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EE_
15th December 2013, 12:59 PM
Bitcoin under attack as Norway introduces new tax
December 13, 2013, 11:59am
by Guy Bentley


Bitcoin users have been dealt a blow as Norwegian authorities have announced that they will be placing a tax on the virtual currency.

Hans Christian Holte, director at the Norwegian tax administration said in an interview:

Bitcoin don’t fall under the usual definition of money or currency.

We’ve done some assessments on what’s the right and sound way to handle this in the tax system.

The Norwegian tax authorities will treat Bitcoin as an asset that will consequently be subject to capital gains tax.

There will also be a 25 per cent sales tax applied to businesses. Holte said that he intended to work with other countries to clarify the legal aspects of Bitcoin. He added that Bitcoin was a poor substitute for cash in case of emergencies.

If there’s a crisis or power outage, you need some bills in your wallet in case your credit card doesn’t work - same goes with Bitcoins.

Governments across the world have struggled to respond to the rapid rise of the cryptocurrency. The United States has taken a generally relaxed view of the currency with a Senate committee labelling Bitcoin a "legitimate financial service."

In August, the German federal ministry of finance recognised Bitcoin as "private money" and imposed a 25 per cent capital gains tax.

In July Thailand became the first country to ban Bitcoin after its central bank ruled it was not a currency.

http://www.cityam.com/live-blog

Shami-Amourae
15th December 2013, 01:16 PM
Lets also do a 500% tax on private cash transactions the government cant trace.
:rolleyes:

mick silver
15th December 2013, 02:48 PM
told you so

Ares
16th December 2013, 07:43 AM
told you so

:rolleyes:

You didn't tell us shit, you say that whenever there is "bad news" which is becoming rather humerus considering they have no fucking way of enforcing it.

You keep crying wolf long enough, no one will pay any attention to what you say about a particular subject.

mick silver
16th December 2013, 07:47 AM
I bet you dont have a fucking dime in bitcoin not a fucking dime

Ares
16th December 2013, 07:51 AM
I bet you dont have a fucking dime in bitcoin not a fucking dime

Only thing I've purchased is the mining equipment to "mine" bitcoin. I haven't cashed out, and keep a little bit at a couple of exchanges for speculation.

At least I know what the fuck I'm talking about before I try pulling the "I told you so" bit. :rolleyes:

Horn
16th December 2013, 08:04 AM
Needless to say any on the level businesses that are accepting won't be trying to dodge the tax ball.

Another way to corner a market into a sandwich is to hem European laws around it in singular fashion.

Notional value only items, rise and fall with each notional piece of news.

Ares
16th December 2013, 08:10 AM
Needless to say any on the level businesses that are accepting won't be trying to dodge the tax ball.

Another way to corner a market into a sandwich is to hem European laws around it in singular fashion.

Notional value only items, rise and fall with each notional piece of news.

Very true, and whats most likely going to happen is that you'll have payment processing services like Bitpay, and coinbase to be used as buffers for the volatility.

I have experience purchasing some things with a company that used Bitpay. They give the seller an option, they can accept Bitcoins, or FRN's at the value of the time of sale. Bitpay is then responsible for the profit if BTC goes up, or loss if BTC goes down. The seller doesn't have to worry about the volatility at that point. BUT, it also leaves a transaction record for taxing purposes for the regional government for that seller, and he she or they will be responsible for the tax on that sale.

Now in the U.S. that gets even more confusing as sales tax over the internet is still murky unless you purchase an item on line in the same state as you, you generally don't have to pay for a sales tax if its outside your state.

mick silver
16th December 2013, 08:13 AM
Only thing I've purchased is the mining equipment to "mine" bitcoin. I haven't cashed out, and keep a little bit at a couple of exchanges for speculation.

At least I know what the fuck I'm talking about before I try pulling the "I told you so" bit. :rolleyes: . with that money buy land .

Horn
16th December 2013, 08:19 AM
Very true, and whats most likely going to happen is that you'll have payment processing services like Bitpay, and coinbase to be used as buffers for the volatility.

Satoshi continues to fill unemployment gaps for middlemen everywhere.

