Fireplace Fu - Need Help with Heatilator, it's smoking me out

[gunDriller]

My fireplace is turning into a "Shaggy Dog" story. (i.e. something that goes ON and ON without solution.)

Sometimes it smokes, that is it emits smoke into the living room.

It looked like the smoke was coming from around the door.

My neighbor cleaned the chimney and moved some bricks around inside the fireplace. This did not fix it - I made a fire and lit it and closed the door. Smoke started coming out around the door and from places I couldn't see ... again.

Normally, this neighbor is "super-handy" - very good at fixing things.

I noticed that the gasket on the door was sort of uneven, I thought that might be part of the problem.

I took the door to the local fireplace shop & paid $60 to have it re-gasketed.

My neighbor came over and moved some bricks more around, well, took 2 firebricks out. I made a fire and lit it and closed the door. Smoke started coming out around the door and from places I couldn't see ... again.


One thing I notice is that when I first open the door, there is a breeze of cold air in my face. Which makes sense, Cold air is more dense than medium warm air.

I am wondering if this is normal with fireplaces, if they smoke out the living room normally, until the chimney is filled with hot air and that air is rising. That is, on a really cold day.

Or maybe I have the fireplace from hell. Or maybe it's the chimney from hell. Or maybe the combination of fireplace and chimney is from hell.

But it ain't working.


Got any fireplace experts here ?

[Dogman]

My fireplace is turning into a "Shaggy Dog" story. (i.e. something that goes ON and ON without solution.)

Sometimes it smokes, that is it emits smoke into the living room.

It looked like the smoke was coming from around the door.

My neighbor cleaned the chimney and moved some bricks around inside the fireplace. This did not fix it - I made a fire and lit it and closed the door. Smoke started coming out around the door and from places I couldn't see ... again.

Normally, this neighbor is "super-handy" - very good at fixing things.

I noticed that the gasket on the door was sort of uneven, I thought that might be part of the problem.

I took the door to the local fireplace shop & paid $60 to have it re-gasketed.

My neighbor came over and moved some bricks more around, well, took 2 firebricks out. I made a fire and lit it and closed the door. Smoke started coming out around the door and from places I couldn't see ... again.


One thing I notice is that when I first open the door, there is a breeze of cold air in my face. Which makes sense, Cold air is more dense than medium warm air.

I am wondering if this is normal with fireplaces, if they smoke out the living room normally, until the chimney is filled with hot air and that air is rising. That is, on a really cold day.

Or maybe I have the fireplace from hell. Or maybe it's the chimney from hell. Or maybe the combination of fireplace and chimney is from hell.

But it ain't working.


Got any fireplace experts here ?



Is it windy outside when your fireplace does this? Outside wind could blow the smoke down your chimney,

Or you do not have enough draw as you said things are cold and need to heat up.

Once things get warm do you still have the problem or only when starting a new fire or refreshing a banked one?

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/chimney-downdraught.html

http://www.fireplacemall.com/Chimney_Caps/Vacu-Stack_Caps_with_Masonry_F/vacu-stack_caps_with_masonry_flue_adaptors.html (http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/chimney-downdraught.html)

[zap]

Or you do not have enough draw. sometimes the spark arrester ( Screen) on my flue gets clogged and it won't draw real good and it will get smoky.

[Libertytree]

You've got a bad draft going on. The simplest/easiest way to fix this is to buy something like this. The Vacu-Stack Chimney Cap solves the two wind related chimney problems -- wind induced downdraft and dynamic wind loading. The streamline flow of the wind around the Vacu-Stack prevents wind from blowing into the chimney -- even when the wind is deflected downward. The Vacu-Stack creates a venturi that causes flue gases to flow up and out of the chimney.

http://www.volko.com/images/vstack2.gif

It can't fix a design flaw but it sounds like your in a windy area.

[gunDriller]

i will make another try at it this PM, right before i go into couch potato mode.

this time i will let it burn, to see if it gets 'smoke momentum' or whatever and starts going up the chimney. and if it smokes, well, i won't have to breathe it. i can just close the bedroom door and hold my breath and inspect it every 5 minutes. maybe when it's really cold that's when it happens.

a few weeks ago i made fires when it was 40 or 50 outside. the fireplace was OK then, i.e. it didn't smoke.

actually today when i started a fire this morning, there was zero wind outdoors. i just noticed cold air blowing at me when i opened the door.


it's no good having a fireplace you can't use when it's really cold !

i don't like smoking myself out. i like to save my lungs for the good stuff :)

[Dogman]

If your fireplace combustion air is drawn from the room it is in, leave a door or sumpthing cracked so there is air flow. If it is in a sealed room, the room can pull a partial vacuum and disrupt/restrict what would be normal air flow for a good chimney draw to get the smoke up it and outside where it belongs.

The air that goes out the chimney must be replaced, if not the stove will not draw air correctly.

Have seen stoves that burn great with fantastic draw, and on a windy day, most of the heat is lost up the chimney and outside if the damper is left wide open. Sorta like fireplace diarrhea.

