Sub $20 silver on the horizon?

[madfranks]

Currently silver spot is $20.59, trending lower. What do you think, will we see sub $20 silver again?

[Shami-Amourae]

Interesting conversation on the issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXr0oFN1uiQ

I think Litecoin will surpass the price of Silver at the rate things are going.

[mamboni]

Yes, it s quite possible, maybe probable. From where I sit, the entire financial world has gone mad. The FED is a serial bubble machine. The world is awash with liquidity in serach of yield. The markets have discounted fundamentals entirely, either because there is no real growth, or because the rate of returns is simply too slow to bother with. The financial markets are completely in the thrall of speculation, which means chasing momentum plays. So silver and gold are very much out of favor and virtual monies are the new hot momentum play. This is madness on a total mass scale. You have two choices: you can sit back and wait for the reality check/market collapse which is inevitable but impossible to predict when; you can jump in the shark tank and try to grab some free money and risk getting a limb bitten off. It's all up to you!

Personally, I'm not trying to get rich quick or make more money than the fundamentals will allow. I'm trying not to get poor and hold on to what I've got. I'm therefore sitting here on the patio sipping my Manhattan and watching the shark tank action.

I do know soon that amongst Bitcoin and Litecoin owners there will be a few very happy and wealthy, and many multiple others in tears and misery and a lot poorer. It's a zero sum game.

[Shami-Amourae]

Silver Shortage 2013. Silver supply has almost run out. Load up on thousands of ounces of cheap Silver with your worthless fiat dollars and get some! Silver is going to $10,000,000 an ounce!

http://s23.postimg.org/mufimc4e3/11_18_2013_9_18_57_AM.png (http://www.libertycoinservice.com/images/stories/lcsnewsletter/2005/october.pdf)

[madfranks]

This is madness on a total mass scale. You have two choices: you can sit back and wait for the reality check/market collapse which is inevitable but impossible to predict when; you can jump in the shark tank and try to grab some free money and risk getting a limb bitten off. It's all up to you!

Excellent metaphor, and quite true.

[Shami-Amourae]

the fundamentals will allow.

I think the fundamentals have changed. We are now in the virtual age. Everything that happened for will not rhyme or reason with what will happen from now on. You might be right, but keep in mind that things really ARE different today.

[mamboni]

I think the fundamentals have changed. We are now in the virtual age. Everything that happened for will not rhyme or reason with what will happen from now on. You might be right, but keep in mind that things really ARE different today.

In the end, man lives in the physical space. His quality of life is determined by the comforts in his home, the foods he eats, the amenities he can buy and the luxuries he can afford. These are all tangible. Sooner or later, notional values must be synchronized with real world values. This has not changed in 6000 years. This time is not different, only far more complex.

[Shami-Amourae]

People merge with machines. War with fleshy peoples and machine peoples. Machine peoples win. Earth destroyed. Machine people move on to conquer the galaxy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLMn3_SzBiU

What do you guys really think the singularity is?

[madfranks]

I'm currently reading this book, and it is definitely forecasting a very different age in the future:

http://images.betterworldbooks.com/014/The-Age-of-Spiritual-Machines-Kurzweil-Ray-9780140282023.jpg

[mamboni]

Excellent metaphor, and quite true.

I hasten to add that that the free money you are trying to grab is in actuality someone else's limb!

[Shami-Amourae]

I'm currently reading this book, and it is definitely forecasting a very different age in the future:

http://images.betterworldbooks.com/014/The-Age-of-Spiritual-Machines-Kurzweil-Ray-9780140282023.jpg

I'm referring to Deus Ex actually. The guy behind it is Warren Spector.


I pump it on this forum since I believe it is a vision of what is to come. You can't watch videos of it online to get what happens, you literally have to play it, immerse yourself in the experience and make all the decisions which impact the fate of humanity.

[gunDriller]

Currently silver spot is $20.59, trending lower. What do you think, will we see sub $20 silver again?

hell yes.

maybe what the Cartel needs is a cheerleading team.

"Double Waterfall, Double Waterfall, Ooh Ooh Ooh !!"

dressed entirely in ... Tungsten ?


referring to the double waterfall price drops we see on those days that get 5 to 6% down on Silver.

[madfranks]

I hasten to add that that the free money you are trying to grab is in actuality someone else's limb!

On this we disagree. Trading for profit does not necessarily have a victim, though that's what mainstream economics would teach us.

