What are the features and benefits of a Republic? Questions about democracies

[Glass]

Trying to think of the best was to pose a question. I want to know more about what a Republic is. I think I grasp the basics on where the sovereign power is supposed to lie in a Republic.

I'm really trying to work out what makes a Republic different from a Democracy. Democracies don't necessarily have a Monarch, but some may. So that is not a differentiating factor IMO.

Can the people be sovereign in a Democracy?

How does voting differ or affect the two? Is it voting on issues Vs voting on personalities or are they the same? Some thing else?

Australia has occasionally discussed becoming a Republic ( I think we actually did without it being announced ) And the State was going to be sovereign (It now claims it is).

So thats what? A fascist republic? I think it will evolve fully into one if allowed. Is there some other description for it?

If this has been discussed, probably has but republic = lots of results.

[Shami-Amourae]

I doubt either are different since bankers/corporations/ZOG basically run things behind the scenes anyways.

The best government would be a benevolent dictatorship run by an AI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBeoreJr4Yc
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. ~Voltaire

[Horn]

My opinion is that Republics can vacillate back and forth into monarchy much easier than a Democracy because of individual right.

Democracy is just self defeatist itself soon enough if left unchecked, who knows if there's ever been a true example of any?

[Glass]

some say that the matters or issues of a Republic are public and that the matters or issues of a Democracy are private.

[palani]

In a republic if you spot an office that is vacant (aka a job that is not being done) you might step into that office and do that job. This might be termed 'abating a nuisance'. For instance if you spot a stray cow or horse and seize it to hold onto until the owner might appear. The same principle applies to any other abandoned property you might discover.

In a republic Bush abandoned his office. Barry happened to be wandering around and discovered this office that was vacant and a job that needed doing. Plus he needed a home for his family and here was a vacant house all ready to move into. Now personally I believe he doesn't have the skills to maintain either the office or the residence but he voluntarily stepped into both and until he chooses to turn them over to someone they are his to hold.

One office that is vacant in virtually every county is that of coroner. Seems that the one that appears to hold this office is the medical examiner but he don't seem to have the political power that a coroner did. Coroner is an office of political power rather than medical experience. Place a public notice and seize the office. The sheriff needs a check on his authority.

[Glass]

One office that is vacant in virtually every county is that of coroner. Seems that the one that appears to hold this office is the medical examiner but he don't seem to have the political power that a coroner did. Coroner is an office of political power rather than medical experience. Place a public notice and seize the office. The sheriff needs a check on his authority.

I've heard it said, and I might be quoting you, that the Coroner is just about the most powerful office there is.

[EE_]

I doubt either are different since bankers/corporations/ZOG basically run things behind the scenes anyways.

The best government would be a benevolent dictatorship run by an AI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBeoreJr4Yc
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. ~Voltaire

Is this your handywork Shami?

If God did not exist, I could kill you with a clear concience. ~Voltaire EE

[Hypertiger]

Everyone has to be the government...meaning the powers have to be delegated further...But handing children matches made in heaven just has them burning everything down hell over and over again

This takes education...so that every member of society knows what is going on...Logic dictates that there are rules to follow that are a guide but LAW can not be broken.

So called claimed to be LAW makers can not make or break LAW...That is where the logic as depicted in star trek fails...Blindly following orders or rules is certain doom...There is no way the fantasy world of star trek can exist except as a fantasy...It will never be a reality or a realized ideal...It is an artists rendering of an impossibility that exists as a figment of imagination in peoples minds where impossibility can be possible since awareness of the Universe does not exist inside the Universe so it is not constrained by LAW.

They can only make and break rules and call rules LAW

But if a rule attempts to break LAW

LAW will break the rule.

LAW does not need a police or military to enforce...Only rules that have been created by master liars for ignorant slaves to follow require enforcement.

Anyone calling themselves LAW makers are liars pretending to play GOD...aware or not.

Rule of LAW is rule of GOD

Rulers of the jungle are governed by LAW of GOD or Truth.

The key problem is how to transition from absolute self indulgent reason or rule of rulers to responsible altruistic logic or rule of LAW or Truth.

You all are believers not knowers.

Autonomous absolute capitalistic drones as opposed to Human beings or autonomous responsible capitalists.

The Universe is a construct of logic not reason.

Logic is the invisible order behind the visible chaos or reason of the Universe...Logic is constant or static...Reason is variable or dynamic

Until people are awakened to logical conclusion or reality they will remain asleep in a never ending reasonable assumption or fantasy.

You all can worship whatever lies you believe to be Truth all you wish...I do not have any obligation to.

You all have zero clue that the USA is finished and collapsing to oblivion...The elected officials are nothing more than pandering puppets that rule puppets that want to be pandered to at this stage.

You all are approaching the logical conclusion of the reasonable assumption

Game over of the game you all are playing with each other that you believe you are winning or can win.

