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Cebu_4_2
13th December 2013, 07:32 PM
Federal regulators tell Bitcoin mint to shut down

Published time: December 12, 2013 20:46
Get short URL (http://rt.com/usa/caldwell-casascius-bitcoin-mint-157/)

http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/21/7c/50/00/8.si.jpg Bitcoin enthusiast Mike Caldwell puts away his coins at his office in Sandy, Utah, September 17, 2013.(Reuters / Jim Urquhart)

The United States government hasn’t decided on the legality of Bitcoin just yet, but federal regulator have determined that a Utah man must stop mining and selling physical copies of the crypto-currency to online customers.

Mike Caldwell of Sandy, UT has for years been offering a novelty of sorts for sale over the internet. In exchange for a nominal fee, he’ll hand-mint personalized, tangible Bitcoins that are then shipped around the world and used for online transactions. Each coin is protected by several levers of security, including a touch-sensitive hologram, and Caldwell says he’s minted the equivalent of around $82 million dollars’ worth of the items.

Production of his "Casascius" physical Bitcoin has been recently brought to a halt, however, after Caldwell received a letter from the Department of the Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, or FINCEN. He announced (https://www.casascius.com) on his website in late November that he had suspended taking orders “pending resolution of some concerns I have as to regulatory issues,” and now two weeks later he’s opened up and admitted that his Bitcoin business is the latest to be busted by federal regulators.

“They considered my activity to be money transmitting,” he told Wired’s Robert McMillan of the FINCEN letter, and the Treasury insists that such activity adhere to certain regulations.

Caldwell isn’t convinced he’s doing that, though, and isn’t sure what the future holds for the Casascius coin.

The coins are made in Caldwell’s Sandy residents and are crafted from real metal. The 1 BTC item, worth around $863 as of this writing, is minted from solid brass and weighs around an ounce. He had been up until now selling other denominations as well, including the 25 BTC version electroplated with gold.

http://rt.com/files/news/21/7c/50/00/18.jpgBitcoins

“Each Casascius Bitcoin is a collectible coin backed by real Bitcoins embedded inside,” his website still reads. “Each piece has its own Bitcoin address and a redeemable ‘private key’ on the inside, underneath the hologram.” That key is accessed with a unique 8-digit code printed on the outside of each coin

“In order to redeem the BTC kept on the coin, you simply enter the physical coin’s 8-digit code into your Bitcoin client of choice,” Geek.com (http://www.geek.com/news/casascius-gorgeous-physical-bitcoins-that-have-real-value-1550847/)’s James Plafke explained earlier this year. “Considering the value of the Bitcoin is stored on the card embedded within the coin and not upheld by the coin itself, if you remove funds from the coin, your shiny 25 BTC coin won’t be worth 25 BTC anymore.”

Therein lies part of Caldwell’s argument. He told Wired that he doesn’t take any sort of fiat currency, including the US dollar, from Casascius customers, and essentially offers just a practically worthless piece of metal whose value exists only online. His whole transaction process is rather primitive, as well: someone pays him in Bitcoin for the order, and then he mints the coin and ships it through the US Postal Service. And because there’s no bank account linked to his business, there’s no dollars to seize, either.

Caldwell was making around $50 off of each of his coins, but has suspended operations until he figures out how to handle the feds.

“It’s possible,” he told Wired of exiting the Bitcoin business. “I haven’t come to a final conclusion,”
In the meantime, he said he’s spent $5,000 worth of legal fees in just two weeks trying to figure out how not to trample on the toes of the Treasury.

And as far as the other branches of government go, the consensus for now is that buying and selling with Bitcoin isn’t necessarily breaking any laws. The Department of Justice said Bitcoins can be “legal means of exchange” during a Senate committee hearing last month, and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank “does not necessarily have authority to directly supervise or regulate these innovations or the entities that provide them to the market.”

Horn
14th December 2013, 12:44 PM
Needs to make it into a bracelet or charm necklace. Then money transmitting rules could not apply.

As the Bitcoin portion is not money.

The coin portion could be considered as such, but is selling a collectable coin item then. FINCEN should not need to be notified in any event. Any Bitcoin manufacturer or market notifying FINCEN should be considered as compromised and be avoided.

EE_
14th December 2013, 01:06 PM
Makes no sense how the Federal regulators can tell him to stop making these novelty coins. There's no dollar amount on them. What could the Feds do if he told them to take a hike?

Horn
14th December 2013, 01:44 PM
This message has been deleted by Shami-Amourae (http://gold-silver.us/forum/member.php?3522-Shami-Amourae). ReasonI'm being a dick





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgIulNiyoiY

Ares
14th December 2013, 04:21 PM
So you guys still think the Feds created bitcoin?

This guy never took a single FRN for his work and dealt strictly in bitcoin. Technically the FED's have no jurisdiction here, but that doesn't stop them from trying to eliminate a threat.

midnight rambler
14th December 2013, 04:25 PM
Makes no sense how the Federal regulators can tell him to stop making these novelty coins. There's no dollar amount on them. What could the Feds do if he told them to take a hike?

I'm quite sure the lawless, completely out of control thugs would figure out something to harass him with. Who's there to stop 'em??

Ares
14th December 2013, 04:29 PM
I'm quite sure the lawless, completely out of control thugs would figure out something to harass him with. Who's there to stop 'em??

Might equals Right in fantasy federal land.

Horn
14th December 2013, 05:08 PM
So you guys still think the Feds created bitcoin?

This guy never took a single FRN for his work and dealt strictly in bitcoin. Technically the FED's have no jurisdiction here, but that doesn't stop them from trying to eliminate a threat.

Could be he's blurring the lines from what is needed by them with a 100% electronic currency.

Can't have that gain steam, may add intrinsic value to the equation.

mick silver
14th December 2013, 06:15 PM
the gov dont want him playing around with what they have already . they dont like copycats

Ponce
14th December 2013, 06:31 PM
And like I said before from no good paper to no good computer generated bitcoins.....the Feds and the banks are at it again......I'll stick to the physical that I can actually hold can hold.

V

Ares
14th December 2013, 06:44 PM
the gov dont want him playing around with what they have already . they dont like copycats

As Rockefeller said, competition is a sin.

Especially if you could be on the losing side of that competition.

Son-of-Liberty
15th December 2013, 03:22 PM
Well if he never accepted FRN's then he would be right to tell them to piss off.

Hatha Sunahara
15th December 2013, 07:51 PM
As Rockefeller said, competition is a sin.

Especially if you could be on the losing side of that competition.

What Rockefeller said implies that Oligopoly or Monopoly is a virtue. It also implies that the goal of the monopolist is to have everything owned by one business which would not compete with itself.

Monopolies don't care about their customers. The have lousy service, high prices, pay poor wages and buy politicians to look after their interests.

If competition is a sin, then monopolies are hell.


Hatha

madfranks
15th December 2013, 08:22 PM
Well if he never accepted FRN's then he would be right to tell them to piss off.

And while he would be totally justified in doing so, they might just send a SWAT team to scare him, kill his pets and threaten his life so he gets the message: don't defy us.