Kit O' Beer

[Glass]

I like beer. Still on beer sabatical.... .. but now there's a brewing forum here.

I used to go to a local micro brew factory where you could brew your own beer using their gear. They then the store beer for you during the fermenting stage. When that is done, usually 2 weeks later you go back with your bottles. They hook your beer up to one of their bottling stations. It's got a tap and capping gear and away you go.

They also had a canning machine where you could can 500ml cans. They were good.

We used to get 6 x 24 stubbies (330/375ml) out of a brew. Initially it was pretty cheap per carton. It was also a bit of fun when bottling with a couple mates. Better to do it with mates so you can split up the beer into amounts you can store in the fridge as it needs to be kept refridgerated. When I did them on my own the fridges at home/work/the olds were all full. Work downsized the fridge on me one weekend without warning.

I've been watching CraigTube this morning. He does a 3 parter on a starter brew kit from Coopers. Looks like a pretty useful kit for beginers. I think it can be picked up down here for about $95 + P&H. I've read around you can sometimes grab them for $65 from the Kmart/bigW.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt3IGCxu6tk

He also has a couple videos on kegging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbjGjXVXqpw

It actually looks pretty straight forward. Always wanted to do kegs but needs too much space and no way to keep cool. I see you can now not only get 19L kegs (ex post mix kegs - pepsi etc) but and I see smaller 9L post mix kegs. I could see a couple of those fit in the fridge nicely. They would also be good for putting in the esky and taking to a party/bbq.

I might give one of these coopers kits a go and see what happens.

[Libertytree]

Get yourself one dude, give it a go and if you like it you can always expand or just keep making smaller batches. Start with bottling and then if you want/can move into kegs. Anything you fancy starting with?

[Glass]

I'm thinking about it. It comes with an aussie lager pack to get started so that seems as good a place as any to start. They say the kit comes with a dark yeast, which I think is normal for coopers but could be swapped out for a lighter one for a truer lager result.

Personally I'm partial to a pilsner. They sound like a bit of a challenge so I think lager to start and go from there. I'm not drinking at the moment so need to find someone to take the results, for better or for worts. Should not be too hard being as it's Australia and I'm standing in it.

[Libertytree]

I'm thinking about it. It comes with an aussie lager pack to get started so that seems as good a place as any to start. They say the kit comes with a dark yeast, which I think is normal for coopers but could be swapped out for a lighter one for a truer lager result.

Personally I'm partial to a pilsner. They sound like a bit of a challenge so I think lager to start and go from there. I'm not drinking at the moment so need to find someone to take the results, for better or for worts. Should not be too hard being as it's Australia and I'm standing in it.

I generally use a Pilsner liquid malt extract and they are the opposite of a challenge, rather one of the easiest along side of ales. As I've understood it lagering is a method that produces lager's, ie.. cold fermented beer.

As to the yeast, I look at my yeast as to how it reacts to temperatures, the Coopers and the Mauribrew ale yeasts are very good at high temp fermentations and one or the other will become a staple in my ingredient list. Had I known that my local brew shop was going to mislead me on my last go round Coopers is what I would have used, not what they sold me as a replacement. I used the Coopers Brewers yeast once and it did a terrific job on a 5 gal batch and I regret not having used it since. The Mauribrew is newer but I've read good things about it and it is supposedly even slightly better at higher temps. (?).

[BrewTech]

To clarify:

There are two basic types of beer: ales and lagers.

Ales are made with malts that generally have been germinated longer and are kilned at higher temperature giving them more color and flavor. They are boiled with an early hop addition to extract the bitterness (and later sometimes dry-hopped). They are then pitched with a yeast that traditionally would rise to the top of the fermenter, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, and fermented at warmer temperatures (59-77F).

Lagers are made with malts that are less well-modified (germinated for shorter periods) and are kilned at lower temperatures, giving them a gentler flavor. They are boiled with some of the hops added late in the kettle boil (late-hopping). They are pitched with a yeast that would sink to the bottom of the fermenter, Saccharomyces Pastorianus, and fermented at cooler temperatures (45-58F). Traditionally these beers would also be stored at cool temperatures for extended periods of time (lagering) to settle out unwanted materials and to allow carbonation to progressively build up.

Color and alcohol content are mostly irrelevant when classifying ales and lagers. Generally, yeast strain combined with fermentation temp determines what type of beer you will get.

Because of the yeast LT is using, he is making ales every time. Some of the best ales are made with Pilsner malt.

Pilsner is a style of lager, originally made with lager yeast stolen from the Germans by the Czechs...

[Glass]

good to know the preferred drop is an easy one to brew. I made the comment about the yeast due to seeing a review by someone using the kit of beer and showing the results. Nothing wrong with the results for sure. The brew was the aussie larger in the kit but that brewer made the point that the beer was darker than a normal larger and they put that down to it being a darker yeast that Coopers use.

I will use whats in the box first time round and go from there.

I'm also interested in mini kegs. They look like a bit of fun. A 1 gal in a small keg you can drop into an esky. 4 - 5 kegs to a brew. Now we are talking more dollars so later maybe for that.

I did buy a box of Coopers brewing bottles a couple years ago. Same as in the kit but not the fermenter etc. I used them for making ginger beer. I posted the recipe i used here somewhere. Easy enough to do. I've had hits and misses. All down to the yeast. When it works it's excellent. I found that it did gas a lot. So much that you really had to easy off the cap very slowly otherwise you had a fountain. Everything gets chucked in the bottle so it is full of sediment etc when you are ready to drink it.

[BrewTech]

good to know the preferred drop is an easy one to brew. I made the comment about the yeast due to seeing a review by someone using the kit of beer and showing the results. Nothing wrong with the results for sure. The brew was the aussie larger in the kit but that brewer made the point that the beer was darker than a normal larger and they put that down to it being a darker yeast that Coopers use.



Variety of yeast has exactly ZERO effect on beer color. It can, however, have a significant influence on flavor, more so if you have a gently-flavored beer

Malt variety and the effects of Maillard reaction during the brewing process (sugars and amino acids reacting during heating to give color and flavor) are what determines the color in beer. Using liquid malt extracts will result in a darker beer than the equivalent recipe brewed using an all-grain process. This is due to the heat required to concentrate the wort into a thick syrup during manufacturing. Also, oxidiation of the extract over time will modify the color and flavor. If you are trying to make a very lightly colored lager from extract, go with a dry malt extract, pilsner or two-row.

[Libertytree]

To clarify:

There are two basic types of beer: ales and lagers.

Ales are made with malts that generally have been germinated longer and are kilned at higher temperature giving them more color and flavor. They are boiled with an early hop addition to extract the bitterness (and later sometimes dry-hopped). They are then pitched with a yeast that traditionally would rise to the top of the fermenter, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, and fermented at warmer temperatures (59-77F).

Lagers are made with malts that are less well-modified (germinated for shorter periods) and are kilned at lower temperatures, giving them a gentler flavor. They are boiled with some of the hops added late in the kettle boil (late-hopping). They are pitched with a yeast that would sink to the bottom of the fermenter, Saccharomyces Pastorianus, and fermented at cooler temperatures (45-58F). Traditionally these beers would also be stored at cool temperatures for extended periods of time (lagering) to settle out unwanted materials and to allow carbonation to progressively build up.

Color and alcohol content are mostly irrelevant when classifying ales and lagers. Generally, yeast strain combined with fermentation temp determines what type of beer you will get.

Because of the yeast LT is using, he is making ales every time. Some of the best ales are made with Pilsner malt.

Pilsner is a style of lager, originally made with lager yeast stolen from the Germans by the Czechs...

I never knew how to define what my beer was/is, now I do! Or should there be another classification if you're fermenting at 78-90F?

[BrewTech]

I never knew how to define what my beer was/is, now I do! Or should there be another classification if you're fermenting at 78-90F?

Seriously, bro... you gotta get that fermentation temp down. Ever try putting the can in a larger vessel that contains cool water? Re-useable ice blocks (gatorade bottles filled with water then frozen) are what I always used. Just keep a supply in the freezer and rotate them as necessary.

If you're going to ferment at those temps, you should be making something like a Saison or Belgian (http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php), where the materials produced by the yeast at those temps are appropriate for style...

