Suicide by Cop: POV Video of Cop Shooting Knife Wielding Man in Idaho

[Shami-Amourae]

Looks like suicide by cop. Pretty scary stuff. The comments are a bit ridiculous though, considering people are saying the cop should shoot the knife out of the man's hand and stuff like that. I'm not a fan of cops, but I kinda can't blame the cop in this situation.

Unedited:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBntEm1n2g

News story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1attRnhCNM

[woodman]

The cop was scared shitless. I'm not saying he shouldn't have shot the guy, but it was just a kid and he could have shot him once instead of unloading his weapon into him. Bottom line though is the kid was out of his mind and suicidal and I don't blame the cop for defending himself.

[Hitch]

The cop was scared shitless. I'm not saying he shouldn't have shot the guy, but it was just a kid and he could have shot him once instead of unloading his weapon into him. Bottom line though is the kid was out of his mind and suicidal and I don't blame the cop for defending himself.

There's a saying, if you only shoot one bullet, you are unsure of yourself and your situation. 5 bullets, and you definitely feel like you are fighting in self defense. They talked about that, how cops involved in shootings often don't even know how many shots they fired, their adrenaline and tunnel vision is in overdrive.

Also, in training, they showed us how a knife wielding attacker can kill you from across a room like this within a second or two. Everyone had to pass this scenario. A man with a knife, in our case a rubber one, rushes you. Most times you don't have time to even draw your weapon, he's on top of you. The only way to pass that, was to side step out of the man's way, then draw your gun. In this case the cop had the gun ready. Crazy shit.

[hoarder]

The guy was advancing slow enough that the cop could have shot the arm that was holding the knife. With the gun pointed and ready, he could have gotten off several more rounds in one second if he missed the arm.

[Hitch]

The guy was advancing slow enough that the cop could have shot the arm that was holding the knife. With the gun pointed and ready, he could have gotten off several more rounds in one second if he missed the arm.

Hoarder, the reality is, that's not how they train cops. They train center mass shots. When you fire your weapon it's to stop the threat, and that's center mass. Deadly force is deadly force, that's when cops pull the trigger. There's no training in hitting extremities. Deadly force is deadly force, and that's what they train.

[7th trump]

Hoarder, the reality is, that's not how they train cops. They train center mass shots. When you fire your weapon it's to stop the threat, and that's center mass. Deadly force is deadly force, that's when cops pull the trigger. There's no training in hitting extremities. Deadly force is deadly force, and that's what they train.

Good to know they shoot center mass when they break down the door of a wrong address.
Glad my street address is in big white letters off to the right hand side to the front door. If they cant see they have the wrong address then there'll be more than just my body to count.

[hoarder]

Hoarder, the reality is, that's not how they train cops.They train them to be effective henchmen that follow orders and procedures, never using their own judgement.

[woodman]

People really should handle things themselves. The cops are one trick ponies. All they know how to do is kill. The cop could have exited the house as soon as he was assured no others were present. The kid would have eventually come to his senses. He was riled up and not thinking clearly. This is typical for teenagers. Now we have a dead kid, a grieving family and a cop who will hate himself, because he knows deep down inside that he murdered a kid for no good reason.

[EE_]

People really should handle things themselves. The cops are one trick ponies. All they know how to do is kill. The cop could have exited the house as soon as he was assured no others were present. The kid would have eventually come to his senses. He was riled up and not thinking clearly. This is typical for teenagers. Now we have a dead kid, a grieving family and a cop who will hate himself, because he knows deep down inside that he murdered a kid for no good reason.

Or another cop that will be looking for his next adrenaline high?
The cop sounded like he got a nut, complete with heavy breathing when it was over.
I suppose he could have backed away and given the situation more time, but I'm sure cops are not programmed to back down.
It's easy to call a situation another way, until you're the one in the situation.

[Hitch]

They train them to be effective henchmen that follow orders and procedures, never using their own judgement.

Perhaps, though using your own judgment, against training, you better be able to back up your decision. Hindsight is 20/20. If the cop backed out of the house, and the knife kid ended up killing someone who may have been in the house (unknown at the time), he would have gone against his "training" and would have to live with that too..

Yes, cops are not trained to back down. Backing down has consequences too. The Columbine shooting in Colorado proves that.

[midnight rambler]

Now we have a dead kid, a grieving family and a cop who will hate himself, because he knows deep down inside that he murdered a kid for no good reason.

Not necessarily. Those with anti-social personality disorder (the new name for sociopaths and psychopaths) have no feels of guilt, remorse, or empathy, and apparently police agencies actively recruit those with APD (AND cultivate it during training).

[Hitch]

Not necessarily. Those with anti-social personality disorder (the new name for sociopaths and psychopaths) have no feels of guilt, remorse, or empathy, and apparently police agencies actively recruit those with APD (AND cultivate it during training).

You conceal carry, right? What would you do in this situation? A knife wielding man is coming at you with aggressive intentions, how do they teach you to handle situations in conceal carry friendly states?

Not to single you out midnight...but just curious for the sake of discussion. What's the proper way to handle this situation.

Out in CA, I can't carry in public, so unless it's in my home my only choice would be to either run or throw a lamp at the guy's head, or something.

IMO, these situations are what I call a "lose lose" situation, nothing good can come of it, and there will always be criticism and judgment after the dust settles.

[Shami-Amourae]

You conceal carry, right? What would you do in this situation? A knife wielding man is coming at you with aggressive intentions, how do they teach you to handle situations in conceal carry friendly states?

Personally I'd do the same thing the cop did. I'm a CWL holder. That's why I said I don't blame the way the cop acted.

[willie pete]

as slow as the guy was moving, sorta looks like the cop could've placed a shot or two, but there again as previously mentioned, cops are trained to Kill in ANY situation, the level of threat really doesn't matter. I think most look forward to killing a civilian, I'd almost bet you this same cop has shot many civilian dogs

[mick silver]

alot of theys guys are coming home from war zones and are getting jobs as cops ..... only the best

[Hitch]

alot of theys guys are coming home from war zones and are getting jobs as cops ..... only the best

This is true. You get bonus points with your application by having prior military experience. All things being equal, they will hire a military guy over a guy with no military experience.

