My Work

[woodman]

5876

I'm trying to load pictures of my work but don't really know how to do it. I will keep trying though. I have been very busy the last few years with my floor work. My sons and I have installed, sanded, gamelined and finished many gym floors, in addition to many stages, aerobics and floors of every kind.58735877

The work is very physical and I am getting a little too old for the every day wear and tear, but somehow I keep on doing it. My boys are just about where they need to be to take over. The worst part is being away from home so much and so far. The travel is hell. I used to get home just about every night until the ecomomy fell apart in '08. Since then the work has been farther away and the pay not as rewarding. It doesn't help that I live in the middle of nowhere.

I will put in more pics as I figure out how to do it.

[Hitch]

You do very nice work.

I wouldn't mind picking your brain actually. I need to refinish the sole of the boat, teak and holly floors, but I've heard the same refinishing on gym floors is the same process.

[midnight rambler]

Nice.

[Ponce]

You will probably "retire" and still do some work in your area when ever you can.....that's good.

V

[Libertytree]

My hat is off to you Woodman, very nice work, you should be proud! Not many folks can do what you do and I'm sorry you're having a rough time of it.

[zap]

Whats that old saying....? Make hay while the sun shines? Beautiful work Mr. Woodman hang in there, do what you can.

[skid]

What finish do you put on gym floors? How do you apply it? Any tricks of the trade? Beautiful work!!

[woodman]

What finish do you put on gym floors? How do you apply it? Any tricks of the trade? Beautiful work!!

I mainly use oil modified polyurethane. There are many different manufacturers but it is usually the architects decision. We try to convince them to go with Polo Plaz oil base because it is our favorite for a number of reasons. I could go into great depth about qualities and site conditions but suffice it to say that we have the least problems with this finish.

Water borne poly is another option and has become more popular in recent years. It is generally easier to use and quicker to dry but has some undesirable characteristics for gym floors. One of the problems is that it gives a slipperier surface than oil base. Oil base also has more give, it is not as hard and therefore actually wears better.


I am having a devil of a time putting pictures in these posts. Can someone give me a primer on how it is done?

[woodman]

You do very nice work.

I wouldn't mind picking your brain actually. I need to refinish the sole of the boat, teak and holly floors, but I've heard the same refinishing on gym floors is the same process.

Thanks, and thanks to all the other replies and commends. I am very proud of what I do as you can probably tell. As far as poly for your boat, I think spar urethane is the same thing I use for gym floors, just another naming convention. Any oil base poly would be good for your boat I think. The stuff they sell at Home Depot is just fine. Make sure to use the oil base instead of water base though. You want to be sure the surface is clean and has been abraded for good adhesion. Also make sure the wood is not moist or the finish will fail.

I have many opened buckets of left over gym finish that I cannot use due to minor issues that would not be a problem for smaller floors or projects. I just cannot risk using them on a gym floor due to the size issue. If something goes wrong it is time consuming and expensive to fix a coat. If you are ever in Michigan Hitcher, give me a holler and I'll load you up.

[Dogman]

I have worked with ton's of steel in my life, making it bend to my will. I have always admired people that can do fine wood work of any kind. Your case you have to deal with traffic, humidity, expansion and contraction of the same.

It is in so many ways an art, working steel can be an art but, wood is basic to our souls because we had it from the beginning of time, and that is in so many ways close to our souls. Showing and enhancing grain is an art. There is a special place in hell for people that want to slap paint on wood with good grain to hide it!

Ultimate and can not be trumped!

Imo!

[woodman]

You will probably "retire" and still do some work in your area when ever you can.....that's good.

V

Hi Ponce. Yes, my plan is to get the boys to the point they don't 'need' me any more and then I am free to just help out. It has been very stressfull running the business and doing the work too. Everyone wants a check every week and I remember how it is living from hand to mouth. Luckily I haven't lived that way for many years but we never know what the future holds. Life is like being on the open sea and rolling with the waves. One minute your'e up and next you're down in the trough waiting for the next big wave.

It would be nice to pick and choose my battles. I've had to take about everything that's come my way but times are getting better. The pay has gotten better lately and I am at the point where I am letting stuff go to others if I don't like the specifics of the job.

[Dogman]

Very good place to be, to pick and chose. Because of the waves it is best to find the middle of the lows and peaks.

