Kentucky Police Chief will have his salary paid in Bitcoin

[vacuum]

"We done a checkup on it, and that's the way he wants paid, and that's the way the city is going to pay him"

http://www.policeone.com/police-administration/articles/6643566-Chief-asks-to-be-paid-in-Bitcoin-city-approves/

[Sparky]

Wouldn't you have to be an idiot to want to be paid in Bitcoins, unless your intention was to immediately convert them to FRNs? You get paid $1200 in Bitcoins, then an hour later they're worth $1050, then the next day $1250, then the next day $900. Even if you wanted to speculate with some of your money, why would you lock your whole salary into it?

[Hillbilly]

I think anyone wanting to be paid in bitcoins is either A) Greedy Dumb-fuck B) Wants to hire a a killer or buy kiddie porn on the dark web.

[midnight rambler]

I think anyone wanting to be paid in bitcoins is either A) Greedy Dumb-fuck B) Wants to hire a a killer or buy kiddie porn on the dark web.

C) All of the above...?

[vacuum]

Wouldn't you have to be an idiot to want to be paid in Bitcoins, unless your intention was to immediately convert them to FRNs? You get paid $1200 in Bitcoins, then an hour later they're worth $1050, then the next day $1250, then the next day $900. Even if you wanted to speculate with some of your money, why would you lock your whole salary into it?

He'll probably be cashing most of it out to pay is regular expenses, and leave the rest of the disposable money in bitcoin. He could have it going to a bitpay account which is normally for merchants, but will give you a direct deposit of the money the next day if you so desire, at a 1% fee, or you can keep a portion in bitcoin and have the rest go to direct deposit. I'm pretty sure that's a lot faster and with less fees than trying to get your money onto an exchange from cash.

A lot of things can be purchased directly with bitcoin though, such as amazon gift cards.

Also note: he can sell bitcoins face-to-face for quite a high premium over spot price, like 20% or something.

[horseshoe3]

Wouldn't you have to be an idiot to want to be paid in Bitcoins, unless your intention was to immediately convert them to FRNs? You get paid $1200 in Bitcoins, then an hour later they're worth $1050, then the next day $1250, then the next day $900. Even if you wanted to speculate with some of your money, why would you lock your whole salary into it?

Couldn't the same thing be said for gold? Sure it fluctuates when measured in USD, but long run, USD is going down and everything else is going up. I'd get paid in either bitcoin or gold and then convert enough to USD for expenses and diversify directly (ie. buy gold with the bitcoin) with the rest until I had my portfolio where I wanted it. Both bitcoin and gold have definite advantages over the banking system and I wouldn't be afraid to deal in either of them.

[vacuum]

I think anyone wanting to be paid in bitcoins is either A) Greedy Dumb-fuck B) Wants to hire a a killer or buy kiddie porn on the dark web.

Right now it is speculation. But here are legitimate reasons you'd want to be paid in bitcoin:

- No capital controls on your money (eg, new chase policies)
- No 'bail-in' risk of a bank holding your money
- No capital tax risk of confiscation of a portion of your savings account
- No NSA tracking of where you spend your money, ie, privacy
- No confiscation of your bank account by the IRS for any number of reasons, such as not reporting moving around 8 or 9k at a time
- No big safe at home with the potential for home invasion, fire, or government confiscation
- No bank holidays or reliance on a fragile financial system
- No solid public record of your private income and assets

[drafter]

I think anyone wanting to be paid in bitcoins is either A) Greedy Dumb-fuck B) Wants to hire a a killer or buy kiddie porn on the dark web.

This seems to be the kneejerk reaction to anyone wanting to opt out of the US federal banking system. You guys want a return to "honest money" in the form of gold and silver, but short of that you would rather see us all saddled by the FRN banking cartel than find a novel way outside of gold and silver to escape the system. It's like an "all or nothing" attitude from many of you.