[midnight rambler]

You conceal carry, right?

I'll never say what I do at any given time, except to say my body is a weapon. lol

[hoarder]

Perhaps, though using your own judgment, against training, you better be able to back up your decision.
In most occupations, people live in a world of procedures so they don't have to think or take responsibility.
Hindsight is 20/20. If the cop backed out of the house, and the knife kid ended up killing someone who may have been in the house (unknown at the time), he would have gone against his "training" and would have to live with that too...It seems cops should be a little less trigger happy when they enter someones home and point a gun at them than if they were in a similar situation on the street. If he wounded the kid in the arm, the latter wouldn't be able to hurt anyone else.

Most likely the poor kid was on anti-depressants or getting off them.

[midnight rambler]

What's the proper way to handle this situation.

What would I have done? First of all, the donut muncher was in someone else's abode. If it were ME, after hearing that the kid had a knife INSIDE HIS OWN HOME I would have called for a K-9 and waited it out. ("We're gonna send in the dog [while agitated dog is barking loudly], you BETTER come out with your hands up!") Cops are in WAY too much of a hurry these days...recall the recent incident where the cop killed the 18 y.o. at point blank range directly after saying "We don't have time for this."?? Seems to be the donut munchers' very first choice is to point a gun at someone, instead of using their heads (I'm referring to the one on their shoulders, NOT in their trousers).

ETA: Things need to be kept in context here, and perspective maintained - the kid apparently had a traffic accident (the donut muncher asking for his insurance), it isn't like the kid had demonstrated prior violence...remember, the donut muncher was in the kid's own house...the donut muncher was the one who brought violence to the scene, had the donut muncher not shown up the kid would likely still be alive. Donut munchers are not trained to 'help' anyone, they are trained to SUBDUE EVERYONE ABOVE ALL ELSE, first and foremost.

[Horn]

Cop could've walked out and radioed for the psychward while keeping an eye on the guy,

knowing he was in the kitchen alone with no windows or doors to escape. Guy only walked towards him when coaxed out.

[Cebu_4_2]

Kid was guilty and worthy of death. He was in his own domicile and an intruder made it so.

[Cebu_4_2]

Never bring a knife to a cop fight, rule #1.

[7th trump]

Cop could've walked out and radioed for the psychward while keeping an eye on the guy,

knowing he was in the kitchen alone with no windows or doors to escape. Guy only walked towards him when coaxed out.

On a legal standpoint lets say the cop radio's and waits for the psychward to arrive and while keeping an eye on the guy the guy decides to off himself.....now the cop and the police dept are open to law suits because the cop didnt follow procedure.
My problem with this is why couldnt the leo just used a taser to subdue the mentally troubled guy instead of unloading?

One more thing .........did the cop know this guy is mental?
Did the woman at the door tell the leo before going in he's dealing with someone who has a history of mental disorder?
If not, the leo is most likely going in with a different mind set and the woman is partially responsible for this outcome.

[Horn]

now the cop and the police dept are open to law suits because the cop didnt follow procedure

There was no response from the house as far as I could tell, calling for assistance from a no response can't be considered neglect. Testimony from the girlfriend was hearsay at most. Cop not being assaulted otherwise, has no claim for self defense.

His words falling on deaf ears are not "himself" being assaulted. Also apparently he was informed the person was involved in a car accident earlier, and could have assumed he did not have all his faculties, hearing being one of them.

Its obvious the cop had no intention of saving a life in his approach to the situation, with gun drawn and command words flowing was only looking to protect his own.

Death's hero, would have entered a burning building then ordered a crawling baby to walk out on its own. However we digress, police departments everywhere find anyone with IQ above 70 overqualified for the position.

[7th trump]

There was no response from the house as far as I could tell, entering and coaxing from a no response can't be considered neglect.

Testimony from the girlfriend was hearsay at most. Cop not being assaulted otherwise, has no claim for self defense.

His words falling on deaf ears are not "himself" being assaulted. Apparently he was informed the person was involved in accident and may have not had all his faculties.

Obviously there was a call made or the leo wouldnt have been there in the first place. Even if there wasnt any call the leo must have been attracted to the scene for assisting help.
The woman at the door said he was in the kitchen with a knife wanting t okill himself....and well.........sure enough there he was with a knife.

1. A call was made (obligation of the city to respond)
2. a leo responded (a fullfilling of obligation)
3. man found with knife
4. Leo asked man to put knife down and stop (man didnt put knife down and kept walking towards the leo)
5. Man with weapon in hand keeps walking towards leo (officer knowing this man has intentions to use knife, on himself or the leo....who knows for sure)
6. Leo opens fire

That is pretty much spot on what you are taught in conceal class when it comes to having to open fire on someone.
The threat was there and the man who had a weapon didnt stop approaching the leo.
In the conceal carry class (same class leo's go through) you are taught you can ony fire when a weapon is brandished with intent and the person is coming at you.
The leo was responding to a call for a man with a weapon having intent with using the weapon.

I'm glad I took the conceal carry class......its an eye opener

[Horn]

I'm glad I took the conceal carry class......its an eye opener

They must have told you that you can only meet force with equal force.

You are not in the right to fire for not having a command followed, such as "stop or I will shoot" when they are running or moving in any direction to, from, or away. Or block their means to escape and flee.

A stabbing or lunging action with the knife towards you would be required. Walking in your general direction, or getting too close for comfort is not considered an assault.

Perhaps he was making his way to the bathroom, with no other way to go?

[mick silver]

if he made the wish to kill himself he got the job done . never walk at a cop with a knife in your hands . like some have said never go to a gun fight with a knife and he knew this when he seen the cop .

[Horn]

if he made the wish to kill himself he got the job done . never walk at a cop with a knife in your hands . like some have said never go to a gun fight with a knife and he knew this when he seen the cop .

Maybe he wanted to go pee? and the cop blocked all exits for him to do so.

He should've dropped trou, and pissed on the cop's shoes.

[madfranks]

Why didn't the cop taze him instead of shoot him to death?

[Horn]

Why didn't the cop taze him instead of shoot him to death?

Probably became accustomed to civilians following his orders with sidearm and badge in tow,

felt comfortable with humans responding as pets would.