Ares
16th December 2013, 08:22 AM
Only thing I've purchased is the mining equipment to "mine" bitcoin. I haven't cashed out, and keep a little bit at a couple of exchanges for speculation.

At least I know what the fuck I'm talking about before I try pulling the "I told you so" bit. :rolleyes: . with that money buy land .

I don't have anywhere near enough to purchase any land unfortunately. I used 0.205 BTC to replace a failed hard drive in my Dell PowerEdge Server.

bitelectronics.com

mick silver
16th December 2013, 08:26 AM
that what i said 30 years ago . but i started then buying land and have never look back .

Horn
16th December 2013, 08:31 AM
I used 0.205 BTC to replace a failed hard drive in my Dell PowerEdge Server.

bitelectronics.com

No doubt the failure partially due to some multi-gigabyte file constantly addendum communicating with the internet...lol

Ain't I a stinker :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFgWW452NIs

Ares
16th December 2013, 08:33 AM
No doubt the failure partially due to some multi-gigabyte file constantly addendum communicating with the internet...lol

Ain't I a stinker :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFgWW452NIs

HA! smartass.... lol

No drive has was degrading for some time. Kept getting unreadable block errors for like 3 months and just decided to replace it. I don't have my BTC wallet on that machine anyway. :)

Ares
16th December 2013, 08:35 AM
that what i said 30 years ago . but i started then buying land and have never look back .

I've been looking at some land, back home as well as here. But I can't buy it in 200, 500 FRN increments and I'd rather not take out a loan. Sold the house when I moved here, and only have 2 years left on my wifes vehicle and we're debt free. Plan on using that period to setup a number of trust and transfer my possessions over to them. Use another trust for land acquisitions. Take the loans out against the trust, not me.

EE_
16th December 2013, 09:05 AM
I've been looking at some land, back home as well as here. But I can't buy it in 200, 500 FRN increments and I'd rather not take out a loan. Sold the house when I moved here, and only have 2 years left on my wifes vehicle and we're debt free. Plan on using that period to setup a number of trust and transfer my possessions over to them. Use another trust for land acquisitions. Take the loans out against the trust, not me.

Are you thinking about leaving NC...or just getting homesick?

I always get a laugh when I meet people that have lived somewhere most of their life and still call the place they grew up as home.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ac9EQevk4YA/UIq71rZNH7I/AAAAAAAAE5M/86qkF4zCFys/s640/HomeHat.jpg

Neuro
16th December 2013, 09:07 AM
I've been looking at some land, back home as well as here. But I can't buy it in 200, 500 FRN increments and I'd rather not take out a loan. Sold the house when I moved here, and only have 2 years left on my wifes vehicle and we're debt free. Plan on using that period to setup a number of trust and transfer my possessions over to them. Use another trust for land acquisitions. Take the loans out against the trust, not me.
Interesting, similar to what Palani did?

Ares
16th December 2013, 09:43 AM
Are you thinking about leaving NC...or just getting homesick?

I always get a laugh when I meet people that have lived somewhere most of their life and still call the place they grew up as home.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ac9EQevk4YA/UIq71rZNH7I/AAAAAAAAE5M/86qkF4zCFys/s640/HomeHat.jpg

Nah, just always refer to back where I'm from as home. :) It's funny though as soon as I move out here I've had job offers left and right from back there. So far the pay hasn't been attractive enough so as of now I'm still here. Don't have any plans of leaving any time toon.

Ares
16th December 2013, 09:44 AM
Interesting, similar to what Palani did?

I'm not sure what Palani did. I just got interested in reading trust law, and have been looking into that more. Seems to be a great way to protect yourself and assets if done correctly. Granted it won't allow you to skirt taxes or anything like that, but it can have other benefits especially if its a foreign trust. Even then it can't be repossessed if its outside the pre-defined period for the trust to even view outside claims.

Horn
17th December 2013, 10:58 PM
Rich Chinese may be starting to believe in their Government shortly.

EE_
18th December 2013, 04:36 AM
Look how many there are to choose from now. I still think the real money is made by the inventor of a coin. If we had a tech guy here that really understood these coins enough to make one, we all could have gotten rich.