"That whenever any Form of Government (GOD) becomes destructive of these ends (failure to supply the demand for what is wanted), it is the Right of the People (Demons worshiping Satan/False GOD) to alter or to abolish it (GOD), and to institute new Government (GOD)"

GOD = Infinite = Indestructible = Supply of power = Need = Life = Truth = Love = Law = Logic = Positive = Matter = Knowledge = Light = Day = Victory = Winner = 1

Satan = finite = fragile = demand for power = want = death = hate = rule = reason = negative = antimatter = ignorance = dark = night = defeat = loser = 0

There is never a lasting victory over Lies (ignorance/Satan/Reason) while the war against Truth (Knowledge/GOD/Logic) has no exit strategy and always ends in defeat.

You all have been asleep dreaming you are awake for all of recorded history which is composed of lies believed to be Truth written by liars believed to be Truth or GOD.

Opinion is based on a French word the opposite or antonym of which is FACT.

Meaning everyone is entitled to their fictions...reasonable assumptions which are lies believed to be truth...that you eventually fall in love with and cherish.

"The essential claim of sophistry is that the actual logical validity of an argument is irrelevant (if not non-existent); it is only the ruling of the audience which ultimately determines whether a conclusion is considered "true" or not. By appealing to the prejudices and emotions of the judges, one can garner favorable treatment for one's side of the argument and cause a factually false position to be ruled true."--Sophistry A.K.A Democracy or Truth by Popular delusion/consensus

"We must win the war of democracy"--Vladimir Lenin

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."--Vladimir Lenin

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”--Adolf Hitler

“Presidents are selected, not elected.”--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."--Joseph Stalin

"A lie which is finite and fragile is designed to masquerade as Truth and since Truth is infinite and indestructible and never changes must mimic truth by Not changing."--Hypertiger

You all are just game players that were created out of thin air within a game that was already being played designed by the owners of it so they win by default.

You all connect to the Internet seeking support for and to promote your reasonable assumptions which are cherished delusions...

The lies you believe are Truth that you have fallen in love with.

And you will commit suicide fighting to the death to protect what you cherish from harm...That is what your social engineering or the program you have accepted and follow dictates...you all operate no differently here on this message board than any message board anywhere else on the world wide web of lies ruled by the horror of babble on.

You all use lies you believe are Truth to measure lies you believe are Truth to find lies you believe are Truth.

I know Truth...So I can see that all your cherished delusions will eventually shatter....I can shatter them if I need to...and If I choose to create lies you will believe are Truth...I can do that as well.

Why would I create a lie to deceive you with?

To make you feel happy...You all are nothing more than just think/positive ignore negative drones...Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...positive, positive, and the pursuit of positive.

inflation, inflation, and the pursuit of inflation...yes, yes, and the pursuit of yes. victory, victory, and the pursuit of victory...want, want, and the pursuit of want.

just give you what you want and you become a follower...Like feeding animals in the forest.

It is a ludicrously simple operation to play conservatives or violent absolute capitalists against liberals or gradual absolute capitalists and liberals or gradual absolute capitalists against conservatives or violent absolute capitalists for fun an profit.

You all are nothing more than domesticated animals basically.

You can be punished and rewarded.

It is a simple operation to manipulate the conservatives into punishing the liberals and the liberals into punishing the conservatives by controlling of the flows of power to the to opposing sides that are divided and ruled.

But because I employ responsible altruistic logic...I know this is absolutely wrong...While sharing power equally is absolutely right.

But you all employ absolute self indulgent reason and do not know what is wrong or right...Victory or being supplied with what you want is right while defeat or not being supplied with what you want is wrong.

Like animals...House Pets/servants or beasts of burden/slaves.

Like Caesar the Pavlov's dog whisperer.

The leader of the pack.

Which is ultimately what all the leaders of the followers are.

I could easily become a leader...but it is pointless since it is just a pandering to puppets or birds of a feather and I certainly am not going to be a slave.

So I will be a servant...to all...the only other option is to run out into the wilderness and avoid all contact with you all...The key problem with that is the entanglement problem...how to disentangle myself from you all when there is no where left on the planet to escape you all.

[palani]

I've heard it said, and I might be quoting you, that the Coroner is just about the most powerful office there is.
Government is intended to be a system of checks and balances. No office holds ultimate power. The coroner just acts to place a check on the power of the sheriff.

But remember the coroner may also issue death certificates. These tend to cancel out birth certificates and what court can prosecute a dead man?

[Hypertiger]

You are governed by money or a lie you believe is Truth or fake power...The "cheques and balances" of absolute capitalist economics rules your pathetic monkey asses...please try again.

Do not try to claim otherwise since you are not the first or the last that will try to escape from reality by promoting a fantasy that you demand I believe is reality.

"People of privilege (Powerful Absolute capitalists) will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage. (Power)"--John Kenneth Galbraith

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody (All who choose to employ absolute self indulgent reason) gets busy on the proof."--John Kenneth Galbraith

"The modern conservative (violent absolute capitalist) is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Liberals or Gradual absolute capitalists that are starving for power have two options.

Transform into skeletons

Or transform into conservatives.

[Hypertiger]

The Humane society is an example of a benevolent dictatorship...

[Bigjon]

Belief in god is another cop-out, for individuals not willing to govern themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.



