Recipe talk..........

[Libertytree]

Or ask a Beer Guru (BT) questions about recipe's thread :)

I've already ordered the supplies for my next batch and they're on their way. I'm going to go to the other end of the hop spectrum and use higher alpha acidity hops. Here's my ingredients.

20 gal batch, can be adjusted up or down.

LME malt: 12lbs Pilsner

Hops #1: Columbus, alpha acidity 14-16%. I have 4oz's.
Hops #2: Northern Brewer, alpha acidity 8-10%. I have almost a lb.

Yeast: 90 grams Coopers Brewers yeast

20 cups of sugar.

That's the base recipe. What I'm trying to figure out is my hop boil times, given that these are hops of medium and high acidity types. Can a beer have too much acidity from the hops?

My instinct has me boiling the Columbus hops (4oz's) for 1 hour for bittering and boiling the Northern hops (4oz's) for 20-30 mins for flavor and aroma.

That's my plan but if something is askew I'm all eyes.

[Libertytree]

Shameless bump :)

[mick silver]

i am trying to learn from you guys so please put some links of places you guy order stuff from so i can take a look at cost and stuff i would need if i try this on my own thanks . but for now i am just going to try an learn fron you all . so school away

[Libertytree]

i am trying to learn from you guys so please put some links of places you guy order stuff from so i can take a look at cost and stuff i would need if i try this on my own thanks . but for now i am just going to try an learn fron you all . so school away

I buy a lot of my ingredients from northernbrewers.com, if I'm buying bulk hops it's crosbyhopfarms.com or I buy smaller amounts from northern to save on shipping. I'm still tweaking my recipe and haven't settled on any one thing.

Start a thread about what you want to make, how much do you want to make and things you're not sure about, Q's? We'll help ya dude!

[BrewTech]

Brewing science is neither hit-or-miss, nor a secret.

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/

I'll do you a favor and do the calculations this time based on your recipe (give me a little while - maybe until tomorrow for a coherent response LOL), but I'm going to explain how I got them, and then you are going to understand after that. I promise!

[Cebu_4_2]

I'll do you a favor and do the calculations this time based on your recipe (give me a little while - maybe until tomorrow for a coherent response LOL), but I'm going to explain how I got them, and then you are going to understand after that. I promise!

Common Core method?

[BrewTech]

Common Core method?

Or, Cebu here will be glad to help you out.

[Libertytree]

or, cebu here will be glad to help you out.

roflmmfao!!

[Libertytree]

I'm going over some details about the next batch and have been examining the IBU calculator, plugging in the numbers and studying it. Something though just doesn't add up and I thought maybe BT would take a peak in and tune me up on this quandry.

In the 1st pic you can see that my boil size is 5gals and the batch size is 20gals, with total IBU's at 28.89.

5852

In the 2cnd pic I raised the boil volume to 7gals and the batch size remains the same but the IBU's increased to 45.86.

5853

I think I'm missing something because it would seem the IBU's would decrease when the boil volume is increased.

[BrewTech]

I'm going over some details about the next batch and have been examining the IBU calculator, plugging in the numbers and studying it. Something though just doesn't add up and I thought maybe BT would take a peak in and tune me up on this quandry.

In the 1st pic you can see that my boil size is 5gals and the batch size is 20gals, with total IBU's at 28.89.

5852

In the 2cnd pic I raised the boil volume to 7gals and the batch size remains the same but the IBU's increased to 45.86.

5853

I think I'm missing something because it would seem the IBU's would decrease when the boil volume is increased.

Set boil size to 7 and batch size to 5. The software needs to know the pre-boil volume (amt in kettle at boil start) and post-boil volume (batch size - amount going in to fermenter). You confused it by saying you wanted 20 gallons out of a 7 gallon boil. Technically you could do that, but it thinks you are going to water down 7 gallons to make 20, which means you would have to boil an 1.129 SG wort, apparently.

I'm assuming you're doing four batches to fill your FV?

Interestingly enough, hop utilization increases as kettle volume increases. That's why if you are doing a partial boil (say, 3 gal) to make a 5 gal batch, hops need to be increased to make up for decreased efficiency.

LOL @1.129 SG... 15% ABV Barleywine anyone? :D

[Libertytree]

I fill the fermenter up with 15gals of water and then pour my 5 gals of wort into the fermentor...well was...with the new rig I have more and better options. I'm trying new things that will make me a better brewer an well as understanding it all in the process, esp now that I have the capability. I probably have the Batch Statistics calculator fucked up too! Lemme study this one and I'll be back, damnit...but good thing I reckon.


Interestingly enough, hop utilization increases as kettle volume increases. That's why if you are doing a partial boil (say, 3 gal) to make a 5 gal batch, hops need to be increased to make up for decreased efficiency.

That right there is a gold nugget of info and I can't believe it not spoken about more!

[Libertytree]

BT, I don't think that's right? batch size has to mean the total ferment amount. If you plug those numbers in otherwise it's really crazy lookin. Knowing though that by increasing boil volumes the hops are better utilized now that variable makes a good difference.