Recent studies determined that the average IQ for law enforcement nationwide is at the critical side of low.

National spokesperson William (Bill) Lowery stated that the reasons are clear. It has nothing to do with the very low wages. It's all about the position of power. We seem to attract the people that need to feel superior to the average citizen.
Everyone of higher intelligence seek better pay with less confrontation. City and county police are by far the lowest. Then State and Federal. Studies show that each officer should be appointed insted of hired. This puts pressure for a higher level of law enforcement on a board of elected officials.

[7th trump]

They must have told you that you can only meet force with equal force.

You are not in the right to fire for not having a command followed, such as "stop or I will shoot" when they are running or moving in any direction to, from, or away. Or block their means to escape and flee.

A stabbing or lunging action with the knife towards you would be required. Walking in your general direction, or getting too close for comfort is not considered an assault.

Perhaps he was making his way to the bathroom, with no other way to go?

No they say you can open fire if a weapon is brandished and the person is coming at you.
A weapon can be anything as long as its brandished as a weapon......know the law?

The law applies equally.
Like I say I'm glad I went to the conceal carry class.........it opened my eye to being in the know of how the law, in this situation, works. You on the other hand are assuming to much. Your emotions are controling you...you make to many assumptions.
Obviously it didnt register with you when i said the conceal carry class for citizens is the same class the leo's take......the law applies equally which probably wont register with you what the significants of that means either.

Yeah sure what ever.........only an idiotic fool goes to the bathroom with a knife in his hand while being screamed at by a leo pointing a gun at you to drop the knife..........what ever....beleive what you will..........I'm not that stupid!

[Horn]

No they say you can open fire if a weapon is brandished and the person is coming at you.

Blocking their escape is an assault by you, that justifies their assault towards you.

You should be thrown in jail for considering using force against a non applicable force.

The (or any) exit in this case was blocked by the cop. You cannot "corner" an intruder, it is considered an assault.

Now if they are trying to "corner" you, or breaking and entering that is their assault.

[7th trump]

Blocking their escape is an assault by you, that justifies their assault towards you.

You should be thrown in jail for considering using force against a non applicable force.

The (or any) exit in this case was blocked by the cop. You cannot "corner" an intruder, it is considered an assault.

Now if they are trying to "corner" you, or breaking and entering that is their assault.

You shouldnt be commenting on gun laws....its plain and simple you're clearly not familiar with gun laws.
Anyway, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If the man holding the knife was familiar with the gun laws the leo is controlled by he would have recognized that holding a knife (weapon) and walking toward the leo is threatening the leo and putting himself in danger of being killed for his ignorant actions.
The gun laws are on the books for any and all people to study and understand......like I said ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Like wise I cannot discharge a weapon at a burglar in my own home if the burglar isnt threatening my life or anyone elses, however, the second he comes forward with a weapon in hand I have every right to protect myself and others with lethal force if neccessary.
You just cannot kill a burglar in your home unless you are life threatened....otherwise it'll be manslaughter.....if not murder!
And no you cannot display your weapon at a burglar because then the burglar is threatened and he may do something to protect himself like coming at you with his weapon....you wont understand this but displaying a weapon in that nature to a burglar who isnt displaying a weapon is escalating the situation to something the gun laws try and stop.
You cannot be gun happy and just shoot someone...........this is why Iowa doesnt have the castle doctrine implimented.

Like I sau go and read the gun laws before you make more ignorant comments.
Its best if you learn the gun laws and think about what you are going to say before you say it.

[Horn]

like coming at you with his weapon....

The point you are getting correct is comparing the police officer to yourself in this situation, (regarding gun laws) as he was acting as civil servant in this case.

The point you are obviously oblivious to is that, the deadly weapon and act of coming at you (seeking to corner) was performed by the police officer firstly. As is evident in the video. Are you claiming that the police officer is correct in his approach of "seeking and blocking" any foreseeable exit?

It is the determination of this court or any other in the land that had his badge been non-existent he is guilty of primary assault with a deadly weapon. As is shown in taking up probably 50% the time in the above and mentioned video...the victim was then justified in his further response, the cop not justified in his summary response to that response, as he was blocking any foreseeable exit of the victim.

Knowing someone is in your house then blocking or preventing their escape at your front door with shotgun in tow you will be found guilty of assault. You have to allow for their ability to flee the scene, if not you are guilty.

[Hitch]

Obviously there was a call made or the leo wouldnt have been there in the first place. Even if there wasnt any call the leo must have been attracted to the scene for assisting help.
The woman at the door said he was in the kitchen with a knife wanting t okill himself....and well.........sure enough there he was with a knife.

1. A call was made (obligation of the city to respond)
2. a leo responded (a fullfilling of obligation)
3. man found with knife
4. Leo asked man to put knife down and stop (man didnt put knife down and kept walking towards the leo)
5. Man with weapon in hand keeps walking towards leo (officer knowing this man has intentions to use knife, on himself or the leo....who knows for sure)
6. Leo opens fire

That is pretty much spot on what you are taught in conceal class when it comes to having to open fire on someone.
The threat was there and the man who had a weapon didnt stop approaching the leo.
In the conceal carry class (same class leo's go through) you are taught you can ony fire when a weapon is brandished with intent and the person is coming at you.
The leo was responding to a call for a man with a weapon having intent with using the weapon.

I'm glad I took the conceal carry class......its an eye opener

7th you hit the ball out of the park with this post. This is 100% accurate, at least from my own personal experience with LE.

[Hitch]

Why didn't the cop taze him instead of shoot him to death?

A couple of reasons. You never take a taser to a knife fight. Knife's are a deadly weapon, tasers are not. Secondly, he already had his gun out. If he took the time to holster his gun, and pull the taser out, that was a window of opportunity for the knife guy to attack.

At the moment of the shooting, one man had a gun, one man had a knife, both deadly weapons. Both men had these weapons out ready to fight. The man with the gun gave the man with the knife several opportunities to put it down peacefully. The man with the knife would not and kept advancing. The man with the gun opened fire in self defense.

[Horn]

7th you hit the ball out of the park with this post. This is 100% accurate, at least from my own personal experience with LE.