If you invest in a startup company for $1 per share, and this company grows and its value is recognized by more and more, it begins to offer more services, and the company becomes larger and more valuable, then you cash out at $100 per share, is there really a victim? The company is not a startup anymore, it is a mature business that is providing value to many more people than it did before. Your larger profit is taken out of the value of the larger company which provides larger value to a larger group of people.

Apply this to cryptos, investing early in a young currency system with little value and little to offer. But it grows, and millions of people recognize the value that this currency provides and decide they want to be a part of it. The whole system grows, and as it does, it becomes more valuable than before because it's serving more customers than it used to, and it buys more products and services than it used to. So if you cash out at $100, again, your profit comes not at the expense of someone's limb, but is taken from the larger value of the whole.

[madfranks]

It's a zero sum game.

I don't think so. What crypto currencies offer is actually quite a valuable thing, and many people will be better off with this additional option at their disposal. Overall, humanity is wealthier with them than without.

[EE_]

Originally Posted by mamboni
This is madness on a total mass scale. You have two choices: you can sit back and wait for the reality check/market collapse which is inevitable but impossible to predict when; you can jump in the shark tank and try to grab some free money and risk getting a limb bitten off. It's all up to you!

Or you can come over to the 'Loser's Lounge' and feel like a loser with other loser's.
Some of the loser's are sitting on gold and silver turds, hoping.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?74075-The-Loser-s-Lounge

[mamboni]

On this we disagree. Trading for profit does not necessarily have a victim, though that's what mainstream economics would teach us.

If you invest in a startup company for $1 per share, and this company grows and its value is recognized by more and more, it begins to offer more services, and the company becomes larger and more valuable, then you cash out at $100 per share, is there really a victim? The company is not a startup anymore, it is a mature business that is providing value to many more people than it did before. Your larger profit is taken out of the value of the larger company which provides larger value to a larger group of people.

Apply this to cryptos, investing early in a young currency system with little value and little to offer. But it grows, and millions of people recognize the value that this currency provides and decide they want to be a part of it. The whole system grows, and as it does, it becomes more valuable than before because it's serving more customers than it used to, and it buys more products and services than it used to. So if you cash out at $100, again, your profit comes not at the expense of someone's limb, but is taken from the larger value of the whole.

Bitcoin is a Ponzi. It is not a real good or commodity. It's price is dictated purely by demand. That it is a convenient currency is a side benfit. Nothing of value was created to increase its price. If the mass of bitcoin owners move to sell the price would collapse. Where is the intrinsic value? Did bitcoin create a tangible enterprise with real value-added jobs where starter materials were manufatured into a finished product? Did bitcoin created kilowatts that I could use to heat my home? C'mon nigga, get serious.

[Shami-Amourae]

Bitcoin is a Ponzi. It is not a real good or commodity. It's price is dictated purely by demand. That it is a convenient currency is a side benfit. Nothing of value was created to increase its price. If the mass of bitcoin owners move to sell the price would collapse. Where is the intrinsic value? Did bitcoin create a tangible enterprise with real value-added jobs where starter materials were manufatured into a finished product? Did bitcoin created kilowatts that I could use to heat my home? C'mon nigga, get serious.

I agree with you in general, but I think the point is the concept of cryptocurrencies. I believe more in Litecoin than Bitcoin. That's where my money is parked. If one crypto fails, I think another will take the reins. The point is this concept is here to stay. The cat is out of the bag.

[ximmy]

TPTB drop the prices then tell all their friends to exchange printing press paper for precious metal.

[madfranks]

Bitcoin is a Ponzi. It is not a real good or commodity. It's price is dictated purely by demand. That it is a convenient currency is a side benfit. Nothing of value was created to increase its price. If the mass of bitcoin owners move to sell the price would collapse. Where is the intrinsic value? Did bitcoin create a tangible enterprise with real value-added jobs where starter materials were manufatured into a finished product? Did bitcoin created kilowatts that I could use to heat my home? C'mon nigga, get serious.

Tangibility is not required for something to be valuable. The internet isn't tangible, but is immensely valuable. Internet mail (e-mail) is not tangible but still very valuable. Internet services of all sorts provide real value to real people. So why not an internet money?

And, FWIW, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of new companies offering products and services based on cryptocurrencies. The value may not be tangible, but it is real.

[mamboni]

Tangibility is not required for something to be valuable. The internet isn't tangible, but is immensely valuable. Internet mail (e-mail) is not tangible but still very valuable. Internet services of all sorts provide real value to real people. So why not an internet money?

And, FWIW, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of new companies offering products and services based on cryptocurrencies. The value may not be tangible, but it is real.

A currency is not necessarily a store of value. It is a container for moving wealth between buyer and seller. That is all. Gold and silver are currencies and stores of value. Bitcoin is a currency, period.