This gives me a much better understanding of the term "brew efficiency".

[Libertytree]

Ok, lets look at this one, Batch Stats.

5854

Vs, this one.

5855

This, in correlation to the other calculator has to mean "total batch size". No?

[BrewTech]

Ok, I didn't realize you were diluting a 5 gallon boil to make 20 gallons. That would explain the massive OG, and the large amount of hops you are using.

Now that you have a 15 gallon pot, why not do two 10 gallon full boils to fill the fermenter? You would use less hops, to be sure. There's nothing wrong with high gravity brewing; the brewer I took over for used to do it all the time to make double batches into the larger FV. I, on the other hand, just do a single the first day, oxygenate and pitch the yeast... on the second day make the same beer but leave out the oxygenation step, and run it right into the fermenter. The only things he had to do differently (other than doubling the grain bill) was boil the second batch of water to sterilize and de-aerate it, and increase the hops by 30% in the high gravity batch to make up for lost isomerization efficiency. Of course, he had the ability to run the second batch of boiled water through the heat exchanger to cool it to fermentation temp... you can't really do that.

In order to minimize contamination risk I would do two batches to fill that fermenter. Takes more time, but you will have better beer.

One thing I didn't consider before now... how are you going to cool a volume of wort like that quick enough?

If you have access to copper tubing (and a few other simple hardware store items), you could make yourself a wort chiller (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-wort-chiller-for-homebrewing/) easily enough. I would highly recommend doing that.

[BrewTech]

BT, I don't think that's right? batch size has to mean the total ferment amount. If you plug those numbers in otherwise it's really crazy lookin. Knowing though that by increasing boil volumes the hops are better utilized now that variable makes a good difference.

This gives me a much better understanding of the term "brew efficiency".

More accurately, the higher the gravity of the wort being boiled, the lower the hop efficiency. If you were to boil a full five gallons of 1.040 wort rather than three gallons of 1.060 (or whatever the number would be) wort to dilute to 5 gallons of 1.040 wort, the same amount of hops would give more IBU's in the 5 gallon boil.

I'm not even sure I understand what I just wrote, but I'm confident it's right...

[Libertytree]

One step at a time. For right now the goal is to brew great 20 gal batches the simplest way (cheaply) with what I have and the knowledge that I'm gaining. Yeah, the wort chiller would be cool but for now a metal tub with ice water will have to do(just got the tub too, I used to let the wort cool in the sink for 30 mins)...and ya know what? It don't bother me at all because bare bones brewing is where I started, the improvements I've made just make it cheaper, easier and open up a BIG window of possibilities and experimentation. I really dig the whole rustic type of brewing, they say it can't be done, that the temps are too high, you need this and you need that but I just can't totally buy into it because my results even at this early stage proves that thinking wrong.

My plan is to make my large batches, ie everyday drinking beer and then make other more complex beers in smaller batches.

[Libertytree]

More accurately, the higher the gravity of the wort being boiled, the lower the hop efficiency. If you were to boil a full five gallons of 1.040 wort rather than three gallons of 1.060 (or whatever the number would be) wort to dilute to 5 gallons of 1.040 wort, the same amount of hops would give more IBU's in the 5 gallon boil.

I'm not even sure I understand what I just wrote, but I'm confident it's right...

That's the way I'm seeing it! It seems to defy logic or physics, at least to me, at the moment.

[BrewTech]

That's the way I'm seeing it! It seems to defy logic or physics, at least to me, at the moment.

Sugars interfere with the transformation of alpha acids to iso-alpha acids in the boil. The boil is the most chemically complex stage of beermaking, or so I have been led to believe by smarter people than I...

[BrewTech]

One step at a time. For right now the goal is to brew great 20 gal batches the simplest way (cheaply) with what I have and the knowledge that I'm gaining. Yeah, the wort chiller would be cool but for now a metal tub with ice water will have to do(just got the tub too, I used to let the wort cool in the sink for 30 mins)...and ya know what? It don't bother me at all because bare bones brewing is where I started, the improvements I've made just make it cheaper, easier and open up a BIG window of possibilities and experimentation. I really dig the whole rustic type of brewing, they say it can't be done, that the temps are too high, you need this and you need that but I just can't totally buy into it because my results even at this early stage proves that thinking wrong.

My plan is to make my large batches, ie everyday drinking beer and then make other more complex beers in smaller batches.

Tell the ancient Sumerians and Egyptians about all the high tech shit they needed to make beer... LOL. Apparently all they needed was half-baked loaves of barley soaked in water, forced through the bottom of a woven reed basket, then put in a jar that was bigger than a man, and sealed with a plug of Nile mud!

You're doing fine, bro... I'm just making suggestions. Hell, I don't even have a homebrew system anymore!

[Libertytree]

I just want and need to fully understand it. If I can grasp and utilize what I know with the equipment I have and make good brew or maybe even great brew it's a success! It's a boatload fun learnin man :)

Ok, here's a question for ya...Given what you know about my set up, ingredients, method and environment how would you build this batch?