In this particular instance the guy could take that salary in bitcoin and immediately turn it around into gold and silver should he choose. Everything is going to fluctuate. Do you really think that handful of FRN's you received last month is going to buy the same amount of groceries today? My bet is that in a few months he'll have increasing opportunites to spend that bitcoin directly on a number of things while you gold/silver/FRN diehards will find yourselves being able to buy less and less.

Bitcoin, BBQ coins whatever, if someone will let me trade these for goods and services without some damn banker getting a cut I don't see the problem. I will always maintain that gold and silver are still the best way to "store" wealth, but we know that using this to purchase goods and services directly is never going to happen again. Time to get over that fantasy.

[7th trump]

Right now it is speculation. But here are legitimate reasons you'd want to be paid in bitcoin:

- No capital controls on your money (eg, new chase policies)
- No 'bail-in' risk of a bank holding your money
- No capital tax risk of confiscation of a portion of your savings account
- No NSA tracking of where you spend your money, ie, privacy
- No confiscation of your bank account by the IRS for any number of reasons, such as not reporting moving around 8 or 9k at a time
- No big safe at home with the potential for home invasion, fire, or government confiscation
- No bank holidays or reliance on a fragile financial system
- No solid public record of your private income and assets

I say bullshit to the last premise.
They will withhold and deduct the required bitcoins for federal income tax purposes because participating in Social Security is "employment" and "employment" requires reporting.
Theres no other way to credit the SS account without a W3 to the SSA.
Watch what happens!!

[Sparky]

I say bullshit to the last premise.
They will withhold and deduct the required bitcoins for federal income tax purposes because participating in Social Security is "employment" and "employment" requires reporting.
Theres no other way to credit the SS account without a W3 to the SSA.
Watch what happens!!

Although vacuum provides a good list of motivations, 7th trump makes an excellent point here.

[vacuum]

I say bullshit to the last premise.
They will withhold and deduct the required bitcoins for federal income tax purposes because participating in Social Security is "employment" and "employment" requires reporting.
Theres no other way to credit the SS account without a W3 to the SSA.
Watch what happens!!

Yeah I agree. The main thing I was thinking is it could act like a Cayman Islands or Swiss bank account, from that point the trail goes cold. You can't do anything about the taxes they take out of your paychecks.

[mamboni]

I think anyone wanting to be paid in bitcoins is either A) Greedy Dumb-fuck B) Wants to hire a a killer or buy kiddie porn on the dark web.

Maybe, but every Bitcoin is traceable to the present and past holders. Bitcoin is not anonymous like physical cash is.

[vacuum]

Maybe, but every Bitcoin is traceable to the present and past holders. Bitcoin is not anonymous like physical cash is.

There are "mixing services" though. The way it works is a bunch of people, like 20 or something, all give the mixing service their bitcoins. So now there is a single bitcoin address with everything in it. Then, for a small fee, that address sends everything to a bunch of new addresses. Only the mixing service knows what output address(es) correspond to which input address(es). I think this might be "illegal" though.

[Ares]

There are "mixing services" though. The way it works is a bunch of people, like 20 or something, all give the mixing service their bitcoins. So now there is a single bitcoin address with everything in it. Then, for a small fee, that address sends everything to a bunch of new addresses. Only the mixing service knows what output address(es) correspond to which input address(es). I think this might be "illegal" though.

Eh, it follows under the "gray area" of legality. Say you buy a box of kleenex with an gyft card you purchased with Bitcoins from Gyft. But before you sent the Bitcoins to Gyft to purchase the card, you sent them through a tumbler service. Was that illegal? All you did was muddy the waters of traceability. Yeah that may look fishy to some, but you didn't want the blockchain to know you bought a gyft card. :)

[mick silver]

just how do my kleenex get to my home , huh

[Horn]

So the city is opening up a special Bitcoin account to pay exchange fees for him while they purchase Bitcoins?

Or does that portion get retracted first in dollars from his salary?

They would have to rule Bitcoin is tender for taxes.

[mick silver]

this tell me who controls bitcoin , i already knew

[Rubberchicken]

He's gonna get fucked five ways til Sunday. Karmas a bitch ain't it?!?