A republic is a form of government in which affairs of state are a "public matter" (Latin: res publica), not the private concern of the rulers, in which public offices are consequently appointed or elected rather than privately accommodated (i.e., through inheritance or divine mandate). In modern times, the common definition of a republic is a government which excludes a monarch.[1][2] For example, in the first decade of the 21st century, Nepal was declared a Federal democratic Republic after abolishing its 240-year-old monarchy, by a heavy majority in the Nepalese constituent assembly on 28 May 2008, at Kathmandu, Nepal.[3][4] Currently, 135 of the world's 206 sovereign states use the word "republic" as part of their official names.

Both modern and ancient republics vary widely in their ideology and composition. In classical and medieval times the archetype of all republics was the Roman Republic, which referred to Rome in between the period when it had kings, and the period when it had emperors. The Italian medieval and Renaissance political tradition today referred to as "civic humanism" is sometimes considered to derive directly from Roman republicans such as Sallust and Tacitus. However, Greek-influenced Roman authors, such as Polybius and Cicero, sometimes also used the term as a translation for the Greek politeia which could mean regime generally, but could also be applied to certain specific types of regime which did not exactly correspond to that of the Roman Republic. Republics were not equated with classical democracies such as Athens, but had a democratic aspect.

In modern republics such as France, Russia, the United States, India, and Mexico the executive is legitimized both by a constitution and by popular suffrage. Montesquieu included both democracies, where all the people have a share in rule, and aristocracies or oligarchies, where only some of the people rule, as republican forms of government.[5]

The United States Constitution promised us a Republic, but Governments are better at lying than delivering and we never set up a complete Republic in structure. The Judiciary is still under the thumb of the Executive and has never been the independent body that the third article promised us. The Legislative branch was corrupted long ago, senators were supposed to be elected by their respective state legislative bodies. This would make a big difference and had to be done away with by the banksters.

The people are the fourth branch of a republic and are given oversight of the governments officers through an independent Grand Jury system that has the people in charge and not Lawyers. The 7th article court allows the people to be the final arbiter on whether or not a law is enforced as no trial by jury can be reversed by any court official and the jury can decide on both the law and the guilt. All this has been taken away by lying Jew deceivers.

[Horn]

A more proper Republic imo for the U.S. would not be to have any legislative branch in D.C., only adoptions from the individual states and judicial review. The admin could be increased to do any bill introduction to the states.

The states could then be free to be as monarch or democratic as they like.

[EE_]

Belief in god is another cop-out, for individuals not willing to govern themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

I'm sure glad you have it all figured out, because I sure don't.
Who says you have to take responsibility for your actions?
Who made all these rules anyway and who said we should follow this set of rules?
Why do we exist and for what purpose?
I'd love to hear the firm non-cop-out answers.
Thanks, EE

[iOWNme]

A Republic is a parasictic ruling class with the IMAGINED right to rule. EVERY 'Republic' in the history of man has been nothing more than a front for a parasitic GANG of violent criminals who seek to dominate their fellow man through psuedo religious ceremonies and magical costumes.

The Commie Russians, the Commie Chinese, the Socialist NAZI's............WERE ALL REPUBLICS. They all claimed to protect the rights of individuals and to keep their subjects safe, WHILE THEY STOMPED ON THEM AND STOLE THEIR MONEY.

What 'benefit and features' did those systems have?


Glass - There is NO DIFFERENCE between any forms of 'Government', and never has been. The belief in 'Government' is an HALUCINATION of something that isnt real.

[Bigjon]

I'm sure glad you have it all figured out, because I sure don't.
Who says you have to take responsibility for your actions?
Who made all these rules anyway and who said we should follow this set of rules?
Why do we exist and for what purpose?
I'd love to hear the firm non-cop-out answers.
Thanks, EE

Logic dictates that only I am responsible for my actions.

I suppose you believe some imagined man in the sky is responsible for your actions?

[Bigjon]

A Republic is a parasictic ruling class with the IMAGINED right to rule. EVERY 'Republic' in the history of man has been nothing more than a front for a parasitic GANG of violent criminals who seek to dominate their fellow man through psuedo religious ceremonies and magical costumes.

The Commie Russians, the Commie Chinese, the Socialist NAZI's............WERE ALL REPUBLICS. They all claimed to protect the rights of individuals and to keep their subjects safe, WHILE THEY STOMPED ON THEM AND STOLE THEIR MONEY.

What 'benefit and features' did those systems have?


Glass - There is NO DIFFERENCE between any forms of 'Government', and never has been. The belief in 'Government' is an HALUCINATION of something that isnt real.



It might be a hallucination, but your ideal system of complete anarchy falls apart when some opposing body decides to band together in a corporation and conquer your utopia of individuals all acting for themselves.

You have to have some method of organizing for the common good and the common defense or it will be taken away by force.

[Hypertiger]

it's the benefits of the lie...they provide temporary prosperities due the positive phase of the lie where those being lied to an believe the lie benefit from it.

Like chopping down trees faster than they regrow to power a lie that the trees will never run out.

as long as there are trees to chop down to power the lie masquerading as truth...the fantasy will believed to be reality.

but as the trees run out...when the maximum potential is reached...the fantasy will become harder to supply power to and it will break down into reality.

