currently there are a little over 12 million BTC's in circulation. So the number of BTC's changing hands in the last 24 hours was 15% of the current total 12 million BTC's. I see trading / speculation more about value / price discovery than anything. It also breeds demand, every currency will have its speculators. Always has been, always will be hell even gold and silver have their speculators. But of that 15% of all BTC's changing hands what number is it that happened at the exchanges? I would guess of that 15% it probably be between 2-5%, the rest goods, services, satoshi dice gambling etc. that people spend their BTC's on.

[Horn]

That new Bitcoin hack tool might account for a small point percentage also.

[Santa]

If we don't have a lot, it is because we don't need a lot.

There is only one thing going on right now, and there only ever will be...

Good points.


Diogenes was asked why he always begged. "To teach people," replied Diogenes. "Oh yeah, and what do you teach?" people would ask him scornfully. "Generosity", he replied.

:)

Diogenes was once asked, "What is the difference between life and death?

"No difference."

"Well then, why do you remain in this life?"

"Because there is no difference."

[Cebu_4_2]

Question: I used to mine and quit.

Say I mined a bunch of bitcoins, hundreds or thousands and then quit, erased everything and walked away. Those bitcoins will just disappear out of the system according to what I have read here. They were mine and I threw them away, now they are gone and unaccounted for like burning fiat. Right?

[Hypertiger]

Taking more power than you give = Usurious

Same as chopping down trees faster then they regrow to sustain existence

Sharing power equally = Fairness.

Same as chopping down trees as fast as or slower than they regrow to sustain existence

"When plunder (absolute capitalism/taking more than you give/plunder/usury) becomes a way of life for a group of men (People) (That are absolute capitalists) living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal (Rule) system that authorizes it and a moral code (Religion) that glorifies it."--Frederic Bastiat...The LAW.

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody (All who choose to employ absolute self indulgent reason) gets busy on the proof."--John Kenneth Galbraith

"People of privilege (Absolute capitalists) will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage. (Power)"--John Kenneth Galbraith

"The modern conservative (Violent or negative Absolute capitalist) is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Liberals (Gradual or positive absolute capitalists) transform into (Violent or negative absolute capitalists) conservatives when they begin losing power.

[Ares]

Question: I used to mine and quit.

Say I mined a bunch of bitcoins, hundreds or thousands and then quit, erased everything and walked away. Those bitcoins will just disappear out of the system according to what I have read here. They were mine and I threw them away, now they are gone and unaccounted for like burning fiat. Right?

Correct, they are gone. Like gold in a boating accident. You can't get it back unfortunately. I've lost a couple LTC's that way. Had a hard drive crash and the backup I was going to use to restore the wallet was corrupted due to a degraded RAID 5 I was unable to successfully recover from..... I learned an important lesson.. Keep more than one backup and keep a paper backup.

They don't disappear out of the system, they are just no longer able to be used. It would be the same if I had a wallet full of BTC's encrypted it and god forbid, I die. But never gave my wife the password to the wallet, she would be unable to use them. They are there, just not able to be utilized.

[Hypertiger]

price discovery?

Gambling.

It is both funny and sad how ignorant you all are.

There is no way people that actually work for a living are going to be able to continue to support you all, that imagine you work for a living, forever.

You all are Jews Jewing each other for fun and profit.

[Horn]

There is only one thing going on right now, and there only ever will be...

Righteousness being trampled under foot, by the forces of dark nothingness.

Merci


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQH3LtNePgI

[Uncle Salty]

You all are Jews Jewing each other for fun and profit.

Classic. Best laugh of the day.

[Hypertiger]

Yes the yield starvation is causing you all to cannibalize yourselves.

The more you malinvest into usury...The lower the yields are powered down...

[Cebu_4_2]

Correct, they are gone. Like gold in a boating accident. You can't get it back unfortunately. I've lost a couple LTC's that way. Had a hard drive crash and the backup I was going to use to restore the wallet was corrupted due to a degraded RAID 5 I was unable to successfully recover from..... I learned an important lesson.. Keep more than one backup and keep a paper backup.

They don't disappear out of the system, they are just no longer able to be used. It would be the same if I had a wallet full of BTC's encrypted it and god forbid, I die. But never gave my wife the password to the wallet, she would be unable to use them. They are there, just not able to be utilized.

Thanks, I dont know very much about BTC which was another reason I quit. So in theory, couldn't the global banksters print a few trillion fiat and buy the remaining BTC and then do the same thing rendering BTC to the only ones that are currently in circulation? Not sure what that would do besides drive the price up.

[vacuum]

Thanks, I dont know very much about BTC which was another reason I quit. So in theory, couldn't the global banksters print a few trillion fiat and buy the remaining BTC and then do the same thing rendering BTC to the only ones that are currently in circulation? Not sure what that would do besides drive the price up.

1) To be able to buy btc, someone has to sell btc. If you hold btc, maybe you dont want to sell. Maybe you'd only sell when the price reaches $100,000 per btc.

2) If they bought up all the btc somehow and no one had any btc, then maybe people would just create btc_v2 and start trading that around so there would be a functional currency available to people.

But I guess it's possible. We just don't know what psychology does when anyone can create any new cryptocurrency. Why will people stay locked in to just one? Can it be cornered and manipulated without people leaving? who knows.

[Horn]

If it doesn't crash to completely miserable levels, you'll know its being easily manipulated from above.

You're left waiting to climb the master's puppet strings.

If it does crash to totally miserable levels, you'll know it will be easily replaced from above's version.

You're left waiting for him to reincarnate you a new puppet.

Either way you're left, and not right like me.

That's how you do it, HT you leftist :)

[mick silver]

U.S. Government Preparing for Collapse (and Not in a Nice Way)