[Son-of-Liberty]

There are "mixing services" though. The way it works is a bunch of people, like 20 or something, all give the mixing service their bitcoins. So now there is a single bitcoin address with everything in it. Then, for a small fee, that address sends everything to a bunch of new addresses. Only the mixing service knows what output address(es) correspond to which input address(es). I think this might be "illegal" though.

There is more then one way to skin that cat.

Deposit BTC to foreign exchange. The funds are pooled. Withdraw to new BTC address funds are now clean. Feds come asking you lost the BTC trading alt currency.

Or if you are even more paranoid. Deposit BTC to Foreign exchange. Exchange for alternate currency. Send alternate currency to another exchange. Convert back to BTC. Now funds are double clean clean.

[Son-of-Liberty]

BTC is not taxable unless you "attach it" to your social security account.

[madfranks]

There is more then one way to skin that cat.

Deposit BTC to foreign exchange. The funds are pooled. Withdraw to new BTC address funds are now clean. Feds come asking you lost the BTC trading alt currency.

Or if you are even more paranoid. Deposit BTC to Foreign exchange. Exchange for alternate currency. Send alternate currency to another exchange. Convert back to BTC. Now funds are double clean clean.

It may sound complicated, but it really is that easy. It's not hard to be anonymous with crypto currencies.

[Rubberchicken]

It may sound complicated, but it really is that easy. It's not hard to be anonymous with crypto currencies.

That's the way they want it... They can track all your cyber-movement- don't be so naive. They want you to believe it's anon, you believe it's anon. Dude it's a trap.

[Horn]

That's the way they want it... They can track all your cyber-movement- don't be so naive. They want you to believe it's anon, you believe it's anon. Dude it's a trap.

The whole anonymously moving large amounts of money around is a bit overblown, imo.

If these things are supposed to be born and used by the regular, joe And the anti to the elite. as for their future in the real world, not sure. Seems to quite a long way to go to compete with hard cash. And with the upcoming economic collapse occurring all that much harder.

[7th trump]

BTC is not taxable unless you "attach it" to your social security account.

True but wrong.
Under the Social Security Act municipal city workers are basically screwed.
A police chief is a city worker.
SS has the "215 agreement" within the Social Security Act that basically says unless a city has there own welfare agreement (much like the federal government has) they are going to be forced into participation of Social Security (signing a W4).
Most government workers by law are required to pay taxes.....this is the 3401(a) "wage" side of chapter 24 even if there was no 215 agreement.
Because this guy wants to be paid in bitcoin doesn't mean there wont be a withholding certificate. The law trumps bitcoin all to hell....but you cant tell these people things they don't want to hear......they wont humble themselves to see the forest through the trees.

They'll impose the income regardless how or what he's paid in.
He can be private and trail less with all the bitcoins he's paid in after they withhold and deduct the taxes the Constitution authorizes.

This is this lawful money bullshit theory you hear another person talk about on this forum. These people believe since the bitcoin doesn't originate from the federal reserve system its not taxable because its not fiat reserve notes (12usc 411).
Their own theory is blown clear out of the water because all US coins are not minted or issued by the reserve banks....they are issued by the US Treasury ("lawful money" by there own definition) and yet if you cash your check and demand all coins instead of notes.....it doesn't magically return the withholdings....and yes they ALL file returns at the end of the year to get back any refund that might be coming their way.
Can you see how idiotic that is to think to be paid in coin all of a sudden your withholdings are magically returned?

[Son-of-Liberty]

I think Bitcoin broke Horns brain.

That is the second causualty here along with Hyper.

His posts are starting to become more and more disconnected and hard to follow. His grammar and sentence structure has degraded compared to posts he made weeks ago and he is spouting non-sense about quarks like he thinks he has it all figured out.

Horn, an economic collapse would encourage the use of alternate currencies and that includes the digital kind.