[woodman]

5890Here are some pics of a scissor lock system we just finished in Grosse Pointe, Detroit area. It is a very good system to use where moisture is an issue. The sub-floor will move with the maple as it takes on and gives off moisture with the seasons and any slab issues.
5891
5892
5893
5894

[Hypertiger]

Sorry I saw a word that reminded me to look into something for awhile

5885

Long beach California in the good old days...The primary feed stock of the petrochemical industry to manufacture polyurethane

51% of a barrel of crude oil is Gasoline...A portion of the other 49% of the petroleum is sent for further processing at a petrochemical plant to supply the feedstock that eventually becomes polyurethane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurethane)

Production of petroleum in 1938...per day...Top 5

USA............ 2,531,997 61% of world production...No WW2 build up/WW2 without massive supply from the USA.

U.S.S.R.......... 464,983

Venezuela.......361,065

Rumania.........154,235

Iran...............148,457

World total...4,151,890

Automobiles in 1938-12 to 16 miles to the gallon around then...Top 5

USA..................26,382,321

France................2,065,200

United Kingdom...2,043,638

Canada...............1,162,948

Germany...............644,209

List of countries oil production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production)

Automotive production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry)

Branobel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branobel)

Standard oil 1911 (http://www.us-highways.com/sohist1911.htm) and currently (http://www.us-highways.com/sohist1999.htm) along with BP for sloppy seconds in the interior.

Controlled supply and demand (http://ezralevant.com/2013/03/rockefeller-vs-canada-us-billi.html)

[woodman]

58955896589758985899
Various floors. Some we installed and some we merely resanded and did the graphics and finish. Mostly we do new floors but old floors are about 1/4 of our work. We make them look new by resanding and gamelining\artwork and finish.

[Dogman]

That much wood to keep on one plane, and accommodate expansion and contractions must be an art..

[woodman]

Sorry I saw a word that reminded me to look into something for awhile

5885

Long beach California in the good old days...The primary feed stock of the petrochemical industry to manufacture polyurethane

51% of a barrel of crude oil is Gasoline...A portion of the other 49% of the petroleum is sent for further processing at a petrochemical plant to supply the feedstock that eventually becomes polyurethane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurethane)

Production of petroleum in 1938...per day...Top 5

USA............ 2,531,997 61% of world production...No WW2 build up/WW2 without massive supply from the USA.

U.S.S.R.......... 464,983

Venezuela.......361,065

Rumania.........154,235

Iran...............148,457

World total...4,151,890

Automobiles in 1938-12 to 16 miles to the gallon around then...Top 5

USA..................26,382,321

France................2,065,200

United Kingdom...2,043,638

Canada...............1,162,948

Germany...............644,209

List of countries oil production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production)

Automotive production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry)

Branobel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branobel)

Standard oil 1911 (http://www.us-highways.com/sohist1911.htm) and currently (http://www.us-highways.com/sohist1999.htm) along with BP for sloppy seconds in the interior.
They have changed the composition of the finish since the mid 90's. Most of the really good VOC's have been taken out. Replaced with others that supposedly do less damage to the environment and body/mind. It is still nasty stuff. The volative organic compounds used to ensure that the finish would bond together. Now, not so much. We must rely on a mechanical bond more than a chemical one. Interestingly, the stuff won't get you high anymore either. Don't know if this is good or bad. Occasionally I forget to bring my respirator and all I get now is a headache. Maybe the brain cells are merely wiped out.

[woodman]

That much wood to keep on one plane, and accommodate expansion and contractions must be an art..
Calculations. I have charts for expansion that take into account the size of the floor, the moisture content when installed and the region\site. Expansion must be built into every floor. I usually put an extra 1/4 inch per 72". If the wood has taken on plenty of moisture, we love it, because this means the wood when laid will have all the expansion it will need.

[Dogman]

Surely also with a tad of a fug factor, which methinks can also be an art?

[Jewboo]

http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5897&d=1388636489

:o WOW...EXPLAINS YOUR USERNAME WOODMAN!

[horseshoe3]

A local high school put in a new floor a few years ago. They were sawing out the old floor in 4x8 foot sections and giving it away to anyone who would haul it off. I got about a quarter of the floor. Full 1" thick and mostly birdseye maple. I guess it was put in before they realized that birdseye is a premium decorative grain and they thought it was only fit for gym floors.