That is pretty much spot on what you are taught in conceal class when it comes to having to open fire on someone.

You as a private citizen are not permitted to seek and corner an intruder preventing his flight path. Unless you are trying to preform some type of citizen's arrest in which case if you end up slaying your suspect you can be sent up the pike for manslaughter.

The officer in this case had no evidence or command to proceed with engagement, other than hearsay. If an arrest was indeed his intention it should have been stated, as the "assailant" made no motion towards engagement with him, and was only guilty of walking towards the dinning room table with a knife.

Its compareable to shooting a man standing on the ledge of a building after he refuses to come down.

[Hitch]

The officer in this case had no evidence or command to proceed with engagement, other than hearsay. If an arrest was indeed his intention it should have been stated, as the "assailant" made no motion towards engagement with him, and was only guilty of walking towards the dinning room table with a knife.

Its compareable to shooting a man standing on the ledge of a building after he refuses to come down.

Horn, you are really reaching with this one...

If the man on the ledge tries to take you with him, you can act in self defense.

I don't care if you are a cop, a man, woman, leprechaun, etc...if a man with a knife is advancing on you, you can and should shoot him. You are making this more complicated than it really is.

[Horn]

I don't care if you are a cop, a man, woman, leprechaun, etc...if a man with a knife is advancing on you, you can and should shoot him. You are making this more complicated than it really is.

If I know there is a mixed up individual in the kitchen with a knife, the rather sane and responsible action would be anything other than to go in there (advancing) with a gun pointed and try and start a fight with him by ordering him to release with his current fetish.

Its manslaughter.

[midnight rambler]

7th you hit the ball out of the park with this post. This is 100% accurate, at least from my own personal experience with LE.

The quoted portion confirms my suspicion that 7th dump is a closet statist.

[Hitch]

with a gun pointed and try and start a fight with him by ordering him to release with his current fetish..

Where do you interpret "start a fight" in this situation? The cop is seen, on camera, saying "it's not worth it", and other things trying to diffuse the situation. He is very clearly trying to help. The cop was not advancing. As soon as he saw the guy in the kitchen, he stopped. The guy with the knife was the one advancing.

Midnight had a good point about sending in a k9 dog. Maybe things would have been different, except the dog would definitely have advanced on the guy in the kitchen. Could have resulted in a dead dog. Since dogs can't give commands such as "put down the knife", dogs are hands on all the time. Or rather teeth on. The dog was a 100% chance of a physical confrontation. A cop who tries to reason with people may be able to talk them down peacefully. This cop tried that, clearly in this video.

[midnight rambler]

Could have resulted in a dead dog.

So you're suggesting the life of some fucking police dog is more valuable than a kid's life (or ANYONE'S life for that matter)??

Like I asserted earlier, cops these days are in just too much of a hurry to act rationally in order to save lives, it's ALL about submitting to some state actor RIGHT FUCKING NOW ASSHOLE OR I'M GONNA KILL YOU!!!

The donut munchers are NOT your 'friends', they are trained to COMPEL EVERYONE to BOW DOWN AND SUBMIT to the state as GOD, or else they will DESTROY you as their primary mission.

[Horn]

Probably became accustomed to civilians following his orders with sidearm and badge in tow,

felt comfortable with humans responding as pets would.

...

This is really all there is to it.

[Horn]

He is very clearly trying to help. The cop was not advancing. As soon as he saw the guy in the kitchen, he stopped. The guy with the knife was the one advancing.

Bullshit, he was commanding all and everyone in the house as if he were a superior God to all in existence.

In those cases its also easy as pie to deal death, as he did.

He should not have proceeded with the force and backed the fuck off until actually assaulted, which he was not in any way, shape or form assaulted.

[EE_]

Hypothetical situation...

You have a CCW
You are walking to your car when someone tells you to stop.
You feel threatened and pull your weapon as you are turning around.
It's a cop standing there with his taser drawn and pointed directly at you. (apparently the cop has made a mistake and thinks you are a criminal)
Your gun is pointed directly at the cop.
The cop tells you to drop your weapon as he begins to reach for his.
You have a split second to decide...what do you do?

[midnight rambler]

Hypothetical situation...

You have a CCW
You are walking to your car when someone tells you to stop.
You feel threatened and pull your weapon as you are turning around.
It's a cop standing there with his taser drawn and pointed directly at you. (Aparently the cop has made a mistake and thinks you are a criminal)
Your gun is pointed directly at the cop.
The cop tells you to drop your weapon as he begins to reach for his.
You have a split second to decide...what do you do?

If he clears his holster I suppose you have to do what you have to do, considering trigger happy cops these days.

On a side note, very bad hypothetical situation your posited, as in very poor tactical response to someone "telling you to stop" - IMO.

[Hitch]

So you're suggesting the life of some fucking police dog is more valuable than a kid's life (or ANYONE'S life for that matter)??.

Bullshit, I never suggested that. My point, was that dogs can't talk. People can. You have a higher chance of resolving things peacefully through talking than sending in an aggressive dog. If the cops sent in the dog, and the dog got killed....YOU would be the first person to say "why didn't they just talk to the guy?"

Bottom line, you hate cops so whatever they do, you will find a way to make them out to be the bad guys.

[midnight rambler]

Bullshit, I never suggested that. My point, was that dogs can't talk. People can. You have a higher chance of resolving things peacefully through talking than sending in an aggressive dog. If the cops sent in the dog, and the dog got killed....YOU would be the first person to say "why didn't they just talk to the guy?"

Bottom line, you hate cops so whatever they do, you will find a way to make them out to be the bad guys.

Your cop mentality comes glaring through. I NEVER said to actually send in the dog, only make noises about sending in the dog. As I keep saying, generally cops are stupid fucks who are unable to come up with creative solutions TO SAVE LIVES, forever in a fucking hurry to do the gang high fives over some dead body*.

*It ALL boils down to: "subject didn't IMMEDIATELY SUBMIT to our 'lawful authority of the state (GOD)' so we had to hurry things along" (and killed the subject).

"IF YOU DON'T IMMEDIATELY SUBMIT TO OUR GOD WE WILL DESTROY YOU!!!"