It is a revolution...You return back to where you started from...

to try again...but in the case of the trees...you have to wait for the forest to grow back.

at the logical conclusion of the reasonable assumption...you have stumps as far as the eye can see and massive piles of skeltons.

When the new world was conquested or first exploited or absolutely capitalized upon...the forests were composed of trees that were centuries and 1000's of years old and were massive...they were all chopped down mostly for firewood...coal was then switched to and then petroleum.

in 2005 the 1991 real estate boom ended...new home construction which was and is the engine of the multiplier effect of Bretton woods was increasing exponentially by 11% per year from 1991 to 2005.

then it collapsed...due to lack of line signers...people willing and able to sustain supply the demand for new home construction...


The supply of resources which are people willing and able to supply the demand...ran out...you all just assumed that the supply of people to exploit for fun and profit would never run out.

It's over...

1991 was where the greatest generation...the baby boomers and generation X were all in a position to be willing and able to sign on the dotted line combined with the resources to sustain them.

2005...the resources ran out and this lead to the reverse of the multiplier effect...the domino effect...which lead to the controlled demolition of Lehmans

It was all a set up including Obama...

they pulled the plug on the real estate boom right when it was collapsing normally due to the seasonal drop in demand...by the time those in the industry realized that the boom was over...they were already deep into the collapse oblivious as to what was really going on.

leading into 2008...banks all over the world were merging like mad...Lehman's was loaded up with massive amounts of bad debt...or sin...and kicked off the cliff...

"The symbol of Baphomet was used by the Knights Templar to represent Satan. Through the ages this symbol has been called by many different names. Among these are: The Goat of Mendes, Sabbatic Goat, The Goat of a Thousand Young, The Black Goat, The Judas Goat, and perhaps most appropriately, The Scapegoat"--The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey, Book of Belial (earth): The Satanic Ritual, pp136

"The scapegoat was a goat that was driven off into the wilderness as part of the ceremonies of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, in Judaism during the times of the Temple in Jerusalem. The rite is described in Leviticus 16. The word also refers, in modern parlance, to one who is blamed for misfortunes, often as a way of distracting attention from the real causes."

"Two very similar-appearing male goats were brought into the courtyard of the Temple in Jerusalem on Yom Kippur as part of the Holy Service of that day. The high priest cast lots for the two goats. One goat was offered as a burnt offering, as was the bull. The second goat was the scapegoat. The high priest placed his hands on the head of the goat and confessed the sins of the people of Israel. The scapegoat was led away and let go in the wilderness according to Leviticus 16:22, although the Talmud adds that it was pushed over a distant cliff."

"In modern Hebrew Azazel is used derogatorily, as in lekh la-Azazel ("go to Azazel"), as in "go to hell"."

"Azazel (Hebrew: עזאזל, Arabic: عزازل Azazil) is an enigmatic name from the Hebrew scriptures, possibly referring to a fallen angel or Satan. The word's first appearances are in Leviticus 16, when in the ritual for Yom Kippur the scapegoat is to be taken to Azazel and cast into the wilderness, but this text by itself is unclear as to the actual identity of Azazel.
The Talmud (Yoma 67b) and later commentators maintain Azazel was the name of the precipitous cliff where the goat met its end."

then the plug was pulled there and then the town criers yell and sell the lie...that people that should not have been lent money were lent money and that was the cause.

but the reason all those people were allowed to sign on the dotted line...were because the supply of people willing and able...had been exhausted...they were just an effect of the cause not the cause of the effect...and all the so called wall street criminal bankers...they are just the chumps that did not get a chair when the music stopped that had been playing from 1991 to 2005.

Bernie Madoff did not collapse in 2000-2002...because real estate did not collapse...so his Ponzi scheme was fine...until 2008 showed up...and then he was cut off and had no chair...and thrown to the wolves.

They did the same with Martha Stewart back in 2002...for insider trading...just a sacrificial lamb.

it's all insider trading going on...

the poor demons in hell are guilty until proven innocent and the rich angels in heaven are innocent until proven guilty...and it is extremely hard to prove angels are guilty....

[Hypertiger]

all your incomes are composed of credit which is debt owed to someone else and ultimately to the banks that created it out of thin air.

it has two components....one is the principle...the amount owed to pay off the debt which is constantly exponentially decaying or returning back into thin air from where it came from...and the interest portion that is constantly exponentially growing.

as long as the exponential growth is not too much and not too little but always greater than previously...constant inflation of the fantasy can be maintained...but if the exponential demand for growth collapses...the exponential decay takes over an the system implodes into reality.

pre 1900...credit booms lasted from 5 to 7 years and were followed by busts of 5 to 7 years....from 1944 to now...this has been the greatest credit boom in the 600 year history of commercial banking credit systems.

A blow off...it's been the roaring 7 decades...there is nothing anyone on Earth regardless of what magical powers you think they have can do to save you all.

you can elect a new captain of the titanic all you wish...its going down regardless...and the current captain has not even called for the abandonment of the ship or said it's sinking...or there would be mass panic and all the people trying to avoid the collapse would just contribute to its rapid acceleration into a collapse.

because there are no life boats and no where on Earth to escape to...except to run out into the wilderness and hide...and that is not really an option.

everyone is too entangled into the system.