[Libertytree]

I wish I could remedy it pronto but circumstances and logistics ain't working in my favor right now. I have a plan for a fermentation cooler that will reduce the temps down into the 70's and I'll pull that off after another few batches, until then if I can continue to make what I've been making I'm content. I'll always try and improve the process and the results but sometimes it just is what it is. Thankfully the weather is cooling off here and that'll help matters.

I have to admit that I'm tickled with what I've made thus far, a few people told me not to even try it in this environment but as far as I'm concerned my results say that they were full of shit. Sure, it can be improved upon and I have that in my sights, between improving the recipe, the process and my ferment temp problem. The great thing is, the only person I need to impress is me :) The other great thing is, is that if the electric went out and I could still boil my wort and then ferment it as is, I would still have good beer.

I looked at the Saison yesterday at the BJCP (thanks for link) and loved the term "farmhouse beer", kind of apropos in my case though obviously not a Saison. I will be trying a mini batch of that!

[Glass]

I picked up one of these Coopers DIY beer kits last weekend. Having a look around, one of the big liquor outlets had them for $80. Doing the numbers on all the bits bought separately and its clear the kit is a cheaper option.

It was warmer this week with a spike up to 30C. Summer is coming and it's ironic that larger, a good summer drop is best brewed in colder temps. In olden days past it probably worked out ok. Ideal temp for larger ferment is 16C. Not going to get that here without controlled environment.

It was cool yesterday so I brewed. Fairly straight forward I think. You sanitise like an obsessive, boil 3 ltrs water. Stand can of liquid malts upside in another pan of hot water. Pour box of Enhancer #1 in fermenter, pour in 2L boiled water, stir well, pour in malt liquids, last 1lt boiled water to rinse can and pour in, fill to nearly 23L, with cold water. Check temp and top with chilled or cold water as you need to target 21C.

I forgot about the temp and it was above 30 when I remembered. There is a litre or so extra chilled in there to bring it down to about 22 but it took a while. Sitting in a trough of water, iced bottles around, wet towel and fan. Down to 16C over night. Not going to be able to hold that in the day. Cooler today and I might get a few crucial days of low-mid 20C. So it's possible I could keep low 20 for a few days.

we will see. Now we just keep cool and wait.

I watched a lot of this guys videos for anyone who is interested.
I did pretty much this but only used what came in the kit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIuRjYnEZxc

He has 4 parters taking you through the whole process to bottling using the kit.

[Libertytree]

Which type of beer did you decide to make? What hops came with it? Yeast? Timeline?

[Glass]

The kit came with an aussie larger in a can so I decided on that one. time line? who knows. 7 days till looking to rack I suppose. We are still sitting around the 16 - 18C mark. The ambient is 24C. I wont be able to tend it on a working day so the temp will climb during the day.

End of week will be mid 30's so need to bottle by then. I can use some coolers to control temps a bit better when its bottled.

I notice what I think is some undissolved dextrose or what ever it was, enhancer above the tap and below it around some angled parts of the fermenter. Figured I wouldn't disturb things. I think something is going on in there.

I didn't take a OG because can't access tap with it in the trough. figured a small hose to syphon a bit off. Safe to do that? sanitized of course.

went to the brew shop to check out what they had. mix of stuff and a decent range but not a lot of choice. picked up a glass tempometre, a tap for a pail type fermenter and some white bottle caps so I can label.

[Libertytree]

The kit came with an aussie larger in a can so I decided on that one. time line? who knows. 7 days till looking to rack I suppose. We are still sitting around the 16 - 18C mark. The ambient is 24C. I wont be able to tend it on a working day so the temp will climb during the day.

End of week will be mid 30's so need to bottle by then. I can use some coolers to control temps a bit better when its bottled.

I notice what I think is some undissolved dextrose or what ever it was, enhancer above the tap and below it around some angled parts of the fermenter. Figured I wouldn't disturb things. I think something is going on in there.

I didn't take a OG because can't access tap with it in the trough. figured a small hose to syphon a bit off. Safe to do that? sanitized of course.

went to the brew shop to check out what they had. mix of stuff and a decent range but not a lot of choice. picked up a glass tempometre, a tap for a pail type fermenter and some white bottle caps so I can label.

Don't quote me on this and I'm sure BT has a definitive answer but I don't think you have to worry as much about the temp after its been bottled.

Yeah, it's safe to siphon some off, just sanitize whatever you use and it'll be fine.

[mick silver]

dam guys you all are making me want to make my own beer ,are there any good links to learn some of the basic stuff one would need to know .if so pm me thanks mick ... would a old copper moonshine sill work for beer

[Glass]

I linked to a video on YT of how I did it. See a couple posts below.

If you want to watch more longer videos here is CraigTubes brew video list (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2A9257341E3DF381) for easy home brewing. There are lots of other good brew videos, full mash, extracts, this n thats. Seems you don't need to invest a lot to get going. Check out the Poor mans garbage can beer (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?73973-Poor-mans-garbage-can-beer-2)

I managed to keep the fermenter at about 18C for the weekend. The brewing weather gods were smiling. Still smiling today as we have 23-24C today. The fermenter does not have an air lock on it. It is a newer version of the Tooheys kit and it is supposed to burp excess gas. I have the beer wrapped in a damp towel and realized that the weight of the towel might stop the gas getting out as freely. Uncovered the fermenter for 30 minutes late at night and again early in the morning. Both times a nice beer aroma filled the room.

There are some things going on in the fermenter but its pretty laid back in there. Aussie lager so I suppose thats ok. It has maybe 1cm of foam floating on top and in one area there is a fairly large mound of foam where most of the action seems to be happening.

This kit apparently has ale yeast in it even though it's a lager, so newbies could brew at higher temps. I am trying to do it closer to lager temps so I'm figuring the ferment could be a bit longer than the 7 days or so expected.

[mick silver]

would a old copper moonshine sill work for beer ?

[Libertytree]

would a old copper moonshine sill work for beer ?

I don't know why not. All you're doing is boiling water, syrup, sugar and hops.

[Libertytree]

I linked to a video on YT of how I did it. See a couple posts below.

If you want to watch more longer videos here is CraigTubes brew video list (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2A9257341E3DF381) for easy home brewing. There are lots of other good brew videos, full mash, extracts, this n thats. Seems you don't need to invest a lot to get going. Check out the Poor mans garbage can beer (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?73973-Poor-mans-garbage-can-beer-2)

I managed to keep the fermenter at about 18C for the weekend. The brewing weather gods were smiling. Still smiling today as we have 23-24C today. The fermenter does not have an air lock on it. It is a newer version of the Tooheys kit and it is supposed to burp excess gas. I have the beer wrapped in a damp towel and realized that the weight of the towel might stop the gas getting out as freely. Uncovered the fermenter for 30 minutes late at night and again early in the morning. Both times a nice beer aroma filled the room.

There are some things going on in the fermenter but its pretty laid back in there. Aussie lager so I suppose thats ok. It has maybe 1cm of foam floating on top and in one area there is a fairly large mound of foam where most of the action seems to be happening.

This kit apparently has ale yeast in it even though it's a lager, so newbies could brew at higher temps. I am trying to do it closer to lager temps so I'm figuring the ferment could be a bit longer than the 7 days or so expected.

Sounds like it's coming along nicely! Don't ya love that smell!

Also, to the best of my understanding using "lager" ingredients does not get you a lager beer. A beer can only be a lager if it is cold fermented for X amount of time. I found this to help me explain but BT has a better explanation, I'd bet on it!


"Beers fall into two broad categories: Those that are produced by top-fermenting yeasts (ales) and those that are made with bottom-fermenting yeasts (lagers). There are hybrids, but that's another discussion.


Ales came first, when brewers weren't exactly sure what role yeast played. Because ales were unstable, brewing ceased in warm weather and brewers would store reserves in as cool or cold an environment as they could find. Brewers storing their beer in very cold Alpine caves found that their beer was more stable because the yeast had sunk to the bottom.


We won't go into the evolution of this yeast, but this storage (lagerung in German) naturally selected bottom-fermenting yeasts. Operating at colder temperatures these yeasts worked slower, producing beer more attenuated, cleaner, rounder and less fruity than ales. Fermentation took one to three months.


Ales include everything with ale in the name (pale ale, amber ale, etc.), porters, stouts, Belgian specialty beers, wheat beers and many German specialty beers. They generally have a more robust taste, are more complex and are best consumed cool (50F or a bit warmer) rather than cold.