[Son-of-Liberty]

True but wrong.
Under the Social Security Act municipal city workers are basically screwed.
A police chief is a city worker.
SS has the "215 agreement" within the Social Security Act that basically says unless a city has there own welfare agreement (much like the federal government has) they are going to be forced into participation of Social Security (signing a W4).
Most government workers by law are required to pay taxes.....this is the 3401(a) "wage" side of chapter 24 even if there was no 215 agreement.
Because this guy wants to be paid in bitcoin doesn't mean there wont be a withholding certificate. The law trumps bitcoin all to hell....but you cant tell these people things they don't want to hear......they wont humble themselves to see the forest through the trees.

They'll impose the income regardless how or what he's paid in.
He can be private and trail less with all the bitcoins he's paid in after they withhold and deduct the taxes the Constitution authorizes.

This is this lawful money bullshit theory you hear another person talk about on this forum. These people believe since the bitcoin doesn't originate from the federal reserve system its not taxable because its not fiat reserve notes (12usc 411).
Their own theory is blown clear out of the water because all US coins are not minted or issued by the reserve banks....they are issued by the US Treasury ("lawful money" by there own definition) and yet if you cash your check and demand all coins instead of notes.....it doesn't magically return the withholdings....and yes they ALL file returns at the end of the year to get back any refund that might be coming their way.
Can you see how idiotic that is to think to be paid in coin all of a sudden your withholdings are magically returned?

I agree with you, I didn't mean to infer that the police chief would be exempt. He would attach the Bitcoin he was receiving to his SSN when he gave the city his SSN.

[Ares]

That's the way they want it... They can track all your cyber-movement- don't be so naive. They want you to believe it's anon, you believe it's anon. Dude it's a trap.

:rolleyes:

Yes all these computer experts, developers, and the open source software are all wrong... :rolleyes: The "all powerful government and elite" know and can do any and everything.

Sorry but only the creator has that ability. We are dealing with human beings, not gods.

Yeah okay..... I'm an idiot I should pile back into FRN's. They're "Secure", "private", and "untraceable"... :rolleyes:

[mick silver]

because he wants bitcoins dont make him not have to pay taxes , do you guys ever stop and hear your self

[Ares]

because he wants bitcoins dont make him not have to pay taxes , do you guys ever stop and hear your self

Of course he'll be liable for taxes. He signs a W-4, he's saying he is liable and is voluntarily entering into FICA. It doesn't matter if he was paid in chickens at that point. The IRS would want the drum sticks and wings.

[mick silver]

there one thing i know if i thought it was a winner there nothing would be stopping me to drop every thing i have into this , not just talk , there been so much robbing people of theys coins i would run so fast you would think i was on fire

[Ares]

there one thing i know if i thought it was a winner there nothing would be stopping me to drop every thing i have into this , not just talk , there been so much robbing people of theys coins i would run so fast you would think i was on fire

paper wallets, you take it offline, can't be stolen at that point. Just make sure your public and private key are treated as gold. Store away from fire, water, and anything that may damage it. You lose your paper wallet or it gets damaged you've lost your coin. But at least the risk has been taken away from being online. You are the sole protector and the sole person responsible for the safe keeping at that point.

[Sparky]

I wonder if Wednesday was pay day.

5789

[mick silver]

yep , he just got a hair cut this morning ........ nothing like silver in my hand ...Earlier today, the People's Bank of China warned (http://www.businessinsider.com/peoples-bank-of-china-warns-on-bitcoin-2013-12) that the controversial electronic currency carried risk. It also instructed financial institutions not to trade it."Is this a bubble in Bitcoin?" asked former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan (http://www.businessinsider.com/alan-greenspan-bitcoin-comment-reaction-2013-12) Wednesday on Bloomberg. "Yeah it's a bubble."
"This is worse than the tulip mania," said Nout Wellink, former president of the Dutch Central Bank (http://www.businessinsider.com/dutch-banker-compares-bitcoin-to-tulips-2013-12). "At least then you got a tulip [at the end], now you get nothing."
Bitcoin has bounced back a bit and it's currently straddling the $1,000 level, which means it's down by around 20% from its high.
Here's a look at the chart from Clark Moody (http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/widget/chart/)


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-falls-after-china-warning-2013-12#ixzz2mo5KvFRm

[Horn]

Wonder if they pulled his entire salary for next year's entire payment schedule last week?

