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View Full Version : Wall Street Months Away from Jumping into Bitcoins



madfranks
12th December 2013, 09:07 AM
Big news - if you think the ride up is over, it hasn't even started! $1000 BTC may seem cheap a year from now.

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/230346

SecondMarket CEO: Wall Street Will Put 'Hundreds of Millions' Into Bitcoin (http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/230346)

Wall Street is getting ready to dive into Bitcoin, pouring vast amounts of institutional and investor money into the digital currency that has been labeled a "bubble" by former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan and which not long ago was seen as the sole preserve of crypto-geeks, monetary-theory wonks and anti-government types.

So says Barry Silbert, founder and chief executive of SecondMarket, the online platform that allows its users to trade private company stocks. "We're three to six months away from Wall Street dollars moving into Bitcoin in a big way," he says.

Silbert should know: Earlier this fall, he launched the Bitcoin Investment Trust, the first investment vehicle allowing institutional investors to put money into the Bitcoin market while avoiding the hassle of personally holding the currency. The trust is open only to accredited investors, and the minimum investment is $25,000.

Speaking on Tuesday night at a private dinner for Bitcoin cognoscenti in New York, Silbert said he was astonished by the BIT's performance. "We launched six weeks ago and we're up to $70 million. That blows my mind. We were hoping to get to $10 million by the end of the year."

The value of the BIT derives entirely from the price of Bitcoin; it has benefited in recent weeks as Bitcoin soared north of $1,200. Because of a recent dip, the net assets of the trust now stand at about $63 million, which means it is holding that dollar value in bitcoins.

Silbert says he meets frequently with hedge fund workers, traders at large financial institutions and others who want to gain a better understanding of digital currencies and figure out how to capitalize on them. He reckons that Wall Street will enter the Bitcoin market in roughly three waves. The first is already beginning, and it's taking the form of IRA money. Customers with self-directed IRAs at Fidelity, Pensco Trust Company, The Entrust Group and Millenium Trust Company are now able to invest some of their money in Bitcoin via the BIT. Silbert expects most other IRAs to approve the BIT as an investment vehicle before the second quarter of next year, in response to growing interest from their customers.

Also in this first wave will be clients of the wealth-management arms of Wall Street banks. Silbert says the BIT is in conversations with "several major banks" and he expects the trust to be an approved product on their wealth-management platforms within the first half of 2014.

The second wave will be hedge funds and other institutional investors. "The principals that work at all those firms are starting to invest personally in the BIT," Silbert says. Anecdotally, he adds, it's clear they are investing in the Bitcoin market through other platforms as well. With traders, portfolio managers and executives all gaining interest, it appears to be only a matter of time before their firms follow suit and take a position in the digital currency.

The third wave will be Wall Street banks themselves, motivated purely by profit, says Silbert. "These banks already have large teams trading dollars and euros and yen and gold. Ultimately, Bitcoin is no different than those" as far as forex and commodities traders are concerned, he says. And indeed, currency strategists at Bank of America issued a note to clients last Thursday talking up Bitcoin's potential and analyzing its fair market value.

While most institutional investors are keeping mum on Bitcoin for the time being, the head of one firm has been outspoken about his faith in the cryptocurrency. Michael Novogratz, the co-chief investment officer of macro funds at Fortress, plumped for Bitcoin at a conference held in New York on Oct. 24. He recommended that investors "put a little money in Bitcoin," saying its value would appreciate significantly over the next few years.

At the time, the price of a single bitcoin was less than $200 on most exchanges. "I have a nice little Bitcoin position," Novogratz said at the conference. "Enough that I'm smiling that it doubled." One can imagine how that smile must have widened in the weeks since.

But it's hard to say where the price will be a month or six months from now. Although right now Silbert is happy to see Bitcoin performing above his expectations, in the near term "the price volatility is only going to get worse," he says. "We haven't seen anything yet."