Lagers include pilseners, bocks and dopplebocks, Maerzens/Oktoberfests, Dortmunders and a few other styles found mostly in Germany. They are best consumed at a cooler temperature than lagers, although anything served at less than 38F will lose most of its flavor. "

[BrewTech]

I'd say that explanation is spot on... exactly the way I would have tried to explain it.

[Glass]

I don't know why not. All you're doing is boiling water, syrup, sugar and hops.

A quick scour of the interweb and apparently copper is a pretty good material for beer brewing, either as a cook pot or fermenter. Some people on forums seem to have some issues when they used copper but I don't know if thats strictly brewing or something else.

Thanks for the explain. Pretty sure the yeast is an ale yeast. I tossed it on top and gave it a quick stir after about 10 mins of sitting there. Things are still working although its slow going and only day 3. Temps cool again today but climbing to 30 the next couple of days before cooling off a few degrees again. So basically the brew will get warmer the next few days and we might see some more action.

[Libertytree]

A quick scour of the interweb and apparently copper is a pretty good material for beer brewing, either as a cook pot or fermenter. Some people on forums seem to have some issues when they used copper but I don't know if thats strictly brewing or something else.

Thanks for the explain. Pretty sure the yeast is an ale yeast. I tossed it on top and gave it a quick stir after about 10 mins of sitting there. Things are still working although its slow going and only day 3. Temps cool again today but climbing to 30 the next couple of days before cooling off a few degrees again. So basically the brew will get warmer the next few days and we might see some more action.

I'd have no problem using copper for my boil, if it was large enough. I don't think I'd want to ferment in it though, not when 6 gal buckets, carboys and trashcans are so cheap and are easier to sanitize.

Your ferment is still fermenting even if it doesn't look like it, you definetely don't want to stop it early. I made that mistake and is why BT encouraged me to get a hydrometer.

From here on out I'll not use any other yeast except for Aussie Ale yeast, Coopers or Maribrew. I used it for my initial small test (5 gal) batch and it rocked! The Safale yeast has been underwhelming for my environment.

[gunDriller]

To clarify:

There are two basic types of beer: ales and lagers.

which category would a Barleywine fall into ? (9%+ alcohol content)

[Libertytree]

which category would a Barleywine fall into ? (9%+ alcohol content)

It's in a class of beers called "Strong Ales", there's English and American Barleywines with each having their own subtle differences.

[Libertytree]

Glass, gotta question...In your Coopers kit what did they provide for priming sugar? Carbonation drops or granular?

[Glass]

LT, I have carbonation drops in the kit. 2 per 750ml/~25oz bottle.

I took a gravity reading this morning. 2.3.
Observations: very cloudy, colour is now light golden from the original darker reddish ale when we got started. looks like beer. smell is very mild I have to say but tastes like a light ale at this point.

I think there is a fair way to go at this point but I think it is going in the right direction. I was messing around yesterday and taking a closer look I was troubled when it looked like mould on the top of the foam. I think it's large burst bubbles showing through the beer underneath so it looks like dark splotches.

30C today so a bit of a warm one. Early up to catch the cool desert breeze and cool the house. I papered over the windows in that room. Should keep heat down a bit today. I might get a chance to swing by during the day and make sure everything is cool.

[Libertytree]

LT, I have carbonation drops in the kit. 2 per 750ml/~25oz bottle.

I took a gravity reading this morning. 2.3.
Observations: very cloudy, colour is now light golden from the original darker reddish ale when we got started. looks like beer. smell is very mild I have to say but tastes like a light ale at this point.

I think there is a fair way to go at this point but I think it is going in the right direction. I was messing around yesterday and taking a closer look I was troubled when it looked like mould on the top of the foam. I think it's large burst bubbles showing through the beer underneath so it looks like dark splotches.

30C today so a bit of a warm one. Early up to catch the cool desert breeze and cool the house. I papered over the windows in that room. Should keep heat down a bit today. I might get a chance to swing by during the day and make sure everything is cool.

2.3 sounds high but since you never took an original gravity (OG) reading it's hard to tell. Take one every 3rd day, BT can prolly tell ya better but the less it's disturbed the better, less chance for outside contamination.

I saw that same mould looking stuff too but it wasn't a threat.

I put cardboard over the windows in my ferment room, works really good.

The reason I asked about the carbonation drops is that my last batch is a very slow carbonating batch, or so it seems. If by next Tues it still hasn't carbonated I'll take the drastic measure and get some of those carb drops and try and rescue the batch. I've read where others did it successfully with similar circumstances and give it a go, see what happens.

[Glass]

They are just a crystalised dextrose I think but is a clean way to prime the bottles.

Maybe I need to let the beer settle in the meter for a while before testing it. I also thought it was very high. long way from the "ideal range" markings on the meter.

its possible I didn't mix things together aggressively enough to begin with. We will find out soon.

[Libertytree]

They are just a crystalised dextrose I think but is a clean way to prime the bottles.

Maybe I need to let the beer settle in the meter for a while before testing it. I also thought it was very high. long way from the "ideal range" markings on the meter.

its possible I didn't mix things together aggressively enough to begin with. We will find out soon.

By "Meter" do you mean a test jar? It's very important that you note the temp of your test amount, there's a correction per degree that alters the true reading. Also, did you calibrate your hydrometer to make sure it's ok?

[Glass]

By "Meter" do you mean a test jar? It's very important that you note the temp of your test amount, there's a correction per degree that alters the true reading. Also, did you calibrate your hydrometer to make sure it's ok?

ok. well I'm figuring to be running it cold. Around 18 - 19C. I did not do anything to prep the hydrometer other than sanitize it and let dry. I don't know anything about them so I am confident I took a crap reading. No biggie.

The craig tube guy has a hydrometer 101 video. I'll learn up today and have another go when I get home later.

[Libertytree]

I'm still curious as to what a meter is?

I'm a noob with a hydrometer too. Did you float it in 60 degree water? You're supposed to get a certain reading (1.000?) with water. Also, if your test jar has warm beer in it it effects the reading and has to be compensated for.

[Glass]

yes meter is the hydrometer and the tube it lives in.

CraigTube's Hydrometer school (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTvmYaQq6Mc&list=TL5J-41XiVd_1qHke7c8V5IpT-jB0M2-O0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTvmYaQq6Mc&list=TL5J-41XiVd_1qHke7c8V5IpT-jB0M2-O0

Based on the demo he does I'm figuring undissolved/consumed sugars which make sense. Thats what the meter is detecting as it floats or shows bouyancy. Also am only into day 5 now so still early to be taking readings. Unlikely to get a chance to swing by home and check on the baby today but never mind.

Won't be able to forecast alcohol level because I didn't take an original reading but I think these kits are pretty tight for about 4 - 4.5%.

[Glass]

Hydrometer tested A-Ok with water as a base.

Ambient hit 27C yesterday but the fermenter maintained 18C. Surprised by that but happy none the less.

32C today and am trying to get the temps a few degrees higher so slightly less iced bottles in the trough today.

Will do a hydro test Friday night.

[Glass]

I think I'm running a brew diary here. Observations for today and past couple days.
Today is exactly 1 week since starting the brew. Been maintaining 18C/64F for 6 days. Today started at 18 finished at 22C/71F @6PM. Will try and maintain 22 until bottling for a bit more action into the home straight.

Drew a sample tonight for testing. Colour has paled substantially. Lets call it straw coloured. Much clearer than last sample which I think was day 4 Tuesday. Still slight cloudiness but I think we are close. 2 or 3 days maybe if we get that extra action.

Smell is like beer, a flat lager. For taste it promises to be sweet but I think that will pass.

Hydrometer Readings
Original reading was not done.
1st reading was 1.023 (@18C Day 4).
2nd reading was 1.020 (@22C Day 7).

I will remove the collar from the fermenter over the next couple days depending on activity in the fermenter. Not sure it accumulated much schtuff. It formed an island in the middle instead of the sides.

We seem to be going in right direction. If we are looking toward a reading closer to 1.000 so even below 1.010, it still seems a long way from here in 2 - 3 days. Might be optimistic but the yeast is in charge of things so they are the guide.

[Libertytree]

I think we're both running beer diaries here and I like it, its fun and informative.

From what I've read a 1.010 reading is about right but I don't know if that's universal or if each type of beer has its own target #?

[Glass]

I'll take a daily reading now. Looking for same reading on 2 days to show ferment is done. They say about 6 days at 21C so in the ballpark now.