1 Bitcoin $ 6,628,552,087
12,140,650 BTC $ 545.981.00 BTC 12,140,650 BTC -22.48 %

2 Litecoin $ 341,544,368
625,562 BTC $ 14.200.026 BTC 24,060,042 LTC -37.89 %

3 Peercoin $ 44,686,211
81,846 BTC $ 2.130.00391 BTC 20,932,395 PPC -34.12 %

4 Namecoin $ 18,549,504
33,975 BTC $ 2.470.00452 BTC 7,516,492 NMC -43.53 %

5 Quark $ 16,177,774
29,631 BTC $ 0.0660.0001202 BTC 246,492,321 QRK -43.04 %

6 ProtoShares $ 11,519,545
21,099 BTC $ 9.900.01813 BTC 1,163,856 PTS -27.88 %

7 Primecoin $ 6,910,456
12,657 BTC $ 1.910.00349 BTC 3,626,641 XPM -30.73 %

8 WorldCoin $ 6,658,401
12,195 BTC $ 0.190.00034 BTC 35,868,588 WDC -46.93 %

9 Megacoin $ 6,054,963
11,090 BTC $ 0.280.00052 BTC 21,327,900 MEC -45.79 %

10 Feathercoin $ 5,676,975
10,398 BTC $ 0.210.00039 BTC 26,660,950 FTC -32.38 %

11 Novacoin $ 5,668,637
10,382 BTC $ 10.830.01984 BTC 523,311 NVC -20.38 %

12 Nxt $ 5,663,403
10,373 BTC $ 0.00571.037e-05 BTC 1,000,000,000 NXT -33.40 %

13 Devcoin $ 3,194,431
5,851 BTC $ 0.000549.9e-07 BTC 5,909,920,050 DVC -42.26 %

14 Zetacoin $ 2,826,024
5,176 BTC $ 0.0183.26e-05 BTC 158,765,213 ZET -47.08 %

15 Infinitecoin $ 2,216,132
4,059 BTC $ 2.5e-054.566e-08 BTC 88,901,321,229 IFC -42.38 %

16 Copperlark $ 2,077,435
3,805 BTC $ 0.390.0007206 BTC 5,280,149 CLR -14.84 %

17 DogeCoin $ 2,072,112
3,795 BTC $ 0.000244.478e-07 BTC 8,476,079,218 DOGE +5.57 %

18 Freicoin $ 1,976,682
3,620 BTC $ 0.0570.000105 BTC 34,480,282 FRC -38.62 %

19 Digitalcoin $ 1,749,446
3,204 BTC $ 0.150.000278 BTC 11,527,671 DGC -50.26 %

20 Ixcoin $ 1,685,003
3,086 BTC $ 0.0980.00018 BTC 17,145,554 IXC -22.23 %

21 Anoncoin $ 1,558,841
2,855 BTC $ 2.640.004829 BTC 591,278 ANC -37.99 %

22 Cryptogenic Bullion $ 1,475,877
2,703 BTC $ 1.600.00293 BTC 922,654 CGB -34.48 %

23 GoldCoin $ 1,341,530
2,457 BTC $ 0.0468.487e-05 BTC 28,951,385 GLD -35.20 %

24 Terracoin $ 1,270,274
2,327 BTC $ 0.270.0005 BTC 4,653,190 TRC -39.43 %

25 BBQCoin $ 933,986
1,711 BTC $ 0.0325.932e-05 BTC 28,837,826 BQC -41.70 %

26 Datacoin $ 678,585
1,243 BTC $ 0.470.0008627 BTC 1,440,604 DTC -23.83 %

27 Sexcoin $ 661,116
1,211 BTC $ 0.0152.66e-05 BTC 45,522,425 SXC -49.59 %

28 Yacoin $ 564,426
1,034 BTC $ 0.0448.023e-05 BTC 12,885,264 YAC -37.19 %

29 Deutsche eMark $ 547,561
1,003 BTC $ 0.230.0004122 BTC 2,433,250 DEM -50.77 %

30 StableCoin $ 505,198
925 BTC $ 0.0580.0001056 BTC 8,759,130 SBC -38.77 %

31 Fastcoin $ 498,055
912 BTC $ 0.0112e-05 BTC 45,611,122 FST -59.51 %

32 Tickets $ 495,076
907 BTC $ 7.5e-061.369e-08 BTC 66,248,691,136 TIX -46.68 %

33 NetCoin $ 407,178
746 BTC $ 0.00234.132e-06 BTC 180,486,906 NET -53.40 %

34 FlorinCoin $ 387,045
709 BTC $ 0.0122.118e-05 BTC 33,473,600 FLO -62.22 %

