After thinking about it........ me................... V

[Ponce]

When ever you buy any kind of gun equipment, ammo, cleaning rods, reloads etc etc etc...on line the government will know that you have "weapons of mass destruction" and it would be a simple task to find out what you have and come after it...same thing goes for anything paid for with a credit card at a gun store or other.............pay cash and don't leave a trail.

Don't make a gun into your God, learn to make your own "Zip" gun and keep the material at home in case you need it in order to take a real gun away from the power to be........cross bow and other items of war are handy to have, you never know when you will need something.

[Libertytree]

Mi amigo, you're preachin to the preachers :)

[woodman]

If you buy a pistol they know you have it because it is registered. If you buy a rifle from a shop, it is known. The only weapon they don't know you have is one bought from a private seller in the case of a long gun, or an illegal, non-registered pistol. Good luck finding a pistol that is not registered, because it is likely stolen.I think your idea of a crossbow is n excellent way to go

[palani]

Good luck finding a pistol that is not registered, because it is likely stolen.

Nonsense. I can go into any sporting goods store and purchase a replica black powder revolver, ball and powder or any firearm manufactured before 1899 and walk out with a cash receipt and no tracking. And these items are every bit as deadly today as they might have been over 100 years ago.

[mick silver]

rocks will work just as good

[madfranks]

And sticks. You can stab someone with a stick, maybe.

[woodman]

Nonsense. I can go into any sporting goods store and purchase a replica black powder revolver, ball and powder or any firearm manufactured before 1899 and walk out with a cash receipt and no tracking. And these items are every bit as deadly today as they might have been over 100 years ago.
A black powder revolver isn't going to do a whole lot of good in a jamb. I'll bet a pistol from the 1800's will not only be very expensive if it is in useable shape but not as effective as today's weapons. Let's not get silly.

[palani]

I'll bet a pistol from the 1800's will not only be very expensive if it is in useable shape but not as effective as today's weapons.

Nine rounds of .44 plus one round of 20 ga buckshot. NO PAPERWORK? How effective do you want to be?

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/Cabelas/005745?hei=373&wid=770&op_sharpen=1

[mick silver]

http://www.basspro.com/Black%20Powder%20Guns/_/C-4294535564?taCategory=Black%20Powder%20Guns&taSearchTerm=black%20power%20guns ... Black Powder Guns
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[midnight rambler]

Nine rounds of .44 plus one round of 20 ga buckshot. NO PAPERWORK? How effective do you want to be?



You can screw around with black powder all you want, however I HAVE been in a storm which involved a justifiable shooting and I want MAXIMUM 'effectiveness' (e.g. a modern high capacity COMBAT PISTOL with FOR REAL high performance personal defense ammo OR a 12 ga. with 6 or more rounds of high performance ammo). Don't be asinine.

[palani]

I want MAXIMUM 'effectiveness' (e.g. a modern high capacity COMBAT PISTOL with FOR REAL high performance personal defense ammo OR a 12 ga. with 6 or more rounds of high performance ammo).

Nobody is stopping you from building your own from scratch. That too is unregulated.

The only reason for a handgun is to be able to fight your way to a rifle anyway.

[midnight rambler]

Nobody is stopping you from building your own from scratch. That too is unregulated.

That's purely academic as I'm quite sure that anyone who's in possession of a gun built up from an 80% complete frame or receiver will be treated precisely the same as someone with a gun that has been deemed to be 'in interstate commerce' by the numbnuts local donut munchers.


The only reason for a handgun is to be able to fight your way to a rifle anyway.

You're mistaken, that's a common fallacy and just plain stupid. Someone with situational awareness and who's handy with a combat pistol won't be needing to make it to their long arm since they will have solved the problem with a few well placed rounds. IMO, in any given SOCIAL situation* if you end up emptying a pistol magazine (or used up all the rounds in your wheelgun) you've made some extremely poor tactical decisions in the first damn place. From my perspective, anyone making such a dumb ass assertion lacks genuine combat/tactical experience or training. (fwiw centerfire rifles are not socially acceptable for social situations anyway as a shotgun with the appropriate ammo is called for in such circumstances).