[Libertytree]

Sounds like you have it down pat Glass! Now as far as finding out what your Alc% is just assume this time that your OG was 1.040 and do the calculation. I have to think that the kit makers have it pretty much designed to get you to that basic OG. Just remember to test it before you add the carb drops at bottling time.

[Glass]

Another reading earlier today. No change from the previous day. Temps ranged from 20 - 23 today. Ambient was 30C. High humidity.

Hydrometer Readings so far
Original reading was not done.
1st reading was 1.023 (@18C Day 4).
2nd reading was 1.020 (@22C Day 7).
3rd reading was 1.020 (@21.5 Day 8).

I'd say that it's done to look at it, but the reading is saying a little but longer? Unsure. Wait a bit longer but prepared to bottle any time now.

[Libertytree]

I think you're right, if you were to get the same reading tomorrow I'd bottle it.

[Glass]

been reading around and apparently 1.020 is a curse (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/1-020-curse-63896/) for newb brewers. Fermentation can get stuck here. Lots of possible causes. Not enough mixing, enough aeration, bad yeast, too hot when pitching yeast, too cold for yeast.

Sometimes warming up can kick things along. Often it's only a couple points gain other times nothing. Some bottle 7 days others hang up to 14. Will be low alcohol if bottled here. Maybe a mid strength. Might not be such a bad thing.

[Glass]

Todays reading to me looks like its 1.019. Slightly higher temp at 23C today. Ambient 28C.

So as the saying goes "Time Extension!". Will hold another 24 hours and check again.

[BrewTech]

been reading around and apparently 1.020 is a curse (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/1-020-curse-63896/) for newb brewers. Fermentation can get stuck here. Lots of possible causes. Not enough mixing, enough aeration, bad yeast, too hot when pitching yeast, too cold for yeast.

Sometimes warming up can kick things along. Often it's only a couple points gain other times nothing. Some bottle 7 days others hang up to 14. Will be low alcohol if bottled here. Maybe a mid strength. Might not be such a bad thing.

1.020 (5.0P) is high for the beer you are making; 1.010 (2.5P) would be a more appropriate FG.Insufficient aeration (leading to poor yeast growth), and/or insufficient pitching volumes are usually the cause. I've found that doubling the recommended pitch rate turns out to be more accurate, but preparing a yeast starter is even better. But I wouldn't worry about doing starters just yet.

On the Scotch Ale I just did, I wanted a contribution from an English yeast strain, but knew that particular strain 1) tends to be very flocculent and give up fermenting earlier that I would like, and 2) has an alcohol tolerance lower (~8%) than what I needed for this beer. I pitched a 60/40 blend of English strain with a more aggressive American Ale strain to compensate, but still got hung up at 5.0P (22.5P O.G.). At this point I decided to pitch additional American Ale yeast from another fermenter to clean it up, and managed to get it down to 4.0P. Next time, I will be pitching a 60/40 blend, but with American Ale yeast at 60%.

So, monitoring fermentation with a hydrometer is important, and I would recommend taking a sample out to test rather than testing directly. Homebrew suppliers sell something called a "wine thief (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5AgasOs7ZA)" you can use to take samples. I haven't used one of the design in the video, but it looks useful, especially in you are fermenting in a bucket.

You may want to have addition yeast ready to pitch in the event of a stuck fermentation, but be sure to aerate sufficiently and pitch enough yeast and you should be fine.

Watching the dialogue here tells me you guys are coming along nicely in your understanding of homebrewing! Cheers!

[Libertytree]

Insufficient aeration means exactly what and how would you correct it?

As far as wine thiefs are concerned...my $ were a little tight at the time so the turkey basters at the dollar store did the trick:)

[BrewTech]

Insufficient aeration means exactly what and how would you correct it?

As far as wine thiefs are concerned...my $ were a little tight at the time so the turkey basters at the dollar store did the trick:)

Yeast need oxygen in the wort at the time of pitching to make their cell membranes.

Rather than a dope like me try to explain, the nice folks at Wyeast have put together a page (http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm) explaining yeast's need for O2 better than I ever could.

I'll be reading it as well...

Using a 6 gallon glass carboy, I generally just pitched the yeast and shook the crap out of it for about 5 minutes.

[Libertytree]

While I'm asking questions.... Is there a rule of thumb or a standard as to how much yeast is needed per gallon of wort? Would you then advise the doubling of that? I'm also curious if too much yeast can be added?

Edit to add...I found this on yeast http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrates.cfm

[BrewTech]

While I'm asking questions.... Is there a rule of thumb or a standard as to how much yeast is needed per gallon of wort? Would you then advise the doubling of that? I'm also curious if too much yeast can be added?

Edit to add...I found this on yeast http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrates.cfm

Commercial pitching rate is generally accepted to be 1,000,000 cells per milliliter of wort per degree Plato.

So, you can see that Wyeast's recommended pitch rates are considerably lower than that. They are recommending 6 million at 15P. That's why I recommend pitching double that.

Fast fermentations will result in low esters, but trust me on this... that's exactly what you guys are looking for.

You guys won't ever pitch enough yeast to qualify for the consequences of "overpitching".

I just overpitched the crap out of the 23.5P Imperial Stout I collaborated with two other SD breweries to make yesterday (Like, 6 gallons of active slurry in 8+ bbls). I'll let you know what happens with so-called overpitching, tastewise.

You will get a serious krausen, and possibly fermentation blowout if you are using an airlock, so I would do a blowoff tube (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ffd6maHvcxk/TwCsI_eRQBI/AAAAAAAABH0/R-B2c3EaxuM/s400/blow-off-tube.jpg)instead.

[Libertytree]

Commercial pitching rate is generally accepted to be 1,000,000 cells per milliliter of wort per degree Plato.

So, you can see that Wyeast's recommended pitch rates are considerably lower than that. They are recommending 6 million at 15P. That's why I recommend pitching double that.

Fast fermentations will result in low esters, but trust me on this... that's exactly what you guys are looking for.

You guys won't ever pitch enough yeast to qualify for the consequences of "overpitching".

I just overpitched the crap out of the 23.5P Imperial Stout I collaborated with two other SD breweries to make yesterday (Like, 6 gallons of active slurry in 8+ bbls). I'll let you know what happens with so-called overpitching, tastewise.

You will get a serious krausen, and possibly fermentation blowout if you are using an airlock, so I would do a blowoff tube (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ffd6maHvcxk/TwCsI_eRQBI/AAAAAAAABH0/R-B2c3EaxuM/s400/blow-off-tube.jpg)instead.

What constitutes 1,000,000 cells?

[Libertytree]

Isn't your new batch that has the 23.5P reading a beer that is considered "high gravity"? Wyeast says that the usual specs don't apply in that case and need to be bumped up for different factors. Here's the C&P of it. The part that is bolded makes me scratch my head.

I haven't tried to make a high gravity beer yet but I want to understand it.



High Gravity Brewing Brewing beers with high original gravities (above 1.065) requires some modifications to normal brewing procedures. Factors that will determine success or failure in high gravity brewing are pitch rates, nutrient addition and oxygenation.


Pitch Rates
Increased wort gravity causes increased stress on yeast due to increased osmotic pressure and increased alcohol levels. It is necessary to increase your pitch rates when increasing the wort gravity. A general rule of thumb is to pitch one million cells per milliliter per degree plato. So a 20 degree plato (1.080 s.g.) wort would require 20 million cells per milliliter.

Home brewers will either need to pitch more packages of yeast or make a starter. When using an Activator 125ml package, 1 package to 5 gallons will give around 6 million cells per milliter. This is clearly too low for high gravity brewing and will cause inconsistent results and usually high terminal gravities.


Nutrient

Essential nutrient levels are typically reduced during high gravity brewing. This is a function of either increased binding of nitrogen during boiling or dilution of essential nutrients by adjunct addition. Additions of Wyeast Nutrient will restore essential nutrient levels to provide healthy fermentation.


Oxygenation
As wort gravity increases, solubility of oxygen decreases. It is very important to compensate for the decrease in solubility by oxygenating more aggressively. When brewing high gravity beers, it is best to oxygenate with pure oxygen through a scintered stone.

[BrewTech]

What constitutes 1,000,000 cells?

Yeast manufacturers will give specs as to how many cells is contained in a given pitch volume (packaged by them, of course). If you really want to get nutty, get a microscope and a hemocytometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemocytometer), which is basically a microscope slide with grids, and you count the number of cells per grid which allows you to calculate cell count per unit of volume.