35 GrandCoin $ 368,490
675 BTC $ 0.00152.679e-06 BTC 251,934,000 GDC -55.26 %

36 Mincoin $ 330,376
605 BTC $ 0.230.000414 BTC 1,461,614 MNC -43.43 %

37 I0Coin $ 328,583
602 BTC $ 0.0163.005e-05 BTC 20,025,780 I0C -54.15 %

38 BetaCoin $ 301,214
552 BTC $ 0.0740.0001357 BTC 4,064,940 BET -36.81 %

39 BitBar $ 247,248
453 BTC $ 28.930.05298 BTC 8,548 BTB -38.54 %

40 TagCoin $ 227,080
416 BTC $ 0.450.000825 BTC 504,134 TAG -38.06 %

41 GlobalCoin $ 210,739
386 BTC $ 0.00841.533e-05 BTC 25,183,700 GLC -61.24 %

42 Philosopher Stones $ 177,067
324 BTC $ 0.120.0002162 BTC 1,500,229 PHS ??

43 CasinoCoin $ 162,495
298 BTC $ 0.035.516e-05 BTC 5,395,520 CSC -27.81 %

44 Luckycoin $ 152,867
280 BTC $ 0.0163e-05 BTC 9,332,896 LKY -51.08 %

45 Franko $ 141,952
260 BTC $ 1.730.003165 BTC 82,145 FRK -42.91 %

46 Phoenixcoin $ 140,875
258 BTC $ 0.023.584e-05 BTC 7,199,300 PXC ??

47 Bytecoin $ 128,218
235 BTC $ 0.0770.0001406 BTC 1,670,741 BTE -42.74 %

48 GameCoin $ 127,847
234 BTC $ 0.00122.194e-06 BTC 106,709,800 GME -36.50 %

49 CraftCoin $ 121,110
222 BTC $ 0.510.0009428 BTC 235,283 CRC -13.95 %

50 Spots $ 118,272
217 BTC $ 0.0376.713e-05 BTC 3,226,746 SPT -39.93 %

51 Argentum $ 103,336
189 BTC $ 0.200.0003622 BTC 522,576 ARG -51.76 %

52 Noirbits $ 100,496
184 BTC $ 0.0539.787e-05 BTC 1,880,720 NRB -48.69 %

53 Junkcoin $ 78,995
145 BTC $ 0.00881.619e-05 BTC 8,934,300 JKC -49.61 %

54 EZCoin $ 61,875
113 BTC $ 0.00529.459e-06 BTC 11,981,150 EZC -60.15 %

55 Mickcoin $ 20,752,471
120 BTC $ 10,000.21 321e-08 BTC 21,842 MKC + 10,000 %

mick silver
18th December 2013, 04:55 AM
EE i will sale you all the mickcoins you want at a fair price ...one mickcoin for 1 oz of your silver . a deal of your life , dont wait get them fresh out of air as i mine them

EE_
18th December 2013, 05:14 AM
EE i will sale you all the mickcoins you want at a fair price ...one mickcoin for 1 oz of your silver . a deal of your life , dont wait get them fresh out of air as i mine them

That's pretty fair. I hear Mickcoins are doing really well in Outer Mongolia and Pago Pago.

Ares
18th December 2013, 06:10 AM
Look how many there are to choose from now. I still think the real money is made by the inventor of a coin. If we had a tech guy here that really understood these coins enough to make one, we all could have gotten rich.

I wish I could code, as I'd try to improve upon the mining algorithm and transaction times and create my own coin. But for it to catch on it can't be pre-mined. That's killed more than a few alternative crypto currencies (Pre-mine - developer mines a shitload of coins before releasing it to the general public to mine).