He added, "Once Wall Street starts putting money into Bitcoin -- we're talking about hundreds of millions, billions of dollars moving in -- it's going to have a pretty dramatic effect on the price."

madfranks
12th December 2013, 09:08 AM
Here's the trust which has already netted $70 million in investor money:

http://www.bitcointrust.co/

EE_
12th December 2013, 09:57 AM
Is this what you guys had in mind when you got into bitcoin?
I thought it was for the freedom from regulation and anonymity?...or was it only for the rising price all along?
I don't like bitcoin, but I do likes rising prices!

Sounds like bitcoin will soon be regulated and will no longer be anonymous. So much for all that.

I always knew the bankers like the idea. With a little luck in a couple years the government can call in all US currency.
Think of the possibilities once paper dollar is dead.

madfranks
12th December 2013, 10:02 AM
Is this what you guys had in mind when you got into bitcoin?

Not at all. In the last year it has morphed into something totally different. From its inception to about a year ago, bitcoins were marketed, bought/sold, and used as a form of money, to buy/sell things online. That has totally changed now. The majority of bitcoin holders are now "investors", buying an "asset" in order to cash out more FRN than they started with. So it's a different beast now. Back in March/April of this year, I used bitcoins for money, buying things online and liking how it worked. I haven't bought anything with my bitcoins now for months, because now it's stupid to when the price is rising so fast. That's why I believe anyone holding them needs to be aware that there is going to be a time to cash out because this digital tulip mania will collapse eventually.

EE_
12th December 2013, 10:17 AM
Not at all. In the last year it has morphed into something totally different. From its inception to about a year ago, bitcoins were marketed, bought/sold, and used as a form of money, to buy/sell things online. That has totally changed now. The majority of bitcoin holders are now "investors", buying an "asset" in order to cash out more FRN than they started with. So it's a different beast now. Back in March/April of this year, I used bitcoins for money, buying things online and liking how it worked. I haven't bought anything with my bitcoins now for months, because now it's stupid to when the price is rising so fast. That's why I believe anyone holding them needs to be aware that there is going to be a time to cash out because this digital tulip mania will collapse eventually.

It may not collapse... This "beast" as you so appropriately called it, may just be the transition into the global currency and the reset of the dollar. You better hope you have your mortgage paid off before the reset, because it will also be reset.
Oh, you might want to dump your gold before the reset too...because the only way you'll get rid of it without the hefty taxes, is by bartering it away at a very low price.
The NWO-coin is going to crush the majority of the population.

The word anonymous will have to be removed from the dictionary

Note* The guys they're speaking to in the article Barry Silbert, Michael Novogratz and the rest of their Jesus hatin' baby raper friends. Anything unusual here?

Son-of-Liberty
12th December 2013, 11:16 AM
I also agree that there will be a time to cash out but we aren't there yet.

It is important to keep an eye out for potential regulation or co-opting of BTC.

This trust fund just makes BTC investing easier for those not tech savvy enough to do it on their own. Things like this aren't really a threat to BTC by themselves.

Something like the greenlist that has been bantered around would be though so it is important to stay vigilant.

Ares
12th December 2013, 02:30 PM
Is this what you guys had in mind when you got into bitcoin?

Not at all. Like Mad Franks said, if Wall Street is going to be jumping in, it could easily go up to 1million FRN's per coin within a couple years. That's WAY TOO FAST, and totally unsustainable and would be a speculative bubble. Exact problems we were hoping to avoid by adopting Bitcoin because they've ruined everything else because of greed.

Now for regulation, and control. They'll still have problems with that due to the peer to peer nature of it. You would have to have all countries agree on the same standards. We still don't have that with regular trade, why there are so many complaints with U.S. and China at the WTO going back and forth, so to have broad regulations and control over Bitcoin just isn't feasible with our current political climate.

But that doesn't mean it can't crash and burn because Wall Street jumps in, pumps and dumps the price like they do with everything else so they can make a quick buck on.