[Ares]

I wonder if Wednesday was pay day.

5789

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/1fa2f78b2e.jpg

LOL j/k just thought I'd lighten the mood. :) I still have all of my coins.

Honestly I haven't lost anything, just like gold fluctuates in value depending on the market. So too will any currency. The dollar fluctuates (albet not as wildly) but we are shielded from it being within the continental united states. However our erosion of purchasing power is very real.

[mick silver]

People have to understand one thing, we, and this will apply to any other Exchange at some point, have to follow government and banks rules. Do we like these rules? Not always. Do we enjoy enforcing them? Hell no! Do we have a choice? Not at ALL!

Unless all of you start mining BTC, uses these Bitcoins to pay stuff in Bitcoins and never ever cash out or buy Bitcoins, we will have to follow these rules, coz at ANY GIVEN TIME, if we are not capable to give the proper documentation that a Bank for example need for a deposit or a withdraw they will use this opportunity to shut us down from using their service again. And I am not talking about huge amounts there but if they want to be a pain in the XXX they will and this even for $10.

Banks rules are different from one Bank to another and they totally control us since we NEED them to help you to cash in or out. They are totally closed and will never give you any reasons or details on why a wire is blocked or why they start investigating a certain transfer. And with their Terror list, if you are unfortunate enough to bear the same name as a person in this watch list, hell will fall over us.

At the beginning they did not really care about us, so we could do pretty much everything we wanted, opening an account there, offering such service, but since :
1) We grew and started to handle a lot of money
2) The popularity of Bitcoin and the Risk for them

Banks are scrutinizing our every move.

Now sure you can go to another exchange and we totally understand that, but if tomorrow XYZ Exchange start handling as much as we are handling, they will face the same problems as we do and they will become as "unpopular" as we are.

So at this point there are not many solutions. And our goal is to make sure that we are as CLEAN as possible in the eyes of these people in order to continue to help Bitcoin to move forward. Sometimes we are rather "aggressive" on these aspects and ask more than what an average bank may ask or need clearer documents, but this is in NO WAY to bother you but just to tell Governments and Banks that we are doing things by the books and that we are in no way criminals!

We know that there are many things that need to improve, and we are working on it, unfortunately and since we are working at an international level there are many things that need to be done at the same time which is slowing us down. Things take time and time is something that with Internet and IT Success have radically change in the eyes of many people where things are moving at Light speed, but when it comes to Banks and Government, time is set on another scale that frustrate all of us. The best example I have for you, and I cannot go too much in details, is when we explain to a Government entity what is Bitcoin and what would be the perfect set of rules that we must follow to make sure that we can continue our business in peace. After our lawyer gave them all documentation, met them at several occasions, we asked, when can you give us an answer? They replied : We cannot commit to any time on this matter and it will take as much time as needed to get back to you...

So yes we understand your frustration, yes we are working on improving this Process, Yes we have some solution in mind to help you, but remember that we do not do that to bother you, but we do that in order to protect everyone's assets here and make sure that the service is running smoothly. And more Bitcoin will become popular more things will get complicated. After all if any Government or Banks does not need to make Bitcoin illegal to stop it, they can easily do it by forcing Exchange out of the equation and making impossible for people to cash in or cash out.

PS Sorry for this long speech and for the many mistakes it may contain, I wrote this on my way to the office.https://bitcointalk.org/useravatars/avatar_42942.png

[Ponce]

What will fail first? the greenback or bitcoins?

V

[Serpo]

What will fail first? the greenback or bitcoins?

V

greenback

[Horn]

Where's the police chief that wants his in Silver?

You never hear his story.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ydcjWL79w