The free market is only as free as the owners of it decide it to be....If the markets worked the way you all believe they should according to the lies you read or were told and fell for...you all would have not even been born to cry about what you all are crying about...you wouldn't even exist.

[iOWNme]

It might be a hallucination, but your ideal system of complete anarchy falls apart when some opposing body decides to band together in a corporation and conquer your utopia of individuals all acting for themselves.


Anarchy means NO RULERS. Do you IMAGINE there is a group of men with the moral right to rule you? If not, THEN YOU ARE AN ANARCHIST.

Anarchy is not my 'ideal system', ITS WHAT ALREADY EXISTS.

When you go to the store, do you look to the scribbles of 'politicians' (sometimes called 'Law')to see what products you should buy? When you are walking on the sidewalk and there is another person walking towards you, how do you know which way to go? Do you look to the 'Law' to tell you? I could give you billions of examples of how you live in Anarchy everday....

Anarchy is ALL AROUND YOU, its just to bad you CHOOSE to not see it.

And so becasue i dont IMAGINE a group of men who has the moral right to boss me around and steal my money, means i dont want to organize? How about I get to decide how to organize my time and money? Gee, imagine humanity actually being able to THINK about something.

This is another STATIST mythology that i wouldnt expect from you.

Why do you IMAGINE that a GANG of violent criminals somehow helps 'organize' anything?



You have to have some method of organizing for the common good and the common defense or it will be taken away by force.

So unless i submit to being the SLAVE of a GANG of violent criminals, your saying that a GANG of violent criminals may come boss me around and steal my money?

[Bigjon]

Anarchy means NO RULERS. Do you IMAGINE there is a group of men with the moral right to rule you? If not, THEN YOU ARE AN ANARCHIST.

Anarchy is not my 'ideal system', ITS WHAT ALREADY EXISTS.





So unless i submit to being the SLAVE of a GANG of violent criminals, your saying that a GANG of violent criminals may come boss me around and steal my money?



Dodging the question by asking a question is your answer.

It is the reason men form governments, for the common good.

Ours hasn't done so well as men are easily deceived, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to protect ourselves from ourselves.

[MAGNES]

Trying to think of the best was to pose a question. I want to know more about what a Republic is. I think I grasp the basics on where the sovereign power is supposed to lie in a Republic.

I'm really trying to work out what makes a Republic different from a Democracy. Democracies don't necessarily have a Monarch, but some may. So that is not a differentiating factor IMO.

Can the people be sovereign in a Democracy?

How does voting differ or affect the two? Is it voting on issues Vs voting on personalities or are they the same? Some thing else?

Australia has occasionally discussed becoming a Republic ( I think we actually did without it being announced ) And the State was going to be sovereign (It now claims it is).

So thats what? A fascist republic? I think it will evolve fully into one if allowed. Is there some other description for it?

If this has been discussed, probably has but republic = lots of results.

On these issues, nothing is perfect, black and white, this has been covered extensively
going back to ancient times, by the very creators of Republics and Democratic gov.
You cannot completely separate Republic from Democratic.

You should study Plato and some Classics.

Nobody on this forum has posted more about these issues and related than myself.
I shared my studies with this forum and going back, references, advice, etc.

Plato can be summed up in one word, Justice, Plato concerns himself with, Justice and the Moral State.

The Democratic Mob murders Socrates. Plato starts here and does full circle.

Republican/Democratic structures are put in place by Solon, where Law trumps all,
equally applied to all. The State for the people and by the people, where the people
must be involved. John Kennedy in his Occult speech quotes Solon.

Today in this world we need another Solon to do exactly what Solon did.

I went back to these studies, I have given the history a few times, after seeing trolling
on GIM, the Occult, etc, and some of the violent reactions some like Antonio had on Agora.

Unless someone does these studies, the significance of my post is diminished. I have
been encouraging people for a long time for this reason, even basic study is significant.
You may even laugh when I have stated many times much of this is rooted in Greek Myth.
The Freedom Goddesses, Justice, Freedom, Good Order and Peace. It is an all or non
proposition.

The Founding Fathers were great students of the Classics.
Hence their documents, creations, advice.
" knowledgeable educated populace " " if you can keep it " , etc

Nothing is perfect , you get the government you deserve, the idiots are the apathetic, and destroy society. The Oligarchy and corruption slowly take over. Systems were put in place to stop or slow this down, but the people fail to be organized and involved over time. What is the purpose of a Republic ? Justice for all , life , liberty, and the pursuit of happiness .

A lot of this study is core teachings and benefits greatly in understanding many issues.

These teachings apply in daily life, treating people equally and fairly, have become
Christian belief and teachings, Christian Philosphy, and they apply to all groups including forums.

Freedom is a natural condition of man.

Western Man is unique in these beliefs
and teachings.

Yes I know I am repeating myself, different thread and context.

If Solon or Plato were to show up today, they would freak out.

The Oligarchy and Persian Empire have enslaved the planet.