[woodman]

A local high school put in a new floor a few years ago. They were sawing out the old floor in 4x8 foot sections and giving it away to anyone who would haul it off. I got about a quarter of the floor. Full 1" thick and mostly birdseye maple. I guess it was put in before they realized that birdseye is a premium decorative grain and they thought it was only fit for gym floors.
The old floors were the best as far as the wood is concerned. I have torn out many floors and still have some saved down in the barn. Damn pigs are throwing dirt over it. The birdseye is incredible. You can't get wood like that anymore. Is the wood you saved a nail down or a clip and channel? If clip and channel, all you have to worry about is scraping the edge to remove excess finish, but if a nail down, you will have to run the boards through a table saw with a carbide blade to cut the nails flush for use.

Edit to add: I see you say 4 x 8 foot sections, so must be a floating, nail down system. The sections make the most excellent workbenches on earth. You must frame them with strong perimeter 2 x's because of the tendency to curl in the opposite direction from the board length.

[horseshoe3]

They laid down 2x4s flat on about 24 to 30" centers on 4" square rubber pads. At the end of a 2x4, they just laid another one down beside it and lapped the ends a few inches. They definitely weren't particular about the sub-flooring. Then they nailed down the 1" tongue and groove maple like a regular floor with the nail going through the fillet at the top of the tongue.

I haven't used much of it, but what I've done is pull every nail, trying not to destroy the tong when I do it. For cleaning the finish off, I've run them through the table saw on edge with a carbide blade set to just take of the finish and leave most of the thickness of the board. I'd like to use the planer, but I'm sure it would get gummed up since the finish is about 1/16" thick.

[woodman]

They laid down 2x4s flat on about 24 to 30" centers on 4" square rubber pads. At the end of a 2x4, they just laid another one down beside it and lapped the ends a few inches. They definitely weren't particular about the sub-flooring. Then they nailed down the 1" tongue and groove maple like a regular floor with the nail going through the fillet at the top of the tongue.

I haven't used much of it, but what I've done is pull every nail, trying not to destroy the tong when I do it. For cleaning the finish off, I've run them through the table saw on edge with a carbide blade set to just take of the finish and leave most of the thickness of the board. I'd like to use the planer, but I'm sure it would get gummed up since the finish is about 1/16" thick.

Floating sleeper floor. Last one I tore out, I found a couple silver dimes, 1 silver quarter and a silver Franklin Half..

I install the used wood with the finish still on the surface and sand it off after installation. I take a sharp scraper and remove the finish that has seeped between the boards above the tongue. Doesn't get it all but enough.

[hoarder]

Water borne poly is another option and has become more popular in recent years. It is generally easier to use and quicker to dry but has some undesirable characteristics for gym floors. One of the problems is that it gives a slipperier surface than oil base. Oil base also has more give, it is not as hard and therefore actually wears better.I've noticed the water based sealers for concrete floors are slippery, too.
I much prefer oil based clear satin polyurethanes on my indoor woodworking projects. It doesn't raise the grain like water based does and it's sandable when the time comes to recoat. I can't imagine how you would refinish a water based wood floor.

[ximmy]

Wow. I can appreciate the work & finish on your floors.

My home has oak floors that over the years were covered in tile, then rugs. I pulled up everything in the bedrooms. Each room took a couple months working at nights and on weekends, taking off tiles, glue, repairing & filling gouges, finding and pulling up little nails, sanding. I refinished them a couple of different times to get the shine/wood colors just right. I burned out my first new belt sander and bought another one to finish the job.

They really take a toll on you... I was sooo strong afterward.

[monty]

Wow. I can appreciate the work & finish on your floors. My home has oak floors that over the years were covered in tile, then rugs. I pulled up everything in the bedrooms. Each room took a couple months working at nights and on weekends, taking off tiles, glue, repairing & filling gouges, finding and pulling up little nails, sanding. I refinished them a couple of different times to get the shine/wood colors just right. I burned out my first new belt sander and bought another one to finish the job. They really take a toll on you... I was sooo strong afterward. 5901

I put oak floors in my house when I built it.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[Neuro]

I think you deserve to take life a bit easier! How old are your boys and how long have they been working with you? Anyway stay on as the head of the company, deal with the clients, give your sons advice, reduce your salary and increase theirs, and enjoy your spare time!