I've never used one... hell, I've never seen one! But that's what self-respecting commercial brewers use, along with other precision measuring devices, to maintain product quality and consistency.

One of these days I will talk the boss into buying me some cool toys...Ooo(

I think if you just double your usual pitch, you will see improved beer quality.

[Libertytree]

I finally found something that makes sense to my simple mind. http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php What ya think BT?

Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter.

[Glass]

thanks for the info. I was wondering, seeing as I am still in primary ferment if there is anything I can do to re-fire things?

Reading around there are some nutrients or some such you can toss in to try and restart the ferment. Not sure if it is worth it at this point.

thoughts?

[Libertytree]

thanks for the info. I was wondering, seeing as I am still in primary ferment if there is anything I can do to re-fire things?

Reading around there are some nutrients or some such you can toss in to try and restart the ferment. Not sure if it is worth it at this point.

thoughts?

I had the exact same thing happen to my last batch, BT said in the garbage can thread it was ok to pitch more yeast. Different yeasts and circumstances though. See what your reading is tomorrow...unless tomorrow is today for you? Lots of folks let their ferments run for 2 weeks, so a couple more days cant hurt anything.

[BrewTech]

I finally found something that makes sense to my simple mind. http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php What ya think BT?

Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter.

I will say that my experience with using dry yeast has been 99% positive. I agree that dry yeasts don't need to be started, just rehydrated under favorable conditions. And that's trick...

I know of a particular beer that won gold medals at both the GABF and World Beer Cup using dry yeast, and in what is likely the most competitive category. Those who poo-poo dry yeast (especially from Fermentis) have their heads up their ass.

BTW, Jamil Zainasheff is one of the foremost knowledgeable folks when it comes to brewing in general, and homebrewing specifically. I've based many brewing decisions on what he has to say about a particular subject. If he says he gets a particular cell count from a given weight of a given dry yeast, then it's the truth as far as I am concerned.

He also owns Heretic Brewing Co. (http://hereticbrewing.com/home).. very nice beer!

[Libertytree]

Excellent! I can't believe I stumbled on his page but I'll use his calcs from here on out. I would have never known who he was without you pointing it out.

[Glass]

Hydrometer Readings so far
Original reading was not done.
1st reading was 1.023 (@18C Day 4).
2nd reading was 1.020 (@22C Day 7).
3rd reading was 1.020 (@21.5 Day 8).
4th reading was 1.019 (@21C Day 9)
5th reading was 1.018 (@21C Day 10)

I think we are still moving although slowly. Ambient was 29C today. I did not add any chill to the water in the trough with the Fermenter yesterday or today and I note that the fermenter seemed to maintain 20 - 21C. Still has damp towel and fan.

Tomorrow will be 32C. I may chill the water tomorrow but not by much. 36C every day after that. Might need to up the cooling a little then.

[Libertytree]

It's getting there! Patience is a good thing though cause it's easy to want to hurry up and bottle, ie get to drinkin :)

You wouldn't by chance have a pic of how you're chilling your fermenter would ya?

[Glass]

yes patience is a virtue and drinking ...... go hand in hand. hehe. I'm happy to wait but also ready to leap into action to try and save anything that might be going to spoil if it trends that way. So it pays to be a bit vigilant in case.

The cooling is basic swamp cooler as per BT's advice. Fermenter is standing in the laundry trough in about 1 1/2" of water. I have a towel which I soak and drape over it. The towel wicks the water, which also works better than I thought it would. Other than that I pour water over it a couple times in the day. I add frozen bottles to the water.

A fan blows over it during the day - oscillating. So basic but works surprisingly well/

If I add the bottles and leave in then the temp gets pretty low, into the 18s when ambient is low 20's. The last couple days I have stood a bottle in water than pour the water over. Seems enough in these temps but I think the next couple days will be different as its getting warm now.

[Glass]

Hydrometer Readings so far
Original reading was not done.
1st reading was 1.023 (@18C Day 4).
2nd reading was 1.020 (@22C Day 7).
3rd reading was 1.020 (@21.5 Day 8).
4th reading was 1.019 (@21C Day 9)
5th reading was 1.018 (@21C Day 10)
6th reading was 1.018 (@20C Day 11)

The only things I can say about today are that its definately 1.018 where yesterday it was fudged a bit. Ambient was 29.7C. Fermenter ran to 20C. I can't believe it ran so cold when it's just sitting in water in a tub but that was where it was today. Outside it was 33C. Same tomorrow then 39 for next 5+ days. We're having a heatwave. Not sure if it's tropical though. I'm counting on the increasing temps to lift us up a little towards the end but the fermenter or the beer seems to be ignoring the laws of thermodynamics. So far at least.

[Libertytree]

Your ferment temps are well within the standard of 18-20C/64-68F... you even have play on the high end. If I was gonna change anything I might switch to an ale yeast that has a higher temp tolerance, you might not have to do the trough/ice deal. You've done a great job keeping the temps down and perfect for lager yeast.

[BrewTech]

yes patience is a virtue and drinking ...... go hand in hand. hehe. I'm happy to wait but also ready to leap into action to try and save anything that might be going to spoil if it trends that way. So it pays to be a bit vigilant in case.

The cooling is basic swamp cooler as per BT's advice. Fermenter is standing in the laundry trough in about 1 1/2" of water. I have a towel which I soak and drape over it. The towel wicks the water, which also works better than I thought it would. Other than that I pour water over it a couple times in the day. I add frozen bottles to the water.

A fan blows over it during the day - oscillating. So basic but works surprisingly well/

If I add the bottles and leave in then the temp gets pretty low, into the 18s when ambient is low 20's. The last couple days I have stood a bottle in water than pour the water over. Seems enough in these temps but I think the next couple days will be different as its getting warm now.

That's exactly how I used to control my fermentation temps... an important thing to remember is that ideal fermentation temperature is great, but more important is to keep the temp as stable as possible. Yeast tend to not like wide temp swings, especially if they are not gradual. This is why fermenting vessels in a commercial brewery are thermostatically controlled using glycol refrigeration. There are times when I will bring a ferment temp out of its normal range to create (or inhibit, as the case may be) certain flavor characteristics, but I will still make sure the temp doesn't change too suddenly, or too often.

Glass, you definitely have the right idea for keeping the ferment temperature under control. It's cheap, easy, and effective, which is exactly why I used to do it that way, and still would be if I was in a position to homebrew.

But, in the end, the best advice is

Don't worry, relax, have a homebrew.

~ Charlie Papazian

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[Glass]

Don't worry, relax, have a homebrew.

~ Charlie Papazian
http://asset.zcache.com/assets/graphics/s.gifhttp://asset.zcache.com/assets/graphics/s.gif

a Wise man.

The internet says the kit actually comes with an Ale yeast. That means we are below ideal temps for that kind of yeast. We will know for next time. I did say at the begining I thought I was low balling it and expecting a longer ferment.

I think I am ranging around 2 - 3 degrees max and on most days it's not moving more than 1C. There is quite a bit of temperature inertia in 5Gal of flavoured water. It can be both a positive or a negative.

[BrewTech]

Your ferment temps are well within the standard of 18-20C/64-68F... you even have play on the high end. If I was gonna change anything I might switch to an ale yeast that has a higher temp tolerance, you might not have to do the trough/ice deal. You've done a great job keeping the temps down and perfect for lager yeast.

I wasn't aware (or forgot) that Glass was using a lager yeast. Those temps are WAY too hot for a lager yeast. Optimum range for lager yeast is 6-15C, ale yeasts work best 18-22C.

Glass, are you anywhere near a production brewery? If so, you could probably ask them to order you some White Labs yeast from here in San Diego (http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew/listings).

If you want a yeast that truly works well at high temps, find a saison yeast. Some of the best saisons are fermented at 90F+. However, the resulting beer isn't going to be a lager! (Though it is very light, dry, and tangy).

[Glass]

Ok just to clarify. I am brewing a kit lager and the yeast they provide is an ale yeast due to beginers using the kits, easier/faster ferment less screw ups etc. I didn't know this at the time. It will be lagerish but I realise it's not really but it will drink well when frosty. I also did not know how effective the swamp cooler would be.

Anyway in order to remain stable on ferment temps I chose to keep working the temps where they are and hoped to creep the temps up gradually as the ambient weather gets hotter.