[iOWNme]

Dodging the question by asking a question is your answer.

I just went back and reread your post. You did not ask me any question....I ALWAYS answer questions, and never dodge anything.



It is the reason men form governments, for the common good.

Ours hasn't done so well as men are easily deceived, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to protect ourselves from ourselves.


If 'Governments' are formed for the 'common good' then why is the very first thing EVERY 'Government' does is pass a 'Law' that says it is illegal to keep what you earn?

Can you answer this?

You do realize that the US CON pretended to give to something called 'Congress' the moral right to:

-Steal Private Property (Sometimes called eminent domain)
-Kidnapp innocent people (sometimes called conscription)
-Plunder wealth (sometimes called taxation)


And yet you sit there and try and call these CRIMINAL ACTS for the 'common good'?

[Glass]

I tried to read Platos works many years ago. I guess for that time I wasn't capable of absorbing all of it. I am pretty sure I've still got the book. Can't access the library just now to check.

[Bigjon]

I just went back and reread your post. You did not ask me any question....I ALWAYS answer questions, and never dodge anything.





If 'Governments' are formed for the 'common good' then why is the very first thing EVERY 'Government' does is pass a 'Law' that says it is illegal to keep what you earn?

Can you answer this?

You do realize that the US CON pretended to give to something called 'Congress' the moral right to:

-Steal Private Property (Sometimes called eminent domain)
-Kidnapp innocent people (sometimes called conscription)
-Plunder wealth (sometimes called taxation)


And yet you sit there and try and call these CRIMINAL ACTS for the 'common good'?


ok, I didn't put it in the form of a QUESTION, I put it in the form of a premise that you are dodging right now.

What are you going to call this organization you allude to?


means i dont want to organize? How about I get to decide how to organize my time and money?

The original constitution was a pretty vague document that didn't spell out much in the way of law. It was an attempt to put in place a means of taxing the people to pay for the debts incurred by the revolutionary war.

How are you going to keep the tyrants from making you a slave without paying for a defense?

[iOWNme]

ok, I didn't put it in the form of a QUESTION, I put it in the form of a premise that you are dodging right now.

What are you going to call this organization you allude to?


What the people who create it call it is of no importance. What matters is do these people have the IMAGINED Right to initiate violence against non violent people? If so, then they arent 'Government' they are a GANG OF CRIMINALS. If this group of people DO NOT have the Right to initiate violence then they arent 'Government' either, they are a group of people nobody listens to. If you, your friend and your wife all pooled your money and hired a security guard to watch your house at night would you then be 'Government'?



The original constitution was a pretty vague document that didn't spell out much in the way of law. It was an attempt to put in place a means of taxing the people to pay for the debts incurred by the revolutionary war.

I just showed you it supposedly created something called 'Congress' and gave to them the moral right to steal, kidnap and murder. And you say it didnt spell out much 'law'? It spelled out all of the 'Law' it needed to ENSLAVE a population to a parastiic ruling class. PLUNDER is wrong, even if you change the name of it to 'taxation'. What you call 'an attempt to put into place a means of taxing the people' is nothing but a EUPHEMISM for STEALING/THEFT/PLUNDER.


WHERE did the power laid out in Article 1, Sec 8 come from? Nobody in this entire forum has ever even dared to try and answer this BLEEDING obvious question, will you give it a try?




How are you going to keep the tyrants from making you a slave without paying for a defense?

Who said i wasnt 'paying' for defense? Again another STATIST mythology. I like how when a group of men THREATENS VIOLENCE in order to STEAL money from innocent people, you call it 'paying' for a service. Give me a fucking break.

I may choose to arm myself to the teeth for defense. I may choose to help arm my neighbors. I may choose to pool my money with others to arm up our whole area. NONE OF THOSE THINGS would make me or my neighbors a 'Government' because we would not have the Right to initiate violence against others in order to fund our protection. Can you understand this simple but fundamental distinction? Because this is all that matters.....

[Bigjon]

What the people who create it call it is of no importance. What matters is do these people have the IMAGINED Right to initiate violence against non violent people? If so, then they arent 'Government' they are a GANG OF CRIMINALS. If this group of people DO NOT have the Right to initiate violence then they arent 'Government' either, they are a group of people nobody listens to. If you, your friend and your wife all pooled your money and hired a security guard to watch your house at night would you then be 'Government'?




I just showed you it supposedly created something called 'Congress' and gave to them the moral right to steal, kidnap and murder. And you say it didnt spell out much 'law'? It spelled out all of the 'Law' it needed to ENSLAVE a population to a parastiic ruling class. PLUNDER is wrong, even if you change the name of it to 'taxation'. What you call 'an attempt to put into place a means of taxing the people' is nothing but a EUPHEMISM for STEALING/THEFT/PLUNDER.


WHERE did the power laid out in Article 1, Sec 8 come from? Nobody in this entire forum has ever even dared to try and answer this BLEEDING obvious question, will you give it a try?





Who said i wasnt 'paying' for defense? Again another STATIST mythology. I like how when a group of men THREATENS VIOLENCE in order to STEAL money from innocent people, you call it 'paying' for a service. Give me a fucking break.