[woodman]

I think you deserve to take life a bit easier! How old are your boys and how long have they been working with you? Anyway stay on as the head of the company, deal with the clients, give your sons advice, reduce your salary and increase theirs, and enjoy your spare time!

Pretty much what I've been thinking. It is time to take a breather, but not let go altogether. I do want to make sure the boys are successfull.

[horseshoe3]

Pretty much what I've been thinking. It is time to take a breather, but not let go altogether. I do want to make sure the boys are successfull.

You've traded your energy for wisdom. Now you can use that wisdom to leverage your sons' energy. It's the natural order of things.

[Hitch]

If you are ever in Michigan Hitcher, give me a holler and I'll load you up.

Thanks woodman, if you are ever in California, give me a shout if you would be interested in a sailing adventure...

My experiences working with wood on this old boat sure has gained me an admiration for folks who are good at finishing wood. All the interior bulkheads and such are mahogany. I've had to refinish it all, still working on it. Been using Daly's Seafin oil, which is tung based, and wet sanding it all in by hand. Closing the grain by higher girt paper. I like the results. I've been postponing the flooring project, but your thread has sparked my interest back up. I'll look into spar urethane, thanks for the recommendation and God bless.

[woodman]

I've noticed the water based sealers for concrete floors are slippery, too.
I much prefer oil based clear satin polyurethanes on my indoor woodworking projects. It doesn't raise the grain like water based does and it's sandable when the time comes to recoat. I can't imagine how you would refinish a water based wood floor.
It is actually very easy to refinish a waterbased finish. Conventional wisdom says you cannot go back to oil once you've used waterbase on a floor because the oil base will not properly adhere to the old waterbase finish. I have found that you can recoat with oil based poly over water based if you properly clean and abrade the water based finish beforehand. The waterborne finish must be fully cured and I've never done it on a finish that was less than a year old. Of course Putting water based over oil is a very common undertaking. A trick of the trade is to seal a new floor with oil based sealer, then do the finish coats with water based.

The advantages of waterborne finish are: It does not amber appreciably. It dries fast, enabling multiple coats in one day. The smell is less offensive and dissipates quickly. It is claimed that it is less toxic, but I do not believe this.

It's disadvantages: It is slippery. It raises grain. It causes sidebonding also known as panelization (This is where multiple boards act monolithically and shrink as a unit, causing very large expansion cracks), very unsightly and disturbing. It is more prone to cracking and breaking (flaking) than oil base because it is a harder surface (less give).

I'm sure I'm leaving something out. There is a lot to know and remember. Oil base has it's place and waterborne does too. You can ensure satisfaction with waterbase by finishing the floor when it is at it's driest point. Then sidebonding will not be an issue. There are myriad reasons for using one over the other. If you are using a stain, then you may desire the richness and depth that the ambering properties of oil base will add. Some oil base polys are more ambering than others. Bona oil finishes are way clearer than high ambering Polo Plaz for instance. Polo Plaz can be successfully hot coated, where I would not attemp this with a Bona product.

Stains and staining is a whole other issue with many things to take into account. Maple typically looks hideous when stained unless you know how to water pop the surface prior to staining. If you do this you will end up with a product that is amazing!

The main thing to know about refinishing a floor (not to be confused with resanding) is to clean it and thoroughly abrade it. When this is done, you must thoroughly clean it prior to putting the finish on. You prep the surface by vacuuming and then tacking with a broom and damp towel until no dust can be seen on the towel.

This has been al enghty post but I figured I'd share a little because it has been mentioned in the past that some knowledge was desired. If anyone ever wants advice on how to fix or finish old floors or lay new ones, don't hesitate to ask.

[woodman]

Time to revisit this thread. I am done with the flooring business. I retired and shut my business down in the fall of 2018. It was a long time coming. The stress was terrible. I kicked my business into high gear after the recession hit in '08. I started working for a new main contractor and most of my business came through his company. He kept me busy, far busier than I really needed to be, but I took a lot of work on, in order to keep a steady flow with little downtime for the guys.

Business is often not what people see on the outside. My hours were long and at the outset I rarely even had a weekend day off. I suppose I did alright, all things considered, but I doubt I made as much as a typical electrician. I had no insurance or benefits. No paid holidays. No bonuses. I just worked hard and was very frugal over the years. Rarely ate out, even when working away from home, which was most often the case. Shitty motel rooms that were more often as the years wore on, infested with bed bugs. I would have to check diligently for them and sometimes I would miss them. Got bitten up really bad once in Pennsylvania. Turns out I am allergic to their bites. Man! I swelled up and itched like crazy for days on that one.