[BrewTech]

Ok just to clarify. I am brewing a kit lager and the yeast they provide is an ale yeast due to beginers using the kits, easier/faster ferment less screw ups etc. I didn't know this at the time. It will be lagerish but I realise it's not really but it will drink well when frosty. I also did not know how effective the swamp cooler would be.

Anyway in order to remain stable on ferment temps I chose to keep working the temps where they are and hoped to creep the temps up gradually as the ambient weather gets hotter.

Sounds like you have it well under control, I was a little confused about the type of yeast you were using. Even if the temp gets a little screwy, the beer will be fine. I've had my IPA at work go to 76F for two days (from 66F) because of a chiller system failure.

Turned out to be the best batch to date...

You should see if you can order some of this... it's seasonal...

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp009-australian-ale-yeast?s=homebrew

[Glass]

Hydrometer Readings so far Day 12

Original reading was not done.
1st reading was 1.023 (@18C Day 4).
2nd reading was 1.020 (@22C Day 7).
3rd reading was 1.020 (@21.5 Day 8).
4th reading was 1.019 (@21C Day 9)
5th reading was 1.018 (@21C Day 10)
6th reading was 1.018 (@20C Day 11)
7th reading was 1.017 (@21C Day 12)

Ambient today was 31. Fermenter ran at 21C. Outside it was 33C.

[Libertytree]

Does your kit state the final gravity (FG) you're supposed to arrive at?

[Glass]

no. theres no indication of what it should end up being. Just the two days same reading rule. I think we are done ferment wise. Bottling tomorrow night after work - Friday.

[Libertytree]

no. theres no indication of what it should end up being. Just the two days same reading rule. I think we are done ferment wise. Bottling tomorrow night after work - Friday.

I read it was 3 days but don't hold me to that.

[Glass]

yes I had heard the same. These kit guys seem to say 2. Not sure if that is just being eager or thirsty.

Hydrometer Readings so far Day 13

Original reading was not done.
1st reading was 1.023 (@18C Day 4).
2nd reading was 1.020 (@22C Day 7).
3rd reading was 1.020 (@21.5 Day 8).
4th reading was 1.019 (@21C Day 9)
5th reading was 1.018 (@21C Day 10)
6th reading was 1.018 (@20C Day 11)
7th reading was 1.017 (@21C Day 12)
8th reading was 1.016 (@22C Day 13)

Ambient today was 33.2 Fermenter ran at 22C. Outside it was 38C.

I don't think I'm ever confident of the reading at the time. I struggle to read the scale so unless it's a couple points its hard to make out. I need to pick up a mag glass some where.

It seems clear I didn't need to add chill to the water in the trough to this point.

[Libertytree]

Looks like it's a good thing you didn't rely on the two day readings or you would have bottled at 1.020, days 7-8.

[Glass]

would seem so. We broke the barrier for sure. I will bottle today. Still smells good. Noticeably less sweet smell but still sweet. Obvious reasons for that. Detectable though. Its a very light body beer. I think I mention that. Reminds me of Dos Equis.

Hydrometer Readings so far Day 14

Original reading was not done.
1st reading was 1.023 (@18C Day 4).
2nd reading was 1.020 (@22C Day 7).
3rd reading was 1.020 (@21.5 Day 8).
4th reading was 1.019 (@21C Day 9)
5th reading was 1.018 (@21C Day 10)
6th reading was 1.018 (@20C Day 11)
7th reading was 1.017 (@21C Day 12)
8th reading was 1.016 (@22C Day 13)
9th reading was 1.016 (@23C Day 14)

Ambient today was 34C Fermenter ran at 23C. Outside it was 38C.

[Libertytree]

Woohoo, bottlin' day!

A little trick I learned...fill a bottle then just set the cap on top, set it aside, but don't cap it yet, do this with a bunch of them, then after 30 mins cap them. What I found by doing this is that it eliminates a bit of mustiness that seems to accumulate between the cap and the fill line. Letting the caps rest on the bottles allows them to vent.

[Glass]

yes bottling day. went smoothly until there was much beer on the floor, but not catastrophe. just sticky everywhere. Need more space to maneuver and practice. Was using a bottle filler wand thing. Just pushes into the tap and needs some care when using.

A fair amount of sediment remained. Yeast was there but majority of it looked like fermentables to me. More aeration, mixing next time to be sure. See if it's different result.

thanks for the tip. I was unsure if it was ok to sit the lids on for a while. I was going to fill them all and then go back and screw them down. I did that in lots of 5 in the end, so not much air time on this one. will do that next time for sure.

[Libertytree]

I had the exact same mess my 1st time bottling as well and knew I needed to do something as there's no avoiding spilling beer when bottling.Then by happenchance I came across one of these in the garbage, it works perfectly! The one shown in the pic isn't the one I have but it's a lot cheaper than comparable ones on amazon. I removed the turf and bottle on the plastic tray that has holes in it.

http://www.amazon.com/PAW-Puppy-Trainer-Indoor-Restroom/dp/B005FLN2FO/ref=pd_sbs_petsupplies_4



http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71VD3xZp93L._SX522_.jpg

[Libertytree]

What type of bottler do ya have? Handheld or stand up?

[Glass]

using PET bottles so screw on caps. bought white ones for labeling.

I guess this would be my Friday the 13th Beer.

[Libertytree]

I've drank homebrew PET bottled beer and it was fine, you can use PET pop bottles with new screw tops too! Save a few $.

[BrewTech]

A fair amount of sediment remained. Yeast was there but majority of it looked like fermentables to me. More aeration, mixing next time to be sure. See if it's different result.

There will be some yeast, the rest are solid polyphenols and denatured proteins. Fermentable sugar are not visible in solution. Clearing that out prior to bottling will require cold conditioning at 0C for several days. Gelatin finings will make the beer perfectly clear if used correctly but I never hassled with that as a homebrewer... I was ok with the beer being slightly hazy, just not chunky.

Cold conditioning also improves the flavor dramatically.

[Libertytree]

yes bottling day. went smoothly until there was much beer on the floor, but not catastrophe. just sticky everywhere. Need more space to maneuver and practice. Was using a bottle filler wand thing. Just pushes into the tap and needs some care when using.

A fair amount of sediment remained. Yeast was there but majority of it looked like fermentables to me. More aeration, mixing next time to be sure. See if it's different result.

thanks for the tip. I was unsure if it was ok to sit the lids on for a while. I was going to fill them all and then go back and screw them down. I did that in lots of 5 in the end, so not much air time on this one. will do that next time for sure.

Hey Glass! Surely you've cracked one by now? We really want to know how it turned out!

[Glass]

Hey LT. I haven't cracked one yet. Friday next marks 2 weeks in the bottle so I was going to chill a few and try them then. I would say 50% are well carbonated now. Not much flex in the bottles. Being plastic. The other half are going to need these next couple days and maybe a bit longer.

I've been trying a few ale styles out. Not an ale drinker normally but have had a few nice examples.

Little Creates Bright Ale - not bad. A light low hop ale. Easy drinker. very high quality brew. This is my xMas day drink. Little Creatures is a local boutique brewery who have boomed. They have an amazing setup where you have big eatery one end of the brewery and you can sit there and see the brewery in action.

James Squire India Pale Ale. Like this one. Again Light ale. low hop. Almost identical to the one above.

Little Creates India Pale. More hoppy ale stye. Nice but a slower drinker for me. Stronger flavors.

If I made some thing like #1 and #2 I could be happy.

[Libertytree]

Hey LT. I haven't cracked one yet. Friday next marks 2 weeks in the bottle so I was going to chill a few and try them then. I would say 50% are well carbonated now. Not much flex in the bottles. Being plastic. The other half are going to need these next couple days and maybe a bit longer.

I've been trying a few ale styles out. Not an ale drinker normally but have had a few nice examples.

Little Creates Bright Ale - not bad. A light low hop ale. Easy drinker. very high quality brew. This is my xMas day drink. Little Creatures is a local boutique brewery who have boomed. They have an amazing setup where you have big eatery one end of the brewery and you can sit there and see the brewery in action.

James Squire India Pale Ale. Like this one. Again Light ale. low hop. Almost identical to the one above.

Little Creates India Pale. More hoppy ale stye. Nice but a slower drinker for me. Stronger flavors.

If I made some thing like #1 and #2 I could be happy.

Try one NOW! They're generally ready in 7 days bro! Yeah added time makes them better but you're ready to rock my man! Put one in the freezer for 45 mins and give us a taste test!

