Walther comments?

[Sparky]

Took a liking to the P99 and P99C this week. Wasn't sure about the idea of having the mag release on the trigger guard. Any thoughts on that? Or anything else with these guns, or Walther in general?

[chad]

make sure you get a real p99 and not a sw99 (sw99 are pure crap). personally, if i were going to buy that type of gun, i'd buy a block 19 instead. mags are going to be waaaaaay cheaper and easier to find for a glock 19 than a p99. then again, i think you have hi-cap mag issues where you are, so maybe that isn't an issue.

[Heimdhal]

Im with Chad on this one. On all points.

On-trigger guard mag releases arent the greatest, but they arent the worst (heel release is the worst). With training and muscle memory you can start doing mag changes about as fast as thumb release.

However, if you're going with a polymer framed, striker fired pistol in that price range, you'd be better served with a Glock 19 and extra mags, or an SW M&P 9 compact. Im not an XD fan at all, but its another option behind the walther at least (and that would be the order I would put those three guns in, Glock, M&P, p99, XD).

[mick silver]

would a ruger not work for you

[Sparky]

New Glocks are not an option in Mass.

I tend to like DA/SA, and I believe the M&P is DA only. My choices here are limited compared to what most of you have available. I'm looking for an intermediate size, i.e. a small full-size or a large compact.

For anyone interested in my restricted options, here is the Massachusetts approved firearms list (http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster05-2013amended.pdf).

[Sparky]

would a ruger not work for you

Which one? See my previous post.

[Glass]

It's tough when the list is limited. Same probs here. There's not even a CZ on that list.

I guess budget is always a consideration.

So I'm gonna ask. Anything in a Sig that could be recommended and afforded on this one?

[mick silver]

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9c/specSheets/3316.html .... this is the one i carry . i dont know if you can but here it is http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/models.html

[mick silver]

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/models.html

[Hitch]

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/models.html

I'm a big fan of ruger as well. We can't get the lcp here in CA, not sure in MA, but I went with the revolvers, the lcr. Liked the first one so much, the 38 special, I bought one in 22 lr. The 22 lr makes a fun little plicking gun, and the 38 special I've learned to trust. With +p ammo packs a punch and is a good self defense round, imo.

[Blink]

New Glocks are not an option in Mass.

I tend to like DA/SA, and I believe the M&P is DA only. My choices here are limited compared to what most of you have available. I'm looking for an intermediate size, i.e. a small full-size or a large compact.

For anyone interested in my restricted options, here is the Massachusetts approved firearms list (http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster05-2013amended.pdf).


Holy crap!!! I get better "choices" up here in Canada. I thought America was the land of the free? First thing I'd do is move to a new state.........

[Sparky]

Holy crap!!! I get better "choices" up here in Canada. I thought America was the land of the free? First thing I'd do is move to a new state.........

Ha, I knew that would be one of the main recommendations. We have a lot of good things here. Choice of firearms isn't one of them.

[milehi]

Im with Chad on this one. On all points.

On-trigger guard mag releases arent the greatest, but they arent the worst (heel release is the worst). With training and muscle memory you can start doing mag changes about as fast as thumb release.

However, if you're going with a polymer framed, striker fired pistol in that price range, you'd be better served with a Glock 19 and extra mags, or an SW M&P 9 compact. Im not an XD fan at all, but its another option behind the walther at least (and that would be the order I would put those three guns in, Glock, M&P, p99, XD).

I bought a Glock last spring and hated the way it felt in my hand. I sold it and bought an XD9. I fell in love and bought another in sub compact. The sub has about 700 rounds through it. The other around 1500 and not a single FFT or FTF from either.

[Glass]

yes its a shame Sparky's list doesn't have Springfield on it. Said it before. I like the XD.

[Heimdhal]

I bought a Glock last spring and hated the way it felt in my hand. I sold it and bought an XD9. I fell in love and bought another in sub compact. The sub has about 700 rounds through it. The other around 1500 and not a single FFT or FTF from either.

Im not saying they are trash guns, just inferior in the same price range for similar models. Glocks and M&P's are far superior in build quality, material quality, longevity of parts, ease of aquisition for parts, after market support and all around robustfullness (is that a word). Like i said, that doesnt mean its bad, it just means for basicaly the same money, theres better.