I tried to find workers but it is hard to find quality people and when you do they rarely want to stay and do this type of work. Being away from home is usually the deal breaker even for quality men. My sons were dependable. No one else was. My oldest boy has a flooring business in Detroit. My youngest son is now running my business, which I gave over to him. My middle son was a lawyer, but he now does something with oil leases in Texas, I hear. He and I have not talked in over 20 years.

I cannot tell you how tiring it gets, putting up with the petty little squabbles that people have with each-other and trying to get them to work together satisfactorily. Another downfall of being in business is the income taxes. It is bad enough to be middle class and taxed on earnings, but if you are self employed it is even worse. I might still be running the business if not for taxes. Then the insurance factor; Horrible how the insurance companies have become our masters. They are there to take their 'share' of every dollar you make, and their services are mandatory. They have lawmakers and politicians in their pockets to "insure' this.

Anyway, I am out. I am done. I told my boy that I would send him to college or trade school or whatever, but he wanted to try his hand at running the company. Good luck to him. He is young and energetic. I am old and worn out. It was a good run and I was very good at what I did. I really enjoyed it some of the time but I just got burned out.

[woodman]

I also got skin cancer in several different places. Stress, worry and hurry can't be good for a person and perhaps this was part of that equation.

I remember the scene from 'The Outlaw Josey Whales' where he tells the bounty hunter, "Dyin' ain't much of a livin' boy."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLRlY46ttfE

That is a great movie.

[vacuum]

I missed this thread the first time, but that is some great work.

I think your sons will be very successful.

[Atocha]

H
Time to revisit this thread. I am done with the flooring business. I retired and shut my business down in the fall of 2018. It was a long time coming. The stress was terrible. I kicked my business into high gear after the recession hit in '08. I started working for a new main contractor and most of my business came through his company. He kept me busy, far busier than I really needed to be, but I took a lot of work on, in order to keep a steady flow with little downtime for the guys.

Business is often not what people see on the outside. My hours were long and at the outset I rarely even had a weekend day off. I suppose I did alright, all things considered, but I doubt I made as much as a typical electrician. I had no insurance or benefits. No paid holidays. No bonuses. I just worked hard and was very frugal over the years. Rarely ate out, even when working away from home, which was most often the case. Shitty motel rooms that were more often as the years wore on, infested with bed bugs. I would have to check diligently for them and sometimes I would miss them. Got bitten up really bad once in Pennsylvania. Turns out I am allergic to their bites. Man! I swelled up and itched like crazy for days on that one.

I tried to find workers but it is hard to find quality people and when you do they rarely want to stay and do this type of work. Being away from home is usually the deal breaker even for quality men. My sons were dependable. No one else was. My oldest boy has a flooring business in Detroit. My youngest son is now running my business, which I gave over to him. My middle son was a lawyer, but he now does something with oil leases in Texas, I hear. He and I have not talked in over 20 years.

I cannot tell you how tiring it gets, putting up with the petty little squabbles that people have with each-other and trying to get them to work together satisfactorily. Another downfall of being in business is the income taxes. It is bad enough to be middle class and taxed on earnings, but if you are self employed it is even worse. I might still be running the business if not for taxes. Then the insurance factor; Horrible how the insurance companies have become our masters. They are there to take their 'share' of every dollar you make, and their services are mandatory. They have lawmakers and politicians in their pockets to "insure' this.

Anyway, I am out. I am done. I told my boy that I would send him to college or trade school or whatever, but he wanted to try his hand at running the company. Good luck to him. He is young and energetic. I am old and worn out. It was a good run and I was very good at what I did. I really enjoyed it some of the time but I just got burned out.

Shit.... Life..

[Ares]

Time to revisit this thread. I am done with the flooring business. I retired and shut my business down in the fall of 2018. It was a long time coming. The stress was terrible. I kicked my business into high gear after the recession hit in '08. I started working for a new main contractor and most of my business came through his company. He kept me busy, far busier than I really needed to be, but I took a lot of work on, in order to keep a steady flow with little downtime for the guys.