I will make you an offer: you can have $5000 worth of silver bullion or $5000 of bitcoins. You agree to put your choice in a safe and not touch it for five years. Which would you choose? Would you bet your entire net worth against the possibility that bitcoin could be either worthless or priced at only a tiny fraction of it's present dollar price in 5 years?

[Shami-Amourae]

I will make you an offer: you can have $5000 worth of silver bullion or $5000 of bitcoins. You agree to put your choise in a safe and not touch it for five years. Which would you choose? Would you bet your entire net worth against the possibility that bitcoin could be either worthless or priced at only a tiny fraction of it's present dollar price in 5 years?

Why not both? Why the absolutes? Why not $4,000 in Silver and $1,000 into Bitcoin? Your chances of being ahead are higher if you diversify. Both have a place, and both have value.

My point is they BOTH have a place. This isn't one is good and the other is bad.

[mamboni]

Why not both? Why the absolutes? Why not $4,000 in Silver and $1,000 into Bitcoin? Your chances of being ahead are higher if you diversify. Both have a place, and both have value.

My point is they BOTH have a place. This isn't one is good and the other is bad.

You must choose only one! Yours is one scenario of many. It means nothing to hypothesize about what if. You're obfuscating here. Choose one! That is all I am offering. It's my gambit not yours.

[madfranks]

A currency is not necessarily a store of value. It is a container for moving wealth between buyer and seller. That is all. Gold and silver are currencies and stores of value. Bitcoin is a currency, period.

I agree with you. I would not, and do not, hold virtual currencies as stores of value. They are a good means to expand your economic choices in a world-wide economy.


I will make you an offer: you can have $5000 worth of silver bullion or $5000 of bitcoins. You agree to put your choise in a safe and not touch it for five years. Which would you choose? Would you bet your entire net worth against the possibility that bitcoin could be either worthless or priced at only a tiny fraction of it's present dollar price in 5 years?

I assume your offer is hypothetical, if not I'll take you up on it and collect $5000 in silver. A mix of junk silver and SAEs would be great, thanks. :)

[Shami-Amourae]

You must choose only one! Yours is one scenario of many. It means nothing to hypothesize about what if. You're obfuscating here. Choose one! That is all I am offering. It's my gambit not yours.

I'd go with the Silver.

All in 90% junk silver like madfranks. I'm a big fan of junk silver. :)

[mamboni]

I agree with you. I would not, and do not, hold virtual currencies as stores of value. They are a good means to expand your economic choices in a world-wide economy.



I assume your offer is hypothetical, if not I'll take you up on it and collect $5000 in silver. A mix of junk silver and SAEs would be great, thanks. :)

Yes, we agree! The one thing I do like about bitcoin is that it is sticking a virtual lit firecracker of the collective bunghole of the central bankers and that's a good thing. Bitcoin is going to cause the masses to ask: why do we need a central bank anyway? That is the last thing Central Banks want. They will find a way to torpedo bitcoin before this happens. For example, for all we know it is buying up of bitcoins by FED operatives that is driving up the price. At the opertune time, they will dump bitcoin and crash the dollar price.

[mamboni]

I'd go with the Silver.

All in 90% junk silver like madfranks. I'm a big fan of junk silver. :)

Ding Ding Ding Ding...........that is the correct answer! Your prize is a Mogambo Guru Junior Ranger Hat, with geniune imitation silver trim!!!! Congrulations!

[sirgonzo420]

In the end, man lives in the physical space. His quality of life is determined by the comforts in his home, the foods he eats, the amenities he can buy and the luxuries he can afford. These are all tangible. Sooner or later, notional values must be synchronized with real world values. This has not changed in 6000 years. This time is not different, only far more complex.

People use debt-laden paper currency without too many problems.

A non-debt-laden digital currency, that isn't blatantly manipulated by the international banking cartel isn't too far a leap.


In 10 years, Bitcoin will either be worth nothing or $100,000's each.

For a small investment, the upshot potential has greatly outweighed the risk of loss of a modest amount.

If the membership had been doing their due diligence on GIM, where Bitcoin was brought up, a veritable negligible "investment"... like... enough to buy a cup of coffee or a pizza, would be enough to retire off of now.

Bitcoin is just getting started. The fact that you have heard the word makes you a sort of early adopter.


I take you to be an intelligent man, Dr Mamboni.... Have you read the Bitcoin whitepaper (http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf)?