I may choose to arm myself to the teeth for defense. I may choose to help arm my neighbors. I may choose to pool my money with others to arm up our whole area. NONE OF THOSE THINGS would make me or my neighbors a 'Government' because we would not have the Right to initiate violence against others in order to fund our protection. Can you understand this simple but fundamental distinction? Because this is all that matters.....

In a world of noble ideas you win hands down.

When people want your stuff they could care less about your noble ideas and they will come and take your stuff. In a way your argument is like those palani makes if you hold your mouth just right and say the magic words the bullets will go right through you without hurting in the least.

I've got a bridge to sell you.

[palani]

if you hold your mouth just right and say the magic words the bullets will go right through you without hurting in the least.

You can always be hurt by bullets but words are not bullets. By your behavior you will establish whether anyone chooses to revert to bullets.

[Bigjon]

You can always be hurt by bullets but words are not bullets. By your behavior you will establish whether anyone chooses to revert to bullets.

If the bad guys want your stuff words are of little help. I have a gun and that speaks louder than all your words.

[palani]

If the bad guys want your stuff words are of little help. Perhaps they view YOU as the bad guy because you choose to have private property when that is not allowed in the system you are operating in?


I have a gun and that speaks louder than all your words. Guns are ok for self defense in certain situations but are of little value when actions are classed honorable or dishonorable. In a dishonorable action the gun will get you killed faster than many other methods. Consider reverting to these as a suicide by cop action. I would rather invite them in for snacks of brownies laced with ex-lax.

[Glass]

What is the body politic? Is it the people or is it the elected representatives?

It seems to me we don't really need political representation so much as we just need some people to administer things. So what about to posting a list of Chief Admin/Agency CEO positions to be filled. Transport, Defense, Health, Education, Ag, Industry, Ports, what else? Get nominations for positions, post those. People vote on nominations directly.

Could be nationally, and by state. Counties already do this don't they for some things? Still the party affiliation needs to be stamped out. People stand to fill a job not fill a seat in congress. I think congress should be non permanent and only called on critical matters of national importance. Each time it's called the states elect someone to go, that time. No standing members. Honorable position, meaning no remuneration, just expenses. Otherwise business as usual - Administering the county's business.

[iOWNme]

In a world of noble ideas you win hands down.

When people want your stuff they could care less about your noble ideas and they will come and take your stuff. In a way your argument is like those palani makes if you hold your mouth just right and say the magic words the bullets will go right through you without hurting in the least.

I've got a bridge to sell you.

I asked you no less than 4 simple questions.....You dodged them all. Here they are again:

-What matters is do these people have the IMAGINED Right to initiate violence against non violent people?
-If you, your friend and your wife all pooled your money and hired a security guard to watch your house at night would you then be 'Government'?
-WHERE did the power laid out in Article 1, Sec 8 come from?
-NONE OF THOSE THINGS would make me or my neighbors a 'Government' because we would not have the Right to initiate violence against others in order to fund our protection. Can you understand this simple but fundamental distinction?




Your argument is basically this:

If i dont let a group of criminals boss me around and steal my money, there is a chance some other group of criminals may come along and try to boss me around and steal my money.


Does this sound like a sane and rational idea? Call it a Republic, A democracy or a Fascist Dicatatorship. Either way human morality existed BEFORE any of these 'Governments' were IMAGINED into existence. There will always be 'bad/evil' people but putting those same people into positions of power called 'Government' is NEVER going to make this planet a better place.

[palani]

What is the body politic? Is it the people or is it the elected representatives?

Maybe this will help you out.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25iapmr.jpg

There are no people in any county. The body politic consists of the entities shown.

Remember the lawbooks' restriction on yoking an oxen with an ass? You just don't join unequal things. Placing people in the category of legal fictions is like mixing oil and water.

[Glass]

So it's clear it is not comprised of people directly. Wiki has something to say but doesn't really define it.

Free dictionary (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/body+politic) says

BODY POLITIC, government, corporations. When applied to the government this phrase signifies the state.
2. As to the persons who compose the body politic, they take collectively the name, of people, or nation; and individually they are citizens, when considered in relation to their political rights, and subjects as being submitted to the laws of the state.
3. When it refers to corporations, the term body politic means that the members of such corporations shall be considered as an artificial person.

[Bigjon]

I asked you no less than 4 simple questions.....You dodged them all. Here they are again:

-What matters is do these people have the IMAGINED Right to initiate violence against non violent people?
-If you, your friend and your wife all pooled your money and hired a security guard to watch your house at night would you then be 'Government'?
-WHERE did the power laid out in Article 1, Sec 8 come from?
-NONE OF THOSE THINGS would make me or my neighbors a 'Government' because we would not have the Right to initiate violence against others in order to fund our protection.Can you understand this simple but fundamental distinction?




Your argument is basically this:

If i dont let a group of criminals boss me around and steal my money, there is a chance some other group of criminals may come along and try to boss me around and steal my money.