Business is often not what people see on the outside. My hours were long and at the outset I rarely even had a weekend day off. I suppose I did alright, all things considered, but I doubt I made as much as a typical electrician. I had no insurance or benefits. No paid holidays. No bonuses. I just worked hard and was very frugal over the years. Rarely ate out, even when working away from home, which was most often the case. Shitty motel rooms that were more often as the years wore on, infested with bed bugs. I would have to check diligently for them and sometimes I would miss them. Got bitten up really bad once in Pennsylvania. Turns out I am allergic to their bites. Man! I swelled up and itched like crazy for days on that one.

I tried to find workers but it is hard to find quality people and when you do they rarely want to stay and do this type of work. Being away from home is usually the deal breaker even for quality men. My sons were dependable. No one else was. My oldest boy has a flooring business in Detroit. My youngest son is now running my business, which I gave over to him. My middle son was a lawyer, but he now does something with oil leases in Texas, I hear. He and I have not talked in over 20 years.

I cannot tell you how tiring it gets, putting up with the petty little squabbles that people have with each-other and trying to get them to work together satisfactorily. Another downfall of being in business is the income taxes. It is bad enough to be middle class and taxed on earnings, but if you are self employed it is even worse. I might still be running the business if not for taxes. Then the insurance factor; Horrible how the insurance companies have become our masters. They are there to take their 'share' of every dollar you make, and their services are mandatory. They have lawmakers and politicians in their pockets to "insure' this.

Anyway, I am out. I am done. I told my boy that I would send him to college or trade school or whatever, but he wanted to try his hand at running the company. Good luck to him. He is young and energetic. I am old and worn out. It was a good run and I was very good at what I did. I really enjoyed it some of the time but I just got burned out.

I've been bouncing the idea of starting my own business, the taxes and regulations involved keep me from making the leap honestly.. I make damn good money what I do now, but I know deep down that I am just a well paid slave. Financial independence is a pipe dream anymore unless you were already born into it.

[woodman]

I've been bouncing the idea of starting my own business, the taxes and regulations involved keep me from making the leap honestly.. I make damn good money what I do now, but I know deep down that I am just a well paid slave. Financial independence is a pipe dream anymore unless you were already born into it.If you can find someone you trust, that is good with taxes and very organized, that is half the battle. It is hard to do your work and comply with all the demands that government and insurance place upon you. I always felt that consulting was the best way to go, if you are in a field where that is possible. I have talked to a couple of consulting engineers years ago, that did damn well and could pick and choose their clients.Corporations love to enslave people, but in the end they can only enslave those that are not daring enough to make a move for independence. My father was an engineer and very good at what he did. My Mom always wanted the safety and security that his employer gave, but I always thought he should have struck out on his own. Some of his work was stolen by some other engineers that left to form their own concern. It became obvious that they had stolen his programs and were using them to do design work. Big lawsuit and FBI was involved and my Dad had to testify. I don't know what ever happened with it. It drug on and he is now gone to greener pastures. All his inventions were property of the corporation because he developed them there, while working for them."They" don't want us to be independent and it is obvious that all these hoops we must jump through are in place for just this reason.Just think where we could be as a civilization, if all these weights were not upon us; If we were not dumbed down with chemicals and poisoned by our foods and our media. This truly would be the land of milk and honey. Instead we have a technological feudal system. It is all so stupid.

[Ares]

If you can find someone you trust, that is good with taxes and very organized, that is half the battle. It is hard to do your work and comply with all the demands that government and insurance place upon you. I always felt that consulting was the best way to go, if you are in a field where that is possible. I have talked to a couple of consulting engineers years ago, that did damn well and could pick and choose their clients.Corporations love to enslave people, but in the end they can only enslave those that are not daring enough to make a move for independence. My father was an engineer and very good at what he did. My Mom always wanted the safety and security that his employer gave, but I always thought he should have struck out on his own. Some of his work was stolen by some other engineers that left to form their own concern. It became obvious that they had stolen his programs and were using them to do design work. Big lawsuit and FBI was involved and my Dad had to testify. I don't know what ever happened with it. It drug on and he is now gone to greener pastures. All his inventions were property of the corporation because he developed them there, while working for them."They" don't want us to be independent and it is obvious that all these hoops we must jump through are in place for just this reason.Just think where we could be as a civilization, if all these weights were not upon us; If we were not dumbed down with chemicals and poisoned by our foods and our media. This truly would be the land of milk and honey. Instead we have a technological feudal system. It is all so stupid.