[madfranks]

Ding Ding Ding Ding...........that is the correct answer! Your prize is a Mogambo Guru Junior Ranger Hat, with geniune imitation silver trim!!!! Congrulations!

Wow, I've always wanted a Mogambo Guru Junior Ranger Hat (MGJRH). :)

[Shami-Amourae]

Ding Ding Ding Ding...........that is the correct answer! Your prize is a Mogambo Guru Junior Ranger Hat, with geniune imitation silver trim!!!! Congrulations!

Almost all my wealth is held in Gold/Silver. I am a Gold and Silver person. I have my doubts, and I am a bit bitter I bought a lot at higher prices. I'm actually more bitter I sold around 400 Bitcoins at around $4-16 dollars. I make a lot of right decisions but my timing its absolutely horrendous.

I just believe everything lately on this forum is one side versus another. I don't like that. I think we have a new tool in the tool chest and should use it alongside the old tool. Ideally I think wealth should be stored in Gold/Silver and crytos should be used as currency for day to day use. I don't want to have a Gold/Silver credit card where everyone stores their PMs in a vault and you get a card for it. In my ideal world cryptos replace the dollar and other currencies and allow government-control free transactions, while you have your core stash of precious metals in a safe place. I'd like Gold and Silver to be priced in cryptos one day, not dollars.

My perspective is unique since I live and work in virtual reality so I have a strong technology bias and I'm a bit of a transhumanist (the non-Globalist kind.)

[gunDriller]

Almost all my wealth is held in Gold/Silver. I am a Gold and Silver person. I have my doubts, and I am a bit bitter I bought a lot at higher prices. I'm actually more bitter I sold around 400 Bitcoins at around $4-16 dollars.

wow. 240K worth of Bitcoin at today's prices.

my condolences.


when you redeem Bitcoins for FRN's, is there a 'spread' or fee ?

[mamboni]

Wow, I've always wanted a Mogambo Guru Junior Ranger Hat (MGJRH). :)

Not just the regular hat, but the limited edition with genuine imitation silver trim!

[Shami-Amourae]

wow. 240K worth of Bitcoin at today's prices.

my condolences.


when you redeem Bitcoins for FRN's, is there a 'spread' or fee ?

It depends where you do it and how. Most exchanges have fees. You can also buy/sell in real life with smartphone/laptops in public. No fees there. Many exchanges have fees when you pull your cryptos out of their exchanges too. That's how the exchanges make a profit.

I will give you some advice though based on my experiences though. If Bitcoin or Litecoin crashes, and I mean crashes hard, consider loading the boat. I don't care about how negative the sentiment is. Just do it. It's worth the risk.

Based on the video I posted near the top of this thread, I think Silver could go from $12-14. If it does, I will TOTALLY load the boat.

[EE_]

wow. 240K worth of Bitcoin at today's prices.

my condolences.


when you redeem Bitcoins for FRN's, is there a 'spread' or fee ?

Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
Almost all my wealth is held in Gold/Silver. I am a Gold and Silver person. I have my doubts, and I am a bit bitter I bought a lot at higher prices. I'm actually more bitter I sold around 400 Bitcoins at around $4-16 dollars.


OMG, $300,000! That hurts

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

Must every thread turn into a bitcoin thread?

[Shami-Amourae]

Must every thread turn into a bitcoin thread?

It's having a crazy event now. It's like when Silver hit $50 and there was hysteria everywhere. That's going on with Bitcoin now. So it's all people are thinking about.

[mick silver]

siver still 50 , dont let them tell you it not . this is what they want . as far as bitcoin i will buy silver an gold with what i have letf over at the end of every month , there can be only one true money , all the others are just paper are something on a computer . i am hoping silver go below 20 i want two rolls of silver eagles

[Libertarian_Guard]

Currently silver spot is $20.59, trending lower. What do you think, will we see sub $20 silver again?

No way Ag drops below $20 again.

Bet on it!

[Dogman]

No way Ag drops below $20 again.

Bet on it!

Zing

;D

[gunDriller]

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/11/22_Money_Supply_Skyrocketing_As_China_Abandons_US_ Dollar_files/shapeimage_22.png

[mick silver]

pick up 40 eagles this morning ............ yahoooooooooooooooo

[mick silver]

dam you and that rocket . now the price will drop more
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/11/22_Money_Supply_Skyrocketing_As_China_Abandons_US_ Dollar_files/shapeimage_22.pngtoo mars i say

[mamboni]

I think silver could hit $16 beyond we have lift off.

[Sparky]

Was thinking about the sub-$20 this weekend, comparing the situation with the sub-$10 price back in 2008. Most dealers were unwilling to sell at that price, sometimes claiming that they had no stock. If you'll recall, it was nearly impossible to obtain 1-oz or 10-oz silver.