(I suppose you're going to use your nine shot blackpowder revolver to 'fight your way' to your pre-'99 Mauser bolt gun, or perhaps even a smokepole. lol)

*of course when 'at war' one will be carrying their long arm anyway

[7th trump]

Nonsense. I can go into any sporting goods store and purchase a replica black powder revolver, ball and powder or any firearm manufactured before 1899 and walk out with a cash receipt and no tracking. And these items are every bit as deadly today as they might have been over 100 years ago.

Bullshit Palani, you arent leaving any sporting goods store with any weapon in hand without a background check first and a signiture on government forms.
Theres a well known gun auction in Milan Illinois that deals with old historical guns you are talking about that go for tens of thousands a crack and nobody leaves there without the proper federal paperwork.
You've obviously have never been to any sporting goods store and purchased a weapon...black powder or anything have you.
Go to a conceal carry class and get embarrassed with your comment.
No complete rifle or hand gun is not tracked to who purchased it and when on the commercial plane....period!

[old steel]

If they come here to take my firearms which were all legally purchased they better be ready for a gunfight, cause that is what they are going to get.

[Norweger]

Nonsense. I can go into any sporting goods store and purchase a replica black powder revolver, ball and powder or any firearm manufactured before 1899 and walk out with a cash receipt and no tracking. And these items are every bit as deadly today as they might have been over 100 years ago.

I agree they are underrated, but how long would say a good condition Winchester 1887 work with modern ammunition? I think that some underestimate them and their ability to withstand smokeless powder, but i could be wrong though.

[palani]

Bullshit Palani, you arent leaving any sporting goods store with any weapon in hand without a background check first and a signiture on government forms.
I have done so in the past and intend to do so in the future. You go to the counter, pick up a replica black powder handgun along with the makings for the ammo, the clerk hands you whatever you ask for, you take it to a cashier and make your payment and walk out.


Theres a well known gun auction in Milan Illinois that deals with old historical guns you are talking about that go for tens of thousands a crack and nobody leaves there without the proper federal paperwork. And I have consigned a 1939 Walther double barrel flaregun to them in the past for auction. All nickel with mahogany furniture, Nazi markings, reputedly only used in their submarine service. But back to the point ... you can go here ... www.forthehunt.com ... and all auctions of blackpowder or antique handguns are clearly marked that they DON'T need to be shipped to an FFL. These black powder guns and replicas and antiques ARE NOT IN THE COMMERCIAL PLANE. Don't hang your hat on this entirely though because the ammo you put in them MIGHT be IN THE COMMERCIAL PLANE (and hence regulated).

[palani]

how long would say a Winchester 1887 work with modern ammunition?

Modern ammo is commercial. You want to stay away from that which is regulated (commerce). That goes for the weapon as well as the ammo. If you find an antique made before 1899 make sure that it is an unusual caliber that is no longer in use so that you MUST make your own.

[palani]

That's purely academic as I'm quite sure that anyone who's in possession of a gun built up from an 80% complete frame or receiver will be treated precisely the same as someone with a gun that has been deemed to be 'in interstate commerce' by the numbnuts local donut munchers.

It would be vain to claim the keeping of a thing which was lawful to be kept without any claim.

[Ponce]

Well, there goes another thread of the famous (or infamous) Ponce all shot to hell........you ladies should go to private, pull down your pants.....and see who has the biggest one GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

I am kidding, is fun to see you guys fight it out hahahahahahah

V

[midnight rambler]

I agree they are underrated, but how long would say a good condition Winchester 1887 work with modern ammunition? I think that some underestimate them and their ability to withstand smokeless powder, but i could be wrong though.

The 1887 Winchester is a lever age shotgun...don't you mean a Winchester 1886? If so, the 1886 Winchester will hold up to smokeless powder just fine (so long as the '86 you're using has a nickel-steel barrel), so long as you don't overcharge the case. As for blackpowder in a .45-70 case, the beauty of the .45-70 is that you can fill the case up with as much blackpower as it will hold and in a Winchester high wall (1885) or a 1886 it will work just fine.

BTW, the (John Browning designed) Winchester 1886 is one of the most awesome guns EVER.

[Norweger]

I was thinking about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887/1901

Would have been awesome to get an 1886 as well. I better check what they have at Rock Island Auction.

If its produced before 1890 it does not require any paperwork here.

[Norweger]

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/1022/lid/1019

drool

[mick silver]

i have seen them go higher then that