[Hitch]

Your cop mentality comes glaring through. I NEVER said to actually send in the dog, only make noises about sending in the dog. As I keep saying, generally cops are stupid fucks who are unable to come up with creative solutions TO SAVE LIVES, forever in a fucking hurry to do the gang high fives over some dead body.

Sergeant Midnight responds to the scene....

Officer Horn, "Sergeant, we have a distraught woman pleading for help. A man inside armed with a knife threatening to kill himself, what do we do?"

Midnight,"Send in the dog!!!"

A few minutes later...

Officer Horn, "Sarg....it's a bloody mess inside. We have a dead dog, and the guy killed himself afterwards. You have some paperwork to do. Think you'll be promoted to Lieutenant?"

[midnight rambler]

Dial 911 AND DIE!

[Horn]

Bottom line, you hate cops so whatever they do, you will find a way to make them out to be the bad guys.

Andy lets his badge do his talking for him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGvM6e8Cfdw

The proper thing to do would be to peak around the refrigerator corner and ask him what he was planning to do and that he has his significant other worried.

Then based on that make another call for direction.

[Santa]

Imagine if a neighbor had come along to help and done what that cop did.

[midnight rambler]

Imagine if a neighbor had come along to help and done what that cop did.

He wouldn't get a paid vacation? ???

[Hitch]

The proper thing to do would be to peak around the refrigerator corner and ask him what he was planning to do and that he has his significant other worried.

Then based on that make another call for direction.

^^ The best suggestion in this thread.

[Cebu_4_2]

Officer Horn, "Sarg....it's a bloody mess inside. We have a dead dog, and the guy killed himself afterwards. You have some paperwork to do. Think you'll be promoted to Lieutenant?"

Absolutely, time and time again has been proven to be the norm.

[Hitch]

Absolutely, time and time again has been proven to be the norm.

I do think the peter principle applies to LE as well. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

[7th trump]

The quoted portion confirms my suspicion that 7th dump is a closet statist.

You think I'm a closet statist because I went to the conceal course and learned everyone, including the perps, have rights?
The course is design to allow nonlaw enforcement, who without a certain degree of criminal background, to carry responsibly and protect themselves.....but most of all the course is designed to keep you out of legalities.....we don't live in the wild west anymore pal!
Do you think I'm chomping at the bit to kill someone?
Do you think I want to get into a gun fight?
Let me tell you something Mr. knowitall....a gun fight is the last thing I ever went to be in.
I don't think you ever been around a farm to witness butchering of live stock.
Its not pretty to hear an animal grasp for its last breath and groaning in pain because its throat is cut with a .22 in the head.
Its a memorable depressing thing to have to witness....blood everywhere!

Tell me one thing midnight!
Have you ever been to the conceal course?

If not ....shut the $%^& up!

[7th trump]

Bullshit, I never suggested that. My point, was that dogs can't talk. People can. You have a higher chance of resolving things peacefully through talking than sending in an aggressive dog. If the cops sent in the dog, and the dog got killed....YOU would be the first person to say "why didn't they just talk to the guy?"

Bottom line, you hate cops so whatever they do, you will find a way to make them out to be the bad guys.
Hitcher...its impossible to deal with people who have never been to the conceal class....forgive them for they are ignorant and do not understand.
I'll say it again....when the shit hits the fan the last people I want to be around are dangerous off the wall people like horn and rambler.
At least being around perps you know what to expect out their mentality....rambler and horn are what God calls heathens as they are neither hot nor are they cold....fence riders....cannot be trusted and should not be trusted.
As you can clearly see they are biased regardless of any reasoning.....not honest and not trustworthy.
They demonstrate a lower level of understanding and refuse to reach for a higher level.

[midnight rambler]

Did any of y'all know that 7th dump had a bit part in a movie?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U30ez8xElEs

[Hitch]

Relax 7th, you carry responsibly and have the knowledge and common sense to know how to handle situations should the need arise to be armed.

This thread makes me ponder if folks really live in reality sometimes.

[BrewTech]

Sergeant Midnight responds to the scene....

Officer Horn, "Sergeant, we have a distraught woman pleading for help. A man inside armed with a knife threatening to kill himself, what do we do?"

Midnight,"Well, his body is his property, if he wants to off himself, let him! Either we respect private property rights, or we don't. And there isn't any property more private than one's body. As far as I'm concerned, he has the right to dispose of his own property as he sees fit."

Officer Horn, "Wow, why didn't I think of it that way? I'm gonna quit this psychotic "career" and find something useful to do with my life! Thanks, Sarge!"



In a perfect world...

[midnight rambler]

This thread makes me ponder if folks really live in reality sometimes.

Yeah, I have to wonder too.

Have you ever shot at someone at very close range fully intending to kill them?

[Hitch]

Have you ever shot at someone at very close range fully intending to kill them?

I have been very very close, many times. Thankfully never pulled the trigger on someone. I am grateful for that.

[7th trump]

Did any of y'all know that 7th dump had a bit part in a movie?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U30ez8xElEs

So it is....you've never been to a conceal class....and look at you go!

[midnight rambler]

I have been very very close, many times. Thankfully never pulled the trigger on someone. I am grateful for that.

Well, that's the point I was making - you've never actually dropped the hammer on someone in a justifiable shooting. "Very very close" isn't actually shooting at someone doing your BEST to kill them. So I suggest you quit acting like an expert on a matter you don't have personal first hand experience with. That goes for the rest of you armchair warrior pretenders as well (and I can count them on one hand here, and have digits to spare).

[Hitch]

Well, that's the point I was making - you've never actually dropped the hammer on someone in a justifiable shooting. "Very very close" isn't actually shooting at someone doing your BEST to kill them. So I suggest you quit acting like an expert on a matter you don't have personal first hand experience with. That goes for the rest of you armchair warrior pretenders as well (and I can count them on one hand here, and have digits to spare).

This post just shows you've run out of ammo for your argument. That's all.

I've never claimed to be an expert, I'd never claim that. Take my posts for what they say, that's my opinion.

It's my opinion, you can't stay on topic and must result to a dick measuring contest.

[7th trump]

This post just shows you've run out of ammo for your argument. That's all.

