it's over: obama to announce treasury iras tonight

[chad]

first voluntary, later forced (i predict)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-28/obama-unveil-treasury-ira-plans-or-planning-post-monetization-world

[mick silver]

sounds like a take over of the pension fund ... thats right he would not do that ... like he wouldnt take over the health care . US Treasury bonds tax-deferred untill you need to cash out

[Sparky]

Yep, we've talked about this development. But they are starting even slower than I thought, offering these bonds to only a small segment of savers ("first time savers") who don't have other options. This is very clever on their part. The slower they introduce the idea of retirement money going "naturally" into Treasuries, the easier it will be for more and more people to accept the practice with time.

This is an example of why I don't think a financial collapse will be happening any time soon. There is still so much more slack in the system that they can exploit. Look for the long grind to continue.

[Neuro]

sounds like a take over of the pension fund ... thats right he would not do that ... like he wouldnt take over the health care . US Treasury bonds tax-deferred untill you need to cash out
Hahaha. Avoid paying tax by giving your income to the government.

[mick silver]

coming to a country near you , before he done the whole world will be buying t bonds . thats right they already are

[chad]

supreme court with obamacare has already determined that they can make you buy anything under the guise of it being a tax. whoops.

[Shami-Amourae]

Call me ignorant, but has this happened somewhere else in history?

[7th trump]

Hahaha. Avoid paying tax by giving your income to the government.

What do you mean?
What do you think Social Security 42usc 409(a) "wages" are?
You pay taxes on those same "wages" (26usc 3121(a)"wages" as far as the IRS is concerned)
Americans have been earning government "wages" since 1935.
Your yearly social security "wages" have all been tallied up (that W3 the employer sends to the government listing everything you earn (box 3 on the W2; 3121(a) "wages")) and added into the country's net worth year after year after year since 1935.

[chad]

What do you mean?
What do you think Social Security 42usc 409(a) "wages" are?
You pay taxes on those same "wages" (26usc 3121(a)"wages" as far as the IRS is concerned)
Americans have been earning government "wages" since 1935.
Your yearly social security "wages" have all been tallied up (that W3 the employer sends to the government listing everything you earn (box 3 on the W2; 3121(a) "wages")) and added into the country's net worth year after year after year since 1935.

and...........the thread is over.

edit: nevermind. he's arguing with neuro :cool:

[madfranks]

The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams


Who is stupid enough to believe this? Seriously?

[Publico]

"If you like your IRA, the government is going to take it."

[Twisted Titan]

If you like your healthcare coverage ( 401k plan).....you will be able to keep your health care coverage (401 K plan).

[7th trump]

and...........the thread is over.

edit: nevermind. he's arguing with neuro :cool:

Who's arguing Chad?
What I presented is fact!
All 42usc 409 "wages" through out the nation are reported to the Social Security Administration by the employer via a transmittal W3 form.
Think of the significants of that for just a minute!!
You are property of the US government because of Social Security (see 5usc 522a(13) "federal personnel") and all your earnings are reported as 42usc 409 "wages" and tallied up and added into the nations yearly net wealth.....you and anyone else who continues to participate in SS are not private at all.
You, through Social Security, are incorporated into the US government....if China decides to cash in on its Tbills.....the government can use you and your wealth as payment!
You are the aphid and the government is the ant....ants enslave aphids who harvest nectar and the ant extracts the nectar from the aphids.

[chad]

Who's arguing Chad?
What I presented is fact!
All 42usc 409 "wages" through out the nation are reported to the Social Security Administration by the employer via a transmittal W3 form.
Think of the significants of that for just a minute!!
You are property of the US government because of Social Security (see 5usc 522a(13) "federal personnel") and all your earnings are reported as 42usc 409 "wages" and tallied up and added into the nations yearly net wealth.....you and anyone else who continues to participate in SS are not private at all.
You, through Social Security, are incorporated into the US government....if China decides to cash in on its Tbills.....the government can use you and your wealth as payment!
You are the aphid and the government is the ant....ants enslave aphids who harvest nectar and the ant extracts the nectar from the aphids.

no one is arguing i guess, we're all just reading your usual spam. maybe you could move on to some other threads and spam them, there's one about living at home that EE_ started, and he even used the word "money" in the first sentence. that one would be perfect for you.