Does this sound like a sane and rational idea? Call it a Republic, A democracy or a Fascist Dicatatorship. Either way human morality existed BEFORE any of these 'Governments' were IMAGINED into existence. There will always be 'bad/evil' people but putting those same people into positions of power called 'Government' is NEVER going to make this planet a better place.

correcto-mundo; I did I dodged them all. I don't have an answer for you. (I wish life were as simple and black and white as you see it) Life is not simple, it is complex, there are many nuances, many shades of gray. When there were less people one could go off on his own and create the life you imagine.

My grandfather bought 5 80 acres peices of land from the railroad. One of those was across the road from his main homestead and abutted a neighbor's farm. That neighbor wanted that land and he put a gun to my grandfathers head and said sell me that land and my grandfather did the wise thing and sold it for the price he paid for it. There wasn't a lot of government to get in your way in 1880's Minnesota.

Do you think this would be an ideal place to live?

I don't like the government we have now and have worked to change it through Libertarian policies. The basic structure we had was ok, but could have been spelled out more thoroughly by a more rigorous Constitution with less loopholes through which many a crook have jumped. The people need lawful bodies like grand juries to be able to bring charges against those crooks. Especially when the crooks are officers or bureaucrats of the government. We had Grand Juries of that sort, but they were taken away by criminals within government.

I want honest money, issued by the government debt free.
No government employee or bureaucrat allowed to vote.
I think property taxes are the fairest way of assessing the gov's needs
No income tax
No votes for non-property owners
No lawyers in gov.
No Jews in education, publishing and finance.

[palani]

So it's clear it is not comprised of people directly. Wiki has something to say but doesn't really define it.

In common law countries people do have a place. It is called 'hundreds'. Law revolves around the concept that people who live close to each other form their own societies. In the U.S. the only state that has remnants of this system is Delaware. What is odd is that Delaware is also the 'go to' state for the formation of corporations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hundreds_of_Delaware

Note the wikipedia article says that the hundreds are nothing more than the township equivalent and are markers of a geographic nature. This is a bit of misdirection on the part of the author of this piece.

Perhaps a wiser solution rather than complaining of the government that exists is to learn the ways to create and control the government that might exist.

[iOWNme]

correcto-mundo; I did I dodged them all. I don't have an answer for you.

I find that quite rude of you. I ALWAYS answer ALL QUESTIONS when im in a discussion with members here. You may not like my answer, but i do not dodge them i face them head on.

Is there a chance you dont want to answer them because you know there are contradictions inside your own head when you think about them? Can you be honest here?



(I wish life were as simple and black and white as you see it) Life is not simple, it is complex, there are many nuances, many shades of gray. When there were less people one could go off on his own and create the life you imagine.

My grandfather bought 5 80 acres peices of land from the railroad. One of those was across the road from his main homestead and abutted a neighbor's farm. That neighbor wanted that land and he put a gun to my grandfathers head and said sell me that land and my grandfather did the wise thing and sold it for the price he paid for it. There wasn't a lot of government to get in your way in 1880's Minnesota.

Do you think this would be an ideal place to live?


What you are doing is called a logical fallacy and 'ad metum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_fear)' or 'an appeal to fear'. This IS NOT a rebut to a point.

Are you asking me if i think REALITY is an ideal place to live? Are you insinuating that 'Government' somehow can protect you from this? ALL STATISTS believe this same lie: 'Government' can alter reality. Second, if there were no 'Government' your grandfather would have likely realized there is nobody to save him, and would have likely killed his neighbor to stay alive, and he would have been in the moral RIGHT for doing so.

The only way they can attempt to 'protect' me is if they STEAL MY MONEY first, squander most of it to their friends, and then hire a guy that i could have hired myself for twice the cost. Is this REALLY your stance? If so, YOU are the one i need to be protected from because it is YOU who are advocating the initiation of violence be used against me, in order that you may feel 'protected'.



I don't like the government we have now and have worked to change it through Libertarian policies. The basic structure we had was ok, but could have been spelled out more thoroughly by a more rigorous Constitution with less loopholes through which many a crook have jumped. The people need lawful bodies like grand juries to be able to bring charges against those crooks. Especially when the crooks are officers or bureaucrats of the government. We had Grand Juries of that sort, but they were taken away by criminals within government.

Oh man. I proved to you that the US CON pretended to give 'Congress' Rights that no mortal men had: Taxing, stealing, murder, kidnapping, etc. And you sit there and tell me it was 'ok'? Do you have any moral principles whatsoever? If you do, please show me how your own moral values coincide with taxing, stealing, murder, kidnapping, etc. Then you say 'less loopholes'? You mean if there were MORE SCRIBBLES on parchment, that would stop the criminals? Are you THIS lost?


I want honest money, issued by the government debt free.

Can you see any CONTRADICTION here?


No government employee or bureaucrat allowed to vote.

There is no such thing as 'Government'.


I think property taxes are the fairest way of assessing the gov's needs

Do you have the moral Right to come to my house and take money from me by force to fund whatever it is you want funded? So how does you 'thinking' something going to alter human morality?


No income tax
No votes for non-property owners
No lawyers in gov.
No Jews in education, publishing and finance.

How about this:

I OWN ME. YOU OWN YOU.

Can we get along with these rules in place?