I've never claimed to be an expert, I'd never claim that. Take my posts for what they say, that's my opinion.

It's my opinion, you can't stay on topic and must result to a dick measuring contest.

Mean while Midnight (the pot calling the kettle black) has never dropped the hammer on anyone either....much less even taken the conceal carry course to have personal experience to qualify to argue with someone who job it was to drop the hammer if it ever came to that.
What I want to know is where did mr. Rambler get the idea Hitcher ever dropped the hammer to say this


So I suggest you quit acting like an expert on a matter you don't have personal first hand experience with
I don't recall Hitcher ever saying he did....Hitcher has more experience in the matter than Rambler ever thought he had.

[Hitch]

Mean while Midnight (the pot calling the kettle black) has never dropped the hammer on anyone either....much less even taken the conceal carry course to have personal experience to qualify to argue with someone who job it was to drop the hammer if it ever came to that.
What I want to know is where did mr. Rambler get the idea Hitcher ever dropped the hammer to say this


I don't recall Hitcher ever saying he did....Hitcher has more experience in the matter than Rambler ever thought he had.

It doesn't make any sense, logically.

The same folks cast judgement on thug cops who DO pull the trigger, yet yes, I was a cop, and I never pulled the trigger and my opinion means nothing.

You know, I pulled my gun out every shift I worked. I pointed it at someone, ready to pull the trigger. Every shift I worked. I never did, never pulled that trigger, though many times it would have been justified. If that makes my opinion worthless....I am glad for that. My beat was the worst beat in one of the top 10 worst cities in our country. I am glad I am a nobody. Consider me a broom resting on a wall somewhere.

[Neuro]

I'll never say what I do at any given time, except to say my body is a weapon. lol
Really?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001721191/human-cannonball-43825090496_xlarge.jpeg

;D

[EE_]

See, sometimes they do send in the dogs first...

SoCal Police Sic Dog on Sleeping Old Woman
Monday, January 27, 2014 Last Update: 3:54 PM PT
By ELIZABETH WARMERDAM


RIVERSIDE, Calif. (CN) - San Bernardino Police sent a dog to viciously attack an 88-year-old woman as she slept in bed in her own home, the woman claims in court.

Katharina Lambert sued San Bernardino, Police Chief Robert Handy and Officers J. Castro, S. Aranda and J. Echevarria, in Federal Court.

Lambert says the three officers entered her home at 11:30 p.m. on Jan. 23, 2013, allegedly in response to a silent burglar alarm. Without warrant or any pressing circumstances, Echevarria entered with a police dog, Lambert says.

Echevarria did not announce his entrance or warn that he was releasing a dog that might attack and bite, Lambert says in the lawsuit.

"Moreover, Echevarria knew, when he entered, that the dog was trained to bite hard, and to bite anywhere it could on a person's body," Lambert claims.

The dog entered her bedroom, where Lambert was "unarmed, dressed only in clothes for sleeping, lying in her bed, and presented no threat to anyone," she says in the complaint.

It "viciously attacked her, biting her on her arm and shoulder, waking her and causing serious injuries, including puncture wounds, severe bruising, and other physical injuries, as well as severe emotional distress. Echevarria had to physically remove the dog in order to get the dog to stop its relentless attack upon Ms. Lambert. Any medical care for Ms. Lambert was then unnecessarily delayed," the woman says.

The officers failed to take into account that Lambert has a severe hearing impairment, which the police department knew about, according to the complaint.

Lambert blames the city and its police chief as well. She claims their officers are not properly disciplined and that the culture of the San Bernardino Police Department created the belief that "it is permissible to unlawfully enter a person's home, deploy a police K-9 to attack innocent people, refuse to accommodate a disabled person, and delay prompt medical care."

Lambert seeks punitive damages for unlawful entry, excessive force, municipal liability, supervisor liability, Americans with Disabilities Act violations, strict liability, battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress and negligence.

She is represented by Barry Walker of Canyon Lake.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/01/27/64844.htm

[7th trump]

See, sometimes they do send in the dogs first...

SoCal Police Sic Dog on Sleeping Old Woman
Monday, January 27, 2014 Last Update: 3:54 PM PT
By ELIZABETH WARMERDAM


RIVERSIDE, Calif. (CN) - San Bernardino Police sent a dog to viciously attack an 88-year-old woman as she slept in bed in her own home, the woman claims in court.

Katharina Lambert sued San Bernardino, Police Chief Robert Handy and Officers J. Castro, S. Aranda and J. Echevarria, in Federal Court.

Lambert says the three officers entered her home at 11:30 p.m. on Jan. 23, 2013, allegedly in response to a silent burglar alarm. Without warrant or any pressing circumstances, Echevarria entered with a police dog, Lambert says.

Echevarria did not announce his entrance or warn that he was releasing a dog that might attack and bite, Lambert says in the lawsuit.

"Moreover, Echevarria knew, when he entered, that the dog was trained to bite hard, and to bite anywhere it could on a person's body," Lambert claims.

The dog entered her bedroom, where Lambert was "unarmed, dressed only in clothes for sleeping, lying in her bed, and presented no threat to anyone," she says in the complaint.

It "viciously attacked her, biting her on her arm and shoulder, waking her and causing serious injuries, including puncture wounds, severe bruising, and other physical injuries, as well as severe emotional distress. Echevarria had to physically remove the dog in order to get the dog to stop its relentless attack upon Ms. Lambert. Any medical care for Ms. Lambert was then unnecessarily delayed," the woman says.

The officers failed to take into account that Lambert has a severe hearing impairment, which the police department knew about, according to the complaint.

Lambert blames the city and its police chief as well. She claims their officers are not properly disciplined and that the culture of the San Bernardino Police Department created the belief that "it is permissible to unlawfully enter a person's home, deploy a police K-9 to attack innocent people, refuse to accommodate a disabled person, and delay prompt medical care."

Lambert seeks punitive damages for unlawful entry, excessive force, municipal liability, supervisor liability, Americans with Disabilities Act violations, strict liability, battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress and negligence.

She is represented by Barry Walker of Canyon Lake.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/01/27/64844.htm

Look at the hypocrits.....wheres the outrage for sending in a dog to attack an 88 year old elderly woman sleeping in her own bed......nothing but "thank you's".
I beleive midnight rambler is a closet statist!