[7th trump]

no one is arguing i guess, we're all just reading your usual spam. maybe you could move on to some other threads and spam them, there's one about living at home that EE_ started, and he even used the word "money" in the first sentence. that one would be perfect for you.
Its not spam...its directly related to the topic....one that hits the nail directly on the head.

[chad]

this thread is about treasury bonds & iras. it has nothing to do with income reported to the government because of social security participation. i could learn to like you, but why do you have to constantly make every thread about social security participation and taxes? we get it. everyone here gets it. you have posted it no less than 1,000 times in 1,000 different threads that don't have anything to do with it. just because someone uses the word "income" or whatever term of the day it is for you, it doesn't mean we need you to post your codes and definitions of wages again and start a big fight when palani reads the thread. we all get it, you have been posting about it for years. could you please just act like a normal person and not someone with aspergers? like i said, i could learn to like you, but it does become spam at a certain point.

[ximmy]

this thread is about treasury bonds & iras. it has nothing to do with income reported to the government because of social security participation. i could learn to like you, but why do you have to constantly make every thread about social security participation and taxes? we get it. everyone here gets it. you have posted it no less than 1,000 times in 1,000 different threads that don't have anything to do with it. just because someone uses the word "income" or whatever term of the day it is for you, it doesn't mean we need you to post your codes and definitions of wages again and start a big fight when palani reads the thread. we all get it, you have been posting about it for years. could you please just act like a normal person and not someone with aspergers? like i said, i could learn to like you, but it does become spam at a certain point.

Normal... 7th trump eats pease porridge in the pot nine days old...

[vacuum]

If the public is buying public debt, then, theoretically, don't they cancel each other out? It's like paying off your car loan...both the money and the loan extinguish each other from the system.

[Libertytree]

Solution.

Start another sub forum, with 3 parts to it.

7th Trumps road to freedom.

Palanis road to freedom.

And 3rdly, the 7th Trump vs Palani debate thread. Where the road to freedom has no crossroads.

[Hillbilly]

Well fuck a duck literally...Donald Duck kills another thread.

[Cebu_4_2]

Solution.

Start another sub forum, with 3 parts to it.

7th Trumps road to freedom.

Palanis road to freedom.

And 3rdly, the 7th Trump vs Palani debate thread. Where the road to freedom has no crossroads.

LOL, I enjoy their bickering but not when it trashes so many threads. I would subscribe to #3.

[Shami-Amourae]

Who is stupid enough to believe this? Seriously?

Most Americans.

[osoab]

"If you like your IRA, the government is going to take it."

Where the heck you been? We got cooties or something?

[7th trump]

LOL, I enjoy their bickering but not when it trashes so many threads. I would subscribe to #3.

palani's road to freedom goes nowhere. He has the right idea, and its nice to think of yourself not being a serf, but it wont go anywhere you need it to go. Simple saying you are not a serf when you participate in government benefit programs that identifies the participant as a serf doesn't work well in court. Especially a serf program that is funded by the public.

[osoab]

palani's road to freedom goes nowhere. He has the right idea, and its nice to think of yourself not being a surf, but it wont go anywhere you need it to go. Simple saying you are not a surf when you participate in government benefit programs that identifies the participant as a surf doesn't work well in court. Especially a surf program that is funded by the public.

I'm not a serf.

[Publico]

Where the heck you been? We got cooties or something?

My old xp computer crashed. Got a new windows 8 computer, tried that for a week or two, then got a windows 7 computer, using that for a couple of months. Forget my password and email address used here so I couldn't log on. Ebayed an exact model of my old xp machine, transferred the files to new old xp machine with cookies, passwords, and such. So here I am.