Bitcoin also has first mover advantage as it was "the first" crypto currency. The others are just riding the coat tails of Bitcoin. The ones that can't be cashed out in fiat are valued in bitcoins. So when BTC goes up or down, they go up or down with it. The problem with alternative crypto currencies is their general ease of creation (at least that's what I've read on the bitcointalk forum from developers who have created their own coins), and huge number of alternatives that don't really add or do anything different. The only one I've seen that does is quarkcoin, which uses 6 layers of encryption making it incredibly hardened against cracking. You may break 1 form of encryption that protects it, but definitely not all of them. But to me it looks like the majority of quarkcoin was premined. That's just speculation on my part on how young it is, and how many have already been mined.

In the end the free market will determine the value, or complete decimation of the crypto currencies, bitcoin included.

EE_
18th December 2013, 06:29 AM
I wish I could code, as I'd try to improve upon the mining algorithm and transaction times and create my own coin. But for it to catch on it can't be pre-mined. That's killed more than a few alternative crypto currencies (Pre-mine - developer mines a shitload of coins before releasing it to the general public to mine).

Bitcoin also has first mover advantage as it was "the first" crypto currency. The others are just riding the coat tails of Bitcoin. The ones that can't be cashed out in fiat are valued in bitcoins. So when BTC goes up or down, they go up or down with it. The problem with alternative crypto currencies is their general ease of creation (at least that's what I've read on the bitcointalk forum from developers who have created their own coins), and huge number of alternatives that don't really add or do anything different. The only one I've seen that does is quarkcoin, which uses 6 layers of encryption making it incredibly hardened against cracking. You may break 1 form of encryption that protects it, but definitely not all of them. But to me it looks like the majority of quarkcoin was premined. That's just speculation on my part on how young it is, and how many have already been mined.

In the end the free market will determine the value, or complete decimation of the crypto currencies, bitcoin included.

You're a tech guy...don't you know anyone that can code?
Who cares if another coin is riding the coat-tails of bitcoin. I think we could get a lot of members here involved.
We hold back a couple million coins each and if they go up even a few cents before they collapse, we'll all get rich.
I'd be glad to help you get rich as long as we're all in on it.

Ares
18th December 2013, 06:58 AM
You're a tech guy...don't you know anyone that can code?
Who cares if another coin is riding the coat-tails of bitcoin. I think we could get a lot of members here involved.
We hold back a couple million coins each and if they go up even a few cents before they collapse, we'll all get rich.
I'd be glad to help you get rich as long as we're all in on it.

Yeah I'm a tech guy, but in the tech sector its usually broken up into 3 different categories. Infrastructure(me) I deal with server setup, installation, configuration, rack configuration and installation. Maintenance, and just general high level server / network support. Development. Developers are the creators of software, they do the coding, and usually lack the skills to setup a server, or do anything with infrastructure. They focus mostly on code. There are the rare few that do understand infrastructure and write code that take advantage of both hardware and software. Networking - These are the guys who setup, install and configure networking equipment. They're generally lumped in with infrastructure but should have their own division as it is a specialized skill set. I had my CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate) a number of years ago, but never pursued it again after it expired (CCNA's expire every 2 years).

With that out of the way, you need all 3 of those qualities in order to devise, and develop a true crypto currency that would actively compete with Bitcoin for market share. Bitcoin incorporates all 3 of those attributes in the information technology sector. The rest are just clones with a different name, different transaction times, and some incorporate different algorithms.

I do know someone who can code, and have went to him with a couple of ideas about setting up a specialized mining pool but he doesn't have the time to devote to it unfortunately. So here lately, I've been taking up the task of teaching myself to code utilizing C++ and C#. But I've still got a number of years of self teaching to go in order to pull something off with any significant value or meaning. Coding a few buggy apps is just milestones, and I've got a number of years to go.

Bitcoin is developed in C++, low level C++ I might add, which means most of it was coded by hand. By the looks of the code, it probably took him or they a good year or 2 of development before release.

Horn
18th December 2013, 07:46 AM
I'd be glad to help you get rich as long as we're all in on it.

This news is killing the Quarkcoin that I couldn't tell when to purchase.