[EE_]

Look at the hypocrits.....wheres the outrage for sending in a dog to attack an 88 year old elderly woman sleeping in her own bed......nothing but "thank you's".
I beleive midnight rambler is a closet statist!

The 'thank you's' are outrage and because the article is more proof cops are out of control
You should know that

[Horn]

You should know that

He's claiming self defense, when it was he that comes trigger happy thru the door,

and remaining ignorant of any required foreseeable flight path.

[7th trump]

The 'thank you's' are outrage and because the article is more proof cops are out of control
You should know that

No.............they are truely hypocrits.
Midnight suggested to send in a dog first. And look what happened to this woman. Heck they even went as far as not even notifying the people in the house they were sending in a dog....didnt tell anyone they were even there in the first place.
Midnight is a hypocrit....actually he cannot think far enough ahead to see past his nose of what consequences might happen.
Midnight wants to send in the K9 before any armed cops go in so nobody gets shot. And when they do as he suggests the cops are still assholes.
Hitcher hit the nail on the head about midnightrambler........nothing the cops do (good, the bad, the ugly) will ever convice him otherwise.
Midnight doesnt think on the next level......midnight fails to understand if the guy with the knife or even the woman who called the police in the first place had known the gun laws do you think the guy would have not put the knife down and not advanced towards the cop who's following procedure?
Midnight needs to go to a conceal carry class so he understands what the cop has to do.....problem is Midnight doesnt recognize authority at all....and I'm not saying "authority" in the context that all cops are bad. I'm refferencing authority as the cop has a legal obligation and has to follow procedure otherwise the cop is at risk of being convicted of murder or manslaughter. Both sides need to understand this gun procedure. If the guy with the knife knew the cop will fire if he advances towards the cop with a weapon the cop has every right to unload in self defense.
As far as the gun laws and cops go........any conceal carry person could have shot the advancing guy with the knife and still would have been in the right......like I said the gun laws are equal. The cops do not have an advantage just because they have a badge.

Midnight demonstrates what he is.....he criticizes the cops for defending himself from an advancing mad man with a knife (not the cops fault if the dumbass with the knife fails to read up on gun laws) and turns around and gives a "thank you" for a woman being attacked by a dog....he cant have it both ways!

[SWRichmond]

This video seems to me to offer proof that:

1. Never ever call the police to "help" you. The violence begins when the police show up. Perhaps in this case it is because they represented, in that young person's mind, the finality of the situation: decision time now, can't think about it anymore. No more reflection, no more what ifs, no more thinking about how bad it might or might not be, no more time. Submit or die; those are your choices.
2. No non-lethal force options? I thought this was what tasers were for, except maybe this department didn't issue them because too many cops use them as torture instruments?
3. "Fire until the target changes shape or starts burning."
4. The state as parent: "I don't know what to do, I'll call the government and they will help".

[Neuro]

Like Satan reads the bible comes to my mind...

[SWRichmond]

I'm going to rant now.

Why did this woman call the police? Where was dad? Where was the extended family? I like to think that, generations ago when we lived in actual "communities", that this woman would have had more numerous, and more compassionate, resources to call on than she apparently had on that day. THIS IS WHAT FAMILY IS FOR. THIS IS WHY IT MATTERS. And while I am not at all religious, THIS IS WHAT COMMUNITY AND CHURCH ARE FOR.

THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FAMILY, IT IS NOT YOUR COMMUNITY, AND IT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. THE STATE COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN SURVIVE. THE STATE ONLY CARES ABOUT ITSELF. THE STATE IS NOT RELIABLE. THE STATE IS BUILT ON A FOUNDATION OF VIOLENCE; ITS ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE IS ITS LEGAL MONOPOLY ON THE USE OF FORCE.

Police are trained in violence, modern police moreso than ever.

What has caused, or at least certainly facilitated, the destruction of family, community, and church? THE STATE. Their religious functions notwithstanding, churches were the organizing principles of communities. Now, the idea of community has been supplanted by the state.

[midnight rambler]

Nice rant.


Their religious functions notwithstanding, churches were the organizing principles of communities. Now, the idea of community has been supplanted by the state.

Actual churches are EXTREMELY rare at this stage of the game, what we have now are state created corporations (with their primary function being to SERVE THE STATE) masquerading as churches.

[Horn]

Like Satan reads the bible comes to my mind...

Obvious the officer was not trained in how persons under trauma may react.

Satan must also draw a blank in that department, due to all the continuous experimentation.

[iOWNme]

Im not even going to give my opinion here, because everyone already knows what it think.

But i will say this:

More and more mebers of GSUS are coming to the reality that the 'State' and 'Government' are nothing more than euphemisms for the initiation of violence. ALL FORMS, IN ALL PLACES.

The root of the problem we face exists BETWEEN THE EARS of the people. Getting 'patriots' and 'constitutionalists' to see this and admit it is one of the hardest things to do. I know because i did it. I was a hardcore 'nationalist' for America, and it took a lot of intellectual kicking and screaming for me to be able to be honest with myself. For any members here who think i may be bashing you, just know that i am bashing the me of yesterday as well.

NOBODY EVER goes back to the cult of Statism. Once you completely grasp the concept of self ownership and the non aggression principle, you will never go back. It is a digital switch, like on and off. It is not an analog scale where you own 85% of yourself, and the collective owns the other 15%.

And just like the flat earth, the divine right of Kings or owning slaves; There will ALWAYS be evidence pointing towards the truth, it is just a matter of getting a small number of people to recognize reality and to accept it for what it is. Just remember, it is ALWAYS a very small minority of people who nudge humanity in the right direction. It has NEVER been the majority or the collective that have pushed humanity forward, it is ALWAYS a small group of empowered individuals who change this planet for the better.

I coud stand here and say "Owning a slave is wrong", but big deal! EVERYONE knows that now. The time to say it was in the 1850's when NOBODY was talking about it. And just like today, the time to speak up about the inherent violence of the State IS NOW while most people dont see it.