[Libertytree]

My old xp computer crashed. Got a new windows 8 computer, tried that for a week or two, then got a windows 7 computer, using that for a couple of months. Forget my password and email address used here so I couldn't log on. Ebayed an exact model of my old xp machine, transferred the files to new old xp machine with cookies, passwords, and such. So here I am.

Welcome back, sorry to hear you had so many problems.

[jbeck57143]

Solution.

Start another sub forum, with 3 parts to it.

7th Trumps road to freedom.

Palanis road to freedom.

And 3rdly, the 7th Trump vs Palani debate thread. Where the road to freedom has no crossroads.

Maybe something like that could be done here-they could each start their own thread (or maybe they can be put in General Discussion Stickies so they don't get buried). They can each include a brief discussion of why they believe the other is wrong, but neither one should post in the other's thread, nor should there be any reference to anything the other person writes in their respective thread. (In other words-they shouldn't use these threads to debate or attack each other; there are other threads where that is happening already). Palani's thread would focus on what he believes (including evidence for those beliefs-court cases, etc), and also possible solutions. 7th Trump's thread would focus on what he believes (including evidence for those beliefs-court cases, etc), and also possible solutions.

[7th trump]

Maybe something like that could be done here-they could each start their own thread (or maybe they can be put in General Discussion Stickies so they don't get buried). They can each include a brief discussion of why they believe the other is wrong, but neither one should post in the other's thread, nor should there be any reference to anything the other person writes in their respective thread. (In other words-they shouldn't use these threads to debate or attack each other; there are other threads where that is happening already). Palani's thread would focus on what he believes (including evidence for those beliefs-court cases, etc), and also possible solutions. 7th Trump's thread would focus on what he believes (including evidence for those beliefs-court cases, etc), and also possible solutions.

Recognize the name jbeck......a ctc'er.

[jbeck57143]

I am on that forum, but I'm also interested in what other people think, and any solutions they may have that have worked (or that might work).

[7th trump]

I am on that forum, but I'm also interested in what other people think, and any solutions they may have that have worked (or that might work).
I'll pm you my email address

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

They've named it MyRA. You've got to be kidding me. And he says it is no risk with a decent return. NO RISK!

[Neuro]

Well fuck a duck literally...Donald Duck kills another thread.
But really I didn't intend to... If I had known... ;)

Anyway, I see what people are saying about spam, and it does have the power of disrupting discussions, without the spammer really having any bad intentions towards its victims. Right now we have 2 posters Magnes and Hypertiger who are banned 30 days each for spamming the forum... Maybe change the posting rights of spammers, so that they are only allowed to post in a SPAM subforum, and anyone who is willing to engage the spammer has to go there...

I don't know, what say you? Good idea?

[Hitch]

Maybe change the posting rights of spammers, so that they are only allowed to post in a SPAM subforum, and anyone who is willing to engage the spammer has to go there...

I don't know, what say you? Good idea?

I don't know if that's a good idea. One of the great things about this forum, little corner of the internet, is the free speech. Changing posting rights of 'spammers', yes some spamming goes on, but some guys post non spamming informational threads.

I think posters should be banned when they break the forum rules. That means when they actually spam threads, or attack others, etc. At that time, when they break the rules.

Profiling them beforehand is a bit .gov for my liking, just my opinion. Just doesn't sit right. Almost like guilty before the crime. I don't know how to express that, but just doesn't seem right, imo.

[Libertytree]

The way I see it is that Magnes has an agenda and he spams it anywhere he gets a chance, hell, for that matter it's spammed anytime he posts because of the crap in his sig. HT spams just by stating the same thing over and over and over again. Both are tiresome and screw threads up where ever they decide to take a shit.