[Glass]

Try one NOW! They're generally ready in 7 days bro! Yeah added time makes them better but you're ready to rock my man! Put one in the freezer for 45 mins and give us a taste test!

hehe. I'm a patient man when it comes to the need to wait. Ok I've got one in the fridge. I have a fair bit of driving to do today so the beer intake is going to be pretty light on until I get home later tonight. But I'll try some at lunch, which is in about 4 hours from now.

[Libertytree]

hehe. I'm a patient man when it comes to the need to wait. Ok I've got one in the fridge. I have a fair bit of driving to do today so the beer intake is going to be pretty light on until I get home later tonight. But I'll try some at lunch, which is in about 4 hours from now.

Cool! Though the time difference always screws me up, lol. It's morning there right now?

[Glass]

9:15 in the am where i am right now.west coast.

[Libertytree]

9:15 in the am where i am right now.west coast.

Ok, it's almost 8:30pm here, eastern time zone, US, Tues night. Are you AU or NZ?

[Glass]

I am in AU.

So right now there are few people snoring away. We cracked a couple bottles that were in the fridge since yesterday.

Ok so this is definately an Australian lager. It has a "boisterous aroma and smells a lot like a local lager here called Emu Export lager. That beer is historically one of the first beers of western australia. They also make a bitter called Emu bitter . I would say this beer lands in the middle between these two.

The flavour is strong and I would liken it to an Indian Pale. Perhaps it's the yeast? It fits with the basic lagers we have had here. It is not light or smooth like the imports I have been drinking. This is a hairy chested beer.

Carbonated pretty well. Nice and clear. Rich golden colour so it darkened quite a bit since bottling. Has a light head but holds it ok.

Alcohol content I think would be about 4% but not more than that I would say.

So that would probably make it a successful brew. A few of the bottles need more time to carbonate a bit more but most are there now.

I would recommend this kit for anyone starting out. It's pretty much "Glass" proof which means anyone, even an idiot should be able to make some beer no worries. Brew the Australian Lager that comes with the kit and then I would say, quickly move on and try some other beer styles. I'd like something just a bit sweeter.

[Libertytree]

This is a total guestimate but as for what you're making your Original Gravity I attributed at 1.040 and your Final Gravity was 1.016, so your ABV works out to 5.25%. I realize that it's not conclusive either but here's a calculator for later on.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

(http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/)

[Glass]

thanks for that. I think those numbers could normally work. I pretty confident it's a bit light. I'm not disappointed by that. Just giving my measure of where it came in on the alcohol content. Gut feeling. We have a few nice mid strength beers here. Full flavoured so you don't miss out on anything drinking them. Feels about the same.

Anyway. Picture or it didn't happen.
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc88/glassgold/beer/beer1A_zpsa9bffc82.jpg

[BrewTech]

^ ^ ^ That's a nice looking pint! Too light? If I understand what you were trying to make, it looks perfect to me.

[Glass]

^ ^ ^ That's a nice looking pint! Too light? If I understand what you were trying to make, it looks perfect to me.

By light I meant the Alc Vol. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the beer. It is 100% an Australian lager. No Doubt. Had a few more yesterday and its certainly agreeable and thirst quenching. It does come out nice and clear, lots of good carbonation. Yes I am happy. But like you guys the brain is already working on the next 1 or 2 brews.

I can't say I've had beers from anywhere else that taste like an aussie lager. I haven't drunk all the worlds beers but I've tried a fair number. I think maybe a couple might come close. I recall a beer I had in BC but not the name. Red ale style maybe.

For this starter kit I think they should include one of their softer beers as an option. I've read some beer kit reviews and a fair number of people are put off with their first results and I think it is probably the beer style and its strong flavour rather than something not working out.

Tooheys have a pretty good product with this kit. The whole thing is "too easy".

[BrewTech]

By light I meant the Alc Vol.

That's right, I forgot... you foreigners use the term "light" to mean low alcohol... :p

[Glass]

I think we are at about day 12 in the bottle. Half of them are empty. Can't imagine what happened there.

The others are in various stages of ripeness. The benefit of brewing with these PET bottles is that you can tell when they are ripe with a little squeeze. So I have had some nice ripe ones and some that needed some more time. The ripe ones are good and carbonated. The others are a bit flat. Still drinkable but flat.

I haven't opened any for 3 or so days. I find now that the smell I mentioned before is mostly gone and the beer is very nice to drink. Still a strong flavour but it is mellowing fast. I am going to change my mind and say I will be doing this one again but it needs a couple weeks in the bottle to smooth out.

if I go and score another 15 bottles. I will have enough empties to bottle another brew while I finish off the remainder. Also been saving empty stubbies (330ml) but I'll need a capper for them.

People who tried it had varying opinions when it was strong on the nose. Every one agreed it was beer though.

[Glass]

Day 15 in the bottle and I can't count. Just put bottle #15 in the fridge to start chilling meaning we are half way. I know I can chill a beer to drinking temp with 25 minutes in the freezer but for beer to be truly cold I like 24 hrs in the fridge. So in they go for tomorrow, or the next day. hehe next day sure.

The scent has gone. It's pure beer now. Clean, clear, nice golden color. I won't repeat myself but it's good. I think it's better than store bought. I filter the water which gives a fairly soft water. People say you need a bit of hardness for good ferment. Probably or possibly but the beer is so clean.

I was watching craigtubes canadian blonde brew and he says he thinks the store bought beer has a kind of dirt aftertaste. I was sitting there thinking, he's right. That's the taste that makes me change beers, but eventually I can taste it in most of them. I think it's the CO2 forced carbonation because they all seem to have it. Mine doesn't. It has a nice creamy head. Lip smacking tasty. I wonder if it would taste different if I kegged it?

[Glass]

12 more days in the bottle. I have had the last remaining few sitting in a cool cupboard. I moved them to the fridge last night to make room for new brew. So they are cold and tantalising. I drink one.

Carbonation has improved. It persists nicely. I pour a half, refridge and maybe 20 or 30 later drink the remainder. the 2nd half does not develop a head any better than a commercial but it is still well carbonated. 1st half is good, creamy head to it that holds for a while. That smell was just there but overall it's saying real lager. The flavour is a nice clean aussie lager.

More conditioning. I think 6 left. Another couple weeks and we sample some more... .and maybe some KoB #2 as well.

I will take another photo nest time because I think the colour has changed.

[Glass]

Using beer math, I'm reckoning 35 days in the bottle now. The last 8 of those on the chill. Earlier there were 4 from the original brew. Now there are 3. This one did not have that smell to it. It smelt to me like beer. It has a hard to identify sweet smell, that's kind of like syrup. Malts perhaps. I don't know. I would expect there to be a fair amount of unfermented sugars there based on the FG numbers. I haven't smelt a beer like this other than maybe something with honey in it. It's like that but not exactly.

I am impressed with this beer. It gave good head. Nice and creamy. 2+ fingers. Nice lacing on the glass as I drank it. Carbonation is very consistent for the whole glass. 2nd glass was much improved experience on the usual 2nd glass.

I drink this home brew and I don't want to drink shop bought anymore. To me the difference is night and day. I know this is a kit from a commercial brewer so I don't really know what is in it but I know the water (I filter it) and the fermentables. I'm drink shop bought mostly while stretching this brew out until the next one is on stream. Also to see how it changes. Ideal would be to have the volume to keep it in bottles for 1 - 3 months at the right temps for the style.

If anyone is thinking about trying home brewing, beer, cider, ginger ale. do it. have a go. Its so easy and with some help I made some pretty good beer if I do say so myself. I said before am going to do this one again. for sure.

[Libertytree]

Using beer math, I'm reckoning 35 days in the bottle now. The last 8 of those on the chill. Earlier there were 4 from the original brew. Now there are 3. This one did not have that smell to it. It smelt to me like beer. It has a hard to identify sweet smell, that's kind of like syrup. Malts perhaps. I don't know. I would expect there to be a fair amount of unfermented sugars there based on the FG numbers. I haven't smelt a beer like this other than maybe something with honey in it. It's like that but not exactly.

I am impressed with this beer. It gave good head. Nice and creamy. 2+ fingers. Nice lacing on the glass as I drank it. Carbonation is very consistent for the whole glass. 2nd glass was much improved experience on the usual 2nd glass.