700 and 1500 rounds is virtually nothing in serious pistol use. My every day carry glock 19 (of my multiple glocks) has close to 10,000 rounds through it in about 4 years and that in fact is very little comparativley speaking. I have other Glocks with even more.


The down side to the XD, other than being over priced for what you get is, are other things, mainly the quality of the materials they are built with. Both their metalurgy and finish are inferior to similar polymer framed striker fired guns and tend to not hold up as well over the years. They have far more parts than are necessary (including additional parts in the undeeded saftey mechanisms) and their design puts stress on these parts and leaves them prone to sheering off, completley jamming the gun up. A lot of competitiors got away from them after a couple years because of these issue.

My personal grievence with them (aside the above) is the uneeded safties and higher bore axis which did not agree with my grip at all. Thats just my own issue, everyone is different.

Theres no denying glocks have a weird grip. Its an equal part getting use to it and equal part holding it the right way. Some people never get used to it. For me now, other guns feel foreign in my hand and the glock feels good, or good enough.


These arent supposition and bias, this is all fact that is easily researched. Glock has hands down the absolute best metalurgy capabilities in the gun world (and perhaps in nearly all manufacturing) and the hands down best polymers in the world. They make more than just guns and they are VERY good at what they do.

If the XD was about $150 cheaper than a glock, it would be just right for a balance of price and quality. Alas, it is not, often times more, and even if it were, it would put it in used glock range, which are still amazing firearms.

[milehi]

I tried to love the Glock, but my hand will never fit comfortably. I was constantly fighting it. The XDs fit like an extension of the body. My brother recently picked up a M&P. Finish is nicer and it fits the hand nice but there were a couple design features I can't think of right now that turned me off. Price was a hundo cheaper than the Glock but after sights and a upgraded striker retaining pin I was in for the same, minus the cost of the Glock upgrades like a ambi mag release. The Sheriff's deputies around here can carry anything from 9mm to .45 and I've seen at least one XD40. Every other since I've started looking has been a Glock. Thanks for your thoughts on the XD Heim.

[Hitch]

The Sheriff's deputies around here can carry anything from 9mm to .45 and I've seen at least one XD40. Every other since I've started looking has been a Glock. Thanks for your thoughts on the XD Heim.

The cops I worked with would either keep the Glock, or upgrade to a .45. Usually a Kimber. We were issued Glock 22's. Most of us had Glock 27's as backup, myself included. Glocks to me bring back strong memories. Good ones, I would trust my life with that gun. I still let mags drop on the ground, at the range and get funny looks.

[milehi]

Speaking of mags, I noticed an immediate loss of drag inserting the XD mags vs. Glock mags. They're more slippery and smooth. I don't know what difference this makes outside the range.

[Hitch]

Speaking of mags, I noticed an immediate loss of drag inserting the XD mags vs. Glock mags. They're more slippery and smooth. I don't know what difference this makes outside the range.

My opinion is more on how much force you can slam a mag into the gun. If the mag drops out when empty, that's all that matters there, but man, we've slammed those mags home hard...when the adrenaline gets going.

[Heimdhal]

Speaking of mags, I noticed an immediate loss of drag inserting the XD mags vs. Glock mags. They're more slippery and smooth. I don't know what difference this makes outside the range.

What generation of Glock did you have? Some of the first generations did not have drop free mags. both the mag well was slightly smallers and the mag itself was slightly thicker. all my older gen mags wont drop free from my new gen guns, which is why I only have 1 or 2 left and dont bother with them.

Of cours its a mute point, im just putting it out there for anyone reading to gain a little more insight. Its pretty much a non issue nowadays since the older gen mags arent really sold unless you are specifically looking for them.


As to gun techniques in general, mags dropping free is more important than mags riding home, obviously unless you CANT get the mag in and seated at all. We should be practicing, as hitcher said, to SLAM that mag home. Not break the gun or anything, but get it up in there with a good amount of purpose and force. its a gross motor movement as opposed to a fine motor skill. going back to hitcher, when the adrenaline is going, thats pretty much all your body wants to do, gross motor movments.

[milehi]

I had a G26 with pinkie mag extentions. Gen 4.