7th and Palani are different though IMHO, I don't really see intentional spam or any agendas but the arguments between the two in multiple threads has a spam like, derailing effect none the less. I don't think anyone minds if they duke it out and debate their POV's but not to the extent that has been going on. Truthfully, between the two of them the "road to freedom" is just a muddied up crick that no one could ever begin to navigate. Neither one will speak in clear step by step procedures that will lead you to a freer destination.

[Cebu_4_2]

Anyway, I see what people are saying about spam, and it does have the power of disrupting discussions, without the spammer really having any bad intentions towards its victims. Right now we have 2 posters Magnes and Hypertiger who are banned 30 days each for spamming the forum... Maybe change the posting rights of spammers, so that they are only allowed to post in a SPAM subforum, and anyone who is willing to engage the spammer has to go there...

I don't know, what say you? Good idea?

I think it is worth a try, members only access. Let them post what they want, anything goes and members can post there all they want. As long as it isn't a public sub. I think Magnes tries to get his info out as much and fast as possible before the inevitable ban, same with Hyper. Both of them make some threads pretty ugly fast. If they can adhere to the sub forums they should be able to post whatever they want, relaxing some of the rules only in those subs. Sort of like thunderdome, heck let them pick the name of their very owh sub? Hyper... Idonno if it would work very long but worth a shot. Both have a lot of good information and it would be a sad day if both got permabanned. Once permabanned you can delete the subs or leave them, can put that up to a vote. Just shooting out some ideas.

LT is right about those other two, 7th and Palini... Separate thread ONLY at least. I don't have many ideas on that right now.

[Hitch]

I think you guys are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

If Magnes breaks the forum rules, ban him. If I break the forum rules, ban me. If anyone breaks the forum rules give them a few days to cool off.

This is why we have forum rules and why we have moderators.

Subforums for certain posters that folks want to cast away, it's too political. This forum shouldn't be a popularity contest.

Just enforce the forum rules, imo, keep it simple. This is just my opinion.

[Neuro]

I guess one could make the Spam subforum voluntary. But we lower the tolerance for spam outside the subforum. As for Magnes signature being spam, I would argue that all signatures are spam... Get rid of them altogether?

[ShortJohnSilver]

I am proud but sad about this.

I called it, years ago, saying they would have an investment product that the govt would guarantee, but they would just print up the difference. Pretty much what I described is what they are doing. So I am proud about that.

But I am sad they are pulling this crap on people.

[Hitch]

Please don't create a spam subforum.

Don't let them turn this forum into a joke. There's too many good folks here to sink to that level.

[Cebu_4_2]

I am proud but sad about this.

I called it, years ago, saying they would have an investment product that the govt would guarantee, but they would just print up the difference. Pretty much what I described is what they are doing. So I am proud about that.

But I am sad they are pulling this crap on people.

See? Spamming threads, it's everywhere.

Wait a minute! I think post #33 is trying to derail this thread... now let me see...

[Cebu_4_2]

Please don't create a spam subforum.

Don't let them turn this forum into a joke. There's too many good folks here to sink to that level.

You sound like my mom. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a members only spam forum.

[Hitch]

You sound like my mom. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a members only spam forum.

What exactly does a members only spam forum accomplish? How does it better the forum?

[Cebu_4_2]

What exactly does a members only spam forum accomplish? How does it better the forum?

It simply doesn't distract from the main forum threads, which is where we have some problems.

On a forum I mod we have a daily joke thread, a daily off topic thread, and a daily pure BS thread. Sometimes they fall away until someone resurrects it or creates a new one. We don't have many off topic sub forums. Perhaps this could be an idea here too.

I mod a car forum so politics and other common shit here would have sub forums there. Sometimes we will have a hot topic thread in regards to big political issues or banks failing etc.

If a regular poster puts say a political issue on a 'heater core' thread I will move it to the daily politics thread or create one and any other political posts MUST go into that thread. Offenders get 1 private message, then 1 public message that they will be banned and if then they repeat? Poof!

That exact scenario would not work here but have to be customized for this particular forum.

Comprehendo Pete?