I drink this home brew and I don't want to drink shop bought anymore. To me the difference is night and day. I know this is a kit from a commercial brewer so I don't really know what is in it but I know the water (I filter it) and the fermentables. I'm drink shop bought mostly while stretching this brew out until the next one is on stream. Also to see how it changes. Ideal would be to have the volume to keep it in bottles for 1 - 3 months at the right temps for the style.

If anyone is thinking about trying home brewing, beer, cider, ginger ale. do it. have a go. Its so easy and with some help I made some pretty good beer if I do say so myself. I said before am going to do this one again. for sure.

Ain't that a great feeling?!, brewing beer that you'd rather drink more than the store bought beer and a whole lot less expensive to boot.

Now you've got the majority of the tools ya need, you just need to get another fermenting bucket or two, maybe another airlock and more bottles and you could always have one or two going all the time.

Congrats dude, I'm happy that your foray into brewing has turned out so well :)

I know I love seeing that big ol' stack of beer, opening one up and flipping the bird to the stores and the .gov, it's one sweet feeling.

[Glass]

Thats right LT. It's all of that. I had a bit of an epiphany this morning while I was reading that book on Farm tools and how to make em. Just reading the first few pages on how you should do it yourself if you can because no one can do it better or more economically than you can. They are talking about furniture and barns and gates and you name it. I know I'm only talking about beer but to me it makes the point.

Definately need a fridge for temp control of the ferment. Then I can get cranking.

Temperatures are going to be in the low 30's for the next week. Thinking about going again. Really need a 2 week forecast. but then you might not brew at all if you want things just so.

[Libertytree]

Thats right LT. It's all of that. I had a bit of an epiphany this morning while I was reading that book on Farm tools and how to make em. Just reading the first few pages on how you should do it yourself if you can because no one can do it better or more economically than you can. They are talking about furniture and barns and gates and you name it. I know I'm only talking about beer but to me it makes the point.

Definately need a fridge for temp control of the ferment. Then I can get cranking.

Temperatures are going to be in the low 30's for the next week. Thinking about going again. Really need a 2 week forecast. but then you might not brew at all if you want things just so.

Pardon me for saying this but you put way too much thought and consideration into the temps, the yeast will dictate your ferment. Of course having a ferment fridge will open new doors but it really isn't a make or break deal. Maybe I'm way off base but I brew in high temps all the time and although I've never gone into ferment chiller mode or even close I'm wondering about it at the same time.

I'd love to see/hear about you doing this same batch with no chilling done at all. I'll pay for the batch if it's fucked up.

[Glass]

yeah I know, I agree with what you are saying. I've worked many jobs where temps are pretty important from food distribution, hospitality -serving, furnace work, industrial tech so it gets into my thinking. I kind of like that aspect to some degree of obsession. After a couple of days at top end of the 30's everything starts absorbing more heat so everything is warm to the touch. Everything becomes a heat sink and takes a few days to cool down again. It is hot here at the moment. 1 week at ~40C. Even with a mid 30's day today, its fairly humid and everything is radiating that heat it absorbed over the week back out.

In winter I don't think I'll have much need for cooling, even for lagers. They wouldn't be down in the low teens but could be close. We will see come winter time. By then I hope to be able to put down sizable batches while the gettings good temp wise. By March we should be getting into the temp zone where chilling is not needed.

[BrewTech]

Temp matters. You guys are pushing fermentation specs to the extreme. If you like the beer you are producing then more power to ya! I think you guys will be pleasantly surprised, however, when you you put the yeast into a more comfortable temperature range. Trust me, the temp ranges for optimal fermentation by the manufacturers are not some wild guess!

Cheers!

[Glass]

yes I agree. I think we are all doing ok with what we have achieved so far. I'm going to put some feelers out see if there's an unwanted fridge out there. Something in the back of my head says I've seen one somewhere. Hazy at best. The stuff I made was pretty forgiving. They design it that way. Kind of like bait. Not too hard to do, can tolerate some brewing ignorance and still come out ok. I was lucky with the temps I had.

I bought another kit today. I was in another mass merchandise place and I walked past their home brew section which I didn't know they had. I've been there before looking and couldn't find it. So I grabbed a can and BE1. Then went to LHBS to get some more S-04 ale yeast. I'm going to do some of their kits when it's time. Anyway stand by for Kob #3.

I'm looking to improve my OG/mixing of fermentables and the wort aeration. Probably related things.

[Libertytree]

Temp matters. You guys are pushing fermentation specs to the extreme. If you like the beer you are producing then more power to ya! I think you guys will be pleasantly surprised, however, when you you put the yeast into a more comfortable temperature range. Trust me, the temp ranges for optimal fermentation by the manufacturers are not some wild guess!

Cheers!

It'll be nice to see the results once I've corrected my ferment temps. I've got a good idea of what I'm gonna do to fix it but like everything else it takes more money and will have to wait its turn. Next up is the wort chiller/sanitizer combo. The good thing right now is that the temps in the ferment room are right about 70F and not the usual 80-85F.

[Glass]

Then there were 2. 3rd last bottle of thee Australian lager was downed on Australia day. This beer was disappointing. Low carbonation. Flavour ok. Slighest whiff when opened but no lingering smell. I think maybe 5 or 6 in the whole batch were a bit flat. Will be interesting to see how the bottle cap comparo goes on KoB #2

I've got a line on a cheap fridge. Going to check it out tomorrow morning. It's 340L which is bigger than I wanted but it could be $150. It would hold a fermenter and probably a whole batch bottled as well. Will see.

[Libertytree]

Sounds like a great deal and when it comes to refrigerators bigger is always better. If I could only build a walk in cooler.

It seems in homebrew all beers are not created equally, I usually have 2 or 3 that don't turn out like the rest but they're still drinkable!

What did you do different in regards to the bottle caps in #1 vs #2?

[Glass]

I didn't get to check out the fridge. Just a flat out day from go to whoa.

Caps.
The beer kit PET bottles come with black caps that screw down and have that collar seal on them that you break when you open the cap.

I purchased some white caps that the LHBS had. I want to write on the cap so I thought they would be a good idea.

When I saw these white caps the description was something like: Safety cap. Ensures the safe release of excess pressure. Seals can be used only once.

So being an optomist I figured my beer could generate explosive pressure. I read the description and I assumed that the words "Safety Cap" mean this pressure release ability. But on reflection the words Seals can be used only once, was probably talking about the collar that gets left on the caps.

Anyway for KoB #2 I did half with the white caps and half with the regular caps to compare if there is any difference. I think the white capped bottles seem just a bit more carbonated than the other caps. Might be a bias, don't know.

Will be taste testing KoB #2 tonight. I selected 2 bottles, one white cap, one regular and chilled them both. Probably test 1 tonight and the 2nd on the next day.

[Libertytree]

It was my understanding that any of the screw caps could only be used once, collar or not.

[Glass]

yeah I was working on single use. The thing I forgot to say was that the white caps have a blue plastic seal inside the top of them.

I was unsure if the collar which is a tamper proof indicator or the blue seal was the "safety seal". Anyway no matter.

[Glass]

There was one bottle of beer in the fridge, only one bottle of beer.

The 2nd to last bottle of KoB #1 was shared with good friends on the weekend. These guys got me into the brew-on premises caper a few years ago now and they know some small amount about home brewing although haven't done any for a while. So while it was only one glass a piece the consensus was "bloody good beer". It was the very good beer IMO. Good thick creamy head minimum 2 fingers. Lots of carbonation and a smooth easy to chug flavour.

I took one of those and a couple of these store bought bitter ales I've been drinking. Well, beer friend said, "shit I didn't think they made this stuff anymore". You know that kind of pucker reaction in your mouth you get when your mouth is dealing with an astringent flavour. Sometimes you need a couple mouthfuls to aclimatise or kill your tastebuds. What ever it is. Anyway. Chalk and cheese. While the store bought is drinkable the pucker grimace with the first few mouthfuls made me chuckle. Anyway he was a good sport and two thumbs up on the home brew lager.

I have to say that I really liked this lager in the end. It came out very tasty and smooth. It met and exceeded my expectations. I want hold on the last one and never drink it but then again "is beer is good".

when I fridged the bottles from that batch, the bottles where nicely pressurised going in. Being plastic you can squeeze them so when they are hard to squeeze your getting close to ripe. Once in the fridge though I found the bottles go a bit soft again. Anyway the two remaining bottles did firmed up again nicely during the few weeks they have been in there. And now there was one.