If it runs up to that price, I'll "cash Out" in silver and gold. This place accepts Bitcoins.
http://www.amagimetals.com/

Interesting times.

madfranks
12th December 2013, 03:09 PM
I've thought a bit more about this, and if this happens, we will see a spike in BTC price anywhere between 10x and 100x it's current levels. If/when this happens, anyone holding BTC will be wise to cash out before the bottom drops out, and trust me, the bottom WILL drop out. The primary reason is that BTC is no longer being used as a currency, but as an asset/investment. This means that people are getting into BTC to "earn" a return (priced in FRN) on their "investment". Once wall street investors max out, the price will stop rising, it will begin to fall, panic will set in, and it will usher in a spectacular crash. No other asset in the history of the world can go up/down as fast as bitcoins. The transition from peak to crash will be minutes, maybe hours long. Within a 24 hour window the BTC price will utterly collapse. In the words of Dr. Gary North, this will be the stuff of PhD dissertations and books for decades to come. Don't think for a second that the big wall street players don't know exactly how this will go down, and they will be first to sell at the peak. So, if you hold BTC, don't let greed blind you to the inevitable fall, and sell at a comfortable price and get out of the path of the avalanche.

Now, the question is, what price is the price to sell? $10,000 per coin? $25,000 per coin? $100,000 per coin?

madfranks
12th December 2013, 03:16 PM
Not at all. Like Mad Franks said, if Wall Street is going to be jumping in, it could easily go up to 1million FRN's per coin within a couple years.

I see it happening faster than that. If Wall Street Jumps in, due to the absolute ease of putting money in, it could be months, not years, before it peaks and crashes devastatingly. $1 million per coin? Possible, but I am really not sure if it'll get that far.

My gut tells me we'll see spectacular gains of 100-125% weekly for a couple months with intermittent dips as the millionaires/billionaires of Wall Street pump it up, then CRASH!!!

EE_
12th December 2013, 04:48 PM
Fidelity Bans IRA Bitcoin Investments Days After Permitting Them
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/12/2013 15:18 -0500

Following what we can only imagine was uproar following our discussion of Fidelity "allowing self-directed IRA holders to 'invest' in Bitcoin," the company has very quickly reversed policy... As MarketWatch notes,

“On an individual basis, we allowed an investor to invest in that Bitcoin Investment Trust,” said Rob Beauregard, director of public relations at Fidelity, in a telephone interview Thursday morning. “We are no longer allowing that.”

The firm is not commenting on why that was allowed, and added "reviews are going on."

Via MarketWatch,

Fidelity Investments is no longer allowing clients to invest in the virtual currency bitcoin through SecondMarket’s Bitcoin Investment Trust, a representative for Fidelity told MarketWatch on Thursday.

On Thursday, a Fidelity spokesman told MarketWatch that such investments are no longer allowed. The spokesman couldn’t confirm when or why the policy was changed.

“On an individual basis, we allowed an investor to invest in that Bitcoin Investment Trust,” said Rob Beauregard, director of public relations at Fidelity, in a telephone interview Thursday morning. “We are no longer allowing that.”

He continued: “We’re not commenting right now on why that was first allowed. There are reviews going on, and we’ll make a decision at a later date. At this time, it is not available on our retail platform.”

SecondMarket maintained Thursday that certain Fidelity clients can invest in bitcoin through the Bitcoin Investment Trust. “It is only accredited investors [who] have IRA accounts that are eligible to invest through Fidelity,” SecondMarket’s Silbert said in an email.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-12/fidelity-bans-ira-bitcoin-investments-days-after-permitting-them

mick silver
12th December 2013, 04:50 PM
the jews own wallstreet , and you keep telling me it raining then piss down my back shhhhhhhhhhh . jp morgan allready own bitcoin

Ares
12th December 2013, 05:35 PM
the jews own wallstreet , and you keep telling me it raining then piss down my back shhhhhhhhhhh . jp morgan allready own bitcoin

jews jews jews every where. They rule everything, always able to account, maneuver adapt at everything that comes their way. If not, they invented it. :rolleyes:

You give them far more credit, and intelligence than I ever would.