[7th trump]

I talked with the forum owner about opening a thread on Social Security about a year ago and asked if there was a way I could only post so the thread wouldn't get all chopped up with other posters chiming in. I don't mind chiming in but it takes away what needs to be said
I wanted to keep adding post to expound on Social Security from beginning to end so the readers could read it just like a book. Was even going to have chapters in the thread so it wouldnt get all confusing, but the forum owner said that wasn't possible unless I wrote it out and posted pieces at a time.
I didn't think it was going to work that well as the thread gets pushed back further and further in between postings.
What kind of thread options do I have with Vbullet?

[Neuro]

I talked with the forum owner about opening a thread on Social Security about a year ago and asked if there was a way I could only post so the thread wouldn't get all chopped up with other posters chiming in. I don't mind chiming in but it takes away what needs to be said
I wanted to keep adding post to expound on Social Security from beginning to end so the readers could read it just like a book. Was even going to have chapters in the thread so it wouldnt get all confusing, but the forum owner said that wasn't possible unless I wrote it out and posted pieces at a time.
I didn't think it was going to work that well as the thread gets pushed back further and further in between postings.
What kind of thread options do I have with Vbullet?
An idea would be if you write it like a book in a word document, then you could start a new thread every time you have added something, get comments, make changes if you like, add new material and post in a new thread. Another option would be to lock the thread as soon as you made the post, and re-open it as you want to post more... Third option, start a blog...

[sirgonzo420]

I talked with the forum owner about opening a thread on Social Security about a year ago and asked if there was a way I could only post so the thread wouldn't get all chopped up with other posters chiming in. I don't mind chiming in but it takes away what needs to be said
I wanted to keep adding post to expound on Social Security from beginning to end so the readers could read it just like a book. Was even going to have chapters in the thread so it wouldnt get all confusing, but the forum owner said that wasn't possible unless I wrote it out and posted pieces at a time.
I didn't think it was going to work that well as the thread gets pushed back further and further in between postings.
What kind of thread options do I have with Vbullet?

You could post here: http://gold-silver.us/forum/forumdisplay.php?38-Constitution-and-Law

The Constitution and Law subforum does not have many new posts on a regular basis, so if you wanted to start threads there, they would stay at the top over the weeks that you added to them.

If you bothered to do as you are suggesting, I would read it.

[Cebu_4_2]

An idea would be if you write it like a book in a word document, then you could start a new thread every time you have added something, get comments, make changes if you like, add new material and post in a new thread. Another option would be to lock the thread as soon as you made the post, and re-open it as you want to post more... Third option, start a blog...

I agree with this. Post it in the main forum and lock the thread between postings. As you add to it it would bring it back up, only problem is it will fall into the abyss until you bumped it. Gonzo's idea might be better for long term though. Perhaps you add to a thread in the main forum until it is semi complete and then asked a mod to move it to the Constitution forum. By this time you will have a following that has been watching it on the main forum and read it at the latter. It will not get as many views as in the main forum though. You don't have many options on Vbull besides a sticky on the main forum, which would be nice but it isn't sticky worth as much as say a magness sticky, or a pilini sticky, or a hyper sticky or a 7th sticky or my own sticky... see where that leads?

[palani]

You people complain of thread diversions and de-rails and then you de-rail your own threads with posts on how to keep threads from being de-railed?

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

I am proud but sad about this.

I called it, years ago, saying they would have an investment product that the govt would guarantee, but they would just print up the difference. Pretty much what I described is what they are doing. So I am proud about that.

But I am sad they are pulling this crap on people.

Bit by bit they'll start forcing people out of 401k plans and into MyRA plans. Retirement welfare.

[Cebu_4_2]

You people complain of thread diversions and de-rails and then you de-rail your own threads with posts on how to keep threads from being de-railed?

Common core.

[Cebu_4_2]

Bit by bit they'll start forcing people out of 401k plans and into MyRA plans. Retirement welfare.