The CULT of Statism is doomed. It may take another 10, 20 or 50 years, but the belief in 'Government' and 'Authority' are slowly dying. And once enough people recognize reality and the truth, the facade and illusion of the all powerful State will vanish.....Literally overnight. It doesnt take a revolution or overthrowing a Tyrant. It takes enough individuals who stop IMAGINING they have a moral obligation to obey Evil and who are willing to use defensive violence in order to secure their own prosperity. Remember, the ONLY WAY the good guys win (innocent individuals) is if they are better at using violence than the bad guys.(Government)

[SWRichmond]

Nice rant.



Actual churches are EXTREMELY rare at this stage of the game, what we have now are state created corporations (with their primary function being to SERVE THE STATE) masquerading as churches.

It really is startling to see how deeply embedded the mechanisms of control have become.

[midnight rambler]

It really is startling to see how deeply embedded the mechanisms of control have become.

And distressing...that very few recognize the facts of the matter when it's right there IN THEIR FACE.

[BrewTech]

I'm going to rant now.

Why did this woman call the police? Where was dad? Where was the extended family? I like to think that, generations ago when we lived in actual "communities", that this woman would have had more numerous, and more compassionate, resources to call on than she apparently had on that day. THIS IS WHAT FAMILY IS FOR. THIS IS WHY IT MATTERS. And while I am not at all religious, THIS IS WHAT COMMUNITY AND CHURCH ARE FOR.

THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FAMILY, IT IS NOT YOUR COMMUNITY, AND IT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. THE STATE COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN SURVIVE. THE STATE ONLY CARES ABOUT ITSELF. THE STATE IS NOT RELIABLE. THE STATE IS BUILT ON A FOUNDATION OF VIOLENCE; ITS ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE IS ITS LEGAL MONOPOLY ON THE USE OF FORCE.

Police are trained in violence, modern police moreso than ever.

What has caused, or at least certainly facilitated, the destruction of family, community, and church? THE STATE. Their religious functions notwithstanding, churches were the organizing principles of communities. Now, the idea of community has been supplanted by the state.

This may be in the the top 3 best posts ever presented to this forum. Hell, it may even be #1.

[Santa]

Thank God we still have Justin Beiber's twitter page to form communities around.

[Shami-Amourae]

I normally don't care about this kind of thing, but it happened pretty close to home within the Magic Valley, and went viral:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCKO7xi8ZeY&feature=youtu.be

http://magicvalley.com/news/local/officer-shoots-dog-at-boy-s-birthday-party-with-video/article_5e989a44-928a-11e3-b2a5-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.kmvt.com/news/latest/Filer-Police-Officer-Shoots-Local-Mans-Dog-244823291.html



IdahoMomma (http://magicvalley.com/users/profile/IdahoMomma) - 14 hours ago First off, I have a government job that requires me to go to homes and businesses....often there are dogs present. I am NOT allowed to carry a gun, mace, or anything more than my pen. This idiot cop has NO skills in dealing with animals. You could tell from his conversation with the person who was complaining, that they knew each other and were friends. He went to the dog owners house with a chip on his shoulder. Those dogs approached his car with tails wagging, and like an idiot, he gets out of his car screaming and kicking. Yah....that's how you diffuse a dog situation. He had his gun drawn immediately and he was acting threatening....the dogs were barking, but backing up. No snarling teeth, no bristled up hair....and when the cop kicks at the dog and it reacts...he Shoots it!? This guy is an idiot. What about a taser? Better yet -What about staying in your car since you aren't qualified to deal with dogs, and call the homeowner to secure the dogs and let him in? I'm very thankful I don't live in Filer with their half-assed police force and renegade attitude.

http://s30.postimg.org/c509a1gxt/2_12_2014_1_09_11_PM.png

[willie pete]

they do it because they know they can get away with it; dog or human, same difference

[Shami-Amourae]

they do it because they know they can get away with it; dog or human, same difference

I hoped the police were better here.
:(

[mick silver]

http://www.resist.com/CARTOON%20GALLERY/ZOG/gov_image02.jpg

[mick silver]

this cop is a fuck
I normally don't care about this kind of thing, but it happened pretty close to home within the Magic Valley, and went viral:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCKO7xi8ZeY&feature=youtu.be

http://magicvalley.com/news/local/officer-shoots-dog-at-boy-s-birthday-party-with-video/article_5e989a44-928a-11e3-b2a5-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.kmvt.com/news/latest/Filer-Police-Officer-Shoots-Local-Mans-Dog-244823291.html



http://s30.postimg.org/c509a1gxt/2_12_2014_1_09_11_PM.png

[woodman]

I normally don't care about this kind of thing, but it happened pretty close to home within the Magic Valley, and went viral:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCKO7xi8ZeY&feature=youtu.be

http://magicvalley.com/news/local/officer-shoots-dog-at-boy-s-birthday-party-with-video/article_5e989a44-928a-11e3-b2a5-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.kmvt.com/news/latest/Filer-Police-Officer-Shoots-Local-Mans-Dog-244823291.html



http://s30.postimg.org/c509a1gxt/2_12_2014_1_09_11_PM.png

The dog did not look or sound like he was overly aggressive. I'm no super expert, but I would have simply ignored the excited pooch and he would have just kept jumping about. That cop was in no danger and shouldn't have shot the dog. Shoot a police dog that is going to tear your throat out and you will be prosecuted as a murderer.

[midnight rambler]

I haven't yet encountered a dog I cannot make backup without resorting to getting physical with it, it's all about confidence (knowing you can take the dog out) and posturing.

The bottom line is that the thugs with badges couldn't care less about destroying your property, and as was noted - they know they can away with it (getting a paid vacation in the process, double plus good! [show the rubes who's boss along with some time at Disneyland]).

[Shami-Amourae]

Never thought my area would get popular over something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7eQNO64Eg4

[Hitch]

I haven't yet encountered a dog I cannot make backup without resorting to getting physical with it, it's all about confidence (knowing you can take the dog out) and posturing..

The only thing that worked for me was using a pizza box as a shield, on an attacking dog, back when I delivered pizzas in college. A pizza box makes a fine defensive tool.

Of course, I was less than happy with the customer, and I'm sure the customer was less than happy with me, when he opened up the box to see what his pizza looked liked afterwards.