[Cebu_4_2]

Sure you don't have a partial clog going on? Is the stack far enough above the roofline to get a draw? I had to insulate the pipe through the brick chimney on my wood burner to get a draw. If you are trying to get it going through cold bricks that would possible be a large issue without a good drawing cap like LT suggests. Not sure if you can get a pipe to run the smoke up and out though but that would be my thought. Also you might be losing heat and air from the house and it's pulling from the chimney, try opening a lower window some so it wont pull it through the chimney, make sure all the upper windows, attic vents etc are closed. Try a huge amount of paper to get it hot fast, that might get it kick started.

Edit: Heatilater... fireplace insert? If it has a pipe I have some ideas that I had to do. Seemed to start all of a sudden like yours did. The pipe that was exposed to the cold air out the top would creosote in a couple days. Ended up with a hole the size of a roll of quarters. Ended up putting a larger pipe around the top wrapped with insulation between to keep things hot. Next season I got tube insulation not approved for hot stuff but it was fiberglass and lined the whole pipe. Never had an issue again and only had to clean the pipe once a year vs 3-4 times during the heating season. That was more expensive than wood at the time.

[Neuro]

Maybe there is a fan in the house (kitchen or toilet are common places) drawing air out from the inside creating lower pressure on the inside of the house, and thus a draft in the wrong direction in the chimney?

[Horn]

Right, start and run with window cracked and doors open until good and hot,

then keep adding fuel and air until you "burn in" a new chimney with peak heat.

[mick silver]

is the damper open , is so start a small hot fire with small pieces of wood let it get hot before you open the door . look inside to see if damper is open . do you have your house furnace on if so turn off it will pull smoke into the house , the furnace running will pull air down the flue pipe

[mick silver]

https://www.google.com/search?q=fireplace+damper&client=firefox-a&hs=Zn7&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=hEunUun9BM31oAT0noGwDg&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=742&dpr=1 is there a wood stove in the fireplace

[mick silver]

a good place for parts http://www.northlineexpress.com/wood-stoves/wood-stove-accessories/wood-stove-trivets.html?trk_msg=HJA36BHKEKC473T044JIQCUCIS&trk_contact=T44D0RH6HEKDFR58VNI100A1SS&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fwww.northlineexpress.com%2fw ood-stoves%2fwood-stove-accessories%2fwood-stove-trivets.html&utm_campaign=20131210&utm_content=TRIVET15 the gaskets i get i go to hardware store for under 10 bucks with glue ... also great place to buy from ... http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_heaters-stoves-fireplaces+wood-stoves? if you need to replace this is a great stove lots of heat , i took a peice of steel and made the top bigger so we could use to heat food on , they have some of the best prices of there stove if you can go to there store , they do ship but it high on big stuff

[mick silver]

i use this in my shop it works great , you catch the heat loss up the pipe , great for wood stoves ... Magic Heat™ Reclaimer for Wood, Oil or Coal Stove — 6 in., Model# MH-6-R

[zap]

I use it too, Mick !

[mick silver]

works great dont it zap you use more of the heat that would be lost if you did not have that on the pipe . less wood

[mick silver]

do you have a outside clean out if so make sure it closed up

[zap]

It sure does, between the blower on the wood stove and the one in the flue, it'll blow you right out the house :)

[mick silver]

gun did you get the fireplace working right , if so let us know what was wrong thanks

[gunDriller]

gun did you get the fireplace working right , if so let us know what was wrong thanks

i'm pretty sure that the problem was that some of my fires didn't have enough fire/ hot air to push up the chimney.

they would smoke and the pressure of the cold air was enough to push the smoke out some of the apertures in the fireplace - into the living room.

my 'action item' (the neighbor came over & looked at it) was to grab some wood scraps and make another fire.


but i've smoke myself out enough times now that i admit i'm a little leery.

i've gotten in the habit of starting test fires right before i head out to run errands, or right before going to bed.


last night the electric heat didn't come on as much, so i think it was warmer outside.

[mick silver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h4kFZ0FHj8 . also before open door make sure you have a hot fire it help it to draw so the smoke go up

[Tumbleweed]

I've got a coal and wood burning furnace in my shop. I load it with wood and coal then open the door to the ash pan. I pull the ash pan out a little ways. I've got a weed burner hooked to a twenty pound propane bottle. I light the weed burner and stick it in the pan so the flames go up through the grate to the wood and coal. That starts the wood burning and there's heat going up the chimney right away. Once it's going good I take out the weed burner and turn it off. I never smoke things up that way.

[mick silver]

do you have a grate in your fire place

[gunDriller]

i had a fire today and it worked good.


i think what happened was the combination of very cold air and me building a minimal fire that couldn't deal with the downdraft and just started smoking.

i use enough wood, and it doesn't matter.


today i had a fire, and i used more wood, but it was a lot warmer.

the downdraft on the cold days was enough to blow ashes into the living room.

somebody told me about a faucet type thing you put on the chimney to stop the air.

[gunDriller]

do you have a grate in your fire place

you mean like a grate that you use to set all the wood on ?

i don't have that, it has a flat bottom. i put in rolled up newspaper, then a piece of cardboard, then the wood. and start it with a 1/2 piece of one of those fire starter cubes.

[mick silver]

try a grate you set the wood on it lets it burn a lot hotter , hardware store are farm store , make sure you get the right size so it fit in side the fireplace

[mick silver]

does this place have anything that look like what you have if so click on the one then post it here ...http://www.northlineexpress.com/wood-stoves.html

[mick silver]

http://www.heatilator.com/Browse/Fireplaces/Wood-Fireplaces.aspx#