It's just absolutely fukt no matter how you try to make sense of it.

[Santa]

The forum's structure isn't broken. There are more than enough sub forums. My advice is to follow the K.I.S.S. rule. (Keep It Simple, Stupid.)

[mick silver]

but it free and he would not lie to us all

[Neuro]

The forum's structure isn't broken. There are more than enough sub forums. My advice is to follow the K.I.S.S. rule. (Keep It Simple, Stupid.)
I tend to agree with that actually. The other option is of course if the moderators become harsher on spamming. I don't think I would ever perm-ban a non-commercial spammer, but maybe it is possible to change the behavior of those that tend to fill up threads with endless discussions going nowhere...

[sirgonzo420]

You people complain of thread diversions and de-rails and then you de-rail your own threads with posts on how to keep threads from being de-railed?

Well we were, until you came in here and derailed us.

;D

[palani]

Well we were, until you came in here and derailed us.

;D

Yep. That seems to be my talent.

[StreetsOfGold]

transferred the files to new old xp machine with cookies, passwords, and such. So here I am.

Now you can change your password and rebuild your new computer. Oh wait....don't do that

[Santa]

I tend to agree with that actually. The other option is of course if the moderators become harsher on spamming. I don't think I would ever perm-ban a non-commercial spammer, but maybe it is possible to change the behavior of those that tend to fill up threads with endless discussions going nowhere...

I think THUNDER DOME is under utilized.
Why not just use what's already available and send spam or repeat personal attack posts to THUNDER DOME. Let em duke it out for 24 hrs. Then POOF! GONE! Isn't that what THUNDER DOME was created for?
It allows posters to vent. Make their points, however trivial...and helps prevent pollution of informative threads. It also allows moderators a kinder, gentler method of moderation than outright bans.

Plus, it's fun.

[Hillbilly]

But really I didn't intend to... If I had known... ;)

Anyway, I see what people are saying about spam, and it does have the power of disrupting discussions, without the spammer really having any bad intentions towards its victims. Right now we have 2 posters Magnes and Hypertiger who are banned 30 days each for spamming the forum... Maybe change the posting rights of spammers, so that they are only allowed to post in a SPAM subforum, and anyone who is willing to engage the spammer has to go there...

I don't know, what say you? Good idea?

Not your man, the "other" duck that is always quacking about the same thing...he must be gold ducks brother...bother are massive blowhard repeaters.

[Sparky]

You people complain of thread diversions and de-rails and then you de-rail your own threads with posts on how to keep threads from being de-railed?

Palani is correct here. You all have the power to stop a thread from being de-railed by simply not responding to the de-railing post. I hesitate to make this post for that exact reason, but I'm just trying to help. Those of you who are complaining about thread's being de-railed are your own worst enemies. You take the bait every time. You really don't have a reason to complain. Your follow-up criticism creates 10 times more thread clutter than the original offending post. Look in the mirror.

[osoab]

MyRA is a whore!

[Libertytree]

Palani is correct here. You all have the power to stop a thread from being de-railed by simply not responding to the de-railing post. I hesitate to make this post for that exact reason, but I'm just trying to help. Those of you who are complaining about thread's being de-railed are your own worst enemies. You take the bait every time. You really don't have a reason to complain. Your follow-up criticism creates 10 times more thread clutter than the original offending post. Look in the mirror.

Sparky, in theory I agree and appreciate that POV but let's look at it in another way.

There's 7 people in a group all bantering amongst themselves, everything is cool, then all of a sudden 2 people were raising their voices and then ultimately to a shouting match. What are the other 5 people supposed to do? The 1st thing is to say something, like STFU! quiet down please, chill or take it away from us. That's what would happen in real life or some variation of it.

How is this any different? And as far as Palani being correct I again disagree, because Palani is one of the two that reply back and forth with each other in various other threads with their arguments and insults. He's saying ignore it when he's 50% of this problem to begin with and never ignores it!

[old steel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJq0G4yr_K4