Engineer here as well. Mostly in Information Technology. I do some side consulting work now, but nothing large. I have a small medical office that I consult for and looking to employ a monthly contract for support / consultation. The downside is the taxation, and regulations. I'm familiar with HIPPA and compliance and have designed and built their network segmented for HIPPA compliance. The network traffic can never cross from the compliant side to the non-compliant side etc.

I've been looking at real estate investing here lately, as land is always in demand. Just trying to find the right method (for me) to make my money work for me instead of working for money.

[Neuro]

If you can find someone you trust, that is good with taxes and very organized, that is half the battle. It is hard to do your work and comply with all the demands that government and insurance place upon you. I always felt that consulting was the best way to go, if you are in a field where that is possible. I have talked to a couple of consulting engineers years ago, that did damn well and could pick and choose their clients.Corporations love to enslave people, but in the end they can only enslave those that are not daring enough to make a move for independence. My father was an engineer and very good at what he did. My Mom always wanted the safety and security that his employer gave, but I always thought he should have struck out on his own. Some of his work was stolen by some other engineers that left to form their own concern. It became obvious that they had stolen his programs and were using them to do design work. Big lawsuit and FBI was involved and my Dad had to testify. I don't know what ever happened with it. It drug on and he is now gone to greener pastures. All his inventions were property of the corporation because he developed them there, while working for them."They" don't want us to be independent and it is obvious that all these hoops we must jump through are in place for just this reason.Just think where we could be as a civilization, if all these weights were not upon us; If we were not dumbed down with chemicals and poisoned by our foods and our media. This truly would be the land of milk and honey. Instead we have a technological feudal system. It is all so stupid.

I feel that all could change if only physical persons could be the owners of intellectual property. The inventions should belong to the inventors.

[monty]

After I retired Jan. 2003 from a career working at the Kenworth truck dealership in Reno, Nevada I bought an old Kenworth conventional daycab and a 30 foot Clement half round semi end dump trailer. The bottom dump was rented from the broker I hauled hot asphalt for.


https://i.postimg.cc/tT27R0DQ/A72895-C3-EDF5-44-CC-B58-D-365-C1760-CE98.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/6qP3RdDM/3-A98-C0-AB-8-C98-4-A5-C-B70-A-8225-A21247-A2.jpg

During 2003 and 2004 most of my work was hauling sand and road base to the Nellis Air Force base at Tonopah Test Range. The gravel company didn’t report my earnings to the IRS so I had little income on my 1040.. About 2005 I worked on a couple of highway construction jobs hauling hot asphalt. These highway contractors wont hire you unless you sign W-9 and have $1,000,000.00 liability insurance. When tax time rolled around and I had to pay self-employment, medicare, and federal income tax there wasn’t much left for me. Jan. 2006 I formed an LLC for my business thinking I could reduce my taxes. I managed to save some the first year when I filed the 2006 taxes in 2007, but the form for an LLC is a real nightmare almost requiring a masters degree in accounting to understand it.

Later that year I found Pet Hendrickson’s www.losthorizons.com (http://www.losthorizons.com) website. I ordered his book. I had to read it about three times then study the Title 26 United States Code to understand what he was saying. In the book I read that the IRS would reimburse for 3 previous years if you filed amended returns. In August 2007 I filed amended 1040s for 2006, 2005 & 2004. Not too long after that I received full refunds, FICA, Medicare and Federal Income tax for the years 2006 & 2005. The IRS sent me a letter saying they weren’t going to refund the 2004 money because the 3 year period ended April 15, 2007 and I didn’t file the amended return until August 2007, but I could sue them for the money.

In 2008 I didn’t file the tax return for the LLC. I rebutted the Form 1099 Misc stating that the money paid to me and reported on the 1099s was incorrect because none of it was from a “Trade or Business that is a function of a Public Office”. I received a form letter from IRS saying they believed that I owed them money for for the tax year 2007. I checked off the reasons one of which was I had no employees who had taxable income then I wrote in the box “other comments” I am not engaged in a Trade or Business that is a function of a Public Office. I mailed the form back to them and never heard any more .

After Obama crashed the economy from 2009 to 2014 when I shut down and sold my truck and trailer I mostly hauled asphalt for highway construction contactors because the Air force wasn’t buying much product so there was little work on the Test Site.