Today I notice that these smaller amounts are still available through the online dealers, though the premiums are up near the 20% range so they are not willing to let go very cheaply. I'm not sure what the availability is at local coin shops; I was unable to get to one this weekend. It will be interesting to see if another "shortage" needs to develop before we see the next sustained leg up in price.

[Sparky]

I think silver could hit $16 beyond we have lift off.

This might just be correct. Per my post above, in 2008 the liftoff didn't begin until we reached such ridiculously low prices that dealers were unwilling to sell physical. $16 is about double the 2008 ridiculous price, so this seems a reasonable target.

[Horn]

Its a rosy bottom for Silver, gold could shed another 50-200.

[mick silver]

beat down going on right now .... http://www.kitconet.com/images/sp_en_6.gif

[Horn]

They are spanking the rosy bottom hard now for January budget and accounting negotiations,

both should jump up after that, while the dollar switch slides.

[gunDriller]

dam you and that rocket . now the price will drop moretoo mars i say

Jupiter !

[mick silver]

http://www.kitconet.com/images/sp_en_6.gif

[gunDriller]

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/oil-sands-dump-0307.jpg

[Neuro]

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/oil-sands-dump-0307.jpg
Is that a bitcoin wallet?

[Horn]

I'd have to back that thing up all the way thru Mexico to load up.

[mick silver]

back up to ponce house first you may be able to load up there

[ximmy]

The expected news was a new round of gold and silver major price suppression, which will likely continue unabated through the release of the U.S. Non-Farm Payrolls Report on Friday, Dec. 6. There are a number of events beginning last week through Dec. 6 which are either standard times when precious metals prices are “suddenly” clobbered or are opportunistic times to manipulate prices during thin trading periods.

The times of pretty consistent price suppressions are going into COMEX gold or silver options expiration dates, where both metals saw their December 2013 contracts expire Monday, Nov. 25. December contract expirations are more important than most other months as the volume is much heavier. Then the First Notice of Delivery for maturing December 2013 gold and silver futures contracts is Wednesday, Nov. 27. Then this coming Thanksgiving weekend is effectively a four- or five-day holiday weekend that normally experiences such thin trading that prices are easier to suppress than usual. Then the jobs report comes out Friday morning next week.

The U.S. government has a strong interest in gold and silver prices being lower when options expire and futures contracts mature. The lower the price drops, the fewer ounces of precious metals that investors will opt to take physical delivery. If there is less demand for physical gold and silver, there will be less of a supply squeeze which could push up prices.

http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=27435

[mick silver]

what the hell does this mean . does not add up ............. If there is less demand for physical gold and silver, there will be less of a supply squeeze which could push up prices.

[mick silver]

http://www.kitconet.com/images/sp_en_6.gif

[gunDriller]

might need a bigger truck

http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/03/M26pullingrocket_700.jpg

[mick silver]

yep i got some more silver an i knew this was going to happen , it never fails http://www.kitconet.com/images/sp_en_6.gif

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

5764

[Neuro]

I think we are going to see the bottom falling out soon...

[Sparky]

There still seems to be plenty of 1-oz availability online. This was not the case at the 2008 price bottom.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

The 2008 bottom was less than half the current nominal price alongside a panic in equities. If we get to that price again you'll see the same sold out signs as before.

[Shami-Amourae]

If think it could go from $12-15. That will probably be the bottom.

[mamboni]

If think it could go from $12-15. That will probably be the bottom.

Any buy now is a great investment long term. Timing bottom is difficult. Cost averaging into these declining prices is the ticket. If the stocks crash in the next couple of months, the brief down draft on silver price would present a fantastic buying opportunity. But, if there is no crash and silver bottoms at $19 you'll have missed the boat. I want more silver but I'm going to watch it a few more days. If I miss this bottom I'm covered. But more silver for my kids would be nice. Does anyone really believe that silver will be under $20 in five years? If you don't, then you buy it because $19 today will not get you to $20 whether in a savings account or a Treasury. And in the interim, we can see bank failures/bailins and negative interest rates. I consider these real risks, even inevitabilities. The hardest time to buy silver is when it is in a downtrend - this is also the best time to dollar cost average into silver.

[mick silver]

thats why i made a buy a fews days ago , if the price drop more i will buy 20 are 30 more ozs , i cover my bases a few years ago , this is just adding to what i have done

[Neuro]

I think we are going to see the bottom falling out soon...
Having said that I still bought some gold today... ;D