I'm figuring if they truly are finite and electronic they can do things other currencies can't, like go into negative territory.



http://coinmarketcap.com/img/Quarkcoin.png Quark (http://qrk.cc/)
$ 19,610,270
$ 0.08 (http://www.cryptocoincharts.info#jump-qrk-btc)
246,498,641 QRK
-29.07 %

mick silver
18th December 2013, 09:27 AM
the ones behind all coins are learning from guys just like you in the tech world and there being school for free , all i ask could this be the case ? make it for free how to set up
Yeah I'm a tech guy, but in the tech sector its usually broken up into 3 different categories. Infrastructure(me) I deal with server setup, installation, configuration, rack configuration and installation. Maintenance, and just general high level server / network support. Development. Developers are the creators of software, they do the coding, and usually lack the skills to setup a server, or do anything with infrastructure. They focus mostly on code. There are the rare few that do understand infrastructure and write code that take advantage of both hardware and software. Networking - These are the guys who setup, install and configure networking equipment. They're generally lumped in with infrastructure but should have their own division as it is a specialized skill set. I had my CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate) a number of years ago, but never pursued it again after it expired (CCNA's expire every 2 years).

With that out of the way, you need all 3 of those qualities in order to devise, and develop a true crypto currency that would actively compete with Bitcoin for market share. Bitcoin incorporates all 3 of those attributes in the information technology sector. The rest are just clones with a different name, different transaction times, and some incorporate different algorithms.

I do know someone who can code, and have went to him with a couple of ideas about setting up a specialized mining pool but he doesn't have the time to devote to it unfortunately. So here lately, I've been taking up the task of teaching myself to code utilizing C++ and C#. But I've still got a number of years of self teaching to go in order to pull something off with any significant value or meaning. Coding a few buggy apps is just milestones, and I've got a number of years to go.

Bitcoin is developed in C++, low level C++ I might add, which means most of it was coded by hand. By the looks of the code, it probably took him or they a good year or 2 of development before release.

Ares
18th December 2013, 09:57 AM
the ones behind all coins are learning from guys just like you in the tech world and there being school for free , all i ask could this be the case ? make it for free how to set up

Would love too, but I'm still understanding that process myself. Coding is definitely not my cup of tea. Granted it's all logic (to the computer) it's completely foreign in a human understandable language, reasoning in structure and design. It really is like learning a foreign language and each one (there are hundreds if not thousands of different programming languages) operate differently in their use and function. C++ and C# are a general all purpose programming language, then you have something like Python that is also programming as well as a scripting language. Each can have programs or applications built that compliment each other. It's the tying it all together to work that seems to be my biggest hangup.

Horn
18th December 2013, 10:19 AM
Would love too, but I'm still understanding that process myself. Coding is definitely not my cup of tea. Granted it's all logic (to the computer) it's completely foreign in a human understandable language, reasoning in structure and design. It really is like learning a foreign language and each one (there are hundreds if not thousands of different programming languages) operate differently in their use and function. C++ and C# are a general all purpose programming language, then you have something like Python that is also programming as well as a scripting language. Each can have programs or applications built that compliment each other. It's the tying it all together to work that seems to be my biggest hangup.

Don't get too involved, Ares. The novelty into the open source realm seems to have played itself out.

You have to do something different now like sell it as proprietary to Bill Gates, or Apple.

Neuro
19th December 2013, 01:52 AM
I have been pondering this idea lately, with a crypto coin being worth 1 oz of gold or silver. To be able to get one you send in or pay for an ounce of silver/gold. So you have an efficient medium of exchange that is at least worth an ounce and 100% backed!

Horn
19th December 2013, 06:52 AM
I have been pondering this idea lately, with a crypto coin being worth 1 oz of gold or silver. To be able to get one you send in or pay for an ounce of silver/gold. So you have an efficient medium of exchange that is at least worth an ounce and 100% backed!

The Queen is already moving on that... where've you been pawn?

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/09/19/canadian-mint-pushes-ahead-in-murky-world-of-crypto-currency-with-mintchip-project/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-01/uk-royal-mint-working-plans-issue-gold-backed-physical-bitcoins