I have not filed a 1040 since the amended returns I filed in the summer of 2007. I did however, make an information return every year by rebutting the incorrect From 1099s I received.

Today I ran across this,

https://i.postimg.cc/htS8pnwT/DEF11-B0-F-451-E-4205-A69-D-21508-B6-AE2-F2.jpg.

The Congressional Record says that the Federal Income Tax is an excise tax on a Federal activity or privelege and not a tax on your private sector earning.

[Ares]

After I retired Jan. 2003 from a career working at the Kenworth truck dealership in Reno, Nevada I bought an old Kenworth conventional daycab and a 30 foot Clement half round semi end dump trailer. The bottom dump was rented from the broker I hauled hot asphalt for.


https://i.postimg.cc/tT27R0DQ/A72895-C3-EDF5-44-CC-B58-D-365-C1760-CE98.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/6qP3RdDM/3-A98-C0-AB-8-C98-4-A5-C-B70-A-8225-A21247-A2.jpg

During 2003 and 2004 most of my work was hauling sand and road base to the Nellis Air Force base at Tonopah Test Range. The gravel company didn’t report my earnings to the IRS so I had little income on my 1040.. About 2005 I worked on a couple of highway construction jobs hauling hot asphalt. These highway contractors wont hire you unless you sign W-9 and have $1,000,000.00 liability insurance. When tax time rolled around and I had to pay self-employment, medicare, and federal income tax there wasn’t much left for me. Jan. 2006 I formed an LLC for my business thinking I could reduce my taxes. I managed to save some the first year when I filed the 2006 taxes in 2007, but the form for an LLC is a real nightmare almost requiring a masters degree in accounting to understand it.

Later that year I found Pet Hendrickson’s www.losthorizons.com (http://www.losthorizons.com) website. I ordered his book. I had to read it about three times then study the Title 26 United States Code to understand what he was saying. In the book I read that the IRS would reimburse for 3 previous years if you filed amended returns. In August 2007 I filed amended 1040s for 2006, 2005 & 2004. Not too long after that I received full refunds, FICA, Medicare and Federal Income tax for the years 2006 & 2005. The IRS sent me a letter saying they weren’t going to refund the 2004 money because the 3 year period ended April 15, 2007 and I didn’t file the amended return until August 2007, but I could sue them for the money.

In 2008 I didn’t file the tax return for the LLC. I rebutted the Form 1099 Misc stating that the money paid to me and reported on the 1099s was incorrect because none of it was from a “Trade or Business that is a function of a Public Office”. I received a form letter from IRS saying they believed that I owed them money for for the tax year 2007. I checked off the reasons one of which was I had no employees who had taxable income then I wrote in the box “other comments” I am not engaged in a Trade or Business that is a function of a Public Office. I mailed the form back to them and never heard any more .

After Obama crashed the economy from 2009 to 2014 when I shut down and sold my truck and trailer I mostly hauled asphalt for highway construction contactors because the Air force wasn’t buying much product so there was little work on the Test Site.

I have not filed a 1040 since the amended returns I filed in the summer of 2007. I did however, make an information return every year by rebutting the incorrect From 1099s I received.

Today I ran across this,

https://i.postimg.cc/htS8pnwT/DEF11-B0-F-451-E-4205-A69-D-21508-B6-AE2-F2.jpg.

The Congressional Record says that the Federal Income Tax is an excise tax on a Federal activity or privelege and not a tax on your private sector earning.

Nice find, and yes its the tax on the usage of Federal Reserve Notes. 12 USC 411

[monty]

Nice find, and yes its the tax on the usage of Federal Reserve Notes. 12 USC 411

A few years ago I sent my bank a notice and demand that all fund into and out of my a count are to be denominated in Lawful Money.

similar to this

Dear Bank President:
All transactions to my bank account Number xxxxxx shall be denominated as Lawful Money to be in compliance with Federal Law:
12 U.S. Code § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption


Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

Sincerely,

[Ares]

A few years ago I sent my bank a notice and demand that all fund into and out of my a count are to be denominated in Lawful Money.

similar to this

Dear Bank President:
All transactions to my bank account Number xxxxxx shall be denominated as Lawful Money to be in compliance with Federal Law:
12 U.S. Code § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

Sincerely,




Same here, a lot of people can't wrap their head around that Federal Reserve Notes were never meant for them, and that just by having or using them are declaring themselves to be a bank, or an agent of the federal reserve system.